Do you openly discuss your finances?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not Unsinkable, but perhaps she feels this was unfortunate timing because it was posted at the same time that another thread is going on about how truly broke some people are. Some people are genuinely hurting so if it helps for them to talk about it then why does anyone care if they do?

 

Since people have over and over in this thread talked about how sharing these struggles online is a different situation, I don't know what the problem is. No one is being insensitive.

[Murphy101]

Since people have over and over in this thread talked about how sharing these struggles online is a different situation, I don't know what the problem is. No one is being insensitive.

 

:iagree:

[Murphy101]

I also don't know if I agree about money not being discussed.

Maybe not as bluntly, that's true.

 

But the first question was usually "What do you do for a living?" which boils down to the same roundabout ballpark targeting type of question. Might as well ask what their salary is.

[Kate CA]

For instance, I put a message on my FB page about recently coming back from vacation and I said something like "We had so much fun but it was too short!"

 

A friend who has had a really really really bad financial situation during this past year replies "Well, just be glad you got to have a vacation AT ALL. Some of us don't have the money for that. Sure wish I could have a vacation!"

 

I felt sick to my stomach after that. We are not wealthy by any means but we have escaped much of what people are going through and we are made to feel guilty about it all the time by friends. I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with my comment.

 

:(

 

I think it is very unfortunate that your friend chose to say that. It isn't OK to make someone feel guilty for having the ability to do something nice with their family. Perhaps if I share my own journey it might help to understand why it was said.

 

We have just come off of two years of difficult times. During the really rough days I was mostly "radio silent" on Facebook because I didn't want to drag anyone down. I kept looking to Christ for my strength and He was always there. There was one particular day I was looking through my dear friend's vacation pictures and trying to rejoice with those who rejoice in my heart. I didn't post anything negative, but I sat at the computer and cried. I felt so overcome with sadness that I might never experience this kind of thing again that it just overwhelmed me.

 

Now while I was able to keep it to myself, I can see how others would allow their feelings to take over and post something insensitive. It doesn't make it right, but I can see how it happens. It is just too easy to post a thoughtless comment on Facebook and times are hard for so many people right now.

 

I guess I would just try to let it go and pray for those you love that are hurting. It isn't wrong to vacation and enjoy a nice life and you have nothing to feel guilty about. However, FB is filled with people that are genuinely struggling and obviously your friend is one of them--being sensitive to that isn't a bad thing either. :001_smile:

[Kate CA]

I don't think Heather was complaining about the mention, but rather the implied guilt trip.

 

I didn't respond to the other thread... Maybe I should.

 

I wasn't talking about the Facebook mention when I posted this, but the other thread about being broke.

[Kate CA]

Since people have over and over in this thread talked about how sharing these struggles online is a different situation, I don't know what the problem is. No one is being insensitive.

 

Heather's opening thread did not differentiate between online and in real life. She said this:

 

In my upbringing I was always told it was not polite conversation to discuss your finances with others and it was particularly impolite to "poor mouth it".

 

My family comes from the backwoods of Alabama and were raised in abject poverty (like no shoes, one meal a day if they were lucky, etc.) and they stil never talked about how poor they were.

 

We also were taught not to discuss how much money we make, how much we paid for something, and not to ask others the same things.

 

But it seems like we are in the minority? I am always surprised at how willing people are to tell you how broke they are. And here in Malaysia, everyone asks how much you make, how much you paid for something, etc. Or they brag about it themselves. (...)

 

 

Particularly the last bolded line. Those were not exactly compliments! This exact discussion is going on in the thread I mentioned. You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion, but I do happen to think it was unfortunate timing and I do think it was a tad insensitive.

[Rebookie]

Frankly, I don't have anything to hide. So I don't. *shrugs*

[JennifersLost]

I talk fairly openly about money and I share what I make at various jobs I do when asked because I believe that when people - especially women - share information it empowers us.

 

One of the things I'm willing to be very open about is how I made a very reasonable amount of money through home daycare - a job that is often open to women when no other job is.

 

I'm also willing to share my experiences with writing, publishing and starting a business.

 

I'll talk to people about how we've bought, fixed and sold houses. When it makes sense and when it doesn't.

 

I'll talk to people about how we made the decision to not send our oldest to a university this year, even though it created a huge disturbance in my family, because we realized we could either struggle for the next twelve years and launch four children into life laden with debt (both them and us), or we could have each of them do two years of community college and two years at a university in our province (all of which have to take our CC's credits) for a price we could afford to pay in full.

 

I'll talk to people about how we use rental income, residual income and odd jobs to get buy instead of working "day jobs" and the pros and cons of that.

 

I'll talk about how we drive cross country instead of fly and save all kinds of money and still get great vacations.

 

Information is power. The more we share the more we know.

