Parents and children flying-what not to do

[TravelingChris]

This is not a thread against the poster who neglected to pre select seats together. But it is a rant against anyone who would do this action I am about to describe.

 

I don't like it when parents don't buy seats for their under 2's but that is their right according to both the airline and the fed govt. Fine- but do it with minimal intrusion into others' lives. I was on a flight where sitting across the aisle from me was a mom, her approx. four year old son, and in back of me was the dad. Said child, probably about 20-22 months old, was first sitting on dad's lap. But throughout this flight, mom and dad kept handing the kid back and forth and at various points, mom had kid on tray table so that if we hit turbulence, said child becomes a missile potentially heading at me since I am diagonal to her. They are changing said child into pajamas right next to me, changing diapers, right next to me, said child is toddling back and forth, lots of noises coming out of both parents, both kids, and all the electronic toys they brought. Let's just say I was not a happy camper. They had asked me to switch but I refused. It would have meant my husband would be sitting next to said man and toddler and I would be sitting behind this scene. It wouldn't have been fair to my dh. What really gets me is that there was a two person empty seat in the back, not next to mom and older kid, so the toddler could have been seated.

[laundrycrisis]

I still do not understand why the FAA and airlines allow "lap children" on planes. It is not safe at all, and there is no way to make it safe.

 

Twice in my life I have been in a plane in which every loose object went flying. Unbuckled children would have been projectiles both times.

[Shannon in TN]

I still do not understand why the FAA and airlines allow "lap children" on planes. It is not safe at all, and there is no way to make it safe.

 

Twice in my life I have been in a plane in which every loose object went flying. Unbuckled children would have been projectiles both times.

 

That reminds me of when I went flying once with my dd about 6 or maybe 9 months old - small enough to still sit in a maya wrap. The flight attendants told me that I had to take her OUT of the wrap during take-off and landing. It just didn't make any sense to me. Seems completely unsafe.

[laundrycrisis]

That reminds me of when I went flying once with my dd about 6 or maybe 9 months old - small enough to still sit in a maya wrap. The flight attendants told me that I had to take her OUT of the wrap during take-off and landing. It just didn't make any sense to me. Seems completely unsafe.

 

They won't let you use any sort of tether device for takeoff or landing because none of them are FAA approved during takeoff and landing. So they decide it's safer to use nothing. :001_huh: And enforce this "standard" on everyone.

[ByGrace3]

Ok, you are probably not going to like this, but honestly, that doesn't sound outlandish. Traveling with toddlers is not easy, where would you have liked her to change him? Have you seen airline bathrooms? Honestly, had I been the mom with 2 small kids and you had refused to switch places, I would have been mad, and I kinda think that the whole situation was partly your fault. They knew it is hard to travel with toddlers and wanted both parents to be close to help. That is one of my biggest annoyances. When the airline screws up and splits families, I have always had gracious people switch with us (you and your dh probably could have moved).

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but as someone in that situation often I can sympathize. Flying with littles is stressful enough...

[SailorMom]

I get the lap baby issues - but most of what you're describing would have happened whether the baby had a seat or not. I bought seats for my young ones - but they still wanted to be held, needed changed (and there is no where to change the baby in a lot of airplanes), made noise, and wanted to get up and walk.

Planes are public transport. I bring ear buds. Keep in mind - on a 6 hour flight to Hawaii, I had a two year old lap child behind me kicking my seat the hwole time.... I just laughed and was glad I wasn't the poor, desperate, embarrassed pareant :)

[NanceXToo]

I would have switched places with the dad no problem (wouldn't even think of refusing), and the situation you described doesn't sound all that horrid to me; it sounds like they did the best they could with a child of that age, the amount of space they had, etc. And yep- a kid that young, even if he had his own seat, would have still wanted to be climbing into the parents' laps, having a hard time staying still etc. It's to be expected.

[MelanieM]

I get the lap baby issues - but most of what you're describing would have happened whether the baby had a seat or not. I bought seats for my young ones - but they still wanted to be held, needed changed (and there is no where to change the baby in a lot of airplanes), made noise, and wanted to get up and walk.

 

Yep. There's no way I could force my toddler to sit in a seat for hours on end. Well, I suppose I could... but then I'd be the subject of the posts that say "I was on a plane and this toddler screamed bloody murder for 4 hours!!"

