Unacceptable music

[Haiku]

There is a disagreement in our home about acceptable music for teenagers to listen to. One of the parents feels that the word "n*gga" is ubiquitous in a popular style of teenage music and not worth trying to avoid/have child avoid (losing battle argument). The other parent feels that it's our home and we get to set the standard for what is or is not acceptable therein (my house, my rules argument). During an argument about it, one of the parents was accused of being an old fogey.

 

Opinions?

 

Tara

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds listens to Christian rap. No use of the n word in an form or variety. (That word would be a deal breaker for me.)

[besroma]

Not an old fogey. Unacceptable in our home.

[GWOB]

At the ripe old age of 32, I too am an old fogey. Music that contains lyrics with the n-word is not allowed in this house. Period.

[Anne in CA]

Beyond unacceptable here. Our policy is that a teen may listen to any music that I don't pay for on their headphones and have privacy, but music played out loud for everyone may not contain ANY form of profanity. And yes, that word IS profanity.

[eternalknot]

I agree that the parents get to set the standard for the home, and for what will and won't be tolerated. I'm not a fan of the "my house, my rules" argument when it's an unreasonable "because I said so" thing. I do support it in terms of moral or ethical concerns, which this appears to be.

 

We haven't yet restricted any music for words or terms. Most of our music has warnings for explicit lyrics. We don't sing those words if the kids are around, but we don't censor them otherwise. Not true, I guess we used to turn the music down at certain spots in some songs when they were little little (under 5) if we listened to them at all in front of the kids. Mostly we saved certain bands for when the kids weren't around.

 

I don't contraband music with that word in my home just because of that word. What matters to me is more whether or not it was a culturally appropriated use of the word - if so, I allow it. I'd guess this is true of the music your kid wants. I suggest they limit who/when they listen to or share it, in terms of younger siblings or friends whose parents have different values. I think we own some responsibility in that regard. This is true of various genres and use of other inflammatory words, too.

 

Part of this is because we didn't know what words were bad when we moved to the US, so my parents let us listen to anything LOL.

[LibraryLover]

I think I would tell the child (guessing you're talking about the 18 yr old?) that I don't want to hear it. If she does, she needs to put in ear buds, or wear headphones.

 

For a younger child, I would say no, but at 18 I would just make sure the siblings, nor I, was subjected to it.

 

Another thought is that the teen in question is of color...;) I would say leave it, and choose another battle. You don't know what she might be trying to figure out/connect. I am not at all a fan of that type of music, so I am not an apologist for it, only a realist. To the teen, I would absolutely state why I don't like it. I'm never quiet with my opinions. :)

Edited November 11, 2012 by LibraryLover

[regentrude]

Unacceptable to play in my hearing - but honestly, I do not have the desire or time to policy my children's music collections and listen to every song to find out whether it is acceptable or not. Usually they use headphones, so I really have no clue what they are listening to, beyond the snippets they share, and I do not find it realistic to pre-listen to all the music they acquire. I just have to trust them, and from our conversations I judge that they find the same things objectionable I do.

[MAIMOM]

Broken window theory here.

 

Language, clothing, and tunes must be appropriate.

 

If the video game has bad language, it needs to be muted.

 

Curious what "broken window theory" is?

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Thankfully, my kids don't know about that kind of music, yet, but when/if the time comes, there will be no music with n-word, ho, b!tch, etc. It just doesn't sit well with me. And there's no way dh would tolerate it, either.

[Haiku]

I do not find it realistic to pre-listen to all the music they acquire.

 

I don't, either. I do, however, feel that since we pay for the internet, and the child in question (yes, 18), listens to Pandora on our internet, and the musicians/music companies make money whenever a Pandora song is played, we have the right to say, "Not on our dime."

 

I'll come out now and state that I am the old fogey in this situation.

 

I also sent my dd a text (since she's currently not speaking to me because of this) and asked her whether, when her brother is a teenager, she would want him to think of himself as a "n*gga." I told her she didn't have to answer me but that I would like her to at least consider the question.

