stripe Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/woman-arrested-for-groping-tsa-agent-07152011 Woman Who Groped TSA Agent's Breast Let Out of Jail Court records show 61-year-old Yukari Mihamae grabbed the left breast of the female agent Thursday at the Terminal 4 checkpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Oh, my word! I don't know whether to :lol: or :glare:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Oh, my word! I don't know whether to :lol: or :glare:. Me, too. I wasn't sure whether to laugh, or to applaud her for pointing something important out, or to think she is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I suppose ultimately I have to condemn her actions. The thought of being at work and getting my booK touched, twisted and otherwise assaulted is is not a happy thought. Still, I keep thinking "good for her." This madness (TSA policy) needs to stop and stop soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Until reading the article link, I thought 'Good for her'! But it sounds more like an off kilter woman taking her aggressions out on an innocent person. Grabbing and twisting with both hands? A bit more aggressive than a simple 'you touched mine and I'm gonna touch yours' payback grope. Sounds like she has issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I cannot help but laugh at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 A bit more aggressive than a simple 'you touched mine and I'm gonna touch yours' payback grope. This made me laugh -- such a technical category of gropage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Maybe if this starts happening more often the agency will change. Hopefully no one would be willing to work for them anymore, although I couldn't imagine working for them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightside Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 TSA is just security theatre. This weekend I flew from Las Vegas to DC with a layover in NYC. After I got through security in Vegas, I bought a huge bottle of smart water for over $5 I get very dry flying and figured that would last until I got to DC. I got to NY (still in the secured area, never left) went straight to the gate and proceeded to wait the 2 hours for my next flight. During the boarding process, I was pulled for an "extra screening", they took my water and "tested" it by rubbing a test strip around the lip of my water bottle. They wouldn't tell me what was on the swab (if anything) or what the purpose was. They were surprised when I threw the remainder of my water away. Um, not putting my mouth or consuming something that was wiped with an unknown substance...ewww. There was no point to that at all. They take away liquids at the security gate, so any liquid I had, I was forced to purchase in the "secured" area. Oh, well at least the nude-o-scopes and the gropes were not in effect at either end of my trip this time. It would be too tempting to search them back. This should be the last time for quite awhile that I won't have an option to drive to my destination (work-wise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 TSA is just security theatre. I totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 FYI, when people are beginning to get dementia (and yes, this can happen at 61) one of the first "inappropriate actions" is grabbing breasts. It seems like something primitive in the mind. I've seen many patients do this, male and female. When asked why, they often reply they don't know. I learned to keep my upper arms pressed tight against my girls, and use only my forearms and hands to start IVs and draw blood in certain populations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Whether you agree with the TSA security protocol or not, the people doing the actual pat downs are just doing their jobs and trying to support their families like the rest of us. They have absolutely no say in what the government requires them to do, and assaulting them because you don't like what the higher-ups have decided is wrong. I'm glad the woman was charged. It would be like beating up the postman because you're angry about the price of stamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabeline Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Whether you agree with the TSA security protocol or not, the people doing the actual pat downs are just doing their jobs and trying to support their families like the rest of us. They have absolutely no say in what the government requires them to do, and assaulting them because you don't like what the higher-ups have decided is wrong. I'm glad the woman was charged. It would be like beating up the postman because you're angry about the price of stamps. :iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Until reading the article link, I thought 'Good for her'! But it sounds more like an off kilter woman taking her aggressions out on an innocent person. Grabbing and twisting with both hands? A bit more aggressive than a simple 'you touched mine and I'm gonna touch yours' payback grope. Sounds like she has issues. :iagree: And the headline is misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsbaby Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Oh geez....that is too funny!!! ETA: I don't advocate her actions...but it did make me giggle. I understand that they are just doing their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 This made me laugh -- such a technical category of gropage. Hee hee :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I don't find this funny at all. I've been patted down by airline security: it is NOT groping. It's extremely professional, and there is nothing invasive about it. The TSA agents are doing their job. I can't, after my OB gives me a breast exam, decide to grab her breast. If I tried to do so, I'd be in the wrong. This woman is, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 I don't find this funny at all. I've been patted down by airline security: it is NOT groping. It's extremely professional, and there is nothing invasive about it. The TSA agents are doing their job. I can't, after my OB gives me a breast exam, decide to grab her breast. If I tried to do so, I'd be in the wrong. This woman is, too. I never said it was funny. I tried to make a title for the thread that didn't have the word of the involved body part in it. ;) I've had cervical exams conducted professionally. That doesn't mean that having someone pop up and insert their finger into my cervix will necessarily be professional or somehow aid national security. Having