Can a public school require ...

[Haiku]

... students to attend Baccalaureate, which is typically a religious event?

 

Tara

[peachskittles]

I had to google it, since I never heard of it.

 

http://youngadults.a...ccalaureate.htm

 

I am assuming the link is correct in its description of the event. It doesn't sound like it would be something they would require them to attend. It does sound like something you would be looked at oddly if you did not attend though.

[gardenmom5]

I've never heard of requiring attending baccalaureate. I also haven't heard of them requiring graduating students to attend the actual graduation.

[justasque]

This page, from the US Dept of Education, is very useful in navigating these kinds of issues. Note that this does not apply to private schools. From the page:

 

Prayer at Graduation

 

School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation or select speakers for such events in a manner that favors religious speech such as prayer. Where students or other private graduation speakers are selected on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria and retain primary control over the content of their expression, however, that expression is not attributable to the school and therefore may not be restricted because of its religious (or anti-religious) content. To avoid any mistaken perception that a school endorses student or other private speech that is not in fact attributable to the school, school officials may make appropriate, neutral disclaimers to clarify that such speech (whether religious or nonreligious) is the speaker's and not the school's.

 

Baccalaureate Ceremonies

 

School officials may not mandate or organize religious ceremonies. However, if a school makes its facilities and related services available to other private groups, it must make its facilities and services available on the same terms to organizers of privately sponsored religious baccalaureate ceremonies. In addition, a school may disclaim official endorsement of events sponsored by private groups, provided it does so in a manner that neither favors nor disfavors groups that meet to engage in prayer or religious speech.

[Ipsey]

We had a Baccalaureate Ceremony in high school. It was done on an evening and wasn't mandatory. It was held in the high school, but ours was the last class, I believe. I don't even know whether they do one any more. It was Christian, of course. The guy who gave the sermon was a Campbellite, Church of Christ Preacher and the father of one of the girls in my class.

 

I'm sure it can't be mandatory in the U.S.

[TravelingChris]

We had ours at the National Cathedral. There was no sign in and I am thinking it was open to the graduates but not a forced attendance. Ours turned into sort of a remembrance service too because we had one of our seniors die right before.

[Mama Geek]

Ours was sponsored by the community not the school and was not held at the school

[Loowit]

My class adviser told our class it was mandatory, but if a student had pushed it I am guessing that it wouldn't have been forced. It was put on by our local church, the only one in our very small community. DH's school had nothing to do with theirs. If the senior class wanted one then it was up to the students to organize. DH was heavily involved with a Bible study group at his school and that group sought out help from the local youth pastor association they helped them to organize it. It was held at the high school, but it was clearly stated that it was not school sponsored and not mandatory. Schools can not legally make it mandatory, but from personal experience they can try and unless someone complains not much is done about it.

[magnificent_baby]

It's not mandatory here, I don't think. There have been lawsuits though in surrounding communities regarding prayer at the service.

[Harriet Vane]

If it is religious in nature, then no, they cannot require attendance or participation.

 

If it is a non-spiritual, non-religious ceremony for reflection or remembrance, then it is a school event like any other, subject to school policy.

 

The real questions are, though--Will they be honest with you about the nature of the event? Will they attempt to strong-arm attendance because they are on a power trip?

[AK_Mom4]

Not required here because it is done as a religious ceremony, usually at a local church.

 

DS21 did not go. DD19 went, but only because she was being performing in the group that providing the music and got free food. I imagine when the time comes that DS17 will pass on attending since he hates listening to speeches.

[bettyandbob]

It's not mandatory at our local high school. It was held at the school when I was in high school. But even 30 years ago there was a representative of a Christian congregation and a Jewish congregation --the main homily given by a female Rabbi. Today, more faiths are involved and it's not at the school. My ds did not wish to attend last year so I didn't get to witness how they mix it all together.

[Haiku]

Interesting. Thanks. My dd was told that she has to attend baccalaureate in order to be allowed to attend graduation. It was originally going to be held in a church, but I guess there was pushback on that so now it's going to be a "nondenominational" service at the local university's events center. Considering that this is the school that had a mandatory parent meeting run by a pastor on using the Bible to improve your relationship with our child, I'm not holding high hopes that it's going to be a non-religious event. And yes, this is a PUBLIC school.

