If people comment on your children being well-behaved ..

[GWOB]

Possibly, but what I fault the parents on is their putting up with misbehavior, not that their kids are misbehaving in the first place. If your kid is rude, but you call them on it, you've got my sympathy.

 

This. If I see a flustered parent trying to correct their kid/ I try to go over and encourage them. Because I have been there:glare:. Some days are just better that others.

 

Do we really have to go here? This seems like too much of a generalization to me. My anecdotal evidence from my area is the opposite. There is an LDS playgroup at our park with a ton of out of control kids and intentionally oblivious parents. Several of my friends with 3+ kids seem to have given up on correcting obnoxious behavior in public. I know several homeschooling families of 5+ kids who let their kids behave very rudely. I know at least dozen parents of 1-2 children who are very involved, intentional, and aware of their children's behavior. I've lived enough places to know that family size is not a determining factor for "brattiness."

 

:iagree: I have met many "only" kids that I would have loved to steal and make my own. I know quite a few stellar "only" parents (on this board too). Meanwhile, the tyrannical hs kids I mentioned in my previous post are usually from larger families. Doesn't someone here have a siggy that says something like "The plural of anecdote is not data?" I think that one applies in cases such as these.

[fraidycat]

I think it's a combination of personality and upbringing.

 

I get comments like that about my children, too. But, it was mostly when they were in PS, so I can't say it's from homeschooling. ;) Whenever we had to move in the middle of the year, the teachers wanted to keep my kids and ship them to us at the end of the school year because they "set good examples". LOL Some days I was tempted to take them up on those offers because...

 

Those well-behaved, well-mannered, QUIET (:confused:) children are NOT like that at home. Especially the quiet part, but the behavior requires constant reminders and the manners occasional reminders.

[AndyJoy]

If I would have stopped at 2 children I would have thought that I was the best parent ever and that people who couldn't make their kids behave in public were horrible parents. I have since learned differently. (of course high expectations and good modeling are appropriate and the lack of would impact a kid's behavior as well.

 

I was not the one who brought family size into the discussion FWIW. I was just disputing the PP's claim that moms of medium or larger families don't care about their kids' behavior.

 

I think you misunderstood what she was saying. I think she was saying that her first two kids were easy to parent/well-behaved, and she thought it was mostly due to her excellent parenting until she had a 3rd child who was of a different personality/nature.

[Alphabetika]

We get compliments often on our children's behavior.

 

I credit both our parenting and homeschooling. Sure, children at public schools can be well behaved too, (and I know some!) but parents have to work hard after school to un-teach their children some of the behaviors that they pick up at school.

 

My oldest dd was in school for two years before we started HSing. She often had difficult, out-of-character behavior (at home, not at school) during those two years that stopped when we started HSing. I think for her it was due to chronic social overstimulation combined with intellectual understimulation at school and lack of rest from having to get up early. I know that most misbehavior isn't this simple, but sometimes I wonder if many of the children misbehaving in public, especially really young ones, could use an overall simpler, quieter, freer, richer life.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Alphabetika

[Trez]

I think parenting and modelling has alot to do with it. We say "please" and "thank you" all of the time. We have even been known to thank the people at fast-food restaurants on our way out - after a meal. My daughter's teachers (she was in PS) used to comment that she was the only kid who said "Thanks" as she was leaving the classroom. Our kids have been taught to address adults as Mr and Mrs. They treated "stupid" as a bad word for a very long time (teens now so it does get read in books etc). If they were acting "out of line" we would be sure to walk over and intervene (not just say "stop doing that" and then ignore it). My kids aren't perfect but in general are very polite and respectful of others.

[Guest]

Agreeing with others. It is many factors, some of them within my control, some dumb luck. My two oldest kids always got the "complete, total angels" comment. My youngest - I thought he would never learn to behave. ;) They are very good kids now, though and I think we got there due to a combination of many, many, many factors. Homeschooling is probably a factor, if only because they have continuous attention from a parent.

 

I don't embrace a punishment model, but I do think swift and consistent correction goes a long way to shape better behavior. By the time they are teens, it's almost automatic.

[ktgrok]

I think it is a combination of all of the above. I think there is a correlation with homeschooing due to the positive benefits to the relationship when time and attention are invested. (see book Hold on to Your Kids) But, I also think that luck plays a big part--I would have attributed my first being well-behaved to parenting until I had my 3rd. Some kids are just naturally better behaved, and some have to mature out of some behaviors that no amount of punishing would diminish, and unless you have parented a kid like that it is impossible to understand.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Yup. I parent my kids all the same way, and my 2 year old already has better manners than my teen ever had...but of course, he has Aspergers, so go figure. Seriously, some is parental effort but a lot is how compliant the child naturally is.

[tyydae]

I believe it is a direct reflection of the parent's ability to mold their child's behavior. Children are a representation of their families. To go out into a public place and be allowed to throw tantrums, snatch items down off the shelves in grocery stores ultimately looks bad on the parents. This is something I had to explain to my son AFTER he tried throwing a temper tantrum in B&N. First, I hauled him off to the bathroom (because that kind of conduct is simply not tolerated in our family AND should not be allowed in public places. Just my opinion). Then I gave him a few minutes to calm down and get himself together, or else we were going to leave. Next I made it clear that he is to never, ever act like that in public, or at home. There is simply no need.

