My cautionary tale

[LMA]

The top scorers for the MCAS test in Massachusetts get free tuition at any state school. My nephew got one of these scholarships but chose to pay out-of-state tuition instead.

 

Homeschoolers are not eligible for the scholarship or for taking the MCAS, however.

 

http://www.doe.mass.edu/mcas/adams.html

[leeannpal]

I think parents and kids today are going to have to be more realistic and creative than people were 10-20 years ago. Most colleges offer online classes in which students can work at least part-time, live at home and work on their degrees. The military provides the G.I. bill which is how my husband got his undergraduate degree. The traditional college experience is actually going to be going away in the future as education becomes more streamlined and technology based.

 

My daughter is 9, and we have nothing saved for college. She is very bright and may end up with scholarships, but I'm not going to count on that. Hopefully, we will have some money to put back, but, at this point, I am going to assume that my daughter will not have the typical live on campus for 4 years college experience.

Edited April 19, 2012 by leeannpal

[creekland]

There are so many important ideas shared on this thread, but I'd hate for the take away for parents, especially parents of younger kids, is that there is no hope and it is all doom and gloom. Many of the strategies shared here are good and do work for a lot of people. Yes, you need to plan for your specific kid and do your own research, but I saw several ideas mentioned here that I have seen used successfully including:

 

 

 

• Applying strategically to schools where your child will be at the top of the applicant pool.

• Look at percent of financial need met by potential schools.

• Save money early.

• Taking test prep seriously - recognize it weighs more heavily for homeschoolers.

• Earning credits through dual enrollment, CLEP, AP.

• Lowering costs by living at home.

• ROTC or military service

• Two years at community college.

 

 

There is no one size fits all. There are many situations which these approaches won't work, but there are many other students who are using them successfully. I am just concerned that people are going to read this and thing forget about it - we are sunk. This doesn't encourage the research and planning that will allow you to maximize the options you do have.

 

:iagree:

 

Excellent post. Do not lose hope!

 

May I also add that I think homeschoolers can give themselves an advantage in the college app process and in scholarship competitions. Our high schoolers often have the opportunity to cultivate passions--they don't look like those cookie cutter applicants. I am not diminishing the need for high test scores or solid academics. But I am suggesting that interesting projects and volunteer work can help our kids shine.

 

:iagree: I agree here too. Colleges I've talked with love homeschoolers IF they prove their academics (test scores or other) AND if they bring in diversity of some sort - extra curriculars count - as does geography. Many schools offer more aid to those further away from home in order to attract geographical diversity.

 

We started late (last year)-dd is now 11. I picked two that Clark Howard highly recommended. Started each with $1000 and added $200 monthly. Within 12 months each was valued less than half of what we have sunk into them. :glare: I cut back and now contribute $25 each. I would have been better off to stuff the mattress. I may just stop both altogether.

 

This was very similar to our situation. We'd been saving, and lost a ton when the time came for us to need it. I have a really hard time recommending saving and counting on it. In hindsight, there are many other things I wished we'd done with that $$ (stuffing it into a mattress is one of those things). I'm glad there are "other" routes to getting my boys a 4 year education - albeit, not at full pay schools. We plan to pay the colleges back when the economy improves by nice donations into their scholarship funds.

 

 

It was a shock last year, when we had started visiting colleges, to realize that some schools -- even private -- do NOT offer merit aid. I learned to scour the financial aid section of college web sites first, before looking at the admissions page or at their majors.

 

On the parent's board at College Confidential there is a stickied thread worth reading, Schools Known for Good Merit Aid. It is a long thread, with the earlier pages now 7 years old, but the later pages are current.

 

Also, this may have been mentioned or linked earlier in this thread, but I used College Navigator to research the stats of the incoming classes to different schools, to figure out whether my son's ACT scores were in the middle or upper percentile. Sure enough, he got the most aid from the school where he was in the top 25%.

 

I'll second your recommendations. On the other thread I gave these links I liked for finding schools with good aid. The first is need based. The latter, general aid (either or). My kids schools both are on the latter list. There are a WIDE variety of choices to consider - and don't get your heart set on just one. One might not work out, but applying to a few has better odds - esp if your stats are in the top 25%.

 

http://www.insidecollege.com/reno/Colleges-that-Meet-the-Financial-Needs-of-Students/349/list.do

 

http://www.insidecollege.com/reno/The-Experts-Choice-Colleges-that-Go-the-Extra-Mile-to-Make-It-Financially-Possible-to-Attend/352/list.do

[LibraryLover]

The top scorers for the MCAS test in Massachusetts get free tuition at any state school. My nephew got one of these scholarships but chose to pay out-of-state tuition instead.

 

Homeschoolers are not eligible for the scholarship or for taking the MCAS, however.

 

http://www.doe.mass.edu/mcas/adams.html

 

 

I mentioned this is in the thread somewhere. Both of my schooled dc recieved this. It's called the Abigail Adams Scholarship. As nice as it sounds, it's a joke. The fees are as high as tution. If would have been better to keep tuiton low, and/or eliminate fees, rather than wave this in front of worthy students. It's a competitive test, too. Of the 700 students in my youngest son's graduating class, not even 30 won this award. We live in a very decent school system with concerned and involved parents. It's not the best school in the state-- that is reserved for the wealthiest areas- Weston, Newton etc. Our HS offers about 50 AP classes, and stellar music and art prgrams. We consistently send the highest performing students to top tier and Ivies. (The year my oldest graduated, students were accepted to Yale, MIT, Brown, Vassar, West Point + --these kids were not legacies.)

