Article: Female Ivy League Students Have a Duty to Stay in Workforce

[Kathleen in LV]

For anyone thinking of going to Princeton to find a husband, you had better be aware of your "duty" when attending an elite university: http://m.guardiannew...-stay-home-moms

[Mrs Mungo]

No, women have no duty to anything but what they think is best. People have been beating the drum of "owing it to women to stay in the workforce" versus "owing to your family to stay home." Some of us stay home, some of us work, some of us do one then the other, some work and take care of their family. Every family has its own personalities, quirks, needs, situations, lifestyle and a million tiny factors that make people choose one thing or another. I wish people would stop trying to co-opt the personal decisions of others. It is very annoying.

[8filltheheart]

nt.....oops. Clicked on this from the side bar and didn't realize this was on the chat board. Not the place for me. ;)

[LibraryLover]

I am not going to click that. It's an old argument, and I can't believe people are still writing on the topic. It's been done over and over and OVER. Move along, journalists.

[Parrothead]

Lets just throw a bit of gasoline on the mommy wars fire.

[Catwoman]

What women do after college, or at any other time of their lives, is no one else's business but their own.

 

Every couple of years, some idiot comes up with this same old, tired idea and thinks it's something new. :glare:

 

I'm not even going to bother reading the article. It's not even worth the time it takes to click on the link.

[Heather in Neverland]

Nonsense.

[hillfarm]

And journalists have an obligation to be fair, honest and accurate in their reporting. Yet, as we see in this article, that duty is not always fulfilled.

 

What a pile of hogwash. The poor have long been told that it is none of their business what the rich do with their money. Now someone needs to tell the elite that it is none of their business what anyone else does with their education.

[freesia]

This is the line that gets me:

What is not admirable is for her to take a slot at Yale Law School that could have gone to a young woman whose dream is to be in the Senate by age 40 and in the White House by age 50.

 

Again, the assumption that you can do nothing without an elite degree. She states that !/3 of presidents, etc had "elite" degrees. (Some, of course, from the era where you only needed money). What about the other 2/3rds?????? In my math book 2/3 is greater than 1/3.

 

Furthermore, the value of an educated woman is not limited only to the workforce. That is a false view of life. Well educated women impact all facets of society.

 

(But, of course, in my family, many of the woman with "Tier 1" degrees have stayed home with their children so we are obviously a family of selfish slackers! Oh, brother!)

[SarahW]

I think the point of the article is that most people who work top jobs come from tier one schools, and when women go to those schools just to marry a rich man so they can stay home and socialize it is a missed opportunity to shatter glass ceilings.

 

But going to a certain school just to find a husband is nothing new. In my little Christian LAC there were plenty of girls there who attended just because they wanted to become a Pastor's-Wife. They usually had majors in music or elementary ed, and sometimes minored in Bible, so as to increase their contact with potential future spouses.

[TravelingChris]

I went to a Tier 1 school and met my future husband. When I was applying to colleges, and that one accepted me, I thought I would never get married so I certainly wasn't going to get a husband. Neither was he there to get a wife. No matter what some people think, you can plan all you want and things happen that change those plans.

[poppy]

The Guardian is trolling for controvery. Yawn.

[Chris in VA]

I think the point of the article is that most people who work top jobs come from tier one schools, and when women go to those schools just to marry a rich man so they can stay home and socialize it is a missed opportunity to shatter glass ceilings.

 

But going to a certain school just to find a husband is nothing new. In my little Christian LAC there were plenty of girls there who attended just because they wanted to become a Pastor's-Wife. They usually had majors in music or elementary ed, and sometimes minored in Bible, so as to increase their contact with potential future spouses.

 

Your last paragraph makes me feel a bit prickly and defensive, as I majored in Elementary Ed and am a pastor's wife. (Actually, I have a BS in Early and Middle Childhood Education, and am a priest's wife, but I quibble.) Met my hubby before college, tho, and we didn't attend the same uni. I want to ask if you interviewed plenty of girls to find out that was their only motivation for going to college...

 

But I won't.

 

And ITA that educated women bring great value to society when they stay home to raise children, as well as when they "shatter glass ceilings." People forget that all the time.

 

That said, I'm at the point where I've heard the argument made in the article so often it is tiresome.

[catz]

 

Furthermore, the value of an educated woman is not limited only to the workforce. That is a false view of life. Well educated women impact all facets of society.

 

 

Could not agree more. Highly educated parents tend to have highly educated kids and also tend to be involved heavily in their communities. For example, I have 2 BS degrees from a competitive tech school. I have donated time to doing web sites and computer work for non-profits. Somehow that feels higher impact than when I was running the rat race in a corporate world. There's not one way to use an education well.

 

 

The Guardian is trolling for controvery. Yawn.

 

Yes - exactly. Written exactly like someone who hasn't had kids.

