Do you have Super Bowl traditions & how would you handle this situation?

[Sherri in MI]

Our family (me, dh, & 14 yo ds) has a tradition of watching the SuperBowl together with special munchies. We're not super football fans or anything, but we do enjoy watching the Super Bowl together. Super casual, but it's a tradition we enjoy and it's important to us, but not as important as Easter or Christmas or anything.

 

This year a friend invited ds to watch it with him along with a couple of other friends. The friend has 3 sisters who aren't interested and his father is out of town.

 

Anyway, I would prefer ds to stay home with us - I will miss him if he goes - but I'm okay with him going to his friends for the Super Bowl. He said he just wants to do it this one time. Dh however is strongly against it & I feel he's making a bigger deal out of it than it is and bringing way too much emotion to the situation. However, I do feel there is no right or wrong in the situation. Letting ds go is okay. Telling ds we'd rather he didn't is okay too.

 

Keep in mind ds is very compliant and good. He's not perfect, but is generally a good boy. And we are together, usually just the 3 of us all the holidays. We have spent the last 3 Thanksgivings at a friend's house together.

 

I have 2 questions: the first is, how do you handle traditions & situations like this with your family?

 

My second question is related to what ds said to me about the situation, so here are the various things he said (I mostly listened attentively while he did most of the talking):

 

"You're probably okay with it. I gave up going over my friend's house for the Super Bowl a couple of years ago because it was important to you. We have to teach him to respect us and our traditions and I don't think he should go for that reason If we don't teach him that, you're going to be very lonely when you're an old woman and I've passed away, he won't come visit you. When I was a teenager, my parents let me go out with my friends all the time and as a result I didn't want to be with them & when my father was dying I went out to a movie with my friends. I wasn't even there & I think it's because they didn't teach me to respect family time. I see elderly people every day whose children never visit them and they live nearby and it's because the parents didn't teach them to respect them. He should be with his family, not his friends who won't even be in his life in a few years. Train up your child in the way he should go...You never respect my opinion. That goes way back to the beginning of our marriage and is why we have arguements. He quoted another verse, but I don't remember. You know it's not fair now - I can't win. If I say no then I am the bad guy" I'm leaving a lot out - I can't remember everything. I didn't say much, he didn't really let me, but I did mention I thought he was bringing a lot to the issue that didn't fit the situation.

 

I said not agreeing isn't the same as being disrespectful. When I asked what respecting his opinion looked like, he said I should say, "Do whatever you want honey because you are head of the household."

 

I felt a little overwhelmed and beat up and reluctant to share my thoughts since they differed from his somewhat.

 

What are your responses to what my husband said about the issue?

[Brilliant]

 

What are your responses to what my husband said about the issue?

 

 

I think he's being manipulative.

 

It's the Super Bowl, not your 25th anniversary that ds wants to miss. He's 14 and wants to spend some time with his friends. It is healthy.

[Abeille]

When I asked what respecting his opinion looked like, he said I should say, "Do whatever you want honey because you are head of the household."

 

 

I'm trying to say this very gently. That's not respecting his opinion - that's blind obedience. And to me, that's not what a healthy marriage looks like whether you believe in having the man as head of household or not.

 

About the Superbowl thing, if it was that important to my dh I would have probably sided with him. But I think his level of upset seems like it's not about the Superbowl tradition at all. If it were up to me though, I'd let ds go spend time with his friends.

[Lisa R.]

There is way more going on than the Superbowl here.

 

Your 14 year old ds wants to go spend time with his friends. He wants to go watch the Superbowl at someone's house. Perfectly normal and acceptable for that age. I feel bad for your ds that this is such a big deal.

 

Haven't we read post after post on this forum about parents or in laws insisting that grown children not only visit but visit on the parents' terms? Remember all these posters giving detailed explanations on the burden of those expectations and the resentment that often comes with that? Ironically, I've often found that the parents that don't heap on the expectations, that give space, that respect grown children's wishes, often get more visits as people will naturally have a desire to socialize with those that want our best interests. The ones that have high expectations, that demand that certain traditions be followed equals stress and often grown children will find excuses or other plans to avoid the strife.