 

When people tell me how well-behaved my children are, I am most thankful. But at the same time, it is something that I already know.

[angela in ohio]

I don't think it is homeschooling. I know too many horrid HS children and lovely PS children. I just don't see any correlation IRL there.

 

I don't think it is family size. Again, I know awful and nice large family dc and the same for onlies.

 

I don't think it is just biology, unless we are talking about a severe disability.

 

We get comments all the time. My dc have pretty manners, but they also have the giving hearts that we instilled in them, and that is what people notice more. They will give you whatever they have, they will let you go first, they don't ask or grab or anything like that. They give their time to others and don't keep much for themselves.

 

My middle dd had severe behavioral issues for many years, and she is lovely now but still a challenge I have to stay on top of. If someone looks at my three well-behaved dc and thinks I got lucky and don't know what it takes, they are *wrong.* Whenever someone tells us how lucky we are that we just happened to get well-behaved dc, I have to bite my tongue until it bleeds. They weren't there, crying and worrying through the rages, fits, arguing, etc. Even the other two, a lot less challenging, required constant correction and guidance. I don't know who the people are who get automatically lovely dc, but I'm jealous.

 

Anyway, I personally think it's about 40% modeling and 60% being willing to put in the work and having the confidence to parent. I don't need my dc to like me, I don't need their approval or anyone else's. I do what is right for them in the long term no matter what it costs me. I never majored on the minors. We taught them to love others and think of them, and that covered everything. In each situation, we pointed them to that, and instead of learning a list of rules, they learned one principle that they can use in any situation.

 

I think education has helped. I think it is easier to move about happily and kindly when you understand the world around you - when you have the big picture - and a strong education frees you to do that.

 

But mostly I think it's about sacrifice. You put in the time, you give up other things, and you get the results.

Edited October 13, 2012 by angela in ohio

[SKL]

Isn't it funny (for some of us, anyway) that your kid can get a compliment one day and the next day be the brat who inspires those "my kid would never" thoughts?

 

Last night my kid went to a birthday party at Chuck E Cheese (our first time there - it's not my kinda hangout). After a generous share of lemonade and birthday cake, she was practically climbing up the walls, all with a huge smile on her face. She didn't do anything "horrible," just came across like someone you wouldn't want to have to take home with you ;). And yes, there have been many times when I've had people go out of their way to tell me she and her sister were the best-behaved kids they've seen, including in a restaurant. :D

 

My kids are not perfect so I pretty much never let my guard down. Well, "never" is probably overkill, because there have been a few times when I was just too exhausted to sweat the small stuff. The laughing, prancing, acting like sugared-up kids but not actually breaking any rules. The occasional smart-mouth reply when they're also ready to collapse.

 

Then again, I've seen adults (at all intelligence/income levels) act worse than my kids ever have, so how much should I beat myself up about it?

[Dmmetler]

In my DD's case, it actually makes me brace for a storm. See, she tends to hold it together best in situations where she's nervous/not confident, and then she falls apart when she's safe. So, if I'm getting comments about what an angel she is and how she's NEVER a bother and is SO quiet and so on, I know that sometime, in the next couple of days, she's probably going to fall apart, and hope it's a category 1, not a category 5.

 

It took several years of co-ops and park days for the other parents to start to see the "Real DD"-so now we're working on the "Using appropriate ways to manage frustrations" part, as they get to see the "meltdown over being eliminated at musical chairs" side of her!

Edited October 13, 2012 by dmmetler

[merry gardens]

My oldest dd was in school for two years before we started HSing. She often had difficult, out-of-character behavior (at home, not at school) during those two years that stopped when we started HSing. I think for her it was due to chronic social overstimulation combined with intellectual understimulation at school and lack of rest from having to get up early. I know that most misbehavior isn't this simple, but sometimes I wonder if many of the children misbehaving in public, especially really young ones, could use an overall simpler, quieter, freer, richer life.

:iagree:

 

Children behave differently when tired, hungry, over-(or-under)-stimulated. When they are in a classroom surrounded by other tired, hungry, overstimulated children, they start to think poor behavior is normal and acceptable. Bad habits develop, then habits become harder to break.

 

Recognizine patterns helps break the cycle. Years ago when we sent our children to public school, I saw a pattern in one of my children. He'd break down every Friday evening at home, rest on Saturday, then behave well for the rest of the week until Friday. If we'd tried adding dinners out on Friday or grocery store trips, no one would have told me how well behaved he was. We'd have gotten those looks. :glare:

 

I suspect some of mine would likely be candidates for behavioral medications if they attended public schools and had to endure what the average American child in public school has to endure. Instead, we get compliments.

[EKS]

I believe that it's homeschooling.

[-M-]

Or ... are other kids surprisingly not so well-behaved??

 

Is it homeschooling?? That seems like too easy an answer, to say they're well-behaved because they're homeschooled ... surely there are very well-behaved school children ...

 

So anyway, here's my question: If you have kids that you think are very well-behaved, or if you've been told they are (or for that matter, if you know someone who's kids are very well-behaved, or both), what do you attribute that to?

 

Is it just dumb luck? Is it family dinners together? Church attendance? Homeschooling? (and if so, why?) Are you unusually strict and have a lot of rules?

 

Also, what are the specific differences in behavior that you're seen? I guess what I'm asking is, what are "normal" kids doing that your "very well-behaved kids" would never do? Because I can't help but wonder ... if my kids are "better behaved than everyone else," well, what are those other kids like??

