Mommyfaithe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Does your dh think homeschooling...just sort of happens....you know, it doesn't take time, or planning or oversight? After almost 20 years...you would think my dh would understand the time commitment....however.....:glare: Does your dh get that when you are researching materials for your kids, or planning, or filing....that maybe you need some TIME and some QUIET. Does he get that YOU have to be physically there TO homeschool your kids? And not to be sexist....you dads who homeschool....do your wives " get it?" Just wondering......and if they do " get it". How on earth did they??? Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just wondering......and if they do " get it". How on earth did they??? Faithe My dh "gets it", but I couldn't say why. Maybe it is because I was a ps teacher before we had kids. He knows that teaching takes planning. He also hears me stress out when we have so many doctor appointments that school begins to suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everHis Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My dh hears me 'say' it but still doesn't 'get' it. He says, plan some time, take off to go plan. . . but then doesn't get that that requires HIM to be home with the kids so I can go. :glare: Or if I plan a day or two away. . . "Wow, we should make this a little mini family vacation, we'll come too." Purpose totally defeated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpskowski Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nope. According to him, I am home ALL day, why would I need the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, I get it probably because I still do most of the planning and researching even though dh actually does most of the teaching. I also teach the kids as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, I don't think he really gets it. But to be fair, I don't get his job, either. I have no idea of all the complexities of what he does to earn our income, and he has no idea of all the complexities of what I do to educate the children. And frankly, I'm cool with that. :D I mean, dh talks to me about his work, and I *try* to keep my eyes from glazing over, LOL. He does the same when I talk about curriculum. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, I don't think he does get it. Just like he doesn't get that someone has to deal with the socks that get put in the laundry basket, or spend an hour or more getting the evening meal on the table. Recently DH told me he'd been talking to someone at work about us homeschooling. This person made the observation that homeschooling was more efficient than a B&M school, the same could be learned at home in a couple of hours as took all day at school. DH then looked at me suspiciously, and wanted to know why in that case did it take us all day. He really hadn't thought that although DS4 only does an hour of school a day, DS7 2 or 3 hours and DS10 4 or 5 hours, that meant around 6 hours of my time giving each one individual attention, plus, of course, I also do lunch and clean, as I don't have a cafeteria here or a cleaning lady. Once I'd pointed it out he saw the sense in what I was saying, but had just never really thought it through before. At least now he understands why I'm constantly worn out. It's hard being a homeschool mom. It's wonderful and amazing too, though. Best wishes Cassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, for some reason, he doesn't get that I need to plan and look up stuff on the computer. But, he also doesn't get that when i'm in the middle of teaching math, that I need him to NOT interrupt me to tell me something about his video game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It was only after 10 years of HSing that my husband said-- "You know, trying to educate all these children and run a household is a lot for one person to do without any help." He said that to me in january. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 DH "gets it" most of the time. He is well versed in jobs where a good deal of the work happens off stage and if the unseen work doesn't happen the seen work will not be of quality. It also helps that in my life before kids DH would come and sit with me while I prepped student work for the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, mine gets it. We had a friend that started homeschooling the year before we did. After the first year of homeschooling (notice I said after), he confided in me that he was concerned I wouldn't take homeschooling seriously, and only wanted to do so to goof off with my friend. He is the first to congratulate me on taking it so seriously. He also would yank the moon down for ds, and only wants him to have more opportunities than we did. I equate it to running a business, which is how dh can relate. There's a lot that happens while the door are open, but just as much happens when the "client" is not there. I'll admit he doesn't totally get why I'm researching and planning for fall right now, and he doesn't understand why I make ds do work in the summer. All I have to say now is "You do want him to be smarter than us, right?" and he gets it. I have an orientation before school each year. It's just as much for dh as it is for ds. I lay out the books for the year, I explain our goals, blah, blah. I piece together materials for many of our subjects and I show him that. It is kind of a "see, this is what I've been planning for the last umpteen months!" I do think he sometimes thinks I just buy stuff that is ready to go. He's always impressed, or at least acts that way for my benefit. We have other issues, but homeschooling he gets. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My DH, bless his heart, doesn't "get it" at all. I once - in the heat of a "discussion" - threatened to rent an office space and take the kids there every day to school. I figured then he might "get it". But - to be honest and fair, I have never understood 1/10 of his job and believe that he probably deserves more credit from me as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It was only after 10 years of HSing that my husband said-- "You know, trying to educate all these children and run a household is a lot for one person to do without any help." He said that to me in january. :blink: My dh just got it too! I have no idea what flipped the switch for him. Maybe it's because I'm now teaching high school for ds and that kind of work makes more sense to him than the more project oriented work of elementary school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My dh actually DOES understand that part of it. What he doesn't understand is that, when math (or something) doesn't work for the kids, one must make a change in the game and try something new. That is part of the joy of homeschooling your kids. Of course, dh went to ps, so he thinks you should pick a curriculum and then stick with it for LIFE. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My dh just got it too! I have no idea what flipped the switch for him. Maybe it's because I'm now teaching high school for ds and that kind of work makes more sense to him than the more project oriented work of elementary school. Oh how I long for that day..... :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Dh was brought up short one day and hasn't made the mistake of thinking I do nothing all day again. It wasn't pretty, nor am I proud of it. But it had to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My dh "gets it", but I couldn't say why. Maybe it is because I was a ps teacher before we had kids. He knows that teaching takes planning... Same here. My wonderful dh used to help me grade papers when I taught in PS. When he helped me, I got finished earlier, and we had more time together. We began planning to homeschool way back when our oldest was a baby, and he has been supportive--no, enthusiastic is a better word--about it all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Dh was brought up short one day and hasn't made the mistake of thinking I do nothing all day again. It wasn't pretty, nor am I proud of it. But it had to happen. Oh to be a fly on your wall. OP, yes, he does. Our children are high maintenance so when he watches them, he says, "No wonder you're nuts when I get home." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, I don't think he really gets it. But to be fair, I don't get his job, either. I have no idea of all the complexities of what he does to earn our income, and he has no idea of all the complexities of what I do to educate the children. And frankly, I'm cool with that. :D I mean, dh talks to me about his work, and I *try* to keep my eyes from glazing over, LOL. He does the same when I talk about curriculum. :tongue_smilie: :iagree: This is what happens here. He *does* understand how difficult our children can be (we have the high-maintenance kind as well), and so he has some idea of the struggles that I go through, but he doesn't understand the obsession with finding the right curriculum and the frustration of a really bad school day. But like Bethany said, I don't get his job, either. I don't understand how computers and servers and phone systems work and will never understand why they're so fascinating to him, so I can't expect him to really care about the curriculum conundrums :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 :iagree: This is what happens here. He *does* understand how difficult our children can be (we have the high-maintenance kind as well), and so he has some idea of the struggles that I go through, but he doesn't understand the obsession with finding the right curriculum and the frustration of a really bad school day. But like Bethany said, I don't get his job, either. I don't understand how computers and servers and phone systems work and will never understand why they're so fascinating to him, so I can't expect him to really care about the curriculum conundrums :) :iagree: Down to the high-maintenance children and computer systems. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 DH is a teacher. He gets it and sympathizes with how much work it is, in addition to the fact that I never get away from my job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the evolving homemaker Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nope. According to him, I am home ALL day, why would I need the time. :iagree: I think that is how mine feels. I am home all day, I must have ample time on my hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garddwr Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 He also believes that clean socks and hot meals magically appear... Yep, it's the same around here. Laundry is the one household maintenance task my husband helps with, but he honestly believes that by doing one load a week he is doing the