Totally freaked out (long)

[kwickimom]

I babysat for 4 girls this summer. One of them has "issues" and the mom warned me to keep a close eye on her because she does "weird" things.....like put all the silverware in the mircowave :glare: (this was the example she gave and said she likes to experiment)

 

Anyways...didnt have any problems with the her the whole summer, I never left her alone except to use the bathroom. She did make a few "off" comments for a 7 year old and talked a lot about kissing and stuff of that sort. Well yesterday she kept asking me if I liked my fish (the tank is in the bathroom) and my bird. Asked me like 20 times, but she does that a lot. I kept saying yes I loved all my animals. Well the girls were all running around shooting nerf guns and shooting the deer heads on the wall. This girl goes to the bathroom and comes out with the gun saying she killed my fish and was all happy and giggly about it. She proceeds to say she is going to kill my bird and deer. I thought she was joking and told her to tone it down and that we only hunted wild game and nothing in our house.

 

After they leave I go to the bathroom to find out...she DID kill my fish. Squirted all the handsoap in the tank :001_huh: Poor guy was dead.

 

I texted her mom immediatley (she is a nurse and sleeps/works weird hours so I didnt want to wake her) and she called me later and made the child apologize and told me this child said she didnt do anything and that maybe she was trying to "wash" the fish.

 

I explained that she had asked me all day if I loved my fish and that she was hysterical laughing and happy as can be when she told me she killed it. I told her I could no longer watch her kids and that thankfully my kids werent home to witness this, they would be totally freaked to hear someone killed a pet. She apologized and said she didnt know what to say and that she has never done anything like that before. I just said I am sorry too, but that crossed a line and I think the child needs some help.

 

WOW. I have had issues with every.single.kid I have ever babysat, but this totally freaked me out. She maliciously killed my fish, probably even planned it out. This is a disturbed child and I am SO worried what will become of her if they dont get her help. She is only 7.

 

I am done babysitting. Willl never do it again, ever. I know this is a special case, but I have been accused of not feeding a baby and had some other crazy issues and I think God is really telling me to not ever do this again. I am just so freaked I had this child paying with my kids.

[mommaduck]

:grouphug: That was malicious (and yes, I would use that word). The child does need help. There is experimenting, and then there is doing to something harmful to created a negative reaction and getting a laughing kick out of it (particularly if it involves harming a living creature and hurting someone's feelings).

 

I would also request that the mother replace the fish and any equipment that was ruined.

[kwickimom]

She offered to replace it. I want to make that child work it off but I dont want her anywhere around my house. It was a 10 cent goldfish that lived four years. We joked it was going to live forever. I know its just a fish but I am so sad it died the way it did. I cant imagine what is wrong with that child to find that fun :001_unsure:

[Firefly]

I would have been freaked out too! I think you handled it very well. I hope the poor girl gets the help she needs. :(

[J-rap]

Wow, that is really bizarre and frightening, and I'm sure I would be freaked out too. It certainly does sound like she needs professional help, and probably a trained psychiatrist would immediately be able to put a label on that kind of disorder, but who knows what is behind it. So very sad. I once helped take care of a girl (middle school aged) who constantly tried to strangle herself with her hands. She would squeeze her neck until her face turned blue. She was a foster child but the family she was living with loved her dearly and had already sought professional help for her. She had had some very traumatic experiences earlier in her life.

[Denisemomof4]

is she adopted? That certainly doesn't sound like normal child behavior. The fact that she is "off," has to be watched constantly at 7, and killed your fish, with enjoyment and NO remorse, really make me think she has RAD. Finding help WON'T be easy.

[ChristusG]

Yes, that little girl sounds like she needs some help. Have the parents looked into getting help for her? Killing animals is an early sign of later issues.

[elegantlion]

I'm sorry about your fish. I would be greatly disturbed as well. :grouphug:

 

Isn't harming animals as a child a symptom of some mental disturbance? :confused:

[Colleen in SEVA]

I'm most bothered by the fact that the mom was NOT bothered by what her DD did. No advice... but I share your concern!