 

Tara

[Lady Florida.]

I've never heard of it being mandatory. I don't see how that would be legal.

[Lisa in Jax]

Huh. When DD graduated two years ago, baccalaureate was completely voluntary.

[LibraryLover]

No way.

 

Lots of kids don't attend.

[gingersmom]

I grew up in nj and Connecticut and have never heard of such a thing. I had a ton of friends on Long Island (ny) and nothing there either.

 

It seems like more of a regional thing to me.

 

I have never lived in an area that is predominately Christian.

[Crimson Wife]

I grew up in New England and we had an interreligious one. It was organized by the ecumenical association of the 3 big churches in my hometown (Catholic, Congregationalist, and Unitarian) and they also invited the rabbi of the closest synagogue and the priest from my mom's Episcopal church in the next town over. I don't know whether or not an invitation was made to the local Mormon temple, but there wasn't a Mormon representative despite there being 2 Mormon kids in my graduating class of 65. All of the speeches were generic rather than referencing a specific faith.

 

The ceremony was held in the school auditorium but participation was totally voluntary. My best friend growing up came from a secular family and did not participate.

[Joshin]

I've never heard of one. My child would not be attending out of principle, even if we were Christian. In my experience, most people use "nondenominational" to mean "no specific flavor of Christian," which means it isn't really for all faiths or spiritual beliefs, and never mind the non-believers completely. It's an illegal requirement and whomever thought it was a good idea to make it mandatory does not deserve to be working for the public school system.

[*********]

My graduating class didn't have one. At least that I knew about.

 

And fwiw, if my boys attended public school and such a service were offered, they would not be attending. "Mandatory" or not.

[Freckles]

I went to mine. It was sponsored by some of the larger churches in my town. I would say the majority of students attended. From what I remember, it was a very beautiful and meaningful event. That was 1991.

[Joanne]

I grew up in New England and we had an interreligious one. It was organized by the ecumenical association of the 3 big churches in my hometown (Catholic, Congregationalist, and Unitarian) and they also invited the rabbi of the closest synagogue and the priest from my mom's Episcopal church in the next town over. I don't know whether or not an invitation was made to the local Mormon temple, but there wasn't a Mormon representative despite there being 2 Mormon kids in my graduating class of 65. All of the speeches were generic rather than referencing a specific faith.

 

The ceremony was held in the school auditorium but participation was totally voluntary. My best friend growing up came from a secular family and did not participate.

 

 

It's a step in the right direction, but I would NOT call that inter*religious!

 

Interdenominational, maybe. Judeo-Christian, perhaps.

[Spy Car]

Ours isn't mandatory, though it is held at the school. The students organize it. I suppose the students could hold an anti-bacc, celebrating non-acheivement, with anti-religious speakers! It would be up to the students.

 

 

Boo, hiss! :glare:

 

Bill

[justasque]

I thought you all might find this article, about a community dealing with a similar situation, interesting. I could only get a strange print version at the link, so I've copied the article below, but I included the link for citation purposes.

http://www.christianity.com/print/525578/

 

Methodist Minister and Rabbi Reconcile Following Baccalaureate Rift

 

Should a rabbi be permitted to speak from a Christian pulpit? Where does a church draw the boundary between "nonsectarian" and "non-Christian"? Thousands in the Atlanta area wrestled with such questions throughout the past week, after a Methodist minister barred a rabbi from giving a baccalaureate address in his church.

 

The Rev. Randy Mickler of Mount Bethel United Methodist Church says he banned Rabbi Steven Lebow of Temple Kol Emeth in Cobb County from speaking directly from the pulpit at Walton High School's baccalaureate service because Lebow's Jewish faith conflicts with Christian doctrine. Mickler says he offered to let Lebow speak from a lectern, but not the pulpit.

 

"He can speak, he just cannot be the sermon giver," Mickler said in a statement to the media. "To have a person who is a nonbeliever of Christ is, in a sense, dishonoring Christ."

 

Walton High School has used Mount Bethel as the baccalaureate site for seven years. But having a "sermon" delivered by a non-Christian man of the cloth was not what Mickler envisioned as leader of the host facility. "Nondenominational," Mickler said in a sermon to his congregation Sunday, does not mean "non-Christian." The controversy arose after the school's baccalaureate committee chose Lebow without Mickler's permission. "This year, as in past years, Mount Bethel was again assured by the Walton High School PTSA that in accordance with that seven year tradition the church would have the final say regarding the primary sermon-giver and would also be involved in the planning of that event," Mickler explained.

