Heartbreaking news in my area

[qtkimi]

You don't know the daycare worker, teacher, babysitter etc when you first meet them

 

You do at least know that the teacher at school and daycare have been fingerprinted and background checked. He would not have passed that.

[FaithManor]

No, the bathroom was back in the employee-only section which was separated from the storefront by a closed door. I guess the mom trusted her creep-meter and all was fine. As it usually is. Fact is, there is always going to be some risk, but we can't stop living. Not long ago there was a 10yo girl who was with her mom, and a creep murdered the mom in order to abduct the girl. We aren't even completely safe at home - little Dylan Groene wasn't. :( Demonizing the mom just isn't right. Moms can't prevent all harm from befalling their kids, as much as we'd like to.

 

Yup!

 

And I'm not in a particularly merciful mode at the moment so if they did a BIG, DEEP HOLE and toss him in...ya now, HELL'S CANYON throwing nothing more than moldy bread and a water bottle down into the abyss everyday, I don't think my conscience would bother me. I don't know what that says about me, but I don't feel very civilized when it comes to child predators.

 

That poor mom. I.can.not.possibly.imagine. I hope the community rallies behind her.

 

Faith

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

Yup!

 

And I'm not in a particularly merciful mode at the moment so if they did a BIG, DEEP HOLE and toss him in...ya now, HELL'S CANYON throwing nothing more than moldy bread and a water bottle down into the abyss everyday, I don't think my conscience would bother me. I don't know what that says about me, but I don't feel very civilized when it comes to child predators.

 

That poor mom. I.can.not.possibly.imagine. I hope the community rallies behind her.

 

Faith

 

I agree. Nobody wants me in charge of determining methods of justice.

[FaithManor]

DD says that her medic book has some fine pictures of VD's that most of you have never heard of...nice, necrotic flesh, rot the junk off, so painful a boatload of morphine won't take the edge off, VD. She says he should be shranded on an uninhabited coral atoll after being injected with one of them.

 

Clearly, she inherited my vigilante justice gene. Good golly it's probably a good thing she and I are not prison wardens!

 

Faith

[Impish]

Or maybe that's what's needed in cases like this, Faith.

[swellmomma]

You don't know the daycare worker, teacher, babysitter etc when you first meet them

 

You do at least know that the teacher at school and daycare have been fingerprinted and background checked. He would not have passed that.

 

 

I have been a daycare worker for 25 years and have never been finger printed. The most they do as a background check is get a child welfare check which is not the same as a criminal record check. Some daycares do both, but many do not. I was hired at one over the phone without an in person interview from 5 hours away. I moved to the city it was in and started working 2 days later before I even had gone to the station to get my record checks. Now I was vouched for by another employee there but that means little in the grand scheme of things.

 

As far as I know from working in the school in afterschool care the same is true for the teachers.

 

Regardless my point is there is many adults in our kids lives we don't truly know, the scout leader, music teacher, VBS leader, etc. that was my point. Blaming the mom serves nothing more than to make oneself feel superior. Everyday we trust people with our kids. She trusted the wrong guy, but really she could have trusted her best friend's husband that she had known for 10 years and it still could have happened. Predators are out there, they are rare enough that yes we should listen to our gut about people/situations but we should still accept that most people are good, honest people that would never in a million years do something like that beast did.

 

Faith I like how your dd thinks :)

[Joker]

I was a daycare worker just out of high school and again after I had oldest. I was not finger printed. I was actually hired the same day I interviewed (in both instances) so there couldn't have been a background check either. These were large, well known daycares in the community as well.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The mother should not have let her child go off with a stranger. Period. I would hope she is feeling pretty bad right now.

 

When you reach the point of wishing suffering on a grieving mother, perhaps it is best you just log off of the Internet for the day.

[pdalley]

Sadly there was a horrible local case where the child allegedly was handed over to him by her own mother to settle a drug debt. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/antoinette-davis-shaniya-_n_359677.html

 

These guys are pretty good con artists. Ted Bundy conned a lot of people for example. My own mother put myself and my brother in a situation that put both of us at risk - the full extent of it I only learned after her death. My mother wasn't a dumb woman but she didn't have very good judgement when it came to men.

 

I have yet to see a shred of evidence that these monsters can be fixed or rehabilitated. I've always held they should be treated like rabid animals. This monster should not have been out of jail in the first place.

