Can we discuss the anti-American protests??

[LucyStoner]

Where are the peaceful Muslims speaking out against the violence?

 

They are certainly there (and in the US.) Peaceful types of any religious persuasion rarely make the headlines. There are counter protests to the anti-American protests. This week the oldest Muslim organization in the US is running a blood drive called Muslims for Life in honor of 9/11 victims. We hear about the sexiest, most shocking news, not things that don't inflame/shock/outrage and sell papers and bump viewership.

 

We can hardly argue that violence in the name of religious fervor is unique to any one religion.

[Ipsey]

I am ready to explode with my thoughts on this, but I can't post them because they would be too political. I just wonder, is their "god" so impotent that they have to defend him with all this violence every time someone says anything they consider derogatory about their religion? I thought Islam is supposed to be a "peaceful" religion. :glare: Where are the peaceful Muslims speaking out against the violence?

 

 

They are out there. The Libyan and Yemeni president have apologized for the attacks. People have been arrested for the attacks in Libya. (Probably arrested by Muslims.) I heard plenty of reporting today on the majority of Muslims in these countries who are disgusted and angry about these attacks. Educate yourself, don't expect it to be fed to you. Peace doesn't make the news.

 

Consider this: I thought that Christianity was supposed to be a peaceful religion, yet I know of plenty of violence committed by Christians all over the world. Goodness, there's a Christian man promoting wife beating on the television, and abandoning ill spouses. What am I to make of that. Isn't their "god" one of love?

[Reflections]

I am ready to explode with my thoughts on this, but I can't post them because they would be too political. I just wonder, is their "god" so impotent that they have to defend him with all this violence every time someone says anything they consider derogatory about their religion? I thought Islam is supposed to be a "peaceful" religion. :glare: Where are the peaceful Muslims speaking out against the violence?

 

Here is a link to an article about your question:

 

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/

[Ipsey]

Here is a link to an article about your question:

 

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/

 

Thank you. I was looking for that.

[elegantlion]

Here is a link to an article about your question:

 

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/

 

Thank you for that link. I've been discussing this with ds today and I want to show both sides. As an aside, the child holding the sign in the first picture is just adorable, even with his English misspelling.

[mamajudy]

Here is a link to an article about your question:

 

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/

 

Thank you for the link, Katherine.

[EmilyK]

There already is quite a bit of security at US embassies and consulates- they certainly don't rely solely on local resources to keep people safe. In fact, the security at many embassies and consulates can be stifling. The State Department tries to balance keeping people safe and not keeping its employees isolated from the country they are trying to work with. It isn't easy and they're not always successful.

 

 

Thanks. Someone already quoted it, but I was referring to the report I had read that he was relying on a few local guards and video cameras, and tried to flee to a safe house with very little help. This is not meant as a slam against the Libyan people, but I can't imagine this little security was a good idea there. I feared it was the norm.

 

The other thing that looks very alarming (but maybe it isn't) is the embassies that are being "overrun" and alternative flags displayed, people rioting in the courtyard, etc. Are the people in there safe, and there is a strategic decision to let this happen, or are there concerns that something like Benghazi could happen again?

[butterflymommy]

This is not about all Muslims, this is about extremists. Further up in the thread it was mentioned that German TV is showing video of those who are supporting America.

 

It's like saying the church-who-shall-not-be named that protests at funerals is a true representation of American Christianity.

 

This is an unjust comparison. That church has barely a handful of members-- not to mention has never committed acts of wholesale slaughter-- and most christians vocally despise them and roll their eyes at the very thought of them. The same simply cannot be said for muslim terrorists, who are comparatively greater in number and actually commit acts of violence, and muslims in general, who do not wholesale condemn terrorist acts. Some do, some don't, but your comparison is way off mark.

[elegantlion]

This is an unjust comparison. That church has barely a handful of members-- not to mention has never committed acts of wholesale slaughter-- and most christians vocally despise them and roll their eyes at the very thought of them. The same simply cannot be said for muslim terrorists, who are comparatively greater in number and actually commit acts of violence, and muslims in general, who do not wholesale condemn terrorist acts. Some do, some don't, but your comparison is way off mark.