 

More and more kids are going to the local uni, and not because it's cheap. Just less in$ane There are so many middle class kids who are getting a pittance of merit aid , or little or no financial aid. Of course, a higher caliber of students, who would have gone to other schools in the past, makes the local uni stronger. Ours is a stable area, with pockets of great wealth, but most people are hard-working and solidly lower to middle-middle class. I'm afraid a community like ours will cease to exisit someday due to the outrageous cost of a public college education. How will they buy homes, raise families, when so many will be saddled with educational debt that was unimaginable prior to the mid to late 80's?

Edited April 20, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Tammyla]

This thread is terrifying me...

 

I've got a 17 y/old and a 14 y/old. I'm afraid I've missed the boat with my oldest and wonder how on earth we'll be able to afford a decent school.

[Julie in MN]

Being counted as an independent student for FAFSA purposes can be difficult. Here's a link that explains what is required. http://www.fafsaonline.com/fafsa-form/dependent-status-for-fafsa-5.php

This used to take several years though (like age 24?) - at least back when I started college. I had been married and was going through a divorce and filing the FAFSA (I was 21 or 22 at the time). I had to file still married, because if I didn't, I was still considered a dependent under my parents.

 

That's good information. I can't remember the specifics for my son, but he was an older student, started K at age 6, spent a gap year in boot camp, so his wait might not have been as long as some on the younger end who want to establish independence.

 

Also, he was at an out-of-state school and establishing his independence also mattered for residency tuition. Out-of-state can be HUGEly more expensive, and my son planned to live and work in the state where his school was located (which he has done), so he felt that establishing residency was reasonable.

 

Julie

[Julie in MN]

Apparently you know people with low EFCs. I know people with the opposite. Perhaps our comments reflect our experience? (Something which we could clearly realize and acknowledge if we were having this conversation over a cup of coffee?)

 

Yes, income does matter. I guess I made too big a leap from "nothing in savings" to "low income."

 

Scary if "middle income" folks are expected to come up with $25K per year. I guess my kids would have to go to community colleges or something in that case, or get jobs and go to college as adults. There's no way I can foresee in my lifetime that I could pay off a $300K loan for 3 children's college! Fortunately, our loan was only for $7,000 for our oldest son the first year, and then he paid his own way after that. He went to Colorado School of Mines and graduated several years ago. Now that he's working, he's actually helped me pay down our loan, and we used some savings bonds from when I worked at the VA.

 

Julie

Edited April 19, 2012 by Julie in MN

[LisaKinVA]

So...what does one do, when CC is not an option? I really need to look at this, because my kids (at least the oldest 3), will all most likely complete all the math, science, engineering, and Comms/elective classes (not going to worry about English/history there, because I'll do it) available at the CC before they graduate high school. We have DE here, but I don't think the state pays for homeschoolers to go -- so we have to plan on footing that bill.

 

This thread has me downing jelly beans, and telling my husband we need to move to Missouri...just so the kids can be more competitive. UGH.

[LibraryLover]

So...what does one do, when CC is not an option? I really need to look at this, because my kids (at least the oldest 3), will all most likely complete all the math, science, engineering, and Comms/elective classes (not going to worry about English/history there, because I'll do it) available at the CC before they graduate high school. We have DE here, but I don't think the state pays for homeschoolers to go -- so we have to plan on footing that bill.

 

This thread has me downing jelly beans, and telling my husband we need to move to Missouri...just so the kids can be more competitive. UGH.

 

 

I hear you. You can't sent a kid with 4's and 5's on multiple AP exams to a lackluster CC. And what to do with a child who is 4F because of a birth defect? Or a child who doesn't want to be military, even as they understand a country needs a military.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Barbara H]

So...what does one do, when CC is not an option? I really need to look at this, because my kids (at least the oldest 3), will all most likely complete all the math, science, engineering, and Comms/elective classes (not going to worry about English/history there, because I'll do it) available at the CC before they graduate high school. .

 

It seems like that at that points they'd have the option to:

finish out the Associate's at the cc. It sounds like they'd have made a lot of progress toward that degree. After they complete that degree they could transfer to a state university. It may be worth checking now to see if your state universities offer any special scholarships for cc transfers - many do.

 

Or, they could apply to other schools and see what happens. Their strong CC records will be helpful. If they want to go to a state university they will have credits that will transfer in.

[LibraryLover]

Don't laugh. We had friends who moved to a small town in Florida because their son wanted Harvard, and Harvard wants geographic diversity. He is a brilliant kid; a few years ago he would have been a Harvard shoe-in. Now is is just one of many. So they moved. He got in, and maybe FL was a factor. It's much harder to be a Merit Finalist too, in MA. You have to score higher than a kid from some other states.

 

Another friend had their excellent student do a 5th high school year at Exeter Academy in hopes this would make an ivy or other top school possible. Didn't work. Brilliant kid, but no geogrpahic diversity. I think she ended up at BU. Not a bad school, but they paid big money for Exeter.

 

I am not agreeing that an Ivy should be a goal, but some kids and parents are working their butts off trying to be creative.

 

So...what does one do, when CC is not an option? I really need to look at this, because my kids (at least the oldest 3), will all most likely complete all the math, science, engineering, and Comms/elective classes (not going to worry about English/history there, because I'll do it) available at the CC before they graduate high school. We have DE here, but I don't think the state pays for homeschoolers to go -- so we have to plan on footing that bill.

 

This thread has me downing jelly beans, and telling my husband we need to move to Missouri...just so the kids can be more competitive. UGH.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[LisaKinVA]

I hear you. You can't sent a kid with 4's and 5's on multiple AP exams to a lackluster CC. And what to do with a child who is 4F because of a birth defect? Or a child who doesn't want to be military, even as they understand a country needs a miliatry.

 

Or the local universities may be fine (assuming your kid can get in, which is difficult for local kids to do anyhow), but they don't offer a program in your kid's field of study?

 

I guess I need to find out if family members on the west coast will take in one of my children for room & board so they can attend a school out there... they will at least get points for diversity (being from VA).

[Momof3littles]

I posted up thread that my private university was 25K/yr or so when I attended from 1996-2000. I was in a 5 year master's program (bach and master's combined) so I was there until 01. In any case, tuition and room and board is actually now 45K per year (I thought it was just under 40K per year), and that's before a lot of the additional fees-100 fee for biology labs, 50 dollars for physics lab, various 100-200 dollar fees, etc.

 

It really is shocking. That's nearly double what it was when I attended, and it hasn't been that long.

 

My brother graduated in the late 80s from a small private that was about 14K year back then. I just checked because I live close to that school now, and it is 36K for commuter students, 44K or so with room and board.

 

I mentioned upthread already that my DH's state university was 8K when he attended; it is now up to 19K/yr for just tuition (he commuted).

[butterflymommy]

We started late (last year)-dd is now 11. I picked two that Clark Howard highly recommended. Started each with $1000 and added $200 monthly. Within 12 months each was valued less than half of what we have sunk into them. :glare: I cut back and now contribute $25 each. I would have been better off to stuff the mattress. I may just stop both altogether.

 

This is why we've never done any kind of college saving fund. Instead we focus on paying off our mortgage and living debt free. We paid off our first mortgage and kept the house as a rental property with the idea of using the income for tuition. Now we're doing everything we can to pay off our current mortgage aggressively.

[Sneezyone]

When 529s were first created, prepaid tuition plans ( which are 529s) were totally panned by the so-called experts who wanted parents to throw their money into the stock market and generate fees for fund managers. Washington state's plan was routinely rated C or lower. What those experts failed to appreciate was a) the housing bubble would affect the stock market and b) states were defunding colleges so the tuition prices would skyrocket...even stock funds with historic returns couldn't keep pace. Ppl who were savvy enough to see through the experts self-serving advice and started saving early with modest payments to prepaid plans...$50 or less per month...won big. Most prepaid plans need to be started 6 years or more in advance to pay off tho. WA isn't the only state that has one either but it's one of the few backed by a state guarantee.

 

DH and I are also planning to retire in a state with lesser rated schools. We expect dd and ds will benefit somewhat from the lower nmsqt scores required there. I know that we moved to Arkansas when i was a hs junior and I qualified for national merit when I wouldn't have qualified in the state I came from. The move also made me geographically valuable to the west coast schools I wanted to attend.

[Laura Corin]

I mentioned Oxford and Cambridge. They are hard to get into but, considering the cost of excellent US universities, they are worth Americans considering. A degree at an English university is only three years long. At Oxford, you pay:

 

Between £13,000 and £20,000 p.a. in university fees

Around £5,000 p.a. in college fees

Around £9,000 in living expenses

 

Plus air fares.

 

So it comes in a between £27,000 and £34,000 p.a. for each of three years, so a total of £81,000 and £102,000 total plus air fares for a degree from one of the most prestigious universities in the world. It's not cheap, but it's very competitive. That's between USD 130,000 and 163,000.

 

FWIW, our US 529 funds can be used for British universities.

 

Just an idea....

 

Laura

[Barb_]

For anyone who has a student who has high stats like this might I suggest using the University of Alabama's Honors College as a safety school? They offer free rides (you pay NOTHING, not even room and board) if your student makes NMF.

 

I would like to expand on this a moment. Honors colleges within larger universities help bridge the gap between cost and quality. My older daughter is just completing a NM full ride at ASU Barrett (although admittedly, there was a room and board shortfall that grew to about $4k this last year) and my next one down just scored a NM full ride to University of Arizona. ASU in particular, doesn't have a stellar reputation overall, but the Honors college gave her some of the advantages of a highly selective LAC while retaining the advantages of a large research institution. At both schools, the Honors college kids have the opportunity to live in Honors dorms. They are assigned advisors who work only with the Honors college and can enroll in Honors-only classes (thereby avoiding the giant weeder classes even in Bio and Chem). They get priority registration before upperclassmen. Meghan was able to take graduate level and even law school courses as an undergrad. She was first in line for research and internship opportunities. It was a chance to be a big fish in a big pond.

 

Many schools have honors colleges. There is usually a substantial difference between an honors college and an honors program, so do your homework. Here are a few I could find in a Google seacrch:

 

What Does an Honors College Look Like?

 

http://www.honors.arizona.edu/

 

http://honors.ua.edu/

 

http://barretthonors.asu.edu/

 

http://www.honorscollege.pitt.edu/

 

http://www.shc.psu.edu/

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~iubhonor/

 

http://honorscollege.msu.edu/

 

http://honors.uoregon.edu/content/admissions

 

http://www.honors.umd.edu/

 

http://honors.buffalo.edu/

 

http://schc.sc.edu/

 

http://www.bu.edu/khc/

 

http://honors.fiu.edu/

 

http://www.uakron.edu/honors/

 

Another discussion of honors colleges/programs

Edited April 19, 2012 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Barb_]

Honors Programs with High “Value Added”

Posted on February 29, 2012 by Honorsadmin

 

 

As we approach the publication date of A Review of 50 Public University Honors Programs, we plan to share some results of our research over the past six months. Today’s post lists the universities whose honors values–curriculum, prestigious scholarships, grad/retention rates, and honors benefits–elevate them dramatically in relation to their rankings by U.S. News.

 

In the guidebook, we refer to the positive difference between the perception of a university, on the one hand, with honors excellence factors, on the other hand, as HONORS IMPACT. For example, a university may have a U.S. News ranking of 100, but score in the top 10 in our review when honors values are the primary focus. One way to look at this positive difference is to regard it as a value added, over and above the perception or quality of the university as a whole. Of course it is far more difficult for a university with a high U.S. News ranking to achieve a dramatic value-added result, but some of the best honors programs are not in high-ranking universities, and we think it’s useful to show how much value they do add.

 

Below is a list of universities, their U.S. News rank, and their honors impact rank among the 50 we are reviewing:

 

Arizona State—–132—1

South Carolina—-111—2

Arkansas———-132—3

Arizona———–124—3

Kansas————101—5

Mississippi——-143—5

Georgia————62—7

Michigan State—–71—7

Stony Brook——-111—9

Delaware———–75—10

Minnesota———-68—11

Missouri———–90—11

Nebraska———-101—13

Oregon————101—13

Indiana————75—15

 

New! Top Programs!

Share

 

Our evaluations of fifty leading public university honors programs are now complete. So…below please see partial results of our work. Detailed narrative profiles and statistics comparing all fifty honors programs will be available within the next week, and downloadable in e-format. A Review of Fifty Public University Honors Programs will be approximately 225 pages in length, although readers can easily go to individual university profiles by selecting hypertext in the Table of Contents.

 

To receive notification when the Review is available for purchase ($7.99), please contact Wendy at info@publicuniversityhonors.com

 

We believe that both listings below need to be considered in order to have a reasonably complete view of honors programs. OVERALL EXCELLENCE incorporates more university-wide data than the HONORS FACTORS list includes. Some of the most highly-regarded public universities will do especially well in OVERALL EXCELLENCE because of greater selectivity regarding the student body as a whole, while other public universities will excel in more specific honors features, such as those listed below. Please review our Methodology page to have a better understanding of the lists below.

 

Below are partial results in the category of OVERALL EXCELLENCE and the equally important category of HONORS FACTORS.

 

The first list below shows the programs that scored the highest when the following criteria were used to evaluate OVERALL EXCELLENCE: honors curriculum; prestigious undergraduate and postgraduate scholarships of the university as a whole; honors retention and graduation rates; honors housing; study-abroad programs; and priority registration. Large programs with more than 1,700 honors students also receive bonus points for strong performance in curriculum, scholarships, and retention and graduation rates. Retention and graduation rates were estimated when we received no data from universities.

 

The leading public university honors programs in OVERALL EXCELLENCE are the following:

 

1. University of Michigan

2. University of Virginia

3. University of Texas at Austin

4. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

5. Arizona State University

 

This next list shows programs according to their HONORS FACTORS only, meaning that the university-wide data for prestigious scholarships is not included. One reason for this second list is that some universities face a much greater hurdle in doing well in prestigious scholarships because they operate in the orbit of major private elite schools such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford. Another reason is that some programs, especially the newer ones, are a part of universities that have not emphasized scholarship competition until recently.

 

The leading honors programs in HONORS FACTORS only are these:

 

1. University of South Carolina

2. University of Michigan

3. University of Texas at Austin

4. Arizona State University

5. University of Georgia

 

Revised, April 4, 2012.

 

Please see our March posts for additional lists of schools, by SAT admission requirements.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Heather in Neverland]

So what about someone like me?

 

We work at a missionary school in Malaysia and by the time my ds goes to college he will have lived here for 7 years.

 

My dh and I together make less than $50k in USD (none of which is taxable so it shows up as 0 for our AGI on our taxes each year and makes our EFC 0 also).

 

We have virtually nothing in savings due to two adoptions and my dh's motorcycle accident (hospital bills!) and the cost of living here.

 

He is honestly an A and B student. Not stellar but not terrible. I anticipate that he will score well on the ACT but not stupendous. But he also does not want to go to an Ivy league anyway. He wants to go someplace small, hopefully a Christian college.

 

I am staring at high school for him in the fall and I have a giant headache. Do we try to dual-enroll? Do I force him through AP classes? I don't know that he will get a lot of merit aid but what can we expect for need-based?

 

I feel nauseous.

 

.

[DianeW88]

So what about someone like me?

 

We work at a missionary school in Malaysia and by the time my ds goes to college he will have lived here for 7 years.

 

My dh and I together make less than $50k in USD (none of which is taxable so it shows up as 0 for our AGI on our taxes each year and makes our EFC 0 also).

 

We have virtually nothing in savings due to two adoptions and my dh's motorcycle accident (hospital bills!) and the cost of living here.

 

He is honestly an A and B student. Not stellar but not terrible. I anticipate that he will score well on the ACT but not stupendous. But he also does not want to go to an Ivy league anyway. He wants to go someplace small, hopefully a Christian college.

 

I am staring at high school for him in the fall and I have a giant headache. Do we try to dual-enroll? Do I force him through AP classes? I don't know that he will get a lot of merit aid but what can we expect for need-based?

 

I feel nauseous.

 

.

 

Well, I can't tell you what classes he should take, but I can tell you that the maximum award for a PELL grant is $5,500 per year, and the max amount of student loans a freshman can receive is also $5,500 per year. So, with an EFC of zero, I would expect that you would qualify for both. So, $11,000 in annual aid is the most you can expect from those two sources for a freshman student.

[Deb in NZ]

All their applicants have top marks, so they interview to find those who would benefit from the Oxbridge style and also (they admit) those whom the lecturers would enjoy teaching.

 

Laura

 

Interviews are a main part of the acceptance process here as well. When my dc applied to polytech the interview was more important than their transcript.

[melmichigan]

This makes the idea of the new County Middle College that is currently courting homeschoolers look better and better. Homeschoolers can start their children earlier than PS students so they graduate from high school with an Associates Degree paid for by the county. It might be better in the long run to only have to pay for those two years toward a Bachelor's Degree.

[LibraryLover]

This makes the idea of the new County Middle College that is currently courting homeschoolers look better and better. Homeschoolers can start their children earlier than PS students so they graduate from high school with an Associates Degree paid for by the county. It might be better in the long run to only have to pay for those two years toward a Bachelor's Degree.

 

 

If you can find a school willing to do that. Many won't accept that many credits.

[bethben]

My college plan for my youngest is the fact that she's asian - some college who wants to up their "multicultural" thing may consider that a deal worth funding even though she's grown up in a white family. Or maybe not...

 

I hope by the time my 11 year old hits college, the bubble will have burst. There's no way colleges can even stay open if the majority of people can't afford it.

 

It concerns me because I have a bright child who wants to be an engineer. We have a severely disabled child and any money we ever have will be going to his care. We don't want him at the mercy of the state and their whims. That leaves our other children with no financial aid whatsoever from us. We're not rich - very middle income. We live simply, try to pay off our mortgage because that's our safety net for ds #1. There are not a lot of places a wheelchair bound child can live.

 

My ultimate plan? Trust God. He has a plan for my children and will have to figure out a way to fund said plan.

 

Beth

[DianeW88]

If you can find a school willing to do that. Many won't accept that many credits.

 

:iagree: Lots of kids are trying to do that around here and are thinking they're graduating with an Associate's degree, when in fact, colleges are refusing to accept those credits...the kids ended up wasting their time.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[Melinda in VT]

My college plan for my youngest is the fact that she's asian - some college who wants to up their "multicultural" thing may consider that a deal worth funding even though she's grown up in a white family. Or maybe not...

 

I wouldn't count on that. From what I've been reading, colleges have no dearth of strong Asian applicants.

 

:grouphug:

 

My oldest is a sophomore, and discussions about college costs are a weekly thing around here. His aspirations cost more than we are comfortable spending.

[Sneezyone]

My college plan for my youngest is the fact that she's asian - some college who wants to up their "multicultural" thing may consider that a deal worth funding even though she's grown up in a white family. Or maybe not...

 

I hope by the time my 11 year old hits college, the bubble will have burst. There's no way colleges can even stay open if the majority of people can't afford it.

 

I wouldn't count on that. From what I've been reading, colleges have no dearth of strong Asian applicants.

 

Not only that, there is no shortage of applicants willing to pay for the higher education institutions our tax dollars built. If you've looked around at college campuses these days, you can't help but notice that the number of international students (who pay full freight) is skyrocketing. Our higher education system is second to none in terms of overall quality and availability. Back in '98 when I graduated, we always knew when it was international student day because of the crapload of luxury vehicles that lined the campus drives! Oh no, our higher ed. seats will get filled, just maybe not by native-born students.

[LisaKinVA]

This makes the idea of the new County Middle College that is currently courting homeschoolers look better and better. Homeschoolers can start their children earlier than PS students so they graduate from high school with an Associates Degree paid for by the county. It might be better in the long run to only have to pay for those two years toward a Bachelor's Degree.

 

Only if the credits are accepted... which can limit choices, too. My oldest is interested in engineering. My oldest daughter is interested in Marine Biology. The local CC has almost nothing for her. She'll still do dual enrollment, but whatever more advanced bio or chem she does, she will probably have to repeat at a 4 year college. Same with oldest son and any engineering courses (possibly advanced math, too). If he takes Calc 2, that might guarantee he doesn't have to take Calc 1, but they will probably make him take Calc 2 at the 4yr.; and any engineering courses for his major. His credits for things like Speech Communication, Interpersonal Communication will transfer as electives. This is because these are "hard sciences" -- and even state schools want to make sure they get "their" version of it, if it's in their area of major study. Humanities courses, for non-humanities majors -- and electives -- usually aren't an issue.

[Heather in Neverland]

Well, I can't tell you what classes he should take, but I can tell you that the maximum award for a PELL grant is $5,500 per year, and the max amount of student loans a freshman can receive is also $5,500 per year. So, with an EFC of zero, I would expect that you would qualify for both. So, $11,000 in annual aid is the most you can expect from those two sources for a freshman student.

 

Thank you for that info! I feel so out of my league on this...

 

So if he qualifies for those two, could we possibly make up the rest in need-based scholarships (obviously depending on the school)? Do colleges ever "meet the need" and make up the difference?

[DianeW88]

Thank you for that info! I feel so out of my league on this...

 

So if he qualifies for those two, could we possibly make up the rest in need-based scholarships (obviously depending on the school)? Do colleges ever "meet the need" and make up the difference?

 

Colleges will "meet the need" with merit scholarships. I don't know that many just pay because you can't afford to go otherwise. In certain cases, that is true. My son has a friend who has a full-ride to a state university because his father is in prison. There are provisions for extenuating circumstances such as that, but not generally for two middle class parents who are simply "coming up short" with the tuition. There is help available, but there are hoops to jump through to qualify, and often times...it still doesn't cut it.

 

Here's an example and a link to my father's undergrad university (Bucknell in PA), because their tuition is SO ridiculous, no middle class family can afford it on their own. They have all sorts of links to financial aid info and calculators, etc. to help you see what's available. It cost approximately $56,000 a year for an undergrad student to attend Bucknell. They state that their students can get an average of about $27,000 in aid from all sources (government, merit scholarships, need based private money, plus work-study). Still leaves quite a gap, doesn't it? :001_huh: Anyway, here's the link to their site, which has links to other sites that can give more financial aid info than I know off the top of my head. http://www.bucknell.edu/x44239.xml

 

All I can say is thank goodness my kids' universities don't cost that much!!

[LMD]

can I just say... $50+ thousand a year?!?! Oh my goodness! I am so thankful to be living in this country right now...

[Sneezyone]

can I just say... $50+ thousand a year?!?! Oh my goodness! I am so thankful to be living in this country right now...

 

My alma mater was over 56K when I checked last year. Most selective private schools are in this range.

[Aggie]

I have been on this board for 10 years. I now have one daughter graduating high school and one daughter entering her junior year.

 

A theme that I have seen a few times is whether or not parents will be paying for their children's college. I have read posts that say "No way' date=' no how. I will help my children get every academic advantage out there, therefore ensuring scholarships and grants, but their college expense is theirs. No one will loan me money for my retirement, so I will be paying for that and you will be paying for college."

 

That sounded like a great plan to me. We already homeschooled with an agressive eye towards high acheivement. When the girls went back into public school in grades 8 and 10 they both were advanced a year because they were so strong academically.

 

When my oldest daughter applied to colleges she presented what I thought to be a very well rounded resume:

* 7 AP classes (scores of 4's and 5's earning her AP Scholar with Honors)

* National Honor Society

* Top 15% of her class

* All A's and B's in her classes

* Captain and Lead Attorney of the Mock Trial team (the team took 2nd place in the state championship this year)

* Secretary of the History & Politics Debate Team

* President of the Community Outreach Club

* Lead pianist in the Jazz Band

* Varsity Volleyball

* Chosen to attend Girls State

* attended Outward Bound

 

Her SAT scores were 1980, which is not stellar but certainly strong enough. Her GPA was 4.07. Her resume was a mix of academics, sports, music and volunteer. She also was awarded the Congressional Award (Bronze medal) showing over 250 hours of volunteer work amongst other acheivements. She was the first student in our town to ever be awarded this.

 

So, I thought we were putting forth a very well-rounded, strong student. We made our list of 3 reach schools, 4 middle schools, and 2 safety schools. She was waitlisted at her reach schools and accepted everywhere else.

 

She also received some good scholarships. 1 school gave her $44,000 over 4 years. Another gave her $60,000 over 4 years. Sounds great, right?

 

We received nothing in financial aid. We are considered middle class.

 

So here is the problem. The schools that gave her scholarships cost close to $50,000 per year. So that leaves about a $30,000 - 38,000 a year gap in tuition. There is no way I am having her be $100K+ in debt for an undergrad degree. And, there is no way for her to even apply for such money. They only allow students to take out $5,500 in loans freshman year, a little bit more in the subsequent years.

 

It wasn't like we only applied to expensive schools. Most out of state schools are 30K and above. State schools are more reasonable, but once you add in room and board and books and misc., it adds up. And students can NOT get loans on their own.

 

So we turned to the safety schools (which are our state schools). She is disappointed that she is not going to go to the school that she loved (one of the middle schools that gave her no financial aid), but the aid just wasn't there.

 

The state school costs close to $23,000 with room and board. So again, she borrows $5,500 her first year, leaving a $17,500 gap. She did receive an award for having high MCAS scores, so that takes about $1,700 off of that, and she is receiving a few scholarships (she got the Best Buy scholarship and a few local ones) so that will take off another $3,000 or so, but that still leaves about a $13,000 gap. Per year.

 

And that is what my husband and I will be paying. For all my blustering of "I will not be paying for your college, you must do well enough to get scholarships" the reality is ... that doesn't always work. Because after all of her acheivements and academic success, she didn't get the money. And she has no ability to get loans for that kind of money.

 

I have a second child entering college is two years, so double that. In total it will cost us close to $100,000 to send two kids to our state university.

 

[b']There really is no way around it. I could tell her to go to community college for two years and then transfer, but that circumvents that whole college experience that we also think is important. Commuting 45 minutes each way to a community college and then coming home at night to do their homework .... not really what we had in mind for their "college experience".

[/b]

This whole process has been an eye-opener. For us, there were no full rides. I am not sure just what acheivements the student has to have to get that kind of money, but it is tougher than you think. So many scholarships were not even available to us because we are considered middle class and could not show "significant financial need."

 

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college, and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.

 

Although I haven't read through the entire thread, I'm definitely in the minority on this topic.

 

What I read is that you and your dh are willing to go into *deep* debt so your dc can have an experience? This is not meant to be snarky, but what is so important about the college experience? Are people who don't live on campus at a disadvantage later in life?

 

Does your dd have specific and definite career goals? Is she planning on graduate school?

 

Just say your dd gets married at 23, starts having kids at 26 and decides to stay home, while you are still paying for her college experience, will you still believe it was worth it?

 

In 8 years, when you have $100K+ (remember, everything costs more and takes longer!) in debt, you will be paralyzed. No travel, small gifts for your dc and their children, and unless you have several more years to work, no inheritance for your dc when they might really appreciate it. What if you and/or your dh can't work for some reason? What is your plan to sustain your life with this debt hanging over your head?

 

We are teaching our dc that college is necessary. However, we can't and won't go into debt for an experience. Two years at a local university or CC, then they may transfer to another university if they have specific academic reasons. Of course, dh and I will work extra hard and long hours to make sure that happens, but $60k debt for each child to live away from home for an experience? No. Way.

 

Off to the lonely corner....

[BakersDozen]

Although I haven't read through the entire thread, I'm definitely in the minority on this topic.

 

What I read is that you and your dh are willing to go into *deep* debt so your dc can have an experience? This is not meant to be snarky, but what is so important about the college experience? Are people who don't live on campus at a disadvantage later in life?

 

Does your dd have specific and definite career goals? Is she planning on graduate school?

 

Just say your dd gets married at 23, starts having kids at 26 and decides to stay home, while you are still paying for her college experience, will you still believe it was worth it?

 

In 8 years, when you have $100K+ (remember, everything costs more and takes longer!) in debt, you will be paralyzed. No travel, small gifts for your dc and their children, and unless you have several more years to work, no inheritance for your dc when they might really appreciate it. What if you and/or your dh can't work for some reason? What is your plan to sustain your life with this debt hanging over your head?

 

We are teaching our dc that college is necessary. However, we can't and won't go into debt for an experience. Two years at a local university or CC, then they may transfer to another university if they have specific academic reasons. Of course, dh and I will work extra hard and long hours to make sure that happens, but $60k debt for each child to live away from home for an experience? No. Way.

 

Off to the lonely corner....

I'll join you in the "lonely corner"! ;) I got married at 22, had dc (see siggie) and never used my college degree. Thankfully I have only myself to fret about when it comes to the money I had to borrow to pay for my education.

[creekland]

So what about someone like me?

 

We work at a missionary school in Malaysia and by the time my ds goes to college he will have lived here for 7 years.

 

My dh and I together make less than $50k in USD (none of which is taxable so it shows up as 0 for our AGI on our taxes each year and makes our EFC 0 also).

 

We have virtually nothing in savings due to two adoptions and my dh's motorcycle accident (hospital bills!) and the cost of living here.

 

He is honestly an A and B student. Not stellar but not terrible. I anticipate that he will score well on the ACT but not stupendous. But he also does not want to go to an Ivy league anyway. He wants to go someplace small, hopefully a Christian college.

 

I am staring at high school for him in the fall and I have a giant headache. Do we try to dual-enroll? Do I force him through AP classes? I don't know that he will get a lot of merit aid but what can we expect for need-based?

 

I feel nauseous.

 

.

 

Do the best you can for test prep for the SAT/ACT, then look for small Christian colleges that tend to meet need or go out of their way to make it financially affordable (Wheaton, Covenant, others on the link I provided). By scoring well (need not be National Merit finalist) and choosing colleges carefully, I think you'll do well with need-based aid. Christian colleges (many of them) LIKE kids from overseas. ;)

 

My college plan for my youngest is the fact that she's asian - some college who wants to up their "multicultural" thing may consider that a deal worth funding even though she's grown up in a white family. Or maybe not...

 

Beth

 

As others have said, this is a nick against her applications, not for them. Sorry! :grouphug:

[Catherine]

We've done similarly, and will be mortgage-free when the second child starts sophomore year of college, not quite halfway through the college years for us. We are hopeful our savings carry us through till then.

[Melissa in Australia]

can I just say... $50+ thousand a year?!?! Oh my goodness! I am so thankful to be living in this country right now...

 

My Ds18 is currently doing Aerospace Engineering in Melbourne. It is a 4 year degree, including honours.

cost

$9000 per year tuition only, books just under $2000 per year, accommodation $12000 per year this does not include food. this adds up to $23000 per year. Not as expensive as some of the figures posted from America, but not that cheep either.

 

International students pay around $ 38000 tuition for the same degree at the same uni.

 

How does my son afford it? the tuition is put straight onto a federal government student loan. He received $ 8000 in first year for scholarships (3) and a following $2500 per year if he gets good grades, and because we (parents) are on a very low income, he receives a small study allowance from the government that helps pay his accommodation.

[tomandlorih]

I'll join you in the "lonely corner"! ;) I got married at 22, had dc (see siggie) and never used my college degree. Thankfully I have only myself to fret about when it comes to the money I had to borrow to pay for my education.

 

 

Joining you ladies in the corner!! Has anyone mentioned online degrees you can live at home and earn??

 

CLEP testing?? My friend earned her AA through the local community college by testing + 2 required classes there.. It took her 6 months and $2000.. then transferred to a 4 yr school.

 

What about good, old-fashioned work and take a lower load so it can be paid for? My BIL took 8 years to finish his degree (Biology, works for Dept of F&W) and graduated debt free from WSU. My husband did it in 4 debt free. (They were both able to live at home for it as will my children.)

 

Don't flip out.. It is possible.. Explore, research, and ask others how they did it.

[Haiku]

However, we can't and won't go into debt for an experience.

 

Your corner is getting crowded, because I agree with you, too. As I posted earlier in this thread, I have post-kid plans, and they don't include being saddled with crippling loans. It's not MY degree. Why should I have to ruin my financial future so my kids can get degrees? I'll help them in ways that I reasonably can, but taking out tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans is not, to me, reasonable. PLUS loan interest rates are 7.9 percent. My savings account is currently earning less than half a percent.

 

Tara

[JumpyTheFrog]

What about good, old-fashioned work and take a lower load so it can be paid for? My BIL took 8 years to finish his degree

 

I think most scholarships and financial aid are only for full-time students. Also, the parents would have to be willing to let their kids live at home for free for an extra few years for this to work. I believe most people that work many hours while going to college drop out before finishing. Now, maybe that's just FT students, but I wonder about PT students working FT.

