11yo dd said something very disturbing last night...

[Julpost]

I woke up late last night when my 11yo dd came into my room and quietly sat on my bed. I asked her what was wrong, she sighed and said tearfully," I just don't feel like life is worth living."

 

I was stunned and didn't really know what to say. I said we'd talk about it in the morning. She stayed in my room for the rest of the night. I don't think she slept much.

 

Needless to say, I didn't sleep well and have been thinking about what to do.

 

She has been having a terrible time doing her schoolwork. She's very unmotivated and the only way we get anything done is if I'm on her constantly about it. Then I get the heavy sighs and eye-rolling. She sleeps late and I've been letting her because I thought if she got enough sleep, maybe that would help with how things go during the day. She LOVES reading in bed at night, I try to make sure her light is out by 10pm. So even though she sleeps in (is usually up by 9am), I do emphasize that she needs to get her work done and if she chooses to go to sleep so late and then sleep in, she just has to realize that she might have to work a little later in the day.

 

Other than in all things school related, she seems like a happy girl. She enjoys having company over (doesn't happen often enough though), she plays well with her siblings, she loves to cook for us, and she seems to find joy in her pet chinchilla. She doesn't seem like a depressed person to me. Just in school stuff, it's like when she starts mulling over the work part of her life, she gets very sulky and pouty. I've been trying to ignore it and let her deal with it, I don't know how to inspire motivation.

 

However, this just occurred to me, I did just read last night an article, in The Old Schoolhouse, by A.Pudewa (sp?) about how he inspired his 12 yo dd....he basically gave her more free reign over what she would study but enforced at least 4 hrs. of study a day and she kept a time time log that she would turn into him. She often would work till 9 or 10pm because she wasted so much time during the day. But that seemed to do the trick with her.

 

So I guess my question is, how much should I worry over this comment? She has said it before, in very dramatic moments. There is a history of depression on dh's side of the family, I don't want to err on the side of not giving her feelings the merit they probably deserve. But I'm having a hard time because, in my family, you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and did what you needed to do, and with a good attitude, regardless of how you felt about it. The positive feelings often followed later. But this hasn't often resonated well w/dh, who tends to be more moody and sensitive.

 

Thanks for listening! Any advice??

[Melissa in Australia]

no advice

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[mumto2]

I have a dd13. She does have control over much of her school. It is working well for us.

 

I would have a look at what books and films she has watched lately. Any dramatic friends? My dd was the most emotionally controlled person around then she met a drama queen. Now she enjoys being one too. We ignore her if possible. It is improving.

 

I am not advising you to ignore a statement like the one your dd made. But to see if it was triggered by something other than her emotions. That doesn't mean that she doesn't feel that way but it does mean that you may be able to change what has made her unhappy enough to feel this way. It could be as easy as different curriculum that she helps select and is responsible for.

 

:grouphug:

[awisha.]

Unfortunately no advice either just :grouphug: too :)

[JFSinIL]

I would definitely have her speak to a child psych. - she may (or may not) need anti-depressants. Celexa is what our neuro. says is safe for kids. Depression can hit kids as well as adults, and should be taken seriously.

[LNC]

I would take it seriously! I felt overwhelmed like that as a preteen. Our family had issues, but I would mostly get overwhelmed from the stress of schoolwork and where I fit in the world - wanting to be "good" at things.

 

I would wonder if she's spending her time reading emotionally intense books?

 

I would give things to look forward to, make sure you are helping her develop friendships and make your home a haven for them to spend time together. I would spend time with her apart from school work when you can affirm her, tell her you have faith in her etc.

 

I don't think I would change your requirements for school unless they are completely unreasonable. Maybe you could post her schedule? I would lessen how "onto her" you are and just have a checklist her husband can oversee with you.

If she doesn't improve quickly I would take her to your pediatrician. :grouphug:

Edited April 13, 2012 by LNC

[Denisemomof4]

That is a serious comment that should be taken very seriously. Because of the depression in dh's family anD because she has said something simlilar before, i think she is crying out for help. Please get her some help.

 

I can only imagine how much your heart is breaking.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[sharon&4boys]

:iagree:

That is a serious comment that should be taken very seriously. Because of the depression in dh's family anD because she has said something simlilar before, i think she is crying out for help. Please get her some help.

 

I can only imagine how much your heart is breaking.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

A child is not going to come to you and say, "I'm depressed." But they might say something like, "I don't feel like life is worth living." It is a cry for help; she is telling you that she needs your help to manage how discouraged she feels. She has let you in on her inmost feelings by saying this. Tread lightly; by all means, don't imply that she should just "pull herself up by her own bootstraps." This could shut her down and cause her not to share with you the next time she feels discouraged, because she would feel that you don't understand her.

 

You should probably get her evaluated by a doctor. My family has tendencies to depression (two members have committed suicide over the years). As a teen I used to feel overwhelmed, but felt like I couldn't stop doing anything because I wanted to be good at everything (and externally, it looked like I was excelling in every area). I struggled deeply with depression during my college years & succumbed to an eating disorder. If my mother had recognized the symptoms and I'd been taken in to be evaluated, many of these struggles might have been avoided - of course, anti-depressants were not prescribed as much back then, so maybe I would not have gotten what I needed anyway.

 

I now take a low-dose of generic Zoloft daily, and it has helped tremendously with all kinds of things. I hope my comments help; with your husband's background, it is possible your daughter will need some assistance with overcoming her hopeless feelings. Being low on certain body chemicals is not a sin or fault. Thank God that there is medicine now to help with continual feelings of deep discouragement.

[Onceuponatime]

Having battled with mild depression myself, and having a couple of sons with a tendency to pout or get melancholy, I do a couple of things:

 

1. I tell them that late in the evenings or times when we are tired, our minds sometimes travel to the negative and start camping there. Very often it doesn't really mean anything. We can choose to find pleasant things to think about instead. What are you looking forward to? What things do you have going for you? What nice memories can you replay?