[kwickimom]

She is not adopted and both parents live together. She has told me she is a lesbian, that she makes out with girls and has made a few s*xual comments. The sisters told me she has gotten them kicked out of a few activities and about some weird things she has done. I dont think the mom is going to get her help, but something is seriously wrong.

Edited July 27, 2011 by kwickimom
typo

[Joanne]

((((((Hugs))))))

 

That is awful. For confidentiality reasons, I never posted about the last "homeschool" student I had here but it was nearly that dramatic.

 

The behavior you describe is a marker for anti-social personality disorder (sociopath). Children are not diagnosed as such, but will get a diagnosis such as oppositional defiant or conduct disorder.

 

I never accepted new students after the one I mentioned. I had some doozies in the daycare over the years; I understand.

 

I am sorry your fish died.

[kwickimom]

((((((Hugs))))))

 

That is awful. For confidentiality reasons, I never posted about the last "homeschool" student I had here but it was nearly that dramatic.

 

The behavior you describe is a marker for anti-social personality disorder (sociopath). Children are not diagnosed as such, but will get a diagnosis such as oppositional defiant or conduct disorder.

 

I never accepted new students after the one I mentioned. I had some doozies in the daycare over the years; I understand.

 

I am sorry your fish died.

 

 

This is what I was thinking.

[Annie G]

Wow- that girl needs help. And her mom sounds like she's still in denial. First she warns you about odd behavior, then brushes it off when something happens.

 

Sorry you had to go through that- do you think that every time you see your fish tank you're going to think about this? I sure would for quite a while! I'd probably have to take the tank down for a while.

[speedmom4]

Have you thought about calling Child Protective Services since you mentioned that the mother isn't willing to get her help?

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

[Denisemomof4]

 

Isn't harming animals as a child a symptom of some mental disturbance? :confused:

 

I know kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder do this. IT's alarming to see how they enjoy it.

 

I think sociopaths are like that in childhood, too. I can't remember for sure but I think I read that.

[Denisemomof4]

I'm most bothered by the fact that the mom was NOT bothered by what her DD did. No advice... but I share your concern!

 

that is also VERY concerning. She likely numbs herself to it all, overwhelmed and not knowing what to do. Shell shocked.

[ELaurie]

She has told me she is a lesbian, that she makes out with girls and has made a few s*xual comments.

 

Identifying herself as a lesbian and "making out" with girls at 7 strikes me as unusually precocious behavior. In combination with the other behaviors you describe, I think these claims warrant further investigation by a professional who can identify exactly what she means by "making out." It could be a reference to relatively innocent, childlike behavior, but then again, it may not be.

[Impish]

She is not adopted and both parents live together. She has told me she is a lesbian, that she makes out with girls and has made a few s*xual comments. The sisters told me she has gotten them kicked out of a few activities and about some weird things she has done. I dont think the mom is going to get her help, but something is seriously wrong.

Wow. That sets off all sorts of alarm bells for me.

[QueenCat]

I'd be a bit freaked out too. And would have made the same decision you made. The girl needs serious help, and people watching her who have training in working with kids with mental health issues.

[Ginevra]

I babysat for 4 girls this summer. One of them has "issues" and the mom warned me to keep a close eye on her because she does "weird" things.....like put all the silverware in the mircowave :glare: (this was the example she gave and said she likes to experiment)

 

Anyways...didnt have any problems with the her the whole summer, I never left her alone except to use the bathroom. She did make a few "off" comments for a 7 year old and talked a lot about kissing and stuff of that sort. Well yesterday she kept asking me if I liked my fish (the tank is in the bathroom) and my bird. Asked me like 20 times, but she does that a lot. I kept saying yes I loved all my animals. Well the girls were all running around shooting nerf guns and shooting the deer heads on the wall. This girl goes to the bathroom and comes out with the gun saying she killed my fish and was all happy and giggly about it. She proceeds to say she is going to kill my bird and deer. I thought she was joking and told her to tone it down and that we only hunted wild game and nothing in our house.