[songsparrow]

Blaming the mom serves nothing more than to make oneself feel superior.

 

 

Yes, I have to think that blaming the mother in this situation (and the too common tendency to blame the victim of crimes in general) is a subconscious coping mechanism - a form of denial, where a person can assure themselves that because they would "never" do x, the bad thing that happened to that person could never happen to them or the people that they love. Because the alternative is too frightening to contemplate.

[Kari C in SC]

 

 

When you reach the point of wishing suffering on a grieving mother, perhaps it is best you just log off of the Internet for the day.

 

 

You know I have had to bury my own child and I don't wish that pain on anyone, but I feel as if this mother has a HUGE responsibility in the death of her child. It was plain stupidity. I always, always sympathize with grieving mothers, but I gotta say that in this case... This mother just makes me ill.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

You know I have had to bury my own child and I don't wish that pain on anyone, but I feel as if this mother has a HUGE responsibility in the death of her child. It was plain stupidity. I always, always sympathize with grieving mothers, but I gotta say that in this case... This mother just makes me ill.

 

 

And the point of that is...what exactly? Do you think she isn't regretting that decision? My read on the situation is that she has had a hard time, someone offered them help, and she trusted the wrong person. The thought that the nice man who bought you groceries/clothes is only doing so to set up kidnapping and killing your child is not something most people would have.

[sparrow]

Yup!

 

And I'm not in a particularly merciful mode at the moment so if they did a BIG, DEEP HOLE and toss him in...ya now, HELL'S CANYON throwing nothing more than moldy bread and a water bottle down into the abyss everyday, I don't think my conscience would bother me. I don't know what that says about me, but I don't feel very civilized when it comes to child predators.

 

That poor mom. I.can.not.possibly.imagine. I hope the community rallies behind her.

 

Faith

 

 

Faith, my husband said the *exact* same thing.

[NicAnn]

I was a daycare worker just out of high school and again after I had oldest. I was not finger printed. I was actually hired the same day I interviewed (in both instances) so there couldn't have been a background check either. These were large, well known daycares in the community as well.

 

 

I've been a nanny a daycare worker since I was 15. I've never been fingerprinted and only had a background check once, privately. Most of my full time nanny jobs didn't even ask for references. It is disturbing actually.

[Pamela H in Texas]

So he charmed them, in their time of desperation. He probably mentioned being some trusted member of society, especially since that was part of his MO before. I didn't read the articles, but maybe she was younger also? I did some *really* stupid things when Kimberly was a baby. Also, depending on her background, she may have been in situations to need to hand them over to people she didn't know well; so didn't think much (or enough) of it.

 

Really, I see the stupidity of what she did. I think it is important to remember that the CRIMINAL is the one at fault, not the mother in a moment of weakness or not thinking or whatever.

[SKL]

In the past two weeks I've left my 6yo kids with many strangers, most of whom are very unlikely to have had a background check. If I was afraid to ever leave my kids with strangers, I'd be unable to hold a job, and for most single moms, that would mean being unable to meet their basic needs. Which could mean having your kids taken from you all together by the "child protection" authorities, and placed with - that's right - more strangers. ... Furthermore, this mom sent her 8yo daughter to another place in the same store she was in to go get some fast food. The man was with her, but the daughter was walking there on her own legs, and very likely would have been sent on this errand even if she were alone. It is horrible what happened to her, but I do not see where the mom's actions, as we know them, were negligent. People send their 8yos out of their sight alone all the time, and normally nothing happens. You can't use hindsight to determine which parenting decisions were responsible vs. negligent.

[Joker]

Also, depending on her background, she may have been in situations to need to hand them over to people she didn't know well; so didn't think much (or enough) of it.

 

 

 

The information out there is she has had it rough and at one time her and this same daughter lived in a homeless shelter. I think she most definitely has relied on the kindness of strangers often.

[Liz CA]

Last night, around 7 o'clock, a mother and her three children were befriended by an older man at a local store. Later that evening, he accompanied them to WalMart and offered to take the woman's 8 year-old daughter to the store McDonald's for a snack. He walked right out the door with her. They found her body this morning. The man is in custody. He's a repeat sex offender who was just released from prison last month.

 

http://jacksonville....watching-disney

 

It's hard to understand.

