Parents and children flying-what not to do

[gardening momma]

Please explain what my attitude is. If I paid for a seat, I expect to be able to sit down and read or sleep on the flight, maybe get up once or twice to go to the bathroom, depending on the length of the flight. I don't think I should be expected to make adjustments for someone who did not buy a ticket.

You think having a seat for the 2 year old will magically fix everything? And why does having paid for a seat automatically mean you will not be disturbed by children? Who is asking you to make adjustments for children? That's not what my posts were about.

[gardening momma]

Because you did not buy your child a ticket. You deserve only the consideration of the space you paid for like I said already. If your child is taking up more space, then yes the other passenger, who you have described as nice, does deserve some credit. You were doing no more than expected.

My child did not take up any extra space.

[july19]

July19, your level of anxiety around this isn't healthy or helping you. You are a fully capable mom. You'll be fine. People are allowed to be annoyed at kids (or adults) on planes. It's a recipe for frustration for everyone concerned.

 

I'm not sure why you are travelling, or why you are so emotional right now. There is no need to let this fear and these threads ruin the time between now and your trip or your trip. No, not everyone is sophisticated, seasoned travellers. Your money is as good as anyone else's and you deserve to be on that plan just as much as whoever sits next to you.

 

{{hugs}}

 

Emotional and anxiety ridden because usually, I am Miss Plans Everything Perfect. I research everything to the point where it's a little pathetic and this vacation has been a real challenge :lol:

 

I think I'm just emotional at the "what could" happen. Which logically - I know - doesn't help to worry about it now. But I still do it. I just keep picturing my son sitting there without my husband or I with him and being scared. He is a pretty durable kid, but he's never flown before and he's really pretty nervous. The airline phone call this morning was pretty non-eventful (there aren't two seats available that are next to each other) but we can discuss asking to switch with someone at boarding. She was very friendly and understanding.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure the tears are more from the not sleeping :tongue_smilie:

[bettyandbob]

You think having a seat for the 2 year old will magically fix everything? And why does having paid for a seat automatically mean you will not be disturbed by children? Who is asking you to make adjustments for children? That's not what my posts were about.

 

 

well the tread was originally related to lap children. And IME having a ticket for a child does provide a little more maneuverability for parent and child and as a result, less disturbing of other passengers.

 

And for the record, I have no problem helping out. I have a problem with someone expecting me to help out. I'm offended by the attitude that I should accommodate when really, that is a choice that should be left to me.

[flossboss]

Changing diapers right next to you??? I think I'm going to be sick!!!:eek:

 

IMHO, there is an unspoken "code" between mothers. I'm happy to remain patient with a rambunctious toddler. I'm happy to giggle in return when having goldfish crackers launched at my head. I'm happy to help in any way I can when a mom is "fighting" with her little one, especially in a constrictive environment such as a plane.....but there's a definite line in the sand. I would have NEVER changed my son's diaper next to someone on a plane unless it was an absolute emergency! That's just gross, number one. Number two, it shows a complete lack of concern and respect for the well-being of those around you.

 

Just because people fly with kids does NOT give them the right to abandon all common courtesy, respect and RULES!!!

[Daisy]

Kinda shocked by some of the responses here. When I fly I always kind of having a feeling of "we're all in this together". Like others have said, flying these days sucks. It's intrusive, expensive, and generally not on schedule. I've flown with parents with annoying little kids, people who are so overweight that my petite self is cramped up against a window so I wouldn't be physically touching them for four hours, very slow moving elderly people, and the worst - people who want to talk to you the whole flight while you're in the middle of a good book.

 

I try to be gracious and understanding to all those people. They're just as unhappy about the situation as I am. Flying sucks all around and really we should just be as nice and kind as possible and realize that people aren't doing things just to bother us.

 

:iagree: Amen!

 

If you want more personal space, I guess the airline figures you will pay for first class. Flying used to be fun, but now it often feels like being stuck below decks on an overcrowded ocean-crossing voyage with 200 other sweating bodies. We all make do, hopefully not losing our manners in the process.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Daisy

[ByGrace3]

Because you did not buy your child a ticket. You deserve only the consideration of the space you paid for like I said already. If your child is taking up more space, then yes the other passenger, who you have described as nice, does deserve some credit. You were doing no more than expected.

 

But according to airline policy I don't have to. It is within my rights to have my under 2 year old on my lap. What makes your rights more important than mine? Seems like these issues (loud toys, changing, etc) would still be a factor whether or not the child had his own seat. I do not ever "expect" help from other passengers, but if my family is split up I do expect people to be reasonable and do what they can, just as I would do for them. I would not have expected the OP and her dh be split up, but if there was any way for them to move together, I think that would have been the right thing to do. We all coexist in this world and yes I do expect common courtesy from people. While you certainly have the right to think, "it is my right to not be inconvenienced by anyone", it would lead to a miserable coexistence if we all had this attitude.

 

Obviously many have strong feelings on this subject, I would just encourage that we be cautious in our assertions of our rights when we declare our own rights to usurp the rights of others.

[Daisy]

Changing diapers right next to you??? I think I'm going to be sick!!!:eek:

 

IMHO, there is an unspoken "code" between mothers. I'm happy to remain patient with a rambunctious toddler. I'm happy to giggle in return when having goldfish crackers launched at my head. I'm happy to help in any way I can when a mom is "fighting" with her little one, especially in a constrictive environment such as a plane.....but there's a definite line in the sand. I would have NEVER changed my son's diaper next to someone on a plane unless it was an absolute emergency! That's just gross, number one. Number two, it shows a complete lack of concern and respect for the well-being of those around you.

 

Just because people fly with kids does NOT give them the right to abandon all common courtesy, respect and RULES!!!

 

Where should she have done it? I'm genuinely curious where all of you think there is room to change a diaper on a flight? Bathroom is OUT. So where?

 

I agree it is gross but I'm wondering what this mother should have done.

[Jennifer3141]

You think having a seat for the 2 year old will magically fix everything? And why does having paid for a seat automatically mean you will not be disturbed by children? Who is asking you to make adjustments for children? That's not what my posts were about.

 

 

:iagree:

 

And I think the attitude you are referencing here is very telling for us as a people. I have been so much more bothered by adults out in public and on planes than I've ever been by children. I sometimes watch kids breaking down on planes and I want to go over to them and just wail away with them. It doesn't matter WHERE you put a 2 year old sometimes, cram them in the overhead or the in-flight microwave, whatever... Sometimes a 2 year old is going to be a 2 year old. An extra seat is going to do squat for that.