 

After they leave I go to the bathroom to find out...she DID kill my fish. Squirted all the handsoap in the tank :001_huh: Poor guy was dead.

 

I texted her mom immediatley (she is a nurse and sleeps/works weird hours so I didnt want to wake her) and she called me later and made the child apologize and told me this child said she didnt do anything and that maybe she was trying to "wash" the fish.

 

I explained that she had asked me all day if I loved my fish and that she was hysterical laughing and happy as can be when she told me she killed it. I told her I could no longer watch her kids and that thankfully my kids werent home to witness this, they would be totally freaked to hear someone killed a pet. She apologized and said she didnt know what to say and that she has never done anything like that before. I just said I am sorry too, but that crossed a line and I think the child needs some help.

 

WOW. I have had issues with every.single.kid I have ever babysat, but this totally freaked me out. She maliciously killed my fish, probably even planned it out. This is a disturbed child and I am SO worried what will become of her if they dont get her help. She is only 7.

 

I am done babysitting. Willl never do it again, ever. I know this is a special case, but I have been accused of not feeding a baby and had some other crazy issues and I think God is really telling me to not ever do this again. I am just so freaked I had this child paying with my kids.

 

:grouphug: I agree. That is anti-social behavior of the type that is associated with serial killers. One of the behaviors of childhood frequently found in sociopathic adults is torturing and/or killing small animals and pets. The other is pyromania. :grouphug: I am sorry. That would terrify me for the sake of the child also and I would be upset about the fish on the face of it, too.

[Denisemomof4]

She is not adopted and both parents live together. She has told me she is a lesbian, that she makes out with girls and has made a few s*xual comments. The sisters told me she has gotten them kicked out of a few activities and about some weird things she has done. I dont think the mom is going to get her help, but something is seriously wrong.

 

sexual acting out is also common for RAD kids. Do you know if this child has a good relationship with her parents? Do the other girls? Do you know if they spend a lot of time together? Do they seem attached?

 

Bio children can get RAD if they had medical issues that kept them separated from the mom as a baby. Also, painful medical procedures sometimes can form the mistrust, and then RAD or attachment disorder can set in. Most moms are extra loving and supportive if their bio kid had these issues,. but if she wasn't it could have set the child up from an early age to distrust the parents. Other than that, which is extremely rare with bio kids, neglect, trauma or abuse can cause a bio kid to have RAD.

 

I think it's really sad she's not even trying to get help. I tried to get my RAD dd help for many, many years but have finally given up. I, personally, worry more about the effects of RAD on my bio kids and I'm going to be getting dd11 and I into counseling together. She doesn't know it yet. I just worry about the stress on her. Those poor sisters of the girl. Sad.

[unsinkable]

Identifying herself as a lesbian and "making out" with girls at 7 strikes me as unusually precocious behavior. In combination with the other behaviors you describe, I think these claims warrant further investigation by a professional who can identify exactly what she means by "making out." It could be a reference to relatively innocent, childlike behavior, but then again, it may not be.

 

ugh. I agree.

 

Who does the girl say she is making out with?

[Denisemomof4]

((((((Hugs))))))

 

That is awful. For confidentiality reasons, I never posted about the last "homeschool" student I had here but it was nearly that dramatic.

 

The behavior you describe is a marker for anti-social personality disorder (sociopath). Children are not diagnosed as such, but will get a diagnosis such as oppositional defiant or conduct disorder.

 

I never accepted new students after the one I mentioned. I had some doozies in the daycare over the years; I understand.

 

I am sorry your fish died.

 

 

Joanne, from what I understand it's ODD in childhood, conduct disorder in teens, then sociopath. In your studies have you seen statistics of CD teens going on to become sociopaths?

[Harriet Vane]

Identifying herself as a lesbian and "making out" with girls at 7 strikes me as unusually precocious behavior. In combination with the other behaviors you describe, I think these claims warrant further investigation by a professional who can identify exactly what she means by "making out." It could be a reference to relatively innocent, childlike behavior, but then again, it may not be.