 

According to Mickler, on April 18, that agreement was indirectly compromised when it was announced by a Walton student that she had already invited her rabbi to preach the sermon. During the meeting, it was further suggested by some of the students that Mount Bethel should place a shroud over the cross of Christ and refrain from mentioning the name of Jesus during the service.

 

"Some of the students even expressed the view that if the rabbi, a non-believer, could deliver the sermon, then their own faiths, which include Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Wiccan, should also be included. At this point, we suggested that the service be relocated to a neutral facility so that all major religious faiths in the world could be represented," Mickler said.

 

He went on to say he was pleased when Walton High's baccalaureate committee decided to move the May 22 ceremony from Mount Bethel to the Cobb Civic Center. "I offer no apologies for my behavior, nor my faith or the words I've spoken," he added. Nevertheless, he said he "deeply regretted this unnecessary, painful and avoidable incident."

 

What troubled him, he said, was that Buddhists, Hindus and Wiccans were all looking to keep the baccalaureate as inoffensive as possible and were crushing all Christian context. Some, he said, were opposing everything from the name of Christ being spoken in Scripture to the presence of Christian symbols.

 

"When it comes to denying who we are, that's where we draw the line," he said. "This is not anti-Semitic. It's pro-Christ."

 

Mickler's position insulted many in Atlanta's Jewish community and, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, several Jews with a connection to Mount Bethel are cutting ties. Jewish participants in the church's popular sports program are ending their participation. Five coaches have quit and several parents have removed their children from teams.

 

A news conference organized by students at Walton High School Tuesday to dispute Mickler's comments evolved into an impasse between two groups of students, each split in their support. "It's become Methodists versus Jews," said Chris Knowles to the Atlanta JournalConstitution. Knowles, a member of the Walton High baccalaureate committee, added: "There's divisiveness that's unnecessary."

 

Many in Atlanta's faith community agree. Methodist churches have no policy excluding speakers of other faiths, says Bishop Lindsey Davis of the church's North Georgia Conference. Pastors, he said, are given "significant discretion" about who is allowed to speak.

 

"There have been occasions in community services where people of different faiths have spoken together," the bishop says. "Baccalaureates have traditionally had a variety of persons."Baccalaureate services are optional ceremonies for seniors, and the nondenominational event is based on spirituality but not specific religious beliefs, he adds.

 

The two men at the center of the storm agreed to meet Tuesday at the request of Bishop Davis, and in the presence of the Rev. Al Turnell, supervisor of the Atlanta-Marietta District. Turnell issued a statement afterward that expressed cooperation and conciliation, indicating that Lebow and Mickler will work together on a home for Habitat for Humanity. "Both of these men expressed a deep appreciation and respect for each other. Beyond this issue, however, these men are concerned that we acknowledge the pain caused by the events of the last few days, that we acknowledge our inability to heal the brokenness by continuing to blame each other; and that we acknowledge the prominent place of forgiveness and redemption that both of these historic faiths bring to the table."

 

Lebow wrote in a commentary to the Atlanta Journal Constitution Wednesday, "The time has come for the Rev. Randy Mickler and me to publicly acknowledge that we share common goals, a common God and a common Scripture. As a Jew, I believe in the eternal love that God has for all people: African-American and white, Protestant and Catholic, Buddhist and Hindu.

 

"As an American, I believe in acknowledging and respecting honest religious differences. Mickler has every right to structure what goes on in his sanctuary and what may be said from his pulpit ... I firmly believe Mickler is not anti-Semitic.

 

"Now that we have met face to face, in a place unencumbered by rhetoric or distrust, I believe that we will live out the biblical promise of Psalm 133, 'Behold how good and how sweet it is, when brothers can sit together in peace.'"

 

Mickler told his congregation Sunday: "Mount Bethel, I want you to understand, that never would I do anything to embarrass you or our non-Christian friends. I am sorry if there is anything that I have done to add to your frustration or your confusion over the course of the past few days. At no time would I ever want our Jewish friends to feel slighted, hurt or embarrassed. I thank God for our Jewish friends' participation in this church. I would do nothing to cause you to think for a moment that you are not loved or appreciated.