 

 

Gosh, so many red flags. I feel for the poor woman who is now devastated and wishing she could rewind time. I do not understand how you let someone walk away with one of your kids when you have just met him. This is heart-breaking indeed for the mother and the girl's siblings!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

 

Gosh, so many red flags. I feel for the poor woman who is now devastated and wishing she could rewind time. I do not understand how you let someone walk away with one of your kids when you have just met him. This is heart-breaking indeed for the mother and the girl's siblings!

 

Keep in mind that her daughter was simply going to a McD's in the same store - it is different than sending the child off alone with the man. The thought that the man buying your family cl

[ChocolateReignRemix]

double post

[Liz CA]

In the past two weeks I've left my 6yo kids with many strangers, most of whom are very unlikely to have had a background check. If I was afraid to ever leave my kids with strangers, I'd be unable to hold a job, and for most single moms, that would mean being unable to meet their basic needs. Which could mean having your kids taken from you all together by the "child protection" authorities, and placed with - that's right - more strangers. ... Furthermore, this mom sent her 8yo daughter to another place in the same store she was in to go get some fast food. The man was with her, but the daughter was walking there on her own legs, and very likely would have been sent on this errand even if she were alone. It is horrible what happened to her, but I do not see where the mom's actions, as we know them, were negligent. People send their 8yos out of their sight alone all the time, and normally nothing happens. You can't use hindsight to determine which parenting decisions were responsible vs. negligent.

 

 

I agree with you except for one thing. IMHO, there is a difference if someone volunteers to take your child somewhere or if your daughter walks into the next aisle to look at something. Yes, she could be snatched from one aisle over as well but it would raise a red flag for me if someone was so super-friendly and offered to take my daughter somewhere.

 

But I do not want to go any further here. Most of all, I feel for the woman who right now must be so deeply miserable; I can only try to imagine it.

[Kari C in SC]

My 14 dd just brought this up... We were in Walmart tonight. I was at the redbox and she asked to run to the hair dye aisle alone. I did let her go. I would NOT have allowed my 8 year old ds to go alone. She pointed out that I in no way would have let her walk off with some man we didn't know. Not in a minute. Not ever. And she is 14, not 8. It is as basic as the stranger danger drill we have all taught our kids. I get that she will regret this for the rest of her life and believe I get that she will mourn her daughter forever. I think this should be a lesson to all parents that you don't let your kids go off with strangers.

[SKL]

I agree with you except for one thing. IMHO, there is a difference if someone volunteers to take your child somewhere or if your daughter walks into the next aisle to look at something. Yes, she could be snatched from one aisle over as well but it would raise a red flag for me if someone was so super-friendly and offered to take my daughter somewhere.

 

I think it would send my creep-meters off if some stranger asked to take my daughter to buy her something without me, but I don't know exactly how it went down. It does seem he would have had to be with her if he was going to pay for the food, but two people going to the same place doesn't equal one taking the other there. I can't imagine how he got her to leave the store with him either way. There's a lot we don't know, and maybe never will.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I won't heap sorrow upon sorrow by bashing the mom, but wisdom----wisdom is always good to seek. Very sad all around.

[Anne in CA]

The worst thing is that I am sure the woman will never recover. I know I never would. I do Bible study with a woman whose son just went to prison this year as a sex offender, and prison is not nice to sex offenders. Right now his deepest prayer is to be killed by another inmate to avoid the current way he lives. I do not understand ever releasing someone would has threatened to hurt a child much less done it. I think they should be "contained", given jobs and decent food and completely segregated from the rest of society forever.

[unfrumpable.]

When you reach the point of wishing suffering on a grieving mother, perhaps it is best you just log off of the Internet for the day.

 

 

 

I sure do appreciate your suggestion.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

When you reach the point of wishing suffering on a grieving mother, perhaps it is best you just log off of the Internet for the day.

 

 

 

I know.

 

Between this thread, the Paula Deen thread and its spinoffs I am renewing my vow to impress upon my children

rule of life #2:

 

Not every thought that passes through your mind should exit from your lips.

 

Or, in this digital age, your fingertips.

[swellmomma]

When you reach the point of wishing suffering on a grieving mother, perhaps it is best you just log off of the Internet for the day.