 

I am concerned about this too. Unfortunately I doubt DCFS would investigate based on the concerns raised in this thread.

 

Kwickimom, you might consider telling the child's school social worker about the incident AND, most importantly, about the precocious s@xual stuff. Make sure you have a list when you talk to this person so that you know you have clearly communicated everything. Doing this will put those specific concerns onto the radar of a mandated reporter, and they should investigate further.

 

Another option is to tell the child's doctor, though you may not know who that person is. Please, at least tell the school counselor. This child really does need help, and she's young enough so that she has a chance.

[Denisemomof4]

one more thing. Eventually the school will probably get involved, first with their own counselor, then likely recommending that the parents get help for the child. That will be very good for her.

 

I never leave my dd8 unattended in our home because of the damage she causes to the home AND our animals. And one therapist told me, "She doesn't MEAN to do that to *such and such animal* she just feels bad inside." :001_huh: And now I can only find therapists to help ME deal with dd's problems. Nobody will work with HER.

 

it's stupid.

[kwickimom]

She told me she made out with a girl from school but would say nothing else. I asked if they told their mom all this and they said she knows. I am also not sure if any of this is truth or lies. My husband came home for lunch and when he left he kissed me on the cheek and the girl went nuts and said I we were making out. I explained to her that wasnt making out, just a simple show of affection, and she kept insisitng it was making out. So I am not sure if she even knows what making out is. I know theyhave TVs in their rooms and can watch whatever they want.

 

When their mom picks them up, this girl goes crazy, and hits and pokes and tries to hurt her. She has never tried to touch me or my bird, but when her mother came yesterday she ran over and starting trying to jab my bird with a toy and her mom had to yell at her repeatedly and grab her arm. One time she was poking her mom really hard with a pencil in the back of the neck.

 

I know they are not supervised when the mother is at work. they said their dad is really mean and usually just sleeps and they do all kinds of things while he is sleeping.

 

Lots of crazy stories.

[sassyscrapperinid]

I would also request that the mother replace the fish and any equipment that was ruined.

 

:iagree: Thats terrible. Sorry this happened. :grouphug:

[kwickimom]

I am concerned about this too. Unfortunately I doubt DCFS would investigate based on the concerns raised in this thread.

 

Kwickimom, you might consider telling the child's school social worker about the incident AND, most importantly, about the precocious s@xual stuff. Make sure you have a list when you talk to this person so that you know you have clearly communicated everything. Doing this will put those specific concerns onto the radar of a mandated reporter, and they should investigate further.

 

Another option is to tell the child's doctor, though you may not know who that person is. Please, at least tell the school counselor. This child really does need help, and she's young enough so that she has a chance.

 

 

I am absolutley going to do this. I am not sure who the kids doctor is. She told me at one point and I cant remember. I am truly worried about this child. I would not call CPS as I dont have any evidence of abuse. I am going to be one of these girls (not the girl in question) Girl Scout leader this year and I need to tread carfeully. If I had a clear sign of abuse I would call.

[lionfamily1999]

Normally I'm not a big one on excusing behavior as a cry for attention, but... this really sounds like a desperate plea for attention :(

 

I also agree with the pps who said the mother sounds like she's in denial/whiped out. I usually don't say to intervene either, but in this case, it sounds like the parents need someone to stand up and say this is wrong and MUST be looked at.

 

I think of the parents of people that do bizarre/terrible things and how they didn't want to condemn their own children and I think they would have been relieved to have someone else come out in agreement with them. Her mom said she was strange and did odd things. She, the mom, knows this behavior is not right. Maybe she needs someone to stand with her.

[Denisemomof4]

I am absolutley going to do this. I am not sure who the kids doctor is. She told me at one point and I cant remember. I am truly worried about this child. I would not call CPS as I dont have any evidence of abuse. I am going to be one of these girls (not the girl in question) Girl Scout leader this year and I need to tread carfeully. If I had a clear sign of abuse I would call.

 

if you call the school, I'd bet money on it that the people there won't be surprised. I'm sure they've seen these behaviors already.