 

Yes, but people unfamiliar with our country could be mislead to see them as a true representation of how christians behave, it is not. If someone half a world away were to view their signs of hate on a news blurb and not understand how repulsive most people find them, they could be deceived into believing all Americans feel this way.

 

 

 

It was not a comparison of acts vs acts, but how a people group can be misrepresented and misinterpreted.

Edited September 14, 2012 by elegantlion

[mamajudy]

This is an unjust comparison. That church has barely a handful of members-- not to mention has never committed acts of wholesale slaughter-- and most christians vocally despise them and roll their eyes at the very thought of them. The same simply cannot be said for muslim terrorists, who are comparatively greater in number and actually commit acts of violence, and muslims in general, who do not wholesale condemn terrorist acts. Some do, some don't, but your comparison is way off mark.

 

:iagree:

[Roadrunner]

Nm

Edited September 14, 2012 by Roadrunner

[VeritasMama]

Yes, but people unfamiliar with our country could be mislead to see them as a true representation of how christians behave, it is not. If someone half a world away were to view their signs of hate on a news blurb and not understand how repulsive most people find them, they could be deceived into believing all Americans feel this way.

 

 

 

It was not a comparison of acts vs acts, but how a people group can be misrepresented and misinterpreted.

 

Governments across the Middle East have laws against blasphemy with the punishments ranging from imprisonment, tortue, to execution. These mobs are simply acting out in a way that would be considered mainstream in much of the Muslim world. I'm not saying that all Muslims agree with radical Sharia law, but radical Sharia law is widespread. The comparison is not intellectually sound.

Edited September 14, 2012 by VeritasMama

[elegantlion]

Yes, but people unfamiliar with our country could be mislead to see them as a true representation of how christians behave, it is not. If someone half a world away were to view their signs of hate on a news blurb and not understand how repulsive most people find them, they could be deceived into believing all Americans feel this way.

 

 

It was not a comparison of acts vs acts, but how a people group can be misrepresented and misinterpreted.

 

Governments across the Middle East have laws against blasphemy with the punishments ranging from imprisonment, tortue, to execution. These mobs are simply acting out in a way that would be considered mainstream in much of the Muslim world. I'm not saying that all Muslims agree with radical Sharia law, but radical Sharia law is widespread. The comparison is not intellectually sound.

 

Yet many christians believe that God does hate gays (or at least their acts), but realize that the signs and their protests are an extreme.

 

I am disturbed by these events, so I not interested in dragging this thread further off topic by further debating the soundness of my comparison. It was an example, not a beginning thesis.

 

I've been following this news all day. I had hoped to hear from some more from our Muslim members on this issue. I fear if this turns into an all Muslims are bad, Americans are all good, they won't comment at all.

[idnib]

I've been following this news all day. I had hoped to hear from some more from our Muslim members on this issue. I fear if this turns into an all Muslims are bad, Americans are all good, they won't comment at all.

 

I'm Muslim and I clicked on this thread with some serious trepidation.

 

I can contribute this:

 

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/11/4810321/cair-asks-mideast-muslims-to-ignore.html

 

"We urge that this ignorant attempt to provoke the religious feelings of Muslims in the Arabic-speaking world be ignored and that its extremist producers not be given the cheap publicity they so desperately seek. Those who created this trashy film do not represent the people of America or the Christian faith. The only proper response to intentional provocations such as this film is to redouble efforts to promote mutual understanding between faiths and to marginalize extremists of all stripes.

 

 

"We condemn the attack on the American embassy, which had nothing to do with the production of this intentionally inflammatory film."

[GWOB]

I'm Muslim and I clicked on this thread with some serious trepidation.

 

I can contribute this:

 

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/11/4810321/cair-asks-mideast-muslims-to-ignore.html

 

:grouphug: Thank you.