[Tammyla]

Please make room in the corner for me too.

 

I find it very interesting that many people/families couldn't get a home loan or refinance today, much less a loan of any kind...but huge loans for student debt is pretty much a done deal.

[Barbara H]

This makes the idea of the new County Middle College that is currently courting homeschoolers look better and better. Homeschoolers can start their children earlier than PS students so they graduate from high school with an Associates Degree paid for by the county. It might be better in the long run to only have to pay for those two years toward a Bachelor's Degree.

 

Great plan. I know some expressed concerns these credits may not transfer but in many states they transfer very easily from community colleges to state universities. Many states have what are called "articulation" agreements that connect all community colleges to all state universities in the state insuring that any student who completes an Associate's degree can fully transfer credits and will have met general education requirements for the degree so they can finish at a state university in two more years. This would mean you are paying for two years of college instead of four.

 

If you have any concerns about this I would encourage you to ask advisers at the community college transfer office, or general advisers if they don't have a transfer office for advice. Also, you could go ahead and check with the colleges your child is considering for finishing their degree. There are private colleges who will accept credits, but it is generally more complicated, but often it is quite easy at state universities.

 

I see Michigan is in your screenname... Not sure if you live there or what part of the state, but if so here's an example of one articulation agreement. http://www.emich.edu/ccr/artguide.php

[Aelwydd]

If we stay here in Texas long enough, ds can begin attending local cc at age 14 for free. The state pays the tuition because it also counts as credits towards high school. He can have his first two years done for free. Then, he can transfer to another university.

 

We're not particularly hung up on the college experience, and neither is he (he's just 9 after all ;)).

 

My pie-in-the-sky wish is that he will continue to play hockey and that together with a strong math and science program, he can land a merit/ sports scholarship. Ice hockey is very big in the East and Midwest, and the most competitive Division I teams also happen to be some of the best private schools. So, if you are fortunate enough to land one, that means you are often getting into something better than your average state school.

[Barbara H]

 

He is honestly an A and B student. Not stellar but not terrible. I anticipate that he will score well on the ACT but not stupendous. But he also does not want to go to an Ivy league anyway. He wants to go someplace small, hopefully a Christian college.

 

I am staring at high school for him in the fall and I have a giant headache. Do we try to dual-enroll? Do I force him through AP classes? I don't know that he will get a lot of merit aid but what can we expect for need-based?

 

I feel nauseous.

 

.

 

First, will you remain in Malaysia while he's in college? You should know that financial aid looks at present income. So, if for some reason you came back here and moved to a higher income his aid would be calculated as though he'd always had that higher income.

 

I have a couple of book suggestions for you. I attended a seminar by the author and thought she was really knowledgeable. http://www.expatwomen.com/expat-women-books-authors/the-global-nomads-guide-to-university-transition-tina-quick.php

 

Another book is called Third Culture Kid's Guide to College. http://www.denizenmag.com/2011/09/a-third-culture-kids-guide-to-college/

 

Both of these books are available through Amazon.

[Mommy_of_4]

I am glad I live where I do! Our community college is only $1500 or so a semester WITH books. DH and I are both in school full time and have never paid over $1500. I don't see the need to go to a 4yr college right off the bat. Our kids can start at a 2 yr college while living at home and then transfer to a 4yr college for their BS. All of the community colleges I have looked at have a transfer contract in place with all the major 4 yr colleges in the in state.

[Blueridge]

We were attending the honor's colloquium at dd's cc. (how is that for abbreviation :)). A gentleman sat down beside me at our dinner table, and after chatting for a while I realized that he was the president of the college. :001_huh: Dd was doing a presentation, and he was chatting back and forth with her and with us. He said he was genuinely impressed with the homeschooled students who attended. Then he started asking me questions about our 'methods' and said that he loved my philosophy. :D Then he said that he had attended a breakfast with 3 presidents from local private colleges that morning, and that most of their conversation revolved around the high costs of their tuition and fees, and that it was *killing them*. Costs are skyrocketing, endowments are down because of the economy, and merit aid was suffering, so attendance was way down. He said that they spent 75% of their time (as private college presidents) going out and fundraising for their schools. Then I added that was why we were so glad that dd was attending his cc for 2 years. He agreed that it was the wave of the future, and the financially wise thing to do, and that they would be well prepared. Sure made my day!

Edited April 20, 2012 by Blueridge

[scholarly]

For those in Michigan here is a link giving the information for community colleges and four-year colleges that participate in the MACRAO agreement.

 

http://http://www.macrao.org/Publications/MACRAOAgreement.asp

 

The MACRAO agreement lists which four-year schools will accept Associate degree transfers from participating community colleges (nearly all community colleges in MI) and with what provisos.

 

For Heather in NC: some Christian colleges, including the one I used to work for, give large scholarships for kids of missionaries.

[amy g.]

It must be one of those things like cost of living that vary wildly from one state to another.

 

From our expierience, I can not IMAGINE how a student racks up community college credits that will not transfer to a state school.

 

Every time we sign up for classes, we meet with an advisor who makes sure all of the classes meet degree plan and transfer specifications. Every state school posts which classes every specific college will accept. They even have online transfer calculators. Weekly, in the student union, there are tables set up with representatives from state schools who will answer questions and help with the transfer process.

 

This must not be the norm across the country.

[kubiac]

We believe the college experience can be great, if you can pay for it outright, but it is not anything we would consider going into debt over.

 

THIS! A great education is a precious thing, but a college "experience" is much less important than life and work experience. (Full disclosure: Dave Ramsey has really changed my thinking on this topic since I went to college myself, and took a lot of stuff for granted.)