Do you believe God participates in our daily lives?

[Moxie]

I know people who pray about everything from a good parking spot to a cure for cancer. If you found a spot, God gave it to you. If not, God wanted you to get fresh air.

 

I'm not so sure. It seems to me (no scientific study, I realize) that it really could just be luck. Atheists and Christians have the same cancer rates and I've never heard an athiest complain that they never get the good spots.

 

I'm not sure what I believe anymore.

[Amy in NH]

No, I don't think there's a guy somewhere who listens to and cares what each and every person on the planet is thinking and doing at every moment of the day.  IMO, there is no personal God.

[Liz CA]

I think God is available to us when we call on Him. As you have observed "the rain falls on the just and the unjust," when you walk from a parking spot farther away. :laugh:

Does God provide every time what we ask? No, but He provides what we need and He provides the grace to get through the "rain."

[Ali in OR]

You might be confusing God with fairy godmother. I don't think He's necessarily handing out parking spots and cancer cures to those He favors, but I do believe He'll be there to walk you through the tough times. That fits my definition of "God participates in our daily lives". When I pray Philippians 4:6-7 (Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts  and your minds in Christ Jesus), I am not promised a fix for my troubles (eg my daughter still has seizures). But I am promised God's peace, and I've seen that prayer answered over and over again.

 

[jewellsmommy]

Yes, I believe that God participates in my daily life. I don't define "participating in my daily life" as giving me everything I ask for or making my day more fun/easier/better etc. God may direct me to a particular parking space if by being in it brings on some greater significant purpose somehow, but not because I just didn't want to walk too far and I asked to be closer to the door. If I ask God to use me each day, then He will orchestrate my day accordingly as there are needs to be met.

[milovany]

Absolutely I believe He's personally involved in our lives.  But I don't think it's so much about parking spots, being healed of cancer, or even homeschooling successfully (gasp!).  I think it's about our inner selves being changed to be more like Christ (less anger, less fear, more tenderness, more trust, less judgment of others, etc.).  He's intensively active leading us along this path if we ask and allow Him to be. 

[ElaineJ]

Absolutely I believe He's personally involved in our lives.  But I don't think it's so much about parking spots, being healed of cancer, or even homeschooling successfully (gasp!).  I think it's about our inner selves being changed to be more like Christ (less anger, less fear, more tenderness, more trust, less judgment of others, etc.).  He's intensively active leading us along this path if we ask and allow Him to be. 

 

This is what I believe as well. I think our priorities are often very different; I'm focused on that parking spot while God is working out a place of selfishness in my heart. A lot of our faith journey is learning to hold His hand in the midst of whatever circumstances we are experiencing moment by moment.

Elaine

 

[albeto.]

No. Here is a good introduction to the argument that a god participating in our lives is not only an unfounded belief, dependent upon logical fallacies and cognitive dissonance, but goes against what we actually see, feel, know, and experience. 

 

[albeto.]

Absolutely I believe He's personally involved in our lives.  But I don't think it's so much about parking spots, being healed of cancer, or even homeschooling successfully (gasp!).  I think it's about our inner selves being changed to be more like Christ (less anger, less fear, more tenderness, more trust, less judgment of others, etc.).  He's intensively active leading us along this path if we ask and allow Him to be. 

 

So how would one explain people who achieve this goal without being Christian? Without inviting Christ in t their lives, without even knowing the story of Jesus, how can people do this with approximately the same rate of success? 

[albeto.]

Yes, absolutely He answers. But sometimes the answer is no or not now.

In what way is this different from not being involved?

[MerryAtHope]

Absolutely I believe He's personally involved in our lives.  But I don't think it's so much about parking spots, being healed of cancer, or even homeschooling successfully (gasp!).  I think it's about our inner selves being changed to be more like Christ (less anger, less fear, more tenderness, more trust, less judgment of others, etc.).  He's intensively active leading us along this path if we ask and allow Him to be. 