 

I agree with the previous posters who implied that this was a clash of, not ideologies, not quite worldviews, but just a general way of thinking. American (and most western) Muslims put down these attacks. They understand that, while the movie (which I agree wasn't the cause of the violence but the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back) was extremely offensive, this is the beauty (kinda) of living in a free society. Islam did not attack America. Extreme Muslims wanting to blame America for their society's problems attacked America. And insulting the Muslims' God only insults the Christian and Jewish God. We can find a whole lot of common ground if we just sit down and talk. Of course I am all for "Walk softly and carry a big stick" in this situation.

[Mom in High Heels]

My question (which is going in a slightly different direction) is whether there are plans to ramp up the military security in embassies and consulates in dicey planes.

 

I know the US is sending marines to Libya in specific, but I would be really worried if I had someone I knew working in an embassy or consulate anywhere in the region or even beyond. I gather there is a convention to rely on local security, but that's one thing in a developed country and another thing in these places that are on the verge of being failed states.

 

I feel bad for everyone who died, but they have focused on the dead ambassador and he seemed like a wonderful man. It is so painful to read how little security he had with him.

 

 

I have friends who just (last month) moved to an embassy in Africa (I won't say which one here) and she's been updating FB to let people know that they are safe and security has been tightened. Still, it must be frightening. They are not in a predominately Muslim country, but a rather dangerous one, none the less.

[Osmosis Mom]

I've heard that the attack had been long-planned for the 9/11 anniversary, but they used the movie as an excuse.

 

The movie itself seems to exist solely to cause controversy. Original reports said that it was made by a Jewish Israeli-American, and funded by Jewish backers. Now it's come out that the film maker is actually an Egyptian Coptic Christian using a fake name (and he seems to have a history of running a few scams). He made the movie on an obvious shoe-string, and has been pushing it for almost a year but nobody has really noticed or cared. I mean, the internet is FULL of anti-Islamic (and anti-semitic and anti-Christian and anti-everything) propaganda, so why this and why now? IMHO it was a calculated move on the part of a crazy person to incite a war in the middle east, though it has probably not panned out the way he expected.

 

 

What you wrote here is exactly the sentiment of our Muslim community here in the US (at least 99.5%). There are excitable and extremists everywhere and 9/11 is a touchy day for all of us. There was nothing naive about the making of the movie or the timeline. There are no particularly logic excuses for the reactors except for the fact that in some ways perhaps this is all they know how to react? We had a vigil last night for Ambassador Stevens and the other three diplomats and one friend mentioned how on earth the attackers were driving around town with the machine gun out for all to see. Violence begets violence.

 

Which is why - if I may take this opportunity here- the Arab spring events were rallies and not armed insurgents requesting a take over. I am Syrian and in Syria protesters were (and are) literally met by machine guns on the streets, yet, it took several months before the extreme violent response of the regime there resulted in some volunteer men and defectors from the Syrian army to slowly set up a Free Syrian army, initially with no weapons, but jokes of some old Russian machinery.

 

It is easier to scare people with violent and inhumane acts -as we are witnessing in Syria and have seen to some degree other places- and people usually then respond with fear and obedience. And when they don't obey but instead want "Freedom", then the reaction of such regimes and people working for them is to increase the level and degree of annihilation and destruction, both actual and psychological, but never does it occur to them to rationalize and work through solutions, truthfully and humbly. And while many extremist attackers from the Middle East hate their regimes, then this way of reacting is the only way they know of (referring to the attackers in Libya and the violent protesters right now). They are so loud and so extreme that they will for sure drown out moderate voices. The Libyan people worked so hard to get democracy and now these acts will tear down everything they worked for. Prophet Muhammad himself lived through verbal and physical abuse, yet despite him being powerful and very able to command his people to remove the offenders, then he was gentle and patient. Violent attackers are usually found to be non-practicing Muslims (basically just waiting for something they can blow up over).

 

Last night we held a vigil for Ambassador Stevens at Harvard Sq. which you can see some clips from here in this excellent coverage that inbues the spirit of why we were meeting and honoring this man. http://www.necn.com/09/13/12/Slain-ambassador-remembered-at-Cambridge/landing_mobile.html?blockID=772993

[Osmosis Mom]

Perhaps this is true, but I saw quite a large number of iphones/ipads in the hands of protesters (they were taking photos/video). This is all the empoverished masses. Perhaps if "economic desperation" is their reason for radicalization, they should drop the data plan.