 

But we have this attitude in the US that little people just don't count as much as adults.

 

I'd rather sit on a plane full of 2 year olds than half the derelicts we traveled with last time. Make that breastfeeding 2 year olds whio despise discrete blankets over their heads with dirty diapers!!! :D

[LidiyaDawn]

Changing diapers right next to you??? I think I'm going to be sick!!!:eek:

 

 

 

Where else can you do it?? Maybe you all have different planes down there, but none of the ones I've been on had enough room to change a baby in the bathroom….. there was a toilet and a sink. No change table, no flip down board, not even a flat surface of ANY sort. Nowhere to set the baby down in there, period.

[bettyandbob]

But according to airline policy I don't have to. It is within my rights to have my under 2 year old on my lap. What makes your rights more important than mine?

 

 

You paid for the right to a certain space. If you choose to put yourself and a toddler in that space it is your choice. You should not expect more rights because you put more than one person in the space. Why should you get more rights because you put two people in a seat than another passenger?

[Pretty in Pink]

There is no designated place to change a baby on a plane. None. So your choices are to attempt to do it in the restroom (if you child can stand up and if you can change a wet diaper while your child stands up, and if you are a tiny person who is able to maneuver a wiggly toddler in that small space) or...what? I guess you could leave the lavatory door open, lay out you changing mat on the floor inside, and then squat in the aisle outside the door and tend to the diaper change.

 

Someone else suggested only changing soiled diapers which can most certainly not be done standing up. I suppose one could ask a flight attendant if they could go in the back and use the [flight attendant's] bench seat to change the baby on. Is that rude, too? I mean, the flight attendant probably doesn't want his or her seat used as a changing table...

Edited June 26, 2011 by Pretty in Pink

[StaceyinLA]

Where would you do it if not on your lap? And really people - baby/toddler poop is just not. that. disgusting. It's certainly not so disgusting as to be offensive in that situation (when one has no other option). Sometimes people's lack of tolerance just irritates me.

 

And I agree with another poster who says we aren't a country who is very family oriented. I do not see babies/children as a nuisance, and I would offer to help in whatever capacity I could.

[melissel]

:iagree:

 

And I think the attitude you are referencing here is very telling for us as a people. I have been so much more bothered by adults out in public and on planes than I've ever been by children. I sometimes watch kids breaking down on planes and I want to go over to them and just wail away with them. It doesn't matter WHERE you put a 2 year old sometimes, cram them in the overhead or the in-flight microwave, whatever... Sometimes a 2 year old is going to be a 2 year old. An extra seat is going to do squat for that.

 

But we have this attitude in the US that little people just don't count as much as adults.

 

I'd rather sit on a plane full of 2 year olds than half the derelicts we traveled with last time. Make that breastfeeding 2 year olds whio despise discrete blankets over their heads with dirty diapers!!! :D

 

Actually, I think that little people count exactly as much as adults, which is why they deserve their own seats, with their own safety gear, just like everyone else on the plane. I don't think they deserve to be crammed on laps, personally. Both of my kids, at that age, would have been mightily ticked to be forced to stay in arms or on a lap. They would have wanted their own space too.

 

As someone else said, trying to force the small space of an airline seat to accommodate two people and all the associated gear is frustrating to everyone involved. I'm one who would have been happy to help out with a kid in his or her own seat, and would have been completely sympathetic to fussiness etc. But I would not be sympathetic to a parent who was bumping and jostling and inconveniencing me because they didn't want to pay for an extra seat for their kid and all her toys, clothes, diapers, bottles, etc. In fact, I'd rather sit next to the child than the adult who was doing those things.

 

(And personally, the diaper thing alone would not have bothered me--I'd rather have a changed kid than a smelly or leaky or uncomfortable one next to me. Even wet diapers stink!)

 

ETA: My apologies. I just went back and re-read the OP. I though the mom was sitting NEXT to Chris and her husband. That would bother me. From across the aisle, I'd expect to see the child/noise/changing etc. whether the kid had a seat or not. I think that's just part of having a kid on a plane.

Edited June 26, 2011 by melissel

[Aelwydd]

Look, I'm a big flaming liberal socialist, and as such, I tend to think that community ought to be willing to help each other out, and be courteous towards each other. I'm sympathetic to both sides in this debate.

 

On one hand, I worked as a ticketing and gate agent for an airline several years ago, and I've also been a mother traveling with a 6 month old baby. I'm a very big proponent of eliminating the "under 2 can fly without a seat" exception, because when I was in the business, I regularly dealt with flight attendants and pilots who had braved some very rough flights. One of my trainers had his arm broken when a flight he was on hit an air pocket and caused him to slam into the bulkhead.

 

Rough landings and flights mean that unsecured lappers become air bags for their parents. If holding a child in your lap when a car hits something going 60 mph is a bad idea, it's just as bad, if not worse when you're traveling at 120 mph during a landing with rough crosswinds, and a big slam on the pavement. Rough flights are becoming more common, not less, with all the volatile weather patterns that are becoming the new norm.

 

That is why, when I was an agent, I did everything I could to get infants with their own seats. I would always seek to put a courtesy block on a seat next to a parent, and tell them to take their infant seat with them so their baby could be buckled in. It was tricky to do this on full flights, but the airline I worked for encouraged the agents to do their best to get every infant or baby a seat, even though it wasn't making any money on it. The reason? Safety.

 

When my ds was 6 months old, we flew from PA to TX for my sister's wedding. I made sure we had an extra seat for ds, and he never cried or made a sound on either flight. I was lucky that he was such an easy going baby. It's much harder when they get to be a year and older. We did not fly again with ds until he was 7 years old, which was quite manageable. We went to Disney World, and the flight we took out of DFW was a heavy business flight, so ds was the only child on the whole flight. Dh, ds, and I all sat in the same row, thanks to previous seat assignments (we bought our tickets 3 months early--this helps to get seat assignments together). The businessmen and women around us were really friendly and chatted with ds, and were very patient (they were veterans at flying, they take it all in stride).

 

So, when I'm in a flight, I try to be accommodating and considerate of other parents who are traveling with small kids. I will say that the only thing that really bothers me is when a parent uses a food tray to change their baby's diaper. That's not only a disagreeable sight to other passengers, it's a public health issue. This is where an extra seat would come in handy, for space! I understand that airlines have reduced space so much that parents have little choice; that's why I wish that huge groups of parents would demand some sort of space accommodation set aside on planes, the way that pro-bf'ers have lobbied successfully for bf'ing rooms in businesses and at work in many places.