[Whereneverever]

OOoh, wow, I'd be freaked, too.

 

So sorry about your fish.

[kwickimom]

if you call the school, I'd bet money on it that the people there won't be surprised. I'm sure they've seen these behaviors already.

 

I am sure they have to know. She has been kicked out of far too many things and there is just no way to ignore this issue. But killing is a whole different story. I even ignored her when she told me because I didnt grasp the severity.

[nono]

Bio children can get RAD if they had medical issues that kept them separated from the mom as a baby. Also, painful medical procedures sometimes can form the mistrust, and then RAD or attachment disorder can set in. Most moms are extra loving and supportive if their bio kid had these issues,. but if she wasn't it could have set the child up from an early age to distrust the parents. Other than that, which is extremely rare with bio kids, neglect, trauma or abuse can cause a bio kid to have RAD.

 

Well, depression in a Mom without a whole lot of help around can set up a RAD scenario too. Since the Dad is mean and basically "not there" you could be onto something Denise. Regardless of what it may be, there's definitely something wrong with the child.

 

:grouphug: kwickimom...that's just too much to deal with in one's own home!

[swellmomma]

I'm most bothered by the fact that the mom was NOT bothered by what her DD did. No advice... but I share your concern!

 

:iagree: Austin killed our fish at a young age (5-6ish), and harmed other pets. We got rid of all animals for YEARS and brought it up with his ped and shrink. Even back then we knew *something* was wrong. He never did it maliciously, nor was he laughing about it. In fact he often was crying and could not figure out how the animal had died despite him doing xyz to it. He was just absolutely clueless, with no connection between cause and effect. In fact he did dish soap in the fish bowl, he threw a rabbit out a window etc.

 

We do have pets again, and he has never harmed another animal. He loves most animals and while he is still clueless about some stuff and still doesn't always make the connection between cause and effect he hasn't hurt any more animals.

 

All that to say, even when I knew it was not malicious and he was very very upset when the animal got hurt or killed, I was freaked out and had an appt the next day with his shrink and/or his ped to document and get him help. I was sure I was raising the next serial killer, based on stuff like that. I can't imagine sweeping it under the rug and pretending everything is okay when innocent creatures are harmed. BUT I am not surprised. If there is one thing I have learned in my journey of getting Austin help for his mental issues is that parents are often steeped in denial. I have heard this time and again while working with dr's, shrinks, cops because of Austin. That the parents refuse to admit something is wrong or that their child even did something wrong in the first place and so no one can help the child until it is too late and they end up in the system one way or another.

[goldberry]

This thread is heartbreaking. I cannot imagine the pain of a mom having to deal with this in a child...but denial certainly serves no one, least of all the child.

[Denisemomof4]

This thread is heartbreaking. I cannot imagine the pain of a mom having to deal with this in a child...but denial certainly serves no one, least of all the child.

 

:iagree:

 

At least for this mom, I can say there are TONS of resources in IL. She's lucky to have that.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Sorry to the OP. I'll be praying for this child. I'll just pray how I know God is leading me to pray and keep my thoughts to myself.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: to you, the little girl, and her family!!

Edited July 30, 2011 by FiveOaksAcademy

[unsinkable]

No one will agree with me, but it sounds like a spiritual issue to me.

 

:confused:

 

Do you know the thoughts of every single person on this board?

[catz]

No one will agree with me, but it sounds like a spiritual issue to me.

 

:confused: what?

 

This is incredibly sad. I'm sorry about your fish and I'm sorry the girl's mother is in denial. I really wonder what is going on behind closed doors at their house. Especially since the parents aren't doing anything to really get help for the child? Sad.

[*********]

No one will agree with me, but it sounds like a spiritual issue to me.

 

Actually, I agree with you.

 

We had a similar type sitation a few years ago. None of the sexu@l stuff you've mentioned, but some, uh, VERY disturbing behaviour from a daughter of friends.

 

Ended up ruining our friendship as well as breaking up a fellowship. Mainly becuase her mom and dad either couldn't or wouldn't *see* any of it. Even when the disturbing behaviour was directed at them. Very sad and troubling. Very sad. But I must say, I'm glad my children no longer interact with that girl.