someone touch your testicles, inside of your thighs, and cup your breasts, is not a normal part of public interaction, and some people consider the cradling of their testicles or rubbing of their breasts to be invasive. I think the point is that maybe not everyone is capable of enduring intimate physical contact stoically. There are mentally ill people who need to travel. There are also victims of sexual assault. So the government needs to perhaps put more thought into creating an environment that is actually secure for both individuals and the traveling public. Not every idea is a good one, particularly if it's both invasive and provides limited (or no) additional security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Not every idea is a good one, particularly if it's both invasive and provides limited (or no) additional security. :iagree: Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Whether you agree with the TSA security protocol or not, the people doing the actual pat downs are just doing their jobs and trying to support their families like the rest of us. They have absolutely no say in what the government requires them to do, and assaulting them because you don't like what the higher-ups have decided is wrong. I'm glad the woman was charged. It would be like beating up the postman because you're angry about the price of stamps. Historically, the "I was just following orders" defense doesn't fly. No pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think the point is that maybe not everyone is capable of enduring intimate physical contact stoically. In my experience flying, the physical contact you have with a TSA agent doing a pat-down is far less "intimate" that the contact you'll have with whomever is sitting next to you on the plane, whom you'll likely be bumping legs and arms with for much of the flight. If somebody is going to be pushed over the edge by physical contact, air travel might not be the best way for them to get somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Whether you agree with the TSA security protocol or not, the people doing the actual pat downs are just doing their jobs and trying to support their families like the rest of us. They have absolutely no say in what the government requires them to do, and assaulting them because you don't like what the higher-ups have decided is wrong. I'm glad the woman was charged. It would be like beating up the postman because you're angry about the price of stamps. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 In my experience flying, the physical contact you have with a TSA agent doing a pat-down is far less "intimate" that the contact you'll have with whomever is sitting next to you on the plane, whom you'll likely be bumping legs and arms with for much of the flight. If somebody is going to be pushed over the edge by physical contact, air travel might not be the best way for them to get somewhere. I have been patted down by TSA agents twice. The physical contact with the TSA agent was much more intimate, even though on both occasions the agent was being professional and courteous. Generally speaking, my seatmate isn't going to rotate their hands around both bre@sts or feel up both my thighs and over my buttocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I have been patted down by TSA agents twice. The physical contact with the TSA agent was much more intimate, even though on both occasions the agent was being professional and courteous. Generally speaking, my seatmate isn't going to rotate their hands around both bre@sts or feel up both my thighs and over my buttocks. And if they did... they'd be facing sexual assault charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Historically, the "I was just following orders" defense doesn't fly. No pun intended. Are you seriously equating TSA regulations to the Nazis? :confused: I think that's a little excessive. When TSA starts killing people who don't pass muster, we'll talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Slight tangent: I have to say, this whole thing concerns me. Dh and I have been discussing flying to Arizona in this next yr to see his dad. We have been trying very hard to reinforce the recognition of appropriate boundaries and good/bad touching with ds and he has attachment issues. I just don't know how this would effect him. :confused: He says ouch if you just graze him accidentally. Would allowing him to be scanned guarantee that he won't have to be searched? Edited July 17, 2011 by jewellsmommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 And if they did... they'd be facing sexual assault charges. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 TSA is out of line. Just the first step in what will be a long line of lost liberties. Don't tell me there isn't another, better way to go about security. And dare I say it? Nah, I'm not going to. Yep, I'm gonna say it. Good for that woman. T!t for tat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 :iagree::iagree: The woman was wrong... On the other hand, I don't want my ds or dd going through it even if the agent is professional and courteous. Heck, I don't want to go through it. (Friends of ours flew through an air port that was checking families that day. It was a pretty big deal to her kids.) I have been patted down by TSA agents twice. The physical contact with the TSA agent was much more intimate, even though on both occasions the agent was being professional and courteous. Generally speaking, my seatmate isn't going to rotate their hands around both bre@sts or feel up both my thighs and over my buttocks. And if they did... they'd be facing sexual assault charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 T!t for tat. :blink: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punchie Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Would allowing him to be scanned guarantee that he won't have to be searched? No. If they see "an anomally", he can still be patted down. Regarding the professionalism of TSA, while there are plenty of agents who are, there are also plenty who go beyond what is necessary or decent. It's only a matter of time before pax start dishing it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 In my experience flying, the physical contact you have with a TSA agent doing a pat-down is far less "intimate" that the contact you'll have with whomever is sitting next to you on the plane, whom you'll likely be bumping legs and arms with for much of the flight. If somebody is going to be pushed over the edge by physical contact, air travel might not be the best way for them to get somewhere. I think being seated next to someone in the coach section of a plane and your arms and legs occasionally touching is way different than someone touching your breasts. I havent been through a TSA inspection- we havent flown in years, but I would be just a wee bit taken aback if someone touched my breasts as part of the pre-flight inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 TSA is just security theatre. No kidding. You can kill someone with a decent ballpoint pen to an artery. asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 No kidding. You can kill someone with a decent ballpoint pen to an artery. asta Kind of highlights the farcical aspect doesn't it? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 TSA is out of line. Just the first step in what will be a long line of lost liberties. Don't tell me there isn't another, better way to go about security. And dare I say it? Nah, I'm not going to. Yep, I'm gonna say it. Good for that woman. T!t for tat. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Whether you agree with the TSA security protocol or not, the people doing the actual pat downs are just doing their jobs and trying to support their families like the rest of us. They have absolutely no say in what the government requires them to do, and assaulting them because you don't like what the higher-ups have decided is wrong. I'm glad the woman was charged. It would be like beating up the postman because you're angry about the price of stamps. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Whether you agree with the TSA security protocol or not, the people doing the actual pat downs are just doing their jobs and trying to support their families like the rest of us. They have absolutely no say in what the government requires them to do, and assaulting them because you don't like what the higher-ups have decided is wrong. I'm glad the woman was charged. It would be like beating up the postman because you're angry about the price of stamps. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 No kidding. You can kill someone with a decent ballpoint pen to an artery. asta One only needs to read Miss Marple to see evidence of silk stockings and/or a firm grip ('monkey paws') to do no end of evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 In my experience flying, the physical contact you have with a TSA agent doing a pat-down is far less "intimate" that the contact you'll have with whomever is sitting next to you on the plane, whom you'll likely be bumping legs and arms with for much of the flight. If somebody is going to be pushed over the edge by physical contact, air travel might not be the best way for them to get somewhere. First of all, if someone starts touching you, you can tell them to knock it off. Unlike the TSA agent, whom you 'must' let touch you on your inner thigh and breast. Secondly, given the high numbers of mental illness (around 5% have serious mental health issues, 26% of people have some) , rape survivors (1 in 6 women and 1 in 33 men), molestation survivors (5-25%), transsexual individuals, and those with autism -- omitting those who simply don't want to be groped and whether thos actually improves safety -- and the fact that airplanes are the main mode of long distance transportationin this country for domestic travel and the only real option to get off the continent, it's quite a daring statement to say that it is acceptable that those people may not travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) ... Edited July 18, 2011 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think the passenger's reaction was completely uncalled for. Having had a patdown recently, there was no groping, the woman explained what she was going to do, and I really didn't feel violated. If you are really that against the new security measures, then don't fly. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Are you seriously equating TSA regulations to the Nazis? :confused: I think that's a little excessive. When TSA starts killing people who don't pass muster, we'll talk. Ah, but is there a difference aside from the severity of abuse? The motive is different. Does that make it OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Ah, but is there a difference aside from the severity of abuse? Yes. The TSA isn't patting people down because the government has decided that airplane passengers are inferior and so deserve to be humiliated. The pat-downs are a security measure created in the wake of several instances of people trying to sneak small explosives onto planes. This isn't "abuse." It's a policy that bothers some people, I think because we're so puritanical in our culture that we can't accept somebody touching our bodies, in even the most professional and cursory way, as anything other than inappropriately sexual. To even think of comparing this "abuse" to what happened in Nazi Germany is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightside Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 To even think of comparing this "abuse" to what happened in Nazi Germany is ridiculous. The comparison is fair, it is the early stages of a slow erosion of all of our basic rights. The Nazi's did not take over violently and overnight, they were elected. Many men died for our rights to not be treated like criminals without reasonable cause. We are making their deaths cheap and pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Yes. The TSA isn't patting people down because the government has decided that airplane passengers are inferior and so deserve to be humiliated. The pat-downs are a security measure created in the wake of several instances of people trying to sneak small explosives onto planes. This isn't "abuse." It's a policy that bothers some people, I think because we're so puritanical in our culture that we can't accept somebody touching our bodies, in even the most professional and cursory way, as anything other than inappropriately sexual. To even think of comparing this "abuse" to what happened in Nazi Germany is ridiculous. As well as EXTREMELY offensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aura Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think the policy bothers people more, not because they "can't accept somebody touching our bodies, in even the most professional and cursory way" but because the policy is ineffiecient at best, most likely ineffective, and at worst, exactly what you say it isn't--a policy designed to humilate. The pat-downs are a security measure created in the wake of several