What do you believe happens after death?

[TheHomeScientist]

Cause only the good die young! (or something like that)

 

sorry, couldn't help it. My dh is a Billy Joel fan.

 

I remember when that track first hit the airwaves, some RC bishop or archbishop or another made a public statement that called for Joel to be excommunicated. That would have been entertaining to watch, since Joel isn't RC.

[Lady Florida.]

actually, they have biodegradable coffins now, so you could become part of the earth if you wanted!:D

 

Cool! I didn't know that.

[Laura Corin]

Cool! I didn't know that.

 

Were buried in wicker coffins, one in a woodland burial, one in a standard cemetery.

[J-rap]

I'm Christian and believe in an afterlife. I have no idea how it will all come together, but I believe there is one.

 

This.

 

Some Christians believe in the concept of universal salvation or universal reconciliation. That all will eventually be saved. Think about the parables of the 99 sheep, the lost silver, the prodigal son or the promise in Job, "the wicked cease from troubling and the weary are at rest." Not interested debating it, just putting out there that some Christians believe this.

 

From John 12

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.â€

 

I've just been hearing more about this lately. I think it's called "Evangelical Universalism." This is a website that tells more about it (I haven't gone through it all yet): http://godslovewins.com/

[ocelotmom]

I believe there is probably a part of us that goes on after death, leaning towards a belief in reincarnation. I accept the possibility that there isn't, and that all spiritual thinking is just a coping mechanism for dealing with the loss of life of ourselves and those important to us.

 

I believe that we cannot comprehend whatever the ultimate truth is, and that it's more important to live this life than to try to prepare for whatever comes after it.

 

I believe that it is all ultimately "ok" - that we do not need to fear eternal punishment.

 

I work in a nursing home, and tell this to any dead people I sense there, on the theory that if they're really hanging around, I'm probably at least somewhat accurate in my beliefs, and that if they aren't, it's of no consequence if I talk to empty air :)

 

I believe that the fiery flames of Hell are our own feelings of shame and hatred....that we cannot abide to be near Him in His perfection and that we choose to be away from Him.

 

While I'm not Christian, I agree with this.

 

Maybe I'm more upset by the fact that someone wouldn't like me as a person because I don't believe the same things in that realm. I mean could someone say "you are going to hell because of your beliefs" and "but I like you anyway" in the same conversation? It feels unlikely.

 

I know, I'm just too sensitive.

I'm the same way. I have a hard time trusting someone who has a sincere belief that I'm going to go to hell after death unless they're making a serious effort to save me. In that case, I'll probably find them annoying, but much more trustworthy :)

 

(This isn't to say I distrust Christians as a whole, just the ones who seem perfectly content to have those they claim to care about be eternally ****ed.)

Edited March 21, 2012 by ocelotmom

[jenangelcat]

We're all just a bunch of atoms so I guess we decay and our atoms eventually form into something else.

[Ruby Rose]

I have held the hand of my 11 yo cousin and my grandmother (who was my 2nd mother) as they died and I can tell you first hand that something very real happens when life leaves the body. It's like their soul, the thing that makes them who they are leaves the body and all that is left is a hollow shell. When my cousin was actively dying I saw (more like in my mind's eye) 2 angels flanking the head of his bed. When the nurses took out all the tubes and cleaned him up they told my uncle he was smiling! When my grandmother was dying she spoke about the little boy sitting at the foot of her bed. I believe it was my cousin. She loved and missed him so much. I believe those that pass on visit us from time to time especially when we need them.

 

I believe in God, Jesus, and heaven. How it all plays out in the afterlife I will have to wait and see. I've been thinking lately how vast the universe (the heavens) is. What if that really is heaven. The Bible says he has gone to prepare a place for us and the universe is ever expanding...what If.... something to think about.

[chepyl]

Maybe I'm more upset by the fact that someone wouldn't like me as a person because I don't believe the same things in that realm. I mean could someone say "you are going to hell because of your beliefs" and "but I like you anyway" in the same conversation? It feels unlikely.

 

I know, I'm just too sensitive.

 

I have very dear friends and family members who do not believe as I do. We still hang out and have a great time. One friend is a doctor who I would trust with the medical care of my famy over anyone else.

 

I believe that whine we die we leave our earthly bodies behind. We are forever joined with God or separated from him.

[Marylou]

Just wondering why out of all the recorded parables Jesus would explain the wheat and tares this way (below) if there is universal reconcilliation? Not wanting to debate; I just wonder why Jesus wouldn't say, "All roads lead to God (salvation)" instead of all the explanation of terms in the parable.