 

2. I do a quick run down of their current life situation. Are you sick? Are you hungry? Is there anything you need that you don't have? Do your parents love you and take care of you? (of course they do!) Is there a specific problem that needs taking care of? Most of the time the answers show that nothing is really wrong, just a general feeling of blah or a need to do something with someone. These times I really try to install a need for an attitude of gratitude, and maybe find something fun or productive for the child to do.

 

3. If I know it is a reaction to the daily work or chores (this is the case with one of my children), I talk and talk about how fortunate they are to be living in this day and age, bladdy, bladdy, blah, blah. Soon they are begging me to stop, so they can get their work done, for goodness sakes, Mom!

 

4. I teach them that it is ok to love themselves. It is ok to feel good about accomplishments, even small ones. It is ok, even good, to carry positive statements about themselves around in their heads. "My parents love me." "I enjoy____." "I am well taken care of." "I'm pretty good at___." "I love my____."

 

Would we like someone who was always bombarding us with negative statements about ourselves? What makes us think that it is acceptable to abuse ourselves in that way? We need to take care of our minds as well as our bodies.

 

5. Last, but not least, I try to remember to focus on positive things myself. A little honest praise or pat on the back for a good job, verbally noticing things in life that I am grateful for, a verbal trip to a happy memory now and then. Being an extreme introvert, this is not always easy for me.

 

Besides all this, I try not to cater to moods too much and treat them as a normal part of life. Unless something is seriously wrong, or things get alarming in some way, it really is pretty normal. This is my experience, maybe you can get a little something from it. :-)

 

 

ETA: I guess I think about this issue a lot differently than most of the other posters. I don't believe in medicating for depression unless it there is a clear reason for it. In my experience being on medication, and being labelled "depressed" can exacerbate the problem. I also believe that the chemical imbalances that cause depression are most often caused by poor mental habits and not understanding how the brain and body rely on each other, *if there is not an outside issue like grief or abuse.* It is truly empowering to gain understanding about how or why we react to certain things in certain ways and to know we can take control of our thoughts. Again, mental self-abuse seems to be so common today that it looks like an epidemic to me. I don't see medication making things a whole lot better, because it often does not address the root of the problem, but the symptoms, IMHO.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Onceuponatime

[sharon&4boys]

Having battled with mild depression myself, and having a couple of sons with a tendency to pout or get melancholy, I do a couple of things:

 

1. I tell them that late in the evenings or times when we are tired, our minds sometimes travel to the negative and start camping there. Very often it doesn't really mean anything. We can choose to find pleasant things to think about instead. What are you looking forward to? What things do you have going for you? What nice memories can you replay?

 

2. I do a quick run down of their current life situation. Are you sick? Are you hungry? Is there anything you need that you don't have? Do your parents love you and take care of you? (of course they do!) Is there a specific problem that needs taking care of? Most of the time the answers show that nothing is really wrong, just a general feeling of blah or a need to do something with someone. These times I really try to install a need for an attitude of gratitude, and maybe find something fun or productive for the child to do.

 

3. If I know it is a reaction to the daily work or chores (this is the case with one of my children), I talk and talk about how fortunate they are to be living in this day and age, bladdy, bladdy, blah, blah. Soon they are begging me to stop, so they can get their work done, for goodness sakes, Mom!

 

4. I teach them that it is ok to love themselves. It is ok to feel good about accomplishments, even small ones. It is ok, even good, to carry positive statements about themselves around in their heads. "My parents love me." "I enjoy____." "I am well taken care of." "I'm pretty good at___." "I love my____."

 

Would we like someone who was always bombarding us with negative statements about ourselves? What makes us think that it is acceptable to abuse ourselves in that way? We need to take care of our minds as well as our bodies.

 

5. Last, but not least, I try to remember to focus on positive things myself. A little honest praise or pat on the back for a good job, verbally noticing things in life that I am grateful for, a verbal trip to a happy memory now and then. Being an extreme introvert, this is not always easy for me.

 

Besides all this, I try not to cater to moods too much and treat them as a normal part of life. Unless something is seriously wrong, or things get alarming in some way, it really is pretty normal. This is my experience, maybe you can get a little something from it. :-)

 

I think these are all excellent tips. They can help to manage feelings on a daily basis. Still, if she were to be evaluated & try an antidepressant, it could raise the baseline quite a bit (lows not as low). You don't become someone else on antidepressants, so you still need to have good thought habits to manage your emotions & feelings about yourself.

[NanceXToo]

If I had a kid who was literally being kept awake at night with thoughts that their life wasn't worth living AND it wasn't the first time comments like those had come up AND there was a history of depression in the family, there is no way I would sweep that under the rug with pep talks. I'd take her to her doctor to be evaluated for a possible anti-depressant, because it's better to be safe than sorry. The last thing you need is your child trying to kill herself and you saying "if only I had...."

 

I think onceuponatime had some good tips, but for me they'd be in conjunction with the visit to the doctor, not instead of.

[Joanne]

She needs to be assessed by a professional as to the extent and depth of those thoughts.

 

{{{hugs to you both}}}

 

Remember, depression is a clinical issue; something is WRONG with her body. It's treatable, and often both counseling/therapy and meds work well.

[lisamarie]

Yes, I would take it seriously. I was about that age (6th-7th grade) when I started being very depressed, contemplating suicide, started having an eating disorder. Just because she's HSed doesn't mean she's immune to the yuck of middle school. Her emotions are still those of a middle school girl. She's still going to go through puberty and experience mood swings, body image issues, self esteem issues, etc.