 

Please discuss ... :)

 

In my experience (three kids, twenty-three years of parenting), babies, toddlers, and preschoolers require a high level of loving but purposeful micromanagement, and this proves difficult for some parents. My husband and I began with a mantra: "Put them in situations in which they can succeed." After that, it was a matter of modeling and guidance -- which, of course, requires a great deal of awareness and the ability to clearly and appropriately articulate what you require.

 

We had reasoned that if we put in the time when they were little and able to absorb good habits with relative ease, we'd enjoy the fruits when they were older and more resistant to someone's ongoing critique and correction.

 

We were right.

 

As many of us know, though, not all parents embrace such an "engaged and aware" style of parenting. These are the same parents whose toddlers run around restaurants while the parents talk or whose babies scream as the parents shop for non-essentials at Target or whose preschoolers crowd into other families' space for snacks, toys, and diversion because their parents need "me time." *

 

And because of those parents, we have been hearing about our kids' good behavior for twenty-three years. *wry grin*

 

As for the role homeschooling has played in our kids' good behavior, I think this lifestyle has afforded us the luxury of time. We're a family of talkers. With this unconventional schedule, we've had much more time to talk, talk, talk through things than the typical family enjoys. Yes, there are good kids from families who have more conventional schedules (to say nothing of families who think talk, talk, talk is the absolute wrong way to go!). I'm speaking strictly about our parenting experience, and homeschooling has given us the time we needed to get it right... or at least to get it close to right... or right enough, anyway.

 

 

* We have all had public experiences of no good, very bad parenting moments. I am not talking about those. I am talking about precisely what I describe: Parents who cluelessly (or not so) unleash their untrained children on the rest of us while they stubbornly do what they want to do. A screaming baby in Target in the cart of a mother who just needs diapers and milk? That's one thing. A screaming baby while Mom and Dad compare bath towels? Um, not exactly subscribers to the aware and engaged parenting model.

[mommymilkies]

I'd say it's nature and nurture with a good dose of sheer luck thrown in.

 

:iagree: especially the luck part! I get this comment a lot, but I've also had my share of humiliating bad behavior in public. :lol: it depends on their mood!

[Clear Creek]

From my experiences and observation I would guess that it is almost 100% parenting. I have seen out-of-control, bratty, fit-throwing home schooled children, and I have seen extraordinarily well-behaved public schooled children. The factor that I have noticed that has the greatest effect on a child's behavior is whether or not the parents consistently and immediately deal with unpleasant/unwanted behavior as soon as it appears. The child *knows* their parents' expectations and that undesirable behavior *will not* be tolerated in any situation (whether or not the parents are even present). The child doesn't fear the parent, or the consequences of their actions (i.e. punishment); they just understand that their parents hold them to behavioral standards that will be met and if their behavior falls below those standards, life as they know it will halt and they will be eye-to-eye with their parents until their behavior meets standard again. Again, it is not a fearful confrontation, but most often looking the child in the eye and saying the child's name and asking if their behavior is acceptable, and holding the child accountable to immediate correction of the behavior.

 

I have seen this type of parenting have equal success with home school families and public school families. I have seen lax, inconsistent parenting fail in both home school and public school families.

 

I don't think that the personality of the child has very much to do with it. A couple of the most well-behaved children that I know are extremely stubborn, picky, and tantrum-prone, but the parents don't stand for any unpleasant behavior and are very consistent in correcting the children's behavior. I think the personality of the parent probably has much more to do with the child's behavior than the personality of the child.

[LucyStoner]

I have one child who is very well behaved and the other who, while he is not trying to be rude, struggles with learning social skills and norms. Don't get me wrong; we are actively parenting him. He is not crazy in public 98% of the time. However, it is tedious when people assume his so so record with saying thanks is due to lack of parenting savvy. Or that a meltdown can be easily ended by ordering him to snap out of it. Ha! I dare you to try. Believe me, we tried the for a long time and it made it worse. We did/do the same or less with the well behaved one and I never have to remind him to be socially gracious or polite. The one who struggles has made strides, with many complimenting him at different times.

 

He also is a freaky good eater in that he totally self regulates all sugar and treat consumption. He will not eat something if he is not hungry and he will decline a brownie in favor of an apple or whole grain toast if he feels the brownie would be too much sugar with what he has already had. He also never wants to waste his morning parked in front of the TV. And as an infant and toddler, he slept so well we felt we were doing it perfectly. Once opon a time we thought all those pluses were us. HA. Now the well behaved child came along. Won't fall asleep alone. Would happily stare at a screen for hours if we let him. And was born with a chocolate radar like no other. We did nothin differently sleep or food or tv exposure wise between the two. We got very different results.

 

Parents who don't have difficult or sensitive/high strung kids do well not to congratulate themselves for that. It's not very wise and frequently I see parents forced to change their perceptions and judgments when they do have a child who is more trying. I am not saying parenting doesn't matter, it does. But out kids are not made to order by our parenting. We have to work with what we have. I agree also that it is luck and setting. My son is considered a delight in his writing class, an oddball who is one to try and beat at pinewood derby at scouts; and if you catch us at the right moment, hell on wheels.