 

(from Wiki, so that I don't have to type it)

Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel weeds of the field." He answered them, "

He who sows the good seed

is the

Son of Man

, the

field

is the world; and the

good seed

, these are the children of the Kingdom; and the

darnel weeds

are the children of the evil one. The

enemy

who sowed them is the

devil

. The

harvest

is the

end of the age

, and the

reapers

are

angels

. As therefore the darnel weeds are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

—Matthew 13:36-43,

World English Bible

 

[FeFe]

I can understand that. I bet it feels a lot like how some christians are looked down upon and counted as "dumb" because we believe differently.

 

I'm not saying that to be snarky. I've just felt that feeling a lot lately. That feeling that I'm being pitied or condemned because of my faith. It stinks.

 

Maybe I'm more upset by the fact that someone wouldn't like me as a person because I don't believe the same things in that realm. I mean could someone say "you are going to hell because of your beliefs" and "but I like you anyway" in the same conversation? It feels unlikely.

 

I know, I'm just too sensitive.

[lynn]

I liked the way the movie "What Dreams May Come" presented the after life. Something like everyone creates their own heaven or hell if that is what they feel they deserve to dwell in. I like to believe that my loved ones are still around and at time feel their presence. There have been some unexplained things that have happened that I believe come from loved ones being around.

[Mrs Mungo]

Just wondering why out of all the recorded parables Jesus would explain the wheat and tares this way (below) if there is universal reconcilliation? Not wanting to debate; I just wonder why Jesus wouldn't say, "All roads lead to God (salvation)" instead of all the explanation of terms in the parable.

 

(from Wiki, so that I don't have to type it)

 

Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel weeds of the field." He answered them, "

He who sows the good seed

is the

Son of Man

, the

field

is the world; and the

good seed

, these are the children of the Kingdom; and the

darnel weeds

are the children of the evil one. The

enemy

who sowed them is the

devil

. The

harvest

is the

end of the age

, and the

reapers

are

angels

. As therefore the darnel weeds are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

 

—Matthew 13:36-43,

World English Bible

 

 

 

 

I'm not debating the point in this thread, or even claiming that is what I believe because the OP stated that she didn't want debate. I was merely pointing out that the belief stated as a universal Christian belief is not universal.

[momto2Cs]

Our bodies = biodegrade.

 

Our soul/life force = energy transformation.

 

I think this is what happens. I of course am not sure what the energy transformation will be like, but I believe it happens. When energy leaves something, it has to go somewhere!

[Ester Maria]

Maybe I'm more upset by the fact that someone wouldn't like me as a person because I don't believe the same things in that realm. I mean could someone say "you are going to hell because of your beliefs" and "but I like you anyway" in the same conversation? It feels unlikely.

 

I know, I'm just too sensitive.

:grouphug:

 

It is intellectual honesty, though. That is what they believe - it would be dishonest to pretend otherwise and to pretend that you are an exception, if their framework does not allow for it. I used to feel a bit awkward about it, too, but now I am cool with it. I only dislike that it is painful for THEM, if they love me, to live with a belief that I will descend into eternal fires or something like that. I think that must be terrifying, if somebody really loves you, yet truly believes you are doomed - I do not envy those people for sure.

[*********]

I think that those who believe that Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice for their sins against the holy God and call on his Christ's name will spend eternity in heaven. I believe that those who don't believe that Christ is their savior will spend eternity in hell, forever separated from God.

 

:iagree:

No, that's fair. When I hear someone believes certain people will go to hell it feels like I'm being sentenced/wished to hell. I realize that isn't quite it, but it FEELS that way. (Hell being a sort of punishment for not believing what some people believe.)

 

And in the past I've had people scream that in my face. I know, I should not equate that with every person who expresses that belief, but it's hard.

 

No true Christian wishes Hell on anyone. Jesus wants all people to call on Him and be saved. He does not want anyone to go to Hell. That's very simplistic, and I don't want to start a debate about who will/won't go to hell. But the Lord would that EVERYONE be saved.

 

Maybe I'm more upset by the fact that someone wouldn't like me as a person because I don't believe the same things in that realm. I mean could someone say "you are going to hell because of your beliefs" and "but I like you anyway" in the same conversation? It feels unlikely.

 

I know, I'm just too sensitive.

 

I like you Wendy. :001_smile: Even though we are oceans apart spiritually. I am and can be friends with those who do not hold the same beliefs that I do. It is, admitedly, a different sort of friendship than I have with my Christian sisters. But there are all sorts of types of relationships in this world.