 

"To my Christian friends," he added, "I remind you of the words of John Wesley. When he sent the Methodist minister to America he said simply, 'Preach Christ.' Political correctness was not in his vocabulary."

[Mrs Mungo]

Ours was Judeo-Christian in nature (probably a rabbi, I know we had a Catholic speaker and a Protestant speaker), held in the school auditorium (graduation was not) and was not required. I would say over half of my graduating class attended. I am from a very conservative part of the country and graduated over 20 years ago.

 

However, before my senior year, I *was* required to attend as part of the band.

[Slartibartfast]

I recall my Baccalaureate was interfaith. We had speakers from different religions not just Christian denominations. I recall finding the rabbi's speech to be particularly moving.

 

It was made very clear that attendance was not required I am from an area with a large percentage of conservative Christians.

 

My school was too big for the graduation ceremonies to be held there, they were done at the convention center which had a large arena. Baccalaureate was held in the school auditorium which was pretty good sized.

[Ravin]

Ours, IIRC, was held at one of the large churches in town (probably the First Baptist, though I think it rotated through several of them from year to year). Attendance was definitely not mandatory for anyone. I did not go as I had renounced Christianity earlier my senior year (not that I told my parents that was the reason).

[Slartibartfast]

However, before my senior year, I *was* required to attend as part of the band.

 

 

Oh that is true, Mrs Mungo and I obviously attended the same school. We always had to play in the band but didn't actually have to go for our Senior year. :D I can rip out some awesome graduation tunes on bassoon.

[Crimson Wife]

It's a step in the right direction, but I would NOT call that inter*religious!

 

Interdenominational, maybe. Judeo-Christian, perhaps.

 

 

All the faiths of my classmates were represented with the exception of the 2 Mormons. There were not any Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or Wiccan students in my graduating class (were the Wiccans even around in the early '90's? I didn't ever hear of them until the very late '90's or early 2000's). There probably are some now as the town has quite a bit more Asian-Americans than it did when I was growing up. I should check the paper next month to see who the speakers will be at this year's baccalaureate.

[Slartibartfast]

It's a step in the right direction, but I would NOT call that inter*religious!

 

Interdenominational, maybe. Judeo-Christian, perhaps.

 

 

I would not necessarily consider a Unitarian speaker to be Christian. I know Christians who are Unitarians and Unitarians who are not Christian.

[Elfknitter.#]

I have never heard of Baccalaureate except as International Baccalaureate, which seems very different.

 

 

 

All the faiths of my classmates were represented with the exception of the 2 Mormons. There were not any Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or Wiccan students in my graduating class (were the Wiccans even around in the early '90's? I didn't ever hear of them until the very late '90's or early 2000's). There probably are some now as the town has quite a bit more Asian-Americans than it did when I was growing up. I should check the paper next month to see who the speakers will be at this year's baccalaureate.

 

 

Yes. Wicca was in existence in the 1990s as has Gerald Gardner introduced it to the public in 1954: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca.

[msk]

Ours isn't mandatory, though it is held at the school. The students organize it. I suppose the students could hold an anti-bacc, celebrating non-acheivement, with anti-religious speakers! It would be up to the students.

 

 

Ha! A classmate and I tried a milder version of that at our own baccalaureate (which was not required, was held in the evening in the school auditorium, and had always been "nondenomenational" but very clearly Christian). We were invited (by the school) to be on the organizing committee (with a handful of other students and a couple of teachers), and at our first meeting she and I immediately started brainstorming about exciting speakers to invite from several different religions we had classmates from. I remember feeling happy about creating a ceremony that could include some non-Christian friends who'd assumed they'd be left out.

 

Mysteriously, she and I were NOT invited to any subsequent planning sessions, and our school ended up with the same "nondenominational" Christian event we'd always had. So much for that idea. I assume there are schools where this would work, but mine wasn't one of them, at least not in 1993.

[chiguirre]

Interesting. Thanks. My dd was told that she has to attend baccalaureate in order to be allowed to attend graduation. It was originally going to be held in a church, but I guess there was pushback on that so now it's going to be a "nondenominational" service at the local university's events center. Considering that this is the school that had a mandatory parent meeting run by a pastor on using the Bible to improve your relationship with our child, I'm not holding high hopes that it's going to be a non-religious event. And yes, this is a PUBLIC school.