 

I would have a serious discussion with her, try to find out what's behind her statement. Was she hurt by something someone said, interested in a boy that isn't interested in her, bored and in need of something new, etc? I would actively pursue something for her that will help boost her self esteem. Maybe some community service type stuff so she's helping others.

 

Blah. This thread is bringing back some very bad memories from my own childhood. I hope and pray that my girls manage to escape it, but my guess is they probably won't.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would start by talking with her and asking her what's making her feel that way. She's the only one who can give you that answer. Maybe it's schoolwork, or maybe it's something else, or maybe she doesn't even know what it is - which might indicate her depression is more of a medical issue. All the suggestions about watching what she's reading and seeing are great, and also talk about anything she's seen and read. Talk about what she talks about with her friends when they do get together. Definitely see the doctor. Maybe you could also start something new. Create a special time just for both of you to spend together - not on schoolwork - where you can chat about anything. Maybe it's time for a cup of tea or hot chocolate as a morning or afternoon break, or a walk together after dinner - whatever will give her the chance to talk about anything on her mind. I'll be praying for both of you. :grouphug:

[momma aimee]

I would definitely have her speak to a child psych. - she may (or may not) need anti-depressants. Celexa is what our neuro. says is safe for kids. Depression can hit kids as well as adults, and should be taken seriously.

 

:iagree:

[tori@thehomefront]

First of all, hugs for momma! :grouphug:

 

My 11yo ds recently went through a stretch where he would wake up at night with panic attack-like symptoms, and he would say similar things. Like your dd, he seemed perfectly fine the rest of the time.

 

I'm not familiar with depression in kids, but in our case, having him talk with dh helped. I don't think he was technically depressed, but just at an "in-between" stage...growing up, leaving the goofy-little-boy stage behind, thinking about more mature things. [sorry if that's not very clear...I'm not sure how to explain it. :D ]

 

Hope this is the case with your dd, and this is just a stage. It is very worrisome when your kiddos come to you with statements like that.

[Lolly]

First, I would talk to her. Does she want to see a doctor? if she does, I would try to take her if possible. Then, I would do everything Onceuponatime suggests. I would also make sure she was getting more sunshine and more exercise. She also would benefit from finding a community service that she can perform. At her age, you will probably be required to go be present. Helping others is one of the best ways to feel good about yourself.

[Chris in VA]

I would agree with those who say getting a professional to evaluate her will go far to help you and your dd feel better. Don't be her therapist. Be her parent.

 

And don't let the thought of possibly being prescribed meds scare you away from taking her for a check-up. There are lots of alternatives for children, and, even if they do prescribe something, think of it as medicine to correct what's wrong, like a diabetic takes insulin. If she's clinically depressed, her brain chemistry is off. Meds can help, but like I said, they aren't the only weapon in the arsenal.

 

It can be short-term, too, and situational. IMO, it's best to get it checked out in a matter-of-fact way.

 

Pls let her see someone.

[Parrothead]

Get her to the pediatrician for a referral to a child psychologist and possibly medication. Today. This is not something you want to play around with or take a wait and see approach.

 

Lock up any an all medications no matter how safe they seem.

[Trish]

Or, it might be the age.

[torikei]

Have you considered ADHD (inattentive)? Is she disorganized and a daydreamer? Without the hyperactivity, this issue is often missed. Symptoms do include depression?

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Tori

[Shellers]

... So I guess my question is, how much should I worry over this comment? She has said it before, in very dramatic moments. There is a history of depression on dh's side of the family, I don't want to err on the side of not giving her feelings the merit they probably deserve. But I'm having a hard time because, in my family, you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and did what you needed to do, and with a good attitude, regardless of how you felt about it. The positive feelings often followed later. But this hasn't often resonated well w/dh, who tends to be more moody and sensitive.

 

Thanks for listening! Any advice??

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

My DD16 has struggled with depression since she was about eight years old. There is a history of depression on both sides of the family.

 

If your DD is clinically depressed, no amount of pulling herself up by the bootstraps is going to help, she needs medication due to an imbalance in her brain. Talking yourself out of clinical depression isn't likely to work. Since your DD came and told you when nothing was going on, she didn't do it for attention, I would take what she said extremely serious.

 

Two years ago, out of the blue, I got a call from my DD's junior high school. The sheriff had been called by the principal because my DD made a similar comment to a teacher. My DD ended up in the hospital. She had been off her depression medicine for a year or so and had been struggling to keep her depression under control and she could no longer handle it on her own. It took quite awhile to get her depression/anxiety under control, and then it all resurfaced her Freshman year of high school. It took a change of medicine and lots of dosage changes to get the depression under control. It was horrible and one of the main reason's I pulled her from school.

 

I recommend you take your DD to a child psychiatrist ASAP. Don't ignore this.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Shellers

[Xilka]

I woke up late last night when my 11yo dd came into my room and quietly sat on my bed. I asked her what was wrong, she sighed and said tearfully," I just don't feel like life is worth living."

 

So I guess my question is, how much should I worry over this comment? She has said it before, in very dramatic moments. There is a history of depression on dh's side of the family, I don't want to err on the side of not giving her feelings the merit they probably deserve. But I'm having a hard time because, in my family, you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and did what you needed to do, and with a good attitude, regardless of how you felt about it. The positive feelings often followed later. But this hasn't often resonated well w/dh, who tends to be more moody and sensitive.

 

Thanks for listening! Any advice??

 

I was like your daughter, and my mother had your same pull up your bootstraps attitude, which was good for me to a point, but past that point just made me feel alone and unprotected. Just make sure you give her lots of space to talk about it - but don't push.

 

Life can be pretty crap sometimes. Some people just dwell on it more.

 

BTW, what is she reading? If she stays up late reading, and came to your room late at night, maybe it's about what she was reading.