 

 

Holy carp, it must be the end times...I just agreed with CR (trying to think of when that has happened before, if it has it must of been some time ago) lol

[Dahliarw]

I don't understand, from my white middle class 2-parent family perspective, ever thinking this would be an ok thing to allow with any of my children. That being said, if I were a single mom struggling to survive, my perspective would be different. I do think, however, that this girl probably was not taught basics of "strangers". My kis know not ot leave stores with others unless I specifically say it's ok, etc. And maybe the mom would of, but if I told my ds to go to McDs, he wouldn't think it was ok to go get in someone's van and I've taught him techniques to fight if someone does try to take him. As for the daycare/teacher thing. I worked in several daycares, never fingerprinted, but always background checked. They also called my references. I was also never in a room alone with a child, it wasn't allowed. When I got my teaching degree I was fingerprinted. It was a requirement to get my teaching certificate.

[unfrumpable.]

I know.

 

Between this thread, the Paula Deen thread and its spinoffs I am renewing my vow to impress upon my children

rule of life #2:

 

Not every thought that passes through your mind should exit from your lips.

 

Or, in this digital age, your fingertips.

 

 

Yep, I think that about several threads I have read on this forum.

[NicAnn]

A few years ago I saw a homeless man on the street corner. I was driving a huge box of food to the food bank, so I pulled over and offered him food. We have had to eat from donated food many times, so seeing this guy made me feel extremely emotional. I got out of the car, engine running, walked around to the back seat and opened the door and stood right next to the man as he picked out the things he wanted. He could have easily thrown me in the car, or stabbed me, groped me, whatever and no one would have seen. We all do stupid things, especially when we are desperate or emotional.

The poor mother made a terrible decision but should not be vilified.

[Audrey]

I think all the comments wishing nastiness upon the pervert's genitals are really missing the boat. The pervert can molest and murder without his penis. He can even get off on the molesting and murdering without his penis. His sickness isn't about his g*dd*amn penis! It's about his g*dd*mn sick as hell mind!

 

IMO, sickos like that are not curable and not even treatable. Unless the kids' parents and/or loved ones want to take their own vengeance, I say just lock their whole sick selves away without ever seeing another living person again.

[BakersDozen]

but I could definitely see sending an 8yo to the McD's counter in a WalMart.

 

People send their 8yos out of their sight alone all the time, and normally nothing happens.

 

8 years old. EIGHT. No, an 8yo should not be sent to McD's in a WalMart unattended where parents cannot see them clearly - and by clearly I mean parents are either in McD's as well or standing right outside. One distraction from another dc, one glance away while parent is in checkout aisle halfway down the store...that's all it takes.

 

I cannot imagine sending an 8yo somewhere in a store by herself. I wouldn't send my 10yo by herself in a store where I couldn't see her. Heck I will have an 11yo here soon and she wouldn't be sent by herself.

 

It's just not worth the risk.

 

I cannot imagine what that mom is going through...what she will go through for the rest of her life. :(

[Murphy101]

I have no idea what the mother was or is thinking or feeling.

 

I'd like to think she is heartbroken. Because I would want to die myself if that had been my baby girl.

 

But no we cant assume it. Sadly some kids go to sleep every day without knowing the love of a parent in this world. Some of them die without it.

 

In the end, the mother doesn't matter anyways.

 

The tragedy of that child's death eclipses all else in her short life.

[jhschool]

I try not to say personal opinions that are controversial on this forum.

But...when I read stuff like this I am pro-death penalty.

And I don't feel like this often...

[Shahrazad]

I think all the comments wishing nastiness upon the pervert's genitals are really missing the boat. The pervert can molest and murder without his penis. He can even get off on the molesting and murdering without his penis. His sickness isn't about his g*dd*amn penis! It's about his g*dd*mn sick as hell mind!

 

IMO, sickos like that are not curable and not even treatable. Unless the kids' parents and/or loved ones want to take their own vengeance, I say just lock their whole sick selves away without ever seeing another living person again.

 

 

I think those of us wishing nastiness on his genitals and hoping his junk falls off in an excruciating way don't believe that this would keep him from harming children but simply wish that, in addition to being locked in the deepest, darkest hole and having the key thrown away, he experiences this added punishment and pain which, given his crime, seems like poetic justice. Not so much, 'to keep this from happening again' as 'please cut off his balls and feed them to him because this sick pervert deserves even worse than that'.

 

There was a similar case in the emirates a while ago, it was very disturbing and very surprising because this kind of thing was more uncommon there and the circumstances really shocked everyone. The law there gives the choice to the family of the victim as to whether the perp will be executed or imprisoned for life (and pay a blood debt). The guy was just recently executed (like 2 yrs after the crime was committed, I think), they say he cried like a little coward and begged the child's father to 'forgive him' but, understandably, the family would not waive the execution for him.