[SarahW]

 

Your last paragraph makes me feel a bit prickly and defensive, as I majored in Elementary Ed and am a pastor's wife. (Actually, I have a BS in Early and Middle Childhood Education, and am a priest's wife, but I quibble.) Met my hubby before college, tho, and we didn't attend the same uni. I want to ask if you interviewed plenty of girls to find out that was their only motivation for going to college...

 

 

Yes, it was their motivation for going to college, and picking the college where the "right" sort of future-pastors would attend. They said so.

 

My friends and I just found it rather odd. I mean, setting your sights on a particular profession was one thing, but it's weird when that profession is contingent upon matrimony.

 

I suppose some of the future-pastors expected to date that sort of girl. Some guys in my Theology 2 would chat me up until they realized that I was in that class because I wanted to do graduate studies, then they quickly disappeared. See ya! ^_^

 

And, fwiw, one of my friends in college, when I complained about this, commented "I think you should be a pastor's wife." That made me plenty mad. But, what do you know, ten years later and I'm a priest's wife! So no, I don't think every pastor/priest's wife went to college to get her Mrs. Pastor degree. B)

[Mrs Mungo]

I think the point of the article is that most people who work top jobs come from tier one schools, and when women go to those schools just to marry a rich man so they can stay home and socialize it is a missed opportunity to shatter glass ceilings.

 

This is a false dichotomy. Again, it assumes that a career is the only reason to go to school. It is not. I know many highly degreed women who teach their kids, who teach co-op classes, who do extensive volunteer work, who write books or start their own companies instead of following a traditional Fortune 500 path. Educated women are value added to society in those settings every bit as much as they are value added to the traditional workforce.

[Orthodox6]

I was graduated from one of the Top Ten universities. I did not go there for a husband, but because I was awarded a mammoth scholarship. My future spouse attended a lesser-tier university. I left the workforce for multiple reasons. This article is HOOEY! Anybody else notice the arrogance and ignorance bursting from between-the-lines? -- the implication that only selected academic fields matter? I doubt the author would consider the humanities valuable, for example.

 

Truth, however, forces me to remark that I knew more than one girl who studied in the medical school library, in blatant hope of snagging a future physician as her husband. My roommate succeeded with that plot.

[trinchick]

I went to a well-regarded private college so that I would have more choices in life.

 

I did end up meeting my husband there, and I have chosen to remain in the workforce after having children - not because it is right for my fellow woman-kind, but because it is right for my family.

 

I am grateful that my decisions earlier in life (studying in high school and then attending a selective college) have resulted in better options for my current and future life. I am working because I want to (not because I need to) in a career that I enjoy (most days...). I can't guarantee that these options would have been available to me if I had opted for a different educational experience.

[Miss Mousie]

This is the line that gets me:

What is not admirable is for her to take a slot at Yale Law School that could have gone to a young woman whose dream is to be in the Senate by age 40 and in the White House by age 50.

 

 

 

That’s crazy-talk!

 

The suggestion is that a person’s stated “dream†somehow affects admission committees, and thus that a less-qualified person who says she’s aiming for Congress should trump the more-qualified person who says “I’ll decide what I want to do with the education only when I have it.â€

 

“Taking a slot.†Preposterous!

[MFG]

This is the line that gets me:

What is not admirable is for her to take a slot at Yale Law School that could have gone to a young woman whose dream is to be in the Senate by age 40 and in the White House by age 50.

 

 

If the poor dear could not beat out some gold digger for a law school slot, what proof is there that she could have won a bare knuckles political campaign?

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

If the poor dear could not beat out some gold digger for a law school slot, what proof is there that she could have won a bare knuckles political campaign?

 

 

Amen, sister. The whole thing comes across as bratty sour grapes. If you want into an Ivy, then you should earn that slot.

[VeritasMama]

No, women have no duty to anything but what they think is best. People have been beating the drum of "owing it to women to stay in the workforce" versus "owing to your family to stay home." Some of us stay home, some of us work, some of us do one then the other, some work and take care of their family. Every family has its own personalities, quirks, needs, situations, lifestyle and a million tiny factors that make people choose one thing or another. I wish people would stop trying to co-opt the personal decisions of others. It is very annoying.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, the older generation of career women in my family think I am selling out my inheritance they fought so hard to give me, because I chose to give up my teaching career and stay home. They don't understand it, they think I am taking women backwards, blah blah blah. I thought women's lib was about choice, but apparently raising and/or educating your own children is not the right choice...

[armymomma]

Well, I didn't go to med school planning to be a slacker or a breeder or you fill in the blank. I certainly didn't go to meet a doctor, many easier ways to do that! I don't need to justify my choices to anyone. Maybe she should be glad some of us smart girls are home raising gaggles of kids. Somehow I think she would have a problem with that too. Some people are never happy.

 

 

 

 

[Impish]

I don't have a duty to anyone but myself, my dh, and my kids. I don't 'owe' anyone control over my choices.

[Parrothead]

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly, the older generation of career women in my family think I am selling out my inheritance they fought so hard to give me, because I chose to give up my teaching career and stay home. They don't understand it, they think I am taking women backwards, blah blah blah. I thought women's lib was about choice, but apparently raising and/or educating your own children is not the right choice...