 

Tara

[Mergath]

For me, it would depend on the music. If it's one time, in one song, I'd probably just roll my eyes and let it go, but if it's music by an artist that says it every fifteen seconds, I'd have a problem with it. The same would go for any offensive language.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Wanted to add: I am not prude or fogey in any way. I like some funky music with some raunchy lyrics. I just don't like music that refers to people in derogatory terms. I wouldn't allow it on my dime, either.

[acablue]

The teenagers in this house (15 and 17) almost always use headphones to listen to their music and are free to listen to whatever they like. Anything that gets played out loud has to be appropriate for 4-year-olds and old fogeys.

[Bang!Zoom!]

In our house, the main rule is it takes two yes'es to equal a go. If one says no, and one says yes, that's a definite no.

 

I'm personally okay with urban rap/Lil Wayne, what have you - but.. I think if there were a poll in the house of the adults, I'd get shot down and there'd be two opinions on it.

 

It probably doesn't bother me because of exposure of some cultural stuff, it's not slang'ed the same way as a generation ago so much. It can mean, in contextual use, musically..something more closely related to a close knit community who stick together (if that makes any sense).

 

Just depends on who's throwing it around and how it is intended.

[Laurie4b]

We don't police our kids' music. However, I don't have to hear it, either, as they play it on their i-pods and use headphones. So I don't know if they listen to that or not.

 

Ironically, to ban the n-word in music is to ban a lot of African-American music that is using the word in a different way. If my kids were listening to that, I trust they could tell the difference. I wouldn't listen to it .

[acurtis75]

I agree that you shouldn't have to hear it in your house. I wouldn't restrict and

an 18 year old from listening in their headphones.

 

This thread reminded me of a rule my mother-in-law made when dh was a teenager. He was not allowed to listen to any rap music in the house on Sunday. Inappropriate lyrics weren't an issue because she wouldn't have gone for that at any time but we always were amused by the Sunday rules.:lol:

[LibraryLover]

 

I'll come out now and state that I am the old fogey in this situation.

 

 

Tara

 

 

Really? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked! ;)

 

As long as you or the littles can't hear it, I would let it go. For your own sanity.

[LibraryLover]

We don't police our kids' music. However, I don't have to hear it, either, as they play it on their i-pods and use headphones. So I don't know if they listen to that or not.

 

Ironically, to ban the n-word in music is to ban a lot of African-American music that is using the word in a different way. If my kids were listening to that, I trust they could tell the difference. I wouldn't listen to it .

 

:iagree:

[jelbe5]

You provide the Internet, you set the rules. Adult child is free to leave if the old fogey rules are a problem. Listening with headphones and not subjecting everyone else to objectionable/questionable lyrics is more than reasonable.

[J-rap]

Any lyrics played in our house have to be appropriate to all ages and genders. If it's something we need to shield from the ears of a young child, then it's not appropriate. Why would I want my children -- of any age -- to listen to any music that is not either beautiful or positive or valuable? Or at the very least, not offensive or derogatory toward anyone.

 

I guess if that word were used in a positive way that was not offensive or disrespectful toward a group of people, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Catherine]

It's an ugly word. But I think of ugly music kind of like I think of ugly hair-it's not a lifelong commitment (like, say, a tattoo) so if they want to indulge their taste for ugliness, I'm not going to interfere beyond expressing my distaste. YMMV.

[Haiku]

Really? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked! ;)

 

Yeah, the thing that stings is that it was the other parent who referred to me as such.

 

:glare:

 

Tara

[Rebel Yell]

I agree that the parents get to set the standard for the home, and for what will and won't be tolerated. I'm not a fan of the "my house, my rules" argument when it's an unreasonable "because I said so" thing. I do support it in terms of moral or ethical concerns, which this appears to be.

 

We haven't yet restricted any music for words or terms. Most of our music has warnings for explicit lyrics. We don't sing those words if the kids are around, but we don't censor them otherwise. Not true, I guess we used to turn the music down at certain spots in some songs when they were little little (under 5) if we listened to them at all in front of the kids. Mostly we saved certain bands for when the kids weren't around.

 

I don't contraband music with that word in my home just because of that word. What matters to me is more whether or not it was a culturally appropriated use of the word - if so, I allow it. I'd guess this is true of the music your kid wants. I suggest they limit who/when they listen to or share it, in terms of younger siblings or friends whose parents have different values. I think we own some responsibility in that regard. This is true of various genres and use of other inflammatory words, too.