Edited October 13, 2012 by kijipt

[Alte Veste Academy]

From my experiences and observation I would guess that it is almost 100% parenting. I have seen out-of-control, bratty, fit-throwing home schooled children, and I have seen extraordinarily well-behaved public schooled children. The factor that I have noticed that has the greatest effect on a child's behavior is whether or not the parents consistently and immediately deal with unpleasant/unwanted behavior as soon as it appears. The child *knows* their parents' expectations and that undesirable behavior *will not* be tolerated in any situation (whether or not the parents are even present). The child doesn't fear the parent, or the consequences of their actions (i.e. punishment); they just understand that their parents hold them to behavioral standards that will be met and if their behavior falls below those standards, life as they know it will halt and they will be eye-to-eye with their parents until their behavior meets standard again. Again, it is not a fearful confrontation, but most often looking the child in the eye and saying the child's name and asking if their behavior is acceptable, and holding the child accountable to immediate correction of the behavior.

 

I have seen this type of parenting have equal success with home school families and public school families. I have seen lax, inconsistent parenting fail in both home school and public school families.

 

I don't think that the personality of the child has very much to do with it. A couple of the most well-behaved children that I know are extremely stubborn, picky, and tantrum-prone, but the parents don't stand for any unpleasant behavior and are very consistent in correcting the children's behavior. I think the personality of the parent probably has much more to do with the child's behavior than the personality of the child.

 

This is very true in my case. Very true. DS9 is mostly steady but can get unruly here and there. My DD is (and has always been) a FIRECRACKER! DS6 is a serious limit-pusher. My discipline is kind and gentle but ever present. It is more about behavior-based limits and the kids know they each hold the key to their own rights and freedom. They have all misbehaved in public, but the vast majority of their behavior in public is compliment worthy because when it is not, they know it.

 

I think HS or PS is anecdotally but not statistically irrelevant, because I do believe that the type of parent who chooses to homeschool is more likely to be the type of parent who gives more conscious thought to parenting in general. This is not always the case, obviously.

 

All around, I think parents make too many excuses for their kids and are too lazy with discipline. Of all things, at a homeschool art class last year, DS9 got a little wild with the paint, goofing off pretending to spill his paint/water cup on DD (niiiiiice). He "accidentally" spilled the very messy contents while throwing it away, and it spattered up to make a giant mess of the white supply closet doors. When he didn't come out after quite a few minutes when class was over, I went in to hurry him along. That's when the teacher told me what he had done and that she was having him clean it up. She actually looked like she was bracing for a fight with me when she told me that, and I saw her visibly relax when I told her, "Oh, of course he will clean it up!" and expressed disappointment in DS9 for his behavior. She was startled by that. :confused:

 

She was a moonlighting public school teacher and says my reaction was uncommon. Huh? Really? What does that say about parental expectations for their kids' behavior these days?! What does it say about parental expectations for kids learning from their mistakes, facing consequences for their actions? Natural consequences for your actions is the very framework of my discipline strategy! :lol: Those closet doors were textured. It was very hard for DS9 to get all the paint off with the cleaning supplies on hand, paper towels and cleaning spray. She told him "good enough" when I thought it was nowhere near good enough, because it wasn't completely cleaned up. :lol: So, I told her I would have him bring back a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser the following week to finish the job. And he did. And she was shocked. But really, boy, you splatter paint all over the door by acting silly and you are going to clean up your mess! The end. In a million years it would not occur to DS9 to fight me on that discipline! Or DD or DS6 either, because even though they are not easy kids by nature, they have matured through consistently being held to reasonable expectations.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[Trez]

I agree wholeheartedly with the immediate and consistent correction of parents. Although I agree that saying please and thankyou is not the be all and end all of good behaviour, I do believe that being respectful and kind to other people, as well as respecting elders and rules, is something important to model for children.

 

With respect to schooling, one of the annoyances I had was that often the "squeeky wheel" gets the attention. There have been other times, for example, when the skipping ropes are thrown into a pile and kids told to run and grab one. Invariably, the polite kids end up with some old broken rope while the pushy, agressive ones get the good ropes. This is just an example but it is very frustrating when you try to teach your kids to take turns, not push and shove, etc...this behaviour is not always rewarded in the school system.

 

It has been interesting having an older son who has just started back to ps in gr 9. He has been given group projects with kids who say they will do the work and don't, or kids who have actually taken his work and presented it as their own. The frustration is that there are no consequences for this and in one instance, his teacher actually blamed him saying that he was the "leader" (note that the rest of the group just pointed to him after the fact and said that he was) and should have made them work. My mil says that he needs to learn these things as he hasn't had to deal with them being homeschooled. I think to myself ....great so he needs to learn to be lazier, lie, and cheat. Don't forget to incorporate that into your lesson plans at home!:glare:

 

Sorry for going a bit off topic...I think I needed to get that off my chest. Anyway, I guess I believe that homeschooling provides a better opportunity to encourage and reward good behaviour.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Parents who don't have difficult or sensitive/high strung kids do well not to congratulate themselves for that. It's not very wise and frequently I see parents forced to change their perceptions and judgments when they do have a child who is more trying. I am not saying parenting doesn't matter, it does. But out kids are not made to order by our parenting. We have to work with what we have.