 

I suspect some in this conversation are talking about bragging - a totally different thing. My way of dealing with that is to be happy for the bragger - well and truly happy for them. I will ooh and ahh over all their purchases, house, cars and vacations with no malice in my heart because it makes them happy. Which makes me happy. Someone who has to tell you about their "things" and purchases has a deep hole somewhere in their heart. If I can fill it just a little by listening to them, then so be it.

[Heather in Neverland]

 

Particularly the last bolded line. Those were not exactly compliments! This exact discussion is going on in the thread I mentioned. You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion, but I do happen to think it was unfortunate timing and I do think it was a tad insensitive.

 

I was unaware of that thread, didn't read it...way too many threads to keep up with them all. I was speaking SPECIFICALLY of what was happening in MY life.

 

Unfortunate timing? Sure. Insensitive? That implies it was intentional. Maybe give me the benefit of the doubt?

[regentrude]

But the first question was usually "What do you do for a living?" which boils down to the same roundabout ballpark targeting type of question. Might as well ask what their salary is.

 

No, not really - two people who answer this question the same way can have incomes differing by vast amounts. knowing the job does not make it possible to make inferences about their income.

[Murphy101]

No, not really - two people who answer this question the same way can have incomes differing by vast amounts. knowing the job does not make it possible to make inferences about their income.

 

I'm not claiming it has any guaranteeable accuracy.

But absolutely people make inferences about it and always have.

[Ginevra]

In my upbringing I was always told it was not polite conversation to discuss your finances with others and it was particularly impolite to "poor mouth it".

 

My family comes from the backwoods of Alabama and were raised in abject poverty (like no shoes, one meal a day if they were lucky, etc.) and they stil never talked about how poor they were.

 

We also were taught not to discuss how much money we make, how much we paid for something, and not to ask others the same things.

 

But it seems like we are in the minority? I am always surprised at how willing people are to tell you how broke they are. And here in Malaysia, everyone asks how much you make, how much you paid for something, etc. Or they brag about it themselves.

 

So is my family just a hold over from the past and we need to get with the "sharing your financial situation" program? Are we just too uptight? I can tell you that only my immediate family knows our true financial situation... not even my best friends know.

 

Maybe I just need to loosen up? :D

 

This is how I was raised, too. I rarely talk money.

I remember when we built our first house and a friend asked me, "How much was your house?" I was like, "How much what?" I was totally flabbergasted that she wanted to know the actual dollars our house cost! :svengo:

 

It would not occur to me in a billion years to ask someone how much their house cost or to freely share the amount of ours.

[MissKNG]

 

 

We also were taught not to discuss how much money we make, how much we paid for something, and not to ask others the same things.

 

:D

 

My parents taught us the same and I get annoyed when I hear people talking about how much this or that cost.

[regentrude]

I'm not claiming it has any guaranteeable accuracy.

But absolutely people make inferences about it and always have.

 

But it does not make sense to infer anything.

I mean, a doctor can be a specialist in a city, or a family doctor in a small rural town. A college professor can make 25k, or 120k (even at the same institution).

 

I have always seen the "what do you do" question as a conversation opener which can tell me something about the person's interests - it has NEVER occured to me to use the answer to find out about their financial situation.

Edited August 9, 2011 by regentrude

[Ginevra]

It is interesting that you wrote this. I, too, feel this underlying current... this unspoken "vibe" I guess... lately because of the economic crisis. Almost like this division between those that have lost much/everything due to the economic downturn and those that haven't.

 

For instance, I put a message on my FB page about recently coming back from vacation and I said something like "We had so much fun but it was too short!"

 

A friend who has had a really really really bad financial situation during this past year replies "Well, just be glad you got to have a vacation AT ALL. Some of us don't have the money for that. Sure wish I could have a vacation!"

 

I felt sick to my stomach after that. We are not wealthy by any means but we have escaped much of what people are going through and we are made to feel guilty about it all the time by friends. I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with my comment.

 

:(

:iagree: I have so been there! I have felt guilty about driving my nice car certain places because of it. I have felt that I should not speak about my recent trip to Alaska with some people because of it. My mother also used to do that to me (the thing your FB buddy did); "Must be nice to just fly off anytime you want," "Must be nice to be able to put mulch around your trees." :confused: Should I never go on a vacation because I know people who couldn't afford to?

[flyingiguana]

I'll only discuss how much things cost if the other person is thinking of buying the same thing I did. And I'll mention if I know of a bargain. Or if something is really overpriced.

 

People do ask how much recent car purchases are and other large ticket items around us and I don't find that uncomfortable because it seems to me they are just gauging how the economy is going and what prices are and what they might have to pay if they have to make a similar purchase. However, I do feel like our new car (well, new to us) is a bit of a "statement" that we have enough money for that sort of thing, which makes me not want to drive it sometimes.

 

However, I'd be uncomfortable discussing income. That seems to be tied too closely to people's self-worth, justifiably or not.