[Princess Peach]

I'm sorry about your fish. We had one that lived a long time too. :(

 

It sounds like the girl needs help, and the mom is in denial. Not a good combo.

[Mona100]

No one will agree with me, but it sounds like a spiritual issue to me.

 

 

Ok. Maybe I am not following. But what do you mean a spiritual issue? I'm not trying to start anything, I guess I just don't understand what the comment means.

[Dobela]

Ok. Maybe I am not following. But what do you mean a spiritual issue? I'm not trying to start anything, I guess I just don't understand what the comment means.

:iagree: I don't see how it is a spiritual issue either, and I am a Christian. God didn't promise freedom from issues like this.

[Impish]

:iagree: I don't see how it is a spiritual issue either, and I am a Christian. God didn't promise freedom from issues like this.

There are ppl that believe that not everything is a result of psychological issue, but rather demonic possession, Satan, etc.

[kwickimom]

There are ppl that believe that not everything is a result of psychological issue, but rather demonic possession, Satan, etc.

 

 

My mom mentioned this. She feels a lot of psychological things are spiritual issues. We have mental illness in the family and have dealt with it a lot. She is not against meds and counseling, just feels it is more of an evil than a mental illness, especially in children.

[Ellie]

This sounds like a child with RAD. And that doesn't get better. I have a good friend who has BTDT.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Isn't harming animals as a child a symptom of some mental disturbance? :confused:

 

I think sociopaths are like that in childhood, too. I can't remember for sure but I think I read that.

 

:grouphug: I agree. That is anti-social behavior of the type that is associated with serial killers. One of the behaviors of childhood frequently found in sociopathic adults is torturing and/or killing small animals and pets. The other is pyromania.

 

:iagree: The 3 main signs of sociopath behavior in children is harming/killing animals for fun/without empathy, pyromania, and bed wetting. Most adults sociopaths had 2/3 in their childhood. It dosen't mean that all children who do 2/3 of those things will grow up to be sociopaths, but they are early warning signs of possible problems.

 

As to the sexual awareness, because of some abuse in my history (I was taken away from my parents when I was 4 but I have a LOT of memories from that time...) I was kissing boys in preschool. I really hope I didn't mess them up....

 

Ok. Maybe I am not following. But what do you mean a spiritual issue? I'm not trying to start anything, I guess I just don't understand what the comment means.

 

I think by spiritual issue they may be referring to demonic influence or possession.

[clarkacademy]

WOW! :grouphug: and I am so sorry for your poor fish. That is crazy. There is nothing wrong with her that anyone knows about? My eight year old son with autism killed our hamster. He saw a stupid commercial on TV so he tried that home so to speak. he put the hamster in the ball and rolled him down the stairs.

 

He really didn't get why the thing would not wake up.The hamster on TV came out turning summer saults GRRR. The neighbor called the police on me and child services investigated that. He didn't understand. He loved that little hamster. But to be happy about it that is horrible. I wouldn't think she needs to be around younger children or pets. At 7 you know not to squirt soap in a fish bowl.

 

I am still so sorry for you though.

[Harriet Vane]

I am absolutley going to do this. I am not sure who the kids doctor is. She told me at one point and I cant remember. I am truly worried about this child. I would not call CPS as I dont have any evidence of abuse. I am going to be one of these girls (not the girl in question) Girl Scout leader this year and I need to tread carfeully. If I had a clear sign of abuse I would call.

 

I understand. I've been there before.

 

Do call the school counselor asap. You can make it clear that she is NOT to tell anyone that you told her unless she calls DCFS.

 

It's a hard position to be in. Thank you for your concern for her and your willingness to do what you are able to do.

[Liz CA]

Um...you mean the 7yo talked about being a lesbian or that her mother was a lesbian? Either way, my red flag went up when I read that she comments a lot about kissing. You can bet there is something going on or she has had some traumatic experience she is acting out...or indiscriminate exposure to TV with no guidance.