 

The third issue, which is far more concerning, is the attitude your dh is giving. I'm not giving marriage advice. But I'd get some from somewhere.

[LucyStoner]

It's the Superbowl. Not a national or religious holiday. Watching sports with friends seems to be a healthy activity. I would let my son go. We don't watch the Superbowl or football in general, I didn't know tomorrow was the day till I saw "last chance to stock up for your Superbowl Sunday" signs next to the cheese trays at the store today.

 

As for your husband's perspective, well I will just say that respect does not equal absolute obedience. And that people worthy of respect generally don't have to demand it with manipulation (likening it to selfish choices he made and regrets) and intimidation (blaming you for all arguments, not letting you speak.)

[Word Nerd]

I think your DH has a different definition of respect than the usual one. I don't think it's disrespectful to disagree with an opinion or to hang out with friends during the Super Bowl.

 

Could DS go for one half?

[Orthodox6]

Q-1: Ours is a family which would not rank any sports event as a big deal. We draw the line, instead, at events such as Christmas, Easter, etc. for pre-college children. Now that our eldest is married, we are careful to encourage him and his wife to chart their own course for balancing the traditions and preferences of each of their families. (They have done a great job for these 2-1/2 years!) So long as the friends are "good kids", and nothing out-of-line is likely to happen (drugs/drinking/etc.), I'd rejoice that he has good peer relationships!

 

Q-2: It is possible that your dh slipped out the real answer when he spoke of going off to a movie when his father was dying. This might indicate a long-held guilt trip. Of course I know neither of you. This is just what occurs to me when reading your summary of his talk with you. I also am not comfortable with other things he reportedly said; however, it is not my place to comment more. I maybe should have skipped Q-2 completely for that reason.

[JFSinIL]

Could your son invite his buddies to come over and watch the game with you guys? I do pity whomever ends up your daughter-in-law some day, if your husband's attitude doesn't mellow a bit.

[Pippen]

At age 14 it's very typical for teens to want to be with their friends for events like this--for him it's part of the process of growing up and I'd let him go in a heartbeat as long as I was fine with the family.

 

For us as parents, it's a chance to demonstrate what we'll need in increasing amounts as kids move through the teen years into adulthood: flexibility, good problem solving skills, and gradual letting go as their world extends beyond ours.

[MooCow]

Does your husband FEEL respected by you in your marriage?

 

I have learned (the hard way :crying: ) that for a long, long time,

my dh did not feel respected by me. That is the number one thing

my dh needs from me. It's not about power, and having the last

say; it's about commitment and trust.

 

It blew up in my face over a minor thing. I suggest you and he

have a serious talk about what you each need from one another. :grouphug:

[Farrar]

Could your son invite his buddies to come over and watch the game with you guys?

 

That seemed like the obvious solution, at least potentially, to me too.

 

I agree with others that respect does not equal obedience and that his statements were manipulative, especially implying that your actions were going to leave you old and alone. And in case you bought into it at all, I would say that fostering a healthy respectful relationship with your ds, including respecting his teenage need to hang with his friends is a lot more likely to lead to him staying involved and close as an adult.

[Sherri in MI]

I want to "like" everyone's post but fear that would be overkill!

 

 

I agree with everyone's replies so far on both issues. Just wanted to make sure I'm not crazy. I will miss ds but I want him to be able to spend time with friends especially since he doesn't get too often - we homeschool, he's an only child & we live in a rural area with his friends scattered all over. Was feeling dh was putting way too much on this one day, but was okay with him deciding. Did not want him to lay an undeserved guilt trip on ds though. "Geez! let him go already!" I was thinking. I was also thinking I'd rather ds wanted to be with us rather than that he is forced or guilted into it.

 

I did intend to support dh whichever way he decided, but I was hoping he would say yes and I did give my opinion. Yes dh does have guilt. And he did bring a lot other stuff to the issue. At the same time we are both going through the gradually letting go blues! I did mention to him that the issues he brought up didn't really seem to be relevant to the situation.

 

I'm not home right now. DS just texted me and said dh said he could go! Happy for ds!

[Starr]

It's hard to give up special family times. :grouphug: Since no one at the other house except the boys want to watch the game why don't they all come to your house.?