 

 

This is what I believe as well. I think our priorities are often very different; I'm focused on that parking spot while God is working out a place of selfishness in my heart. A lot of our faith journey is learning to hold His hand in the midst of whatever circumstances we are experiencing moment by moment.

Elaine

 

 

Yes. I think some descriptions of prayer reduce God to little more than a vending machine (or as someone said, a fairy godmother). I absolutely believe God is active in my every day life, but I don't believe I am the center of God's universe. There are several places in the Bible (such as Ephesians 5:1) where God calls believers dearly loved children, and I am in awe of how he cherishes us and the lengths he has gone to, to save us and have a close, intimate relationship with us. When I look to examples of the things Jesus prayed about (such as in John 17), or Paul or other NT Christians throughout the NT...while we are told to pray about everything, the vast majority of those prayers did not focus on things like parking spots. I think to reduce prayer and our relationship with God to this kind of focus really misses out on the true riches that God holds out to us.

 

Nearly 1 in 2 Americans have some kind of chronic illness, and 19 million are disabled by one. That God might want to teach us something in the midst of illness, rather than offering all miraculous healing, seems apparent. I am humbled and grateful, year by year, as God walks with my family, teaches us, grows us, helps us to know him better, through my husband's disability. If I become more kind, gracious, patient, and loving in the process...I consider that a great mercy that God has bestowed on me. His word and his presence fills me and sustains me, carries me through dark times, encourages, and inspires me. I share many of the scriptures that have blessed me in my book, Invisible Illness, Visible God.

 

Yes, he is very active in my daily life. I try to pray as Jesus did...not my will, but yours be done. If I think I really need something, and God doesn't provide it...then I ask for the patience and perseverance to trust him through that time. God is sovereign and trustworthy.

 

Parking spaces really aren't on my radar of top prayer concerns though, unless my husband is in the car. Then all kinds of issues come into play! 

 

Merry :-)

[mumto2]

Yes

[Camelfeet]

No, and like someone else said, I didn't when I believed in a higher power.  I baffles me how someone could thank god for finding their car keys or having a short line in the drive through while there are millions of people in this world praying for basics - shelter, food, health, safety - and not getting it.  

[Shamzanne]

So how would one explain people who achieve this goal without being Christian? Without inviting Christ in t their lives, without even knowing the story of Jesus, how can people do this with approximately the same rate of success?

I believe that you don't need to be a Christian or invite Christ into your life to be affected by his grace and his gifts. I believe we are ALL created in the image of God and have his truth and goodness somehow, whether we realize or acknowledge it or not. I think the purpose of prayer isn't only communication with God, but is also meditative.

 

(I'm not saying what I mean very well, darnit. It is late.)

[Heather in Neverland]

Matthew 6:9-13

 

9 Pray then like this:

“Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name.

10 Your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread,

12 and forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from evil."

 

The bible teaches us to pray and ask God to intervene in our daily lives. We are to want HIS will to be done, not our own. We ask for HIS daily provision in our lives. We are to ask forgiveness of sin and for his help avoiding temptation.

 

So yes, I believe that God is involved in our daily lives.

[creekland]

I do believe God is part of the daily lives of those who choose Him, but as others have said, that's not in a "Vending Machine" sort of way at all.  I believe this life is a character building exercise.

 

Thinking through the major and semi-major "players" of the Bible, I can't recall a single one who didn't have significant issues they had to work through.  All worked through issues, and in the process, developed their character.

 

Why can this happen without God?  We're all human and are equal in this life with rain and sun hitting us all equally.  If it were any other way, God would be a vending machine.  That's not what spiritual life is all about.  It's not even close.  One can build character and have a non-existent spiritual life.  I doubt one can have a true spiritual life and not develop better character.