 

Part of this is because we didn't know what words were bad when we moved to the US, so my parents let us listen to anything LOL.

 

:iagree:

 

It sounds like the OPs kids are older and possibly a different ethnicity? If so, it could have a different meaning/context in their culture than if *I*, the whitest white girl ever, LOL, got up and started rapping the N word. :lol:Maybe discuss it with some people more knowledgeable about the culture/context? I agree if it is offensive it should not be played loud for the house & littles to hear. But to me, this isn;t an "old fogey" issue. It's more of an understanding thing. I have always been taught that that word was supremely offensive- and of I called someone that, it would be- but I believe that for people of the same color/culture/whatever it's more like me calling my buddy "Dude!"

[radiobrain]

There is a difference between being an old fogey and having standards.

 

Personally, I think that my first order of business is that the music shouldn't suck. Most things that make it to the radio fall into this category, IMHO. Music made in a studio, or a board room, or from a focus group needs to be jettisoned into space. Sure, there are some songs that fit this bill that are good songs, but they are few and far between.

 

I think that songs that use gimmicks (alphabet-words) to shock and get listeners that way, are lame. Die Antwoord, Eminem, etc. are extremely offesnsive, but they are sort of like art projects-- which is different from the run of the mill hiphop crotch grabbing stuff.

 

I wouldn't allow my kids to listen to that stuff for multiple reasons, much like they can't watch certain movies, I am the parent, those are the rules. I explain why I feel that way, but I don't pretend it doesn't exist.

 

I'm rambling. I'll stop and finish this screwdriver. ;)

[Hoot]

Not an old fogey at all. I would not be okay with allowing that. It sends the message that saying that word, and thus calling a person by that name, is okay.

[Harriet Vane]

Having lived in an urban, African-American community for fourteen years, I know that the n-word has a dual reality.

 

On the one hand, it is part of urban, African-American culture. Between African-Americans in the city it is common to use the word.

 

On the other hand, I have never encountered a word that carries as much negative emotional impact as does that word. I do not know any African-American who considers it acceptable, EVER, for a non-African-American to use this word. Furthermore, almost all my African-American friends have so much pain associated with that word that they never, ever use it, and are grieved by its use within city culture.

[Haiku]

Maybe discuss it with some people more knowledgeable about the culture/context?

 

I'm actually very knowledgeable about the word and its history. We have had several discussions previously about it. And because I don't want to have a closed mind, today I did more reading about the word and its current place in the culture AND I talked to a friend who is a hip-hop artist AND I talked to some people who come to where I work whom I felt comfortable asking about it.

 

I really didn't uncover anything that made me feel differently, and not because I refused to consider other opinions. Mostly because most of what I found was in agreement with me. (Google search was "history of the word n*gga.")

 

I can't imagine the president, or the principal of my child's school, or Bill Cosby, or many other well-respected black people calling their friends this word.

 

but I believe that for people of the same color/culture/whatever it's more like me calling my buddy "Dude!"

 

My child is the same color but not the same culture, if that makes sense. She was raised in another country before she came to us, and she lives in a majority-white family. She goes to a majority-black school, and they frequently tell her she "acts white" or "isn't black enough," both because of her skin color and because of her manner of speaking.

 

I get that part of the issue is trying to fit in; I haven't told her that she must cover her ears and flee the scene screaming if her friends are listening to this music. I haven't told her she must hate it. I have told her that I don't approve of the music and I don't want it in my house. If is listening to it on her headphones on her iPod, I wouldn't bust in and demand to know what she's listening to/demand that she cease listening. But if she's streaming it over an internet connection we pay for, and she's playing it where we can hear it, I feel that's a no-no.

 

And I do wish she would make better musical choices, but I recognize that my authority only goes so far. But after I came home from work one day and found her and my two younger kids hanging out in her room listening to Chris-Brown-the-woman-beater music, we had a LONG talk about appropriate music. What precipitated last night's discussion was my husband and me coming home from dinner out to find her playing it out loud in the living room.