instances of people trying to sneak small explosives onto planes. The problem I have is that these security measures do a very poor job of actually protecting anyone. It's all reactionary. It's just waiting for another suicidal terrorist comes up a DIFFERENT way of killing us, then after thousands die that way, then they'll do ... what? Come up with some other after-the-fact way to supposedly protect us? I agree w/ a pp...it's security theatre. Which means that this... The TSA isn't patting people down because the government has decided that airplane passengers are inferior and so deserve to be humiliated. suddenly doesn't seem so ludicrous. To them, we are inferior. They don't actually have to protect us, just say they are. So if I continue down this train of thought, look where it leads me... IF, these measures don't really protect us BUT, they keep saying that they do THEN, they must believe I'm unintelligent and inferior to them. IF, they believe that I'm inferior to them THEN, they start reminding me of bullies who humilate their victims and then laugh at them. I agree, though, that To even think of comparing this "abuse" to what happened in Nazi Germany is ridiculous. But the abuse by the Nazi's didn't happen overnight. This, I believe, is a more accurate statement: To even think of comparing this "abuse" to facilitating what happened in Nazi Germany is not ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I wouldn't disagree that, overall, we are seeing lots of erosion of rights. Black men are being disenfranchised at alarming rates, due to felony disenfranchisement laws and the extremely unequal and unjust ways that laws, especially drug laws, are enforced and applied. Government agents are infiltrating mosques and spying on people involved in peaceful, legal worship. We've got a serious contender for the GOP presidential nomination arguing that communities should be legally able to ban mosques if they want. People accused of certain crimes are held without any of the rights and protections that are supposed to be afforded to them. The rights of workers to unionize is being continually undermined and restricted. Employers are being allowed more and more access to and control over the lives of their employees and potential employees. And there are many, many more examples of how our rights as citizens are being eroded. But, being patted down at the airport is just not one of those examples. If you can honestly look at our country and think that TSA pat-downs are a horribly egregious offense against individual liberty, then you are coming from a place of enormous privilege and should count yourself very, very lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Ah, but is there a difference aside from the severity of abuse? The motive is different. Does that make it OK? Yes. The TSA isn't patting people down because the government has decided that airplane passengers are inferior and so deserve to be humiliated. The pat-downs are a security measure created in the wake of several instances of people trying to sneak small explosives onto planes. This isn't "abuse." It's a policy that bothers some people, I think because we're so puritanical in our culture that we can't accept somebody touching our bodies, in even the most professional and cursory way, as anything other than inappropriately sexual. To even think of comparing this "abuse" to what happened in Nazi Germany is ridiculous. You didn't address the 2nd part of my post (bolded above). It sounds as if you think the TSA policy is OK b/c the motives are different. I disagree with your 2nd paragraph entirely. The TSA policy *is* abuse. The phrase "that bothers some people" truly belittles the concerns of Americans who disagree with these policies. Let's address the concerns instead. This isn't a matter of prudish puritanicals "bothered" by a safety policy. This is a matter of American Citizens outraged at policies that, at the core, are illegal. If I were touched in the manner that TSA officials touch, I would press charges. Period. Calling abuse "professional and cursory" doesn't make it less....abusive, for lack of a better term. This part is absolutely comparable to the mindset of Nazi Germany. That one case murdered people and another case merely groped genetalia is a matter of severity. *Neither* are acceptable, and saying as much doesn't insult those who suffered by the hands of the Nazi's. On the contrary, accepting this mindset from any government is a gross insult, for their suffering would be in vain. As far as it depends upon me, I will not allow that horrific chapter in history repeat itself!!! ....like the frog in the kettle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I wouldn't disagree that, overall, we are seeing lots of erosion of rights. Black men are being disenfranchised at alarming rates, due to felony disenfranchisement laws and the extremely unequal and unjust ways that laws, especially drug laws, are enforced and applied. Government agents are infiltrating mosques and spying on people involved in peaceful, legal worship. We've got a serious contender for the GOP presidential nomination arguing that communities should be legally able to ban mosques if they want. People accused of certain crimes are held without any of the rights and protections that are supposed to be afforded to them. The rights of workers to unionize is being continually undermined and restricted. Employers are being allowed more and more access to and control over the lives of their employees and potential employees. And there are many, many more examples of how our rights as citizens are being eroded. But, being patted down at the airport is just not one of those examples. If you can honestly look at our country and think that TSA pat-downs are a horribly egregious offense against individual liberty, then you are coming from a place of enormous privilege and should count yourself very, very lucky. But, many Americans disagree with you. Many Americans believe that the TSA pat-downs are one of the worst cases of eroding rights. Please define "place of enormous privilege" b/c I'm trying to understand how it's a privilege (not a right) to have say over who touches ones own body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The comparison is fair, it is the early stages of a slow erosion of all of our basic rights. The Nazi's did not take over violently and overnight, they were elected. EXACTLY. This exactly. Right on. Absolutely. TSA. Reach out and touch someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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