 

This is so laughable and ridiculous a statement. As a matter of fact, access to Iphone and internet is what is empowering people in those countries to begin with since they are now witnessing through sharing on Facebook and Youtube what others are doing to get freedom. They record and particpate online with the risk of their lives and you are ridiculing them? In Syria -where a revolution is happening right now in case you had missed that- people are stopped at checkpoints and their phones and computers checked. If anyone fx. is friends with a person like me here in the States who is posting propaganda for freedom and hate-posts against the regime then that obviously shows up on their FB page and that is reason ENOUGH for that person to never again be heard from, while tortured and disappearing or dying in some scary, scary prison.

 

Data plan? Some of the comments in this thread show an extreme lack of respect for other humans while you degrade and ridicule (plural, not talking about one person only) people, people you explicitly feel are different from you all and who should not want or expect the same as you.

 

It is easy to distance one self from reality and from others' reality. Not so easy to try to figure out what is happening and why or who these people are. Why are they willing to risk their lives, their daughters and wives' being rapes in front of them, their children being killed (or tortured) if they could go on living like cattle? Isn't THAT better than losing your home, town, livelihood, your safety and that of your children, family and on and on?

 

I feel really sorry for all those people here in the States, educated people, not people who don't really care or want to reach for a book or the internet to get information, but for people of the WTM-calibre who think they deserve more than others. How many Arabs do you (plural) know? Of those Arabs, how many react with violence or violent tendencies? If you have traveled to an Arab country, were the people there violent? Or just the regimes suppressing them? Christopher Stevens was a man of peace who loved his job and loved the people he was there to share his country's diplomacy with. He was really loved there and well-respected. He believed in what he was doing, wanting and trying to help Libyans transition to democracy. He was killed by what most likely was a planned, viciously executed operation however that was related to the movie which was also produced and released with provocation in mind, but the people reacting were not representatives of anyone but a small number of extremists and now we are going to ridicule everyone from a country or a region. These smart phones have been the LINK to people and from the east to the west and have almost exclusively been the way of getting information out to document what is happening or what rallies or atrocities are taking place. They are not items of status symbols, but means of survival, mentally and physically.

[Pretty in Pink]

This is so laughable and ridiculous a statement. As a matter of fact, access to Iphone and internet is what is empowering people in those countries to begin with since they are now witnessing through sharing on Facebook and Youtube what others are doing to get freedom. They record and particpate online with the risk of their lives and you are ridiculing them? In Syria -where a revolution is happening right now in case you had missed that- people are stopped at checkpoints and their phones and computers checked. If anyone fx. is friends with a person like me here in the States who is posting propaganda for freedom and hate-posts against the regime then that obviously shows up on their FB page and that is reason ENOUGH for that person to never again be heard from, while tortured and disappearing or dying in some scary, scary prison.

 

Data plan? Some of the comments in this thread show an extreme lack of respect for other humans while you degrade and ridicule (plural, not talking about one person only) people, people you explicitly feel are different from you all and who should not want or expect the same as you.

 

It is easy to distance one self from reality and from others' reality. Not so easy to try to figure out what is happening and why or who these people are. Why are they willing to risk their lives, their daughters and wives' being rapes in front of them, their children being killed (or tortured) if they could go on living like cattle? Isn't THAT better than losing your home, town, livelihood, your safety and that of your children, family and on and on?

 

I feel really sorry for all those people here in the States, educated people, not people who don't really care or want to reach for a book or the internet to get information, but for people of the WTM-calibre who think they deserve more than others. How many Arabs do you (plural) know? Of those Arabs, how many react with violence or violent tendencies? If you have traveled to an Arab country, were the people there violent? Or just the regimes suppressing them? Christopher Stevens was a man of peace who loved his job and loved the people he was there to share his country's diplomacy with. He was really loved there and well-respected. He believed in what he was doing, wanting and trying to help Libyans transition to democracy. He was killed by what most likely was a planned, viciously executed operation however that was related to the movie which was also produced and released with provocation in mind, but the people reacting were not representatives of anyone but a small number of extremists and now we are going to ridicule everyone from a country or a region. These smart phones have been the LINK to people and from the east to the west and have almost exclusively been the way of getting information out to document what is happening or what rallies or atrocities are taking place. They are not items of status symbols, but means of survival, mentally and physically.