 

Tara

[jelbe5]

It seems to me you have attempted to be reasonable and have made your concerns clear. If my (soon to be 18) dd was not willing to honor my rules while still living here Pandora would be gone and Internet access locked.

[katilac]

I think you need to let go of the Pandora/we pay for the internet argument. Either she can listen to her choice of music if you are not specifically paying for it, and if she uses headphones, or she cannot. The royalties argument, while valid, is not going to sway her, and is more of a distraction than it is worth.

 

My opinion? With teens, particularly older teens, I think one is wise to negotiate, opinionate, encourage and discourage, rather than forbid. My house, my rules shuts down conversation, breeds resentment, and does not make it likely that the teen will give honest consideration to your views.

 

To you want to control her behavior for as long as she lives in your house, or do you may to influence her behavior for the rest of her life?

 

Your text is an excellent conversation starter - a conversation she will likely not engage in if you simply forbid the music. Let's face it, most of us do consume popular media that contains many words and ideas that we disagree with. The ability to spot negative influences in enjoyable media will serve her well, as will the skill of deciding just when the negatives outweigh the positives. It takes a long time to develop these skills, and it's a very personal journey. I think that discussing media is far more worthwhile than forbidding it.

 

With teens and young adults, the desire to experience popular culture as their peers do is exceptionally strong. However, it is very possible for them to do so without 'buying in' to everything they are exposed to, at every level. Yes, you want them to be savvy, thoughtful media consumers overall - but, think back (waaaay back :D): sometimes you just want to see the newest hit movie or sing some highly inappropriate song lyrics at the top of your lungs because it's stupid and fun.

[GSOchristie]

My kids are little so I definitely haven't BTDT, my biggest problem with the music containing the word is that it is generally not edifying in ANY way. Granted, I don't listen to it often, but I'm always irritated when songs glorify things like greed, sexual perversion, etc, which I am imagining these songs do, correct me if I'm wrong. Our cultural standards for morality suck, so why listen to things that set them up as desireable? I hope that my kids will be disgusted by them, but I hope that dh and I stand strong and don't allow it. Talk to me in 13 years :).

[Laurie4b]

You are in a hard place, one that confronts many adoptive mixed race families. Her friends are defining "black" for her; anything you do to the contrary is "white", even if another very reasonable African American mother (even their own mothers) would do the same. I think in that case, I would just say she can make her own choices--she can listen to it when no one is home or if she's using ear buds; however, not in front of your younger kids. That would be the only limit I would set.

 

I've been a foster parent to an African American child and we loved her, but were not her real parents, like adoptive parents are. However, she was under the same pressure about "acting white." I've seen the same thing in multitudes of families where the adoptive parents are majority culture and the kids are not. It seems most pronounced with white/African-American adoptions, understandably so because of our history of slavery. We were told our fostering of her (we did it privately in an arrangement with her mother for free) was a form of slavery because we didn't have birth children at the time. Took me a long time to figure that one out. Anyway,:grouphug:; it's hard.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Laurie4b

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I wouldn't want to ban a lot of good music due to that word, but I can understand not wanting younger children (or yourself) to listen to it.

 

Many songs that use that word also have an important message--Lupe Fiasco's "Show Goes On" comes to mind. There's a reason the artists choose to use that word and I don't think it's shock value. It seems wrong to me to ban it, to silence the rest of the message.

 

There must be some common ground between "it's completely unacceptable" and "stop being such an old fogey"!

[katilac]

<snip> But if she's streaming it over an internet connection we pay for, and she's playing it where we can hear it, I feel that's a no-no.

 

And I do wish she would make better musical choices, but I recognize that my authority only goes so far. But after I came home from work one day and found her and my two younger kids hanging out in her room listening to Chris-Brown-the-woman-beater music, we had a LONG talk about appropriate music. What precipitated last night's discussion was my husband and me coming home from dinner out to find her playing it out loud in the living room.

 

Tara

 

We posted at the same time. Again, I wouldn't worry about the internet connection issue, but telling her to use headphones for any music you don't like (no matter why) is more than reasonable.

 

If she used headphones, would that do the trick?

 

Having lived in an urban, African-American community for fourteen years, I know that the n-word has a dual reality.