[swellmomma]

 

I think those of us wishing nastiness on his genitals and hoping his junk falls off in an excruciating way don't believe that this would keep him from harming children but simply wish that, in addition to being locked in the deepest, darkest hole and having the key thrown away, he experiences this added punishment and pain which, given his crime, seems like poetic justice. Not so much, 'to keep this from happening again' as 'please cut off his balls and feed them to him because this sick pervert deserves even worse than that'.

 

 

This. I wished him gangrene in his junk. Not because I think it would stop him from harming, I know it is about power and twisted sadist sickmindess that he did what he did. I wish because I think prison is too good for him, I think even the death penalty is too good for him. I think he needs to die a slow and painful, torturous death like the little girl would have. I think he needs to suffer excrutiating pain which a horrendous infection in his junk would cause. I know he can harm again even with a p*nis, so my comment isn't just about a p*nis, I don't think he deserves to live, and the death penalty is too kind.

[swellmomma]

8 years old. EIGHT. No, an 8yo should not be sent to McD's in a WalMart unattended where parents cannot see them clearly - and by clearly I mean parents are either in McD's as well or standing right outside. One distraction from another dc, one glance away while parent is in checkout aisle halfway down the store...that's all it takes.

 

I cannot imagine sending an 8yo somewhere in a store by herself. I wouldn't send my 10yo by herself in a store where I couldn't see her. Heck I will have an 11yo here soon and she wouldn't be sent by herself.

 

It's just not worth the risk.

 

I cannot imagine what that mom is going through...what she will go through for the rest of her life. :(

 

And that is why you couldn't imagine this happening in your family. I allow my kids by 8-9 to go to different areas of a store without me. In fact sometimes I send them on a mission for something while I grab something else. Today my 9 year old was learning how to ride a quad by a dad of a kid that I met recently. The kid is one of the herd of little girls that look up to dd13, all 4 of my kids were with a portion of this herd ot little girl's house. Dad decided to teach all kids present (as allowed by parents) to ride a quad. Now I have only briefly met the mother when this little girl was hurt in front of my house, the dad I have never met. DD5 did not ride, ds9 brought her home first then went back. The teens finished up first and came home, dd13 to get ready for a sleepover, ds14 to call a friend. Ds9 was left at this house on his own and learned to ride a quad from this dad. I don't know this person, I was not supervising. But I allowed it because it was a heck of a fun thing to learn to do, and not an experience I can provide. Anything could have happened, but I felt the risk vs benefit was fine. Earlier he was walking the dogs we are sitting on his own. and the list goes on.

 

Not everyone feels the need to keep their eyes 100% on their kids all the time. That does not mean they were negligent, the vast majority of the time everything is fine.

 

It's funny, the first time I ever let ds9 go off without me somewhere was when he was 7, just 2 months before his 8th birthday. I let him go with a camp counsellor that I had only met once, a dad and a group of campers across the highway to go ride horses while I stayed back to take a nap with dd then 3. Their van was hit by a semi. Ds was very hurt, I am sure if you were on the boards back then you would remember my posts about it and the next 8 months of recovery. He still has near daily pain as a result of his injuries. For a long time I felt guilty for allowing him to go, but finally had to accept that it didn't matter if I was there or not, the accident would have happened. Actually it was discovered that had I been there, not only would ds have been hurt but I would have been dead (as would anyone who would have sat in the 1 seat that was left empty). Anyway, I do have a point to this. Now the accident my ds was is in, is like apples vs oranges compared to the choice this mother made to let her dd go. But I know when I agreed to let ds go I never dreamed there would be such an outcome. I figured he was in for a fun activity, loosen those apron strings a bit and let him feel some independance, and he would come back so proud of his adventure. I imagine the mother thinking along those lines, that it was safe, she was in the same store, give the girl a little independance in what she perceived to be a safe manner etc. And yet it turned out to be a horrible outcome. Given how much guilt I had, and how long I mulled through the what ifs and my ds was alive and mostly well, healing, and such. I can only imagine the level this mother must be feeling.

 

Back to my point. There are plenty of decent parents who allow their kids even as young as 8 to be out of their sight. They mentally weigh the risks and decide if it is worth the risk for the benefit. Sometimes despite the apparent low risk, horrible sh*t happens, and those that would have never made that choice in the first place have a hard time wrapping their heads around it. But that does not inherently mean the parent wasn't thinking, or was negligent etc.