 

Anyway, to sum up this long rambling post, I was reminded by this thread of Dave Barry's classic column piece, "Flying with Baby." I read it again and made me giggle.

[Danestress]

well how I feel about flying with children. I was responding to the comment that adults can be pretty annoying too, and was confirming that. I just want to say for the record, though, that I have no hostility towards parents fying with kids. I am fine with having children around me when I am flying, as long as the parents are making a reasonable effort not to make things too painful for the rest of us. I don't expect kids not to cry or not to be changed. They are kids. I don't expect them to sit still or be particularly quiet. Most parents try really hard and I am delighted to hold a baby or entertain a child (or move to another seat) if that helps a parent out. I would far rather sit next to the average child than sit in front of an adult who feels compelled to run his or her mouth the entire flight.

[TravelingChris]

I didn't explain the situation that well.

 

There weren't two seats for my husband and me to switch too. Other people who were sitting in one of the two seats were willing to switch with the husband/baby so he could have more seating for himself. Switching one of us would still mean husband and toddler in seat sharing with my dh.

 

No, I don't appreciate little children being annoyances. Yes, I am a long time homeschooling mom. Yes, I have traveled on airplanes. No, my kids never toddled back and forth across aisles. No, I did not change children next to others. I got seats for them and tried to keep them quiet. I did in fact keep them quiet even though I traveled with ADHD children.

 

This was a househunting trip for my husband and myself. My dh travels a lot. He gets tired of traveling. He certainly didn't want to be sitting next to an almost two years old grabbing at his reading materials, food, etc. I didn't appreciate parents not buying a seat for toddler.

 

WOuld I never help a mom with little kids? No, I am sure I would and have in previous times. IF this was mom traveling with two kids and no dad, and she had a ticket for toddler, I would have moved or had my dh move and so she could sit in aisle seat with toddler by window and preschooler across the aisle. But a dad should be able to take acare of a toddler and if not, he should be able to sit next to pre-schooler and keep him occupied while mom takes care of toddler.

[ByGrace3]

 

 

You paid for the right to a certain space. If you choose to put yourself and a toddler in that space it is your choice. You should not expect more rights because you put more than one person in the space. Why should you get more rights because you put two people in a seat than another passenger?

 

I guess I missed the part where the baby took up more space than the mom's lap? :confused:

What more rights would I or any other mom on a plane with a baby be expecting? Just the right to be there is all I can see?

[melissel]

IF this was mom traveling with two kids and no dad, and she had a ticket for toddler, I would have moved or had my dh move and so she could sit in aisle seat with toddler by window and preschooler across the aisle. But a dad should be able to take acare of a toddler and if not, he should be able to sit next to pre-schooler and keep him occupied while mom takes care of toddler.

 

How is this different from kids in a restaurant? Would you object to a toddler going from person to person in a restaurant, with different family members attempting to keep her busy so she wouldn't just melt down and scream?

 

I'm sorry, I was with you when I thought you were the person next to the mom and toddler, but I don't think I can agree otherwise. IMO, just about anything that can be done to keep a baby/toddler happy vs. frustrated and crying on a plane can and should be done.

[Danestress]

I do not think you should be expected to help out either. At all. It's not your job to help out, and you are entitled to have a different agenda. I'm not sure you can expect not to be asked if you would mind switching seats, though. Asking and expecting are two different things.

 

 

 

Please explain what my attitude is. If I paid for a seat, I expect to be able to sit down and read or sleep on the flight,

 

 

 

But this expectation is also not entirely reasonable. It's a public place. if you are able to sleep in public with children crying and women jabbering and men making boorish jokes to the flight attendant, that's great. But chances are, you will find it difficult to sleep in a noisy public place like that and then feel annoyed about what is just reality. You can't really control it.

 

I expect to be left alone on a flight (though I likely would offer to help with a child) but I'm not sure I expect to be able to really just relax and fall asleep. I've had a few times when I sat next to a very large person who took up his/her seat and half of mine. I didn't love it, but you know, when you buy a ticket, you take your chances. I know in advance that young children are allowed to sit on their parents' laps in flight and that I may be sitting next to that. I know that I might sit in front of a group of people traveling together who talk the entire flight. I know the people around me might be extra large or might have special needs. It's a public place. You have to deal with the public on flights. There are limits, but in general, you can expect to have loud people, smelly people, rude people, and restless people around you. But you are welcome to be annoyed by it - I certainly am sometimes.

[8circles]

:iagree: Amen!

 

If you want more personal space, I guess the airline figures you will pay for first class. Flying used to be fun, but now it often feels like being stuck below decks on an overcrowded ocean-crossing voyage with 200 other sweating bodies. We all make due, hopefully not losing our manners in the process.

 

This is why I find Americans' claim to family values ring hollow. People in other countries hold your baby for you and give screaming kids a candy.

 

Where would you do it if not on your lap? And really people - baby/toddler poop is just not. that. disgusting. It's certainly not so disgusting as to be offensive in that situation (when one has no other option). Sometimes people's lack of tolerance just irritates me.

 

And I agree with another poster who says we aren't a country who is very family oriented. I do not see babies/children as a nuisance, and I would offer to help in whatever capacity I could.

 

I do not think you should be expected to help out either. At all. It's not your job to help out, and you are entitled to have a different agenda. I'm not sure you can expect not to be asked if you would mind switching seats, though. Asking and expecting are two different things.

 

 

 

But this expectation is also not entirely reasonable. It's a public place. if you are able to sleep in public with children crying and women jabbering and men making boorish jokes to the flight attendant, that's great. But chances are, you will find it difficult to sleep in a noisy public place like that and then feel annoyed about what is just reality. You can't really control it.

 

I expect to be left alone on a flight (though I likely would offer to help with a child) but I'm not sure I expect to be able to really just relax and fall asleep. I've had a few times when I sat next to a very large person who took up his/her seat and half of mine. I didn't love it, but you know, when you buy a ticket, you take your chances. I know in advance that young children are allowed to sit on their parents' laps in flight and that I may be sitting next to that. I know that I might sit in front of a group of people traveling together who talk the entire flight. I know the people around me might be extra large or might have special needs. It's a public place. You have to deal with the public on flights. There are limits, but in general, you can expect to have loud people, smelly people, rude people, and restless people around you. But you are welcome to be annoyed by it - I certainly am sometimes.

:iagree: With all these posts.