 

Also, if there were two empty seats in the back, why didn't you and your husband take those?

[2squared]

I get so frustrated because you often can't preselect seats together. When you book your flight, you have to hope that there are enough open seats together for your group. Well, often there aren't three empty seats in a row. I've been in situations flying with a lap baby and other littles by myself, and our seats aren't placed together. I call 24 hours in advance hoping the airline will release handicapped seats to us. If that doesn't happen, then I'm left at the mercy of other airline passengers.

 

Flying with littles just isn't easy.

[bettyandbob]

I'm with you Chris. I've always bought my babies a ticket. And the poster who said all those things (changing baby, moving baby) would have been going on if the baby had a ticket. Yes, but there would have been a little bit of space for those things to go on.

 

I was on a flight where I'd bought a ticket for my kid and another family had not. The flight attendants moved my dh futher away so that family could have three seats together--one of which they had not paid for. Really ticked me off. I paid for 3 seats why didn't I get 3 seats together, why give that to some who did not pay.

[kathkath]

Ok, you are probably not going to like this, but honestly, that doesn't sound outlandish. Traveling with toddlers is not easy, where would you have liked her to change him? Have you seen airline bathrooms? Honestly, had I been the mom with 2 small kids and you had refused to switch places, I would have been mad, and I kinda think that the whole situation was partly your fault. They knew it is hard to travel with toddlers and wanted both parents to be close to help. That is one of my biggest annoyances. When the airline screws up and splits families, I have always had gracious people switch with us (you and your dh probably could have moved).

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but as someone in that situation often I can sympathize. Flying with littles is stressful enough...

 

 

Yes, this.

 

I've traveled with an infant before and having the lap-sitting rule means I could afford the last trip I took with mine. I was thankful for that rule. I don't see how it is possible to change an diaper in the restroom. I agree it is up to the parent to make sure the child is as quiet as possible and not bothering others--to the extent that (s)he is able--meaning bringing lots of food/drink that you might not normally give your child and doing lightning speed diaper changes. You gotta do what you gotta do. I have had strangers want to hold my children and have let them in these situations. People have always been nice.

[Halftime Hope]

I'm with Chris on this one. All the passengers were in a difficult position. I think it would have made a lot more sense for the parents to ask a flier next to one of them to switch seats, not Chris across the aisle. Chris preferring her husband as a seating companion is perfectly normal.

 

As a parent, I was very proactive to keep the noise and activity of my kids to a minimum, even if it meant choosing a flight at times that I knew my kids were likely to nap, premedicating with pain killing ear drops when a child was stuffy, and always bringing new toys and goodies to keep toddlers entertained.

 

The idea is to be courteous and work the situation so everyone has an enjoyable flight, kidlets and passengers, not to just give consideration to what will keep the child happiest.

[bbmom]

I find flight attendants to be very accommodating (especially in trying to keep adults traveling without children happy when seated next to families with young children. If I was in your situation, I would have asked the flight attendant if my husband and I could be moved to the two empty seats away from this family and then the husband and toddler could have had the two seats next to the mom and older child-everyone would have been much happier.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I find flight attendants to be very accommodating (especially in trying to keep adults traveling without children happy when seated next to families with young children. If I was in your situation, I would have asked the flight attendant if my husband and I could be moved to the two empty seats away from this family and then the husband and toddler could have had the two seats next to the mom and older child-everyone would have been much happier.

 

If this were an option, I would have tried to do this. I've been on some flights with some other person's annoying children. Then again, I've also been the frustrated and humiliated parent of annoying children on a flight. I've also sat next to some really annoying adults on flights. Unless you pay for first class, you kind of have to take what you get when you fly.

[stripe]

Just so you know, on international flights, lap children are not free, and I did not want to pay an additional $700 for a child who was going to spend most of the flight on my lap because of sleeping or nursing. European airlines do not allow children in car seats during take off and landing, either.

 

On domestic flights, children are the same fare as adults. They are no longer half priced, as they once were.

 

Changing diapers on the seats and general misbehavior has nothing to do with how much you paid for the ticket.

 

My husband had a man spill beer all over him. I've had weird men stare at me while I discretely breastfeed. It's not fun flying, and that's just a fact. I don't think children are the reason air travel stinks.