 

In this case who knows what will come out. For the time being I choose to believe the mother was a good parent despite tough circumstances, and was doing the best she could thinking she was doing right by her kids. A parent in dire circumstances will feel they are doing the right thing accepting things from a stranger if it benefits the kids, and it makes it hard to see where the line is between good samaritan and grooming for something evil.

 

Anyway, it is 1am, my feet are painfully swollen after standinig for hours canning, my thoughts are a jumble so forgive my rambling if it makes no coherent sense. I know what I was saying, even if no one else does lol

[kiwik]

It is a horrible thing to happen. Most of us don't live the life the mother and her children live so we can not really understand what seems normal to her. And sexual predators are persuasive as are abusive men.

[ktgrok]

Considering that she was in and out of homeless shelters, living in various places, etc she most likely has had to leave her children with people she barely knows many many times, in order to work, get food, whatever. It's a different lifestyle that those of us in our safe houses typing on our computers can't understand.

[Guest submarines]

My 14 dd just brought this up... We were in Walmart tonight. I was at the redbox and she asked to run to the hair dye aisle alone. I did let her go. I would NOT have allowed my 8 year old ds to go alone. She pointed out that I in no way would have let her walk off with some man we didn't know. Not in a minute. Not ever. And she is 14, not 8. It is as basic as the stranger danger drill we have all taught our kids. I get that she will regret this for the rest of her life and believe I get that she will mourn her daughter forever. I think this should be a lesson to all parents that you don't let your kids go off with strangers.

 

 

And yet the chances of a stranger molesting your child is much lower than it being a friend or a relative.

 

Teaching children that "strangers = danger" is actually dangerous in itself as it doesn't provide them with tools to keep themselves safe in situations when they are separated from their parents, for example.

[*Michelle*]

 

And yet the chances of a stranger molesting your child is much lower than it being a friend or a relative.

 

Teaching children that "strangers = danger" is actually dangerous in itself as it doesn't provide them with tools to keep themselves safe in situations when they are separated from their parents, for example.

 

 

We've drilled it into our five year-old that if he ever gets separated from us, he should try to find a police officer first. If he doesn't see a police officer, he should go to a mommy who has her kids with her and ask her for help. We go through this every time we're going to be a place where he could get separated from us.

[Danestress]

We all do stupid things, especially when we are desperate or emotional.

The poor mother made a terrible decision but should not be vilified.

 

 

I agree. When my twins were little tiny babies I had them at a library and an old woman asked if she could hold one of them. There was clearly something wrong with her, but I was too polite to say no. Stupid me. It turned out fine, but what mistake it could have been. Protecting The Gift was a good education for me.

[SKL]

I agree, "stranger danger" is an unfortunate term and I never use it with my kids. Stranger =/= danger. Stranger = unknown, but most people are good. It is important to teach kids not to distrust everyone, but to not do certain things. For example, I always tell my kids they must not go anywhere (including through any doors) with anyone, without my express permission, no matter what they are told by a stranger. I do not tell them to be afraid of or rude to the nice man who says hi as they walk down the street. They can and should talk to strangers who talk to them first, but while doing so they must not leave the sidewalk (or whatever path they set out to take with my permission). Kids need to develop their own sense of who's good and who's icky, and how is that going to happen if they are convinced all strangers are the boogey man? And as hard as it to say, some horrible things are going to happen regardless of parents taking all kinds of precautions. Thank goodness it is an extremely rare "stranger" who would hurt a child.

[kwg]

We've drilled it into our five year-old that if he ever gets separated from us, he should try to find a police officer first. If he doesn't see a police officer, he should go to a mommy who has her kids with her and ask her for help. We go through this every time we're going to be a place where he could get separated from us.

 

 

 

I tell mine the mommy. But it is bc when I was growing up there was a sicko posing as a police officer pulling women over. So it is like pp have said, you can never tell :-(

[happypamama]

 

 

We've drilled it into our five year-old that if he ever gets separated from us, he should try to find a police officer first. If he doesn't see a police officer, he should go to a mommy who has her kids with her and ask her for help. We go through this every time we're going to be a place where he could get separated from us.

