Blue collar-background folks: Struggling to homeschool teens

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm hitting a weird spot on the road. I'm having a hard time homeschooling my teen boys right now because it feels like coddling them, or spoiling them.

 

When my brothers and I were these ages we were working (sometimes legally, sometimes not) and helping to pay the family's bills. We each carried a bill. This wasn't my mother's ideal, and my Dad didn't even know we were paying the bills, but this was our life.

 

I left home for good when I was barely 17. By the time I was 17.5 years old I had an apartment, a car, a job, and was enrolled in a vocational school.

 

My sons get carted hither and yon, all our time, energy, and money go toward them...they continue to be a drain on family resources past the age where my siblings and I, and DH and his siblings, were all turning to help the family. DH and I are feeling spread very thin right now.

 

There comes a point when a teen's cooking one night a week, pitching in with housework, and tidying up after oneself doesn't feel like contributing anymore, because the 7yo also does some of that level of work.

 

Before the recession really and truly walloped us we were able to overcome these issues on a psychological level. We were able to just be glad we could provide for the boys, and rested in the knowledge that a better high school education at home would help them be higher earners and more successful citizens than we've been able to be.

 

That's not true anymore. There are no guarantees that studying Latin and Calculus in high school will get them into college. No guarantees that college success will lead to a job. We get the feeling that these boys are going to have a tough row to hoe no matter how they spend the next few years. It seems they should be getting the hard lessons now to prepare them for survival as young adults.

 

But they can't even get jobs. In our area the teens are in a definite depression, losing job opportunities to adults who need the jobs more. College-educated people are working the fast food drive-thru.

 

So we keep spending thousands a year (plus my lost income) to homeschool these great hulking boys who are doing nothing to help DH support the family. This isn't how I was raised, and to be perfectly honest some days it is very hard to carry on.

 

I think I'm on a few people's bad lists lately, but I hope I won't be bashed to pieces. I see it as my duty to homeschool my sons if there are no better opportunities for them, and there aren't, so I'll keep going.

 

I just wondered if there were any others struggling to pretend they are middle-class Ivy League types raising children of privilege when they are really just one step from poverty and wishing their boys could go to work.

[scrappyhappymama]

I'm not in your situation yet, but I think you bring up some very valid points. Since your boys getting jobs in this economy doesn't seem feasible, have you considered alternatives that could help instill that work ethic anyway?

 

Perhaps have them each choose a volunteer job to perform a few days a week. They could rake leaves or shove snow for an infirm neighbor, or volunteer at the hospital or goodwill or a retirement home. This could get them some work experience, and help them learn outside responsibility, and could also be a beneficial activity for college and scholarship applications. Another option would be looking for internship type opportunities in a field of interest. If one is interested in mechanical work, maybe have them work a few days a week with a relative or a friend, learning some of the basics in the field. Or if they aspire to an office job, see if a friend could let them come in and file papers, or do other small, helpful tasks a few hours a week.

 

Another possibility would be getting them more involved in tasks around your home. Do they all know how to change tires, check oil and air pressure, change the oil, change brakes, etc? Perhaps they could plan, plant, cultivate and harvest a garden and then spend a few weekends selling at a farmer's market. Or if they are more interested in woodworking or construction, encourage that instead.

 

Obviously I am just brainstorming here, and don't know the particular interests and abilities of your children, but I think it could be adapted to whatever they are interested in. It won't contribute to your household finances in the direct way you did growing up, but if they can change the brakes for you, instead of having to take it in, you save money there. If they grow a garden, you save on buying produce, etc.

[Lisa R.]

OP, I think you're being a bit hard on yourself. Yes, you lived on your own at 17 years old, but that is really not ideal for the vast majority of teens. Most would not have been nearly as responsible as you seemed to have been. I'm sure you're grateful that there isn't a need to have each of your children responsible for monthly bills as you and your siblings were. Yes, it taught you responsibility, but we should be grateful that we are not in that position.

 

I would encourage you to help your kids find jobs so they can help pay for some of their clothes, entertainment expenses, presents for family members, etc. I realize that jobs for teens are hard to find, but it is not impossible. I'd try and network wherever you and your dh can. Have dh spread the word at work that you have two capable sons who are willing to work. Maybe they could start a job on their own by putting out fliers for lawn work, snow shoveling, painting, or whatever. Despite what we hear in the news about economic hardships, upper middle class and upper class folks still have more money than time. I'd target these neighborhoods, and it's likely they'll find work.

 

Also, please don't get disheartened about college. It's not that hard to get accepted into college--assuming they're not trying to get into top-tier schools. When I see some of the kids that are peers of my college-aged kids, well, trust me, you don't have much to worry about. Community colleges are cheap. Our community college just requires an entrance exam. We don't want to close doors for our kids. There is no easier time to go to college than when you're young.

 

Bottom line: Keep the teens busy. Enroll teens aged 16 and up in a community college class or two. Encourage, or rather, insist that they try and find jobs. This may require that they think outside the box in order to find one. Great learning experiences can come from this.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I just wondered if there were any others struggling to pretend they are middle-class Ivy League types raising children of privilege when they are really just one step from poverty and wishing their boys could go to work.

 

I will be there in five years, no doubt, if nothing major changes. Only not so much pretending we're raising kids of privilege.

 

I suppose I will insist that my sons work our garden, put food up, maintain our bikes (our only vehicles - we're city dwellers) and mend clothing. If it means I can take a couple of extra hours of work each day, I would have no qualms with requiring my teens to do all of the cooking and housekeeping.

 

But they are already arguing with me about wanting to be English majors. (Over my dead body, I told them, unless they get full scholarships.) I can see how it is only going to get harder. I don't want to sacrifice their only opportunity to explore who they are. I will absolutely not sacrifice their ability to get secure jobs later. Hopefully a balance can be found.

Edited January 26, 2012 by dragons in the flower bed

[Guest]

I understand your post well, though we are not in too poor a situation ourselves now. But as far as coming from a poorer background and having a strong impetus to work from a young age - yes, dh and I both had that. Honestly, your post factors in to why I am glad my dd (14) is in school now, though I am fortunate in that I am sending her to the school I desire. (Even our public school would not be a terrible choice, so it is easier to accept sending the kids to school when that choice is not a terrible school.)

 

One thing that stands out to me from your post is that your sons "can't work." Maybe it's just my entrepreneurial ideals, but I would question whether that is so or not. Horrible job market notwithstanding, there are still ways to earn for those with initiative. Is there not a thing they could do in the way of an internet business, a home-delivery service, yard work, farmwork, pet care, driving services, bus-washing or whatever that could be good character-building hard work?

 

My MIL claims that she had a dairy cow when her kids were teens because it "built character" for them to milk the cow and other tasks, at an unpleasant, cold and smelly 5:00am before school. (Dh says that built his hatred for farm animals, but I digress. :tongue_smilie:) Obviously, not everyone can get a cow to teach character, but I think my MIL's head was certainly in the right direction. All of her children grew up to be diligent workers and all are somewhere between moderately to seriously successful in their fields.

 

:grouphug: I know you can find your answers, but you might have to look somewhere you haven't been looking before.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Maybe you need to reframe your idea of "supporting the family." Instead of it being about earning money via a job, could you make it about reducing expenses? A dollar saved is more than a dollar earned, since you have to pay taxes on the dollar earned.

 

Ways your boys could help save money:

 

Gardening

Car maintenance and oil changes

Chickens for eggs

Bulk cooking

Canning and dehydrating anything that is a good deal

Install a timer on the water heater (water heaters cost about $40-50 per month to heat all the time)

Reading about and implementing other energy saving ideas

 

If they put together enough of these (unless you are already that frugal), they might be able to save your family more money than they could earn if they were able to find a job.

[5kidsforME]

I'm hitting a weird spot on the road. I'm having a hard time homeschooling my teen boys right now because it feels like coddling them, or spoiling them.

 

When my brothers and I were these ages we were working (sometimes legally, sometimes not) and helping to pay the family's bills. We each carried a bill. This wasn't my mother's ideal, and my Dad didn't even know we were paying the bills, but this was our life.

 

I left home for good when I was barely 17. By the time I was 17.5 years old I had an apartment, a car, a job, and was enrolled in a vocational school.

 

My sons get carted hither and yon, all our time, energy, and money go toward them...they continue to be a drain on family resources past the age where my siblings and I, and DH and his siblings, were all turning to help the family. DH and I are feeling spread very thin right now.

 

There comes a point when a teen's cooking one night a week, pitching in with housework, and tidying up after oneself doesn't feel like contributing anymore, because the 7yo also does some of that level of work.