majority of the laundry. And he is utterly clueless about the time it takes to plan, prepare, and clean up from 3 meals a day. He also thinks that grocery shopping is a fun hobby for me:lol: I have a plot to help him understand at least some of the time commitment of homeschooling, though: he works a schedule that gives him every other Friday off. In the past we have just made that a day off from school for family activities. I've started holding morning school on those days, though, and inviting him to participate. I realized recently that school is another of those things that he thinks just magically happens with no real work required. To be fair, though, I think it's kind of the way we all think about things that run behind the scenes. I honestly have very little knowledge about what goes into maintaining gas, power, and water supplies for our home, maintaining roads, handling waste and sewage disposal, etc. They're not my job, but I rely on them getting done. There would be a problem though if I refused to pay utilities bills or taxes because I didn't think they were needed--and this is where spouses need to have some understanding because we need support for the work we do too! (And sometimes more help than we are getting.) --Sarah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 He gets is but sometimes doesn't. He understands not to call before 1:00 in the afternoon because I'm busy. (All of my friends know not to call as well). However, if I need something from 'the city' (about an hour away), he doesn't understand why i don't want to throw our daughter in the car and go get it. For me, one messed up day throws off my whole week. I don't want to waste a day of no schooling just to run an errand that he could easily do (he works in the city). The first few weeks were hard and took a while to get used to. He has started helping out with a bit of cleaning. He also said :) that he knows it was the right thing and that he can tell the difference in our daughter. It's absolutely huge (health issues that have resolved). And she's getting more confident in learning things. It's amazing what has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My husband grew up in a homeschooling family of seven. When their mom got sick, school for crazy...he understands what it takes. He has even helped some. But, we also share household chores and cooking. Last night, I came home to a beautifully cleaned bathroom! For pregnant me not to have to scrub the toilet on my hands and knees was wonderful! He does glaze over when I ask him about curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Husband had a very good appreciation of all I did to accomplish home education. He's imaginative: I think he could imagine how hard he himself would find it. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, I get it probably because I still do most of the planning and researching even though dh actually does most of the teaching. I also teach the kids as well. :iagree: It's a group effort in our house. I'm not sure he understands how much effort goes into planning but, he definitely understands the time required to teach and care for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 my dh was off for a few days due to foot surgery. If he had any doubts, they are gone now. He taught my oldest her algebra yesterday. Complete with drama, tears and whining. He understands now why I am so utterly exhausted after dealing with her. Some kids just suck you dry and he realizes that. He knows that it takes time, planning, effort and plain old hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom'sGirl Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 DH was homeschooled high school with ACE. (not thinking that took a whole lot of planning) I think he appreciates all the work I put into it, but sometimes I get the feeling from other family members that I am a bit obsessive about it. (which I kinda am) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 These posts are great. I DO understand what my dh does all day....I run his business...and take care of the kids, homeschooling, house...etc. He has recently been swapping out the evening meal with me....but he still doesn't get WHY my work is never, ever done..... Kids help with chores, dh does his own laundry etc.....so, I am not looking for more help from them.... He also thinks gravy just happens....and houses are never dusty.....and toilets just stay clean...... Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupOCoffee Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, for some reason, he doesn't get that I need to plan and look up stuff on the computer. But, he also doesn't get that when i'm in the middle of teaching math, that I need him to NOT interrupt me to tell me something about his video game. OK, I am not finished reading all the replies yet, but this just made me LOL, right here at my desk... I do think that my DH gets what goes into this adventure, but not 100%...even though since the beginning HE has been the one at home... The interrupting to tell about a video game just really got me; I may expand on my post later, idk. Our situation is most assuredly unique among HSers :tongue_smilie: ~coffee~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No. My dh doesn't "get" anything about homeschooling or domestic life. He has no conception of the amount of energy it requires to keep juggling all the balls in the air without letting one crash to the ground. I've posted before about my dh's lack of experience in doing anything for himself, which I blame entirely on MIL, who doesn't do a thing for herself, either. Before I married dh, he lived in a condo, ate out for almost every meal, hired people to do any work at the condo, had a cleaning lady who did his laundry and even ran the dishwasher once a week for the few dishes he used at home, had someone else do his taxes, had someone else work on his car, etc. ad infinitum. He still doesn't do much, but I've assigned him some chores around here and he does them grudgingly and poorly, but he at least does them. Even at work, he spends most of his time on the phone with clients, other attorneys, and doctors. He also attends hearings, but the actual "work" is done by the secretaries- scheduling, writing letters, sorting the mail, etc. I'm not saying that what he does isn't work, but he just has no clue how long it takes to actually do anything. He cannot comprehend the swirl of activity that is going on in my brain at all times. He has no idea of what it takes to get the laundry done, dinner cooked and two kids through school in a day- and that's a light day. I sometimes feel bitter and resentful of his ignorance of my stress, but I knew this about him before I married him, and I chose him anyway. :tongue_smilie: It does irk me when he makes a comment about something that he has no business commenting on- like school, or dinner, since he puts no effort at all into the actual business of school or dinner! But, the good outweighs the bad, so I try to remember that when I'm feeling overworked and under appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Dh was brought up short one day and hasn't made the mistake of thinking I do nothing all day again. It wasn't pretty, nor am I proud of it. But it had to happen. :lol::lol: You should so move next door. He doesn't get it, but he appreciates it and he doesn't take it for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpskowski Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ah yes, I do all the billing, invoicing and taxes for my husband's business. He made dinner once about 12 years ago, pre-children. And he claims he wanted to be a chef. :001_huh: But he is very enthusiastic and supportive of HS. He knows he was short shifted in his education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I recently had a really bad sinus infection (just got a relapse, too..), and DH decided to homeschool because they were going to miss too many days in a row. It did not take him long to realize it's a lot harder than it looks to teach. He thought I opened the book, read to the kids, and they understood and did the work like mindless little drones. :lol: Now when he's home I don't have to cook lunch or dinner. He's only here half the month, but wow at the difference not having to deal with the kitchen 2 meals a day. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Before I married dh, he lived in a condo, ate out for almost every meal, hired people to do any work at the condo, had a cleaning lady who did his laundry and even ran the dishwasher once a week for the few dishes he used at home, had someone else do his taxes, had someone else work on his car, etc. ad infinitum. He still doesn't do much, but I've assigned him some chores around here and he does them grudgingly and poorly, but he at least does them. Even at work, he spends most of his time on the phone with clients, other attorneys, and doctors. He also attends hearings, but the actual "work" is done by the secretaries- scheduling, writing letters, sorting the mail, etc. I'm not saying that what he does isn't work, but he just has no clue how long it takes to actually do anything. This sounds just exactly like my DH! Maybe we should start a support group :D. I must say, DH has a heart of pure gold - he's just clueless :tongue_smilie:. Best wishes Cassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, my husband gets it because he does it with me. If either of us was on our own with it, we would lose it. I would not have married a man that was not a full partner in household and child raising activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 He's not interested in curricula, but he does understand that it takes time and that parenting our children takes time. He is thrilled when I get one room cleaned up in the course of an entire day. He cleans on Saturdays. He also does math and science experiments with the girls sometimes (he is almost never home with work and school, so it's not often, but sometimes). He thinks I'm a saint for staying with them all. day. long. alone, and tries to make sure I get out to knitting night alone once a week for my sanity. He also understands now (after the nightmare of trying school for a while this year) why I HS and doesn't criticize it or push PS at all anymore. And he's all mine. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elinnea Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well, when I say that I'd like some time off he says I can get that in the evenings after the kids are in bed or later after they are all grown up. When I say that I need more help around the house he says the kids should pitch in more. He also has made the comment that I am at home so I must have tons of time. So, no, I don't really thinks he gets it. Unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My dh gets it. He knows I work hard at home with the kids, as well as the kids that go to school. He doesn't get the details of hsing, but that is okay. When I try to share he smiles and nods while his eyes get glassy. LOL It's better than having a dh that tries to micromanage the hs. Can you imagine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My dh "gets" it but he does forget. He works 2 jobs out of 3 offices. We are also re-building. He juggles a lot. He appreciates, loves and respects what I do but it is not infrequent for him to "assign" jobs as he is walking to his car (sometimes these are huge projects from the re-build list). He's fine if we don't get to it but some days it about puts me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yep, it's the same around here. Laundry is the one household maintenance task my husband helps with We hang all our clothes. We have no draw space. For some reason my husband just doesn't understand that it's not helping to fold all the clothes. We have gone over it again and again, and his idea of doing laundry is folding all the clothes and leaving them piled up in the basement. :glare: He also counts all time spent folding clothes as work time. :confused: Other than some things like that, my dh understands, is helpful, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Does he understand??? :001_huh: :lol::lol::lol: He thinks HS planning = playtime. He doesn't understand that I can be fulfilled in my work (and truly LOVE HSing) and still call it "work" and need a break...or atleast space and time to accomplish the task before bedtime. (I don't stay up late b/c I simply enjoy filling folders for the week, or making handwriting sheets, or printing off booklists and checking off the books we already own so I don't buy multiple copies. He doesn't get that THIS is notsofun for me, and it's vital work to be done so we can learn during the school day.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Dh was brought up short one day and hasn't made the mistake of thinking I do nothing all day again. It wasn't pretty, nor am I proud of it. But it had to happen. A similar thing happened recently. He said it doesn't seem like I'm putting for any effort at cleaning. I know I'm not doing as good a job as I could, I know I could do better. But he got a very serious threat that if he wanted to see what no effort at all looked like, I would be more than happy to show him and he would be responsible for setting it right again. We had a nice discussion and all is right again. I know I couldn't handle his job, but I don't think he understands as much that he couldn't handle mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm very blessed to have a dh who definitely gets it. We're not always perfect, but he never devalues the work I do for the kids or assumes that it's just a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in MA Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'll tell you when my dh really got it: when I got called for jury duty in the first few weeks of school and ended up having to stay for the whole week. He took time off work and ran school for a week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This sounds just exactly like my DH! Maybe we should start a support group :D. I must say, DH has a heart of pure gold - he's just clueless :tongue_smilie:. Best wishes Cassy Same with mine- sweet and generous, but clueless as all get out! :lol: A support group would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, my husband gets it because he does it with me. If either of us was on our own with it, we would lose it. I would not have married a man that was not a full partner in household and child raising activities. :iagree: We've got household tasks divided. I do laundry and bills; he does grocery shopping and cooking meals when he's home. I do still think pretty constantly about what I'm doing for homeschool... but I'd be doing that for any job. My husband does see homeschooling as my job and he appreciates me for it. We've got a good partnership - and I also know I'm lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessReplanted Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 My husband would say that he 'gets it', but he really doesn't. :glare: If he's home during the day, he thinks I should be able to stop whatever I'm doing and sit down and talk with him. And, if he comes home just as we're ending our school day he wonders what is wrong with me. :001_huh: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Oh my husband gets it. Maybe he just gets an earful from me about what I'm doing with my day, but he gets it. :) One time I was at Walmart during a week day when my husband was home for some reason. He called me up while I was in line about Younger Daughter's WWE assignment. Now everyone here knows how scripted and user friendly WWE is right? Apparently not. She had the correct worksheet, all he had to do was read the story to her, ask her the questions and basically hold her hand to get a couple sentences written down. The amount of explanation required on my part over the phone was alarming. Partly because my husband, being the intelligent and theoretical person that he is, needed to know WHY he was doing every single thing that he was doing. "Because the teacher book SAID SO!" wasn't going to cut it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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