[butterflymommy]

I've always had a strong intuitive belief in reincarnation. I don't necessarily think a soul is reborn intact, but maybe all souls (or certain types of soul) merge with a greater being (god?) and then are "recycled" back into incarnations. However if time is nonlinear then there might not be any "after death" and incarnations could be happening simultaneously in some timeless sense.

 

I wasn't raised in a faith with reincarnation, again it's just always been a strong intuitive sense, even when I was an atheist :).

 

An interesting aside, Judaism has a tenet of reincarnation-- this is evidenced even in the NT when Jesus' disciples ask if the man born blind had sinned or if his parents had sinned. Since a baby can't sin it had to have been a reference to a previous life.

[Ipsey]

I believe that everyone who doesn't believe my way will burn in horrible torment forever and ever and ever.

 

I believe I will be blessed and happy.

 

 

 

Actually, no :)

 

I think we all go to the same place. Unconsciousness and oblivion.

 

We will be similar as to how we were before we were born. We will not exist and we will not have any awareness of our non-existence.

 

When I left faith in Jesus and God I did fear death, but now I don't. I think it will be similar to what I knew/felt before I was born. Nothingness. And I won't grieve because I will not be aware of missing anything. :)

[Ipsey]

I always have to wonder, if you don't believe in hell, then why would you care? It seems like it would be equal to being told the fairies could take you away for this or that offense. Just wondering. :)

 

Sorry, the question was posed to someone else, but I wanted to give my thoughts.

 

I don't believe that women are inferior to men, but I get annoyed when other people do. If a strong majority of the people in the world felt that men were superior to women and had huge organizations all over the place to proclaim it loudly, I bet you'd get even more annoyed.

 

Let's face it, most people view hell as a punishment for being evil, however various theologies want to spin it. So, "you're going to hell" does tend to lend itself to the idea that "there is something wrong/evil with you". Whether I believe it or not, it still stings.

 

I'm sure there are racist/sexist whatever "-ist" beliefs about you that chafe, even if you know they're not true. Same here.

 

While most religions condemn people who are not of their faith, non-believers get to be condemned by _all_ religious people. (This is a generality, of course, so maybe it's understandable if one or two of us feel a little sensitive on the subject. Non-believers aren't interested in playing the "who-gets-****ed-game", but religious people are playing it for us, and choosing what position we have to play, to boot!)

[momtoamiracle]

I remember when that track first hit the airwaves, some RC bishop or archbishop or another made a public statement that called for Joel to be excommunicated. That would have been entertaining to watch, since Joel isn't RC.

 

 

oh my, that is hilarious!

[milovany]

I believe that everyone who doesn't believe my way will burn in horrible torment forever and ever and ever.

 

I believe I will be blessed and happy.

 

 

 

I don't see anyone mocking or belittling the beliefs of those who don't believe in heaven and hell; why do people feel the need to mock those that do? (It has happened more than once in this thread, so this is not just directed at you). This has happened more than once in a thread where the OP said she wanted to know what people believed so others are answering the question. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Peaceful Isle]

I think that those who believe that Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice for their sins against the holy God and call on his Christ's name will spend eternity in heaven. I believe that those who don't believe that Christ is their savior will spend eternity in hell, forever separated from God.

 

:iagree:This is what I believe.

 

BTW, This is a very interesting thread to read. It kinda helps us all get to know one another in a way. I'm glad that it hasn't turned ugly and we can all just share how we believe. I'm sure everyone has had bad experiences, with one person or another, in their life, with a different religion or belief.

:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

I always have to wonder, if you don't believe in hell, then why would you care? It seems like it would be equal to being told the fairies could take you away for this or that offense. Just wondering. :)

 

I always wondered this too.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I really have no idea what happens after death. I'm not worried about it, though, because I have no idea where I was before I was born, so I'm pretty sure I'll go back to wherever that was.

 

:iagree:

[MamaSheep]

The following two posts do a good job outlining what I believe about what happens after death, except that Patty Joanna's speculations actually are standard teaching of my church which I happen to agree with, rather than personal speculation. I would also add that I think the nature and abilities of a resurrected person are strongly influenced by the kind of person one becomes through what happens in this life and how one reacts to it, and it's not a one-size-fits-all kind of proposition.