[Rebecca VA]

Wow, I didn't realize this was such a sensitive subject. I don't discuss finances openly, but I agree with JennifersLost -- knowledge is power. So I'm always glad to hear of great bargains, or good opportunities in the job or real estate market, even if the information doesn't really pertain to me. I hate listening to bragging, though, and will change the subject very quickly if the conversation turns into a bragfest.

[BamaTanya]

And I practice that. Mostly.

 

BUT. Dh and I are educators and it's VERY easy for anyone to know how much we make/have made over the years.

 

So, when a single teacher said she couldn't afford to move out on her own and my dh was supporting a family of 6 . . .

 

Or my attorney friend (on salary with a small firm) and her *working* dh and no dc allowed their home to be foreclosed on because they didn't think the payments were *fair* . . .

 

And all the teachers who told me they were jealous of *me* becayse they couldn't afford to stay home with their babies . . . who lived in brand new McMansions . . .

 

Yes. I have at times talked specifics about how *we* do it because I think it's valuable for people to understand that choices affect what we can or can't do. KWIM?

 

Some adults really really don't get it. And I like to point out that they could make other choices and they could do other things . . .

 

I'm not talking about everyone. Just specifically professional friends whose incomes I *knew* who were crying poor. :glare: It kind of made me angry.

 

Many times it was tight for us. Dh lost his teaching at one time and the temporary replacement only paid a fraction. It was scary. It didn't last long and he did have something and I'm thankful.

 

I just think a lot of working people have an "entitlement" view that they should be able to have their cake and eat it too. That their jobs should pay even more. That they should be able to buy any house and go on any vacation and drive any car . . . no matter what.

 

I don't get it. :confused:

 

I am beginning to talk about specifics with my dc. I don't want them to talk about it outside of our immediate family because I do feel it's impolite.

 

I also believe it's part of my job to help them see how you can be thankful for what you have and live within your means (or work to find better means) instead of whining about all the stuff you don't have.

[Lily_Grace]

Yes. I have at times talked specifics about how *we* do it because I think it's valuable for people to understand that choices affect what we can or can't do. KWIM?

 

<snip>

 

I am beginning to talk about specifics with my dc. I don't want them to talk about it outside of our immediate family because I do feel it's impolite.

 

I also believe it's part of my job to help them see how you can be thankful for what you have and live within your means (or work to find better means) instead of whining about all the stuff you don't have.

 

Thank you for pointing that out.

 

My sister and I were talking about this subject a few months ago and we both ended up not knowing how to manage our finances when we became adults because our parents never talked about it. They never talked about their goals, nothing about day to day finances, just the standard parent answer of "we can't afford it" when we'd ask for something. We never heard money talk growing up. We never had steady allowances, never were given any sort of financial education beyond 'save it 'til ya spend it'.

 

As adults we went through several years of learning through our own mistakes - sometimes big mistakes. Being able to talk openly about money now has benefited us both. We get to share that sort of information that keeps us both leading happier lives instead of each making the same mistakes because we don't know any other way.

 

I'm trying really hard with my kids. We went from using the MoneySavvy banks to Familymint.com so that the big kid can practice his mistakes now and see how his budget relates to the family budget. I hope being a lot more open with him will let him start off adulthood a little easier.

[chiguirre]

We also were taught not to discuss how much money we make, how much we paid for something, and not to ask others the same things.

 

 

Yes to not discussing income, but I don't feel at all uncomfortable talking about prices, especially sales or specials or handy tricks to save money. I wouldn't ask someone how much they paid for their house or car, but really, you can look it up with 2 clicks of the mouse anyway, so it's not a big secret.

[Splash]

I was taught to keep quiet about money and never knew how much my father earned or what things like houses and cars cost.

 

As an adult I will talk money and how we've managed some things like adopting 5 kids if people want ideas. We've done a lot of different things to earn the money that I don't think others would think of normally and just want to get their minds thinking outside the box.

 

I find money is a very loaded topic that has a lot of emotions attached to it so I avoid discussions around the topic whenever possible.

[8circles]

I think it is very unfortunate that your friend chose to say that. It isn't OK to make someone feel guilty for having the ability to do something nice with their family. Perhaps if I share my own journey it might help to understand why it was said.

 

We have just come off of two years of difficult times. During the really rough days I was mostly "radio silent" on Facebook because I didn't want to drag anyone down. I kept looking to Christ for my strength and He was always there. There was one particular day I was looking through my dear friend's vacation pictures and trying to rejoice with those who rejoice in my heart. I didn't post anything negative, but I sat at the computer and cried. I felt so overcome with sadness that I might never experience this kind of thing again that it just overwhelmed me.

 

Now while I was able to keep it to myself, I can see how others would allow their feelings to take over and post something insensitive. It doesn't make it right, but I can see how it happens. It is just too easy to post a thoughtless comment on Facebook and times are hard for so many people right now.