[T'smom]

I fly with lap children fairly regularly. IME, it's much worse just after they turn two and have to be in their own seat. When they're in my lap- it's MUCH easier to contain them. I've never had a bad experience.

 

ETA: change the weird spacing that happened because the current lap child is kicking the keyboard while she nurses.

[merry gardens]

Yep. There's no way I could force my toddler to sit in a seat for hours on end. Well, I suppose I could... but then I'd be the subject of the posts that say "I was on a plane and this toddler screamed bloody murder for 4 hours!!"

 

Also, if there were two empty seats in the back, why didn't you and your husband take those?

I was wondering the same thing. The stewardess may have been able to help the op and her husband switch seats and travel together.

 

I travelled to a funeral with my children and husband. We couldn't have purchased seats together in advance because it was a funeral. The stewardess tried to get us seats together. One lady refused to move, so she sat right between us and made mean remarks about us travelling with children.

[myfunnybunch]

I can see why you were annoyed. It sounds annoying.

 

Was there a reason that you and your dh couldn't switch to the empty seats? That would have removed you from the situation altogether.

 

Cat

[Lilymax]

Planes are usually so jam-packed these days, it's no longer fun to fly.

 

But seriously...at the end of the day, it's just a few hours out of your life that you won't have to repeat in exactly the same way again. When I'm in the middle of a miserable flight, that's what I keep telling myself...it has an end. Some people are horribly rude, others are doing the best they can.

 

I think a LOT of grace is needed to make flying a positive experience these days.

[Wabi Sabi]

Really? I'm not sure what else you expected of the parents: they were tending to their child and trying to entertain him, correct? Changing him into pajamas in the seat was offensive somehow? Does it all just boil down to annoyance that he didn't have his own seat? Even if he had his own seat there might have been a little more room, but would that really made much of a difference?

 

It makes me wonder if some posters have ever been the parent of a toddler.

[MelanieM]

Sorry--why did the mother and baby not sit in the back two seats?? Why inconvenience paying customers? That way she could have more easily changed diapers and play with the child without distracting others. If they needed to switch, the father could have stood up, walked to the back, and relieve the mom. Unbelievable.

Well, I'm assuming the parents felt it would be easier to keep the family closer together rather than passing children across the plane. I know I would find it much harder dealing with a toddler with my husand too far away to easily step in as needed. And honestly, while it might have been better for the OP not to be near the toddler, it could have made it tougher for the people in the new location. The bottom line is it isn't always peachy and easy flying with babies and toddlers... sometimes they're just difficult to deal with! And I can guarantee you it's worse for the parent than for the person sitting across the aisle that has to passively watch it all unfold.

 

In any case, my question was simply that if the OP also had an option, and she was the one annoyed by her seating arrangement, then why didn't she ask to move? I'm not saying she had to do that -- obviously! -- but she's complaining that the other people didn't take advantage of that option, so I can only assume she could have saved herself some grief if her and her husband had moved.

[bbmom]

Sorry--why did the mother and baby not sit in the back two seats?? Why inconvenience paying customers? That way she could have more easily changed diapers and play with the child without distracting others. If they needed to switch, the father could have stood up, walked to the back, and relieved the mom. Unbelievable.

 

It sounds like the OP was inconvenienced by the seating arrangements as they were, and moving the mom and baby likely would have only served to further inconvenience her (and other passengers) because then they would likely have been walking the child back and forth between several rows of seats instead of just the one as the father and other sibling would have still been seated next to the OP.

[happypamama]

Even if he had his own seat there might have been a little more room, but would that really made much of a difference?

 

 

 

Maybe -- but if the toddler had had his own seat, the parents might likely have brought the carseat on for him, which would have made less room.

 

I've flown with lap babies (short flights) and with carseats, and everyone's always been very kind. One time, I was flying cross-country by myself with two children (4 years and 15 months), and on the last leg of the return flight, we were all utterly exhausted, overstimulated from our trip, tired of being stuck in a seat, etc. The 4yo was sitting next to the window, and I had the toddler on my lap, in the middle seat, with a gentleman on my other side. I was trying so hard to keep the 4yo calm and happy, while trying to nurse the toddler so that I wasn't flashing anyone, all while trying desperately to stay awake myself (I had also driven a ridiculous number of hours the day before and had had very little sleep). This guy was so nice and gracious about all of it; I was so very grateful for his patience. Sometimes parents are doing all they can, and there's just not more they can do.