[TravelingChris]

The mom had the baby sitting on the tray about half the time of the 1.5 hour flight. This wasn't a coast to coast flight. I would have changed diapers before the flight and after the flight. She changed about midway. There was room by the bathroom to do the same manouver. Was it spacious? No but I don't get why a toddler needs to be changed to pajamas on a 1.5 hour flight when it was obvious she hadn't messed her clothes. These were two different changes= one pajama and later diaper.

 

I have traveled with lots of people's kids around me. I know they make noises-etc. IN fact, the main noisemaker in this family was the clueless mom who insisted on loudly reading annoying stories to no one since her preschooler was engaged in some electronic game with headphones and her toddler was toddling, eating or sitting with dad in the seat behind me when this was going on. BUt the thing that really, really bugged me was the kid on the tray. I have never seen this and don't think it is proper.

 

Oh and my attitude for plane flying is survival- flying twenty five or thirty pound toddlers is not something I like. Oh and I have been squished by immensely fat people- when I did fly with my then two year old son cross country, he was in a car seat (approved for flying), I was next to him, and an extremely overweight women was on the other side of me. I was basically sat on from LA to St Louis where we very happily changed planes. I think that was tied to my other worse flight- being on a very delayed flight where we finally pull out, the lights flicker so a passenger freaks out, we have to pull back in, take out their luggage, the flight crew times out, we have to wait for relief crew to fly in from CA, then there are huge thunderstorms so we divert way over the ocean (we were on our second leg from Belgium to NY and this was NY to Orlando). Instead of arriving at 7pm, we got to Orlando at 3am and arrived to a mess where Delta had lost a planeload of luggage. We got to the hotel at 4am and they gave us a room that was already occupied. I think that was probably the worse- oh and my cat soiled his kennel because he was locked up from 7pm to 3am and couldn't take it anymore.

[bettyandbob]

But this expectation is also not entirely reasonable. It's a public place. if you are able to sleep in public with children crying and women jabbering and men making boorish jokes to the flight attendant, that's great. But chances are, you will find it difficult to sleep in a noisy public place like that and then feel annoyed about what is just reality. You can't really control it.

 

No, I am absolutely aware that planes are noisy. I should have said "try" to read or "try" to sleep. Mostly my expectation is to be left alone. If I decide to engage with another passenger, that is my choice. It should not be the expectation that I help some other passenger or that I should entertain some passenger's child. If I want to I will. There should not be an expectation.

 

BTW diaper changing on the food tray grosses me out. I guess I need more sanitizing wipes.

[Impish]

How is this different from kids in a restaurant? Would you object to a toddler going from person to person in a restaurant, with different family members attempting to keep her busy so she wouldn't just melt down and scream?

 

I'm sorry, I was with you when I thought you were the person next to the mom and toddler, but I don't think I can agree otherwise. IMO, just about anything that can be done to keep a baby/toddler happy vs. frustrated and crying on a plane can and should be done.

If the toddler is be bopping around to other tables, not just at the table where they're seated, I'd absolutely object. I'm there for my dining pleasure, not to have some strange kid show up at my table and interrupt.

 

I don't see where a child has the right to disrupt a plane full of people. Yes, children have rights, but not to the point of negatively effecting those around them.

[melissel]

 

No, I am absolutely aware that planes are noisy. I should have said "try" to read or "try" to sleep. Mostly my expectation is to be left alone. If I decide to engage with another passenger, that is my choice. It should not be the expectation that I help some other passenger or that I should entertain some passenger's child. If I want to I will. There should not be an expectation.

 

BTW diaper changing on the food tray grosses me out. I guess I need more sanitizing wipes.

 

I don't think she said the mom changed the baby on the tray table, did she? I thought the kid was just sitting on the tray table. Though I do wonder how the tray table took the weight--my experience with airplane tray tables is that your lucky if your lunch doesn't weight it down.

 

If the toddler is be bopping around to other tables, not just at the table where they're seated, I'd absolutely object. I'm there for my dining pleasure, not to have some strange kid show up at my table and interrupt.

 

I don't see where a child has the right to disrupt a plane full of people. Yes, children have rights, but not to the point of negatively effecting those around them.

 

It sounds to me like the child was crossing the aisle, back and forth, not going up and down the aisles from person to person. Unless I missed something?

 

If the OP was being bumped, jostled, screamed at, kicked, expected to entertain or assist, etc., I am completely sympathetic. But otherwise (and contrary to my original take on this), it sounds like the child was making child noises, the parents were making parent noises, the changing of clothes was happening, all across the aisle, just in the line of vision and hearing. It's a public space. Other people make choices that you wouldn't, but if that's unacceptable to you, then you should stay out of public spaces then, probably. Honestly, it's a little odd to change the clothes on a short flight, but then, it would never occur to me NOT to change clothes if I wasn't smacking my elbow into the person next to me while doing it. It wouldn't occur to me that changing the kid into pajamas would bother someone two feet away, in a seat disconnected from my own. I don't see how the child having a seat on the flight would have made any of this any different. I really don't. And I say that from a position of firmly believing that babies and toddlers should be in carseats on a plane.

 

And Chris, you mention that your husband has to travel a lot and you were worried about his frustration level and rights. I'm sure this mom was just as worried about her own family's frustration level and rights. I would have done as you did and not switched away from my husband in this case, both because I'd want to sit with him and because I'd want to act as his buffer. Beyond that, I don't think this family did anything wrong.

Edited June 26, 2011 by melissel

[Pretty in Pink]

No, I don't appreciate little children being annoyances. Yes, I am a long time homeschooling mom. Yes, I have traveled on airplanes. No, my kids never toddled back and forth across aisles. No, I did not change children next to others. Where did you change their diapers? Or were you fortunate never to have traveled with a diapered child, or on any flight during which your diapered child did need to be changed?

 

If you were across the aisle then how was the child changed next to you? Were they changed in the aisle? Is that worse than if the parent *had* purchased the toddler a seat of his or her own and then used it to change the baby on? (And I'd like to re-state that I am in the 'every passenger should have their own seat camp', but I don't see how that would have alleviated the complaint about the diaper change).

 

I got seats for them and tried to keep them quiet. I did in fact keep them quiet even though I traveled with ADHD children. That's great. It has been my experience that there are times during which I am absolutely unable to keep my toddlers quiet. For that reason, I do choose to forego some activities and places when I have a toddler in tow (movie theaters, for example) and when I cannot avoid these things I try to position myself so that a speedy exit is possible; however, that obviously isn't an option on an airplane.