[Sherri in MI]

Does your husband FEEL respected by you in your marriage?

 

I have learned (the hard way :crying: ) that for a long, long time,

my dh did not feel respected by me. That is the number one thing

my dh needs from me. It's not about power, and having the last

say; it's about commitment and trust.

 

It blew up in my face over a minor thing. I suggest you and he

have a serious talk about what you each need from one another. :grouphug:

 

 

INo, he only feels respected if I am utterly, totally passive and agree with him on anything and everything and have no needs. He has been emotionally draining, verbally & economically abusive, controlling, isolating and spiteful and takes his anger out on me, no matter how "respectful" I was. Which is why I asked for opinions. I wanted to make sure I wasn't just knee jerk reacting or seeing control where there wasn't any. I have asked him to seek help for his anger issues. He has to some extent, and has mellowed a few degrees but still holds much of the same extreme ideas that feed his anger.

[MooCow]

 

 

INo, he only feels respected if I am utterly, totally passive and agree with him on anything and everything and have no needs. He has been emotionally draining, verbally & economically abusive, controlling, isolating and spiteful and takes his anger out on me, no matter how "respectful" I was. Which is why I asked for opinions. I wanted to make sure I wasn't just knee jerk reacting or seeing control where there wasn't any. I have asked him to seek help for his anger issues. He has to some extent, and has mellowed a few degrees but still holds much of the same extreme ideas that feed his anger.

 

 

Ah........I'm sorry :grouphug:

[justamouse]

This is not Christmas or Easter...this is the Superbowl.

 

Have the kids over to your house.

 

AS for the backstory with you and your DH, don't let the kid be sucked into this as a pawn.

[Eagle]

Maybe you could plan a fun family event in the near future. Maybe a movie marathon? Have the same special munchies as you normally would have for the Superbowl.

 

I'm glad your ds is allowed to go to the party with his friends.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

This is not Christmas or Easter...this is the Superbowl.

 

Have the kids over to your house.

 

AS for the backstory with you and your DH, don't let the kid be sucked into this as a pawn.

 

The problem is, it's the other person who brings the kid in as a pawn. It only takes one person to do that.

 

(edited to put it in more general terms)

[jhschool]

It's the Superbowl. Not a national or religious holiday. Watching sports with friends seems to be a healthy activity. I would let my son go. We don't watch the Superbowl or football in general, I didn't know tomorrow was the day till I saw "last chance to stock up for your Superbowl Sunday" signs next to the cheese trays at the store today.

 

As for your husband's perspective, well I will just say that respect does not equal absolute obedience. And that people worthy of respect generally don't have to demand it with manipulation (likening it to selfish choices he made and regrets) and intimidation (blaming you for all arguments, not letting you speak.)

 

 

My thoughts exactly. :iagree:

[Rebecca VA]

I would let him go and send a homemade treat for the boys to eat. That way, he will have a reminder of home.

[DawnM]

Your DH isn't dying is he?

 

You can still instill respect in your ds without making him stay with you 100% of the time.

 

My kids are homeschooled, they have far fewer opportunities to do things socially than their schooled counterparts. Most of our friends' kids are the same and very respectful and loving to their families. THAT is what will speak to them far greater than us insisting that they are with us all the time. In fact, I worry that saying no to him all the time will just push him further away.

 

He is 14. It is time to let him do a few things on his own.

 

Dawn

[Chris in VA]

I'm sorry you have to deal with such hard stuff.

 

Gently, I'd say pls, for your own sanity and happiness, and also to provide an example of a healthy marriage to your son while you still can, strive for change by getting some help. If dh won't go, go yourself.

 

Tons of hugs--he sounds like he has a lot of work to do, and if you've lived with emotional abuse, you do, too.

 

Be brave.

[Harriet Vane]

I find your husband inappropriate. Your ds' desire is normal and age-appropriate and honestly, this is just not that big a deal. I also think it's both illogical and utterly inappropriate to compare watching the Superbowl with friends to blowing off a dying parent or abandoning you in your old age. That's an overreaction.