 

I'm a HUGE disbeliever in the prosperity gospel in any form.  Personal peace?  Yes.  Better character?  Hopefully.  Stuff?  That depends upon whether you get the sun or the rain and even that can differ in the various seasons of our life.  Being thankful for all things (good) is part of good character - unless, of course, one believes their kids should never say "Thank You" to someone when something nice happens.

[Pawz4me]

If I'm being completely honest -- No.  I don't believe God, as most people here are referring to Him, participates in our daily lives.  It's certainly a nice comforting thought, though, and that makes it hard to give up.

[PrincessMommy]

You might be confusing God with fairy godmother. I don't think He's necessarily handing out parking spots and cancer cures to those He favors, but I do believe He'll be there to walk you through the tough times. That fits my definition of "God participates in our daily lives". When I pray Philippians 4:6-7 (Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts  and your minds in Christ Jesus), I am not promised a fix for my troubles (eg my daughter still has seizures). But I am promised God's peace, and I've seen that prayer answered over and over again.

 

I agree..

[Laurie4b]

In what way is this different from not being involved?

 

When I say "No" or "Wait" to my child, am I not involved? I experience it as more involved usually, because of the response I get in return!

[milovany]

.

[marbel]

Yes.  There are times I have wavered in this, but overall, yes. And it's about far more than parking spots and even cures. 

 

There is such a thing as "common grace" which everyone, believer and non-believer, enjoys.   There is also evil which God allows to touch the lives of believers and non-believers alike.   We await a day when that evil will exist no more.  If it seems purposeless to us - we don't know the mind of God. We don't know how God may be upholding those whom evil is touching.   Some people come out of tragedies with their faith stronger and some lose their faith altogether. 

 

Many times over the last few months I have stood in my shower (so  my kids don't hear me) crying out to God for help with various difficult issues I am dealing with.  I have prayed my way through anxiety attacks and received relief quicker and better than my xanax pills have ever given me.  I have dealt with difficult things that I thought I could never do. 

 

I was once prompted to call an old, long-lost friend and found that my call was perfectly-timed:  she had just returned from her brother's funeral and was sitting alone and lonely in her house.   What made me decide to call her right then?   

 

I've also received a lot of "no" or "wait" answers.  I've come - through many experiences - to believe those are designed to teach me to rely on God more and not worry.   I am a slow learner though - I still worry.

 

 

[Joanne]

So how would one explain people who achieve this goal without being Christian? Without inviting Christ in t their lives, without even knowing the story of Jesus, how can people do this with approximately the same rate of success? 

 

 

FYI, the OP didn't say Jesus Christ. ;)

[Joanne]

(answering the actual question in the subject line without the Judeo-Christian over-assumption)

 

I guess I still have to say "yes". But that's a seriously qualified "yes" based on my understanding of God. My understanding of God is in transition. Far, far away from the God of organized religions (Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu gods or Buddha reverence). At this point, I *think* it's more than a higher self or change in brain activity (but I'm not totally convinced).

Here is what I *know*. I know I am one of the most stubborn, strong willed, diligent people I know and that I've been that way my entire life. Through focus and sheer work, I accomplished quite a bit as a teen and young adult. While partying every single day. I know that I could not fix my alcoholism. I tried every single way I could think of, and I tried them with passion, commitment and gusto.

 

On May 15, 1991, I began to be an active member of AA and have been happily sober ever since. Now, I've come to believe/embrace that my continued contented sobriety is a function of science. Alcoholism is a disease of the brain, and it takes the consistent use of brain changers to treat it. AA is a very efficient way to present many major brain changers, including the experience of spirituality.

 

And I'm just New Age enough to believe in "everything is energy" and I do believe that the energy carries positive/negative vibrations. In that form, prayer changes things. Parking spots? Probably not. Curing disease? No, because then I'd have to blame God for those not cured and that is a theological nightmare.

 

But do I think that the advice in the Big Book of AA to "pause when agitated or doubtful" and to search for an intuitive thought "works"? Yes. It may well "only" allow for being responsive rather than reactive, but if there IS a daily engaged Higher Power, that power would show up in the space between event and seeking an informed answer.