 

/

[Nakia]

The last time we flew was 3 years ago when we flew to Orlando for a Disney trip. I am so thankful that 1) a couple of people traded seats with us so we could all sit closer together, and 2) my two year old slept most of the way there and back.

 

I get annoyed with both the intolerance shown by so many people, and even more so, with the sense of entitlement many people have. Not just on this board, but in life in general.

[HSmomNY]

Flying with infants and toddlers is NOT fun.

This thread has reminded me why we are planning to drive to florida from NY rather then fly with a toddler.

My thanks to all who understand that parents can't alway keep babies and toddler either quiet or still. :)

 

I am also very disapointed that some parents are unable to cut traveling parents even a little slack. :confused:

[july19]

Flying with infants and toddlers is NOT fun.

This thread has reminded me why we are planning to drive to florida from NY rather then fly with a toddler.

My thanks to all who understand that parents can't alway keep babies and toddler either quiet or still. :)

 

I am also very disapointed that some parents are unable to cut traveling parents even a little slack. :confused:

 

:iagree:

[The Governess]

I have flown domestically and internationally with babies and toddlers. I try my best to keep them from bothering others. I also hope that other passengers notice that I am trying my best and so when there is an occasional disruption they will cut me a little slack.

 

A few things stand out to me from the OP. First, I can't imagine letting a baby sit on a tray. Not only is it unsafe, but I can't imagine how the person feels who is sitting in the seat attached to that tray! I always make sure my kids under no circumstances touch the seat in front of them because I know how annoying it can be to have your seat kicked and pulled on. Second, I would never change a diaper in an airplane seat. It's just too close quarters and I think it's disrespectful to inflict a dirty diaper on everyone sitting around you. I have .

Edited January 10, 2013 by lovelearnandlive

[DianeW88]

I haven't read the previous responses, so pardon me if all of this has been mentioned...and it probably has. LOL

 

We have flown many, many times with our children, starting when they are only a couple months old. My best advice....be prepared.

 

I bring a carry-on for each of my kids filled with treats (yes, they get candy when we fly...sue me....:D), toys (small, but all new), activity books, travel games, etc., etc. They are all new things and always a surprise that they have to wait until we are on the airplane to start playing with. The gifts are also conditioned upon their good behavior. In short....I bribe them (although they are well behaved generally and public temper tantrums were not a common occurence with any of them).

 

I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my children are quiet and busy on the airplane and that they don't disturb others around us. NOTHING is more miserable than sitting on an airplane having to listen to a temper tantrum, screaming and crying for hour after hour from an out of control child and a parent who can't cope with it. A little preparation goes a long way.

[Joanne]

Flying with infants and toddlers is NOT fun.

This thread has reminded me why we are planning to drive to florida from NY rather then fly with a toddler.

My thanks to all who understand that parents can't alway keep babies and toddler either quiet or still. :)

 

I am also very disapointed that some parents are unable to cut traveling parents even a little slack. :confused:

 

This assumes a lot. I cut parents of littles slack on public transportation, restaurants, church and mixed age gatherings. I have seen parents who did the best they could *nd parents who have fallen short.

 

To the poster about poop not being "that bad"......... I think it is perfectly reasonable to not want to be nearby a diapering event of a child that is not yours. I didn't want to be around dsome diapering events that were my kids! ;)

[DaffodilDreams]

 

I am also very disapointed that some parents are unable to cut traveling parents even a little slack. :confused:

 

I totally agree with this. There was a time in my life (pre-parenthood) where I would have been the worst for tolerating travelers with kids, but having flown often - both domestic and overseas - with a little one, I now have a tremendous amount of empathy for fellow travelers with children in tow. I did my best to not annoy others and I always bought dd a seat (even on int'l flights - and really, it was for our own comfort - not thinking of anyone else in that decision, though I certainly would have been within my rights to have her on my lap), but there's only so much you can do when a little one is involved. You cannot control their mood, their bodily functions, or their need to move their little bodies. You can sometimes control hunger and thirst, but even that's becoming more difficult now with all the restrictions. I did learn to control ear pain by pre-medicating per ped's advice.

 

On one int'l flight, we were the mother and child everyone hated. Dd was almost two (had her own seat, by they way!), and had a very long, no stopping it, meltdown - in business class, no less. I was mortified because we were such a distraction, worried about dd, scared that this would never end, tired myself, etc. I closeted us in the bathroom to try to give ourselves and other people some relief, but I know dd could still be heard. At one point, we were flocked by about 5 attendants all in her face trying to do something to calm her down, but that just made it worse. So I know what it's like to be that parent and that child. It's not anymore fun for us than for the rest of the passengers - in fact, it's most likely worse because we have the added element of guilt.

 

I am really astounded and quite sad that any parent having flown with little kids would have little tolerance for other families now in that situation, despite whether the child is in a lap or a seat. Now, if the child is a holy terror - running up and down the aisle, throwing stuff at other passengers, etc. - then, yes, I can understand the displeasure, but it doesn't sound like this was the case. I really hope - in all situations throughout life - that I never forget what it was like to be where others are now.

[aggieamy]

I totally agree with this. There was a time in my life (pre-parenthood) where I would have been the worst for tolerating travelers with kids, but having flown often - both domestic and overseas - with a little one, I now have a tremendous amount of empathy for fellow travelers with children in tow. I did my best to not annoy others and I always bought dd a seat (even on int'l flights - and really, it was for our own comfort - not thinking of anyone else in that decision, though I certainly would have been within my rights to have her on my lap), but there's only so much you can do when a little one is involved. You cannot control their mood, their bodily functions, or their need to move their little bodies. You can sometimes control hunger and thirst, but even that's becoming more difficult now with all the restrictions. I did learn to control ear pain by pre-medicating per ped's advice.

 

On one int'l flight, we were the mother and child everyone hated. Dd was almost two (had her own seat, by they way!), and had a very long, no stopping it, meltdown - in business class, no less. I was mortified because we were such a distraction, worried about dd, scared that this would never end, tired myself, etc. I closeted us in the bathroom to try to give ourselves and other people some relief, but I know dd could still be heard. At one point, we were flocked by about 5 attendants all in her face trying to do something to calm her down, but that just made it worse. So I know what it's like to be that parent and that child. It's not anymore fun for us than for the rest of the passengers - in fact, it's most likely worse because we have the added element of guilt.