 

 

Seeing a police officer just out and about is fairly rare here; I definitely wouldn't rely on that. I tell my kids to look for a mom with other kids (a dad with kids would be a second choice, because it's also rarer) or someone who is working. The latter can be trickier to identify, because lots of people have uniforms or the like, but we point out cashiers, customer service desk, stuff like that. But the reality is that MOST people would be safe; it's going to be very rare that a child gets separated from a parent accidentally and picks a predator to ask for help.

 

I'm so sorry for that mom/family.

[*Michelle*]

It's rare here too, but we don't go out with all the kids very often. When we do, it's to something like a festival and there are always lots of police milling around. He's good with uniforms, probably because my husband is military and my son likes to figure out who is who based on what they're wearing.

 

And yes, it would be a very rare thing for a child to get lost and then to pick a predator to ask for help. I think it would be less rare, though, for a predator to be in a crowded area and keep an eye out for lost kids to approach to "help."

 

For me... this is the second kidnapping/murder in our area in four years. I know that statistics are on most everyone's side, but it's driving home the fact that there are bad people out there and that "out there" is pretty close by.

[poppy]

My 14 dd just brought this up... We were in Walmart tonight. I was at the redbox and she asked to run to the hair dye aisle alone. I did let her go. I would NOT have allowed my 8 year old ds to go alone. She pointed out that I in no way would have let her walk off with some man we didn't know. Not in a minute. Not ever. And she is 14, not 8. It is as basic as the stranger danger drill we have all taught our kids. I get that she will regret this for the rest of her life and believe I get that she will mourn her daughter forever. I think this should be a lesson to all parents that you don't let your kids go off with strangers.

 

You won't let your 14 year old go to a different aisle of the store without you? That seems really unusual. I got my first job when I was 14. At that age a certain measure of independence is healthy, unless the child has special circumstances or needs.

[Guest submarines]

Considering that she was in and out of homeless shelters, living in various places, etc she most likely has had to leave her children with people she barely knows many many times, in order to work, get food, whatever. It's a different lifestyle that those of us in our safe houses typing on our computers can't understand.

 

:iagree:

 

She probably had to leave her children not only with people who she barely knew, but also who didn't even seem "nice." I've worked in shelters where many of my coworkers acted outright mean and disrespectful, even if they were acting "by the book" and "following rules." There were those who really tried to be nice, but couldn't, and one could feel their demeaning fake acts, even if their heart was in the right place. Homeless shelters are often staffed with bitter, burned out social workers.

 

Then she met a master manipulator, who, for a change, seemed to be genuinely nice to her. Is it that wrong that she let her guard down? She's only human. If predators like him weren't charming and extremely skilled in manipulating people, we wouldn't have tragedies like this happening. She'd tell him, "Get away, creep," and that would be it.

 

I've been thinking about it, and I think the mother (based on the information available right now) hasn't done anything wrong. She let her child walk to MacDonald's within that store with a person she, at that moment, trusted. And you know what? There are many kind, honest people who help others in need, and would chat with a single mom in a store, and maybe buy her some clothes and food, and invite her for lunch in MacDonald's. I've done some variation of this when $50 didn't seem like a lot of money to me. My husband has done some variation of this. In the vast, vast, majority of cases people who offer help are not predators.

 

 

For now, I'm taking it at face value--if she let her daughter stroll to the restaurant with this man, she must have felt a good vibe from him. Whether I'd felt the same good vibe, I'm not sure. Everyone is different. I'd like to think that I would've been more aware, more perceptive, more this or more that. And as someone pointed out upthread, statistically speaking, she would've been more "wrong" to trust her cousin or her social worker, than a mere stranger.

 

 

What happened to her is like being hit by a car while crossing a street on a green light. Yes, she could've looked around more, she could've walked faster or slower, she could've chosen a different intersection with better visibility, but she still crossed that street on a green light.

[jelbe5]

I have yet to see a shred of evidence that these monsters can be fixed or rehabilitated. I've always held they should be treated like rabid animals. This monster should not have been out of jail in the first place.

 

I totally agree. I used to work at our county jail. When I went to do intake, I refrained from looking at info on the person, so initially I usually did not know why they were in jail. I would always get a creepy feeling with those who were in jail for sex crimes against children. They were always ingratiating, almost "charming" individuals - with a sickening, overly sugary sweet charm . . .

 

Someone pointed out to me that you can't rehabilitate someone who was never habilitated to begin with . . .