 

[livetoread]

I used to think that God was at least involved with helping people change for the better if they asked. Then I worked as a therapist, and I just started paying close attention to how people live and act. I observed that people who believe in God and ask sincerely for help in knowing God's will and doing it, act no better or worse than people who don't. They go through the same processes when trying to change their behavior, and neither has any advantage. They are no more or less compassionate, more or less wise, or more or less able to know what the right thing to do is.

 

Those tied into a healthy church community do seem to have additional support for healthy behaviors, but this is also true of any healthy support community.

 

I finally decided that saying God helps people become better when they ask isn't supported by reality. Saying God helps people become better whether they ask or not is a possibility, but then it violates the free will concept that most believers are very fond of to help explain bad things.

 

So I concluded that either the strict Calvinists are right and there is a God, but one who does whatever he pleases to us pawns, or there probably isn't a personal God involved in human life, though very comforting to think so. Since I have no use for a Calvinist God (clearly not being one of the chosen!), I settled on the latter.

[NicAnn]

Yes, but not in the "help me get a parking spot" kind of way. I have no doubt He *could* do that, just that He doesn't. I do believe that He gives us His Spirit, his force, to help us. I also believe that praying to God is a way to glorify Him and to give thanks, an to talk to Him. So I may silently pray for a good parking spot, I'm doing this more to have a conversation with Him...not asking for a spot.

 

That wasn't very clear, sorry!

[Ipsey]

I don't. The "yes/no/wait" answers to prayer was one of the areas where I first began to reevaluate my previously very devout faith.

 

It's not so much that the "answers" of "no" or "wait" are some sort of evidence that there is no God, rather I realized that these three "answers" were unidentifiable from a God not existing/not existing at all. 

 

I would be able to identify  "yes" "no" or "wait" whether I was praying to a god, wishing on a star, or just crossing my fingers. (Or praying to a milk jug.)

 

After I had already lost faith, I found this video and it explained my point exactly, and I was thrilled I wasn't just some loony who was the only person to ever have this critique. :)  

 

 

 

[Moxie]

Thanks for the discussion, ladies.

 

Regarding God answering all prayers but sometimes the answer is no (that is what my Mom always taught us). I have 2 sisters who have suffered with premature ruptured membranes around the 22 week point. Both of them knew that their babies would die. One sister prayed for a miracle--that she would somehow manage to not go into labor and carry the baby until the doctors would intervene. She went into labor and her child passed away. So, was God answering her no? Sorry, your baby can't survive?

 

The other sister is not religious. As soon as her water broke, she knew what was up. Her only prayer was that her child not suffer. He passed away in utero, seemingly with out pain. So, her prayer was answered??

 

Still working out my thoughts. Thanks, ladies!

[milovany]

I'm so sorry for the losses your sisters have suffered. 

[Bensmom]

Okay here is my slightly cheesy response:

 

In the Santa Clause 2 movie there is a scene where it is said, "Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing." I think the same can often be said of God (a higher power). For me, it is an issue of faith. If you have to have some sort of scientific evidence before you know God is present/available, you may be sorely disappointed. That doesn't mean He is not there all along; it just means that "believing is seeing." Faith.

 

" Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1

 

I also agree with Milovany that God's presence in our lives is more about changing our hearts (more loving, forgiving, peaceful etc.) than granting wishes. He doesn't promise to make life easy. He promises to walk with us through the joys and difficulties of life.

[livetoread]

Yes, Ipsey, thinking along those lines was big for me too. The problem with benevolent theism is that the world just doesn't operate accordingly. It operates in a manner indistinguishable from a world without a loving, powerful deity.