 

Tara

 

 

Could you ask to include a Buddhist prayer since it's "nondenominational"? Maybe they would realize that they either can't oblige people to attend a religious service that only represents one faith or that they'll have to include all the graduating seniors' faiths?

 

Good luck! That is such a lame situation for your family to be put in, I hope it works out for you.

 

My high school had a baccalaureate, but I didn't go. I think at best they got about half the class to attend.

[AngieW in Texas]

I've never heard of such a thing.

 

There was a big stink at my graduation because the valedictorian was Reform Jewish and it was held on a Friday night. There were several Orthodox Jews in my class and they were not able to attend graduation because it was on the Sabbath and the school board said they weren't allowed to attend another school's graduation in the district either that was on another night because they were choosing to forgo a school event for a religious reason.

 

Apparently our valedictorian gave a rather blistering speech about it at graduation. I didn't attend, but everybody who did said she did a great job.

 

I did go to my BS graduation (under protest), but not to my MS graduation.

[Catherine]

Why did you boo hiss?

 

 

 

Hmmm-maybe because you insulted people who are not of a specifically Christian bent as "anti-bacc, celebrating non-acheivement, with anti-religious speakers!" ??

 

Do you really believe that people who do not subscribe to your brand of Christianity are non-achievers and anti-religious? Because that's cutting out a pretty large segment of the population.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I was out of the country for mine, and I still graduated. So I assume it wasn't mandatory.

[Matryoshka]

I have never heard of Baccalaureate except as International Baccalaureate, which seems very different.

 

 

This, and as the name as what you get in France to attend University (like the Abitur or A-levels). I always thought a Baccalaureate was a kind of educational diploma/certification - how'd it end up as the name for a religious ceremony?? Never heard of this. We just had graduation.

 

ETA: And how can there be a religious ceremony of any kind attached to a public school graduation???

[TravelingChris]

I can't really remember whether we had awards at it. I don't think so but it was so many years ago (32 years ago) that I can't say for sure. I do remember how beautiful the National Cathedral looked in the late afternoon/twilight. I do think that someone mentioned a moment of silence or maybe a prayer for the very recently departed fellow student (we had a senior drown the weekend before the bacallaureate service and graduation). I lived in a conservative area (at that time, not really now). But my memory is not what it used to be and I can't even remember where we had graduation. I think it wasn't at my school but can't think where it actually was. I do know who the speaker was- the at that time Attorney General of VA. Oh now I think I remember- I think we graduated at Constitution Hall- the DAR place in DC. Now I just think it is strange that both our bacallearate service and our graduation was in DC while our school and we all lived in VA.

[Violet Crown]

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of a Baccalaureate (in this sense).

 

Most churches around here have some sort of recognition event for graduating seniors among their congregants. This is especially meaningful in parts of town where the graduation rate is low, and the seniors get to be examples and models to the other kids in their faith communities. This Baccalaureate thing doesn't sound nearly so pleasing.

 

[J-rap]

Our ps has one every year, and it is actually quite nice. I've attended it a few times. It is not mandatory for the students, though most of them attend. The students organize it, but it's held in a neutral gathering place, at a Fine Arts Center. The religious focus is based on the students involved. 95% of the students involved call themselves Christian, so that's usually its main emphasis, though not always. One year there was a girl of the baha'i faith, so that was part of the service. Another year there were several Unitarians in the class, so that was a major theme. In our whole town (which is small), there are two Muslims. I imagine that when they graduate, the Islam faith be incorporated into the service.

 

This never seems to be a problem, even with the conservative Christians. It is all done very respectfully.

[Elfknitter.#]

A public school baccalaureate typically features student and faculty speakers. Some schools have renamed the event a "Day of Reflection," to avoid any religious connotations.

http://youngadults.about.com/od/collegeprep/g/baccalaureate.htm

 

Still doesn't ring a bell for me. We had a Senior Breakfast where awards were given and that was about it. I imagine our local churches has services/ masses/ sermons/ etc. around that time which acknowledged graduating youth. However, there weren't religious oriented functions that were part of any public school function in my school district in CA during the early 1990s.