 

On the one hand, it is part of urban, African-American culture. Between African-Americans in the city it is common to use the word.

 

On the other hand, I have never encountered a word that carries as much negative emotional impact as does that word. I do not know any African-American who considers it acceptable, EVER, for a non-African-American to use this word. Furthermore, almost all my African-American friends have so much pain associated with that word that they never, ever use it, and are grieved by its use within city culture.

 

I haven't found this to be true among some of the younger set around here (late teens to late twenties, say). Black, white, and mixed, they all n*gga each other to death, in person and online. I don't know about high schooled teens.

[LaxMom]

Wanted to add: I am not prude or fogey in any way. I like some funky music with some raunchy lyrics. I just don't like music that refers to people in derogatory terms. I wouldn't allow it on my dime, either.

 

I agree. I have a general policy against censorship, and don't really take exception to anyone's use of language... But there is so much hate, so much violence, so much derision in that word, there is just no way to neutralize it. If words themselves could be evil, that one would be.

[Haiku]

Her friends are defining "black" for her;

 

This is true. And the sad thing is, she was just telling me yesterday afternoon (before the Great Music Debacle) that these people are not really her friends; they are just her "school friends," people she is friendly with at school so that she's not, in her words, "a loner."

 

We have had lots of discussions about differences in culture and how it's not exclusively a race-based thing. I have pointed out many examples of things in certain segments of white culture that I find unacceptable and would never emulate or lend my support to. I have talked to her about how there is not just one way to be black in America, just as how all the people in her home country (overwhelmingly black) did not all live, talk, and act the same way.

 

Tara

[Elizabeth in MN]

There is a disagreement in our home about acceptable music for teenagers to listen to. One of the parents feels that the word "n*gga" is ubiquitous in a popular style of teenage music and not worth trying to avoid/have child avoid (losing battle argument). The other parent feels that it's our home and we get to set the standard for what is or is not acceptable therein (my house, my rules argument). During an argument about it, one of the parents was accused of being an old fogey.

 

Opinions?

 

Tara

 

It would depend on if the person saying the word was of African heritage or not. If they were not, I'd ban the song. If they were, I'd have a serious talk with the kid in question about the history of the word. We'd also talk about how most minorities take hate words and use them within their communities as a way of taking away the hate and sting of the hate words.

[gardenmom5]

yes - it is common in a popular music style to a specific population segment.

yes - parents get to set the rules for their own home. that includes what music can be played in their home.

 

I have no problem being an old fuddy duddy. in fact, I'm working on developing more fuddy duddy traits.

[gardenmom5]

 

We have had lots of discussions about differences in culture and how it's not exclusively a race-based thing. I have pointed out many examples of things in certain segments of white culture that I find unacceptable and would never emulate or lend my support to. I have talked to her about how there is not just one way to be black in America, just as how all the people in her home country (overwhelmingly black) did not all live, talk, and act the same way.

 

Tara

I've a friend whose daughter is 1/2 spanish. she received much mockery and downright harassment in school from latino's (even though she was darker and has more hispanic features than they did) becuase she did NOT engage in the same behaviors as they did.

[The Girls' Mom]

That word is not allowed in our home, regardless of context.

 

I think we have to be especially careful of music. It has a way of making the lyrics stick in our head. IMHO it is different to hear something uttered in a movie or in passing, than to listen to it set to music. The mind plays those things over and over. I am actually much more strict about the music my teen listens to than most other things. I have no problem with any genre...as long as it is relatively clean. N****r is one word that isn't on the clean list here. ever.

[Joanne]

I don't censor my children's music media. I will intervene on *behavior* but I think music is a known way western teens explore boundaries, build teen culture, and move through expected stages of processing and development.

[The Girls' Mom]

Reading back over the posts, and I wonder about something.

 

Some people don't like the idea of "my house, my rules". Personally, I think every parent has a right to enforce what is and is not ok in their home. There is no way I would let another adult that was visiting my home play that music here. Why should I let my teen, who is still living here, behave any differently?

[Joanne]

:confused:

It seems to me you have attempted to be reasonable and have made your concerns clear. If my (soon to be 18) dd was not willing to honor my rules while still living here Pandora would be gone and Internet access locked.