 

Maybe there is an amoral, curious deity that is kind of experimenting, intervening here and here unpredictably, just to see what happens. Maybe there is a deistic, hands off deity. Maybe there is nothing. But I think the fact that any deity operating in our world is indistinguishable from no deity operating in our world is fatal to theistic claims of a loving, powerful, intervening deity.

[Moxie]

I don't. The "yes/no/wait" answers to prayer was one of the areas where I first began to reevaluate my previously very devout faith.

 

It's not so much that the "answers" of "no" or "wait" are some sort of evidence that there is no God, rather I realized that these three "answers" were unidentifiable from a God not existing/not existing at all. 

 

I would be able to identify  "yes" "no" or "wait" whether I was praying to a god, wishing on a star, or just crossing my fingers. (Or praying to a milk jug.)

 

After I had already lost faith, I found this video and it explained my point exactly, and I was thrilled I wasn't just some loony who was the only person to ever have this critique. :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI&feature=related

This is the point I was trying to illustrate with my parking spot example.

 

Many of you have said that God is not a vending machine or a fairy godmother. But, how often are we told to pray about these kinds of things? How often do you hear Christians praying for these material things? Often, it seems to me.

 

So, if God has no intention of helping us with parking or selling a house (my current prayer) are we praying wrong??

[Joanne]

This is the point I was trying to illustrate with my parking spot example.

 

Many of you have said that God is not a vending machine or a fairy godmother. But, how often are we told to pray about these kinds of things? How often do you hear Christians praying for these material things? Often, it seems to me.

 

So, if God has no intention of helping us with parking or selling a house (my current prayer) are we praying wrong??

 

 

I was "in charge" of a prayer chain for some time when I was a Christian.

 

Eventually, it became part of my deconversion story.

[Bensmom]

This is the point I was trying to illustrate with my parking spot example.

 

Many of you have said that God is not a vending machine or a fairy godmother. But, how often are we told to pray about these kinds of things? How often do you hear Christians praying for these material things? Often, it seems to me.

 

So, if God has no intention of helping us with parking or selling a house (my current prayer) are we praying wrong??

 

Okay. I will totally admit to praying about all kinds of silly stuff. I often poor out my frustrations large and small...and downright silly. But, that is not really how Christ taught us to pray. The Lord's Prayer praises God, asks His will to be done, and talks about forgiveness. I also love the Serenity Prayer as an example for prayer.....prayer for strength in changing what we need to change and acceptance for what we cannot change.

 

Will I still poor out all my relatively insignificant frustrations to God in prayer? Yep. (Better to vent to God than my husband sometimes!) But prayer is meant to be so much more. Thanks for reminding me!

[NicAnn]

Yes we are called to pray without ceasing. I don't believe that means to ask for things. Prayer is much more involved than that. It is a place to draw close to God and have a relationship with Him. When I was younger I even asked how His day was in my prayers!

[Haiku]

I am part of an adoption advocacy group, and it makes me absolutely insane when people crow about "God is good!" and "It's all part of God's plan!" when a child is adopted, but they never seem to praise God for the kids who are left rotting in neglectful and abusive institutions for years on end. It makes me feel like "You can't have it both ways, people," and contributes to my belief that there is no god intervening in our lives.

[albeto.]

I believe that you don't need to be a Christian or invite Christ into your life to be affected by his grace and his gifts. I believe we are ALL created in the image of God and have his truth and goodness somehow, whether we realize or acknowledge it or not. I think the purpose of prayer isn't only communication with God, but is also meditative.

 

(I'm not saying what I mean very well, darnit. It is late.)

 

So changing one's characteristics for the good  (like the qualities milovany spoke of - less anger, less fear, more tenderness, more trust, less judgment of others, etc.), are available to all people regardless of their religious beliefs? Is it safe to assume in this way God participates in our daily lives whether or not we are aware of it, whether or not we ask for it? When I was a believer, I believed something very similar to this, and referred to, I think Romans 2 or 3 to explain that the will of God is written on the hearts of all men, and so by following one's conscience, one is essentially following the will of God. In that way, I believed, desiring something good and moral was in a sense praying, calling on God to bring it about. Is this similar to what you're suggesting, or a different idea altogether?

[MamaBearTeacher]

My children are ill and suffering and they have been suffering for many years.  How can God allow innocent children to suffer?  What good comes of it?  I have prayed all this time and I can't say my prayers have given me a lot of comfort.  Maybe God has a plan I don't understand, maybe the suffering will turn out to be a bad dream.

[hillfarm]

Yes, I totally believe the God is involved in my daily life. I also believe that His knowledge of what my future holds and His superior comprehension causes Him to many times not grant my immediate requests. In many ways similar to my relationship with my dd.

 

I don't expect everyone to believe the way I do, but I will say that I have found a great deal of peace and the ability to cope with many things based on my belief in God.

[Moxie]

Yes, I totally believe the God is involved in my daily life. I also believe that His knowledge of what my future holds and His superior comprehension causes Him to many times not grant my immediate requests. In many ways similar to my relationship with my dd.

 

I don't expect everyone to believe the way I do, but I will say that I have found a great deal of peace and the ability to cope with many things based on my belief in God.

What about the death of a child? I can see no way good can come of that.

 

ETA: My BIL died suddenly on Christmas Eve at the age of 30. Many people said things to my MIL along the lines of "We don't know God's plan" and "Everything happens for a reason" and "God has a plan for everything". REALLY?!? Do people really believe that good can come from the premature death of a young man with a 5 year old son??? People really believe that God let a young man die so...what??

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

"In everything give thanks" so I do. That part in The Hidding Place when they thanked God for the fleas, even though they didn't know why and it turned out the supervisor wouldn't go in so they were able to freely share the gospel; I read that at a young age and it stuck with me and I've tried to live that way.

[gardenmom5]

without going into detail - yes I do.

[albeto.]

Matthew 6:9-13

 

9 Pray then like this:

“Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name.

10 Your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread,

12 and forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from evil."

 

The bible teaches us to pray and ask God to intervene in our daily lives. We are to want HIS will to be done, not our own. We ask for HIS daily provision in our lives. We are to ask forgiveness of sin and for his help avoiding temptation.

 

So yes, I believe that God is involved in our daily lives.

 

The bible teaches the believer that God will intervene in your daily lives by supplying all your needs to the glory of Christ

Philippians 4:19 -- But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

 

But in order to expect that, the believer must first give to God

II Corinthians 9:6 -- But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully

Luke 6:38 -- Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again

 

Giving to God doesn't stop with tithing, but requires obedience and submission

Ecclesiastes 12:13 -- Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Deuteronomy 10:12-13 -- And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

 

 

The book of John explains that s/he who does not fear God and keep his commandments can expect his prayers to fall on dear ears

John 9:3 -- Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

 

We also are taught that Jesus came for reasons that did not included abolishing these commandments of God 

Matthew 5;17 -- Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

 

So then it seems that certain restrictions do apply, in opposition to what Shanzanne suggested. It would appear that knowing what God's commandments are would be of paramount importance for one who wishes God to participate in their lives in a positive way (because no one likes it when God participates in a negative way). In other words, if one desires God to forgive their sin and help avoiding temptation, they have to know what "Fear of the LORD" means, and what it is "keep his commandments." Only then can one expect to reap bountifully. 

 

Surely someone will point out that this is part of a "Prosperity Theology" to which they don't subscribe. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what someone personally subscribes to, it matters what God thinks and wants, so these are of course of utmost importance to know. Interestingly, as Moxie is noting, people who do not fear God or keep any of his commands seem to be equally blessed. People who do fear God and keep his commands to the best of their ability, are equally cursed. There appears to be no functional difference for the human to believe in, fear, or obey God in order to be "blessed" (or lucky). So this may be a point against Prosperity Theology, but then it is also a point against the claims made by the Christian faith in general (he who believes in/fears/obeys/loves God will be blessed in some way - physical and/or spiritual needs met). These claims are simply not supported in real life. 