 

I guess I would just try to let it go and pray for those you love that are hurting. It isn't wrong to vacation and enjoy a nice life and you have nothing to feel guilty about. However, FB is filled with people that are genuinely struggling and obviously your friend is one of them--being sensitive to that isn't a bad thing either. :001_smile:

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Thank you for sharing that.

[TravelingChris]

First of all, anyone can find out how much we make since it is public record. THere are tables of salary and benefits on the web. I think the worse thing that people can do with today's economy (and this has been true for a number of years) is to stop spending. I don't mean spend what you don't have but to stop spending when you do have means economic disaster for our nation and the world. So if you have the money and the inclination, go on the vacation or buy that car. If anyone who is broke resents that, mark that as ignorance along with envy. Our unemployment problem won't go away until people and companies start spending money. OUr economy won't improve much until the unemployment actually starts dropping and gets to a more reasonable level (5% nationally). We are a long way from there. We will probably be even a longer way from there after the last few days of market dives.

[silliness7]

I've got to agree. I cringed when I read the OP.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I am one who was discussing how broke we are. For me, it just comes to a point when you're so tired of trying to make it look like (or sound like) everything is okay that you just want to scream from the top of a mountain "we are NOT okay!". You just come to a point when you feel the need to be "real".

 

That being said, I would NEVER make someone feel badly for going on vacation, buying a new car, house, you name it. I would never ask someone what they make, how they do their finances or anything of the sort! The only time I've ever made a "feel lucky" type comment was to a friend of mine who was complaining about her photography business and how she wasn't making enough. She had 8-10 sessions a week. I simply stated that she be grateful, because I was lucky to have 2 sessions a month (in the same market - we live 5 min from each other) and she was making FAR more than I!

[Greenmama2]

Here, people have a very different idea of it, though. People here are very, very frugal and they like to discuss how much something cost them. For some, it is like a competition -- how cheap they could get x. But, I think, for most, it is just a part of conversation and people like to point each other to good bargains. For them, to point someone to a good bargain is a friendly gesture -- as in, "I care about you, so here's a money saver for you."

deep.

This is more the general culture here. It would be rude to ask how much someone earns or indeed to volunteer that information but "bargain-hunting" is completely different. It's a complement to admire something and ask where it was purchased (not how much it cost) and a common response is to then boast about how little one paid for it.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I won't ask someone how much money they make. I don't volunteer how much dh gets paid. I won't ask what someone has paid for anything. I will ask where an item was purchased.

 

I will discuss finances with as little detail as possible. Like I don't mind telling anyone we live pay check to pay check. I won't tell you what the numbers on that pay check are.

 

:iagree:

[MominIN]

My husband is a Pastor, so everyone at our church (the people we spend the most time with) know exactly how much we make. It's just the way it is. I think the majority of the people at our church are happy for us when we get to spend money on fun things. But, I'll admit, I sometimes feel guilty.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

No, not really - two people who answer this question the same way can have incomes differing by vast amounts. knowing the job does not make it possible to make inferences about their income.

 

:iagree: Dh is a lawyer. Depending on what kind of law one practices, the incomes can vary greatly!

[silliness7]

True. :D But it was meant to highlight that THEY (the people it was actually about) didn't talk about it. In fact, it was actually quite difficult for me to find that kind of information about my extended family because they don't talk about it.

 

Their opinion was one of "Most people we know are hurting too so why should we talk about our problems?"

 

I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with telling everyone about your finances (even though I was taught it was impolite I am not sure I feel as strongly about it).

 

However, the side effect of this new "openness" is that those who are struggling financially and tell everybody about it get lots of sympathy while those who have escaped the economic downturn (so far) get judged.

 

And my post wasn't about these boards but rather what I am experiencing in real life (and on FB). I guess I was just hurt by my friend's comments.

 

It was wrong what your friend said to you on facebook.

However, I would gladly take a nice vacation (or any vacation) over sympathy. :tongue_smilie:

[mrs.m]

I'll admit that I will talk about it in very general terms. I have no problems giving our get-out-of-debt testimonial (if the topic comes up) and I can do so without being specific about our income. I don't offer the information unless someone is talking about themselves but I know that I have helped people get back on track by talking about our experience.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thank you for pointing that out.

 

My sister and I were talking about this subject a few months ago and we both ended up not knowing how to manage our finances when we became adults because our parents never talked about it. They never talked about their goals, nothing about day to day finances, just the standard parent answer of "we can't afford it" when we'd ask for something. We never heard money talk growing up. We never had steady allowances, never were given any sort of financial education beyond 'save it 'til ya spend it'.

 

As adults we went through several years of learning through our own mistakes - sometimes big mistakes. Being able to talk openly about money now has benefited us both. We get to share that sort of information that keeps us both leading happier lives instead of each making the same mistakes because we don't know any other way.

