garddwr Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Dd8 is extremely upset because I told her we need to spay our female cat. Partly because we lost a cat last year (I think she ate something poisonous--she sickened very suddenly) and dd associated her dying with the fact that she had been spayed fairly recently. The cat we have is sister to the one we lost, and I told the children we would let her have kittens and keep one of them (in remembrance of our lost cat) but then planned to have her and the kitten spayed. I have talked myself in circles about how cats multiply much faster than people and how there could never be enough homes for all the cats if we did not limit there population. She knows about animals being euthanized by shelters (and is horrified by the idea) but is equally horrified at the thought of not letting them have babies. Please if you have addressed this issue with your children and have advice on how to help her understand, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I explained to my children that spaying/neutering was better for my pet healthwise and that if we didn't, we would have to accept responsibility for the thousands of cats that cat could produce. My kids got it right away. Now letting her rest enough after surgery, not so much. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 She knows about animals being euthanized by shelters (and is horrified by the idea) but is equally horrified at the thought of not letting them have babies. Could it be an emotional response because she likes cute baby animals? I wouldn't really worry about it, honestly. You've explained the reasons. She knows what they are even if she doesn't like them. I've discovered that I can't and don't need to always convince my kids to think my way. I just explain my reasons and go about my business. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroppinIt Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's apparently my bedtime. I read your question as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children." Hmm. In answer to your real question, I would say that there are so many animals in shelters that already need homes and families. If our cat had a litter, some of those homeless animals wouldn't get a loving home. I would also explain that animals aren't attached to their kids like people are and that an animal can lead a full, happy life without babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I just explained that there aren't enough homes for all the pets already alive. And that many are killed or lead bad lives. I think it's easier that they've lived in the country and are well aware of the feral animal issues. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Send them over to my house so they can see the FIFTEEN CATS I have outside (some indoors) because of one feral mother that I had a heck of a time catching to be spayed. Two of her kittens were hit crossing the road, because such is the life of a feral cat. We finally got her and took her in to be spayed (she was even pregnant at the time), and her life...and mine...is much better. The fact is the world does not need more cats and it is irresponsible to allow them to come into the world. I wouldn't explain it any further than that and I would also have Fluffy into the vet faster than you can blink. It honestly wouldn't be an issue for me if my 8 year old didn't understand my reasoning. She doesn't need to. She's a child and would have no say in that sort of decision. Children don't have the wisdom at that age to make good choices. You could add that non-spayed females have VERY high rates of breast and uterine cancer and that every time you allow her to go into heat, you increase that risk. But seriously...get her spayed. Kittens are very hard to place these days. I placed ONE out of the 15. One. No one wants a cat. Edited April 20, 2012 by DianeW88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohru Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Could it be an emotional response because she likes cute baby animals? I wouldn't really worry about it, honestly. You've explained the reasons. She knows what they are even if she doesn't like them. I've discovered that I can't and don't need to always convince my kids to think my way. I just explain my reasons and go about my business. Tara :iagree: Yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Could it be an emotional response because she likes cute baby animals? I wouldn't really worry about it, honestly. You've explained the reasons. She knows what they are even if she doesn't like them. I've discovered that I can't and don't need to always convince my kids to think my way. I just explain my reasons and go about my business. Tara :iagree: You've explained the reasons, but she still feels bad that it needs to be done--and that's OK. Sometimes doing the responsible thing is unpleasant and doesn't make us feel good, and that's also a valuable lesson. I felt terrible for our cats when I saw them stumbling around while coming off the sedation after their surgeries, and I even posted about it here. It was still the right decision to have them fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaceyinLA Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 We missed ONE out of the couple dozen we have taken in over the last 12 years. I now have her confined until delivery so I can contain her until the kittens are a few weeks old and they can all go in for her to get spayed. We will keep all the kittens as I feel it is my responsibility since I failed to get her fixed in time. They will ALL be fixed as SOON as possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I understand. My kids are still mad at us that we had our dog fixed. She was a stray that we adopted, but she went into heat before we could have her spayed and fortunately we were able to keep her from getting pregnant. But we had to explain to the boys what in the world was going on with her, and they were very excited that she could have puppies and very annoyed with DH and I when we told them we'd be taking her in to make sure she didn't. They still say "the next time Misha can have puppies" and get disappointed all over again when we remind them that she never will. They think I am very mean, and my seven year old even told me maybe I should be the one to get fixed then. LOL. (I am currently expecting baby #5) Aw, well. Someday they'll understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Could it be an emotional response because she likes cute baby animals? I wouldn't really worry about it, honestly. You've explained the reasons. She knows what they are even if she doesn't like them. I've discovered that I can't and don't need to always convince my kids to think my way. I just explain my reasons and go about my business. Tara :iagree: :iagree: You've explained the reasons, but she still feels bad that it needs to be done--and that's OK. Sometimes doing the responsible thing is unpleasant and doesn't make us feel good, and that's also a valuable lesson. I felt terrible for our cats when I saw them stumbling around while coming off the sedation after their surgeries, and I even posted about it here. It was still the right decision to have them fixed. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmommy Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Could it be an emotional response because she likes cute baby animals? I wouldn't really worry about it, honestly. You've explained the reasons. She knows what they are even if she doesn't like them. I've discovered that I can't and don't need to always convince my kids to think my way. I just explain my reasons and go about my business. Tara :iagree:Yep, I honestly dont think any of my kids ever questioned it. I just expained what it meant and that it was the responsible thing to do for several reasons. To prevent bringing more unwanted pets into the world and because there are many health benefits for our dogs and cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I need some coffee this morning because I read your title 'How to explain reasons for spaying and neutering children'! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I need some coffee this morning because I read your title 'How to explain reasons for spaying and neutering children'! :lol: Me too! I was hoping I wasn't the only one thinking that. Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Me too! I was hoping I wasn't the only one thinking that. Lol! Me too, me too!!!! :lol: I was just thinking, "Boy, I have heard some WEIRD parenting philosophies before, but this one really takes the cake!!!!" :confused: That reminds me of all those BEAST ACADEMY posts, I always see "BREAST" academy and wonder what on earth that is! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I'm so cheesy. If I really wanted to push the understanding, I'd turn it into a math problem with manipulatives. Get out the monopoly houses and some counting blocks, different color for each generation. Then try to find homes for each block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Wow. I'm REALLY cheesy. I think I'm going to do this today just for the heck of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Whoa! I so read the topic of this thread wrong.. for whatever reason I read it as though you were implying you were planning to do so to your children. :001_huh: :leaving: We just tell our children that our dog can't have pups. We don't go into detail. Mind you we adopted him in that position all ready, but the child wanted a "girl dog so they can have pups like 101 Dalmatians." when he asked "why" I said, "because caring for more dogs is hard work & expensive. We couldn't keep them all. Some of those might find homes, some might have to go to the dog adoption home, & they'd feel sad. It's best for us to be sure our pup doesn't have puppies." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 In our home, it is not even a question. Pets are spayed or neutered and it's just part of owning a pet. Period. There are too many unwanted pets and spayed/neutered pets are healthier. I think it's easier that they've lived in the country and are well aware of the feral animal issues. :( :iagree: Once we moved to a rural area, my kids were shocked by the number of abandoned and feral animals :(. You could add that non-spayed females have VERY high rates of breast and uterine cancer and that every time you allow her to go into heat, you increase that risk. :iagree: I worked for a cat exclusive veterinary hospital and can attest to this first hand. Here's more info: Breast tumors occur frequently in unspayed cats. Eighty percent are malignant (adenocarcinoma).Eighty percent!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Whoa! I so read the topic of this thread wrong.. for whatever reason I read it as though you were implying you were planning to do so to your children. :001_huh: :leaving: Whew! I'm not the only one that read that wrong the first time! I would recommend a field trip to a shelter. I worked in the shelter system for 3 years. It was city run shelter. We put down 200 animals every night, 6 days a week. And we got in 300 animals every day, 7 days a week. You don't need to tell her all those statistics but seeing all the animals waiting for homes should have an impact on why we don't need more. Those other kittens your cat might have and you're not keeping might not be fixed, they can have babies, who will then have babies, etc. You can also approach it from a medical viewpoint. Cats who are neutered live longer and have a better chance of avoiding certain cancers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garddwr Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 This unfortunately is my high-emotions, anxiety prone child, and I need to keep her down off of the emotional cliff she gets herself onto. I kind of knew she associated our last cat dying with her being spayed, but I hadn't realized until talking with her yesterday how strong that association was. Now I have to somehow undo that, but I'm not sure how--it's an emotional and not rational connection. The cat died about a month after being spayed, I found her with severe diarrhea late one night and by next morning she was gone. Maybe if I have a vet talk to her about how that could not have been related to the spaying--our best guess was poisoning of some kind. The only other time she had seen the cat act sick was when we brought her home from the clinic after her surgery, maybe that is what made the connection for her??? It's never been a question of her getting to make the decision, but I need to help her through processing--I have seen her hold onto being upset or angry about things for a very long time. Sigh--why is parenting so hard sometimes? I guess I should be grateful it's only one child having a problem with this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ah, I see. Then a shelter is definitely not the way to go! Sorry! I would definitely have her talk with the vet that did the surgery and the vet that saw her at the end (if not the same). FWIW, that same shelter did over 30 spays/neuters a day and I never heard of one dying. Not one. Maybe talking to a professional would help break that connection between the spay and her death. I'm so sorry you're going through this! I have a sensitive animal lover, too. Sorry, I suggested a harsher idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This unfortunately is my high-emotions, anxiety prone child, and I need to keep her down off of the emotional cliff she gets herself onto. I kind of knew she associated our last cat dying with her being spayed, but I hadn't realized until talking with her yesterday how strong that association was. Now I have to somehow undo that, but I'm not sure how--it's an emotional and not rational connection. The cat died about a month after being spayed, I found her with severe diarrhea late one night and by next morning she was gone. Maybe if I have a vet talk to her about how that could not have been related to the spaying--our best guess was poisoning of some kind. The only other time she had seen the cat act sick was when we brought her home from the clinic after her surgery, maybe that is what made the connection for her??? It's never been a question of her getting to make the decision, but I need to help her through processing--I have seen her hold onto being upset or angry about things for a very long time. Sigh--why is parenting so hard sometimes? I guess I should be grateful it's only one child having a problem with this! I have a very emotional son, so I get it. He doesn't eat chicken because we own chickens. "We don't eat dog and cat! Why would we eat chicken?" says