 

Before the recession really and truly walloped us we were able to overcome these issues on a psychological level. We were able to just be glad we could provide for the boys, and rested in the knowledge that a better high school education at home would help them be higher earners and more successful citizens than we've been able to be.

 

That's not true anymore. There are no guarantees that studying Latin and Calculus in high school will get them into college. No guarantees that college success will lead to a job. We get the feeling that these boys are going to have a tough row to hoe no matter how they spend the next few years. It seems they should be getting the hard lessons now to prepare them for survival as young adults.

 

But they can't even get jobs. In our area the teens are in a definite depression, losing job opportunities to adults who need the jobs more. College-educated people are working the fast food drive-thru.

 

So we keep spending thousands a year (plus my lost income) to homeschool these great hulking boys who are doing nothing to help DH support the family. This isn't how I was raised, and to be perfectly honest some days it is very hard to carry on.

 

I think I'm on a few people's bad lists lately, but I hope I won't be bashed to pieces. I see it as my duty to homeschool my sons if there are no better opportunities for them, and there aren't, so I'll keep going.

 

I just wondered if there were any others struggling to pretend they are middle-class Ivy League types raising children of privilege when they are really just one step from poverty and wishing their boys could go to work.

 

Tibbie, what does your husband do for a living? What is his job?

 

My boys are all 12 and under so take this for what it's worth. Dh works for himself. He is a blue collar worker. he does heating, a/c, electrical, construction and does all around handyman stuff. He literally can fix anything in a house. No exaggeration. We are equally blessed because in the 9 years that he has been working on his own he has never had a day where he wakes up and has no work. That is huge.

 

We have talked about this extensively. We feel we will be happy with whatever our boys decide for their future career. BUT they will be taught everything my husband can teach them. My 12 year old goes to work with DH at least 3 times a month. When he is 13 he will go with dh at least one day of week. Between all of his school and work he will be busy.

 

We want our boys to know everything possible that dh can teach them. That way they have options. They can choose to work in that field and put themselves through college and take care of any family that they have or they can choose to go permenantly in that field. Regardless if they choose to become an accountant they will be able to save themseles thousands by fixing their own home.

 

DH will teach them and apprentice them, they of course will have to get licensed when the time comes.

 

I also want them to learn a strong work ethic young. DH grew up on a farm, he has amazing work ethic. The guy gets up everyday rain or shine, sick or depressed and hustles. I want my boys to learn that. Not sure if that is teachable at this point.

[Shellers]

We had my oldest DD (21) work all through (public) high school. She needed the distraction because she was rather wild. At 16 she wanted to drive so we required her to pay for her own car insurance and gas. My oldest now admits having a job helped keep her out of a lot of trouble and is probably why she's still alive, yeah she was that crazy.

 

My other DD's, almost 16 and 14, want to get jobs but I don't want them to. I think school is their job. These girls are way calmer than their older sister so they don't need jobs to keep them out of trouble. I'm not sure if they will be driving at 16 or not. If they end up driving they will have to get jobs.

 

Right after graduating from high school my DH was working on geothermal rigs, making more money than his dad. He's mom hated the fact that he was making more money than his father. She started making DH pay rent and other household bills. My FIL worked at a vineyard and his job came with a free house, so it's not like they were paying rent. DH ended up moving out a few months later. He figured if he was going to pay rent and household bills why not have his own place? It's 40 years later and DH still is irked his mom making him pay rent and bills when he was a teen.

 

I moved out when I was 17 and a half. I had my own apartment, car, and was going to a junior college. My mom never made me pay family bills but I would have if she needed me to.

 

I think a teen's job is to do well in school and help out around the house. If a teen wants to drive then they should pay for their own car insurance and gas, unless of course, the parents are willing to pay.

 

To the OP: I don't mean to sound harsh, but maybe it's time to drop the whole "middle-class Ivy League" facade?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Shellers

[WeeBeaks]

I too see where you are coming from. My DH had no chores, no responsibility and a paid for college. I moved out from my guardians' house at 17-1/2, found a job and never looked back. I worked and went to school as I was able. I didn't finish college until I was already married for 2 years.

 

I look on my kids (MUCH younger than yours) and say to myself "When I was that age, I ...." But they are not me. They are much much more sheltered, and overall I'm happy with that. I would never want them to live through what I did (abuse) as it changes a person forever. [i'm not saying working is abusive by the way. I worked at younger than 14, and I don't regret that part at all.]

 

That said, I hope to show my kids increasing responsibility. If your boys are doing the same basically as your 7yo, is there anything they can take off your shoulders or your DH's? Can they do car maintenance (learn it if necessary)? Can they garden, work in the yard, do more chores, etc. If there is no paid work, they can still help you.

 

:grouphug:

[Guest]

Tibbie, what does your husband do for a living? What is his job?

 

My boys are all 12 and under so take this for what it's worth. Dh works for himself. He is a blue collar worker. he does heating, a/c, electrical, construction and does all around handyman stuff. He literally can fix anything in a house. No exaggeration. We are equally blessed because in the 9 years that he has been working on his own he has never had a day where he wakes up and has no work. That is huge.

 

We have talked about this extensively. We feel we will be happy with whatever our boys decide for their future career. BUT they will be taught everything my husband can teach them. My 12 year old goes to work with DH at least 3 times a month. When he is 13 he will go with dh at least one day of week. Between all of his school and work he will be busy.

 

We want our boys to know everything possible that dh can teach them. That way they have options. They can choose to work in that field and put themselves through college and take care of any family that they have or they can choose to go permenantly in that field. Regardless if they choose to become an accountant they will be able to save themseles thousands by fixing their own home.

 

DH will teach them and apprentice them, they of course will have to get licensed when the time comes.

 

I also want them to learn a strong work ethic young. DH grew up on a farm, he has amazing work ethic. The guy gets up everyday rain or shine, sick or depressed and hustles. I want my boys to learn that. Not sure if that is teachable at this point.

 

:iagree: This is identically true for our family. My BIL also taught his son this way and, though his grown son does not work in construction, he did an amazing job rehabbing a seriously condemned house. This gave him a far better leg up in young adulthood than many of his peers, who have no hope of home ownership in the near future. Over the summer, I have been teaching my dd the bookeeping end of the company, so she has some skills in that. Beginning this summer, I want my ds 12 to start to learn the handyman skills and work with his dad.

[AuntieM]

Hey Tibbie, I have no wisdom to share, but I am reading this thread with great interest. I mostly just wanted to say you're not on my bad list. You are an articulate straight shooter and I always appreciate that about you.

[elegantlion]

We're those blue collar people, however, we've not always had it good. Things have been tough. My dh can no longer work in his chosen industry, construction, due to health issues, and to be honest this last year has bought the big one.

 

We want ds to learn construction, but not as a business/career. It's a family tradition that we want to pass down.

 

However, ds is bent differently. He's not a physical labor kind of guy. He's into different things. To be honest we want ds to have a better life. Not that there isn't value in blue collar work, because there is, but we don't want ds to have to go through the struggles we have. We don't want him to NOT have a choice. So we've been discussing college since, well a while. We don't see it as an option. If he wants to get a degree and then do blue collar work, fine, but let his be choice, not his only option.

 

My parents grew up country poor. My mom had to move to town and get her own apartment in order to finish high school. He parents told her they didn't care what she did, but they wouldn't help. She had to work full time while in high school. My parents worked hard and moved to suburbs specifically so they could raise their kids with "more". More options, etc. I don't regret the way we were raised. I still have some of the good old-fashioned work ethic they instilled in me.

 

My goal is to give my son the best education possible so he has more options in life. We sacrifice a lot so I can stay home and do that. I don't expect ds to contribute to the bills, but I do expect him to bring a good work ethic to his education. That's his job right now. I try to look with long-term perspective. Ds is not headed toward an Ivy League college, that's not his goal or ours.

 

I don't even know if this answers any of your questions, I've been distracted a dozen times while writing.So that's my perspective from our blue collar side.

[Mama Geek]

I would like to say that I am glad my mom didn't have that opinion when I was younger. My parents were divorced and my mom lived below the poverty line and raised 2 kids. I went on to college and got a degree in engineering. I consider myself good at school, but engineering still wasn't an easy road for me.

 

My dh was raised on a small farm without a lot of money and almost didn't graduate high school. He now has a masters degree in engineering. College wasn't easy for him either.

 

Over the last 16 years we have paid off our college debt and are completely debt free. We own our home and our vehicles and we have savings. I am able to stay home with dd and dh works contract jobs part of the time. He has been working less than half time for the last 3 years and we are still doing very well. Dh has just taken a job in another state that will probably last close to a year so that will wreck his average.:001_smile:

 

We plan to give our dd the best education that we can. It really doesn't matter if she goes to any Ivy League school or if she decides to get married and raise a family rather than going to college. We want to giver her every opportunity we can. We will also still do our best to instill a strong work ethic in her.

 

I am not giving you a hard time or even suggesting what you should do. You just don't know what your sons will end up doing with their lives and why not give them all of the advantages that you can.

[Cassy]

I am not giving you a hard time or even suggesting what you should do. You just don't know what your sons will end up doing with their lives and why not give them all of the advantages that you can.

 

This is exactly what the OP is doing, but she and her DH are not "doing very well". What she is saying is that it's a terrible strain financially, which is making her begin to reassess the wisdom of what they're doing. She does actually say "I see it as my duty to homeschool my sons if there are no better opportunities for them, and there aren't, so I'll keep going." However, questioning the likely success/effectiveness of any longterm plans or strategy is an intelligent approach, even if it is uncomfortable and upsetting.

 

Best wishes

 

Cassy

[Lisbeth]

This reminds me of Tiger Mom...if you read her book, she talks about worrying that her children will become soft. My parents didn't make a ton of money but I was not allowed to hold a job in high school. I was told that academics were focus #1.

 

We are doing well, and I would not got a child a bill to pay either way. However, they can help with gardening, household chores, canning, couponing, sewing, budgeting, conducting family home evening (LDS tradition), carpentry as needed...etc. Our focus is more developing self reliance skills rather than working for someone else.

 

Also, the solution in a very tough economy is to be the best. There are still plenty of opportunities for those who work very hard and display top tier academic achievement. Aim to be one of those people...hard work can still pay off.

[DawnM]

Do you really need to spend thousands per year on homeschooling? We don't. If you are including general living expenses, I don't think that is fair to your kids.

 

I didn't work until I went to college. There was just no opportunity. And to be perfectly honest, I was spoiled. I didn't even have to work in college. When I was a kid, up until graduation, I barely even did chores around the house. Seriously. And I got most of what I wanted (within reason.) I was an only child and my parents gave me a lot.

 

HOWEVER, that did no stop me from not only finishing college and grad school, but working my way through both, getting a job right out of college that supported me just fine and asking for overtime work when I could get it. I was a very hard worker.

 

So, don't lose heart, they won't be bums on your sofa at 32 most likely. Lots of discussion about what is expected of them and how to best reach their goals goes VERY far.

 

Dawn

 

 

So we keep spending thousands a year (plus my lost income) to homeschool these great hulking boys who are doing nothing to help DH support the family. This isn't how I was raised, and to be perfectly honest some days it is very hard to carry on.

 

I think I'm on a few people's bad lists lately, but I hope I won't be bashed to pieces. I see it as my duty to homeschool my sons if there are no better opportunities for them, and there aren't, so I'll keep going.

 

I just wondered if there were any others struggling to pretend they are middle-class Ivy League types raising children of privilege when they are really just one step from poverty and wishing their boys could go to work.

[Tarreymere]

I agree that you could re-evaluate what you are spending to homeschool your boys. 'Thousands' sounds high to me.....maybe there are some less expensive alternatives?

 

Your boys are older, if you wanted to get a part time job you should be able to do that and they should be responsible enough to do what they need to do when you aren't home. When I pulled my older kids out of middle and high school years ago I still had to work so I couldn't always be home to supervise what they were doing. It wasn't perfect, but they learned to be accountable.

 

You have gotten some great ideas for your boys to either help out with cutting your expenses at home and for part time work. My own older kids were really into having their own little businesses to bring in money....for example we lived in town then and they managed to acquire a number of newspaper routes over several years that they worked collectively (that is the biggest enterprise and the longest running). If there is a need somewhere in your community that you or they can identify, is there a way for them to meet that need? My crazy crew even went to the extreme of buying pop and putting it in a cooler and trucking the cooler on a wagon out to where the road crews were fixing potholes in town and re-selling the pop at a profit. I'm just lucky that the town never cited them for not having a business license!

 

Good luck. Things can be hard. Boys eat alot.....maybe they can learn to hunt or fish? Hang in there, you are almost done.

[Harriet Vane]

I will be honest, I struggle with your post.

 

On the one hand, I know all too well what it is to be in financial difficulties. I spent many years very, very poor. I am totally sympathetic to your hardships, which I am sure are very genuine.

 

From a young age it was apparent that I could depend upon my family for nothing further than food and shelter. Clothing, school, and extracurriculars were on my shoulders. Going to a particular private school was important to me, so I worked through high school to pay my own tuition. I am so thankful for the generous financial aid package the school extended to me, for my kind employers, and also for my youth pastors who discovered that I was paying my own bills and who generously paid off a large portion of what I owed school. Those were tight years, and I worked very, very hard, and I would not have made it without the love and support and cheerleading of those outside of my family who cared. Those years instilled some good habits and shaped much of my character, but I would not wish those hardships upon my children.

 

I also think of my aunt, just a few years older than me and more like a sister. Our mothers had a business together, so we grew up together. My aunt dropped out of college due to financial difficulties, and also because she found the academics quite challenging. At first her plan was to work to earn enough to return to school. However, her mother's financial difficulties were severe, and most of what my aunt earned ended up going to pay the household bills. It was truly anguishing for her to watch her college hopes disappear like that. The loss of her education caused her pain for many, many years. (She passed on a year ago.)

 

I would encourage you to hold onto the longer view, and keep your boys' futures at the center of your day-to-day schooling. Their path will not be easy. On the contrary, getting them through either vocational training or college will require hard work, and they will likely take on debt to do so. Assuming they have college debt, they will work long years to pay. Their road will be even harder if they have compromised their education early on.

 

The reason your post was a struggle for me to read is because I remember the hard years all too vividly. I wish my family had been more supportive. I wish my aunt hadn't had to sacrifice so painfully.

 

I do like what another poster suggested in terms of asking the boys to contribute to saving money, especially with gardening. A friend of mine does this with her kids. This friend's husband is a roofer--his work is seasonal and weather-dependent, and they are not rich. For example, there was one year that their Christmas was really, really tight. They chose to "postpone" Christmas. They made it a big, fun adventure with the kids to do so. Once Christmas was over, towards the new year, they loaded the kids in the car and went trolling through the alleys (they live in a large city) until they found a discarded Christmas tree. They garbage-picked the tree and took it home and had a delayed Christmas celebration. Anyway, this friend has a double lot and requires her kids to engage in serious gardening each summer. Their gardening really does help with the food costs. For you this might be a good way to provide your boys with a job and a way to contribute to the house.

[lailasmum]

I'm sorry I don't really understand why any parent would feel sad that their kid had it easier than them. Surely the fact that you had to assume that level of responsibility so young wasn't a good thing. Most people get it at some stage, does it matter if its 2 or 3 years later when they actually are adults? You've managed to make it easier for your children through your hard work and you could use this window of time before they are adults to get them ahead so they aren't just another person looking for a job in an economy that sucks. They could be the person who stands out and gets the job because you took the time to broaden their horizons rather than begrudge them their teen education and the money they cost. It doesn't sound like it is their fault that there aren't any part time jobs for them.

 

Every skill or bit of education they gain gives them something more to put on a cv and something that might make them stand out over someone else whether they go straight into work or go on to higher edcuation. Maybe you could add practical skills into the things you teach them. Things like health and safety training, first aid, or a basic computer qualification or even food safety.

 

As others have said maybe voluntary work, something they get really deeply involved in and see the rewards of their time. Or maybe becoming resposible for growing food for your family either through gardening or through raising animals of some sort, say chickens and then showing them how much the things they manage to grow are worth. Another idea if there is on near you is being involved in a community farm where everyone works in the fields and then shares the crops. My brother has done this and it is very worthwhile in terms of return for your time. He went about once a week for most of the day for a few months and would come home each week with a massive amount of seasonal staple veg.

 

We bought our chickens from a 17yr old who had been raising and selling chickens for years, he then branched out into pigs. He ran the business himself in their garden.. He is now training at agricultural college. I am sure he has learnt many things from the little business he ran.

Edited January 26, 2012 by lailasmum

[georgialee]

My boys are not anywhere near that point yet, but what about more menial type work - farms, stables, greenhouses, summer landscaping, etc? Many times those jobs are passed up for something more cushy - even if it is only working at the drive-thru.

[choirfarm]

Hi Tibbie,

 

I'm not blue-collar, but I hope you'll let me chime in. How old are your children? What do they WANT to do when high school is over? What are their long term goals?

 

Now, as far as being a drain.. I have two teenage boys: 14 and 16 ( both have birthdays in March). I do not take them hither and yon... I buy clothes for them, which isn't much: jeans at Walmart or JC Pinney, boring tennis shoes at Academy, they tend to get t-shirts... That is it... My kids tend to get 200-300 dollars total in cash/gift cards for Christmas and birthday from various relatives. I don't give them an allowance or any spending money.. My husband will occasionally pay them to do a chore like painting our shutters or chopping up wood and stacking it from a 200 year old tree that blew down.. To be honest, they never spend all of their money. They just don't do much. We go to movies as a family maybe 3 times a year..maybe. I'm not sure what they would spend their money on... They don't really go or do anything.

 

Yes, homeschooling high school CAN be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. Yes, my oldest is taking PA Homeschooler classes, which can be expensive. For him it works. For my younger boy, the cc is working better. Our local cc is only 30 dollars an hour for dual enrollment. So I'm paying 90 dollars each semester for them to take Spanish. Dual credit is BIG around here with our cc. LOTS of homeschoolers have their child take enough dual credit in high school that they graduate with a high school diploma and an associate's degree. I'm thinking that may be the route I go with my middle child. They drive themselves to the college. They do all of it themselves. I'm not really involved anymore.. I'm showing both of them how to register when it is time to do it for next fall, so they will also do that.

 

I don't know how the rest of your curriculum is, but if you attack ALL of your curriculum with ALL of your children with all the enthusiam/energy that you do with TOG as you described on the high school board, then it can be expensive and energy draining. What you do sounds SO AWESOME!!! But if you are feeling like you have to buy the resources and give that amount of time to every subject, I can see where that would be draining.. I would also wonder if the kids would expect learning to be that AWESOME all the time...

 

I put my energy into a few things, but some subjects are just "get er done" Will history at the cc be as good as I could do at home... No, probably not. (I'm a former history/English teacher) But it will be good enough to get my son into college and save the mother/son battles, so it will be worth it to me.. But my goal has never been Ivy-League... College..yes..

 

And see that is the other question.. What will they be doing. Some homeschoolers go the trade route and our community college has some GREAT training programs: fire fighting, police, air-conditioning, computers, etc. They have great job placement as well.

 

I don't know where you are in the country and part of this may be a location problem... If you are located in downtown Detroit that will be much harder than where I am in rural Texas... Look around at local community colleges and/or trade schools. That said, if your boys WANT college, then have them go for it... I guess I see high school as a time they take responsibilty for what they want to do. I am succeeding with my oldest: He is very driven and although he will not have a job, it is looking like his academic focus will enable him to pay for at least half and maybe all of college... I'm not there with my middle one, but he is only 9th grade. I am seeing glimmers..

 

My boys do their own laundry, cook and pretty much can run/have run the house.. They have learned that partially because I'm gone with my daughter and earlier in our schooling to take care of my father... I just couldn't do it all and had to have their help..

 

My boys don't do a lot of extra-curricular and sometimes I think they should do more... Still working on that part for me. I can't figure out how to get my middle one involved in SOMETHING... He has no interest... That is my struggle

 

Just a few random thoughts... I may be asking you for some of your great TOG ideas when we start back with it again next year for year 1.. They sounded great!!!!

 

My sons get carted hither and yon, all our time, energy, and money go toward them...they continue to be a drain on family resources past the age where my siblings and I, and DH and his siblings, were all turning to help the family. DH and I are feeling spread very thin right now.

 

 

I just wondered if there were any others struggling to pretend they are middle-class Ivy League types raising children of privilege when they are really just one step from poverty and wishing their boys could go to work.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I would like to say that I am glad my mom didn't have that opinion when I was younger. My parents were divorced and my mom lived below the poverty line and raised 2 kids. I went on to college and got a degree in engineering. I consider myself good at school, but engineering still wasn't an easy road for me.

 

My dh was raised on a small farm without a lot of money and almost didn't graduate high school. He now has a masters degree in engineering. College wasn't easy for him either.

 

Over the last 16 years we have paid off our college debt and are completely debt free. We own our home and our vehicles and we have savings. I am able to stay home with dd and dh works contract jobs part of the time. He has been working less than half time for the last 3 years and we are still doing very well. Dh has just taken a job in another state that will probably last close to a year so that will wreck his average.:001_smile:

 

We plan to give our dd the best education that we can. It really doesn't matter if she goes to any Ivy League school or if she decides to get married and raise a family rather than going to college. We want to giver her every opportunity we can. We will also still do our best to instill a strong work ethic in her.

 

I am not giving you a hard time or even suggesting what you should do. You just don't know what your sons will end up doing with their lives and why not give them all of the advantages that you can.

 

They are getting all the advantages that we can give them. I thought I made it clear that I will continue homeschooling and doing my best, and my record of posts on these forums should show my dedication.

 

Every parent wants their child to have more, do more, and be more. Of course I feel that way. The question is whether my method of bringing that about (homeschooling) is truly best for my sons and my family. I think it is, so I'll continue, but it is hard. It feels, right at this moment, that I'm reaching too far. Too many steps ahead. It kind of feels as if I've helped them a little further down the road by doing a stellar job on K-8 home education, and ideally they would go a bit further with their own dc. I'm leaping too many generations at once. The strain is too much. But again, I don't see a better option, so I am pressing on.

 

Rainefox, I can't get a part-time job right now because I also have two children under the age of 11 and no childcare. My DH has been on rotating shift work, so I have to always available to be home. We never know whether he'll be on days or nights lately. I've done freelance editing at home in the past, so I'm looking for more of that kind of work.

 

Paula, DH is a union electrician.

 

Thanks to all who were able to understand where I was coming from, and thanks for the good ideas of how to cope better or be more efficient on all fronts. As I skim through I see some strategies I hadn't thought of yet.

 

We're having a super-busy day here so I won't be able to respond any more until late this evening, but I will certainly be back to talk about these things. There's a lot I want to answer, thanks so much for your time, everyone.

[Rebecca VA]

Many teens think of school as their "job." They are working HARD toward college scholarships. The activities that they get carted around for? Part of the scholarship plan.

 

College scholarships can save families huge amounts of money. A teen who is working with an eye toward earning as much scholarship money as possible is being a savvy scholar, not a mooch.

[choirfarm]

Many teens think of school as their "job." They are working HARD toward college scholarships. The activities that they get carted around for? Part of the scholarship plan.

 

College scholarships can save families huge amounts of money. A teen who is working with an eye toward earning as much scholarship money as possible is being a savvy scholar, not a mooch.

 

 

Yep.. that is what my dad told me. He wouldn't let me work in high school. He told me I would have my whole life to work. School was my job. He did expect me to get a summer job, but I had to quit when school started.

 

My oldest is definitely following that route.. By the time he graduates he will have 18 hours in AP credit and 18 hours in dual credit.. So he will have already saved me a year of tuition. His scholarship potential is good, though I won't know for sure until next year..

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I would like to say that I am glad my mom didn't have that opinion when I was younger. My parents were divorced and my mom lived below the poverty line and raised 2 kids. I went on to college and got a degree in engineering. I consider myself good at school, but engineering still wasn't an easy road for me.

 

My dh was raised on a small farm without a lot of money and almost didn't graduate high school. He now has a masters degree in engineering. College wasn't easy for him either.

 

Over the last 16 years we have paid off our college debt and are completely debt free. We own our home and our vehicles and we have savings. I am able to stay home with dd and dh works contract jobs part of the time. He has been working less than half time for the last 3 years and we are still doing very well. Dh has just taken a job in another state that will probably last close to a year so that will wreck his average.:001_smile:

We plan to give our dd the best education that we can. It really doesn't matter if she goes to any Ivy League school or if she decides to get married and raise a family rather than going to college. We want to giver her every opportunity we can. We will also still do our best to instill a strong work ethic in her.

 

I am not giving you a hard time or even suggesting what you should do. You just don't know what your sons will end up doing with their lives and why not give them all of the advantages that you can.

 

Just real quick, even though I don't have time to read and respond to the rest of the thread yet, I just have to comment again on this.

 

You see that bolded print in your post up there? You are scolding me from a place of peace and plenty. You are the person in the Bible, book of James, who says to the poor, "Go and be filled. Be like me, I'm fine." Don't you know my DH and a million just like him work just as hard as your husband has? Don't you know that not everyone can get ahead in this economy? Don't you know that some of us who were just fine are now NOT FINE?

 

OK, here is something I've considered: My 15yo needs just one more science and one more math to achieve my state's graduation standards. I've thought of graduating him so he can go to work sooner, to begin saving for his own life. He would then probably go to an apprenticeship, rather than college. That's the kind of thing we're thinking about. Is that best, or is it best to try to be more attractive to colleges in the possibly vain hope that someone will offer him a free ride? We won't have money for anything, anything, anything at all for their college. Not one thin dime.

So you see why I need to think about our course of action now that we are obviously not going to pull out economically before our boys are grown. It is a big deal. I once said that we'd go from the trailer park to Parnassus in one generation. Is it so strange, that with the wolf at the door, I might have to wonder for a moment if it actually takes two or three generations?

 

I love my sons dearly and fiercely. Everything I do or consider is about whether it's best for them and their future. When I say "pretending to be middle class" I don't mean that we go into debt to create an artificial lifestyle for their comfort. They wear holey jeans and go somewhat cold and hungry every now and then. They have no illusions. When I say "pretending to be middle class" I simply mean trying to live on one income and homeschooling. Homeschooling is a middle class endeavor, it just is.

[nono]

My 2 cents is to disabuse yourself of the notion of "middle class Ivy League" as any 4 words that should reasonably go together! ;) That's a fairy tale.

 

Also, one other thing I'd like to mention. People talk about the collar color like it is the definitive thing. I see the work world differently, perhaps because my family is a mix of blue and white (no real pinks here). I see the work-world cut in two: owners and workers. And, while owners carry way more responsibility than the workers, they tend to reap direct benefits from the effort they put forth. Since you seem to value hard work, you may want to consider in which direction you steer your young adults. In other words, I'd be picking their brains regularly with what types of businesses they might want to pursue or create, and see if any of that can start sooner rather than later.

 

:grouphug: and good luck! I have about 40 years age difference between myself and my children, and I know I'll have similar struggles of now v. then as they age into the workforce.

[choirfarm]

J

 

OK, here is something I've considered: My 15yo needs just one more science and one more math to achieve my state's graduation standards. I've thought of graduating him so he can go to work sooner, to begin saving for his own life. He would then probably go to an apprenticeship, rather than college. That's the kind of thing we're thinking about. Is that best, or is it best to try to be more attractive to colleges in the possibly vain hope that someone will offer him a free ride? We won't have money for anything, anything, anything at all for their college. Not one thin dime.

 

.

 

 

Ok.. what I would do:

 

I would sit down with said 15yo and I would ask him what his goals were.. Then together look around at the options.. No.. I would not be planning on a free ride.. I'm not.. Look at apprenticeships, vo-tech, etc.. Financial aid might very well be possible for things like this. Would he be 1st generation college? Many times that might be possible. He could also work part time and go to community college. ( I know several kids doing that here.) Vo tech.. There are often financial programs... the state of Texas gives lots of money to those in financial need for programs like this. Are there any where you live??? If you could pm me some info, I'd be happy to look. I've been finding tons of scholarships for my friends.. Our electric co-operative gives scholarships based on financial need.. Then they have one where you ust show up to the meeting and they draw one 1,000 scholarship from the hat.. Rural co-operatives all over give scholarship money. I neverk knew that.. and you don't have to use it for a state college.. You can use it to go to our community college and do some of the trade courses for air conditioning and such... 60 percent of the kids in our public schools are on free lunch... They have tons of programs around here to try to encourage low income students... I promise.. not everything is fr middle class!!!

[fairfarmhand]

ITA with finding outside opportunities that may not necessarily be money making right now, but will lead to experience and work ethic. Are there handy neighbors who would be willing to allow your sons to help with chores? If they learn things like painting, drywall repair, roofing, landscaping, car maintenance and repair, etc. even if they never use these skills to make money, they will later use them to save money, not to mention that guys just like doing these kinds of things.

 

BTW, my "white collar" engineer dh works with blue collar workers all the time.(He works for a public utility) He loves learning from these guys all the time, and despises the engineers who set themselves "above" the hand-on guys. Even if your kids are able to go to college and get one of the coveted "white" collar jobs, they will go further if they respect and learn from hands on tradespeople.In fact, my dh wishes he knew what these blue collar guys know.

 

Consider this....in this economy, things like car repair, HVAC repair, electrical work etc. will go very far. Think about it, people are fixing things rather than buying new ones. Also civil engineering is a very secure field, especially the water/wastewater dept. (Dh says that no matter the economy, everyone needs clean water and to flush the toilet!)

[Mama Geek]

Just real quick, even though I don't have time to read and respond to the rest of the thread yet, I just have to comment again on this.

 

You see that bolded print in your post up there? You are scolding me from a place of peace and plenty. You are the person in the Bible, book of James, who says to the poor, "Go and be filled. Be like me, I'm fine." Don't you know my DH and a million just like him work just as hard as your husband has? Don't you know that not everyone can get ahead in this economy? Don't you know that some of us who were just fine are now NOT FINE?

 

OK, here is something I've considered: My 15yo needs just one more science and one more math to achieve my state's graduation standards. I've thought of graduating him so he can go to work sooner, to begin saving for his own life. He would then probably go to an apprenticeship, rather than college. That's the kind of thing we're thinking about. Is that best, or is it best to try to be more attractive to colleges in the possibly vain hope that someone will offer him a free ride? We won't have money for anything, anything, anything at all for their college. Not one thin dime.

So you see why I need to think about our course of action now that we are obviously not going to pull out economically before our boys are grown. It is a big deal. I once said that we'd go from the trailer park to Parnassus in one generation. Is it so strange, that with the wolf at the door, I might have to wonder for a moment if it actually takes two or three generations?

 

I love my sons dearly and fiercely. Everything I do or consider is about whether it's best for them and their future. When I say "pretending to be middle class" I don't mean that we go into debt to create an artificial lifestyle for their comfort. They wear holey jeans and go somewhat cold and hungry every now and then. They have no illusions. When I say "pretending to be middle class" I simply mean trying to live on one income and homeschooling. Homeschooling is a middle class endeavor, it just is.

 

The point of my post wasn't to say just do what we did. It was to say you never know what your kids are capable of doing once they are adults. My dh's family is huge and mostly blue collar and several of them homeschool. Some have gone on to work with their parents in their businesses and some are planning to go to college.

 

Nobody has an infinite amount of money. We all have to decide what our priorities are. I am sorry I have offended that was not the intent and I will back out of this now.

[leeannpal]

Wives of police and fire dept men are always in this situation...what they do if they also work full time is hire a teen or give their own teens responsibilities for the younger ones while they are at work. I've also known a few to hire a college student and a few to swap mom duty. One works first shift, one works second or third; the families swap care of youngers between the adults who are off duty.

 

To find a teen: ask around at church, or ask a scoutmaster

 

I have to say, rather than wanting your sons to work, I would be looking for at least a part-time job myself. Time are hard. Many people have to do tough things to make ends meet. If it is true that your sons have no option for work, I would be looking for a job outside the home and relying on the sons to provide babysitting services. Could your sond help homeschool the younger ones if you were working during the day?

[chiguirre]

Rainefox, I can't get a part-time job right now because I also have two children under the age of 11 and no childcare.

 

You've got 2 teenagers, you've got live-in, 24/7 childcare! If it's easier for you to get a job than your sons, I'd go that route and pay them to babysit and keep house for you. They'll develop very useful life skills and make a contribution to the financial well-being of your family.

[dragons in the flower bed]

You've got 2 teenagers, you've got live-in, 24/7 childcare! If it's easier for you to get a job than your sons, I'd go that route and pay them to babysit and keep house for you. They'll develop very useful life skills and make a contribution to the financial well-being of your family.

 

:iagree: Though I'm not sure you need to pay them.

[dragons in the flower bed]

No.. I would not be planning on a free ride.. I'm not.. Look at apprenticeships, vo-tech, etc...

 

There is considerable need-based aid available for excellent students. If you guys are really broke, your EFC is probably $0.

[Carol in Cal.]

Tillie,

How wonderful that your DH has a union electrician job!

Around here those are pretty unusual because there are few or no apprenticeship programs around here anymore. Also around here those kinds of jobs have decent pay with really unusually good benefits, especially medical and pension plans.

 

My DH has journeyman papers in model making. This makes him extremely unusual, and his skills are always in demand. He has been thinking that all the jobs in his field would dry up any minute for decades, and they have not done so. And by and large he likes what he does.

 

DD is different. She like poetry and wants to be a writer someday. I am fine with that, but she has to be able to make a living as well. That is something that we talk about a lot. She is at a brick and mortar high school, and I am making her take tough math, stick with science as well, and generally get a well-rounded education. I plan to help her with college, and I'm even fine with her majoring in literature if she wants to, but she has to get a trade or a teaching certificate or something that enables her to make money.

 

However, if she became an electrician, for instance, she would have a more interesting life because she likes books. She would have an easier time starting and running her own business because she knows math and because we have talked about practical things of life a lot. She would be able to talk with ANYONE and be respected and respectable. No matter what she does, her education will not be wasted. She doesn't have to become a college professor to be a good, upright, respectable, well-rounded, educated person.

 

Bottom line: I want her to recognize that there is dignity in honest work of all kinds, to be a well-educated but not a snobby person, to be able to relate to all kinds of people, and to have an interesting mental life no matter whether she has a very intellectual job or not. I want her to be able to be both self-sufficient and interdependent. A good education toward a white collar life is one way of heading toward that. But if she ends up being a blue collar person, I will respect her just as much, and I won't consider her education to have been a waste if it informs her life as I am sure that it will.

[elegantlion]

(((Tibbie)))

 

One thing we've always done is tried to be transparent with ds. We've used our own bad luck and bad choices as talking points. I pretty sure he's paying attention to the good choices as well.

 

I agree it's time to sit with your teens and discuss the future. To be honest the whole guidance counselor things scares me. Just yesterday I thought of someone in our family that would be perfect to have a nice heart-to-heart with ds about college choices, finances, getting loans, networking. Dh and I can do that to an extent, but this person has wisdom in those areas where dh and I have only fleeting knowledge at best.

 

As teens they should be willing to understand that a lot of their future is in THEIR hands. If they want something they have a responsibility in seeing it come about.

 

I'm already looking at colleges in our area for ds. He'll need scholarships or loans, I'm looking at place that have some free rides as well. Dh went to college for a while, I didn't. We went to the school of hard knocks, we learned a lot, but honestly, it was more expensive than four years of college would have been.

 

I wouldn't care if ds wanted to be a carpenter like his father. Right now he's not bent that way, and I don't think it's going to change. However, I still think there is value in making sure they have options. Dh went into carpentry in his late teens. He's good, he's made good money, he's also had lousy years. Until recently it was his passion. However, he was willing to give it up as a career years ago but didn't have the degree to do anything but sales (only slightly less chaotic than carpentry), and physical work. It bites that in the current age you can't get your foot in the door without a degree (not at most non-trade jobs that pay a living wage), but it is the reality for now.

 

We get buy on very little to homeschool. I spend the most on languages and real books. If you truly are spending OVER what you feel comfortable spending I'd reevaluate. There are some good options that I see for homeschool, things that are free or low cost.

[swellmomma]

Not where you are just yet but feeling it. NOt necessarily at a monetary level but at a responsibility level. I had a position everyday afterschool from the age of 11 (was a volunteer back then) by 15 it was a paid position. I worked everyday afterschool right until high school graduation and then I worked fulltime. In addition to that I was babysitting (including over nights at age 11) getting myself up and off to school, taking care of my younger siblings etc. I was well on my way to aduulthood by age 11 and living on my own 6 months after graduation. Then I look at my oldest 2 ages 12 & 13 and they are so lazy, they don't contribute anything to the home without a battle. Little things like hanging their own coats up is a battle. They can not legally work here until age 15 for most places. So I can't send them out to get a job yet.

 

My plan is apprenticeship. Canada did not get hit with te recession the way the states did, and in my province in particular it has not made a big difference at all. My kids all know they have no choice in it. At 15 they will start an apprenticeship in a trade of their choice. They will work through the rest of high school at that apprenticeship. I am hoping it will give them the means to build that responsibility away from me as they mature to adulthood and will give them a solid career to turn to right out of high school if college proves to not be an option at that time, if college is a possibility they will have the means to pay for it themselves without relying on me or loans to attend.

[In2why]

Tibbie I get it. I have 3 adult children, and I am very happy with the people they are, and the jobs they have. (Well I would like my DD to continue her education more, but she is self supporting) But with that said they are more Blue Colllar, than Thomas Jefferson. That isn't a bad thing, most people do not change the world.

I am also very pragmatic about college after seeing so many of their peers spend 6-8 years getting a degree, that isn't changing their earning power, and in some cases, they can't even find jobs. We are probably in the upper range financially, and we were dilligent about saving for retirement, and as much as I love my kids, I hear stories of people spending their future and going into massive debt so their kids can go find themselves, and cringe. I can understand if the child is sure, and a program is rare, but overall I think most colleges are overpriced, and in some ways a scam. State schools and community colleges can provide most of the same opportunities. As for working I am right there with you, and I think we as parents are overprotective, and have shielded kids trying to give them better lives, that we might be getting unintended consequences. For me I try, and sometimes fail, at a balance between education and life skills. We all have snowflakes, because they are all one of a kind, but the reality is that even if the goal is the next Thomas Jefferson, we might instead raise his chef or driver, and if they are good people, happy and resilient, then that is okay too

[choirfarm]

I'm betting your sons could get a free ride at cc.. I was just looking at our cc. For low income there are TONS of scholarships. PLUS.. there are academic scholarships if your ACT is 25 or above... I'm guessing that your boys could score that if what you are doing with TOG is any indication at all. I know several kids going to our cc working temporary jobs: college bookstore, tutoring center ( I bet your boys might be good at that too!), some work at our local downtown little bitty restaurants.. I have a college student that takes care of our animals when we go on vacation or to visit relatives.. One of my friends have sons that run their own lawn care service.. So they mow elderly people's lawns.. They are going to our local cc as well. Don't despair!!!

[Mommyfaithe]

Tibbie, what does your husband do for a living? What is his job?

 

My boys are all 12 and under so take this for what it's worth. Dh works for himself. He is a blue collar worker. he does heating, a/c, electrical, construction and does all around handyman stuff. He literally can fix anything in a house. No exaggeration. We are equally blessed because in the 9 years that he has been working on his own he has never had a day where he wakes up and has no work. That is huge.

 

We have talked about this extensively. We feel we will be happy with whatever our boys decide for their future career. BUT they will be taught everything my husband can teach them. My 12 year old goes to work with DH at least 3 times a month. When he is 13 he will go with dh at least one day of week. Between all of his school and work he will be busy.

 

We want our boys to know everything possible that dh can teach them. That way they have options. They can choose to work in that field and put themselves through college and take care of any family that they have or they can choose to go permenantly in that field. Regardless if they choose to become an accountant they will be able to save themseles thousands by fixing their own home.

 

DH will teach them and apprentice them, they of course will have to get licensed when the time comes.

 

I also want them to learn a strong work ethic young. DH grew up on a farm, he has amazing work ethic. The guy gets up everyday rain or shine, sick or depressed and hustles. I want my boys to learn that. Not sure if that is teachable at this point.

 

We are blue collar people and my husband specializes in HVAC and water treatment. We are a bit further along in the kid raising. My girls and boys have all worked in our business learning ALL aspects including the business end, customer service, balancing checkbooks, filing, etc.

 

The boys start out in the field with dh at 16. I find they are antsy at this age and need real outside, hands on HARD work. they do everything with dh....plumbing rough-ins, boiler installs, A/C systems, fix kitchen faucets etc. As trade schools come up, we send them. I have found these classes really open their horizpns to what is out there in all kinds of fields...being a company rep, teacher, what makes a class good or bad, engineering, logic skills, troubleshooting, being observant etc.

 

This is not your average High School coursework, and we pay them so they can save for college. My boys could just NOT sit at a table in their pajamas studying Latin and Logic all day. i tried...they got depressed. This was the answer.....

 

The boys still manage abou 3 hours a night plus Saturday for study time. I find they are much more focused because they are ready to settle down and read. Tired bodies:D

 

I know this is not the solution for everyone, or even most people, but if you know any trades people you may want to ask about apprenticeships. In some states, this is difficult due to labor laws if it is not a family member or a family owned business.

 

My older son chose not to come into the family business....but he now has all kinds of skills he can use anywhere. He can use all sorts of tools, fix pretty much anything and he knows how to be a businessman.

My next son is fascinated by Water treatment and environmental solutions. He will probably study engineering in that type of field. He wants to open his own business under ours....specializing in water treatment. We will help him do this, but he still has to complete college courses. He will take some of his coursework online...some in person. It is not a race to the finish, because he is already working, supporting himself and saving money for college. He may not have the regular college "experience", but he didn't have the "regular" school experience either. I guess we are just not "regular" people. :D

 

I lost a lot of sleep and a lot of fingernails getting to a place where I could let go of the norm...and just focus on what is good for us as a family and best for our kids. My dd's both had "college" experiences which seemed to hurt them rather than help them. They could have done their degrees without the level of drinking, carousing, immorality etc. that they were exposed to....which is NOT part of daily life ANYWHERE but on college campuses.

 

Older ds did not WANt to be on a campus...and no begging or pleading from me would make him change his mind. He just was not comfortable with what goes on....and he didn't want any part of that lifestyle that he saw his friends fallig into. Yes, these are smart kids, on scholarships, athletes etc., but there is an underlying current of PARTY. I am sure these kids will go on to have promising futures and careers....and I am sure my kids will do well too....They are just taking different paths.

 

Anyway, didn't want to write an entire book...just wanted to say that 16-18 year old kids need REAL things to do. Try to find REAL work and REAL profits in that work...whether it be money or experience or both for their future. Having man sized kids being home ALL the time can drive any Mamma crazy....and is not especially good for the boys either.

 

Faithe

[AuntieM]

Tibbie I get it. I have 3 adult children, and I am very happy with the people they are, and the jobs they have. (Well I would like my DD to continue her education more, but she is self supporting) But with that said they are more Blue Colllar, than Thomas Jefferson. That isn't a bad thing, most people do not change the world.

I am also very pragmatic about college after seeing so many of their peers spend 6-8 years getting a degree, that isn't changing their earning power, and in some cases, they can't even find jobs. We are probably in the upper range financially, and we were dilligent about saving for retirement, and as much as I love my kids, I hear stories of people spending their future and going into massive debt so their kids can go find themselves, and cringe. I can understand if the child is sure, and a program is rare, but overall I think most colleges are overpriced, and in some ways a scam. State schools and community colleges can provide most of the same opportunities. As for working I am right there with you, and I think we as parents are overprotective, and have shielded kids trying to give them better lives, that we might be getting unintended consequences. For me I try, and sometimes fail, at a balance between education and life skills. We all have snowflakes, because they are all one of a kind, but the reality is that even if the goal is the next Thomas Jefferson, we might instead raise his chef or driver, and if they are good people, happy and resilient, then that is okay too

 

I really love what you have said here. It is thoughtful, wise, and appreciated.

[Cassy]

I really love what you have said here. It is thoughtful, wise, and appreciated.

 

:iagree: Loved it. It made a lot of sense to me.

 

Cassy

[OrdinaryTime]

Tillie,

Bottom line: I want her to recognize that there is dignity in honest work of all kinds, to be a well-educated but not a snobby person, to be able to relate to all kinds of people, and to have an interesting mental life no matter whether she has a very intellectual job or not. I want her to be able to be both self-sufficient and interdependent. A good education toward a white collar life is one way of heading toward that. But if she ends up being a blue collar person, I will respect her just as much, and I won't consider her education to have been a waste if it informs her life as I am sure that it will.

 

:iagree:This is how I was raised, well below the poverty line. I'm from a large family (seven kids) where mom stayed home (homeschooling off and on depending on each kid's educational needs) and my dad was a Catholic school teacher and part-time farmer. I was babysitting by 11, busing tables illegally at 13, and then worked at least 20 hours a week until I graduated college (two years early and summa cum laude). At age 13, I was responsible for all my own clothes, spending money, then gas and car insurance as soon as I was 16.

 

It was hard work, but I never resented it. We were in it together as a family, and everyone worked together for the good of the whole family. My parents were very open with us about money, or the lack thereof.:tongue_smilie: They put a high value on mom being home with us and let us know what that cost the family financially; we understood and truly appreciated our mom being with us and were happy to have to work a little harder if it meant we spent our lives actually being together. Every night after grace, we'd all chant, "All for one and one for all!" A deep spirit of togetherness pervaded our daily grind. I think this is vital to help keeping teens from resenting having to take a harder path in high school and college.

 

Also, while we were definitely financially poor, my parents made it clear that it didn't mean we had to be intellectually poor, even if we might not all follow the traditional ideal of a college-bound high school prep course. The development of life of the mind and the formation of deep character was my parents' goal for us - and they never let us forget it! I think this spirit of curiousity and searching for truth and beauty goes a long way to providing a solid basis for a kid, even if they do not get to study in the traditional progression. From your posts here, (I've been reading for about a year) I think your boys have recieved that in spades! Plus a very solid actual high school education. Rejoice in that!

 

As for what path to take now, obviously your and our husband know best, but I'm all for thinking outside the box. My dad worked really closely with all of us kids in our family during 9 and 10th grades to develop a game plan (and some back-up plans) for the rest of high school and college. First, we did a lot of talking and job shadowing. The counseling wasn't about particular subject we wanted to study, but what kind of work we wanted to do later. Do you like desk work or more active, manual labor or something in-between? Do you like to be with lots of people, some, as alone as possible? He would show us charts and numbers about different fields and how hard it was to get a job in that field and how much it cost to be educated for such a job. Then we'd start job shadowing the fields we thought might interest us. Overall, this plan of attack really helped most of us not waste any money on education in field we wouldn't eventually enjoy working in. While it is nice not to have to decide on a major early and keep your options open, some of us can't afford it.

 

Once we had a plan, dad made every one of us start CC at 16. Our state had a dual-enrollment program that made all the classes and books free. So each of us took as many credits as we could academically handle for the next two years. If we planned on transferring to a four year institution, we already knew what schools we were looking into and had talked with them about credit transfers. If they didn't take the CC credits, well, we were going somewhere else. (Though we actually never ran into this problem.) Planning ahead to really maximize every credit helped limit any wasted time or money. Also, while some of us went on to get 4 year degrees and graduate degrees, several of my siblings went into technical certification programs, where they had Associates degrees and program certifications, usually in healthcare related fields (nuclear medicine and MRI radiology thus far). Since they started at 16, these siblings were working by 19, debt free, and making more than me and my liberal arts degrees. At the same time, my family did support my decision to get a liberal arts degree because that was who I was and I was getting it as cheaply as possible while still striving to get the best intellectual development I could afford. And they knew I was going into it with my eyes open about what it took to be independent. There was a good balance between practicality, respect for education for its own sake, and the needs for each individual kid in my parents' approach that I really admire.

 

Personally, I would start looking around for options. I would highly suggest looking into what your state might offer as far as dual enrollement for high schoolers. I had to enroll in my public school to get the free money in high school, but I never had to step foot in the building. If you aren't familiar with the public school system, you might not be aware of what kind of offereing they have for college. Also, you could do the FASFA form and figure out how much financial aid might be available to your boys. Start looking at tuition rates with them and start trying to figure out a plan. The early the better because you have more time to explore options.

 

I'm sorry this is long and rambling. I just wanted to share my experience of growing up in a low-income family that also valued the life of the mind. My DH, who came from a wealthier, East Coast family and went to an all-boys prep school that cost his family more for one year than my whole college education, was sort of horrified when he first heard about my family's often inventive approach to education. (You mean, you might not just go to a four-year college right out of high school??? The horror!) Now he thinks the traditional plan is probably the more risky choice these days!

[MedicMom]

I don't think its all or nothing. DH was homeschooled and at 16 went to work for a friend doing construction. He has a degree as well, but chose to stay in construction and learn electric and plumbing. While that isn't his career now, it certainly comes in handy and saves us a lot of money. While he wasn't expected to pay his familys bills, he did pay rent at 16 and bought all of his own things. I grew up middle to upper middle class and my parents wanted me focusing on school, and did not let me hold a job until I was in college. I have a BA from a private college and did some graduate work...and now my husband and I have the same career. Different paths, same ending. I think working is valuable, especially if extra income is needed. And as others said, babysitting while you work may be necessary too. Being part of a family means helping out where needed.

[5kidsforME]

We are blue collar people and my husband specializes in HVAC and water treatment. We are a bit further along in the kid raising. My girls and boys have all worked in our business learning ALL aspects including the business end, customer service, balancing checkbooks, filing, etc.

 

The boys start out in the field with dh at 16. I find they are antsy at this age and need real outside, hands on HARD work. they do everything with dh....plumbing rough-ins, boiler installs, A/C systems, fix kitchen faucets etc. As trade schools come up, we send them. I have found these classes really open their horizpns to what is out there in all kinds of fields...being a company rep, teacher, what makes a class good or bad, engineering, logic skills, troubleshooting, being observant etc.

 

This is not your average High School coursework, and we pay them so they can save for college. My boys could just NOT sit at a table in their pajamas studying Latin and Logic all day. i tried...they got depressed. This was the answer.....

 

The boys still manage abou 3 hours a night plus Saturday for study time. I find they are much more focused because they are ready to settle down and read. Tired bodies:D

 

I know this is not the solution for everyone, or even most people, but if you know any trades people you may want to ask about apprenticeships. In some states, this is difficult due to labor laws if it is not a family member or a family owned business.

 

My older son chose not to come into the family business....but he now has all kinds of skills he can use anywhere. He can use all sorts of tools, fix pretty much anything and he knows how to be a businessman.

My next son is fascinated by Water treatment and environmental solutions. He will probably study engineering in that type of field. He wants to open his own business under ours....specializing in water treatment. We will help him do this, but he still has to complete college courses. He will take some of his coursework online...some in person. It is not a race to the finish, because he is already working, supporting himself and saving money for college. He may not have the regular college "experience", but he didn't have the "regular" school experience either. I guess we are just not "regular" people. :D

 

I lost a lot of sleep and a lot of fingernails getting to a place where I could let go of the norm...and just focus on what is good for us as a family and best for our kids. My dd's both had "college" experiences which seemed to hurt them rather than help them. They could have done their degrees without the level of drinking, carousing, immorality etc. that they were exposed to....which is NOT part of daily life ANYWHERE but on college campuses.

 

Older ds did not WANt to be on a campus...and no begging or pleading from me would make him change his mind. He just was not comfortable with what goes on....and he didn't want any part of that lifestyle that he saw his friends fallig into. Yes, these are smart kids, on scholarships, athletes etc., but there is an underlying current of PARTY. I am sure these kids will go on to have promising futures and careers....and I am sure my kids will do well too....They are just taking different paths.

 

Anyway, didn't want to write an entire book...just wanted to say that 16-18 year old kids need REAL things to do. Try to find REAL work and REAL profits in that work...whether it be money or experience or both for their future. Having man sized kids being home ALL the time can drive any Mamma crazy....and is not especially good for the boys either.

 

Faithe

 

 

This is what we are aiming for! So your kids only do 3 hours a night plus Saturdays? How does that work? Do you feel like it is enough time?

 

We also are paying ds 12. We are trying to show all the kids that if you start saving now, you will have x amount of dollars to work with.

[Tarreymere]

If your sons really want to go to college there is no reason why they can't. I put myself through college as a single mom of two while working full time and receiving no child support, no help from my family and no public assistance. I took out some student loans and worked for the rest while paying rent and bills. I don't understand why two healthy young men with no dependents can't manage the same thing.

 

If you can't help them financially, then let them know. If they really want a degree they can find a way to make it happen but it means that they will have to want it badly enough and be willing to work hard enough to make it happen. And they most likely will need to take out student loans.

 

Personally, I'm not going to beat myself up over not being able to give my kids a free four year vacation. I went to college alongside any number of younger people who took their advantages for granted and didn't appreciate the money their parents were spending on them. You've given them a great education. You don't have to pay for college. It's nice that you want to. But it isn't worth feeling so upset with yourself over.

 

As for a job for you, I know someone mentioned babysitting. Maybe you could look into being a foster parent or even doing respite foster care. You might even like being a family living provider for mentally challenged adults.

 

Good luck. I know how hard it is to want so much more for our kids than we can give them.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Rainefox

[TravelingChris]

We are not blue collar people; we are considered white collar. But the economy is hard on us, as well. We are paying room, board, books and miscellaneous for our college going daughter. We are currently having to pay for food, insurance, and extra utilities used for our son. The government has become slower to pay and that affects our cash flow. Our son tried for months to find a job in your area and he didn't. Now he is trying here.

 

We have had to tell our youngest daughter that some things we could afford for our eldest at her age we can't afford for her. Every time I even think about getting a part time job, I have another health complication which seems to be God's idea that I need to take it easier.

 

I just want to agree with others that while your kids can't work regularly outside the home, picking up odd jobs might be part of the way they can earn money. Snow shoveling, lawn mowing, gutter cleaning, pruning and collecting branches, etc, etc. Other things suggested are good too- have them do things to save money or at least to take over some jobs your dh does at home so he can either work longer himself or have a bit of a break.

 

This economy really s-cks and there are so many of us with young people who are either unable to find work or with slightly older ones, unable to find work commensurate with their skills and so have to do things like fast food work with college degrees.

[sewingmama]

OP, I think you're being a bit hard on yourself. Yes, you lived on your own at 17 years old, but that is really not ideal for the vast majority of teens.

 

:iagree:

 

My mother was kicked out of home at 16 with her sister who was 15. It did not work out well for them at all and they were actually pretty responsible girls - they got jobs, didn't party etc. It affected their whole life span in terms of opportunites and financial security.

 

Her younger brothers were allowed to live at home and continue their education until their 20's -they have done much better with their lives - gotten better jobs, married better and were more financially secure.

 

I was raised by a single mother who could not afford to give me any money for anything. I had my first job at 16 and always had a job after that. The problem was though although I got into University and tried to get a degree I was never able to finish it - I HAD to have a full-time job and the hours of the job and the University were not compatible and in Australia there are very few flexible learning options (no night school, very few online course/degrees) so I had to keep deferring my studies to work. In the end I got married and moved overseas so that put an end to me getting a degree. I really, really wished I could have stayed at home, not had to work (or only part-time) and was able to get that degree. It's much harder when you are older, married (and your DH moves frequently with his job) and you have kids (with special needs that you HS).

 

I agree your boys could have more responsibility but you really are giving them a special gift for the future by allowing them to focus solely on their studies.

 

Keep in mind that Asian kids are very rarely required to have jobs while they are in school - their No.1 'job' is student -maybe this is why they score so high on their tests -they are not distracted by outside time commitments. Most people would say Asians have a pretty good work ethic.

Edited January 26, 2012 by sewingmama

[Catwoman]

I think I'm on a few people's bad lists lately, but I hope I won't be bashed to pieces. I see it as my duty to homeschool my sons if there are no better opportunities for them, and there aren't, so I'll keep going.

 

I just wondered if there were any others struggling to pretend they are middle-class Ivy League types raising children of privilege when they are really just one step from poverty and wishing their boys could go to work.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm not in your situation, but I understand why you are feeling as you do. You're in a particularly tough spot, because your boys can't find work even if they want to get jobs, so you're pretty much in a lose/lose situation right now.

 

I wish I had some advice for you, because your frustration is oozing through your post, but all I can do is give you some :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: and remind you that it doesn't make you a bad mom to wish your kids could contribute financially to the household. It's not a case of you being greedy or lazy or selfish; it's the reality of needing the money.

 

I haven't read the other responses to this thread, but I sincerely hope that no one is judging you at all harshly for having posted this thread. I think your points are completely valid, and I wish I had some ideas for you.

[Osmosis Mom]

I was just contemplating this today in regards to ds 16. I have told him that if he hasn't buckled up by age 18, the he is out of here. He feels so entitled. Both dh and I were -and are- very focused and goal oriented and obviously got excellent grades and worked to get perfection. This child is so laid back, has no goals, and does so little school work it can't really be called work, but more compliance to get me off his back.

 

I have always wanted nothing but the highest education for my children, but I am starting to let go of that idea for him (happening under my care and under my roof). I am starting to feel stronger and stronger that he needs to work or apprentice instead of goofing off and that possibly at some point our aspirations and ambitions will start rubbing off on him (we are a very academic family and while he is smart then he is also lazy).

 

Today I had him cancel the cc course we had paid for. He didn't really, underlining my point of entitlement. Reading the book Boys Adrift is also not helping his case for sympathy!!

 

I should add that his paternal grandparents were blue collar workers who had to leave school after 7th grade to support their siblings, thus the drive in dh to do academics.

[Elinor Everywhere]

However, if she became an electrician, for instance, she would have a more interesting life because she likes books. She would have an easier time starting and running her own business because she knows math and because we have talked about practical things of life a lot. She would be able to talk with ANYONE and be respected and respectable. No matter what she does, her education will not be wasted. She doesn't have to become a college professor to be a good, upright, respectable, well-rounded, educated person.

 

Bottom line: I want her to recognize that there is dignity in honest work of all kinds, to be a well-educated but not a snobby person, to be able to relate to all kinds of people, and to have an interesting mental life no matter whether she has a very intellectual job or not. I want her to be able to be both self-sufficient and interdependent. A good education toward a white collar life is one way of heading toward that. But if she ends up being a blue collar person, I will respect her just as much, and I won't consider her education to have been a waste if it informs her life as I am sure that it will.

 

I love this! I'm from a white-collar family and we have a son who is probably (but not necessarily) headed towards a blue-collar job. We've talked about why he has to take Latin, piano, etc., and your post is exactly how I feel.