 

I'm trying really hard with my kids. We went from using the MoneySavvy banks to Familymint.com so that the big kid can practice his mistakes now and see how his budget relates to the family budget. I hope being a lot more open with him will let him start off adulthood a little easier.

 

I think discussing the cost (and opportunity cost) of some things is an important thing to do with our kids. And it is worth also making them aware that not everyone around them shares the same family assets.

 

I signed my son up for a year long swim team recently. We were trying to pick between two teams. Both represented a jump of about four times what we were paying where we previously lived. Then I realized that I'd also missed the extra "registration" amount. When my son saw how much it was going to be, he was willing to forgo swimming altogether. Fortunately for us, I was able to tell him that we did have this in our budget.

 

But I also know what it felt like to have sleepless nights, realizing that no matter how we crunched the numbers, we really couldn't afford to buy a house (given size and location wants) when we moved to the DC area. I cried when I told dh that I thought we should start looking at rentals instead of continuing to look at houses for sale. And I remember having to swallow hard when I saw a classmate's FB post and realized the extra person in the family photos was their nanny and that their house was in a sort of neighborhood that we'd known better than to even look at.

 

My frustration looking at those FB pics wasn't so much anger at my classmate as wondering if we'd been fools for staying in the military. 20 years of service and we can't afford to buy a house after years of postings overseas.

 

It was a real gut check morning for me. I had to keep reminding myself that this is someone I haven't seen in 20 years and that I have no idea what sorrows her life holds (like the other classmate whose teen daughter is fighting cancer). There are plenty who look at me and call me blessed. I've lived all around the world and don't usually put cost as the first consideration for homeschool curriculum. My kids are all healthy. For all of my complaints about long work hours and few vacation days, my dh came home last night. And there are too many Navy families this week who can't say that.

 

I guess that's all just a bit of a ramble to say that I think we need to cut each other a lot more slack and give a lot more grace than we tend to do. Not referring to the OP in particular, but just in general to threads here and things I see in real life. We are all just fallible people, weighted down with all of the baggage we've collected in life. Sometimes we can be uncharitable. That doesn't need to be met with more uncharitability and cutting people out and getting angry.

[Carol in Cal.]

I was thinking about this some more, and I guess I do discuss strategies sometimes with people, and when I do, I give some specific numbers. When I used to work in engineering, I remember going out to lunch with 2 other colleagues in my car that I didn't know very well. They started to compliment my car, which was not new but which I had not had very long, because it had a moon roof which they felt was luxurious. I told them that I had bought it used, and that's why the moon roof was basically free to me, and then I talked about my methods for buying used cars, just chatting. They were sort of mildly interested until I mentioned that we had not purchased a new car for more than 15 years, and that I had never spent more than 5-8K for a car, or had a car payment, or kept a car for less than 7 years in all that time. That really got their attention because they flashed on the contrast with their 'buy new cars every five years' patterns and all of the sudden realized that the savings were considerable.

[edelweiss]

We only discuss financial things within our own family and with some of our extended family. We are blessed with a higher income than many, so I spend time discussing our finances with our children. I think it is important that they realize that we are able to do things, go places, and buy things that many people can't. Our whole area is fairly well-off so my kids tend to be surrounded by people who are in a similar situation. I want to make sure that they realize that not everyone lives this way. However, I forbid them from discussing any of it with anyone else. I also encourage them to downplay their activities/vacations, especially when they are with friends that are not able to afford such things.

 

DH and I did not grow up with money at all (lower middle class or so and under the poverty line at times), so we would feel extremely uncomfortable sharing finances with our extended families. They obviously know that we're doing well when they visit us, but we try to downplay it as much as possible. It makes me uncomfortable at times. I am able to be a little more open with my sister as she is in a similar financial situation. We don't discuss specifics, but I don't mind sharing what we paid for something, etc. if she asks.

 

I have never had anyone directly ask how much my DH makes or how much our house is, but the house info is public record so anyone can look that up. DH's salary isn't because he has his own company, but in general there is a lot more information "out there" for people to find. Even if you want to keep your finances private, it is more and more difficult these days.

[Kari C in SC]

For awhile when we first moved to SC, I didn't say a whole lot about finances. Then I got a bit fed up with "friends" assuming we made lots of money because of things we have. To some close friends, I told them flat out what dh made. Not to boast (nothing to boast about) or even get sympathy. To show them that sometimes people can have big houses and fairly decent cars and not make a ton of money. It is all in how you manage the money you do have. People make all sorts of assumptions based on what they see... when the reality of it all is sometimes something very different. I see nothing wrong with sharing info when there is knowledge that can be gained. Then again, I talk A LOT and I am at a point in my life where very little seems all that important if you say will this matter in 10 years?

[Upward Journey]

I think your friend is just extra-sensitive because of the very hard time she is having, and couldn't hold it in ... if it wasn't you she said that to, it would have been someone else.