 

FWIW - I've grown up to be a pretty practical person and no longer let irrational feelings get in my way. I worked hard to get there. Funny thing is that now the tables have turned and my mother, in her late 50's, was dealing with depression for the first time. Part of me wanted to say "Just Get Over It" like she used to say to me. Instead, I shared some of the techniques that worked for me. She definitely has a different view on the pulling up of bootstraps now.

[Alyeska]

A visit to the doctor and psych is in order.

 

The doctor can check for thyroid imbalance, which can trigger depression and moodiness, plus the sleeping a lot sounds 'off'.

 

Depression is a strange thing...and manifests itself strangely sometimes. When I was at my worst, I could be happy go lucky one minute and super down the next (and I'm not manic). It may not make sense to those who've never been depressed. But it is easy to be depressed and still be able to have fun and laugh and play. The times of quiet, inactivity, boredom, doing difficult things (like school work), being tired...those times were the worst for me. Your dd said this to you late at night when she was tired. She was probably laying in bed thinking for a good while before coming in to tell you. That tells me that she needs help.

 

She may or may not talk to you or your dh honestly simply because now it is the daytime and she has things to do and will be busy. She has things to think about besides her feelings. Don't know if that makes sense, but it does to me because I've btdt. Your dh seems concerned and has suffered from depression. That is all the more reason to get her to the doctor. 2 of your dearest family members are telling you something is off...please listen.

[Alyeska]

I was like your daughter, and my mother had your same pull up your bootstraps attitude, which was good for me to a point, but past that point just made me feel alone and unprotected. Just make sure you give her lots of space to talk about it - but don't push.

 

:iagree: A person who is depressed can't 'snap out of it' or pull themselves up on their own.

[sweetsouthern]

i agree with a few of the others. this is how my dd started. i think its basicaly hormones for her, but she takes celexa and it has helped alot! she also has a therapist she sees every week. her therapist is like 25 years old, very "cool" and almost like her best friend. if she could go to the mall with this girl she would!! that has also helped her so much!! its like she has a built in person, who she can trust and understands her, as compared to a "doctor" she sees each week. although she does see the psychiatrist for her meds monthly quick. :)

 

:grouphug:

[Stacy in NJ]

Or, it might be the age.

 

start wondering what it's all about. They're growing, they're emotional, they're immature. Many, many young people start to question the why's of their life at this stage. I wouldn't assume she's depressed or that she need professional help or medication.

 

Does she have interests outside the home? Plays a sport or belongs to a club or activity? I would be trying the help her develop interests outside of academics to fill her time and imagination. I would listen non-judgementally to her when she expresses her feelings, but I would also reassure her that these feelings are normal.

[WistfulRidge]

That is a serious comment that should be taken very seriously. Because of the depression in dh's family anD because she has said something similar before, i think she is crying out for help. Please get her some help.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Just wanted to add: that just because she doesn't seem depressed doesn't mean she isn't. I've struggled with depression since I was 9. It is much easier to pretend that you are happy than to ask for help or express your feelings and have them ignored or dismissed as just "teen/preteen angst". It is also possible, I've found, to be both happy and miserably depressed at the same time, almost all the time.

[AuntieM]

Lots of good advice already. I'll just echo that you really need to check her input.

 

There's a lot I've had my kids hold off on until they're older. Not everyone feels the same. What I believe IS necessary is to know what's going in so you're ready to help process emotions through discussion.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

You are in a scary spot. But acknowledging and addressing it is a huge giod step! I look forward to your future post letting us know the sunshine has returned.

 

[ETA Sorry if my post was rather obtuse. By input I mean reading material, movies and music. I know one young lady profoundly affected by a couple of Avril Levigne lyrics. Books like The Hunger Games and Twilight are emotionally intense. My 7 yo just went through a weepy stage after reading a young readers' version of a Katrina survivor's story. I am not *criticizing* what anyone decides to let their students put into the bank. I just think some things need more vigilance to evaluate the effects on a young one's thought life, kwim? A small thought, simmered over, can boil over.

Edited April 13, 2012 by AuntieM

[Catherine]

I would take it seriously, though I have to say in his case, his symptoms were pervasive and definitely were there 24\7. The fact that your daughter seems "fine" some of the time is reassuring, as is the fact that she's said similar things before-it makes it more likely that she IS just being dramatic. However, I would watch her closely, and I would have her seen by someone-do you trust your pediatrician? Some kids are basically negative, and if that's her MO most of the time, she may not be depressed, but more, just demoralized or sad. Easier to problem-solve, that!

[Annie Anne]

I woke up late last night when my 11yo dd came into my room . . ." I just don't feel like life is worth living.

I tried to read the whole thread, but might have missed it.

Along with everything else mentioned: What is her Vit D level? Does she have a long standing physical pain. Does she know she does not have to agree with every thought that occurs to her?

When my son went through this we realized he had been living with a sinus headache for years. We had been treating his sinuses for so long the symptoms had become normal. There was never a time when his head did not hurt.

We got massive treatment for it and knocked the infection out. We poured Vit D into him, added some fish oil and did a ton of other things aimed at the physical condition.

Then we taught him to recognize when his thoughts went south and realize he did not have to go with them. He did not know he did not have to agree with every emotion that came along.

 

Fighting emotion is exhausting though, you will need to support her as she learns.

Best of luck,

 

Anne

[Night Elf]

You've gotten great advice. I just wanted to say that my dd14 started acting that way around 12 years old. It was so unlike her so it was difficult to figure out. That was when I found her a place that offered homeschool classes. She needed to get out with other people and do something new. We also found her a weekly acting class that she still takes now. She's not interested in acting like the other kids but she loves the class.