[J-rap]

I'm glad your son can go. I agree with others that the Super Bowl isn't as important as Christmas and Easter. Perhaps the three of you can plan something else special together in lieu of it.

 

It sounds like your husband is from a dysfunctional family, is trying to make up for it, but is doing so incorrectly. He thinks he is compensating for what he didn't have by being controlling. Lots of issues there.

 

As your son gets more into his teens, situations like the Super Bowl will come up more and more often. Your husband's behavior has the potential to drive your son away -- the exact opposite of what he is trying to do. I wish your husband could get the help he needs to handle his own past in a way that benefits his family, not hurt it.

 

I'm sorry. It must be very difficult at times.

[MedicMom]

 

 

 

INo, he only feels respected if I am utterly, totally passive and agree with him on anything and everything and have no needs. He has been emotionally draining, verbally & economically abusive, controlling, isolating and spiteful and takes his anger out on me, no matter how "respectful" I was. Which is why I asked for opinions. I wanted to make sure I wasn't just knee jerk reacting or seeing control where there wasn't any. I have asked him to seek help for his anger issues. He has to some extent, and has mellowed a few degrees but still holds much of the same extreme ideas that feed his anger.

 

Well then, this is the real issue.

You are going to have to decide how to deal with it, and it absolutely has to be dealt with. This is not representative of the biblical submission model, if that is what you believe in.

 

Frankly you will wind up losing your son if these attitudes continue. If for no other reason than future DIL is not going to want him to attend family functions due to the level of manipulation.

[QueenCat]

As your son gets more into his teens, situations like the Super Bowl will come up more and more often. Your husband's behavior has the potential to drive your son away -- the exact opposite of what he is trying to do.

 

 

Exactly. It is normal for teens to spend time away from the parents for events like this....

[GinaPagnato]

Well, the issue is not where ds should spend the Super Bowl. The issue is youd dh's jacked-up view of submission and respect. "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER." Ring a bell here?

 

Your dh has anger issues, as you know, and needs some help and accountability to work through these areas that cause him fear, anxiety, and guilt. He is lashing out at you from a place of deep woundedness that likely stems from his childhood. I would find a pastor or therapist who is well-trained in these issues, and insist that you go together initially. A good therapist will then ask to work one-on-one with your dh to help him deal with these issues. DO NOT seek help from someone who says that the solution to these conflicts is for you to listen and agree with everything your dh says.

 

This is hard, as I know very well. But, you can and must do it. I will pray for you to be strong and clear in your thinking and speech. But, definitely bring in someone else so they can provide a voice that your dh will hopefully listen to. This type of exposure can work wonders.

[SailorMom]

I'm glad you DH told your DS he could go - but I have a feeling he made a huge deal out of it to begin with and will now hold it over your DS's head.

I am amazed he compared it to a parent dying..... wow. And to tell you that you'll regret it when you're old and DS doesn't visit???

Here's the deal - DH will make DS resent you both for this kind of control and manipulation. He will look to you to moderate your DH's attitudes and if you don't - he'll probably blame you as much as he does your DH as he gets older.

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom - but the sooner you start setting healthy boundaries and helping your son set them the better.

[Trish]

 

 

INo, he only feels respected if I am utterly, totally passive and agree with him on anything and everything and have no needs. He has been emotionally draining, verbally & economically abusive, controlling, isolating and spiteful and takes his anger out on me, no matter how "respectful" I was. Which is why I asked for opinions. I wanted to make sure I wasn't just knee jerk reacting or seeing control where there wasn't any. I have asked him to seek help for his anger issues. He has to some extent, and has mellowed a few degrees but still holds much of the same extreme ideas that feed his anger.

 

Kinda getting out of the realm of where people on a message board can help. I'm thrilled, though, that your DH said DS could watch the game with his friend. My 13-year-old is doing the same. We'll miss him, but we're glad he's hving a good time with his buddy. And we do expect him to be at all important family events but we can't justify the superbowl as being one of those. Giving your kids age-appropriate freedom does not mean they won't be at your deathbed!