 

I agree with this, but I also think that many people make the mistake of thinking that this child is easy and this child is hard and give the hard child more leeway. I have seen parents (friends even) let their hard kids get away with behaviors that they would never let their easy kids get away with because they are exhausted by the fight. And I get that! I do. I've been tired. I've solo parented much of my kids' lives due to DH being away a great deal. I also know that kids are different. Boy, are my kids ever different! My DD is/was definitely trying in the emotional behavior department, and DS6 in the bull-headed behavior department. Yes, we definitely have to work with what we have. But the point is that we have to work with what we have--not throw our hands up or look the other way sometimes or make excuses--work.

 

I agree with what someone said earlier, that if you have a difficult child and you're addressing it, I respect that. I've been there and I don't have any judgment. In fact, I try to reserve judgment because of invisible issues. But the thing is that most kids aren't running around wild because of invisible issues; they are running around wild because they are allowed to run around wild.

[Dolphin]

.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Northwest_Mama

[LucyStoner]

 

I agree with what someone said earlier, that if you have a difficult child and you're addressing it, I respect that. I've been there and I don't have any judgment. In fact, I try to reserve judgment because of invisible issues. But the thing is that most kids aren't running around wild because of invisible issues; they are running around wild because they are allowed to run around wild.

 

Often in my experience, people really don't know what is being done to address the issue. My son hit the roof when signing in for his haircut. Full on fit. I knew that if I picked him up he would flail and hit. I knew that if I took him by the hand, I would be dragging him out of there like Linus' blanket. I walked to the end of the hall and sat on the bench by the door. It took less than 90 seconds for him to run after me. As I am getting into the car with him (he is still sobbing) some judgmental witchy woman accosts me for ignoring my child and tells me I should make him get his haircut. Um, lady I knew full well what would get him out of there the fastest and safest and that there was no way to get him to calm down for a haircut that day. I took him home and later cut it myself because he was worried about having someone shampoo his hair he didn't know. Ladies like that need to stay out of what they can't possibly understand. This is one of a few similar examples, including a woman who cursed him out for knocking over a few shoes at goodwill and a hipster couple who wouldn't accept his apology for bumping them with out cart while I was very briefly calculating the relative value of several packs of sunflower seeds. Everyone has an opinion on what to do, but little of it is relevant to a child they do not know or understand in the 2 minutes they might see him. There is no excuse for people passing that sort of judgment on a kid they know nothing about.

Edited October 13, 2012 by kijipt

[Alte Veste Academy]

Often in my experience, people really don't know what is being done to address the issue. My son hit the roof when signing in for his haircut. Full on fit. I knew hat I I picked him up he would flail and hit. I knew that if I took him by the hand, I would be dragging him out of there like Linus' blanket. I walked to the end of the hall and sat on the bench by the door. It took less than 90 seconds for him to run after me. As I am getting into the car with him (he is still sobbing) some judgmental witchy woman accosts me for ignoring my child and tells me I should make him get his haircut. Um, lady I knew full well what would get him out of there the fastest and safest and that there was no way to get him to calm down for a haircut that day. Stay out of what you can't possibly understand. This is one of a few similar examples, including a woman who cursed him out for knocking over a few shoes at goodwill and a hipster couple who wouldn't accept his apology for bumping them with out cart while I was very briefly calculating the relative value of several packs of sunflower seeds. Everyone has an opinion on what to do, but little of it is relevant to a child they do not know or understand in the 2 minutes they might see him. There is no excuse for passing that sort of judgment on a kid you know nothing about.

 

Well, as I said, I have been there. My point is that just as someone shouldn't think their perfect parenting is responsible for angelic behavior when it might just be easy temperaments, neither should anyone assume that angelic behavior is only the result of being issued kids with easy temperaments. It's a continuum and there are too many factors to make assumptions either way.

 

For what it's worth, I would consider anyone else giving me their uninformed opinion regarding my discipline to be poor manners. I certainly wouldn't take it to heart.

[ColoNative]

Boy, I agree with so many of you. Several of my boys are well behaved and then, well, there's that one...it makes me wonder if they really have the same parents (except I know he does because I've been there all along!)

 

I do think many people do not have high expectations of their children, and the "norm" is not well-behaved children. My DH was out of town one time, and I took the boys out to eat...rare event for me with all the kids...anyway, we were enjoying our meal and I got ready to pay. The waitress comes to me and says "someone has paid for your meal because they think you have the most well mannered boys and they wanted to bless you." I was, in fact, floored and probably cried because I know the struggles of behavior, etc. I've dealt with...guess all the planets aligned that day. Just to say, it's a welcome compliment when you hear that, but I know that it's not always that way - it's our goal, and that goes beyond what many parents expect..:lol:

 

That event has also prompted me to see how I might bless others in a similar fashion, or encourage those who are struggling in public with their children.

[LucyStoner]

Well, as I said, I have been there. My point is that just as someone shouldn't think their perfect parenting is responsible for angelic behavior when it might just be easy temperaments, neither should anyone assume that angelic behavior is only the result of being issued kids with easy temperaments. It's a continuum and there are too many factors to make assumptions either way.

 

For what it's worth, I would consider anyone else giving me their uninformed opinion regarding my discipline to be poor manners. I certainly wouldn't take it to heart.

 

Oh, I totally agree that people should not write off the effort of parents or dismiss a well bahaved child as an easy child. I know people who do that and it is every bit as judgmental as what I described.

