Do you get offended when someone asks the grade-level of your child?

[m0mmaBuck]

We had this situation at a Cub Scout meeting the other night. Let it be said that our Pack includes boys from 3 different school districts (various schools), a number of private schools, and some homeschoolers. A new family came to visit the Pack and, in order to know what Den the boy would be assigned to, the Cubmaster asked the parents the grade-level of the child. This parent went on a diatribe about how homeschoolers don't have to assign a grade level to their children and that the value of the child's education couldn't be determined by a pre-assigned grade level and so on.... It was really very odd (and somewhat embarrassing for me as a homeschooler AND the Pack Committee Chair).

 

I understand the whole "teach the children at their level" concept but if asked for a grade-level to put your child in an age-appropriate group, would your react this way?

[Mejane]

I think this falls under the category of offensensitivity as discussed in another thread.

 

ETA: hs'ers like the one you describe are part of the reason people think we're all nuts.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Mejane

[skueppers]

Of course I wouldn't be offended. How I answer depends on the context, though.

 

In this situation, I would have given my child's age-based grade level. If someone were asking because they wanted to give me books or curriculum materials, I would have said, "she's in X grade, but works at Y grade level in [subject]."

[nmoira]

No.

[Sophia]

No, I don't get offended if someone asks a grade level.

 

 

I would assume the mom was a newer homeschooler who felt she had to go on the offensive and defend every decision she made~including not assigning a grade level.

My guess is she'll get over it eventually.

[Night Elf]

No. It's the common way to separate groups of children. When my youngest dd was younger, she consistently worked in reading and math at higher levels, but that didn't mean an 8 year old needed to be in a class or group of children that were 11 years old.

[AK_Mom4]

Of course I wouldn't be offended. How I answer depends on the context, though.

 

In this situation, I would have given my child's age-based grade level. If someone were asking because they wanted to give me books or curriculum materials, I would have said, "she's in X grade, but works at Y grade level in [subject]."

:iagree:

 

DD10 answers the question based on how old she is. And, no, I don't get offended by polite and reasonable questions. That person needs :chillpill:

[ereks mom]

ETA: hs'ers like the one you describe are part of the reason people think we're all nuts.

 

Yep. :iagree: Sheesh!

[Beetkvass]

I wouldn't be at all offended in that context.

[scmama]

I still use grade levels for my kids. Maybe it's because we have only been homeschooling for the last year and a half. But everywhere you go, people still ask for their grade level usually. It's not offensive to me, or a sensitive question for me or my kids!

[m0mmaBuck]

I wonder if she is a new homeschooler. That might explain the oversensitivity to the question. Or maybe he son has some issues and his "grade level" is a touchy subject. We did tell her that we had kids from all educational backgrounds in the Pack and that the dens were divided by grade level, but maybe she was overwhelmed by the new situation and didn't really "hear" what we said. I don't know. I've just never had anyone get so upset by that question!

[ereks mom]

No. It's the common way to separate groups of children. When my youngest dd was younger, she consistently worked in reading and math at higher levels, but that didn't mean an 8 year old needed to be in a class or group of children that were 11 years old.

 

:iagree: However, one of my good friends actually thinks that they do. :glare: Her dd works 2 grade levels ahead of where she would be if she were in ps, and the mom has always put her up two levels in everything else as well. For example, at church, the mom insisted that her dd be in the youth group (6th grade through high school) "because she's in 6th grade" when she was 9 years old! I never could get the mom to understand that in situations like that, the girl needed to be with kids her age instead of with kids who were on her grade level. I can't imagine that the teens in their church were too thrilled to have a 9 year old tagging along on all their events.

[lionfamily1999]

I think this is why Cub Scout Dens go by age and grade. Some kids are not in the "age appropriate" grade. Some parents prefer to have their children's age be the deciding factor.

 

I don't get offended, assuming the person is asking in an interested way versus a rude/sarcastic/snide way.

 

When I did Scouts, we always said age OR grade. Some kids, even in ps, are way behind their age groups grade and if that's the case, then it would put a parent on the defensive.

[Ellie]

In this situation, I would have given my child's age-based grade level. If someone were asking because they wanted to give me books or curriculum materials, I would have said, "she's in X grade, but works at Y grade level in [subject]."

:iagree:

 

In general, I refer to dc by ages not grade levels, but for specific situations such as Cub scouts or Sunday school, knowing the "grade level" of the child would be appropriate.

[Plucky]

I think this falls under the category of offensensitivity as discussed in another thread.

 

ETA: hs'ers like the one you describe are part of the reason people think we're all nuts.

 

Exactly.

[Lady Florida.]

Not at all. People are used to thinking of school age kids in terms of grade level, and many activities are based on grade level. I do (kindly) tell people that we don't necessarily follow grade levels, but then proceed to let them know what grade ds would be in if he was enrolled in school.

[m0mmaBuck]

If we were a Pack of homeschoolers, age/birthdate would be the obvious way to go. Since we are a mixed Pack, grade was the most obvious given the fact that many of our kids are actually young for their grade-level and want to stay in a Den with their classmates.