 

Also, she became more independent with school work. I was letting her choose what she wanted to study. It was a transition year for her. I could tell she would be ready for high school a year early so I gave her free reign on the year leading up to high school. From that time, she schedules her own work and sets her own hours. She's the most organized of us all.

 

I think her major problem was that she didn't feel in control of anything. Once I gave her that power, she took off with it. It did help her tremendously.

 

I hope you figure something out. Do listen to her though. Don't dismiss her because of her age and because it looks like she has it all together. She might be feeling more negative at night because her energy for coping during the day is all used up. It can be exhausting to play a role for hours at a time.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would start by talking with her and asking her what's making her feel that way. She's the only one who can give you that answer. Maybe it's schoolwork' date=' or maybe it's something else, or maybe she doesn't even know what it is - which might indicate her depression is more of a medical issue. All the suggestions about watching what she's reading and seeing are great, and also talk about anything she's seen and read. Talk about what she talks about with her friends when they do get together. Definitely see the doctor. Maybe you could also start something new. Create a special time just for both of you to spend together - not on schoolwork - where you can chat about anything. Maybe it's time for a cup of tea or hot chocolate as a morning or afternoon break, or a walk together after dinner - whatever will give her the chance to talk about anything on her mind. I'll be praying for both of you. :grouphug:[/quote']

 

:iagree: :grouphug::grouphug:

[LostSurprise]

I agree that you need to have several discussions with her about what she's feeling, and thinking, what's behind this.

 

This was the age that I started to feel a bit hopeless~socialization became more complex (and I felt like an underdog), hormones were rampant, friends start becoming teens not playmates, expectations increased. I would have been horrified if my mother pushed me to a therapist and started me on medication rather than understanding that this was a special opening into my thoughts. I was trying to let her in so she could help.

 

Unfortunately, she went the other way. She told me I would be fine and not to worry about it.

 

These openings are so rare.

 

So understand the importance of this moment. Perhaps she is depressed and will need a therapist and medication. Monitor the situation, but more than anything feel through the situation to figure out what she thinks she wants when she tells you this. Did she want to be held? Human companionship when nighttime thoughts get too deep for an 11 year old. That happens to me even now as a 39 year old. Does she want someone to listen? Does she want to you tell her what helps you cope with this kind of crisis? Does she need reminders of what makes her special? Does she need encouragement?

 

If the connection doesn't work and this is an ongoing problem definitely taker her to a pediatric psychologist (have your pediatrician refer you). They can help her find tools to deal with these feelings, and maybe they will think medication is in order as well.

 

Don't let it go, but let your first action be to connect with your daughter and see if you have what she's looking for.

[Tiramisu]

Have you had her tested for learning disabilities? That is what was causing my dd to have anxiety and depression. She felt like a failure due to her school problems that we didn't know existed. It looked like she had a bad attitude and wasn't trying. She also has bedtime anxiety and slight OCD. She resists going to bed and likes to stay up late to put it off. That results in her sleeping in longer.

 

We are addressing the issues by backing off and going to a more relaxed style of school while I figure out how to teach to a right brained individual.

 

This age in girls seems to have a lot of issues; maybe hormone related.

 

Have you considered ADHD (inattentive)? Is she disorganized and a daydreamer? Without the hyperactivity, this issue is often missed. Symptoms do include depression?

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Tori

 

I tried to read the whole thread, but might have missed it.

Along with everything else mentioned: What is her Vit D level? Does she have a long standing physical pain. Does she know she does not have to agree with every thought that occurs to her?

When my son went through this we realized he had been living with a sinus headache for years. We had been treating his sinuses for so long the symptoms had become normal. There was never a time when his head did not hurt.

We got massive treatment for it and knocked the infection out. We poured Vit D into him, added some fish oil and did a ton of other things aimed at the physical condition.

Then we taught him to recognize when his thoughts went south and realize he did not have to go with them. He did not know he did not have to agree with every emotion that came along.

 

Fighting emotion is exhausting though, you will need to support her as she learns.

Best of luck,

 

Anne

 

:iagree:with all of these.

 

To be on the safe side, I would connect with a therapist. Also, I'd talk to her pediatrician and get bloodwork done that could help determine if it's something physical like Vit. D or thyroid, for example.

 

10 and 11 is an age where bright kids are no longer able to compensate for any learning disabilities or ADD. Schoolwork becomes very stressful and frustrating for them, and it can make them depressed. The changing hormones also exacerbate these problems. Many of us who would never suspect any kind of learning problem at all in third grade are sometimes blindsided by school-related issues in fifth or sixth that turn out to be ADD or LD's. I wouldn't discount this idea.

[AmyontheFarm]

I want to encourage you, but I'll need to tell you where we walked so you can be encouraged at the outcome.

 

My dd started with saying the same things around age 12. I spent time talking with her, my husband sat and talked with her, we were not enough. It was hard for us as parents to accept that.

 

Things cycled darker, deeper on the home front. I loved being at church because at church she put on the perfect face, attitude and servant's heart. We found we stayed longer and longer at church because it was a relief for us to find our happy go lucky daughter there. We convinced ourselves that if she could turn it on and off then it wasn't that bad.

 

Still we waited. She was now 15 almost 16. After 6 months of what seemed like better attitudes, behaviour and generally better outlook at life, we thought we had walked through the fire and were relived that it was all over.

 

Then we were called into office of our children's pastor. Our daughter was doing an internship at the church. She was cutting. She admitted to cutting for the past 6 months.

 

Our daughter, our beautiful daughter was strategically cutting herself to numb the pain. The cuts were never deep, but cuts don't have to be deep to get infected and kill.

 

Thus, started the whirl wind path we still walk on today. The path we will walk with our daughter for the rest of her life. Did you get that? We've been told repeatedly that once a person starts cutting that they will revert to that behaviour when they feel that they can no longer deal with the emotional pain. We will walk this road with her, always.