 

I don't take that sort of junk to heart but it certainly never makes my day easier. I sharply told off the couple and the woman at Goodwill and the lady who accosted me by the car was told something like, until you have lived with and loved my son you can keep your opinions to yourself.

[LMD]

I think it is a combination of all of the above. I think there is a correlation with homeschooing due to the positive benefits to the relationship when time and attention are invested. (see book Hold on to Your Kids) But, I also think that luck plays a big part--I would have attributed my first being well-behaved to parenting until I had my 3rd. Some kids are just naturally better behaved, and some have to mature out of some behaviors that no amount of punishing would diminish, and unless you have parented a kid like that it is impossible to understand.

 

Exactly! My 3rd was a wake up call too. I used to get compliments on my older 2 all the time. I adore my youngest, but he's a firecracker!

[tyydae]

Parents who don't have difficult or sensitive/high strung kids do well not to congratulate themselves for that. It's not very wise and frequently I see parents forced to change their perceptions and judgments when they do have a child who is more trying. I am not saying parenting doesn't matter, it does. But out kids are not made to order by our parenting. We have to work with what we have. I agree also that it is luck and setting. My son is considered a delight in his writing class, an oddball who is one to try and beat at pinewood derby at scouts; and if you catch us at the right moment, hell on wheels.

 

I come to believe that parents should congratulate themselves waaaay more often that what they already do. They should give themselves waaaay more credit, too! Every little step counts, every story read, every cuddle, kiss and family fun night. My patting myself on the back does not take anything away from the mother whose child is hell on wheels, and vice verse.

[LucyStoner]

I come to believe that parents should congratulate themselves waaaay more often that what they already do. They should give themselves waaaay more credit, too! Every little step counts, every story read, every cuddle, kiss and family fun night. My patting myself on the back does not take anything away from the mother whose child is hell on wheels, and vice verse.

 

I agree that parents should give themselves mega props. I just see a lot of that congratulatory attitude coming out as "MY child WOULD never do THAT" with a very comparison oriented judgment coming out.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I agree that parents should give themselves mega props. I just see a lot of that congratulatory attitude coming out as "MY child WOULD never do THAT" with a very comparison oriented judgment coming out.

 

I think I might have been reading the posts differently. I've read most of what's posted as, "my child knows he would never get away with that!" As in, misbehave and not face consequences.

[swellmomma]

You know what, this whole thread has me irked, big time. I have posted before when I get positive comments about my kids behaviour. But honestly I get more comments about their negative behaviours than anything else. Their good behaviour is NOT 100% due to parenting. Nor is their bad behaviour 100% due to bad parenting. Guess what sometimes kids just have bad behaviour regardless of their upbringing. I have high expectations for my kids behaviour. I am on them when they screw up. Guess what they still do it. I am a good parent, but my kids are not NT and have problems. Tell you what, YOU raise 2 kids with conduct disorder combined with ADHD, and another with ADHD and vision issues that prevent him from having properly depth perception thereby ensuring he is always in a space he should not be (generally a person's personal space but also too close to shelves etc). Now my kids *want* to be good, I want them to be as well, I work with them on the behaviours that are acceptable, I call them on the ones that are not. But you combine hyperactivity, impulisivity and no respect for authority and being willing to commit illegal acts to get what they want regardless of who is around and you have a glimmer into what parent's like me are facing.

 

It is a slap in the face to those of us that are good parents but have kids with multiple issues that make them behave like wild animals. It is also a farce to believe that if your kid is good you get to claim it is 100% because of you. Um no, unless you have raised a brainless robot you do not get to claim it is ALL because of how perfect of a parent you are.

 

When my kids are good they are very very good, and we do get complimented. I also have been complimented for reigning in bad behaviour (like my walmart thread a few weeks back), but when they are bad they are really really bad, and they are bad the vast majority of the time. It is not because I am a lazy parent that never bothered to teach my kids the right behaviours thank you very much.

[tyydae]

I think I might have been reading the posts differently. I've read most of what's posted as, "my child knows he would never get away with that!" As in, misbehave and not face consequences.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Alte Veste Academy]

You know what, this whole thread has me irked, big time. I have posted before when I get positive comments about my kids behaviour. But honestly I get more comments about their negative behaviours than anything else. Their good behaviour is NOT 100% due to parenting. Nor is their bad behaviour 100% due to bad parenting. Guess what sometimes kids just have bad behaviour regardless of their upbringing. I have high expectations for my kids behaviour. I am on them when they screw up. Guess what they still do it. I am a good parent, but my kids are not NT and have problems. Tell you what, YOU raise 2 kids with conduct disorder combined with ADHD, and another with ADHD and vision issues that prevent him from having properly depth perception thereby ensuring he is always in a space he should not be (generally a person's personal space but also too close to shelves etc). Now my kids *want* to be good, I want them to be as well, I work with them on the behaviours that are acceptable, I call them on the ones that are not. But you combine hyperactivity, impulisivity and no respect for authority and being willing to commit illegal acts to get what they want regardless of who is around and you have a glimmer into what parent's like me are facing.

 

It is a slap in the face to those of us that are good parents but have kids with multiple issues that make them behave like wild animals. It is also a farce to believe that if your kid is good you get to claim it is 100% because of you. Um no, unless you have raised a brainless robot you do not get to claim it is ALL because of how perfect of a parent you are.