 

:confused: Over MUSIC?

 

Music says or implies nothing about character, work ethic, behavior, or virtue. I think it is poor choice, develomentally, to treat legal adults that way.

[Joanne]

Reading back over the posts, and I wonder about something.

 

Some people don't like the idea of "my house, my rules". Personally, I think every parent has a right to enforce what is and is not ok in their home. There is no way I would let another adult that was visiting my home play that music here. Why should I let my teen, who is still living here, behave any differently?

 

I totally support my house, my rules. I just think that those rules need to be reasonable, developmentally appropriate, and respectful.

 

Censoring the music of an otherwise behaved child seems to be inviting conflict over a stiuation that will 1) not be an issue 2) is not related to important things such as safety, respect, character.

 

That said, Tara is typically a "chill" parent and not up all in the spaces of her kids. The "n" word is a hot button for her.

[jelbe5]

:confused:

 

:confused: Over MUSIC?

 

Music says or implies nothing about character, work ethic, behavior, or virtue. I think it is poor choice, develomentally, to treat legal adults that way.

 

No, my problem would be if I repeatedly asked my adult child who lives on my philanthropy to not play music I find objectionable in a manner where others can hear it and then came home to find her streaming it in the living room where my other kids were exposed to it. My house, my rules. Don't like it? Get a job and get out.

Edited November 12, 2012 by jelbe5

[raceNzanesmom]

That word is unacceptable in home. However, our sons would also find it unacceptable, so not really an issue here.

[Laurie4b]

This is true. And the sad thing is, she was just telling me yesterday afternoon (before the Great Music Debacle) that these people are not really her friends; they are just her "school friends," people she is friendly with at school so that she's not, in her words, "a loner."

 

We have had lots of discussions about differences in culture and how it's not exclusively a race-based thing. I have pointed out many examples of things in certain segments of white culture that I find unacceptable and would never emulate or lend my support to. I have talked to her about how there is not just one way to be black in America, just as how all the people in her home country (overwhelmingly black) did not all live, talk, and act the same way.

 

Tara

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: It is just plain hard.

When we had our foster daughter, there were no other families like ours in our church. Now there are many and it will make it easier on them I think. Our dd did have an African-American youth group leader and an African American pastor couple who were neighbors of ours who chimed in as well. That was helpful. But the peer thing is really tough.

 

ETA: I know African-American parents who encounter the same thing: peers defining what is and isn't "black." Especially with guys, anything related to academic achievement is often tagged as "white." In a way, those parents have the same problem. Being a parent of a different race just takes it to a whole 'nother level, though, because *you* become defined as the problem.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Laurie4b

[Mommy22alyns]

 

I get that part of the issue is trying to fit in; I haven't told her that she must cover her ears and flee the scene screaming if her friends are listening to this music. I haven't told her she must hate it. I have told her that I don't approve of the music and I don't want it in my house. If is listening to it on her headphones on her iPod, I wouldn't bust in and demand to know what she's listening to/demand that she cease listening. But if she's streaming it over an internet connection we pay for, and she's playing it where we can hear it, I feel that's a no-no.

 

And I do wish she would make better musical choices, but I recognize that my authority only goes so far. But after I came home from work one day and found her and my two younger kids hanging out in her room listening to Chris-Brown-the-woman-beater music, we had a LONG talk about appropriate music. What precipitated last night's discussion was my husband and me coming home from dinner out to find her playing it out loud in the living room.

 

Tara

 

 

In this case, I think you're being perfectly reasonable.

[Audrey]

That is never an acceptable word in my home, no matter the source of the utterance.

[EthiopianFood]

I think I would tell the child (guessing you're talking about the 18 yr old?) that I don't want to hear it. If she does, she needs to put in ear buds, or wear headphones.

 

For a younger child, I would say no, but at 18 I would just make sure the siblings, nor I, was subjected to it.

 

Another thought is that the teen in question is of color...;) I would say leave it, and choose another battle. You don't know what she might be trying to figure out/connect. I am not at all a fan of that type of music, so I am not an apologist for it, only a realist. To the teen, I would absolutely state why I don't like it. I'm never quiet with my opinions. :)

 

I'll go with this one. :iagree: