My cautionary tale

[Home'scool]

I have been on this board for 10 years. I now have one daughter graduating high school and one daughter entering her junior year.

 

A theme that I have seen a few times is whether or not parents will be paying for their children's college. I have read posts that say "No way, no how. I will help my children get every academic advantage out there, therefore ensuring scholarships and grants, but their college expense is theirs. No one will loan me money for my retirement, so I will be paying for that and you will be paying for college."

 

That sounded like a great plan to me. We already homeschooled with an agressive eye towards high acheivement. When the girls went back into public school in grades 8 and 10 they both were advanced a year because they were so strong academically.

 

When my oldest daughter applied to colleges she presented what I thought to be a very well rounded resume:

* 7 AP classes (scores of 4's and 5's earning her AP Scholar with Honors)

* National Honor Society

* Top 15% of her class

* All A's and B's in her classes

* Captain and Lead Attorney of the Mock Trial team (the team took 2nd place in the state championship this year)

* Secretary of the History & Politics Debate Team

* President of the Community Outreach Club

* Lead pianist in the Jazz Band

* Varsity Volleyball

* Chosen to attend Girls State

* attended Outward Bound

 

Her SAT scores were 1980, which is not stellar but certainly strong enough. Her GPA was 4.07. Her resume was a mix of academics, sports, music and volunteer. She also was awarded the Congressional Award (Bronze medal) showing over 250 hours of volunteer work amongst other acheivements. She was the first student in our town to ever be awarded this.

 

So, I thought we were putting forth a very well-rounded, strong student. We made our list of 3 reach schools, 4 middle schools, and 2 safety schools. She was waitlisted at her reach schools and accepted everywhere else.

 

She also received some good scholarships. 1 school gave her $44,000 over 4 years. Another gave her $60,000 over 4 years. Sounds great, right?

 

We received nothing in financial aid. We are considered middle class.

 

So here is the problem. The schools that gave her scholarships cost close to $50,000 per year. So that leaves about a $30,000 - 38,000 a year gap in tuition. There is no way I am having her be $100K+ in debt for an undergrad degree. And, there is no way for her to even apply for such money. They only allow students to take out $5,500 in loans freshman year, a little bit more in the subsequent years.

 

It wasn't like we only applied to expensive schools. Most out of state schools are 30K and above. State schools are more reasonable, but once you add in room and board and books and misc., it adds up. And students can NOT get loans on their own.

 

So we turned to the safety schools (which are our state schools). She is disappointed that she is not going to go to the school that she loved (one of the middle schools that gave her no financial aid), but the aid just wasn't there.

 

The state school costs close to $23,000 with room and board. So again, she borrows $5,500 her first year, leaving a $17,500 gap. She did receive an award for having high MCAS scores, so that takes about $1,700 off of that, and she is receiving a few scholarships (she got the Best Buy scholarship and a few local ones) so that will take off another $3,000 or so, but that still leaves about a $13,000 gap. Per year.

 

And that is what my husband and I will be paying. For all my blustering of "I will not be paying for your college, you must do well enough to get scholarships" the reality is ... that doesn't always work. Because after all of her acheivements and academic success, she didn't get the money. And she has no ability to get loans for that kind of money.

 

I have a second child entering college is two years, so double that. In total it will cost us close to $100,000 to send two kids to our state university.

 

There really is no way around it. I could tell her to go to community college for two years and then transfer, but that circumvents that whole college experience that we also think is important. Commuting 45 minutes each way to a community college and then coming home at night to do their homework .... not really what we had in mind for their "college experience".

 

This whole process has been an eye-opener. For us, there were no full rides. I am not sure just what acheivements the student has to have to get that kind of money, but it is tougher than you think. So many scholarships were not even available to us because we are considered middle class and could not show "significant financial need."

 

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college, and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.

[blessed3x]

:grouphug:

You are not alone. I could have written most of what you shared.

We have 2 dd's in college. It is not easy, but we hope it pays off for them in the long run.

[melissel]

I have been on this board for 10 years. I now have one daughter graduating high school and one daughter entering her junior year.

 

A theme that I have seen a few times is whether or not parents will be paying for their children's college. I have read posts that say "No way' date=' no how. I will help my children get every academic advantage out there, therefore ensuring scholarships and grants, but their college expense is theirs. No one will loan me money for my retirement, so I will be paying for that and you will be paying for college."

 

That sounded like a great plan to me. We already homeschooled with an agressive eye towards high acheivement. When the girls went back into public school in grades 8 and 10 they both were advanced a year because they were so strong academically.

 

When my oldest daughter applied to colleges she presented what I thought to be a very well rounded resume:

* 7 AP classes (scores of 4's and 5's earning her AP Scholar with Honors)

* National Honor Society

* Top 15% of her class

* All A's and B's in her classes

* Captain and Lead Attorney of the Mock Trial team (the team took 2nd place in the state championship this year)

* Secretary of the History & Politics Debate Team

* President of the Community Outreach Club

* Lead pianist in the Jazz Band

* Varsity Volleyball

* Chosen to attend Girls State

* attended Outward Bound

 

Her SAT scores were 1980, which is not stellar but certainly strong enough. Her GPA was 4.07. Her resume was a mix of academics, sports, music and volunteer. She also was awarded the Congressional Award (Bronze medal) showing over 250 hours of volunteer work amongst other acheivements. She was the first student in our town to ever be awarded this.

 

So, I thought we were putting forth a very well-rounded, strong student. We made our list of 3 reach schools, 4 middle schools, and 2 safety schools. She was waitlisted at her reach schools and accepted everywhere else.

 

She also received some good scholarships. 1 school gave her $44,000 over 4 years. Another gave her $60,000 over 4 years. Sounds great, right?

 

We received nothing in financial aid. We are considered middle class.

 

So here is the problem. The schools that gave her scholarships cost close to $50,000 per year. So that leaves about a $30,000 - 38,000 a year gap in tuition. There is no way I am having her be $100K+ in debt for an undergrad degree. And, there is no way for her to even apply for such money. They only allow students to take out $5,500 in loans freshman year, a little bit more in the subsequent years.

 

It wasn't like we only applied to expensive schools. Most out of state schools are 30K and above. State schools are more reasonable, but once you add in room and board and books and misc., it adds up. And students can NOT get loans on their own.

 

So we turned to the safety schools (which are our state schools). She is disappointed that she is not going to go to the school that she loved (one of the middle schools that gave her no financial aid), but the aid just wasn't there.

 

The state school costs close to $23,000 with room and board. So again, she borrows $5,500 her first year, leaving a $17,500 gap. She did receive an award for having high MCAS scores, so that takes about $1,700 off of that, and she is receiving a few scholarships (she got the Best Buy scholarship and a few local ones) so that will take off another $3,000 or so, but that still leaves about a $13,000 gap. Per year.

 

And that is what my husband and I will be paying. For all my blustering of "I will not be paying for your college, you must do well enough to get scholarships" the reality is ... that doesn't always work. Because after all of her acheivements and academic success, she didn't get the money. And she has no ability to get loans for that kind of money.

 

I have a second child entering college is two years, so double that. In total it will cost us close to $100,000 to send two kids to our state university.

 

There really is no way around it. I could tell her to go to community college for two years and then transfer, but that circumvents that whole college experience that we also think is important. Commuting 45 minutes each way to a community college and then coming home at night to do their homework .... not really what we had in mind for their "college experience".

 

This whole process has been an eye-opener. For us, there were no full rides. I am not sure just what acheivements the student has to have to get that kind of money, but it is tougher than you think. So many scholarships were not even available to us because we are considered middle class and could not show "significant financial need."

 

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college, and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.[/quote']

 

:grouphug: This whole thing scares the heck out of me. I have no idea how we'll manage to put two kids through college. I do expect the girls to save some toward college, but there's no way WE could save enough; I don't see how they'll get even close to making a dent.

[Aelwydd]

When commodities become so expensive that the majority can no longer afford them, that's usually when the bubble bursts.

 

Everything you've said totally matches my own experience and observations. I was very careful, going to inexpensive community college, and then later a state university. I had scholarships and some financial aid. I still graduated with about $55,000 in college loans, and I considered myself fortunate, given how many of my fellow students blew past that by sophomore year.

 

We're saving for our ds' college. We don't want him to have to assume such a heavy burden right out of college.

[Home'scool]

The reality of it is much different from the concept of what could be.

 

College is EXPENSIVE. And it is the rare case that the student will not need any help from the parents.

[LibraryLover]

I will delete this later, so please don't quote. My kids dislike when I talk about them online, but I wanted to commiserate.

 

 

The situation is dire for the middle class. My children have been very thoughtful about this process. My ds wrote to the merit aid committee asking for more money at his first choice college, who accepted him into their honors program. They gave him an additional 2k. That still leaves 30k each year for 4 years. ;) He decided not to attend.

Edited April 22, 2012 by LibraryLover

[KS_]

I don't know what my dc will do when college time comes, but I seriously doubt we will have the money to help much, and what we've put into savings for them is very small. Dh and I both went back to college 4 and 5 years out of high school and had to work and take out loans, while taking a full course load. We finally paid off our students loans a few years ago. If they want to go to college, they will most likely have to pay for it themselves and figure out how to go about that. It was hard for dh and me, but made us serious about what we were doing.

[Myra]

We're exactly in the same boat as you right now! And to add to this - after years of saving,sacrificing , no vacations, frugal living,etc. - the economy has nose-dived our retirement funds. I think we'll be working until we drop!

 

Myra

[Home'scool]

Parents now take out what is called a Parent PLUS loan. Every year you can take out the cost of tuition. It is under the parent's name and is not transferrable to the student.

 

Interest starts accumulating when the money is disbursed, but you can choose to defer the interest and principal, or just the principal, until the student graduates. The interest is 7.9%

 

The scary thing is that they do not do a income to debit check for this loan. They only do a credit check. So if you have good credit and no bankruptcy history, you could borrow 100k, 200K and upwards. And then you have 10 years to pay it off starting from the day they graduate. They just keep giving you the money when you ask for it. And then you are buried.

[mommymilkies]

Luckily my dh gets free tuition for our kids for the first two years of community college (he is a professor there), but our state colleges are also really affordable nearby. Who knows what it will be once my kids are old enough to go! It's always wise to have a safe backup plan and do your research.

[Home'scool]

We're exactly in the same boat as you right now! And to add to this - after years of saving,sacrificing , no vacations, frugal living,etc. - the economy has nose-dived our retirement funds. I think we'll be working until we drop!

 

We are planning on having every paycheck I earn going towards this debt. We will be living off of my husband's paycheck. So much for all those years thinking they would be paying their own way and we would be saving for retirement.

 

But what choice is there?

[DianeW88]

Good grief! Where do you all live???

 

I have two kids in college. The tuition for both state universities (two different ones) they attend is about $2,300 per semester. My son has a half academic scholarship, my dd has a full tuition/fees scholarship for ballet.

 

My son lives at home right now and commutes, so his costs were basically $1,000 per semester plus books, which cost less than $500. Oh, and the parking pass for $50.

 

My dd lives away and has to pay $370 + utilities for her apartment. This thing is huge...1500 square feet, four bedrooms, granite countertops, satellite, free WiFi, washer and dryer...love how students live nowadays :lol:. Anyway, she shares that with three other girls. She also buys her food. She works as a professional ballerina and that covers her living expenses. Not very many books for a ballet major, but she does have the occasional leo or pointe shoes to buy. Since she dances professionally, she does have a monthly pointe shoe allowance from her company, or that would cost her around $400 per month. Free parking for her at the LDS Institute, which is essentially on campus.

 

So my kids have no problem paying for their own college degrees. I think it just depends on how crazy expensive your in-state universities are. And right now, I am sooooo glad we live in Utah.

[goldberry]

There was a girl I went to school with who was amazing academically. She did all the things your kid did, volunteering, sports, etc. She was 3rd or 4th academically in our graduating class (a large class). They weren't poor, but lower middle class.

 

A few years later I asked a friend about her, where did she end up going to college. She didn't. She didn't get enough scholarships offered, her parents didn't have the money, no financial aid due to their income.

 

This girl worked so hard, with college as her goal. And she was not ABLE to attend due to finances. It was the first time I really got the reality that could happen in our country. I think it's a travesty.

 

I don't have a very "academic" kid. I'm not planning on any significant scholarships. She will definitely be attending a community college and commuting, and yes it is about an hour away from home. I'm glad we can afford that much.

[milovany]

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago? I graduated with a bachelor of arts from a state college in the early 1990s. My parents didn't pay a dime. I had a few small scholarships my first year and then just worked my way through for years 2-4.5. I received some grants and had some loans, but when I graduated, the loans were less than $10,000 I believe (and part of me wants to say half of that). I had them paid off before I married two years after I graduated. My husband also paid for his own schooling (same college) and I don't believe he took out any loans at all, just worked his way through. What has changed so drastically much? I remember hearing "college is expensive" back then, too.

 

We have no plans to fund a post-secondary education for our kids. I have a great job right now that I was trained for in six weeks. My husband never used his degree either and makes decent money.

 

To the OP, thanks for your post. It had one particular point in it that was useful for me. I'm sorry you're facing what you're facing (although I'd recommend the community college route all the same; I had the "college experience" and don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be).

[Lisa R.]

Very interesting. If the SAT scores had been higher, would more scholarships been available?

 

It has been my experience that colleges look at ACT or SAT scores and grades when handing out academic scholarships.

 

From what I have seen, cranking up those test scores is the best way to get the scholarships.

 

Most of the full-ride academic scholarships I have seen have been from PSAT merit scholars. This is a great goal, but this only represents less than 1% of students that take the PSAT.

 

In our experience, oldest dd received close to a full-ride academic scholarship (tuition only). It was a scholarship given by the honors college of a state school. It was based on test scores and grades.

 

Good luck to your dd. It sounds like she's a well-rounded student who will be well prepared for college.

[goldberry]

We are planning on having every paycheck I earn going towards this debt. We will be living off of my husband's paycheck. So much for all those years thinking they would be paying their own way and we would be saving for retirement.

 

But what choice is there?

 

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

[Mom0012]

We are planning on our kids doing 2 years at CC and then transferring to a state university. We have been paying for 2 years at the state university for each of them through the prepaid tuition program and then hoping the CC costs don't skyrocket between now and then so that we can pay as we go or at least pay as much as we can.

 

Now, if someone gets a full ride, they are welcome to go wherever they want to, but even our plan above will be a strain for us financially. I'd love for my kids to have a full college experience (if they want it), but I'm not going to go into heavy debt right before retirement to make that happen. I didn't have the full college experience and neither did my brother and yet all turned otu well for us and I don't think either of us feel like we missed out.

 

I think one key is not building expectations when the kids are younger. I am telling my kids now that they will have to work hard if they want to go away to school and that, even then, they may not be able to. I am also not going to build up the whole idea of going away to college. I'm not saying the OP did, but these are just plans that I have for managing all of this.

 

I will help my kids with college, but unless we get some windfall, I cannot go into a huge amount of debt.

 

Lisa

[Home'scool]

Yes, college have increased that much in price. Do a quick search and you will find it hard to find an out of state school for less thatn 30K. You can find in-state schools that are reasonable, but at some point you DO have to balance the academic quality of the school.

 

My dd will be majoring in Biochemistry. She either wants to go onto law school or med school. She needs a strong undergrad degree.

 

When I graduated in 1987 from a state school tuition was somewhere around $700, and room and board was about $1000. For the year.

 

And the student loans were in my name so my parents didn't have to take on the burden.

[mommymilkies]

Diane- That's about what it is here for in state tuition, as well. Oregon State is also very affordable if the child is ok with taking some online. And of course, there's no shame in doing community college first.

 

My dh is a chemist and we have many bio & chem major friends. I will say that the school really depends very little on getting a good education and good job. It really depends on how hard you work. I would never pay out of state tuition for a biochem degree. Getting good grades at a "lesser college" would also help getting scholarships or transferring to a "better college".

Edited April 18, 2012 by mommymilkies

[Jane in NC]

Thank you for posting this.

 

My mantra regarding college is to start saving at birth. Parents on this board have regularly pooh-poohed me. But having taught at state universities, I have witnessed how few students at our public institutions earn scholarships. Sure, they are a "bargain" compared to private colleges, but many parents do not have the $60K+ for state schools.

 

That said, I will continue to recommend that students apply to private colleges. The OP mentioned a significant gap between the cost of these schools and merit aid. Sometimes. But private colleges can be cheaper (after merit and financial aid) than state schools for some students. One does not know unless one applies.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Jane in NC

[swellmomma]

Wow, that is some crazy costs. We have started looking at Local universities/colleges. We are lucky in that there is 1 college 15 minutes from my house, and in teh city there is a dozen or so universities, colleges, tradeschools etc. For the private Christian University my son wants to attend for his 4 year degree it will cost just under $10K per year plus books. And there is entrance scholarships of $1K that are guaranteed for every student that comes in with a highschool grade over 80% over all. The same for another private christian university has the same costs if you apply with an average over 75% you are guaranteed a 1K scholarship, if you apply with an average over 85% you get $2000, if you are coming from a distance over 50K to attend you get $1000, and if you do 60 hours of volunteer work in the 6 months leading to attending you get $1000 scholarship. And those are the ones that you do not have to apply for, they are automatic. Not every school has those kinds of entrance scholarships but we intend to make the most of them. The best part is the ones based on the high marks on entrance, will continue through all 4 years if they maintain high marks in the college, so with hard work they are guaranteed $1K a year. Which isn't a ton but when the costs of the whole year is only 10K knocking 1K off it makes a big difference.

 

Because I have family living in the city that those schools are in the kids will live with either my sister or my folks for free room and board. Even the big main university is not the prices you guys have listed. My siblings both attended and graduated there and I would say it is closer to around $15K for the whole year including books thought neither lived on campus, they kept living at home and communted. They took the bus to and from school, meaning their commute was 60-90 minutes each way depending on traffic. The savings in costs was more than worth it. If attending a cheaper university, and living at home for free yet needing to commute makes it more affordable than I would forgo them living in residence at the uni and have them commute. Their bus pass cost $188 each term, so $376 for the year vs $10-15K for living on campus.

 

Uni/college does not need to cost $30-40K a year to give them the college experience. I can see if you have no choice like if we did not have family living in the city where the colleges are having the kids live on campus, as we are 2 hours away. THere is no way to commute it everyday. But 45 minutes, yeah that would be feasible to commute imo.

 

In addition I intend for my kids to do an apprenticeship during high school so they will have the means to make good money before college and during summer breaks to pay for it should they chose to go. Or they can keep going with their appointed trade and do the 6 weeks of technical school each year and make a good living without college.

Edited April 18, 2012 by swellmomma

[Jane in NC]

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago?

 

Yes.

 

One thing that colleges have done is increase the amount charged in "fees". So tuition at state schools may look reasonable, but these fees slam the pocketbook.

[LibraryLover]

Yes.

 

One thing that colleges have done is increase the amount charged in "fees". So tuition at state schools may look reasonable, but these fees slam the pocketbook.

 

 

The situation is very different. Night and day. And Hell to the Yes about state school 'fees'. It's a sick and sad joke.

[Lolly]

Good grief! Where do you all live???

 

I have two kids in college. The tuition for both state universities (two different ones) they attend is about $2,300 per semester. My son has a half academic scholarship, my dd has a full tuition/fees scholarship for ballet.

 

My son lives at home right now and commutes, so his costs were basically $1,000 per semester plus books, which cost less than $500. Oh, and the parking pass for $50.

 

My dd lives away and has to pay $370 + utilities for her apartment. This thing is huge...1500 square feet, four bedrooms, granite countertops, satellite, free WiFi, washer and dryer...love how students live nowadays :lol:. Anyway, she shares that with three other girls. She also buys her food. She works as a professional ballerina and that covers her living expenses. Not very many books for a ballet major, but she does have the occasional leo or pointe shoes to buy. Since she dances professionally, she does have a monthly pointe shoe allowance from her company, or that would cost her around $400 per month. Free parking for her at the LDS Institute, which is essentially on campus.

 

So my kids have no problem paying for their own college degrees. I think it just depends on how crazy expensive your in-state universities are. And right now, I am sooooo glad we live in Utah.

 

That is community college semester cost here, if living at home and not including food.

 

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago? I graduated with a bachelor of arts from a state college in the early 1990s. My parents didn't pay a dime. I had a few small scholarships my first year and then just worked my way through for years 2-4.5. I received some grants and had some loans, but when I graduated, the loans were less than $10,000 I believe (and part of me wants to say half of that). I had them paid off before I married two years after I graduated. My husband also paid for his own schooling (same college) and I don't believe he took out any loans at all, just worked his way through. What has changed so drastically much? I remember hearing "college is expensive" back then, too.

 

We have no plans to fund a post-secondary education for our kids. I have a great job right now that I was trained for in six weeks. My husband never used his degree either and makes decent money.

 

To the OP, thanks for your post. It had one particular point in it that was useful for me. I'm sorry you're facing what you're facing (although I'd recommend the community college route all the same; I had the "college experience" and don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be).

 

yes, it has increased that much and is continuing to increase at an insane level.

 

Very interesting. If the SAT scores had been higher, would more scholarships been available?

 

It has been my experience that colleges look at ACT or SAT scores and grades when handing out academic scholarships.

 

From what I have seen, cranking up those test scores is the best way to get the scholarships.

 

Most of the full-ride academic scholarships I have seen have been from PSAT merit scholars. This is a great goal, but this only represents less than 1% of students that take the PSAT.

 

In our experience, oldest dd received close to a full-ride academic scholarship (tuition only). It was a scholarship given by the honors college of a state school. It was based on test scores and grades.

 

Good luck to your dd. It sounds like she's a well-rounded student who will be well prepared for college.

 

 

Only one problem with your SAT just increase your scores idea...You are talking about maybe the top 1% of kids academically. My kids, I hate to admit, are not going to be able to do that. No matter how much they study; no matter how much they test prep; no matter how many tutors I hire for them; they will not see those kinds of scores. I know people don't like to hear it, but a whole lot of academics is what you have been handed in your genetic make-up. Effort counts, but it can only take you so far.

[Mommyfaithe]

Well, we did choose the CC route....and it my girls graduated with very little debt from their schools of choice....

 

They both had jobs during college years....kept a 4.0 at the CC and received very generous transfer scholarships.

They did have a college experience...they had their own experience....and did amazingly well. Don't frown on the CC experience. It is also a college experience albeit a different one.

[swellmomma]

Good grief! Where do you all live???

 

I have two kids in college. The tuition for both state universities (two different ones) they attend is about $2,300 per semester. My son has a half academic scholarship, my dd has a full tuition/fees scholarship for ballet.

 

My son lives at home right now and commutes, so his costs were basically $1,000 per semester plus books, which cost less than $500. Oh, and the parking pass for $50.

 

My dd lives away and has to pay $370 + utilities for her apartment. This thing is huge...1500 square feet, four bedrooms, granite countertops, satellite, free WiFi, washer and dryer...love how students live nowadays :lol:. Anyway, she shares that with three other girls. She also buys her food. She works as a professional ballerina and that covers her living expenses. Not very many books for a ballet major, but she does have the occasional leo or pointe shoes to buy. Since she dances professionally, she does have a monthly pointe shoe allowance from her company, or that would cost her around $400 per month. Free parking for her at the LDS Institute, which is essentially on campus.

 

So my kids have no problem paying for their own college degrees. I think it just depends on how crazy expensive your in-state universities are. And right now, I am sooooo glad we live in Utah.

 

 

Wow those schools are really cheap. I posted about our cheap uni being $10K per year. You have to pay per course and each course is $900 or so. A full course load is 10 courses per year so $9K plus the fees putting you up to about $10 plus books. It looks like your college is half that cost. Given how expensive everyone else is posting their experiences to be that is amazing.

[kitten18]

:grouphug: Thank you for sharing. It is tough to hear, but I appreciate the wake-up call.

[KristinaBreece]

The sad truth is, most schools base their academic merit awards on SAT/ACT scores. I was clinically depressed my junior year of high school, and my GPA took a hit that landed me at barely graduating. What got me college scholarships were my ACT scores. We rail against teaching to the test, but sometimes it really matters.

[LibraryLover]

The community college near us charges $900 per class (dd has taken classes there), the local uni, with 'free' tuition with the A. Adams scholarship is 1000 per class. Not much difference there, and the state uni is much more challenging. My dd's English class at the CC was a joke.

 

It's crazy. Geography makes a big difference, I see.

Edited April 18, 2012 by LibraryLover

[DianeW88]

Diane- That's about what it is here for in state tuition, as well. Oregon State is also very affordable if the child is ok with taking some online. And of course, there's no shame in doing community college first.

 

My dh is a chemist and we have many bio & chem major friends. I will say that the school really depends very little on getting a good education and good job. It really depends on how hard you work. I would never pay out of state tuition for a biochem degree. Getting good grades at a "lesser college" would also help getting scholarships or transferring to a "better college".

 

:iagree:Multiple studies have proved that going to a "big name" university doesn't necessarily equate with a better job in the real world. Most state universities are more than adequate for an undergrad degree. And, most states have multiple universities to choose from. Here in Utah, we have Utah State, University of Utah, Weber State, BYU, Utah Valley University, Southern Utah University, Dixie State College and Snow College. And that's just off the top of my head. These colleges offer med school and law school as well. And all for that lovely in-state tuition rate.

 

Bottom line...do your reasearch and plan ahead.

 

Here are some links for a few of our in-state universities...the tuition is about the same at all of them:

 

http://www.uvu.edu/tuition/tuitionFees11-12.pdf

 

http://www.usu.edu/budget/Documents/TuitionFees/2011-12usutuition-fee%20schedule.pdf

 

http://www.weber.edu/WSUImages/bursar/12-13%20UG.pdf

 

http://finserve.byu.edu/content/tuition-and-general-fees#t2 (BYU tuition depends on whether you are LDS or not....even if you're not, it's still less than $5,000 per semester. And the school is very highly regarded.)

 

http://fbs.admin.utah.edu/download/income/FreshSophRes/FreshSophTuitionRes.pdf

 

Maybe you all should consider moving to Utah!! :)

Edited April 18, 2012 by DianeW88

[Caroline]

Thank you for posting this.

 

My mantra regarding college is to start saving at birth. Parents on this board have regularly pooh-poohed me. But having taught at state universities, I have witnessed how few students at our public institutions earn scholarships. Sure, they are a "bargain" compared to private colleges, but many parents do not have the $60K+ for state schools.

 

That said, I will continue to recommend that students apply to private colleges. The OP mentioned a significant gap between the cost of these schools and merit aid. Sometimes. But private colleges can be cheaper (after merit and financial aid) than state schools for some students. One does not know unless one applies.

 

What Jane said! I started listening to her, and we have worked very hard to save money the last few years. It has made the college search much less stressful. Keep repeating, Jane!

[LibraryLover]

What Jane said! I started listening to her, and we have worked very hard to save money the last few years. It has made the college search much less stressful. Keep repeating, Jane!

 

 

We did save. We also have investments that aren't doing as well as we had hoped. This is a tough economy.

[Momof3littles]

Thank you for sharing your experience. IME, so many people have a mentality that they worked their way through college, or took on loans to cover the cost, and their kids can do the same. I am not opposed to my children taking on some loans, but I think many people do not realize how rapidly costs have escalated. I graduated undergrad in 2000, and at that time my alma mater charged 25K/yr with room and board. It was private, and I did get scholarship money. My parents paid for most of it on a blue collar salary because they were pretty conservative with money. I did take on some loans, but nothing extraordinary. My alma mater now charges nearly 40K per year with tuition and room and board. That 15K increase has occurred over 12 years. DH attended undergrad at a state school and tuition there was 8K when he attended. It is now 18K. The price more than doubled in the 12 years since he graduated.

 

It is a very, very different environment IMO than it was a decade or two ago.

 

I appreciate you sharing your experience. It isn't encouraging, but it is reality for many families. Best wishes to your family.

 

eta: I attended a private, more expensive university because of a specific major that was not readily available at the state universities. It was a highly employable field, in demand (still is), etc. so it was worth it to me at the time, although now I am a SAHM. There were 2 in-state universities that offered that major and were quite affordable, but one had a poor reputation in my major, and I'm thankful I didn't choose that option because it would have impacted my career options. The 2nd university in my state that was affordable was also at the time a very unsafe university area. Very, very dangerous campus. The 25K/yr private was a much better option in terms of career. Sometimes it doesn't matter, sometimes it does. DH is a state college grad and it worked out fine for him because he was at the top of his class. He went on to pursue a PhD. If he had wanted to go into academia with his PhD, his undergrad would not have had the right pedigree for certain academic positions. It would have been totally acceptable for many, but not all types of academic jobs.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Momof3littles

[Jane in NC]

Good grief! Where do you all live???

 

I have two kids in college. The tuition for both state universities (two different ones) they attend is about $2,300 per semester. My son has a half academic scholarship, my dd has a full tuition/fees scholarship for ballet.

 

My son lives at home right now and commutes, so his costs were basically $1,000 per semester plus books, which cost less than $500. Oh, and the parking pass for $50.

 

 

Agreeing that many instate schools are still reasonable in cost, but not everyone lives within commuting distance of an instate uni. Even if there is an instate school within commuting distance, it may not offer the major that your student wants. For example, I tutored a young man who lived at home while doing core classes at our regional university. When he transferred to an engineering school, it did not take him two years to finish his degree--it took three. Our local university offers math and physics, but not the basic engineering courses, things like material science. I'm not sure if there were any net savings had he lived on campus at the engineering school from the start.

[LisaKinVA]

We did save. We also have investments that aren't doing as well as we had hoped. This is a tough economy.

 

This is us... we've had our investments/savings wiped out twice in 15 years. The first time, we lost $70,000. The second time, $30,000. We are still recovering. My oldest son's college fund is still worth less than when it was started...13 years ago.

 

We live in a high COL area, and I'm back to work full-time (from home). My new position has a HUGE upside, but I'm not counting on anything except my base...which is enough to take the pressure off, but won't be nearly enough to cover school expenses for our oldest, let alone 5. Hopefully we find out about the transfer soon, so we can make other decisions. He has a goal of attending MIT -- if we're making what we make now, it will be affordable. If my income goes up substantially, we're going to have to pay out of pocket for a significant amount. I'm glad I still have 6.5 years to figure it out.

[Jane in NC]

What Jane said! I started listening to her, and we have worked very hard to save money the last few years. It has made the college search much less stressful. Keep repeating, Jane!

 

Thanks for the positive feedback Caroline!

 

I have a nephew who recently had his first child. Aunt Jane is nagging him to open an online account with the US Treasury so I can buy savings bonds for this kid who will get enough cheap plastic stuff without my contribution.

[jenniferlee]

This is what I was thinking as well:

 

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago? I graduated with a bachelor of arts from a state college in the early 1990s. My parents didn't pay a dime. I had a few small scholarships my first year and then just worked my way through for years 2-4.5. I received some grants and had some loans, but when I graduated, the loans were less than $10,000 I believe

 

 

I went to a very good, smaller, private university in Washington state. Graduated in 96. My loans were $25,000 for all four years. I had some scholarships, some financial aid. Now, I'm not sure even the $25,000 was worth it, but I cannot even get my head around what you guys are all talking about. I guess I'd better be doing some more research if we are thinking about our kids going to college. We have 5!

[amy g.]

In our family, we have an agreement that none of us will take on debt other than a mortgage.

 

Ds, 16 already has many credits towards a degree at the community college. By the time he turns 18, he will have a 2 year degree, and transfer to a state school as a junior. He can live at home, and drive to Texas A&M, or he can live with my sister and go to the University of Texas. I can pay two years of his tuition, fees and books if he pays his own day to day expenses.

 

Dd, 17 will be starting community college in the fall, then transferring to the dairy science program at A&M while she lives at home, and continues running her own business.

 

We believe the college experience can be great, if you can pay for it outright, but it is not anything we would consider going into debt over.

 

In Texas, coming from a state school opens more doors than an Ivy league degree. We have a friend who went to Princeton on a full scholarship, and has had nothing but trouble here because rednecks assume he is a snob and a Yankee.

 

I know things are more difficult now than when Dh and I put ourselves through school, but their are options and choices out there other than debt.

[Shellydon]

We already have 8 years of college paid for for our children. Our plan is for them to do dual enrollment in high school, take CLEP tests and attend college while living at home for at least one year.

[MrsBear]

The state school costs close to $23' date='000 with room and board. So again, she borrows $5,500 her first year, leaving a $17,500 gap. She did receive an award for having high MCAS scores, so that takes about $1,700 off of that, and she is receiving a few scholarships (she got the Best Buy scholarship and a few local ones) so that will take off another $3,000 or so, but that still leaves about a $13,000 gap. Per year.

 

 

[/quote']

 

While I can empathize, it is expensive, also consider that her 7 AP exams with 4 and 5 scores take 7 classes off her requirements, saving money since she'll finish sooner.

 

She can also look at the option to do CLEP exams for subjects she's confident she'll be able to master independently, take the exams and save thousands by doing that. It is one of the things I did to shave years off my undergrad studies that I was paying for myself and graduated debt-free going to a private university that was very expensive.

 

When I was paying for school, I opted to live off campus because on-campus costs were so high and I could find a really cute studio nearby for less and when adding in food and transportation, my cost to live off campus was about half for the year versus nine months on campus. Another option may be to purchase a condo nearby, pay the mortgage, have her live there with a roommate from school and when she's done, sell the condo and recoup your money. I have a few friends whose parents did that when they were in school - my parents weren't in such a financial position, but if it's feasible, it's something to consider since the room mate rent can often pay the mortgage costs.