 

Plus, some people -- by nature or from being beaten down too much -- cannot rejoice in the good fortune of others. Being in an extremely bad financial situation can cause a huge hole in a person's self esteem. They feel shame, anger, and guilt. They feel desperate. They feel the unfairness of life.

 

:iagree:

We are going through a really rough patch right now w/ dh being unemployed. I have a friend that I truly like on FB but I finally had to hide her status' because I was having trouble not getting angry everytime I read them. I'm happy that they're doing so well right now, really. Her husband works hard and they're a wonderful family, but it's hard when you're struggling financially, not due to poor choices, to have that in your face everyday. At this point, even if my husband were to land a good paying job we'd still have to do without, because our on hand savings has been absolutely decimated.

[4wildberrys]

I think it is very unfortunate that your friend chose to say that. It isn't OK to make someone feel guilty for having the ability to do something nice with their family. Perhaps if I share my own journey it might help to understand why it was said.

 

We have just come off of two years of difficult times. During the really rough days I was mostly "radio silent" on Facebook because I didn't want to drag anyone down. I kept looking to Christ for my strength and He was always there. There was one particular day I was looking through my dear friend's vacation pictures and trying to rejoice with those who rejoice in my heart. I didn't post anything negative, but I sat at the computer and cried. I felt so overcome with sadness that I might never experience this kind of thing again that it just overwhelmed me.

 

Now while I was able to keep it to myself, I can see how others would allow their feelings to take over and post something insensitive. It doesn't make it right, but I can see how it happens. It is just too easy to post a thoughtless comment on Facebook and times are hard for so many people right now.

 

I guess I would just try to let it go and pray for those you love that are hurting. It isn't wrong to vacation and enjoy a nice life and you have nothing to feel guilty about. However, FB is filled with people that are genuinely struggling and obviously your friend is one of them--being sensitive to that isn't a bad thing either. :001_smile:

 

:iagree: Maybe your friend is just having a 'really' bad day or month? Having a little sensitivity on that might help too---even though she hurt your feelings by raining on your happiness about a vacation. It's not fair at all to do that---but judgement goes both ways. I should know-- as the economy has done a number to our finances too and there have been days when I have seen the happy vacation etc. posts from friends and wanted to say the same thing your friend did :001_huh: I'm pretty sure I didn't :confused: but now I feel ashamed if I did because now I know what a jerk I came off as :glare: Then again---it doesn't help that I grew up in a VERY wealthy part of CA, went to VERY expensive private schools full of really rich kids and my family wasn't any of this. And seeing those same people on FB with 'all' they have because of family ties and connections, HUGE trust funds etc. and how hard dh works and how little we have to show causes feelings of dare I say----envy and even discontent and insecurity-----which I hate! Because I have such a wonderful dh and family of my own.

 

My family NEVER discussed finances---and I partly attribute my horrendous non-ability to understand or manage them to this. We are pretty open about our finances--but really only because we live in a TINY town where people are obsessed about who has what, how much you paid for things etc.. There is really nothing worse than having to justify how 'little' you paid for things :glare:

Edited August 9, 2011 by 4wildberrys

[justamouse]

I talk fairly openly about money and I share what I make at various jobs I do when asked because I believe that when people - especially women - share information it empowers us.

 

One of the things I'm willing to be very open about is how I made a very reasonable amount of money through home daycare - a job that is often open to women when no other job is.

 

I'm also willing to share my experiences with writing, publishing and starting a business.

 

I'll talk to people about how we've bought, fixed and sold houses. When it makes sense and when it doesn't.

 

I'll talk to people about how we made the decision to not send our oldest to a university this year, even though it created a huge disturbance in my family, because we realized we could either struggle for the next twelve years and launch four children into life laden with debt (both them and us), or we could have each of them do two years of community college and two years at a university in our province (all of which have to take our CC's credits) for a price we could afford to pay in full.

 

I'll talk to people about how we use rental income, residual income and odd jobs to get buy instead of working "day jobs" and the pros and cons of that.

 

I'll talk about how we drive cross country instead of fly and save all kinds of money and still get great vacations.

 

Information is power. The more we share the more we know.

 

I suspect some in this conversation are talking about bragging - a totally different thing. My way of dealing with that is to be happy for the bragger - well and truly happy for them. I will ooh and ahh over all their purchases, house, cars and vacations with no malice in my heart because it makes them happy. Which makes me happy. Someone who has to tell you about their "things" and purchases has a deep hole somewhere in their heart. If I can fill it just a little by listening to them, then so be it.

 

And I practice that. Mostly.

 

BUT. Dh and I are educators and it's VERY easy for anyone to know how much we make/have made over the years.

 

So, when a single teacher said she couldn't afford to move out on her own and my dh was supporting a family of 6 . . .

 

Or my attorney friend (on salary with a small firm) and her *working* dh and no dc allowed their home to be foreclosed on because they didn't think the payments were *fair* . . .