 

Intense counseling, embarrassing skin checks (done by mom) to make sure she wasn't secretly cutting. Medicines, her thyrod was out of whack, her iron was depleted and her vitamin D was extremely low. We thought life was frustrating before, it was just plain terrifying now. Now, we fought for our daughter's very life.

 

She's now 18. We haven't had any cutting episodes for over a 19 months. We sat down with her boyfriend, with her permission, and talked with him about what to look for, how we needed his help to make sure she was safe. She likens it to being an alcoholic and asking friends and family to help them by not offering the alcoholic a drink. She wants her family and friends to help her realize that she is sinking and expects us to actively work towards getting her back in therapy, because she knows that if she needs the therapy, she won't want to go to therapy.

 

For what's it's worth, he came to my husband and promised to tell us first if they ever needed to break up, he didn't want her reverting to this practice and having it on his conscience that he might have caused her to hurt herself. Have I mentioned that we like this guy???

 

Please don't wait. I'm not telling you our story to scare you, but to offer a caution, don't wait. There is no shame in asking for help. If one counselor doesn't make your child feel comfortable, get another and another if necessary. I'm praying that at this point, it's just talk, no action. I'm praying for you it's just a season, not a lifetime commitment. I'm praying. Please, don't be scared about where this walk will take you. Fear can/will paralyze you. Know that you can walk this walk, just don't stick your head in the sand thinking it will all go away. Get help. Now. Our daughter has the scars on her body to remind her daily of where she has been. I think of them as war wounds, I feel we were in a fight for our daughter's life. And for now, we've won. I'll just have to keep trusting God to continue to give us the victory.

 

Blessings.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug:

 

yes, take it seriously. take her to see someone. meanwhile, do the simple things you can do at home.....

 

eg. make sure there is a schedule, with regular meal times and bed times.

limit media time.

increase outdoor time.

 

spend at least 15 minutes a day one on one with her, doing what she would like to do. this is different from school time, etc. we do ours after dinner each night, one night with mom, the next with dad. we ask the kids what they'd like to do with their "date" time, and they choose. sometimes its chess, sometimes its cards, sometimes its a walk, whatever they want (but not watching or listening to anything; its connection time). after the first few days, they just started to talk to us differently in that time. its precious.

 

check out "learned optimism" by martin seligman.... or "the optimistic child: a proven program to safeguard children against depression and build lifelong resilience". he offers some very practical suggestions that work whether or not depression is the issue. one idea you could try right off the bat is to have a "thankfulness" journal. each night before bed, you have your child think of three things that have happened that day that they are thankful for. either you or she can write them in the journal. we do ours as a family at dinner, each person coming up with three things. it helps train our brain to focus on the good bits of life.....

 

we also find reading sweet read-alouds at breakfast sets a good connection and tone for the rest of the day. at her age, reading aloud anne of green gables or the little house on the prairie books (esp. the earlier series about laura's mom's or grandmother's childhood) worked really well for setting a lovely emotional tone.

 

we play lots of mozart when folks are feeling down. lots. "mozart with your morning coffee" is our morning math favourite.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[Rosy]

While I'm not against being evaluated by a professional, it sounds to me like she has a bad attitude toward schoolwork that has gone unchecked, and I wonder how much that plays into it. One of the challenge we as homeschoolers have to overcome is making what we do seem normal to our kids. When they have the "why should I have to do this?" attitude, it often comes from not knowing/seeing anyone who does what they are expected to do. I saw this very clearly with my son who is now in school--the same kid who fought me on everything except the most desirable of lessons accepts that when his teacher tells him to do something he needs to do it. He believes it to be a reasonable expectation because his peers are all doing it. My oldest daughter went through a period of frustration because her workload is so much more substantial than that of her siblings. We did a LOT of talking about what would be expected of her if she went to school, how much time it would take vs. how much time she spent, what I expected of her at their ages, etc.

 

If I was in your shoes, I would consider having her checked out by a professional, but I would also work on her attitude toward school. Our kids should be thanking us every day for sacrificing to give them the best possible education! With that, though, I would probably try to reevaluate my own goals for her--what are her interests? Are our curricula meeting our needs? Can we do certain subjects in a way that would be more enjoyable? What type of career am I preparing her for? Is she college-bound? By 11, she should have some say in what she learns and how she learns it. She should have at least a small sense of what her gifts are and what she wants to do with them.

 

Her attitude about school won't change whether she's on meds or not. Treat the depression if it's there, but also give her a sense of gratitude and purpose.

[Liz CA]

Some of it could be changing hormones already.

Perhaps ease up a bit on school. Decide what can be scaled back. Someone else here mentioned reading material. I have always been a voracious reader and it does affect me what type of book I read - at least for the duration of the book. If you think this could at all be an issue, I'd steer her toward upbeat material - I am still a fan of the old Trixie Belden books. :001_smile:

[Hope in God]

However, this just occurred to me, I did just read last night an article, in The Old Schoolhouse, by A.Pudewa (sp?) about how he inspired his 12 yo dd....he basically gave her more free reign over what she would study but enforced at least 4 hrs. of study a day and she kept a time time log that she would turn into him. She often would work till 9 or 10pm because she wasted so much time during the day. But that seemed to do the trick with her.

 

 

Andrew Pudewa is great! He helped me to relax a bit and it was better for my kids in the end. My daughter is a bit older than your daughter (grade 9 this year) but I will share what helped her. Since high school doesn't start until grade 10 in Canada I decided to let me daughter take control of her education this year. I read the book The Teenage Liberation Handbook and while I certainly don't believe the whole philosophy of the book I really gained some perspective. So, as I said, I let my daughter learn what she wanted this year. I didn't worry about learning outcomes or PLO's I just showed her what she had to do if she wanted to officially graduate and I left her to it. The book says that it takes a number of months for a child to decompress from all the educational expectations and find their own groove but my daughter was up and at 'em in less than a month.