 

I am really astounded and quite sad that any parent having flown with little kids would have little tolerance for other families now in that situation, despite whether the child is in a lap or a seat. Now, if the child is a holy terror - running up and down the aisle, throwing stuff at other passengers, etc. - then, yes, I can understand the displeasure, but it doesn't sound like this was the case. I really hope - in all situations throughout life - that I never forget what it was like to be where others are now.

 

Incredibly wise words here.

[bzymom]

I have flown with little ones many times. On one trip, we boarded the plane for 4 kids, ages 3 months to 11 years. We had seats together, but a couple behind us immediately (and loudly) summoned the flight attendant to request "seats away from all these kids." My kids read, colored and slept for the duration of the flight. Not a peep from the baby. But the seats the couple moved to were in front of a mom with another infant. THAT baby screamed nearly the entire flight.

 

I know most of us work very hard to be considerate of other passengers, and minimize the intrusion/irritation of our children. Some do not, and it is readily apparent to others. This is true on planes, trains, subways, or just walking through the market.

 

We now avoid flying whenever possible. Changes in airline policies have made security checks a nightmare, and every single flight is jam-packed, which leaves everybody feeling cramped and stressed.

[Dmmetler]

I am thanking my lucky stars that I was blessed with DD as an infant, since we traveled so often! See, DD was one of those babies who was instantly alert and had a high need for stimulation, and loved to people watch. I'm convinced that one reason why I lost the pregnancy weight gain so fast was that I logged many, many miles in Super Target with a baby who, when fussy, would only settle down when there were things around her to see (and, no, TV didn't work. I tried. AAAP statements on screen time for kids under 2 don't apply when it's 3:00 in the morning!). So we'd go, walk around for an hour or so, and then, I'd put her in her carseat and she'd fall asleep on the drive home-at which point I could take her inside and she'd stay asleep. I knew everyone on the night stocking crew, to say the least. During the day, we could at least mix it up a bit!

 

So, when we first had to travel with her, at about 5 months, it was easy. She watched the people in the airport, then fell asleep in her carseat. Same at 8 months, and 9 months, and 12 months, and I think by that point it was a habit, because she STILL, at age 6, loves the airport, loves the moving sidewalks, the trams, and so on, loves talking to people, and then gets in the seat, settles back, and, about half the time, dozes off (until the soda cart gets near our seat-she always wakes up just in time-maybe because that's about the only time she gets to have soda!). The rest of the time, she is more than happy to read or draw. What's more, she does the same on other modes of transportation-she travels better than I do, by a long shot.

 

Nothing I did to cause it, nothing I could do to train that behavior were I to have another child, but I'm very, very glad she does it!

[Jennifer3141]

Transient, I think the problem wans't so much the kids on this flight but that the parents were IDIOTS. Why would you change a diaper on a 1 1/2 hour flight unless it was a poop issue and why would you change clothes on a flight that short? 1 1/2 hours should mean you load the kid up with whatever "food" product/coloring book/quiet toy will keep the kid quiet and keep your head down. You don't hop on a plane figuring you're going to be doing any extraneous maneuvering.

 

The kids weren't the issue - the rather inept parents were.

 

Here's how I feel about flying: you fly coach to get where you're going. Be happy you get there alive and walk away. You're likely going to be seated next to a drunk, a carrier of West Nile who uses your sleeve, a three year old with an ear infection or any combination of the above. It's your job just to survive that flight with enough wits intact to get where you're going.

 

You fly first class: you'd better get a rather luxurious experience or else you'll simply buy that completely overpriced ticket on another airline next time.

 

As far as kids' tickets go, I can easily understand how/why parents don't buy tickets for babies if they aren't required to do so. That's an airline/legal issue, not the fault of the parent. What idiot would say, "Why yes, please do charge me $600 (or whatever) for another plane ticket I might not really need?" I can easily see how inexperienced flyers would think, "I'll just hold my baby all the way across" or whatever. I think buying an extra seat for the space AND safety issue is smart but I can definitely see how a family on a budget would compromise on this issue. DH and I bought an extra seat for DD when she was 6 weeks old but we don't like people in our personal spaces really and we were excited we could just have an extra "empty" seat. :D

 

DH didn't want that extra seat at first and fought me on it because he figured if we go down, we're all going to die anyway and we'd frankly rather die holding DD. It's like jumping out of a plane with no parachute and a helmet. The helmet is basically wearing YOU for protection. :D

But I knew our personalities and I knew we'd want that extra seat. And we were new parents. Remember when you first child would pee and you'd change that diaper before they even stopped dripping? I wanted space for that.

 

DH didn't fight me on the extra seats for the next trip, or on moving up to first class. We hate flying THAT much.

 

Now when we fly, I make sure to smile at everyone's babies and coo at the moms. Because I really do think flying with cranky babies and mean, judgmental passengers may be one of Dante's levels. Hug those moms, give them candy or wine or cash or whatever. Because that just may be the WORST time of their lives. You've got the rest of your life to read your book. Just be happy you get there alive.

[JessReplanted]

Now when we fly, I make sure to smile at everyone's babies and coo at the moms. Because I really do think flying with cranky babies and mean, judgmental passengers may be one of Dante's levels. Hug those moms, give them candy or wine or cash or whatever. Because that just may be the WORST time of their lives. You've got the rest of your life to read your book. Just be happy you get there alive.

 

:iagree: Flying with small children can be absolutely miserable. I have done it myself many, many times.

[zaichiki]

Where should she have done it? I'm genuinely curious where all of you think there is room to change a diaper on a flight? Bathroom is OUT. So where?

 

I agree it is gross but I'm wondering what this mother should have done.

 

The last time I flew with my infant I found a changing table attached to the wall above the toilet in the bathroom. It folded right down over the toilet. It was a tight fit and she and I were in there for a quite a while, but it was easier/roomier than if I had tried to change her in the seat. :001_huh: Can't imagine that!

[eternalknot]

Unless you pay for first class, you kind of have to take what you get when you fly.

 

:lol: One of my regular routes is a three-class transcon, six hours from the east coast to the west coast. We get a lot of babies and toddlers in business class, and sometimes even in first class. I understand why these parents prefer to spend the six hour flight in (more) comfort, but we've had some upset passengers who think they're paying for a quiet, relaxing flight only to still get the coach experience if a young child is having a rough flight. I've seen the same on international flights. No cabin is exempt!

 

I still do not understand why the FAA and airlines allow "lap children" on planes. It is not safe at all, and there is no way to make it safe.

 

Twice in my life I have been in a plane in which every loose object went flying. Unbuckled children would have been projectiles both times.

 

Pressure from the traveling public and from airlines. People wouldn't fly as much if every child needed a ticket - this has been demonstrated here in this thread! I do agree with you, though, and encourage parents to purchase seats for their under-2s - even if they plan to hold the child for some or much of the flight.

 

That reminds me of when I went flying once with my dd about 6 or maybe 9 months old - small enough to still sit in a maya wrap. The flight attendants told me that I had to take her OUT of the wrap during take-off and landing. It just didn't make any sense to me. Seems completely unsafe.

 

It IS unsafe to have your child on your lap, however it can be just as dangerous -if not more- to have your child strapped to you. I say this as someone who wore her children daily from newborn on up -- wearing a baby is normal in my culture, and in my family, so I'm definitely in favor of it. In most circumstances. Based on things I've seen and experienced personally, plus have heard from others in similar situations ... I firmly believe it's less safe to wear a baby for taxi, takeoff, or turbulence, than it is to hold them. If you want details, LMK. I won't post them here, now, because some may find them disturbing.

 

Flying is not fun, lots of people are stressed over it, and we're crammed in a small space with strangers. The best way to deal with it is to extend grace and help as much as you can; there is always someone worse off than you, or struggling more than you, and remembering to put yourself in their shoes is a good way to make your own issues pale in comparison.

 

I really liked all of your posts to this thread, but most 'specially this one :D

 

Where should she have done it? I'm genuinely curious where all of you think there is room to change a diaper on a flight? Bathroom is OUT. So where?

 

I agree it is gross but I'm wondering what this mother should have done.

 

Most planes have changing tables. Many people can't find them, or don't know/think to ask about them. Yes, they're small spaces. Yes, it's fine to leave the lav door open if you need the space. Yes, it's gross to change a diaper on the seat or on the tray table. Yes, I tell my kids that if a piece of food or candy hits the seat or tray table they're not to eat it (and this, from someone who lets them eat off of the ground anywhere else). Yes, once you're removed from this phase of parenting you get more grossed out by the changing-diapers-anywhere-you-are than you were when you had kids in diapers.

 

My kids were cloth diapered, and I never had a problem changing them in any airplane lav. It wasn't necessarily easy or desireable or even ideal, but it was definitely do-able with some creativity and flexibility.

 

Where would you do it if not on your lap? And really people - baby/toddler poop is just not. that. disgusting. It's certainly not so disgusting as to be offensive in that situation (when one has no other option). Sometimes people's lack of tolerance just irritates me.

 

Poop is poop, and -to me- it's disgusting no matter how adorable (or young) the vehicle it traveled through. I don't mind if that intolerance is found irritating by others because -to me- it's a sanitary issue. Same reason employees must wash hands before returning to work: sanitation. If you're that good that you won't get poop residue on an airplane seat -in this day and age where the pitch is smaller than ever- then you surely can manage to do the same in a lav of the same size. Small babies can be laid down on the toilet lid, larger babies can stand up on the toilet lid.

[zaichiki]

Transient, I think the problem wans't so much the kids on this flight but that the parents were IDIOTS. Why would you change a diaper on a 1 1/2 hour flight unless it was a poop issue and why would you change clothes on a flight that short? 1 1/2 hours should mean you load the kid up with whatever "food" product/coloring book/quiet toy will keep the kid quiet and keep your head down. You don't hop on a plane figuring you're going to be doing any extraneous maneuvering.

 

The kids weren't the issue - the rather inept parents were.

 

I think the key is to try to imagine what sort of challenges those parents *could* have had. We don't know. We weren't in their shoes. Some things that have happened to me (and therefore I can imagine happening to someone else) include --

1. Maybe the parents just barely made that flight for some unknown reason and didn't have time to change the diaper beforehand -- it could have been soaking?

2. Maybe child had a lot to drink (to try to keep occupied? calm?) during the flight and was soaked?

3. Maybe the diaper leaked and wet the clothes and the only extra thing they had was the PJs?

4. Maybe the PJs are part of a calming nightly ritual and the parents were trying anything they could muster to help keep child calm/quiet?

 

In this same vein, is it possible (to pps) that the family *couldn't* purchase another seat? I understand not wanting to do so, if they didn't legally have to, if they expected the child would refuse to sit in it, but what if they booked at the last minute (funeral? family emergency?) and they got the last 3 seats? This happened to me once.

 

Anyway, I agree with the pp who wrote that, instead of judging, perhaps we should try to put ourselves into their shoes. Perhaps we could try to imagine the possibility of extenuating circumstances.

 

Maybe they weren't inept. Maybe they were coping in the best way they could?

[LAmom]

This is a very discouraging thread that I can't believe I just spent 10 minutes reading!

 

I have 4 little ones and have flown several times with them. Toddlers are the hardest! But I am glad that I do not have to pay a full adult ticket price for them.

 

I think as parents we need to be supportive of each other. I hope I never forget what it is like to travel with a bunch of kids (who generally are very well-behaved while flying) and the stress it puts on a mom with young kids. I hope that I remember this time of my life and be that nice older lady offering a hand and reaching out to a young mom, even if it is just a caring smile. YES, some parents are totally inappropriate and let their kids misbehave and do not use proper means to change diapers (I HAVE NEVER BEEN ON A FLIGHT THAT DID NOT HAVE A PULL DOWN CHANGING TABLE IN THE FRONT BATHROOM--tight squeeze but it works IF you need it).

 

Too bad that this conversation even took place. No one enjoys a crappy, disruptive flight. It really stinks when families get split up.....like the time my husband had one kid, I had one kid and the two others were on there own. Sitting with strangers?!! The airline screwed up our seats and when we boarded the flight attendant asked if anyone would switch so we could be together (6yo,4yo,2yo, baby) and we got many nasty stares--we all stood there for about 5 minutes humiliated. Then a sweet older couple gave up sitting with each other so our kids did not have to be alone. BLESS THEM.

 

Just be gracious and forgiving of us moms with little ones. MANY (not all!!) try very hard to not be disruptive.

[kitten18]

Kinda shocked by some of the responses here. When I fly I always kind of having a feeling of "we're all in this together". Like others have said, flying these days sucks. It's intrusive, expensive, and generally not on schedule. I've flown with parents with annoying little kids, people who are so overweight that my petite self is cramped up against a window so I wouldn't be physically touching them for four hours, very slow moving elderly people, and the worst - people who want to talk to you the whole flight while you're in the middle of a good book.

