Hockey Mom Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Please...I just need to vent somewhere 'safe'. Dh and I own a small, industry-specific business. Due to the competitive nature of this business, we have all of our new hires sign a non-compete letter prior to them working for us. This non-compete says they can not work for, or consult with any of our competitors for (2) years after they leave us, within a (50) mile radius. On Monday, one of our employees called in saying his DD was in the hospital. On Tuesday, we received no word from him...he just didn't show up for his shift. So our manager asked him if he was coming in. He replied that he didn't think so. The manager then told him that he had to show up for his shifts or we would have to let him go. The employee said he wasn't coming back ever. This particular employee misses a lot of work due to court obligations. Long story, short, we were giving him a second chance in life. Things seemed fine until I received a notice from another state looking for child support. The child support he owed was more than he made due to him always needing time off for other obligations. So I contacted that state, and worked out a payment plan with them so that he could meet that obligation and still be able to eat. It was 60% of his paycheck. So tonight, Dh was chatting with him on skype to see how his DD was, and to confirm whether the rumors we were hearing about him working for a competitor 4 miles up the street were true. He confirmed that he was working for them as a 'consultant'. But I don't believe he meant to let that slip. But there it is...in black and white. Confirmation. The time we have spent in training him on our products will be invaluable to the competitor. This has the potential to really hurt our business - and the 7 other employees we have. We are calling the attorney on Monday, but I am just sick about this. If you've made it this far, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug: That is so crummy! I hope the lawyer has good advice. We own a business too, it's so hard sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Oh my goodness, I would be sick (and ticked!) over this! I'm so sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakereese Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug: Ugh, I am sorry. I would feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Calling your attorney should provide some hope. People are not signing these non-competition agreements for nothing. He evidently thinks he is exempt. I hope he is required to find a job outside the 50 miles radius. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:What a cr@ppy thing for him to do. i am really sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Nail his butt to the wall. Can the other co be sued as well? I'm just wondering, if they hired knowing there was a non comp contract, if they could be held for some sort of breach of ethics or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Nail his butt to the wall. Can the other co be sued as well? I'm just wondering, if they hired knowing there was a non comp contract, if they could be held for some sort of breach of ethics or something... I'm wondering too. I'd be calling the competitor to let them know he signed (if, for whatever reason, they don't) and let them know they also will be sued (if possible) if they continue to let him work. It may not be possible for the latter. I'd be looking online to see if there were precedence. And I'd definitely hold him financially responsible no matter what (child support, eating, whatever). He shouldn't be above/below the law. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labst60 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 The bright side here - if there is one - is that this man has proven to not be a reliable and loyal worker - likely he'lll continue the same shenanigans at his new employer and hopefully not add much value there. So sorry that you are going through this. It stink so much b/c even if you "win", I know it will be a lot of time, energy and money! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I am so sorry, hope the lawyer can help. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 It sounds like you feel some compassion for this man, yet also feel angry and betrayed, and maybe afraid for your business. What a mix of feelings! I do hope the best thing possible happens. Don't know what that is. :grouphug: I am dying to tell about someone I know who started her own business with a confidential client list from a previous employee, but I won't go there. Let's just say money doesn't buy happiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 You might consider drafting a letter to the man, with a copy for his new employer, outlining the noncompete he signed, letting him know that based on his September 29, 2012, statement to your dh that he was consulting for the XYZ company, he was in violation of the noncompete and that you were going to aggressively prosecute to remedy this breach of contract. And possibly consider adding in there that you would also name any others who willingly and knowingly took part in his violation of the noncompete. Then you can run it quickly by the lawyer tomorrow and messenger it to the guy asap. Don't let him blab any more secrets than he already has. Also consider contacting the child support people and letting them know that he had told you that he was now working for the XYZ company - let them deal with him on that issue! If you act quickly, he may never get a paycheck from them. Then sit down with all your other employees and make sure they understand the terms of the noncompete they signed. Often people will sign anything just to get work, nevermind whether they understand it or not. Be pleasant and upbeat and point out that Joe's violation of the contract is what is triggering the meeting. But lay it out for them. Let them know how much it costs you in training time and how you can't let people come in and have you pay for their training, then take your trade secrets and go to work for the competitors. Calmly point out that everyone should care about the problem, since your company's financial wellbeing and everyone's paychecks are affected by contract violators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I'd be hurt and angry about it too, especially after you went out of your way to give this guy a chance. Hopefully he will have to leave and find work somewhere far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I'm so sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Then sit down with all your other employees and make sure they understand the terms of the noncompete they signed. Often people will sign anything just to get work, nevermind whether they understand it or not. Be pleasant and upbeat and point out that Joe's violation of the contract is what is triggering the meeting. But lay it out for them. Let them know how much it costs you in training time and how you can't let people come in and have you pay for their training, then take your trade secrets and go to work for the competitors. Calmly point out that everyone should care about the problem, since your company's financial wellbeing and everyone's paychecks are affected by contract violators. I think this is a good idea. People do sometimes just sign things without really thinking about it, and you're