[kalanamak]

 

 

Your dh has anger issues, as you know, and needs some help and accountability to work through these areas that cause him fear, anxiety, and guilt. He is lashing out at you from a place of deep woundedness that likely stems from his childhood. I would find a pastor or therapist who is well-trained in these issues, and insist that you go together initially. A good therapist will then ask to work one-on-one with your dh to help him deal with these issues. DO NOT seek help from someone who says that the solution to these conflicts is for you to listen and agree with everything your dh says.

 

 

 

I think this behavior can be learned and genetic, too, rather than "deep woundedness". Many DV and anger management counselors work on a model of "why do I keep having problems at work and home and what can I do to change this". Group classes where men discuss their mis-steps and think together on how they can do better next time, IMO, can be much more useful than psychotherapy.

[8circles]

Wow. I say this really gently, but I think this has nothing at all to do with the Superbowl or even your DS. Please seek marital help or at least therapy for yourself if your DH refuses, to help you cope with your situation.

 

His monologue in the OP was so irrational. It truly made no sense. I'm so sorry. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[NotSoObvious]

I know that there are marriages where the expectation is submissiveness from the wife, but that is so far from my reality, it's hard to even know where you are coming from. If you were my friend and you told me your husband said that, I'd encourage you to get counseling. Or leave.

I'm sorry and I hope it's not as bad as it sounds (I know it rarely is...)

 

I think either way is fine for the Super Bowl, but if the family time is important, make him stay home.

[Joanne]

Your dh has anger issues, as you know, and needs some help and accountability to work through these areas that cause him fear, anxiety, and guilt. He is lashing out at you from a place of deep woundedness that likely stems from his childhood. I would find a pastor or therapist who is well-trained in these issues, and insist that you go together initially. A good therapist will then ask to work one-on-one with your dh to help him deal with these issues. DO NOT seek help from someone who says that the solution to these conflicts is for you to listen and agree with everything your dh says.

 

 

Given the OP's admitted history that a power, control, and abuse dynamic exists, marital therapy is contra indicated.

 

OP, the thinking behind the content of your DH's reasoning speaks to a personality type that often comes with an abusive (read: controlling) personality. People who have this type of thinking will not get better without intervention, accountability, and continued vigilence.

 

Please seek professional support for yourself with a person skilled in the abuse dynamic and the PTSD that results from living it.

[GinaPagnato]

 

I think this behavior can be learned and genetic, too, rather than "deep woundedness". Many DV and anger management counselors work on a model of "why do I keep having problems at work and home and what can I do to change this". Group classes where men discuss their mis-steps and think together on how they can do better next time, IMO, can be much more useful than psychotherapy.

 

 

 

This is a great point.

[GinaPagnato]

Given the OP's admitted history that a power, control, and abuse dynamic exists, marital therapy is contra indicated.

 

OP, the thinking behind the content of your DH's reasoning speaks to a personality type that often comes with an abusive (read: controlling) personality. People who have this type of thinking will not get better without intervention, accountability, and continued vigilence.

 

Please seek professional support for yourself with a person skilled in the abuse dynamic and the PTSD that results from living it.

 

 

 

Right, which is why I said in my post that they should go together "initially" with the idea that a good counselor will be able to see the problematic dynamics and ask to start working with her dh one-on-one. Many people who reject getting counseling for themselves will often consider it if it's looked at as, "We have a problem and we need help. Let's go together."

[LucyStoner]

Be very aware that your son is learning how to be a man, a husband and a father from the model being set by his dad. Get help for him if you won't do it for yourself.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

Right, which is why I said in my post that they should go together "initially" with the idea that a good counselor will be able to see the problematic dynamics and ask to start working with her dh one-on-one. Many people who reject getting counseling for themselves will often consider it if it's looked at as, "We have a problem and we need help. Let's go together."

 

 

Unfortunately, it is also quite common for those living with abuse to be made to feel they have to fix themselves and the abuser by less than appropriate counselors. Finding a good counselor is not a given.

 

Abusers do not necessarily present that way to even skilled counselors. Many are quite adept at saying all the right things in front of others.

 

When exploring marriage counseling while married to someone abusive, proceed with caution. Anger classes, support groups and other options should be explored by people with anger issues and controlling mindsets. Don't get swept into thinking this is a 50-50 problem by a mediocre counselor.