 

She actually set far higher standards for herself than I would have set for her (and trust me, she is not a super go getter at the best of times). She finished her Sonlight Core H for history in less than 4 months she has just finished her second year of math and is beginning her third (we were behind in math) and she has learned at least 2 years worth in Language Arts. I am really amazed at the turnaround a little freedom has given.

 

You may want to let your daughter choose what she learns next school year. I didn't put any restrictions on her except that I said that she needs to choose a Math curriculum and an English curriculum. At the beginning it is hard to let them choose because they may test you, not being fully convinced that it IS actually up to them.

 

The other thing that I think is crucial would be to give your daughter a good quality fish oil. Nordic Naturals has a Children's DHA that comes in small round gel caps that they can chew. It is 100% cod liver oil. This is very important for hormone regulation. I would also give her a liquid vitamin D3 (just a few drops under the tongue daily). I think these two things will make a huge change.

 

Lastly, when it is hard for me to let go of my ideas for my daughter's life I just remind myself that I am raising a whole person, not a computer and that there are sure more imortant things in life than academics and learning outcomes set up by the government (I need to remind myself of this a lot). I would rather he grow up a loving, compassionate, kind person rather than a rocket scientist.

[Hope in God]

Oh, and I certainly would not have my child start any kind of medication until I had tried less invasive avenues. If it came down to meds I would have added St John's Wort to the Cod Liver Oil and Vitamin D3.

 

Google St. John's Wort. In clinical studies it out performed anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medications. Also the 5 and 10 year outcomes were much better with St. John's Wort than with pharma drugs. The only thing I am not sure about is the recommendation for children so if it comes to that you would have to check it out (though I don't think it will come to that).

 

My friend was going to visit the doctor to get anti-anxiety and anti-depression medications because she just wasn't holding it together and I asked her to try the Fish Oil, Vitamin D3 and St. John's Wort regimen for 2 months. This was a while ago and she says enthusiastically that she has never felt better. I asked her agin the other day and she still feels great.

[love2read]

Nothing that you wrote sounds like clinical depression to me, so I would not take her to a therapist at this point. She's right at the age of puberty and as a mother of a handful of daughters who went through this I can assure you that this can be a stage of hopelessness, boredom and irritation.

offered exceptional advice. While a therapist is necessary with clinical depression (google the symptoms just to double check) it can be counterproductive with a "normal" child for many reasons.

 

It's wonderful that she is so open with you, ask her what makes life worth living and if she says she doesn't know, throw out some ideas to keep the discussion going. The sleeplessness and feeling of despair is not uncommon. My last daughter just went through that for a few months. If you are seeing it over and over during the day, day in and day out, that's another story.

 

Give her something to look forward to. Is she on a sports team? There are activities in most towns even for the unathletic and often these are not well known (call your Y and Boys and Girls Club to get started.) One of my daughters was 15 pounds overweight and uncoordinated, but she still was accepted on a basketball team having never played before. It greatly changed her life. It's not to late to start dance lessons, piano lessons, karate, etc. Ask her to just "try" these things for six weeks if she's resistant. What about a non-credit cooking class through your community college? Crochet class at the yarn shop? Cake decorating? This age needs to be really active as that's how they often judge themselves.

 

Go for walks as a family to get her outside, give her VitD3. Exercise of any sort helps even the most severely depressed.

 

Carefully screen what she is watching on TV, what she is reading and if she has free access to the internet I would change that immediately. Screen her music too as so many of the lyrics are depressing. It may seem like it doesn't matter, but it does.

 

Don't let her listen into news shows right now, either. I had Rush on the other day and one of my younger kids brought up something he had said at the table later that night. While those things might be true, it scares young teens. Even the morning news shows are often depressing. They don't need to have those cares right now.

 

You have a lot of kids and I remember how hard it was when they were young to do something special with just one child, but all of your children will benefit from what you do and learn with this dd.

[Grace is Sufficient]

I have a daughter who has gone through something similar, but rather than tell our story, I'm just going to give you a few things I have gleaned from a long, hard journey.

 

1) A relationship with you is one of the more powerful tools at your disposal. It's important to put aside all the causes of contention -- school, chores, etc. -- and just take her out to lunch or out for dessert, and/or maybe buy her a little treat. This is probably one of the most helpful things I've done over the last few years, even though at times, especially in the beginning, I could hardly stand to be around her. Love her unconditionally, and make sure she knows it, even when she's being a total BRAT.

 

2) Her mental and emotional health is more important than her academics.

 

3) Medicine should probably not be the first choice, but sometimes counseling and medicine together can accomplish more than counseling alone. In most cases, medication can be temporary.

 

4) Finally, take what you hear here with lots of big grains of salt. Sometimes people jump on requests for advice like yours, and they're really just grinding their own axe. It can get very discouraging and confusing. Only you know your own daughter. We do not.

[Guest submarines]

I have a daughter who has gone through something similar, but rather than tell our story, I'm just going to give you a few things I have gleaned from a long, hard journey.

 

1) A relationship with you is one of the more powerful tools at your disposal. It's important to put aside all the causes of contention -- school, chores, etc. -- and just take her out to lunch or out for dessert, and/or maybe buy her a little treat. This is probably one of the most helpful things I've done over the last few years, even though at times, especially in the beginning, I could hardly stand to be around her. Love her unconditionally, and make sure she knows it, even when she's being a total BRAT.

 

2) Her mental and emotional health is more important than her academics.

 

3) Medicine should probably not be the first choice, but sometimes counseling and medicine together can accomplish more than counseling alone. In most cases, medication can be temporary.