 

I try to be gracious and understanding to all those people. They're just as unhappy about the situation as I am. Flying sucks all around and really we should just be as nice and kind as possible and realize that people aren't doing things just to bother us.

:iagree:

[AndyJoy]

Most planes have changing tables. Many people can't find them, or don't know/think to ask about them. Yes, they're small spaces. Yes, it's fine to leave the lav door open if you need the space. Yes, it's gross to change a diaper on the seat or on the tray table. Yes, I tell my kids that if a piece of food or candy hits the seat or tray table they're not to eat it (and this, from someone who lets them eat off of the ground anywhere else). Yes, once you're removed from this phase of parenting you get more grossed out by the changing-diapers-anywhere-you-are than you were when you had kids in diapers.

 

My kids were cloth diapered, and I never had a problem changing them in any airplane lav. It wasn't necessarily easy or desireable or even ideal, but it was definitely do-able with some creativity and flexibility.

 

 

 

Poop is poop, and -to me- it's disgusting no matter how adorable (or young) the vehicle it traveled through. I don't mind if that intolerance is found irritating by others because -to me- it's a sanitary issue. Same reason employees must wash hands before returning to work: sanitation. If you're that good that you won't get poop residue on an airplane seat -in this day and age where the pitch is smaller than ever- then you surely can manage to do the same in a lav of the same size. Small babies can be laid down on the toilet lid, larger babies can stand up on the toilet lid.

 

I agree with almost all of what you said, but I'd like to see a statistic about most planes.:D I've flown with my "lap child" 4 times (on 16 flights) and asked every time, and they never had a changing table. I did, however, have PLENTY of room in the bathroom on my last 3 hr. flight. It was the far back one, and you entered it from the side of the toilet, rather than the front like all others I've been in. There was plenty of room for me to change his poopy diaper by laying him on the toilet lid. He was 34 inches tall and 30 pounds at the time, but it was an easy fit.

 

I have not changed him at my seat (and don't think I ever would). I've never tried changing him on my lap when I'm on solid ground and wouldn't attempt it on a plane especially due the the comfort level of others! If a mother can change a baby on her lap, can't she change him/her on her lap while you sitting on the toilet lid?

 

I have, however, changed him on a chair in the waiting area before boarding a flight. I used a waterproof pad, and found a discreet location where no one had to see too much unless they were trying. My layover was so short there was no time to find a bathroom, wait for the one changing table, and unload/reload my stuff, stroller, etc.

Edited June 27, 2011 by AndyJoy

[laundrycrisis]

I have never been on a plane that had a changing table in the bathroom or anyplace near the bathroom where a diaper could be changed. When we flew with our infants, we were not allowed to use any space anywhere near the bathroom. We were told to do it in our own row of seats.

 

Changing our kid in full view of another passenger was not something we wanted to do, but parents have to do what is necessary to care for their children. The care of the child should be the first priority, and anyone traveling with a young child who needs a diaper change on a plane has my complete sympathy. A passenger who is bothered by having to see a diaper change on a plane can get over it. Really. Anyone who is annoyed at the parents over this should consider that it is no picnic for them either. I feel sorry for anyone who has to change diapers on a plane and I will give them any extra room or moral support that I can.

[vonfirmath]

Yes, this.

 

I've traveled with an infant before and having the lap-sitting rule means I could afford the last trip I took with mine. I was thankful for that rule. I don't see how it is possible to change an diaper in the restroom..

 

It's possible. I've done it. Both in airplane bathrooms with changing tables and those without. Its cramped and not ideal. But it is possible.

[RanchGirl]

I really think bathroom business should be taken care of in the bathroom for sanitary reasons as well as common courtesy. I have never seen a plane bathroom that didn't have a changing table.... they are well hidden but they are there. If not, ask the flight attendant where to change a diaper. I am sure they have a place.

 

Other than that, I have no problem with someone doing their best to entertain a child, be it sitting on the tray, handing the kid back and forth across the aisle or whatever. Putting on PJs -- seriously this bothers people? Maybe they thought it would help the kid feel comfy and sleepy - it's their business.

 

I don't see the big hairy deal. If they aren't entering my allotted 4 cubic inches of space, it's not a problem. Put in your earbuds and close your eyes and you won't know they're there!

[amey311]

We flew once at the same time as another family was flying stand by. There were two parents, a baby and two girls under 10. The airline could find them pairs of seats, but not 4 together and oddly (to me) the parents ended up sitting together 6 rows back from the two girls.

 

Either those girls were frequent, savvy fliers, or just easy kids, because they seemed to have a perfectly fine flight. At one point I had to walk past them to get to the lavatory and, knowing I'd also be passing their folks, I asked them if they needed anything from mom and dad. Yes, please. Could they get the pink blanket and some movie? So, I mentioned as much to mom and dad and said I would be happy to deliver it on my way back down the aisle. I stopped and picked those things up and handed them off.

 

It wasn't how I would've arranged things, but now I'd consider it (maybe not for take off, but once we could move) because it would mean my two could sit together watching a movie or playing a game.

 

Anyway. Just an example of quiet, well behaved children on a plane. Oh, and if this was you - you were flying out of Tampa. Your girls really were lovely on the flight and it was nice playing with you in the small play area near the gate. I had two boys.

[QueenCat]

We flew all the time when the kids were little (dh was an airline employee so we always had seats for the kids). The worst flight was when younger ds had explosive diarrhea and it went through to the seat. Flight attendant removed the seat bottom, put it in a plastic bag, and moved us. I felt so sorry for those near us. Note I wasn't changing him when it happened..... but certainly had to afterwards, in the back, on the flight attendant's seat (because she told me to). Threw all the clothes away as I wasn't carrying them around!

[QueenCat]

We flew once at the same time as another family was flying stand by. There were two parents, a baby and two girls under 10. The airline could find them pairs of seats, but not 4 together and oddly (to me) the parents ended up sitting together 6 rows back from the two girls.

 

Either those girls were frequent, savvy fliers, or just easy kids, because they seemed to have a perfectly fine flight.......

 

It wasn't how I would've arranged things, but now I'd consider it (maybe not for take off, but once we could move) because it would mean my two could sit together watching a movie or playing a game.

 

 

We used to fly stand by all the time. When your children are airline dependents, they become travel savvy at an early age. They know they have to behave or it can cause mom/dad problems at work (if it's bad enough, the flight crew can report it). Personally, my kids preferred to sit with each other than with one of us so once they were about 7 & 9, that's what we did. It's not like they could go anywhere. They knew not to get off the plane until we reached their aisle, or we waited if they were behind us.