 

And all the teachers who told me they were jealous of *me* becayse they couldn't afford to stay home with their babies . . . who lived in brand new McMansions . . .

 

Yes. I have at times talked specifics about how *we* do it because I think it's valuable for people to understand that choices affect what we can or can't do. KWIM?

 

Some adults really really don't get it. And I like to point out that they could make other choices and they could do other things . . .

 

I'm not talking about everyone. Just specifically professional friends whose incomes I *knew* who were crying poor. :glare: It kind of made me angry.

 

Many times it was tight for us. Dh lost his teaching at one time and the temporary replacement only paid a fraction. It was scary. It didn't last long and he did have something and I'm thankful.

 

I just think a lot of working people have an "entitlement" view that they should be able to have their cake and eat it too. That their jobs should pay even more. That they should be able to buy any house and go on any vacation and drive any car . . . no matter what.

 

I don't get it. :confused:

 

I am beginning to talk about specifics with my dc. I don't want them to talk about it outside of our immediate family because I do feel it's impolite.

 

I also believe it's part of my job to help them see how you can be thankful for what you have and live within your means (or work to find better means) instead of whining about all the stuff you don't have.

 

I was thinking about this some more, and I guess I do discuss strategies sometimes with people, and when I do, I give some specific numbers. When I used to work in engineering, I remember going out to lunch with 2 other colleagues in my car that I didn't know very well. They started to compliment my car, which was not new but which I had not had very long, because it had a moon roof which they felt was luxurious. I told them that I had bought it used, and that's why the moon roof was basically free to me, and then I talked about my methods for buying used cars, just chatting. They were sort of mildly interested until I mentioned that we had not purchased a new car for more than 15 years, and that I had never spent more than 5-8K for a car, or had a car payment, or kept a car for less than 7 years in all that time. That really got their attention because they flashed on the contrast with their 'buy new cars every five years' patterns and all of the sudden realized that the savings were considerable.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I don't talk about hard $s, but I WILL talk about how we got here and the choices we made to get here. And, we talk to our kids about it because they will have all of this and have to manage it.

[Kate CA]

I was unaware of that thread, didn't read it...way too many threads to keep up with them all. I was speaking SPECIFICALLY of what was happening in MY life.

 

Unfortunate timing? Sure. Insensitive? That implies it was intentional. Maybe give me the benefit of the doubt?

 

I apologize.

[mcconnellboys]

Maybe it's a Southern thing, but I grew up much like you. Many people of my parents generation or older were "too proud to take charity" or admit that they needed it, even when older and unable to work....

 

We offered delivery of groceries from our store and even after food stamps began to be more widely used and accepted in the mid-70's, we had older customers who regularly ordered large quantities of things like canned cat food. Those who delivered their groceries would sometimes be able to ascertain that they did not have pets to feed and figure out ways to get them to take other things to eat and stop using (or reduce used of) of canned pet foods (the thought of which still grosses me out)....

 

My husband's family was much the same way about money and we still don't talk about money matter specifics, even with our children....

[Audrey]

I was unaware of that thread, didn't read it...way too many threads to keep up with them all. I was speaking SPECIFICALLY of what was happening in MY life.

 

Unfortunate timing? Sure. Insensitive? That implies it was intentional. Maybe give me the benefit of the doubt?

 

 

We do not always agree, but I would absolutely give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. You were comparing your American upbringing regarding discussions of money to the Malaysian one. I took it as a comparison/question on foreign customs, and how it is to adapt to them for you.

 

When I answered you, I was speaking in the same vein, as where I live now is foreign to my American upbringing (although not by any means as different as yours is in Malaysia!). It is sometimes uncomfortable adapting to the local customs. I got that from your post first and foremost.

[coffeefreak]

I think discussing the cost (and opportunity cost) of some things is an important thing to do with our kids. And it is worth also making them aware that not everyone around them shares the same family assets.

 

I signed my son up for a year long swim team recently. We were trying to pick between two teams. Both represented a jump of about four times what we were paying where we previously lived. Then I realized that I'd also missed the extra "registration" amount. When my son saw how much it was going to be, he was willing to forgo swimming altogether. Fortunately for us, I was able to tell him that we did have this in our budget.

 

But I also know what it felt like to have sleepless nights, realizing that no matter how we crunched the numbers, we really couldn't afford to buy a house (given size and location wants) when we moved to the DC area. I cried when I told dh that I thought we should start looking at rentals instead of continuing to look at houses for sale. And I remember having to swallow hard when I saw a classmate's FB post and realized the extra person in the family photos was their nanny and that their house was in a sort of neighborhood that we'd known better than to even look at.

 

My frustration looking at those FB pics wasn't so much anger at my classmate as wondering if we'd been fools for staying in the military. 20 years of service and we can't afford to buy a house after years of postings overseas.