 

Well, I say this from the perspective of someone who has buried a daughter and who believes in Christ. (I respect others' beliefs, but I'm answering openly and sincerely about what I believe. This topic is also serious enough and close enough to my heart that I do not want to be snarked at. ;) )

 

I believe that when we die our spirits are separated from our physical bodies. Our physical bodies biodegrade. Our spirits move into the spirit world where we wait until our time of judgment. (1 Peter 3:18-20) I believe that our spirit bodies have the same shape as our physical bodies did, and that we have the same personality and temperment.

 

I believe that our bodies (now perfected) and our spirits will be resurrected and brought together and that we will be brought before God for a final judgment. He loves us and is filled with mercy for us but he is also just. Our words, our thoughts, and our actions will be known to Him. We will know with a surety that He is real. Some of us may feel shame for how we conducted ourselves, others will see this as a wonderful day. (I also believe that no one, save Christ, lived perfectly...and that's why we have repentance.) I believe that Heavenly Father wants all of his children to return to Him and that Hell is a place reserved for those who cannot accept Him and His laws even when they see Him and know of Him.

 

I believe that the fiery flames of Hell are our own feelings of shame and hatred....that we cannot abide to be near Him in His perfection and that we choose to be away from Him.

 

"In Jesus Christ, ... who shall come with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end." and ..."I believe in the Resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

Speculatively, I believe that our souls and bodies separate at death and our spirits wait in paradise or hades for the final judgment. I don't know how to speculate on what happens here, even in my speculation. At the final judgment, we will have reunion of our souls and resurrected bodies, which is to come at the end of time, and the beginning of heaven and hell. Those who want the warm love Christ will come into His presence and those who do not, who find it distasteful, won't have to; Christ invites us to love Him--he doesn't make us, for how can love be forced?

 

The specifics are speculation, but the top line sentence is true. What I have said below that top line is not "standard teaching of my Church." It maps to the speculation of some in my Church. The top line is the teaching of the Orthodox Church.

[scooby-do]

If people think this life is all there is; then we all got ripped-off for sure. But, I don't believe that. God says, it's appointed unto man once to die; after than the judgement. What a glorious wonderful time those of us who believe will have for eternity in Heaven.

 

You just have to ask yourself; if you're willing to base what you believe on eternity. Eternity is a really long time; never ending. Eternity in heaven=wonderful; enternity in hell= not so wonderful.

[MamaSheep]

I've always had a strong intuitive belief in reincarnation. I don't necessarily think a soul is reborn intact, but maybe all souls (or certain types of soul) merge with a greater being (god?) and then are "recycled" back into incarnations. However if time is nonlinear then there might not be any "after death" and incarnations could be happening simultaneously in some timeless sense.

 

I wasn't raised in a faith with reincarnation, again it's just always been a strong intuitive sense, even when I was an atheist :).

 

An interesting aside, Judaism has a tenet of reincarnation-- this is evidenced even in the NT when Jesus' disciples ask if the man born blind had sinned or if his parents had sinned. Since a baby can't sin it had to have been a reference to a previous life.

 

Interesting. I believe in a life before birth (as an immortal spirit-being, not as a mortal human being) as well as a life after death, and have always read this passage in that light.

[Lady Florida.]

Thank you, Ipsey. I've been trying to figure out how to answer this (though it wasn't addressed to me, I still sometimes get irritated at the "You're going to hell" comments aimed at me), but couldn't come up with the right words. You explained it well.

 

 

Sorry, the question was posed to someone else, but I wanted to give my thoughts.

 

I don't believe that women are inferior to men, but I get annoyed when other people do. If a strong majority of the people in the world felt that men were superior to women and had huge organizations all over the place to proclaim it loudly, I bet you'd get even more annoyed.

 

Let's face it, most people view hell as a punishment for being evil, however various theologies want to spin it. So, "you're going to hell" does tend to lend itself to the idea that "there is something wrong/evil with you". Whether I believe it or not, it still stings.

 

I'm sure there are racist/sexist whatever "-ist" beliefs about you that chafe, even if you know they're not true. Same here.

 

While most religions condemn people who are not of their faith, non-believers get to be condemned by _all_ religious people. (This is a generality, of course, so maybe it's understandable if one or two of us feel a little sensitive on the subject. Non-believers aren't interested in playing the "who-gets-****ed-game", but religious people are playing it for us, and choosing what position we have to play, to boot!)

[Lady Florida.]

If people think this life is all there is; then we all got ripped-off for sure.

 

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean "we" got ripped off by the religious establishment telling us there's more? Or do you think this life is a rip-off? I'm sincerely asking.

 

You just have to ask yourself; if you're willing to base what you believe on eternity.

I am. I believe eternity won't matter to me because I won't exist, and I won't know I don't exist.