 

When my kids are good they are very very good, and we do get complimented. I also have been complimented for reigning in bad behaviour (like my walmart thread a few weeks back), but when they are bad they are really really bad, and they are bad the vast majority of the time. It is not because I am a lazy parent that never bothered to teach my kids the right behaviours thank you very much.

 

Well, non-NT kids are not most kids. This thread is about generalities, not specifics. Honestly, if most of the comments about my kids were negative and I knew darn well that it was because they were non-NT, I would self-protect against this kind of resentment and frustration by not opening up the thread to begin with.

[LucyStoner]

Of course people read the posts differently. Because like our kids, we are all different.

 

Swellmama- I totally agree, I know how discouraging people can be.

Edited October 13, 2012 by kijipt

[justLisa]

Both my kids are incredibly easy. I seriously can not remember a single fit while shopping, or major tantrum.

 

I don't know why. I would like to attribute this to my awesomeness but I think there may be a bit of luck involved :tongue_smilie:

 

I know some good parents with a kid that is just difficult. I really feel for them. I know one teacher mom. She is THE perfect example of the "perfect" mom. She has never ever lost her temper. She says exactly the "proper" thing to fit the situation. Her 4 year old is the biggest nightmare you could imagine. I love that kid, but boy does she get my utmost respect. Her older dd is exactly the opposite.

[LucyStoner]

Well, non-NT kids are not most kids. This thread is about generalities, not specifics. Honestly, if most of the comments about my kids were negative and I knew darn well that it was because they were non-NT, I would self-protect against this kind of resentment and frustration by not opening up the thread to begin with.

 

It is beyond frustrating to have people quick to judge your non-NT child as horrible without any grace or kindness shown. Sadly, that is sometimes seemingly far more common than people being kind to non-NT kids in public.

 

How many kids do you see and think your kids know they could never get away with that and how many of those kids have medical records you are fully aware of? We just can't know what is going on. No harm can come from refraining from judgement. Much good can come from accepting that we often just don't know.

[LucyStoner]

Compare it to academic and intellectual ability. My harder kid is particularly "gifted" with freaky deaky high IQ scores. I can take some credit for being a good teacher when his acheivement tests come back at the top of the charts. But I would not reasonably expect quite the same acheivement results from a child who did not share his high propensity for learning or skill set. So when I see he is doing so well I do not compare him to his peers or congratulate myself for making him this smart. For me it is similar for behavior.

[Clear Creek]

You know what, this whole thread has me irked, big time. I have posted before when I get positive comments about my kids behaviour. But honestly I get more comments about their negative behaviours than anything else. Their good behaviour is NOT 100% due to parenting. Nor is their bad behaviour 100% due to bad parenting. Guess what sometimes kids just have bad behaviour regardless of their upbringing. I have high expectations for my kids behaviour. I am on them when they screw up. Guess what they still do it. I am a good parent, but my kids are not NT and have problems. Tell you what, YOU raise 2 kids with conduct disorder combined with ADHD, and another with ADHD and vision issues that prevent him from having properly depth perception thereby ensuring he is always in a space he should not be (generally a person's personal space but also too close to shelves etc). Now my kids *want* to be good, I want them to be as well, I work with them on the behaviours that are acceptable, I call them on the ones that are not. But you combine hyperactivity, impulisivity and no respect for authority and being willing to commit illegal acts to get what they want regardless of who is around and you have a glimmer into what parent's like me are facing.

 

It is a slap in the face to those of us that are good parents but have kids with multiple issues that make them behave like wild animals. It is also a farce to believe that if your kid is good you get to claim it is 100% because of you. Um no, unless you have raised a brainless robot you do not get to claim it is ALL because of how perfect of a parent you are.

 

When my kids are good they are very very good, and we do get complimented. I also have been complimented for reigning in bad behaviour (like my walmart thread a few weeks back), but when they are bad they are really really bad, and they are bad the vast majority of the time. It is not because I am a lazy parent that never bothered to teach my kids the right behaviours thank you very much.

:grouphug: I meant to put in my post earlier that it was only applicable in families with NT kids. I didn't, and that was careless and thoughtless of me and I apologize. It was never my intent to make anyone feel bad that their children have extra challenges and that strategies that should work with a NT kid won't work with theirs. You said yourself that you have high expectations and you are on your kids when they mess up. That is all that a parent can do, and yes, the rest of the responsibility is on the kid. The point of my post was that in families that I have known for 10+ years (families with NT kids), the children that behave have parents that have high expectations and hold their children accountable to them. The children that have really bad behavior (again, NT children) have parents that don't guide their children or have any consistence in their hands-on parenting. I am just speaking in generalities here...I know that all kids have their moments! But holding kids to a standard and expecting some measure of compliance *will* make a difference. More in some kids, and less in others, but a difference nonetheless. You are being really hard on yourself because I don't think you realize how much of a difference you are making in your children's behavior. If you are getting compliments on your kids' good behavior and your corrections of poor behavior, even if your children are not well-behaved the majority of the time, that shows that what you are doing is making a difference.

 

I also don't think that a parent that has a well-behaved child can claim very much credit (much less all) for the child's behavior. I share my standards with my children, but it is up to them to comply. That was the intent of my original post...parents that don't even set a standard and consistently reinforce it will most likely get far fewer compliments on their children's good behavior.