[justasque]

Yep, and it extends both ways. If I was flying with small children I would try my hardest to not cause a ruckus, and it appears this mom had no clue.

 

Dot, have you ever actually flown with small children? It is very, very challenging. You are extremely limited on space, the amount of supplies you can bring with you, and the options you have for keeping the child from disturbing others. Gone are the days of walking up and down the aisle to stretch your legs, or visiting the cockpit to see how the pilots fly the plane. Very young children have no idea what is happening, and it is extremely hard for them to simply sit still for an hours-long flight. They may not have familiar toys or foods available. They may be scared, or overwhelmed.

 

I've never seen a flying mom who wasn't working as hard as she possibly could to make everything go smoothly for her family *and* everyone else around her, every single minute of the flight. As a mom who's been there, when I fly I try to extend a helping hand wherever I can, and I always try to compliment moms of young'uns on the great job they're doing.

 

Sometimes parents are doing all they can, and there's just not more they can do.

:iagree:

 

OP, if it happens again, you might want to tell the flight attendant that you'd be willing to move *if* you and your hubby can be seated together (or whatever your requirements are). It will go a long way towards making the flight more pleasant for everyone involved, you, the family, and the other passengers.

[asta]

Why is a homeschooling board assuming that posters have never travelled with (or had!) small children?

 

I mean, durr...

 

 

a

[Pretty in Pink]

Flying with little ones is so difficult and I think that most parents do the best that they can to minimize the discomfort of the passengers around them. Maybe this was the first time this couple flew with children and they just weren't as well prepared as they could have been. Really, it sounds like they did the best that the could.

 

A lap-sitting child is a projectile, regardless of where they are seated. I think parents should be required to purchase the additional seat for their 2-and-unders, and the children should be restrained anytime the fasten seatbelt light is on.

[AnitaMcC]

IMO, it is the greed and airlines that is at "fault"... why not design airplanes to have a baby changing area (sheesh that won't take up that much space!!!) and also design a bit more space in the seating areas or at least a row or two that would give a bit more room for parents with very young children. So what if that means 6 less people can fly on that plane?????? In the end, it really isn't going to impact the cost of building and flying the plane and many planes end up flying with a few empty seats anyway.

 

I haven't flown in many years, but have flown:

 

with 6 month old twins (w/ Dh and I).... Dh and I each had a baby lapsit. Dh and I did orginally get seats together , but we were separted because of regulations... couldn't have three adults with two infants in same row. I sat in one row and Dh behind me. The twins had a blast "playing" over the seat. But mostly they slept. On the way back we were separated by nearly the length of plane. No biggie, but at least I had thought this time to carryon two diaper bags since I then knew we could not sit in same row-LOL.

 

with 18 month old twins (w/ Dh and I)... the twins lapsit. Going to destination, we were separated by a few rows but some nice people offered (we did not ask) to switch so we could be together (I was in row in front of Dh). On way back, the plane had a lot of open seats and we were only ones with young children. We were moved to the front cabin row so we had more leg room and floor space for twins to play.

 

with 2 1/2 yr old twins (by myself)... I bought two seats for them. It was an "issue" for safety. I had to have one child sit in aisle of row, and me across isle with the other twin next to me. Apparently couldn't put two car seats with me in between them. Also the adult sitting next to my one twin (the aisle twin) was asked that in an emergency and the O2 mask came down if that adult would assist my child. Same for return flight.

 

with a 18 month old, a 3 1/2 yr old, 7 1/2 yr old twins, 12 yr old, 14yr old (w/ DH and I). We were seated all over the place-LOL. But 14 yr old was paired up with a 7 yr old, and 12 yr old was paired up with other 7 yr old, Dh was paired up with 3 yr old, and I was paired up with 18 month old. The stewardess was extremely helpful and made sure that none of the kids were completely by self. Same for return flight.

Edited June 26, 2011 by AnitaMcC

[Joanne]

This is not a thread against the poster who neglected to pre select seats together. But it is a rant against anyone who would do this action I am about to describe.