[Ipsey]

I don't see anyone mocking or belittling the beliefs of those who don't believe in heaven and hell; why do people feel the need to mock those that do? (It has happened more than once in this thread, so this is not just directed at you). This has happened more than once in a thread where the OP said she wanted to know what people believed so others are answering the question. :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

Hmm, I really didn't want to mock or belittle anyone, but I can certainly understand how it could be construed that way. For that, I apologize. I hoped I might be able to give a little perspective about how this looks to me.

 

I think religious people, who have an exclusive view of salvation, get used to "you think I'm going to hell, that's ok because I think you're going to hell."

 

It just. . . gets frustrating. The hell-believers can play it amongst themselves all they like, and they do, but us non-believers get it from all sides and we don't throw do the same because we don't believe it to begin with.

 

I was just hoping to give a little perspective. That's all.

 

I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings.

[scooby-do]

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean "we" got ripped off by the religious establishment telling us there's more? Or do you think this life is a rip-off? I'm sincerely asking.

 

I am. I believe eternity won't matter to me because I won't exist, and I won't know I don't exist.

 

 

To those who don't believe then this life has no comparison to anything else. If dead is dead then those who believe that will believe this life was wonderful. What do you work towards, goals, why work at all to be any better of a person than you are?

 

But for those who believe in Christ and his promises to us; then we know we are just passing through. So much suffering, pain, ugliness, hardship, death and saddnes on earth. HE says that we cannot imagine the glorious things he has planned for us. I think streets of gold are pretty cool.

 

But each person is accountable for themselves, no one can make you believe, but you will ; whether a believe or not stand before God one day and give an account of your life. I'm not telling you that; God says that.

[Andrew Kern]

I know there have been a couple times when a toe or two might have crossed a line, but I have to say I'm truly impressed by the respect I'm seeing in this incredibly delicate discussion. Talk about a way to challenge a friendship.

 

I grew up in a Christian family - fundamentalist in many ways, and believed quite firmly in the American version of heaven and hell, although hell was always a great deal more vivid than heaven.

 

I've been surprised over the years to learn how many different understandings orthodox Christianity has permitted through the centuries. At the root of my beliefs about the afterlife are a few convictions:

 

1. There is something "divine" about human beings (the Greeks called it a divine spark, the Hebrews the divine image). Too much can't be explained by material terms for me to be satisfied by the promise that it is only a matter of time before we figure it all out. And if I did accept that promise, what it leaves of the human becomes so minimal that I can't believe it's true.

 

2. The human soul yearns for a harmony that aligns it within itself and to the cosmos around it. It also yearns for a harmony with something beyond the cosmos, something non-material and inexplicable, without which it seems to be very unsatisfied. That yearning is so universal and so beyond the material that I cannot believe it is not valid. There is something there that we want and without which we seem unable to find that harmony.

 

3. The material world is good and beautiful and worth tending and living in harmony with. It gives all the evidence that it came from somewhere, though - that is to say, it is not self-sufficient. It needs both a source and a caretaker.

 

4. God is love, but he doesn't seem to regard suffering physically as the worst thing that can happen to a person.

 

5. The harmony in our souls, in our communities, in our world, and with our God is broken and the only thing that can be done about that is to try to reharmonize them.

 

6. The only way we can know about things we can't perceive ourselves is if somebody tells us about it.

 

For these reasons, and a few more, I believe that we have come from somewhere and are not pre-existent, but that we are made to live forever in a state where all of our powers are realized in that perfect harmony of the physical and the spiritual with all the "parts" and powers aligned toward a single end sufficient to hold the whole harmony together.

 

I find that I can't give up the belief that both the physical and the spiritual are of infinite value without the tapestry unravelling. So I believe both body and soul will be resurrected.

 

But once I've accepted all that stuff I find that the only tradition that holds it all together is the Christian doctrine of God becoming flesh to bring man into the Holy Trinity.

 

However, I'm not bound to accept any particular, local Christian doctrine that is just a moment in time. The church has always taught that there is a judgment and a heaven and hell, but what those are is beyond our capacity to grasp. Sometimes it seems like there's more of Virgil's Aeneid than of the New Testament in some western teachings on hell and the afterlife.

 

Somebody wrote above that hell is that sense of shame we feel in the presence of God. That makes sense to me. Heaven is the eternal echo of His well-done in the just soul.

 

Sorry to go on so long about this, but you got me thinking and I haven't put my thoughts on this topic into writing in a very long time.