 

It was a real gut check morning for me. I had to keep reminding myself that this is someone I haven't seen in 20 years and that I have no idea what sorrows her life holds (like the other classmate whose teen daughter is fighting cancer). There are plenty who look at me and call me blessed. I've lived all around the world and don't usually put cost as the first consideration for homeschool curriculum. My kids are all healthy. For all of my complaints about long work hours and few vacation days, my dh came home last night. And there are too many Navy families this week who can't say that.

 

I guess that's all just a bit of a ramble to say that I think we need to cut each other a lot more slack and give a lot more grace than we tend to do. Not referring to the OP in particular, but just in general to threads here and things I see in real life. We are all just fallible people, weighted down with all of the baggage we've collected in life. Sometimes we can be uncharitable. That doesn't need to be met with more uncharitability and cutting people out and getting angry.

 

:iagree: & :grouphug:

We appreciate your service and sacrifice.

 

As I read through the entire thread, I realized it's not as cut and dry as it was in our grandparent's era. So, for example, it's OK to talk about a great deal, but not salary. It's OK and necessary to discuss your finances with children and possibly other family, but not friends. Or, maybe close friends, but not all friends.

 

It's really become hard to navigate polite society, hasn't it?:confused:

[Kate CA]

I think discussing the cost (and opportunity cost) of some things is an important thing to do with our kids. And it is worth also making them aware that not everyone around them shares the same family assets.

 

I signed my son up for a year long swim team recently. We were trying to pick between two teams. Both represented a jump of about four times what we were paying where we previously lived. Then I realized that I'd also missed the extra "registration" amount. When my son saw how much it was going to be, he was willing to forgo swimming altogether. Fortunately for us, I was able to tell him that we did have this in our budget.

 

But I also know what it felt like to have sleepless nights, realizing that no matter how we crunched the numbers, we really couldn't afford to buy a house (given size and location wants) when we moved to the DC area. I cried when I told dh that I thought we should start looking at rentals instead of continuing to look at houses for sale. And I remember having to swallow hard when I saw a classmate's FB post and realized the extra person in the family photos was their nanny and that their house was in a sort of neighborhood that we'd known better than to even look at.

 

My frustration looking at those FB pics wasn't so much anger at my classmate as wondering if we'd been fools for staying in the military. 20 years of service and we can't afford to buy a house after years of postings overseas.

 

It was a real gut check morning for me. I had to keep reminding myself that this is someone I haven't seen in 20 years and that I have no idea what sorrows her life holds (like the other classmate whose teen daughter is fighting cancer). There are plenty who look at me and call me blessed. I've lived all around the world and don't usually put cost as the first consideration for homeschool curriculum. My kids are all healthy. For all of my complaints about long work hours and few vacation days, my dh came home last night. And there are too many Navy families this week who can't say that.

 

I guess that's all just a bit of a ramble to say that I think we need to cut each other a lot more slack and give a lot more grace than we tend to do. Not referring to the OP in particular, but just in general to threads here and things I see in real life. We are all just fallible people, weighted down with all of the baggage we've collected in life. Sometimes we can be uncharitable. That doesn't need to be met with more uncharitability and cutting people out and getting angry.

 

This was a beautiful grace-filled post. Thanks for sharing it! I completely agree.

 

Thank you also for all your sacrifices, for your husband's sacrifices, as well as your family. Thank you all for your service.

[CourtneyMI]

In our household, it's more situational than anything. We compare cost savings ideas with our neighbors because we are all in the same boat. DH and I are working to find a way to allow me to stay at home in the next 2 years. Since both of our neighbors are SAHMs, we look to them for help. We also talk to my parents about our finances because we are extremely close with them and, for the most part, are in the same boat financially.

 

However, we do not talk about finances with my FIL or MIL when she was alive. It's just a major no no in our relationship. We do the same with most of our friends and all of our siblings. I'll talk to strangers about finances in general - ie how much something cost or how we afford some of the luxuries we do have in our life.

 

I agree that grace on both sides of the argument needs to be taken, especially when talking about money.

[Heather in Neverland]

So, for example, it's OK to talk about a great deal, but not salary. It's OK and necessary to discuss your finances with children and possibly other family, but not friends. Or, maybe close friends, but not all friends.

 

It's really become hard to navigate polite society, hasn't it?:confused:

 

Yes it has! I am becoming more and more afraid to speak about anything other than the weather (although I am sure I could offend someone with that too).

[Heather in Neverland]

We do not always agree, but I would absolutely give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. You were comparing your American upbringing regarding discussions of money to the Malaysian one. I took it as a comparison/question on foreign customs, and how it is to adapt to them for you.

 

When I answered you, I was speaking in the same vein, as where I live now is foreign to my American upbringing (although not by any means as different as yours is in Malaysia!). It is sometimes uncomfortable adapting to the local customs. I got that from your post first and foremost.

 

Thanks Audrey.