 

Thank you for posting. I have (enjoyed is not the right word given the subject matter)...just, thank you.

 

FWIW I absolutely do not believe that the men who carry out these acts of atrocity are representative of the Muslim community at large. I just don't believe that, I can't. :grouphug:

[IsabelC]

Nadia, tried to msg you but your box is full. Thanks for your helpful post.

[Kate in Arabia]

This is so laughable and ridiculous a statement.

:iagree: There are no Apple stores in Libya, Egypt or Yemen (or Syria for that matter). The vast majority of people there couldn't afford to buy a new one at cost even if there were. They get used ones, knock-offs, or as gifts from friends/family in the west. Every year we travel home we are asked by Yemeni friends here to look for cheap, used iPhones for them.

[EmmaNZ]

YI fear if this turns into an all Muslims are bad, Americans are all good, they won't comment at all.

 

Muslim here and sorry, this is true. It's just not worth the effort to try and dismantle the deep-rooted prejudice.

 

 

And insulting the Muslims' God only insults the Christian and Jewish God. We can find a whole lot of common ground if we just sit down and talk.

:iagree:Wholeheartedly.

 

And if you really want to put off muslims from joining in - add a sarcastic tag like the one we've got.

[Kate in Arabia]

And if you really want to put off muslims from joining in - add a sarcastic tag like the one we've got.

We've already got digs against Islam/Muslims, a link to the writings of a man who inspired Anders Breivik, and a snide comment about our president.

[deacongirl]

I think this article sheds some light:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/the-muslim-protests-two-myths-down-three-to-go/262375/

[Lisbeth]

This is an unjust comparison. That church has barely a handful of members-- not to mention has never committed acts of wholesale slaughter-- and most christians vocally despise them and roll their eyes at the very thought of them. The same simply cannot be said for muslim terrorists, who are comparatively greater in number and actually commit acts of violence, and muslims in general, who do not wholesale condemn terrorist acts. Some do, some don't, but your comparison is way off mark.

 

I agree. Imagine if Mormons started going nuts and storming Broadway over The Book of Mormon? In the Christian ethos it is extremely rare because it is directly against the teachings of Jesus. The outcry in the Christian world would be bih, loud, and immediate. Thete is NO comparison.

 

The Crusades were a long time ago, and they have been historically misrepresented.

[VinNY]

This is so laughable and ridiculous a statement. As a matter of fact, access to Iphone and internet is what is empowering people in those countries to begin with since they are now witnessing through sharing on Facebook and Youtube what others are doing to get freedom. They record and particpate online with the risk of their lives and you are ridiculing them? In Syria -where a revolution is happening right now in case you had missed that- people are stopped at checkpoints and their phones and computers checked. If anyone fx. is friends with a person like me here in the States who is posting propaganda for freedom and hate-posts against the regime then that obviously shows up on their FB page and that is reason ENOUGH for that person to never again be heard from, while tortured and disappearing or dying in some scary, scary prison.

 

Data plan? Some of the comments in this thread show an extreme lack of respect for other humans while you degrade and ridicule (plural, not talking about one person only) people, people you explicitly feel are different from you all and who should not want or expect the same as you.

 

It is easy to distance one self from reality and from others' reality. Not so easy to try to figure out what is happening and why or who these people are. Why are they willing to risk their lives, their daughters and wives' being rapes in front of them, their children being killed (or tortured) if they could go on living like cattle? Isn't THAT better than losing your home, town, livelihood, your safety and that of your children, family and on and on?