[scooby-do]

God help me if I ever condemn anyone for not agreeing with me. We are told not to judge one another, and that is a serious command. Judging is not our job.

 

Sometimes this command not to judge is taken to mean that we can't use good sense about the world around us. But that cheapens the command, in a funny way. We are not to judge others (as in condemning them--and I even wonder about the opposite--putting them on pedestals too high for human life). We are to regard others more highly than ourselves, to see the image of God in each, repent of our own sins, and pray for everyone, those who love us and those who hate us. We are to live in humility and not in pride.

 

Before we partake of communion, we are called to repentance. We ask forgiveness of our own sins, and this is one sentence of those prayers: "I believe, O Lord, and I confess that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, Who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first."

 

I am so thankful that it is not my job to say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. It is my job to repent of my sins and to love God and my neighbor. That's more than I'll be able to do well in this lifetime, so I'd better get on with it, and leave it to others to do the same.

 

Wonderful post; I especially like the last paragraph.

[justamouse]

I align with Hans Von Balthazar which he writes about in the book 'Dare We Hope that All Men Be Saved, in that I hope that ALL men will be saved. We don't know, but we can hope. So I believe in a Heaven, and I hope that everyone will want to be there no matter what religion they're a part of. It also takes any opinion out of my hands, which is a nice place to be.

Edited March 21, 2012 by justamouse

[milovany]

Hmm, I really didn't want to mock or belittle anyone, but I can certainly understand how it could be construed that way. For that, I apologize. I hoped I might be able to give a little perspective about how this looks to me.

 

Thanks, I do appreciate that.

 

I think religious people, who have an exclusive view of salvation, get used to "you think I'm going to hell, that's ok because I think you're going to hell."

 

It just. . . gets frustrating. The hell-believers can play it amongst themselves all they like, and they do, but us non-believers get it from all sides and we don't throw do the same because we don't believe it to begin with.

 

I was just hoping to give a little perspective. That's all.

 

I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings.

 

It didn't hurt my feelings; it's just that many Christians who believe in heaven and hell don't play (think/believe) this way. Patty Joanna mentioned this: Whether or not someone is destined for hell is not mine to give attention to. I have puh-lenty in my life that could drag me to hell if I'm not diligent with repentance; I have no place or desire to decide where others are on their road to the end. To others, rather than a judge, I hope I would be a bastion of love (which is one of the areas I'm often at-work and repenting in, but I will press on all the same).

[ErinE]

For me, a belief in an omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient God precludes complete understanding. I am grateful for my life and the blessings I receive, but I do not dwell on comprehending the afterlife or a final judgement. Without going into nuances, I believe there is an ultimate truth that I, as a mortal, finite being, cannot understand.

 

I don't know what will happen after death. I hope I can stand in front of God and all the heavenly hosts and claim I lived my life to the utmost degree, filled with gratitude and joy for the gift I was given. If I'm wrong and it's nothing then it was fun while it lasted.

 

I also don't believe people will be judged by their intensity or lack of religious feeling. I believe God's love is ever-forgiving, seeking to welcome all those who, even at the end, turn to him.

[Heather in Neverland]

:grouphug:

 

It is intellectual honesty, though. That is what they believe - it would be dishonest to pretend otherwise and to pretend that you are an exception, if their framework does not allow for it. I used to feel a bit awkward about it, too, but now I am cool with it. I only dislike that it is painful for THEM, if they love me, to live with a belief that I will descend into eternal fires or something like that. I think that must be terrifying, if somebody really loves you, yet truly believes you are doomed - I do not envy those people for sure.

 

This.

 

Believe me, the comfort I have in knowing that I will spend eternity in Heaven only highlights the terror and despair I feel over how many of my friends and family will spend eternity in Hell.

 

There is no smug satisfaction to be found in that scenario.

 

Then, to believe this with all that I am, and yet be told that my efforts to warn them are _________________ (fill in the blank with any number of derogatory words). But if I don't warn them and still quietly hold to my beliefs then I am smug/happy they are going to Hell?

 

Christians get it from all sides as well. We are either weak, anti-intellectuals or we are self-righteous zealots.

 

 

 

.

[TheHomeScientist]

Christians get it from all sides as well. We are either weak, anti-intellectuals or we are self-righteous zealots.

 

I would say that's true only of biblical literalists, many of whom seem to consider themselves the only true Christians. Most Christian denominations and most Christians are neither anti-intellectual nor self-righteous zealots.

[Scarlett]

I always enjoy reading through these types of threads. Most of what people believe is what I am accustomed to hearing.