 

4) Finally, take what you hear here with lots of big grains of salt. Sometimes people jump on requests for advice like yours, and they're really just grinding their own axe. It can get very discouraging and confusing. Only you know your own daughter. We do not.

 

Beautiful post. Number 1 and 2 are extremely important.

[i.love.lucy]

Been thinking about this thread all day. I agree with some of the previous posters that I think this is not so much a clinical depression issue as it is more of an emotional-hormonal-pushing-boundaries-trying-to-find-my-place-in-the-word thing. Haven't you ever felt like she does? No one understands me. No one really cares. I have no one to talk to that really gets it. I had those thoughts, and I'm not depressed at all. I can usually trace them back to being hormonal.

 

I have an 11 year old. They are unpredictable creatures to live with sometimes. Mine is prone to some drama, and when she is down she's really down. Like her dad. She's a perfectionist, so she has to do everything perfectly or it's not worth doing. And she's shy/introverted and can't stand any attention being called to herself, so she will not do sports or music or anything, really. I am struggling to help her find out who she is, what she is good at, and trying to affirm her. Finally I did sit down with her and identify a few things that she'd like to learn and possibly get good at. During this talk she did admit that it's hard being her because she wants to be this outgoing, sporty, talented, willing-to-try things person, but she isn't and can't make herself be. She sees her friends that way and was able to identify in each friend some kind of "thing" or talent that helps identify that friend. She wants that for herself, so I am going to help her find it.

 

And academics is not it. At 11 or 12 school is hard. You have to do a bunch of boring stuff you don't like. Your little brother plays with Legos and does maybe and hour or something of school a day. It's not fair!!! Look, I get it, and we do have to learn how to do the hard things. But I like the advice of letting her pick something she really wants to focus on. I am going to try that with my dd while making sure she understands that some subjects have to get done. Getting out of math is not an option. :tongue_smilie:

 

I also have made sure she does understand that the boundaries are for her good and that they are not optional. That's out of love and protection. That's it's okay to feel "not listened to" when wanting to argue about a boundary I've set and I won't discuss it. Some things are non-negotiable. But then I'm trying to find a way to allow some freedoms too. I won't let her wear certain things that are not appropriate or modest for her developing figure, but I said yes to a pink streak in her hair. I recently allowed slightly larger earrings. I have taken her to a teen consignment store to find clothes that are fashionable, but I have veto on appropriateness. (Can you tell a lot of our arguments are about clothes?)

 

:grouphug: This is a difficult path. If I were you I would try a combo of loving one-on-one time, affirming more of her interests and friendships, and some of the nutritional advice of fish oil and vit D, sleep/exercise/nutrition. If after a few months she still seems melancholy, then I would consider the doctor or therapist.

 

:grouphug:

[MomatHWTK]

What I learned with my oldest is that he had LDs. I didn't realize it, knew he was smart and expected him to get stuff done. He couldn't communicate why he couldn't get work done. He felt trapped and depressed.

 

Now, with my child, there are a whole lot of other things going on as well. But not being able to perform as expected and me not realizing that he really couldn't was a big part of his unhappiness. I still have to remember to back off on my expectations on a daily basis. It's hard when you know the stuff is in their brains to not expect them to show you.

[Dustybug]

While I would take it seriously, as I always take my kids seriously, I would not assume she needs medication or even a therapist right away based on this. If this is a consistent issue for her then definitely but not based on one bad day.

:iagree:

 

:iagree:

 

Tread lightly; by all means, don't imply that she should just "pull herself up by her own bootstraps." This could shut her down and cause her not to share with you the next time she feels discouraged, because she would feel that you don't understand her.

 

 

 

I definitely agree with this statement. I bottled EVERYTHING up inside when I was younger because my mother had this sort of mentality on top of an alcohol problem that made her completely self absorbed.

 

After DS was born, I dipped into a horrid bout with PPD. DH didn't understand and believed that I was just being dramatic. His attitude towards me when I had "one of my episodes" (as he called it then) made me tailspin even further down. As time has gone by, he is far FAR more understanding now and that helps tremendously.

[kolamum]

Without having read the entire thread, have you considered that your daughter might be nearing certain changes in her life? Could starting her on something like Vitamin B12 or St John's for pms help with her moodiness?

 

I think you need to find out why she feels it's not worth living, for sure! Let her know you are taking what she said very seriously. :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I've been thinking about this thread and the advice given, too--and I wanted to add that I'm not saying she HAS major/clinical depression, I am saying that you and those around you (including us on this thread) are not qualified to make that assumption, and you should get it checked out.

 

That's a big difference.

 

I hear a lot of us saying "It doesn't sound like it TO ME..." but I would not risk my kids' health by trying to diagnose what can BEST be diagnosed by a professional. I don't think anecdotal evidence/experiences are what you should use to determine what to do, although they can be helpful in other ways. After all, I wouldn't use someone's opinion or experience to diagnose a lump I feel in my breast--the experiences would be helpful, but I'd leave it up to an expert. I know we are not liking the whole experts thing, being homeschooling moms, but...

 

So, how are things going? :grouphug:

[angela in ohio]

Haven't read all of the other responses, but I thought I'd throw out one possibility...

 

Is she gifted? Gifted students are often unhappy with their school work because they are bored. They also think a lot about the meaning of life and big issues that other kids (and even adults) never think about, and that comment sounds like something a gifted young lady thinking about the purpose of her life would say. Unfortunately, because most people are so hostile toward advanced learners and the concept of giftedness, many students, especially gifted girls, suffer without help. :(

 

I also agree with a pp that she might just need things to look forward to and a purpose. That's about the age when my dds really took off in their own interests, and I started spending more time hauling them around to meet those needs. Also, if she likes spending time with others and that doesn't happen enough, she might just be lonely.