 

I feel really sorry for all those people here in the States, educated people, not people who don't really care or want to reach for a book or the internet to get information, but for people of the WTM-calibre who think they deserve more than others. How many Arabs do you (plural) know? Of those Arabs, how many react with violence or violent tendencies? If you have traveled to an Arab country, were the people there violent? Or just the regimes suppressing them? Christopher Stevens was a man of peace who loved his job and loved the people he was there to share his country's diplomacy with. He was really loved there and well-respected. He believed in what he was doing, wanting and trying to help Libyans transition to democracy. He was killed by what most likely was a planned, viciously executed operation however that was related to the movie which was also produced and released with provocation in mind, but the people reacting were not representatives of anyone but a small number of extremists and now we are going to ridicule everyone from a country or a region. These smart phones have been the LINK to people and from the east to the west and have almost exclusively been the way of getting information out to document what is happening or what rallies or atrocities are taking place. They are not items of status symbols, but means of survival, mentally and physically.

 

My husband's family was from Syria. They emigrated because as christians they were being persecuted . My brother-in-laws are gentle, giving people. They have become police officers, firemen and business people. My husband had a bit of a wild streak (liked to get into fights..as did his uncle) But I have Irish cousins like that ,too:lol:

 

We need to remember that many Arabs are not Muslim and are not feeling welcome in their birth places.

[Osmosis Mom]

They were not welcome in Syria? That is a first and I would like more information. In Syria we have very few Jews, Christians (different dominations from here), Alawites, Druzes and people have had and have no problems living together. The spokesperson in Boston for a Free Syria and a member of Syrian National Council is a Christian (George Stifo) and our neighbours in Syria are likewise and are like our family. I am seriously curious about what happened to your husband's family because right now Bashar Al-Assad's biggest claim to his presidency is to keep alive the fear that the 75% Muslims will take over and quench their neighbours who are out dying on the streets with them right now, fighting.

[Jane in NC]

I agree. Imagine if Mormons started going nuts and storming Broadway over The Book of Mormon? In the Christian ethos it is extremely rare because it is directly against the teachings of Jesus. The outcry in the Christian world would be bih, loud, and immediate. Thete is NO comparison.

 

The Crusades were a long time ago, and they have been historically misrepresented.

 

Not to derail the thread, but I fear that Christians have produced their own extremists.

 

Mormons may not have stormed Broadway in recent years, but what about the Meadows Mountain massacre?

 

Consider the Ku Klux Klan with its history of violence against blacks, Jews and Catholics.

 

What about the guy in Norway who massacred 77 people in 2011 because he felt that his traditional religious values were being undermined by immigrants?

 

Again, I am not trying to derail the discussion of current events by bringing up historical ones but I have discomfort when broad brushes come out to paint one group as this and another group as that. Life is usually far more complex.

[elegantlion]

 

Last night we held a vigil for Ambassador Stevens at Harvard Sq. which you can see some clips from here in this excellent coverage that inbues the spirit of why we were meeting and honoring this man. http://www.necn.com/09/13/12/Slain-ambassador-remembered-at-Cambridge/landing_mobile.html?blockID=772993

 

I'm Muslim and I clicked on this thread with some serious trepidation.

 

I can contribute this:

 

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/11/4810321/cair-asks-mideast-muslims-to-ignore.html

 

Thank you for these. I will share them with ds this morning as well as your additional comments.

[Melinda in VT]

I agree. Imagine if Mormons started going nuts and storming Broadway over The Book of Mormon? In the Christian ethos it is extremely rare because it is directly against the teachings of Jesus. The outcry in the Christian world would be bih, loud, and immediate. Thete is NO comparison.

 

The Crusades were a long time ago, and they have been historically misrepresented.

 

You are attributing to the virtues of Christianity benefits that come from living in a secular society. My study of history has not shown me that Christians are inherently less violent than Muslims.

[Roadrunner]

You are attributing to the virtues of Christianity benefits that come from living in a secular society. My study of history has not shown me that Christians are inherently less violent than Muslims.

 

And prosperous wealthy society.

[Mom in High Heels]

Oy, now they're storming German and British embassies in the Sudan. This has nothing to do with the "film."