 

I believe that when we die we are dead...conscious of nothing. However, I also believe God has the ability to reinstate life to us. I believe we were created with a built in desire to keep living and I believe there will be a day when we no longer have to get sick and die.

 

I do not believe in a burning hell of torment.

[goldberry]

And some people, even those that believe in heaven and hell, make it a point not to be concerned with where someone stands with God unless invited to do so by that person. And even then, do so with great trepidation.

 

 

What a beautiful statement! That's why I think that even if you believe in an ultimate judgment that could be negative for some, you don't sit around and think about it in regards to particular people. You don't make that judgment. God does, and if you believe that God is just, you just trust that it will work out accordingly.

 

For me to look at someone and think, "I'm so sad that person will not be receiving the blessing" would be placing myself in a position to judge. That I somehow think I have enough information and can read heart conditions well enough to make that judgment. No thanks. Don't want that job, and am glad I don't have it.

 

My own personal beliefs - I do not believe in a literal hell, I believe dead is dead, and that hope for future life lies in a resurrection by God. I believe that I have to do what I believe God expects of me to attain that, according to the best understanding I have.

[SuperDad]

Our bodies biodegrade. Our souls? Well, me, I'm not sure. I don't believe in being "saved" (I don't mean that mockingly to anyone who does, though), I don't really get the whole reincarnation thing, and I don't love the abstract "your energy is passed on" theology. I'd rather focus on being a good, kind, loving person while on Earth. I figure that if I do that, everything else will fall into place.

 

 

I really have no idea what happens after death. I'm not worried about it, though, because I have no idea where I was before I was born, so I'm pretty sure I'll go back to wherever that was.

Maybe that. Again, I don't know.

[fractalgal]

What do you believe happens after death? Is there any sort of afterlife or just a big fat nothing? Or rebirth? Or what??

 

I'm truly curious and not interested in any kind of debate. I just want to know what people believe. :)

 

I don't know. :)

Edited March 22, 2012 by fractalgal

[DianeW88]

Because I just don't have time to type it all out, here's a link to what LDS people believe happens after death.

 

http://mormon.org/faq/life-after-death/

 

Feel free to ask questions if you have them.

[kalanamak]

I always have to wonder, if you don't believe in hell, then why would you care?

 

Because of the way it is said. One, it is a rather personal thing, and I don't want to hear it from a stranger (which I have been told in the park, by those who pick on sitting ducks (parents watching kids at the play ground)). Two, there tends to be a smug, scolding, or dramatically piteous presentation. I rarely feel any flair of anger with whatever the hoi polloi* says, but anyone who hits me with this in an effort to save me gets a *very* sharp "Leave Me Alone" (to which I've gotten the reply "See how afraid you are?" ... yes, afraid I might smack you if you keep this up.)

 

*I generally save my ire for those who influence policy, run important organizations, or yap on the TV or radio.

Edited March 23, 2012 by kalanamak
spelling

[Lady Florida.]

To those who don't believe then this life has no comparison to anything else. If dead is dead then those who believe that will believe this life was wonderful. What do you work towards, goals, why work at all to be any better of a person than you are?

 

But for those who believe in Christ and his promises to us; then we know we are just passing through. So much suffering, pain, ugliness, hardship, death and saddnes on earth. HE says that we cannot imagine the glorious things he has planned for us. I think streets of gold are pretty cool.

 

But each person is accountable for themselves, no one can make you believe, but you will ; whether a believe or not stand before God one day and give an account of your life. I'm not telling you that; God says that.

 

 

I still don't understand how, if there's no afterlife, that means we got ripped off. That's okay though - I don't need to understand it. I'm comfortable with the belief that this life is all we get, so we should make the best of it. I was just curious.

[Free]

I believe we biodegrade.

 

Yup!

[Heather in Neverland]

Most Christian denominations and most Christians are neither anti-intellectual nor self-righteous zealots.

 

As a Christian, I totally agree with this. ;)

[scrappyhappymama]

I grew up believing that when we die we go to Abraham's Bosom, also known as Hades or Paradise, and that other folks would go to a place of Torment across the divide (based on the Lazarus and rich man parable). And then at some point in the future, the world would end and the Judgement Day would happen and "sheep" would go to heaven and "goats" would go to hell.

 

Something about that scenario didn't ring completely true with me though, because if immediately after death we went to either Paradise or Torment, then what was the point of Judgement Day- hadn't we already been judged?

 

So now I believe that the Lazarus parable was illustrating what happened after death for those folks who lived prior to the death of Christ, before his blood was shed to effect reconciliation with God.

 

I think our very concepts of heaven and hell and a realm without time are all constructs to help us imagine a spiritual place within physical descriptors. So, based on my perception of eternity, I believe that when we die, for us it will be Judgement Day immediately and contemporaneously with all those we ever knew and who ever lived. Time has no meaning in the spiritual realm, so there is no "waiting around" for our loved ones to die and rejoin us. I believe that those who are found faithful will spend eternity with God and those who are not will be doomed to spend eternity outside the presence of God. No literal flames or torture, because our physical bodies will be no more, but that the descriptors of hell represent the spiritual anguish of a soul banned from the presence of God.

 

One factor I've never been able to satisfactorily reconcile in my mind is being completely joyful in heaven, while knowing that souls I love languish in hell. Will my memories of them be obliterated? Will I experience peaceful acceptance of their fates? Will we even know each other as the same personalities we have here on earth? All difficult and sometimes painful concepts to contemplate. Yet I do have faith, despite my inability to mentally scratch the surface of a purely spiritual existence.

[CLBMom]

I really have no idea what happens after death. I'm not worried about it, though, because I have no idea where I was before I was born, so I'm pretty sure I'll go back to wherever that was.

 

I myself am RC and truly believe what they teach, that we will come before our maker and be judged. After that I don't know........I've thought about reincarnation, especially when I go somewhere I know I've never been yet my soul recognizes it and feels at home. Or when I've met someone whom I have never met yet I already know them. This has only happened with 3 people in my life and all 3 brought up the idea to me that we had been "together" before. As far as before birth, I told my mother things as a very young child (2 years old) that there was just no way I could have possibly known. I don't remember those things now but my family sure remembers me saying them! My daughter has done the same thing for a period of about 6 months around the age of two she would talk about my grandmother that passed away 10 years before she was born. She said things she had no way of knowing and used words I'm pretty sure she shouldn't have understood. she is 8 now and still remembers the phrase she said the most often......So either there is life before birth or young children have a connection we don't.

[Onceuponatime]

I don't believe anyone really knows what happens after death. For me, I am not interested in eternal (conscious) life. I would like to think that the energy that is me is incorporated into the "whole" in someway so that my positive thoughts and actions have an eternal positive affect on what exists after me. Of course the same would happen with the negative energy I produce, so that motivates me to think about what I do.

[ocelotmom]

If people think this life is all there is; then we all got ripped-off for sure. But, I don't believe that. God says, it's appointed unto man once to die; after than the judgement. What a glorious wonderful time those of us who believe will have for eternity in Heaven.

 

You just have to ask yourself; if you're willing to base what you believe on eternity. Eternity is a really long time; never ending. Eternity in heaven=wonderful; enternity in hell= not so wonderful.

 

This is Pascal's Wager. It assumes that there are two possible choices - a given view of Christianity (because there are obviously a broad range of beliefs about what the afterlife involves) or nothing. Obviously, if these are the only two possible choices, it makes sense to make every effort to be as good a Christian as one possibly can.

 

But whose to say that these are the only two choices? And who is to say that following a particular brand of Christianity might not be harmful in some way? For example, if you're a Christian and truly happy in that (as many of you are), then that's a good life if there ends up being nothing coming after. But if you're absolutely miserable attempting to adhere to a particular brand of Christianity that you believe is the only option for eternal happiness, and it turns out there is nothing after death, was that a good use of your life? What if it turns out that something else is the ultimate truth, and your interpretation of Christianity condemns you eternally, or at least inhibits your spiritual progress?

 

There is no "safe" choice.

 

To those who don't believe then this life has no comparison to anything else. If dead is dead then those who believe that will believe this life was wonderful. What do you work towards, goals, why work at all to be any better of a person than you are?

Because being a better person increases both my happiness and the happiness of others, and, if this life is all there is, it's an even greater tragedy to have a horrible life. Whereas in Christianity they at least stand a chance of getting eternal happiness in the afterlife.

 

This question comes awfully close to the "I'm scared of atheists because the only reason I don't go on murderous pillages myself is because God says not to and I fear eternal punishment" brand of Christianity that really scares me - people who can't see how someone could possibly have a conscience or goodwill towards others without externally imposed rules with serious consequences.

 

I'm not meaning to pick on Christianity here. Reincarnation tends to have similar issues - if this current life sucks, then it's karma for bad behavior in a previous life, or it'll get better as their soul evolves, or whatever.

Edited March 22, 2012 by ocelotmom