 

 

I get this a lot from my mother. *sigh*

[dangermom]

It's interesting that she wants to ask women what their plans are with that fancy degree. Because, sure, your plans when you're 18 will stay the same, even when you're 27 and have a couple of kids and realize that the world and your life are not at all what you thought they would be! How many 18yo girls would say "Oh yes, I plan to stay home with my kids after law school"? I think relatively few. Instead, a lot of women who have been ambitious and hard-working their whole lives realize, once they have kids, that they want to stay home with those kids for a while. And that does not actually ruin your life, or even terminate your career for good. Those same women who decide to stay home for some years do not stay at home once the kids are grown--how many women without kids at home do not work? Are they under 60? I bet not.

 

I could say lots more but you all know it already, so why bother? :)

 

OK, just one more thing. That you all know. Why on earth would anyone say that a lot of education is wasted if you are a SAHM? Don't people know that the mother's educational level is what almost always has the largest influence on the children's education? It's not the dad's education that determines that; children follow their mother's educational pattern. There are a zillion reasons why a woman's education is not "wasted" should she decide to raise her children full-time, but everyone seems to miss that really obvious and important one.

[GTJo1996]

"Oh no! She didn't!" is all I can think after reading that article. Oh my!

[Mom-ninja.]

"....the next frontier of the admissions should revolve around asking people to declare what they actually plan to do with their degrees."

 

That quote right there ticks me off. As if one can tell what life is going to be. As if one can actually "plan" life. As if life is actually going to pan out step by step as one imagines. Good grief. What a ridiculous notion.

 

When I was in college I had every intention of going to grad school and having a career. Then I had a baby. I had no idea how that would change me and my "plans."

 

Oh, and I'll say that I agree with Ms. Patton and say that college is a great place to find a spouse. That doesn't mean that is the sole reason for going to college, but along with getting a degree why not take advantage of so many intellectuals in one place? There's nothing wrong with that. If a woman wants to get married she should find a good man. She's choosing someone (hopefully) for life. Her choice should be a good one. That doesn't mean this man has to be found in college of course. But college is a good place to start looking.

 

Sore subject for me considering I'm not doing "my duty" by using my degree, and I have people close to me regretting the decision of their choice of spouse.

[ErinE]

I was accepted to a top-tier university, but opted to forgo it for a large state university which, through scholarships, paid for my schooling. I thought I had my life planned out at 18 when I went to college. My career path was clear when I met my future husband. I knew I was going back to work full-time when I became pregnant with my first born.

 

Then I had a child and my entire outlook changed.

 

Life happens and you adjust. My life now is far different from where I imagined it would be many years ago. I don't consider that a bad thing.

 

I know men who started businesses to work around their wives' corporate careers. I know women who work part-time to get out of the house, but be available for their children after school. I'm friends with many couples who both work full-time. Families come in all colors, creeds, s*xes, and sizes. I support anyone who does his or her best to meet the family's needs.

[MFG]

Is it a bad thing that I would *love* to read the "deranged sorority girl" response to this article???

[happymomofboys]

No, women have no duty to anything but what they think is best. People have been beating the drum of "owing it to women to stay in the workforce" versus "owing to your family to stay home." Some of us stay home, some of us work, some of us do one then the other, some work and take care of their family. Every family has its own personalities, quirks, needs, situations, lifestyle and a million tiny factors that make people choose one thing or another. I wish people would stop trying to co-opt the personal decisions of others. It is very annoying.

 

 

Yep, how about "women owe it to themselves to do what makes them happy and fulfilled in life?" For some, that's going to be shattering glass ceilings. For some, it's going to be raising a family. For some, it will be touring the world. For some, it will be devoting their lives to healthcare, teaching, missions work, etc. There is no single right answer for all women of any educational background.

[Alice]

-

 

Truth, however, forces me to remark that I knew more than one girl who studied in the medical school library, in blatant hope of snagging a future physician as her husband. My roommate succeeded with that plot.

 

 

When I was in medical school, my roommate’s boyfriend (not in med school) had a bunch of friends who tried to get me and my roommate to coach them on how to sound “medically†(their word) so they could pick up girls in bars. They assured us that pretending to be medical students was a surefire way to get women to go out with them but they wanted more details to make themselves sound more plausible. We refused to their utter disappointment. We also figured any girls stupid enough to fall for it probably deserved them since most of the real medical students were off studying somewhere or in the hospital working.

 

If the poor dear could not beat out some gold digger for a law school slot, what proof is there that she could have won a bare knuckles political campaign?

 

 

Ha!

[briansmama]

This premise makes no sense- the research shows that children benefit greatly by being raised by educated parents, so why isn't that considered a valuable post-Ivy-League contribution?

 

This is in no way meant to offend parents who didn't go to college- I think "education" can happen outside of schools as well. I hope that's obvious, since this is a homeschooling forum :)

[LucyStoner]

Same old BS repackaged.