 

I don't like it when parents don't buy seats for their under 2's but that is their right according to both the airline and the fed govt. Fine- but do it with minimal intrusion into others' lives. I was on a flight where sitting across the aisle from me was a mom, her approx. four year old son, and in back of me was the dad. Said child, probably about 20-22 months old, was first sitting on dad's lap. But throughout this flight, mom and dad kept handing the kid back and forth and at various points, mom had kid on tray table so that if we hit turbulence, said child becomes a missile potentially heading at me since I am diagonal to her. They are changing said child into pajamas right next to me, changing diapers, right next to me, said child is toddling back and forth, lots of noises coming out of both parents, both kids, and all the electronic toys they brought. Let's just say I was not a happy camper. They had asked me to switch but I refused. It would have meant my husband would be sitting next to said man and toddler and I would be sitting behind this scene. It wouldn't have been fair to my dh. What really gets me is that there was a two person empty seat in the back, not next to mom and older kid, so the toddler could have been seated.

 

Chris,

 

One of my worst threads here was several years ago. It was after 9/11, but before recent TSA changes. My son was flying to spend the week with my sister near Orlando. He had been randomly flagged for a "thorough search" which included his crotch, etc. The TSA agents barely allowed me to coach him through it (he was 10? 11?). It took so much time that I wasn't able to help him process it before he boarded. I had to call my sister and give her the information so she could do so. I will never forget the look on his face when he asked "Mommy, why are they touching me there?" I posted for maternal empathy. The thread took a nasty turn and got all up in my face about national security. :lol:

 

So, that said, I feel you. When I travelled with youngers, I was particulary careful about the added transitions, movement, and activity that comes with littles. I am by nature sensitive to and irritated by it. As such, my irritation level would rise with the back and forths, the changes, the sitting on the tray table.

 

Unless a child had a *soiled* diaper, I would not change them on a plane. I also would not change their clothes. That seems like needless movement that necessitates being in other people's space. I would also have chosen toys that entertain but didn't add to the noise and movement.

 

I'm sorry your flight sucked.

[justasque]

Unless a child had a *soiled* diaper, I would not change them on a plane.

 

When I fly, I am often on a plane for 6-8 hours. I would not want a child to be sitting in a wet diaper for that long. It would not be good for their skin, it would make them uncomfortable (and thus possibly result in behavior issues), and the diaper would very likely leak, creating a whole new set of issues. Promptly changing wet (and soiled) diapers is, IMHO, part of a flying mom's responsibility in keeping her kids' needs met (in part so that they do not disturb other passengers). There are some ways better than others to do this, but it's a challenge any way you attempt to do it.

 

I think perhaps some of the differing opinions on this thread have to do with our flight length experience. The challenges of a 1-1.5 hour flight are quite different than those of a cross-country or overseas flight which may take the better part of a day.

[gardening momma]

Several years ago I flew with my almost 2 year old (dd7), while 5 months pregnant with dd5. Dd was a lap child on that flight, and I tried soooo hard to keep her quiet, happy, entertained, and her hands off the guy next to us. It was such hard work. Then the flight attendant rewarded him with free liquor and a flight/wings pin. :glare: Nothing for me or my child (a little trinket or something would have kept her entertained for a few minutes, at least).

 

I would not have brought noisy toys, but I do understand how much work it is to keep a 2 yr old quiet on a flight. I think other passengers don't see all that hard work, they only see the noise and the activity that you can't suppress.

 

If I were the adult(s) without kids on OP's flight, I would definitely have taken those 2 seats together at the back of the plane.

[Jennifer3141]

My DH and I saved up an extra 4 months to buy first class tickets the last time we flew because of this issue. And then for one trip to Cape Cod, we just decided to drive it and avoid air travel altogether. Flying sucks nowadays for EVERYONE. (Although first class was nice-ish. lol)

 

Either you fly with your kids and someone thinks they are ill-behaved.

 

Or you fly and someone else's kids are awful.

 

Or you fly and the ADULTS are awful.

 

We'd like to visit Scotland someday and I swear, I'd rather swim or take the slow boat. :D

I don't care if it takes a YEAR more to save up for first class, I'm not traveling across the ocean without it. Thankfully, I have no one's funeral to attend who isn't within driving distance. My heart goes out to those of you who have to fly across the world on a moment's notice with children and attend something incredibly stressful too. :(

[bettyandbob]

I think other passengers don't see all that hard work, they only see the noise and the activity that you can't suppress.

 

 

Why would it matter to another paying customer how hard you are working to keep your child quiet and contained within the space you paid for. Other customers are expected to keep their noise level down and movement within a tiny space they paid for. If you insist on flying with a lap child, then you should not expect help or empathy from others. If you do get help from others great, but don't be disappointed in other passengers for not giving you a break. I understand it's a choice some families make for financial reasons, but again don't expect to get any concessions over the space you paid for.

Edited June 26, 2011 by betty

[Farrar]

I get the lap baby issues - but most of what you're describing would have happened whether the baby had a seat or not.

:iagree:

 

It sucks to sit next to young kids. Period. I could tell stories (of my own kids, of others, of long flights and short ones, of great airline attendants and rude ones...) but it just boils down to the fact that it often comes out badly for parents, kids, and everyone sitting around them.

[Danestress]

Either the kids are awful and ruin the experience or the ADULTS are awful and ruin the experience. Someone will be checking the cell phone, making boorish jokes, kicking the seat, slobbering and slurping their super-sized whatever, and just generally being .... annoying.

 

I sound like an old lady. I wish they had first class movie tickets, lol.

[july19]

As the person who started the "other" thread, given some of the responses in this thread I'm sure most of you can see why I slept an hour last night.

 

:crying:

 

After feeling so great about the responses in my thread, I come here and read through these and I'm back to sobbing.

 

I'm so thankful to those who truly understand that

 

A) sometimes people buying tickets are naive and had no idea airlines would separate young children (like me...like I said, I really had no idea)

 

and

 

B) sometimes you DO pre-arrange and pay the extra and you still get separated.

 

I'm sorry...but I am an extremely emotional mom right now and while the intent was to not offend me specifically, it still kinda did. I'm really sorry.

[gardening momma]

Why would it matter to another paying customer how hard you are working to keep your child quiet and contained within the space you paid for. Other customers are expected to keep their noise level down and movement within a tiny space they paid for. If you insist on flying with a lap child, then you should expect help or empathy from others. If you do get help from others great, but don't be disappointed in other passengers for not giving you a break. I understand it's a choice some families make for financial reasons, but again don't expect to get any concessions over the space you paid for.

Having an extra seat wouldn't make a difference. The child would still be an almost-2 year old. She wouldn't sit still and quiet in her seat like an adult would.

 

One of my points was that the passenger next to us was rewarded for putting up with us. It was an insult. My other point was that when people complain about the family with the wiggly, noisy child, that's all they see--something to complain about. They don't see the mom's effort to not bother other people.

[Runningmom80]

I just flew in April with twins and a 4 year old. (dh as well)

 

Thank goodness everyone we encountered was very helpful and understanding. Thanks to the kindness of strangers holding our babies and entertaining our four year old we were able to install my older DS's carseat, put away carryons, and generally get our wits about us. We did not buy seats for the babies, I knew they would have needed to be held the whole time anyways. We preselected seats together, but as a pp mentioned, you cannot have two infants in the same row, there aren't enough oxygen masks.

 

 

If we had to buy the twins seats we probably would not have been able to afford it, and would have missed out on the best vacation ever. I'm glad that we were not met with any of the resistance or disdain that the OP is voicing. People were genuinely nice, and even gave us credit for traveling with 3 little ones. The pilot even let DS sit in his seat while everyone was boarding. The coolness was lost on DS, who then expected VIP treatment in e cockpit on the way home. Lol!

[gardening momma]

As the person who started the "other" thread, given some of the responses in this thread I'm sure most of you can see why I slept an hour last night.

 

:crying:

 

After feeling so great about the responses in my thread, I come here and read through these and I'm back to sobbing.

 

I'm so thankful to those who truly understand that

 

A) sometimes people buying tickets are naive and had no idea airlines would separate young children (like me...like I said, I really had no idea)

 

and

 

B) sometimes you DO pre-arrange and pay the extra and you still get separated.

 

I'm sorry...but I am an extremely emotional mom right now and while the intent was to not offend me specifically, it still kinda did. I'm really sorry.

I did not read that other thread, but I totally understand. :grouphug:

 

My flight problems that I described did not end with that flight. It got worse in the airport. There is a certain airline I will never fly with again. I've btdt--(sobbing at the airport), for sure.

[melissel]

As the person who started the "other" thread, given some of the responses in this thread I'm sure most of you can see why I slept an hour last night.

 

:crying:

 

After feeling so great about the responses in my thread, I come here and read through these and I'm back to sobbing.

 

I'm so thankful to those who truly understand that

 

A) sometimes people buying tickets are naive and had no idea airlines would separate young children (like me...like I said, I really had no idea)

 

and

 

B) sometimes you DO pre-arrange and pay the extra and you still get separated.

 

I'm sorry...but I am an extremely emotional mom right now and while the intent was to not offend me specifically, it still kinda did. I'm really sorry.

 

:grouphug: Don't be upset. IMO, your situation and the one Chris described are totally different. Getting separated from your child on a plane and asking someone to move is not even close to the same as choosing not to purchase a seat in the first place, which then inconveniences people around you. Apples and oranges, and those horrible people on the Disboards have some bad karma coming their way :glare:

[justasque]

Why would it matter to another paying customer how hard you are working to keep your child quiet and contained within the space you paid for. Other customers are expected to keep their noise level down and movement within a tiny space they paid for. If you insist on flying with a lap child, then you should not expect help or empathy from others. If you do get help from others great, but don't be disappointed in other passengers for not giving you a break. I understand it's a choice some families make for financial reasons, but again don't expect to get any concessions over the space you paid for.

 

But I think that goes both ways. When flying as a parent, I try to work as hard as I can to limit my family's potential negative impact on others, while still caring for my children's needs (in part because if their needs (food, drink, stretch the legs, help with fear, etc.) aren't met, they are more likely to impact others). When flying without kids, I try to be as gracious and helpful as I can to other passengers, including families, the elderly, those with special needs, etc. Little things, like letting others exit the plane first if I am not making a connection, can make someone else's day go so much better without much extra effort on my part. I don't expect help from others in either case, but it is often offered (in the same way I offer help to others), and I am grateful for it. (For example, I love when taller people help me put my luggage in the overhead compartment.)

 

Flying is not fun, lots of people are stressed over it, and we're crammed in a small space with strangers. The best way to deal with it is to extend grace and help as much as you can; there is always someone worse off than you, or struggling more than you, and remembering to put yourself in their shoes is a good way to make your own issues pale in comparison.

[Joanne]

As the person who started the "other" thread, given some of the responses in this thread I'm sure most of you can see why I slept an hour last night.

 

:crying:

 

After feeling so great about the responses in my thread, I come here and read through these and I'm back to sobbing.

 

I'm so thankful to those who truly understand that

 

A) sometimes people buying tickets are naive and had no idea airlines would separate young children (like me...like I said, I really had no idea)

 

and

 

B) sometimes you DO pre-arrange and pay the extra and you still get separated.

 

I'm sorry...but I am an extremely emotional mom right now and while the intent was to not offend me specifically, it still kinda did. I'm really sorry.

 

July19, your level of anxiety around this isn't healthy or helping you. You are a fully capable mom. You'll be fine. People are allowed to be annoyed at kids (or adults) on planes. It's a recipe for frustration for everyone concerned.

 

I'm not sure why you are travelling, or why you are so emotional right now. There is no need to let this fear and these threads ruin the time between now and your trip or your trip. No, not everyone is sophisticated, seasoned travellers. Your money is as good as anyone else's and you deserve to be on that plan just as much as whoever sits next to you.

 

{{hugs}}

[gardening momma]

Don't be upset. IMO, your situation and the one Chris described are totally different.

Just went and skimmed through that thread, and I agree. Different situations.

[melissel]

Having an extra seat wouldn't make a difference. The child would still be an almost-2 year old. She wouldn't sit still and quiet in her seat like an adult would.

 

One of my points was that the passenger next to us was rewarded for putting up with us. It was an insult. My other point was that when people complain about the family with the wiggly, noisy child, that's all they see--something to complain about. They don't see the mom's effort to not bother other people.

 

But, IMO, that's part of the job description when we become a mom. If I choose to fly--a situation fraught with discomfort and potential misery in the best of scenarios--with my kids, I know that I'm choosing to take on a difficult task. My seatmates did not choose to take on that task, so I do actually think they deserve some thanks for being patient.

 

And yes, two-year-olds are two-year-olds, but I think the extra seat's worth of elbow space, wiggle room, buffer zone, etc. means a lot. Which is not to say I also don't wonder why the two adults couldn't move to the two free seats myself, but I'm assuming there was some extenuating circumstance there, maybe?

[gardening momma]

Why would it matter to another paying customer how hard you are working to keep your child quiet and contained within the space you paid for. Other customers are expected to keep their noise level down and movement within a tiny space they paid for. If you insist on flying with a lap child, then you should not expect help or empathy from others.

Getting back to this...attitude. I did not have problems with the other passengers on my flight. Even the guy next to me was a good sport. I did not ask anyone for help or empathy. I certainly hope they didn't have their noses up in the air as you imply passengers would. It was the flight attendant's response I had a problem with, as well as the attitude you and the OP express.

[bettyandbob]

But I think that goes both ways.

 

Flying is not fun, lots of people are stressed over it, and we're crammed in a small space with strangers. The best way to deal with it is to extend grace and help as much as you can; there is always someone worse off than you, or struggling more than you, and remembering to put yourself in their shoes is a good way to make your own issues pale in comparison.

 

 

I agree with you. The other poster seemed to imply there that since she was working hard to contain a toddler she should get consideration. My point was that no consideration was owed to her. If someone was gracious enough to give her some that's great. However, the way travel is now with everyone stressed out and not enough room for anyone over 5'2" or 120 lbs then you have to understand that when schedule travel everyone on the flight is already at their breaking point (or likely to be so) and to plan accordingly. Expect no concessions. Understand you made the choice to travel and you made the choice to not pay for a seat for your child (if that is one of your choices). If you can give concessions wonderful, but do not expect any.

[gardening momma]

I agree with you. The other poster seemed to imply there that since she was working hard to contain a toddler she should get consideration. My point was that no consideration was owed to her.

This is so funny. If no consideration is due to a parent and child, then no consideration is due to any other passenger. Why doesn't the parent and child get equal rights? They are just as entitled to fly as anyone else.

[bettyandbob]

Getting back to this...attitude. I did not have problems with the other passengers on my flight. Even the guy next to me was a good sport. I did not ask anyone for help or empathy. I certainly hope they didn't have their noses up in the air as you imply passengers would. It was the flight attendant's response I had a problem with, as well as the attitude you and the OP express.

 

 

Please explain what my attitude is. If I paid for a seat, I expect to be able to sit down and read or sleep on the flight, maybe get up once or twice to go to the bathroom, depending on the length of the flight. I don't think I should be expected to make adjustments for someone who did not buy a ticket. I'm actually very likely to be the friendly passenger who helps out, but really you suggest I have an attitude because I don't think it should be an expectation. That's just ridiculous.

 

I've traveled with toddlers. It requires planning ahead and knowing that the parent will be exhausted upon arrival at the destination. It is no one else's responsibility.

[bettyandbob]

This is so funny. If no consideration is due to a parent and child, then no consideration is due to any other passenger. Why doesn't the parent and child get equal rights? They are just as entitled to fly as anyone else.

 

Because you did not buy your child a ticket. You deserve only the consideration of the space you paid for like I said already. If your child is taking up more space, then yes the other passenger, who you have described as nice, does deserve some credit. You were doing no more than expected.

[aggieamy]

Kinda shocked by some of the responses here. When I fly I always kind of having a feeling of "we're all in this together". Like others have said, flying these days sucks. It's intrusive, expensive, and generally not on schedule. I've flown with parents with annoying little kids, people who are so overweight that my petite self is cramped up against a window so I wouldn't be physically touching them for four hours, very slow moving elderly people, and the worst - people who want to talk to you the whole flight while you're in the middle of a good book.

 

I try to be gracious and understanding to all those people. They're just as unhappy about the situation as I am. Flying sucks all around and really we should just be as nice and kind as possible and realize that people aren't doing things just to bother us.

[stripe]

This is so funny. If no consideration is due to a parent and child, then no consideration is due to any other passenger. Why doesn't the parent and child get equal rights? They are just as entitled to fly as anyone else.

 

This is why I find Americans' claim to family values ring hollow. People in other countries hold your baby for you and give screaming kids a candy.