less likely to have a repeat of this if you make absolutely sure that all your employees are fully aware of the conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I'm so sorry. I think I'd do exactly as hillfarm outlined above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Mom Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 You might consider drafting a letter to the man, with a copy for his new employer, outlining the noncompete he signed, letting him know that based on his September 29, 2012, statement to your dh that he was consulting for the XYZ company, he was in violation of the noncompete and that you were going to aggressively prosecute to remedy this breach of contract. And possibly consider adding in there that you would also name any others who willingly and knowingly took part in his violation of the noncompete. A quick Google search for the state of Florida has current case law where you can no longer go after the competing business for this. They can claim some sort of "ignorance" defense. Then you can run it quickly by the lawyer tomorrow and messenger it to the guy asap. Don't let him blab any more secrets than he already has. Also consider contacting the child support people and letting them know that he had told you that he was now working for the XYZ company - let them deal with him on that issue! If you act quickly, he may never get a paycheck from them. That is definitely on the list of things to do tomorrow! :) Then sit down with all your other employees and make sure they understand the terms of the noncompete they signed. Often people will sign anything just to get work, nevermind whether they understand it or not. Be pleasant and upbeat and point out that Joe's violation of the contract is what is triggering the meeting. But lay it out for them. Let them know how much it costs you in training time and how you can't let people come in and have you pay for their training, then take your trade secrets and go to work for the competitors. Calmly point out that everyone should care about the problem, since your company's financial wellbeing and everyone's paychecks are affected by contract violators. All of the employees know what the non-compete form is prior to signing it. We go over it very thoroughly in our orientation with them. Thanks for your input ladies. Still reeling from this news.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 You might consider drafting a letter to the man, with a copy for his new employer, outlining the noncompete he signed, letting him know that based on his September 29, 2012, statement to your dh that he was consulting for the XYZ company, he was in violation of the noncompete and that you were going to aggressively prosecute to remedy this breach of contract. And possibly consider adding in there that you would also name any others who willingly and knowingly took part in his violation of the noncompete. Then you can run it quickly by the lawyer tomorrow and messenger it to the guy asap. Don't let him blab any more secrets than he already has. Also consider contacting the child support people and letting them know that he had told you that he was now working for the XYZ company - let them deal with him on that issue! If you act quickly, he may never get a paycheck from them. Then sit down with all your other employees and make sure they understand the terms of the noncompete they signed. Often people will sign anything just to get work, nevermind whether they understand it or not. Be pleasant and upbeat and point out that Joe's violation of the contract is what is triggering the meeting. But lay it out for them. Let them know how much it costs you in training time and how you can't let people come in and have you pay for their training, then take your trade secrets and go to work for the competitors. Calmly point out that everyone should care about the problem, since your company's financial wellbeing and everyone's paychecks are affected by contract violators. :iagree:Especially about contacting the people about the child support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 A quick Google search for the state of Florida has current case law where you can no longer go after the competing business for this. They can claim some sort of "ignorance" defense. That is definitely on the list of things to do tomorrow! :) All of the employees know what the non-compete form is prior to signing it. We go over it very thoroughly in our orientation with them. Thanks for your input ladies. Still reeling from this news.... I don't know what biz you're running, but if you have any patents, or any copyrights that the comp may be misappropriating via his violating the non comp contract, that could be a way to get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 The bright side here - if there is one - is that this man has proven to not be a reliable and loyal worker - likely he'lll continue the same shenanigans at his new employer and hopefully not add much value there. So sorry that you are going through this. It stink so much b/c even if you "win", I know it will be a lot of time, energy and money! :grouphug: :iagree: Especially once they get the same letter and need to garnish his wages for child support also (which it sounds like he's trying to get out of by switching employers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Some people from the company where dh works tried to leave and start their own company doing the exact same thing and take the clients with them. They were sued. They lost, obviously and ended up out of work and without their "company." Why do people think they'll get away with things like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 A quick Google search for the state of Florida has current case law where you can no longer go after the competing business for this. They can claim some sort of "ignorance" defense. If the other company doesn't know this (they aren't purposely doing it knowing they can skirt the law), your contacting them about it should quickly put an end to it from their end. Also, if you send the letter return receipt requested (with signature), they can no longer claim ignorance if they keep him on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Also consider contacting the child support people and letting them know that he had told you that he was now working for the XYZ company - let them deal with him on that issue! If you act quickly, he may never get a paycheck from them. I'm wondering if this played a part in him leaving. 60% of his paycheck would likely not leave him with enough to get by. Or he is just really ticked off that they are garnering those wages when he doesn't want to pay. I don't know how it works if a third party has to garner wages. I'd notify them that he's no longer working for your company and give them the name, address, and telephone number of his new employment. Is that legal and ethical? It should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Sounds like a tough situation - I'm sorry. Totally agree with hillfarm's advice. There are definitely ways to mitigate the damage this guy can do and use it as a learning opportunity/example for the rest of your staff to minimize the chances of a reoccurrence. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) This is exactly why we are very picky about giving jobs anymore to people needing second chances. My husband has been such a great employer, but every guy needing extra time off because of drug charges, felony charges, child support issues, or who has had to call in because of transportation issues made my husband crack down. Don't own your own transportation? No hire. Alcohol, drug or other court issue? No hire. Unmarried with a pregnant girlfriend? No hire. Smoker? No hire. Every single one tried smoking while on the job in a customers' lawn. The last guy like this quit and then turned around and filed for unemployment. My husband had to order his day around a phone call, waited and waited, but the the irresponsible employee never called in (seems his phone was disconnected), so it was all a waste. But, we had several forms to deal with. Yes, we are that horrible now. Most of the people who apply for the job have these issues, and every employee who had these issues missed way too much work because of court dates, drama, girlfriend needed the car today, etc. Add to that the fact that no employee ever really cares about your own business like you do, and no employee so far has ever done the work nearly as well as my husband. Edited September 30, 2012 by nestof3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 What consequences did you outline in the non-compete? If he can't pay child support, I doubt he will have money to pay a fine. If he can't work within a certain distance from your business, can you get a restraining order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Mom Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 UPDATE: We met with the attorney on Monday. The Non-Compete IS enforceable. He is sending a letter to the former employee as well as the new employer's place of business. IF the former employee chooses to fight it, we will then pursue litigation. My understanding is that the judge may require us to post a "bond" for the former employee's wages while the employee is not able to work, until the judgement is made. If the judge rules in our favor, we get the bond back (and the attorney says we have a VERY good case). If the judge rules against us, then we reimburse the former employee via the bond. While we were meeting with the attorney, he pulled the former employees record up. To say that we were negligent in not doing a background check would be an understatement. We knew about one legal issue he had (drugs). We did not know he had been arrested previously for: domestic battery, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, and 21 counts of grand theft. Needless to say, we will be conducting thorough background checks on all future employees. Thank God we have video cameras set up all over our business...and the employees all know that they are there. I believe in his case, it was a theft deterrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 :hurray: Yea! I'm happy to read your update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 We've had the same thing happen several times. Unfortunately, in CA, the law is always on the side of the employee and the non-compete clause is totally unenforceable. Sorry this is happening to you.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Lord have mercy! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Sorry :( I hope it works out in your favor! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What a nightmare situation for you to have to deal with. But after seeing the background information, you should be glad that you're rid of him. Hope that judge rules in your favor and that you don't have to wait very long for a resolution in the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What a nightmare situation for you to have to deal with. But after seeing the background information, you should be glad that you're rid of him. Hope that judge rules in your favor and that you don't have to wait very long for a resolution in the matter. :iagree: and :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What a nightmare situation for you to have to deal with. But after seeing the background information, you should be glad that you're rid of him. Hope that judge rules in your favor and that you don't have to wait very long for a resolution in the matter. :iagree: Did he give you a time frame? I'm hoping the other employer will get rid of him quickly too. One has to wonder what this guy is planning on doing with the rest of his life. You gave him a chance and he willingly blew it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Mom Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 :iagree: Did he give you a time frame? I'm hoping the other employer will get rid of him quickly too. One has to wonder what this guy is planning on doing with the rest of his life. You gave him a chance and he willingly blew it... He has (10) days to respond to the letter. If there is not a response from him, then we move forward with litigation. Yes, we would have fired him had we known about the extent of his record. He only disclosed the part of his record that required him to miss work so much (court-ordered urine tests twice a week, and drug court). Shame on us for not doing a more thorough background check on him. It won't happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug: I'm glad you got good news from the attorney. I hope you get this all settled quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What a nightmare situation for you to have to deal with. But after seeing the background information, you should be glad that you're rid of him. Hope that judge rules in your favor and that you don't have to wait very long for a resolution in the matter. :iagree:It sounds like you dodged a major bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Wow! Given your update, it sounds like it could have been an even worse situation. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I hope you hear something before the 10 days - esp from the other employer. Please post an update when you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Unmarried with a pregnant girlfriend? No hire. That would have been my brother out of a job. He averages ten years or so with a firm and has never been less than valued. He wasn't married when my two nieces were born. He and his partner, now wife, have been together for more than two decades. How do you know about the girlfriends? Around here, you can ask about past convictions, etc. at interview, but you can't ask about a candidate's personal life. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 How do you know about the girlfriends? Around here, you can ask about past convictions, etc. at interview, but you can't ask about a candidate's personal life. It's my understanding that this is not allowed in the US either. Either whether one is married or not, or whether one is pregnant or planning to become pregnant (or father children). Questions about someone's reliability are separate from whether one has children or is unmarried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Ugggh that sucks! You can lead some horses to water.... God used you to give him another change. That is such mercy. It's not your fault, and I've very sorry he blew this. I can't imagine that the competitor is going to keep him long once they find out he broke his contract. That's not exactly a stellar thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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