 

When I was questioning my faith, these very questions came to my mind as well. I asked and asked and, like Moxie is now, received answers that were diametrically opposed to one another (like yours and Shanzanne's reply to me). I was told to rely on "mature Christians," then eventually I was told I was being obstinate and argumentative. I felt that I was simply asking questions, my sincere motivation was to learn the truth. I hope that doesn't happen to Moxie, but she may opt for the path I eventually rejected - stop asking questions and just believe anyway. In any case, these are most intriguing questions, and your answers seem to go completely against Shanzanne's. So if Moxie (or anyone genuinely questioning the claims of the faith) wanted to learn more, how would she know which direction to go?

[JuanitaL]

In what way is this different from not being involved?

 

Are you uninvolved in your children's lives when you tell them no?

[JuanitaL]

When I say "No" or "Wait" to my child, am I not involved? I experience it as more involved usually, because of the response I get in return!

 

*I responded before I saw this one - otherwise I would have just agreed.

[albeto.]

When I say "No" or "Wait" to my child, am I not involved? I experience it as more involved usually, because of the response I get in return!

 

When you say "No" or "Wait" to your child, there is a two way communication going on to which your child is directly involved. When you pray however, you wait for events to unfold. If they unfold in your favor, you interpret that as a "Yes." If they do not unfold in your favor, you interpret that as a "Wait" or as a "No." The events that do unfold are subsequently interpreted as either the natural consequence, or God offering or teaching you something else. Ultimately, you're interpreting events against the backdrop of expectations made in faith of a belief system to which you are intimately familiar and personally invested in. This isn't what your kids are doing. 

[livetoread]

Moxie, your family has suffered some truly devastating things. I'm so sorry for their pain and yours.

[albeto.]

FYI, the OP didn't say Jesus Christ. ;)

 

I know. I was responding to milovany, who did.

 

:)

 

How are you feeling, btw? You had us quite worried for a while. 

[albeto.]

Are you uninvolved in your children's lives when you tell them no?

 

My involvement is objectively factual. God's involvement is at best implied. This implication is under scrutiny. 

[Moxie]

Moxie, your family has suffered some truly devastating things. I'm so sorry for their pain and yours.

My MIL is an amazing woman. She's lost a BIL, a son and a husband all very, very young and she is still a wonderful, happy person. I'd have gone postal a long time ago!

 

Both of my sisters have gone on to have successful (and VERY stressful) pregnancies.

 

We have had some terrible things happen but we're also very blessed/lucky (depending on your worldview).

[Bensmom]

I am part of an adoption advocacy group, and it makes me absolutely insane when people crow about "God is good!" and "It's all part of God's plan!" when a child is adopted, but they never seem to praise God for the kids who are left rotting in neglectful and abusive institutions for years on end. It makes me feel like "You can't have it both ways, people," and contributes to my belief that there is no god intervening in our lives.

So do you think that God causes and delights in the suffering of innocents? Wow. What a horrible God that would be. I could never serve a god like that either!

 

Are God's children not allowed to have both feelings of great delight at some things and great heartache at others? Are your children forbidden "to have it both ways" and delight in family surprises and thank-you for your acts of kindness, but also sometimes feel hurt or angry, or confused by you as their parent or situations beyond their control? I suspect not. All humans, even those of faith, are wired to feel lots of emotions. And, I highly doubt any of your adoption advocacy group is expressing joy at the suffering of other children. I imagine they, like yourself, are deeply burdened by the suffering/neglect of any child. But I could be wrong...

 

 

P.S. My husband and I have had three very painful failed adoptions. We will not try again. I am however very thankful for the lives that touched ours for a brief time because of those experiences, and believe God helped me through some of the darkest hours when I thought my heart would never be healed.