 

I worked full-time as a nanny while I was going to school also - I had to pay for college myself and being a nanny paid much better than a regular job and the hours were such that I took some classes in the morning before going to work, but more in the evening after I was done with work. While the kids napped, I studied and I studied at night when I was home and I studied to take CLEP exams.

 

While it wasn't an option when I was going to college, look at options for online classes that can be transferred to her transcript - from what I've seen looking online, often community colleges have online classes offered that are much less expensive and the credits transfer.

 

The other option may be to consider her staying home and doing distance learning online through the state university for the core requirements, saving the cost of room and board for a couple of years with her still living at home.

 

Not taking the summer off and taking classes then also can speed up her finishing her degree. Or she can use the summer for online classes and/or CLEP study.

[StaceyinLA]

My oldest dd went to a smaller university (not a cc, but not LSU) right after graduating. I think it was around $3500/semester. At that time, we qualified for some grant money, and she got about half paid. She borrowed the rest on a Stafford loan in her name only.

 

Other dd attends the cc. It's about $1200/semester not including books. We were eligible for aid in the beginning, because we had two in college, and it was completely paid for one year. We paid the next year. With dh's income increase, we are now eligible for nothing (not complaining), so we pay oop for her to attend. When she moves to the larger university to do the dental hygiene program, we will pay part and she may have to borrow part, depending on whether DS is in college yet at that point.

 

All of my kids have the option to live here and have food and expenses paid during school. They work to pay for gas and other things they want. We have provided them all a car, and we pay repairs. I would NOT pay for my kids to live on campus, or anywhere else. If they choose to do that, they best be able to pay for it.

 

I think one can have a college experience without living on campus.

[Night Elf]

I don't know what my dc will do when college time comes, but I seriously doubt we will have the money to help much, and what we've put into savings for them is very small. Dh and I both went back to college 4 and 5 years out of high school and had to work and take out loans, while taking a full course load. We finally paid off our students loans a few years ago. If they want to go to college, they will most likely have to pay for it themselves and figure out how to go about that. It was hard for dh and me, but made us serious about what we were doing.

 

:iagree: What it boils down to for me is that someone will have to go into debt for college. That means it's either us (parents) or them (children). In our working lives, we have paid off student loans and saved money for retirement. We believe our children will have the same responsibilities. I just don't get the attitude that I'm selfish if I don't spend my retirement money on putting the kids through school. If our kids want to go to college, they will have to take out loans to do it. It wasn't the end of the world for us to do that for ourselves, it won't be the end of the world for them. It is what it is.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago? I graduated with a bachelor of arts from a state college in the early 1990s. My parents didn't pay a dime. I had a few small scholarships my first year and then just worked my way through for years 2-4.5. I received some grants and had some loans, but when I graduated, the loans were less than $10,000 I believe (and part of me wants to say half of that). I had them paid off before I married two years after I graduated. My husband also paid for his own schooling (same college) and I don't believe he took out any loans at all, just worked his way through. What has changed so drastically much? I remember hearing "college is expensive" back then, too.

 

We have no plans to fund a post-secondary education for our kids. I have a great job right now that I was trained for in six weeks. My husband never used his degree either and makes decent money.

 

To the OP, thanks for your post. It had one particular point in it that was useful for me. I'm sorry you're facing what you're facing (although I'd recommend the community college route all the same; I had the "college experience" and don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be).

 

College is much, much more expensive now:(

 

I had only $5000.00 in student loans for a 4 year bachelors from a university from about 25 years ago. DH had about the same.

 

Now a days, it is common for students to have $100,000 and more in student loans:001_huh: This tells me something is drastically wrong with the cost of education these days and that something needs to be done.

 

Of course, I don't think college is the be all and end all. I also think college is not for everybody and that vocational schools are a great option for many.

 

As for community colleges, they are not always a great option for everyone:(

 

OTOH I am very concerned that only the "haves" will be able to afford college soon which is wrong if this country values and educated populace.

[DarlaS]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

:iagree:

 

Whatever the college experience is, it can't be worth 52k--or more per kid if your kid switches majors or just takes longer. Since only about 30% of college students actually graduate in four years. This bears mentioning.

 

In our family (decidedly middle class), it would be a minimum of 18-25k per year for state school X 4 kids. No thanks. That's 288-400k before any kind of interest.

[justasque]

As a data point, for Penn State (main campus), tuition is around $15K for freshmen. Doesn't sound too bad, right? Now add $860 in required fees, $9420 room and board, books & supplies $1500, Transport $800 (obviously will vary based on your location), "other expenses" $3200. You're up to around $31K. (Times 4 years = 124K. What kid can make that kind of money, especially while going to school?) If your home was nearby, you could live at home and go without the room, but you still have to eat, buy books, get to and from campus, and buy incidentals.

 

In my experience, similarly ranked private schools are about $20K more, plus or minus, and if you're lucky they'll give some merit money to bring the cost down to around where Penn State is. In applying for schools, you actually have no idea how much they'll cost you, because you don't get that info until the spring, while apps are due the previous fall/winter. I would not limit applications to schools with a low sticker price, but at the same time I'd be realistic up-front with kids about which schools are likely to be a financial stretch.

 

Full rides are few and far between. Look around you - I know tons of very well-qualified college kids, but only three I can think of who got close to a full ride; two of those had significant financial need and were merit scholars, and one went to Olin (a new school which offered full rides for its first few years; they were very hard to get). Another kid I know got quite serious money, but at a school well below his academic ability; it's not going well for him, his time would have been better spent at a better school. Half off is a realistic goal for kids with a good academic record and good test scores. Merit money goes up as the school's academic rigor/ranking goes down, so it's a trade-off in many cases. A free ride isn't worth much if it's at a school that doesn't challenge the student to their potential. I wouldn't put a good student in a homeschool co-op class full of mediocre peers; even more so at the college level. More good students are choosing the state schools, making their academic environment better, but also making them harder to get into.