[TXMomof4]

The question I have is what is an appropriate response? Quite honestly ( and yes I'm sure I'll be flamed) I don't care about their motivation. I'm sick to death of Americans being d*mned if we do, d*mned if we don't. People are angry with the lack of intervention in Syria, but angry over American involvement in Libya. They think Americans are awful for buying oil from these countries, but where would their economies be without American trade? They don't want American involvement in their country but want our financial aid (which we can hardly afford). I am completely sympathetic to the plight of oppressed people but why keep feeding the people that have no hesitation in bitng that helping hand. Where's the line?

[mlbuchina]

The question I have is what is an appropriate response? Quite honestly ( and yes I'm sure I'll be flamed) I don't care about their motivation. I'm sick to death of Americans being d*mned if we do, d*mned if we don't. People are angry with the lack of intervention in Syria, but angry over American involvement in Libya. They think Americans are awful for buying oil from these countries, but where would their economies be without American trade? They don't want American involvement in their country but want our financial aid (which we can hardly afford). I am completely sympathetic to the plight of oppressed people but why keep feeding the people that have no hesitation in bitng that helping hand. Where's the line?

 

:iagree: I know what I want to happen, but this is not the place to express it.

[TravelingChris]

Mom. You are so right. The movie has been out for more than a half a year. The youtube video was out since July. I looked up various violent protests over so-called insults to Moslems and have seen riots over Teddy Bears, cartoons, books, this youtube video, athletic shoes, Burger King ice cream, what have you. There are manipulators who are manipulating outrage and these riots. Obviously there are people in these countries who don't like Westerners. But there definitely are some who have no problems with us. The exact proportions differ in different countries.

 

However, I can say that it is quite obvious that the security was not adequate.

[mamajudy]

The question I have is what is an appropriate response? Quite honestly ( and yes I'm sure I'll be flamed) I don't care about their motivation. I'm sick to death of Americans being d*mned if we do, d*mned if we don't. People are angry with the lack of intervention in Syria, but angry over American involvement in Libya. They think Americans are awful for buying oil from these countries, but where would their economies be without American trade? They don't want American involvement in their country but want our financial aid (which we can hardly afford). I am completely sympathetic to the plight of oppressed people but why keep feeding the people that have no hesitation in bitng that helping hand. Where's the line?

 

:iagree:

 

I suppose the appropriate response would be to take away our freedom of speech so that we don't hurt anyone's feelings. :glare:

Sorry, but speaking the truth is not "hate speech". And speaking out against someone is not the same as violence and murder.

[QueenCat]

:iagree:

 

I suppose the appropriate response would be to take away our freedom of speech so that we don't hurt anyone's feelings. :glare:

Sorry, but speaking the truth is not "hate speech". And speaking out against someone is not the same as violence and murder.

 

Unfortunately, the more I hear about the people who produced the video, the more sure I am that their purpose was to instill hate and encourage violence. Truth was not a part of their plan, in fact they lied about who funded them, according to NPR.

[TXMomof4]

Even though I think your statement is in extremely poor taste, nasty, and not needed--do you know that the cost of cell phones/usage is greater in the US than many countries, so that even impoverished people in countries such as Libya are still able to have a cell phone coverage, even if their phones are second hand? I think 90% of S Korea has cell coverage that is 200 times faster than the USA!

Perhaps you should learn a bit more, though, about what economic desperation entails.

I honestly believe that too many still think people in the middle east are somehow still living in medieval times, and seeing modern cars , universities,and cell phones, etc comes as a surprise.

 

It isn't living conditions that make me question the advancement of their society. Its the fact that the government allowed virginity tests of women in the streets. A child being arrestedin Pakistan for burning paper said to possibly be religious. Honor killings??? Stoning for adultery. These are the things that hurt my heart for the future of these countries. If that is allowed and accepted - how can you possibly carry on a conversation without some common grounds.

[Pretty in Pink]

:iagree:

 

I suppose the appropriate response would be to take away our freedom of speech so that we don't hurt anyone's feelings. :glare:

Sorry, but speaking the truth is not "hate speech". And speaking out against someone is not the same as violence and murder.

 

To what truth are you referring? People certainly have a right in this country to speak their minds, but I'd hardly equate the video in question with truth on any level.

[mirth]

Even though I think your statement is in extremely poor taste, nasty, and not needed--do you know that the cost of cell phones/usage is greater in the US than many countries, so that even impoverished people in countries such as Libya are still able to have a cell phone coverage, even if their phones are second hand?

 

What I got from labst60 (in post #53) is the opinion that the recent violence is not rooted in differences in wealth but in ideaology.

[KathyBC]

Oh my goodness! They were airing clips from it last night... it looked like something my kids could have put together. If it cost $5 million dollars, I don't know how!

[lisamarie]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html

 

What I want to know is...what's up with all of the classification leaks going on lately? Is this normal or just being reported more?

[mamajudy]

Unfortunately, the more I hear about the people who produced the video, the more sure I am that their purpose was to instill hate and encourage violence. Truth was not a part of their plan, in fact they lied about who funded them, according to NPR.

 

I was not referring to the video. I was referring to the constant attack on our freedom of speech by anyone who is offended by what another person has to say. Yes, they have a right to object, but when they pass laws prohibiting certain opinions to be expressed, or ban businesses from their community because of the opinion of the owner, there's a problem. Sorry to get off topic, I think I'll bow out.

[jeninok]

Oh my goodness! They were airing clips from it last night... it looked like something my kids could have put together. If it cost $5 million dollars, I don't know how!

 

 

Here is a recent article I found about the film maker and costs.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anti-islam-film-producer-wrote-script-prison-authorities/story?id=17230609#.UFNeB7IiaK8

 

I highly recommend going to NPR, PBS, or foreign news sources for factual information regarding world events. With the current political climate in the US, as well as the awful lack of substance and trend towards sensationalism, our news seems to have lately I really find that there are few really reliable domestic sources for international affairs. (Yes, I know the source I posted was from ABC!)

Edited September 14, 2012 by jeninok

[Amirah]

:iagree:

 

 

Muslim here and sorry, this is true. It's just not worth the effort to try and dismantle the deep-rooted prejudice.

 

 

:iagree:Wholeheartedly.

 

And if you really want to put off muslims from joining in - add a sarcastic tag like the one we've got.

[Marianne in TX]

My husband's family was from Syria. They emigrated because as christians they were being persecuted . My brother-in-laws are gentle, giving people. They have become police officers, firemen and business people. My husband had a bit of a wild streak (liked to get into fights..as did his uncle) But I have Irish cousins like that ,too:lol:

 

We need to remember that many Arabs are not Muslim and are not feeling welcome in their birth places.

 

The following appeal is from the Orthodox Christian Patriarchate in Antioch.

 

http://www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/letter_of_patriarch.pdf

[TravelingChris]

NO, there have been many security leaks and there is an ongoing Senate investigation of it. Apparently it is coming from someone at the White House and some of it may be for political reasons, to make the administration look stronger on defense. Whatever the reason, and I don't think that the other leaks- about a double agent we had working for us, the Osama Bin Laden raid (the killing was not a leak but their are aspects of the raid that were classified and were leaked hence the arrest of a Pakastani doctor whose help we relied on to verify the identity of Bin Laden before we raided and said doctor now has a 30 year sentence)- are necessarily related to this leak. I think this was probably done by a Libyan national who was paid to be one of the guards and who knew the movements. Sean Smith, the consulate official who was killed, messaged gamers two days before his death that Libyans were taking photographs of the consulate.

[Marianne in TX]

I'm Muslim and I clicked on this thread with some serious trepidation.

 

I can contribute this:

 

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/11/4810321/cair-asks-mideast-muslims-to-ignore.html

 

Thank you for this. I'm glad you clicked.:grouphug:

[QueenCat]

NO, there have been many security leaks and there is an ongoing Senate investigation of it. Apparently it is coming from someone at the White House and some of it may be for political reasons, to make the administration look stronger on defense.

 

I hope they (whoever is telling you this) have proof of this before saying things like this in public, as that is extremely libelous if not true... and it sounds rather suspect to me as not being quite accurate. Sounds like things people say to disparage politicians that they don't like. I have heard nothing about this from reliable news sources.

[Marianne in TX]

Here is a link to an article about your question:

 

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/

 

I was very moved to see this in my Flipboard news the other day.