my son. He is 12 and will bring up emotionally upsetting things that happened when he was 7, or younger! I have to be careful with what I say to him in these situations because what may seem to us like "processing" is actually feeding their anxiety. It's giving validity to their fear. In this case, I think you need to tread carefully in making *surgery* a concern. What if a family member needed surgery? You can only explain the facts. Once the cat comes out of surgery just fine, she should be able to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 To an 8y/old I'd explain it and not expect them to understand or like it. This is one of those cases of doing what you have to do as a parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It might also be worth explaining that cats don't have the same categories in their heads as we do. As a young girl your daughter may be imagining someday what her life will be like as a mother, thinking about what she'll name her babies and so forth. Cats are much more in the moment individuals who don't have that kind of long term thinking. It isn't like spaying the cat is taking away her long held dreams of being a mom. By instinct she would care for her kittens, at least usually they do, but it isn't like they have dreams or expectations similar to their dreams. I do think it is reasonable to "do the math" - we get too many kitties is different than really calculating as a math problem how many kitties we would get. It is important to remember that humans have created the domestic pet situation, we've removed predators, we've bred them to have cute ears or whatever, so we bear responsibility here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 So, we gave it a shot. Don't know if this link will work... We ran out of cubes. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150694017134022.404994.765234021&type=3&l=d4f715af71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Make sure to tell her that Mama Cats don't give a rat's "you know what" about their kittens after a certain period of time. They are not humans. They don't have the same emotions. The mama cat around here slaps and fights with her grown kittens if they get too close. She'll tolerate their presence...but just barely. She attacked one of her four month old kittens for attempting to use the litter box she considered "hers". They don't love their kittens. They care for them out of instinct. And I can assure you the mama cat was not anticipating with joy any more upcoming litters. Kittens are an unwanted annoyance to most mother cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 When my kid who is somewhat anxious gets worried about something, I must say I usually just have to move on and stop explaining. It's a bit contrary to my nature and to how I usually want to teach, with discussion and helping kids think through things. But the fact that this is non-negotiable would help clarify it for me. You have to spay the cat. End of story. I think there's a way in which keeping explaining it over and over can make kids feel (even if we didn't say it) that it is negotiable or that it's happening over and over instead of just being talked about or up in the air or whatever. I would make clear that it's settled and you've explained as best you can and you'll talk about it if she needs to, but then don't offer to and act like it's finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I keep misreading this title as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children?" :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I told my kids that to be a good pet owner you have to spay/neuter your pet. That not doing so meant that we cared more about it having babies than about the pet we have. We had a cat have kittens because she got pregnant before we got her spayed (she was not even 6 months old yet when she got pregnant). So they have seen a pet have babies which was cool BUT I have always stressed that to be a good pet owner you have to do certain things. I am matter of fact about it. To be a good pet owner you have to feed you pet, give it lots of love, walk it if it is a dog, take it to the vet for check ups and get it spayed/neutered. I didn't argue with them about it, or talk in circles I just made it very matter of fact that that is what is done, period. Just like you brush your teeth before bed, and wear a seat belt, the pet must be fixed. That doesn't work for all families but in mine it did. They were not happy that there would be no kittens/puppies. Even my big kids knowing my rules on this still hoped I would let our new puppy grow up and have her own puppies. They are not happy about it but they don't keep questioning it, or crying etc. It is what it is, and to be a good pet owner that's what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I keep misreading this title as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children?":lol: I have read it that way a few times too. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 In your case, I think I lean more towards what farrar has said. I don't know that logically reasoning with her will help and it's possible that continuing the discussion makes it more difficult. Aside from that, taking her with when it's time to go and asking the vet to help explain things might be helpful. All of which is outside my first instinct which would be to turn it into a science lesson about the impact of an out of balance element in an eco-system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's apparently my bedtime. I read your question as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children." Hmm. I thought the same thing on the first read through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearWallowSchool Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's apparently my bedtime. I read your question as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children. I did the same thing! :eek: :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 My kids had always known that most kittens and puppies get euthanized so they never had any issues with it. ALl three have grown up strongly believing in spay and neutering pets unless you are doing responsible breeding. To us, responsible breeding is only breeding healthy, well behaved animals with other healthy, well behaved animals of the same breed and testing for genetic issues that can be tested for. We leave that up to people who have time to do responsible breeding. We don't and so we spay and neuter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I keep misreading this title as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children?":lol: I have read it that way a few times too. :lol: I thought the same thing on the first read through! I did the same thing! :eek: :lol::lol::lol: me too! every time I glance at it, I have to stop for a second and read more closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuff Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Thread titles you should not skim quickly. "How to spay/neuter children?" ETA- :lol: Guess I'm not the only one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's apparently my bedtime. I read your question as, "How to explain reasons to spay/neuter children." Hmm. :lol: Me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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