 

(For accurate info about a school, do look at the Common Data Set document for that school. It isn't always easy to find, but it's very useful.)

[Plucky]

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago? I graduated with a bachelor of arts from a state college in the early 1990s. My parents didn't pay a dime. I had a few small scholarships my first year and then just worked my way through for years 2-4.5. I received some grants and had some loans, but when I graduated, the loans were less than $10,000 I believe (and part of me wants to say half of that). I had them paid off before I married two years after I graduated. My husband also paid for his own schooling (same college) and I don't believe he took out any loans at all, just worked his way through. What has changed so drastically much? I remember hearing "college is expensive" back then, too.

 

We have no plans to fund a post-secondary education for our kids. I have a great job right now that I was trained for in six weeks. My husband never used his degree either and makes decent money.

 

To the OP, thanks for your post. It had one particular point in it that was useful for me. I'm sorry you're facing what you're facing (although I'd recommend the community college route all the same; I had the "college experience" and don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be).

 

Yes, in fact in my state nearly all the state school's tuition just went up by 20%. It now averages 12.5K a year in tuition only.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree: What it boils down to for me is that someone will have to go into debt for college. That means it's either us (parents) or them (children). In our working lives, we have paid off student loans and saved money for retirement. We believe our children will have the same responsibilities. I just don't get the attitude that I'm selfish if I don't spend my retirement money on putting the kids through school. If our kids want to go to college, they will have to take out loans to do it. It wasn't the end of the world for us to do that for ourselves, it won't be the end of the world for them. It is what it is.

 

Yes but college debt and the cost of college are exponentially more than it was 20 to 30 years year even when inflation is taken into consideration.

 

I agree that retirement is important and that students should try to pay their way for college but today it is like climbing Mount Everest instead of walking up a knoll.

 

I think our country needs to do something to fix this situation. IMO perhaps, high school should end after sophmore year (with the caveat that a strong education is supplied) and the last 2 years of high school should be the attainment of an associate degree or vocational school paid for with school taxes. I am sure there a multitude of solutions but IMO parents and students should not have to take out the equivalent of a mortgage to get a an education. Our country will suffer if we end up with an uneducated populace.

[Plucky]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

I am pro-cc, too. However, some 4-year schools have programs that are very competitive and selective and it can take 4-5 years in their program. Heck, it may take 2 years to just get into their program.

 

I'm still a bit bewildered by my son's more selective first choice. Not everything is as we think it will be until we get there. And yes, it will cost us quite a bit.

 

ETA: My ds is finishing his 2nd year in CC btw.

Edited April 18, 2012 by True Blue

[Hoggirl]

Thank you for posting this.

 

My mantra regarding college is to start saving at birth. Parents on this board have regularly pooh-poohed me. But having taught at state universities, I have witnessed how few students at our public institutions earn scholarships. Sure, they are a "bargain" compared to private colleges, but many parents do not have the $60K+ for state schools.

 

That said, I will continue to recommend that students apply to private colleges. The OP mentioned a significant gap between the cost of these schools and merit aid. Sometimes. But private colleges can be cheaper (after merit and financial aid) than state schools for some students. One does not know unless one applies.

 

I am sorry you have been "regularly pooh-poohed." I can't imagine why anyone would pooh-pooh someone for saving for their children's educations.

 

I am too techno-challenged to multi-quote, but I have seen several comments that are right on target. In general, I think there are two major issues involved these days for folks when it comes to college:

 

1) Sticker shock - people have NO idea how expensive it is.

2) Misinformed about the availability of merit scholarships - people have NO idea how competitive they are.

 

For some reason, even though the price of everything else has risen, people seem to think this has not happened to college costs??? We have facilitated Financial Peace classes in the past, and I am always stunned when people simply have NO idea how expensive college is now. Related to this is the other poster's comment about working one's way through college - it just cannot be done as it was twenty-five or thirty years ago. I went to a private liberal arts college. When I graduated the cost of everything - tuition, room & board, fees, books, was around $8,500 per year. Interestingly, my college boyfriend's father and grandmother had both attended the same school. From the time grandma went to when dad went, the total cost had quadrupled. From the time dad went to when my then boyfriend went, the cost had also quadrupled. Since I graduated, the cost has rise five-fold (don't know what that word is :lol: quintupled???). My dh attended the state flagship. It is now about four to five times as much as when he graduated. Around $16,000 - $17,000 per year (including room and board, which is required for freshman unless they live at home).

 

Merit money can be extremely hard to come by. At our state flagship where dh attended, currently in order to be considered for a fellowship which equals a full-ride, one must have a minimum of a 32 on the ACT and at least a 3.8 unweighted GPA. And it certainly isn't a "public ivy" like UVA or UNC. We had friends whose son graduated from high school in 2011. There were 900 applicants who met those minimum requirements for those 75 fellowships. Her ds did not qualify to apply. He had a 34 on the ACT, but his unweighted GPA was a 3.78. Our state does have a lottery scholarship with extremely low requirements for obtaining it, but it is only $4,500. Maybe about 60% of the tuition alone??? We did have friends with a dd who also graduated in 2011 who was able to attend an out-of-state private school for the same amount it would have taken for her to attend our state flagship because she received a nice scholarship at the private school.

 

As another poster said, one must do one's research. I am of the mindset that parents need to express to their children from the get-go just exactly how much they are willing to contribute. And kids need to understand what it takes to be competitive to get scholarship $$$ at schools that are beyond what parents are willing to pay.

 

I also agree that test scores can be a key factor. For better or worse, colleges typically use grades and test scores as a line of demarcation for consideration for merit scholarships.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Hoggirl
typo

[Unicorn.]

There are smaller, community colleges that have dorms. It would be cheaper than University, and they would still get that on-campus experience.