[Alte Veste Academy]

It is beyond frustrating to have people quick to judge your non-NT child as horrible without any grace or kindness shown. Sadly, that is sometimes seemingly far more common than people being kind to non-NT kids in public.

 

How many kids do you see and think your kids know they could never get away with that and how many of those kids have medical records you are fully aware of? We just can't know what is going on. No harm can come from refraining from judgement. Much good can come from accepting that we often just don't know.

 

I agreed with you already. :)

 

I try to reserve judgment because of invisible issues.

 

And, for what it's worth, when I see a parent having a hard time with a kid in public, I give a smile and a "been there" because, again, I have.

[Mommy22alyns]

I agreed with you already. :)

 

 

 

And, for what it's worth, when I see a parent having a hard time with a kid in public, I give a smile and a "been there" because, again, I have.

 

Yep. :iagree:

[tyydae]

Please spare me all of the "refrain from judgment until..." talk, guys.

 

We all know that we live in a world where almost everyone judges a situation without knowing all of the facts. Get used to it!

 

I'm sorry, but if your child is throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the library, you are being judged. Just like if your child is gifted and scores high on his/her SAT, you are "assumed" to be a great nurturing parent. In reality, you could have been as wicked of a mother as Christina Crawford claims Joan was.

[justLisa]

Please spare me all of the "refrain from judgment until..." talk, guys.

 

We all know that we live in a world where almost everyone judges a situation without knowing all of the facts. Get used to it!

 

I'm sorry, but if your child is throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the library, you are being judged. Just like if your child is gifted and scores high on his/her SAT, you are "assumed" to be a great nurturing parent. In reality, you could have been as wicked of a mother as Christina Crawford claims Joan was.

 

To an extent. Though there ARE mothers who truly ARE sympathetic and understand there is no room for judgement .

 

Count me as one of them.

[tyydae]

To an extent. Though there ARE mothers who truly ARE sympathetic and understand there is no room for judgement .

 

Count me as one of them.

 

I totally agree with your statement, and consider myself to be sympathetic and understanding as well. However, people like us are the exception, not the norm. That's really my point.

[justLisa]

I totally agree with your statement, and consider myself to be sympathetic and understanding as well. However, people like us are the exception, not the norm. That's really my point.

 

I hear you. Thankfully there are MANY on this board :D

[tyydae]

 

I hear you. Thankfully there are MANY on this board :D

Yes, it does appear that way.

[Barb_]

All kids have their challenges, but when you spend much of the day at home, you're able to coach them closely on their behavior and choices. When children spend most of their day in the company of other kids, you don't have only your own kids' faults to manage, but the selected faults, mannerisms, and bad habits of 28-32 other kids. You are so busy putting out fires that it's a lot more difficult to grow character and pro-social traits in a positive manner.

[Susan in TN]

I do sometimes, particularly if my 7yods is not involved. When he's in the mix, I have to brace myself for the complaints and critical looks.

[LucyStoner]

Please spare me all of the "refrain from judgment until..." talk, guys.

 

We all know that we live in a world where almost everyone judges a situation without knowing all of the facts. Get used to it!

 

 

 

You know it is not universal because you say you don't. Majority behavior is rarely the litmus test of what is ideal. I personally think that there are enough people who do so grace and kindness to make it pretty darn clear that that is not the only way to live. It's not how I live and it is not how my friends live either. If I see your kid sobbing in the library, I am usually going to say something encouraging of kind. If you are frantically rocking your kid in the back of the plane and you looking you are going to start crying yourself, I have offered assistance, including rocking the baby so you can sit down and breathe for a moment or three. Much more life enhancing and beneficial that silently or not so silently glaring at you. Just "almost everyone" does, does not give anyone else any excuse or license to do so also. And while it is not as common as the witchy drive bys, it is not unheard of and is surprisingly found here and there. I have had people walk up to me and offer encouragement in a tantrum or tell me I am doing a good job after a trying experience. I also had a random young man come up and ask me if I was ok and offered a hug when I was clearly on the edge of losing it- actually this happened right after what we now call the "Great Haircut Debacle of 2011" which I detailed above.

Edited October 14, 2012 by kijipt

[Lovedtodeath]

I have the opposite problem with my 5 year old. He has never had structure in preschool, school, homeschool, or church, no reason to "behave"...

[Lovedtodeath]

There are many factors that go into whether a child is perceived as good. My best friend has a daughter with autism. She is quiet as a mouse and plays by herself all day. Babysitters and churchgoers love how well behaved she is. We had no clue that she rages when alone with her mom.

 

My daughter has different challenges and a personality that isn't afraid to speak up and ask for what she wants/needs... (she is usually perceived as well behaved too, but still, there are so many factors).

[Impish]

My eldest was an only child for 6 yrs. He went to ps. I was constantly complimented on how well mannered, well behaved he was.

 

Now I have 4 kids at home. We go out, and we hear how well mannered, well behaved they are.

 

Uh huh.

 

That's in PUBLIC. Can I say what a diff kettle of fish it is at HOME?!

 

in public, they use their manners, they sit still, they don't climb walls, run screaming down halls, huck objects...

 

But at home? :svengo:

 

All that restrained energy has to come out somewhere, I guess.

 

Overall, they're 'good' kids. But perfectly behaved all the time? Yeah, so not.

 

Honestly, given Wolf and my personalities, if they ARE being quiet and restrained at home, I'm checking them for fever. :lol: