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Can I get into all of those topics? No! Because my knowledge is limited. And I am smart enough to know that I don’t know what she needs to know.

 

Wow. What a ringing endorsement of being the product of a school.

 

"I went through 13 years of school and didn't learn enough to teach it to my kids."

 

:confused:

 

Tara

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The author used the word "logic" in her essay.

 

That's when I started giggling.

 

You know..the whole thing about the stages in WTM..you know..the deeper elements of moving through rhetoric & proof...

 

I really enjoy that chapter of WTM and what it stands for.

 

She said she couldn't "get past the logic" - and I giggled..because..well..I kinda thought..."Ya, she probably couldn't get past the logic stage.."

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Audrey's comment made me smile but YOURS. oh, yours made me LAUGH!

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That woman is a f**king joke and I really feel sorry for her children. :glare:

 

I hate public school for my children because other parents can't bring up their children properly. When a SIX year old boy is calling the girls in his class S E X Y you know theres a problem. When the same 6 year old boy and his friends are kicking, hitting with sticks and SPITTING on 6 y.o girls you know there is a BIG problem.

 

Hmm maybe this lady and the parents of the brats at DD's old school belong to the same self-absorbed club... :glare:

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She is right about me. I am arrogant and like everyone, have moments of idiocy. But in my opinion, in my decidedly non-idiot moments, the ones we need to worry about on the ones oblivious to the fact that they are being arrogant idiots. Those ones are dangerous. :001_smile:

Edited by kijipt
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I laugh when I read diatribes like hers. Don't make me pull out my papers and measure up with hers, because I guarantee you right now that hers are going to look mighty meek next to mine. I got that crap from a ps teacher in my town once. She's oh-so-sorry she ever did that.

 

I only appear arrogant because I am right, I am smarter than her, I am more qualified than her, and she is just another simpering whiny ps parent who thinks that years spent learning how to make a bulleting board, manage behaviour problems and turn on an overhead projector qualify someone to educate a human being. She probably also believes that phonics don't work, that Everyday Math is a production of genius and that contemporary textbooks are veritable fonts of objective facts.

 

Oh.... I think I just laughed up my lunch.

 

Love this! :iagree:

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I have no interest in engaging the conversation over there, but I'm amused by some of the comments, which seem to be grasping at straws. Now we're at fault because the materials we use are too standards-based? Bwahahahaha! No, silly, that's one of the reasons I'm NOT homeschooling, because I believe standards-based education is wrong-headed. From where I'm sitting I can see my Right Start Math and The Writer's Jungle materials. They're about as far from standards-based as it gets. And of course textbook and curriculum companies are for-profit. Curriculum development is mostly a for-profit endeavor. Does that commenter really believe that schools buy their texts from non-profits? LOL.

 

The argument that some of the parents most needed by the school system are pulling out is important to consider. Yes, I would like to be involved in trying to make improvements. But that doesn't mean my children need to be sacrificial lambs to the current, broken system. For now my involvement is limited to my vote. Once I've seen my children well-educated to the point at which we mutually agree that they should enter public or private school, my intention is to return my teaching-credentialed self to the workforce, and focus on other people's kids. But for now, my kids get my attention, along with the attention of numerous other highly qualified adults: art teachers, marine biologists, librarians, several museum educators, farmers, nature center educators, swim instructors, gymnastic coaches, music teacher, etc. Selfish? Perhaps. But that's the biological imperative of parenting. :D

 

And for the record, my qualifications would stand up to anyone's scrutiny. Really, anyone's. I wouldn't hesitate to discuss my fitness to teach with Arne Duncan himself. But I'd really rather have a nice long lunch with Diane Ravitch instead! ;)

Edited by jplain
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The argument that some of the parents most needed by the school system are pulling out is important to consider. Yes, I would like to be involved in trying to make improvements. But that doesn't mean my children need to be sacrificial lambs to the current, broken system. For now my involvement is limited to my vote. Once I've seen my children well-educated to the point at which we mutually agree that they should enter public or private school, my intention is to return to my teaching-credentialed self to the workforce, and focus on other people's kids. But for now, my kids get my attention, along with the attention of numerous other highly qualified adults: art teachers, marine biologists, librarians, several museum educators, farmers, nature center educators, swim instructors, gymnastic coaches, music teacher, etc. Selfish? Perhaps. But that's the biological imperative of parenting. :D

 

And for the record, my qualifications would stand up to anyone's scrutiny. Really, anyone's. I wouldn't hesitate to discuss my fitness to teach with Arne Duncan himself. But I'd really rather have a nice long lunch with Diane Ravitch instead! ;)

Talk about a Borg mindset. That somehow, anyone owes the ps system their children and themselves to better the group endeavour!

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Homeschooling is growing and I suspect we will all see much more of this type of thing. I have had several teachers tell me that between homeschool, charters and privates they feel more and more the public schools are struggling to keep high performing students.

 

 

The public school teacher in my Sunday School group (majority of us being homeschoolers) just commented this weekend that most of her students are living in poverty and she has no good kids because the good ones are all pulled out to be homeschooled or to go to a private school. Her words. She is frustrated and this is only her second year with a class of her own. She is teaching the same grade, but she didn't know that until about 45 days before school started.

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Her arguments aren't much different than what I heard last night. One lady made it clear that she thought it was wrong that cyber schooled kids are offered a laptop and new books. "There should be a fee" and "I send my kid to public school so that the school gets more money...cyber school steals money from the district" Not when the district never got money for my kid in the first place, as he was always home school or private schooled. In fact, we are doing the overrun district a favour and also saving the state money as the cyber school uses less money and does more. I'm pretty sure this lady's kid is in one of the nicer towns nearby, not here in the city where safety is a big issue and school really is just crowd controlled babysitting.

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If students fail to perform, the schools themselves struggle with teaching academics, and general behaviors are a problem ... um ... isn't that the fault of the teacher and the school? Who do you blame now?

 

Oh yeah, the parents again. Go figure. As long as the teacher does not have to be accountable, then we don't have any problems with the academic structure. ROFLOL Our fault if they fail at school, and our fault if they fail at home. :D Most Excellent Dude! (quoting Bill and Ted)

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I searched through the blog and the blog 2 behind this one is about her daughter's first week of pre-school (the daughter is 3) and how successfully they detached from each other. And how that's a good thing.

 

I think she may have some issues with detaching from her 3-year-old child and is unable to research homeschooling at this juncture because it might make her want to do it, and keep her 3 year old attached instead of detached.

 

That might have more to do with her blog post than us (as the general homeschooler).

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I zipped over and read some comments.

 

What I don't understand is the idea that you should send your child to ps, and then hs in the evenings. When is the child to have down time? I know some parents afterschool, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that my child would spend all day in ps, and then try and cram in what we do for hsing in the evenings.

 

There's just no way that's feasible, at least for our family. And if ps is such a great educational advantage, one would think that it wouldn't be needed.

 

"Give us your child during the day, make up for our failings at night." Somehow, I just don't see that being a positive. How is that better than hsing?

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She's so filled with peace and love...not.

 

Ever get the feeling some people are complainer / haters:confused:

 

I imagine she blogged her vitriol against anyone who chose not to follow her breast or bottle, crib or co-sleep, early solids or delayed, potty training or general parenting plan.

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Who is that Zach person? How irritating! I particularly love how we should teach our children to deal with despair...by sending them to public school?! Silly me, I'm under the assumption that most parents send their children to ps to learn, not fix the problems there. I don't understand why he thinks children can solve the problems of the ps system when adults can't even figure it out!

 

Just last week I was talking to another mom. She told me how her high schoolers come home and tell her how other students made the teacher cry. Kids get up and walk out of class whenever they feel like it. And we are supposed to live in a good district. Somehow I don't see how sending my child to ps will fix those problems.

 

And if your kid isn't learning in ps? Simple! Make him to EXTRA homework at night! :lol: And teach them what? To waste most of their entire day for what exactly? I still don't get that. I still boggles my mind that people are so naive to believe learning can only happen within the magical walls of a building that is the public school. I hope my dc are finding out that learning happens every day no matter where you are or how old you are!

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I think that "Zach" is the original blogger.

 

I also have a master's degree...

 

Well, I do not have any degree.

 

I am however, still happy with my decision to hs my son. He is 11 and would be in the 6th grade in public school...so we are on our 7 year of 'official' homeschooling.

 

Oh and I also think I am smarter than that blogger. My arrogance perhaps?

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I don't think most of what's there has anything to do with intelligence. It's mostly people speaking from their experience. Yes, I think most of the experience is pretty limited but shucks, I think I'd rather share my experience so they can learn then go in guns blazing.

 

I've been kind of following your responses, and I must say that you do make a sound, logical, and civilized argument. :001_smile:

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Well, I do not have any degree.

 

I am however, still happy with my decision to hs my son. He is 11 and would be in the 6th grade in public school...so we are on our 7 year of 'official' homeschooling.

 

Oh and I also think I am smarter than that blogger. My arrogance perhaps?

And I don't care that you don't have a degree--I just think it's funny how they seem to think that having a master's degree is some sort of magical pass to knowing what's best. I have one too, and it qualifies me to do my job at work, not to judge others' choices.

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This was hilarious! I may have taken her more seriously if she had actually done the research she mentioned she had planned to do. It is difficult to seriously consider the opinions of one who admits she did not research the topic she is criticizing. Perhaps she would have sounded less ignorant had she researched home education, but as it stands, she is simply parroting the opinions of other ignorant people who don't want their opinions influenced or changed by evidence they don't want to recognize. Arrogance? One example of arrogance is writing a blog entry on a topic on which the author admits having no facts. In her case, perhaps arrogant ignorance is bliss.

 

:iagree:

 

Not only does she admit she refused to conduct any research on her blog topic, but it also appears she hasn't had the singular pleasure of enrolling her children in public school yet. Her eldest will not go to kinder until next year, from what I can tell. So she is completely ignorant about her topic, from the perspectives of both research and personal experience. I love it when people talk out of their bottoms.

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:iagree:

 

Not only does she admit she refused to conduct any research on her blog topic, but it also appears she hasn't had the singular pleasure of enrolling her children in public school yet. Her eldest will not go to kinder until next year, from what I can tell. So she is completely ignorant about her topic, from the perspectives of both research and personal experience. I love it when people talk out of their bottoms.

 

Zach mentioned homeschooling being a safe choice. I've been homeschooling 8 years, it never has seemed like a safe choice. I don't get that. Safe would be sticking ds on a bus at 6:45 a.m. and sending him off to the local middle school. Maybe I'm the exception, because I think homeschooling is closer to the edge than that. I'm finding myself quite exceptional today in many of the preconceived notions of homeschooling. Maybe I am special, because golly, I'm worth it (feeling a bit Stuart Smalley here).

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:lol: That just takes the cake! :lol:

 

I wonder if this poor, uninformed woman knows what a fool she's making herself out to be. I almost feel sorry for her.

 

Almost. :lol:

 

For full disclosure, I was quite the expert on child rearing before I actually had children.

 

:rolleyes:

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Zach mentioned homeschooling being a safe choice. I've been homeschooling 8 years, it never has seemed like a safe choice. I don't get that. Safe would be sticking ds on a bus at 6:45 a.m. and sending him off to the local middle school.

 

Yep. Safe is following the herd and doing the norm. Which I do, because I send dd17 to school, so I am not making rude accusations here.

 

Tara

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:iagree:

 

Not only does she admit she refused to conduct any research on her blog topic, but it also appears she hasn't had the singular pleasure of enrolling her children in public school yet. Her eldest will not go to kinder until next year, from what I can tell. So she is completely ignorant about her topic, from the perspectives of both research and personal experience. I love it when people talk out of their bottoms.

 

 

Oh. One of those. :glare:

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I don't think most of what's there has anything to do with intelligence. It's mostly people speaking from their experience. Yes, I think most of the experience is pretty limited but shucks, I think I'd rather share my experience so they can learn then go in guns blazing.

 

Dawn, your responses have been a joy to read. I wish I could compose thoughtful, civil comments like yours. I've refrained from posting over there because I tend to get too emotional about this topic. It's nice to have somebody like you representing us! :)

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Dawn, your responses have been articulate, logical...just excellent. I can tell you are rattling her cage when she falls back on educator-ese:

I see how what you are advocating, “rejecting the norm” as changing the norm, may work in theory, however, what happens is that a lot homeschoolers merely run to a privatized-home-education-organization/materials, which is the idea that the Private will save the Public by dissociating with the Public. It reenforces this idea, it doesn’t change it.

 

Which, a distrust of Public in favor of Private solutions, was the desired outcome when for-profit entities set their eyes on Public Education two-decades ago.

 

A lot, though not all, of “home schooling” is merely Privatized Education. For-profit packages, dvd, cd, etc.

 

And again, there’s nothing that a homeschooling situation can do that a public educated student can’t do, in addition to having the chance to attend a public institution and participate in the WORK of action-democracy (action, because it’s “live” being lived).

 

It sounds like an NEA meeting :lol:

 

ETA: I did notice the responses were from someone named Zach, but I'm assuming it's actually the blogger. Shrug.

Edited by Barb F. PA in AZ
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Her article was about how parents are not qualified to teach their children, but her defense in the comments section seems to be all about how homeschooling parents are failing to uphold democracy. Seems like she realized her article was full of bs and is trying to change the argument.

 

To which I would respond, I do what's best for my kids. That's my right and responsibility as a parent. If public education changes form because "too many" parents choose alternatives, so be it.

 

Tara

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Her article was about how parents are not qualified to teach their children, but her defense in the comments section seems to be all about how homeschooling parents are failing to uphold democracy. Seems like she realized her article was full of bs and is trying to change the argument.

 

To which I would respond, I do what's best for my kids. That's my right and responsibility as a parent. If public education changes form because "too many" parents choose alternatives, so be it.

 

Tara

 

Exactly. Voting with our feet.

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Apparently, 'voting with our feet' isn't allowed. The only right way to make any statement is to work from within, regardless of the detriment to our children.

 

Am I the only one that ever feels like what's *really* being said is, "Its good enough for OUR kids, so it should be good enough for YOURS too!" ? That, b/c we choose differently, its considered a slight to those that don't? As if its a slur on their parenting?

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Apparently, 'voting with our feet' isn't allowed. The only right way to make any statement is to work from within, regardless of the detriment to our children.

 

Am I the only one that ever feels like what's *really* being said is, "Its good enough for OUR kids, so it should be good enough for YOURS too!" ? That, b/c we choose differently, its considered a slight to those that don't? As if its a slur on their parenting?

 

 

Oh yes Imp! I've actually heard that line before.

 

My standard response is that I don't lay my children on the alter of sacrifice in order to save someone else's ego.

 

People are self-centered and it's very acceptable in today's culture. So, they only see "moi" in any given situation; they are certain that "moi's feelings, moi's opinions, moi's ego" are the only considerations for all others. I've encounter epidemic narcissistic behavior. I wish the CDC would do something about it. Obviously, it's spreading by casual contact! :D

 

Faith

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Am I the only one that ever feels like what's *really* being said is, "Its good enough for OUR kids, so it should be good enough for YOURS too!" ? That, b/c we choose differently, its considered a slight to those that don't? As if its a slur on their parenting?

 

Yes, I definitely feel that way, especially when the public school teacher in Sunday school (who will be sending her kids to private Christian school in middle or high school :lol:) goes on and on about how my dd is missing out and "poor little thing," blah, blah, blah. I just let her ramble on as everything she says reveals that she knows little to nothing about present-day homeschooling and I just don't have the time or energy to educate her, too!! :lol: Its great to be prepared with stats or good answers, but usually I feel very little need to defend my choices to anyone except myself and my DH. But, if someone has the need to put me down to make themselves feel better, they can do it on their own time--I'm pretty much just gonna ignore them. ;)

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Oh yes Imp! I've actually heard that line before.

 

My standard response is that I don't lay my children on the alter of sacrifice in order to save someone else's ego.

 

People are self-centered and it's very acceptable in today's culture. So, they only see "moi" in any given situation; they are certain that "moi's feelings, moi's opinions, moi's ego" are the only considerations for all others. I've encounter epidemic narcissistic behavior. I wish the CDC would do something about it. Obviously, it's spreading by casual contact! :D

 

Faith

I'm becoming more and more convinced that narcissists are actually some form of insect or spider, laying eggs in the unwary.

 

Explains why I sleep behind a locked door when MIL is around.

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I didn't look to see which poster, but someone mentioned something to the likes that perhaps it was the guilt of not actually being able to or having the courage to homeschool themselves. They need to justify that this was not their choice. Unfortunately, it leads to ambigous assumptions and condemnation that has no fact base. Ah well, stuipid is as stupid does.

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"And again, there’s nothing that a homeschooling situation can do that a public educated student can’t do, in addition to having the chance to attend a public institution and participate in the WORK of action-democracy (action, because it’s “live†being lived)."

 

Was that really said by the OP? Really? Wow!

 

Saw that quoted here and yeah...just wow!

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"And again, there’s nothing that a homeschooling situation can do that a public educated student can’t do, in addition to having the chance to attend a public institution and participate in the WORK of action-democracy (action, because it’s “live” being lived)."

 

Was that really said by the OP? Really? Wow!

 

Saw that quoted here and yeah...just wow!

 

Given that this woman has a hard time writing a coherent sentence to support a logical argument, it's probably a good thing she isn't going to homeschool her kids. Good thing we all have options to suit our individual needs.

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"And again, there’s nothing that a homeschooling situation can do that a public educated student can’t do, in addition to having the chance to attend a public institution and participate in the WORK of action-democracy (action, because it’s “live†being lived)."

 

 

Say what the what?

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really tempted to go over and comment, "you keep using the word 'arrogant'- You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ..."

 

:lol:

 

I won't though, I'd hate to stir the pot.

 

I am intelligent enough to go through the motions to give my children the less than stellar education I received at public school...the science classes that had labs we did not use, the shiny microscopes we were not taught how to work, the world History class that consisted of serial movies such as Shogun., the AP English class where we wrote like mad (it was the best class I ever had in ps) but did not learn MLS format and only actually read 3 books for- we discussed all the others that would be on the AP Exam...I could do at least that- but I am also intelligent enough to reach for more. I offer my kids much more than I experienced, and when I sense that even my more would not be all that it could be, I out-source..and pay a very pretty penny for those classes.

 

I think what stings the most, is not having arrogant non-homeschoolers treat us like mad idiots, but the assumption that it is a choice we take lightly, like a passing, silly impulse- not as if it were one of the most important and excruciating parenting decisions we have ever made- and not acknowledging the fact that we have spent hundreds of hours agonizing over this decision, researching this decision, and constantly re-evaluating if it continues to be the right decision for each or our children, ourselves, and our family. Not even taking into account the hundreds of hours spent researching materials, courses, teaching methods.

I am not arrogant, if I were less busy, I'd be insulted.

 

pfft.

 

in our school district, I could send my kids to walk down the street to school, without breakfast, the school would feed them, in dirty clothes, the school has washers and dryers to wash dirty clothes and loaner uniforms to lend out while they wash...they would feed them lunch, then they could walk home...and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed. Homeschooling is not the "easy" thing for me to do. :glare:

Edited by Hen Jen
spelling!
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