 

I just had never seen someone get riled up over the grade-level question! If they decide to join the Pack, I am going to sit down and talk with the mom to try to get a feel for what is really going on because I don't think one little question about grade-level warranted all of that!

[ocelotmom]

I can understand a homeschooler being confused as to where to place their child if their homeschooling was thoroughly removed from standard grade levels, especially if their child's birthday fell near the grade cutoff date. But to be offended at what is basically convenient shorthand for "With children of what age and ability level is it appropriate to place your child?" from an organization that overwhelmingly works within the public school paradigm is ridiculous overreaction.

[Just Robyn]

I still use grade levels for my kids. Maybe it's because we have only been homeschooling for the last year and a half. But everywhere you go, people still ask for their grade level usually. It's not offensive to me, or a sensitive question for me or my kids!

 

:iagree:but we're finishing up our fourth year. I always just go by what grade they would be in in PS. Of course that has nothing to do with what curricula I buy them. What grade they're "in" and what level of math/english/science... they need are two totally different things. (Ok, they might be the same, but it's just not the same question, and one does not rely upon the other.)

 

No, I would not be offended or even blink.

[mom31257]

I'm never offended in any situation, much less that one. Everyone who's part of CS knows that the groups are assigned by the grade level each child would be in at public school.

 

We have not allowed our children to be called any grade other than the one appropriate for their age. We do allow them to work at whatever level is needed in any given subject.

 

We don't want our kids to graduate early, so there's no need to push a grade or more ahead.

[Dmmetler]

I just say "She's 6". In a non-academic group type activity, she's usually just as well off with kids her own age anyway. She's officially a grade ahead of her age, because her prior school moved her forward, so I've kept that intact-but honestly, I don't really care whether she's with 6 yr olds who just finished Kindergarten or 6 yr olds who just finished 1st when it comes to choosing what VBS class to put her in this summer. DD will proudly tell you that she's starting 2nd grade, though.

Edited May 28, 2011 by dmmetler

[Plaid Dad]

I just say "She's 6". In a non-academic group type activity, she's usually just as well off with kids her own age anyway.

 

This is how we handle it. If pressed, I give the grade that dd's age-peers would be in, which is also the grade we have chosen to list on our paperwork for the local school district (our state requires district approval for homeschoolers). That grade level does not correspond with the level of any curriculum she's using, but that's really not what's being asked in most circumstances - and certainly not in the one the OP described.

[kengjw]

No biggie really.....there are much bigger things to get offended with :0)

 

Julia

[Parrothead]

No.

[Denise in Florida]

Nope, I do it myself all the time. It can be really hard to tell a child's age just from looking.

 

My girls were itty bitty things, so I often miscalculate age. Then I end up expecting 10 year old behavior from a 6 year old. oops. :blush: Or I ask about a hobby/movie/book interest and I am way misjudging their level and I sound like a crazy lady.

[lionfamily1999]

If we were a Pack of homeschoolers, age/birthdate would be the obvious way to go. Since we are a mixed Pack, grade was the most obvious given the fact that many of our kids are actually young for their grade-level and want to stay in a Den with their classmates.

 

I just had never seen someone get riled up over the grade-level question! If they decide to join the Pack, I am going to sit down and talk with the mom to try to get a feel for what is really going on because I don't think one little question about grade-level warranted all of that!

This is not a strictly hs issue, though. When I was a den leader I had boys in my den from different grades, all ps students, because they had either failed or gotten pushed ahead and their parents preferred them to be with those in the same age group.

 

Grade does not equal emotional age.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, I just want you to understand that it would not only be hs parents that didn't want to discuss grade level. I think adding in age is a good idea (1st grade or 6-7 years old, 2nd grade or 8 years old &tc). In our CSP we were the only hsers. The age option was not a result of hsers. It was for ps students that were not in their age appropriate grade for one reason or another and their parents were more comfortable listing them in an age group.

I can understand a homeschooler being confused as to where to place their child if their homeschooling was thoroughly removed from standard grade levels, especially if their child's birthday fell near the grade cutoff date. But to be offended at what is basically convenient shorthand for "With children of what age and ability level is it appropriate to place your child?" from an organization that overwhelmingly works within the public school paradigm is ridiculous overreaction.

It's not just hsers who have reason to want to avoid the grade level question.

[GoVanGogh]

Like others have said, I just say my child's age. If pressed I say, "He would be in X grader in public school." I think that is a polite way of answering the question, yet letting them know that we don't actually do grade levels.

[Mommy22alyns]

Not in the slightest. I'm perfectly comfortable referring to my girls as the grade level they'd be in for PS.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No. They don't care what curricula you are using and at what level. They just want to know where to place the child in cub scouts!

[Crissy]

No. I don't find anything about the question offensive.

[AmericanMom]

I would have been more likely to be offended at her diatribe than at being asked a simple question.

 

I have been homeschooling for almost eight years, and this is one of those things I have never gotten used to. If I ask someone what grade their kid is in, in a typical social situation, I am NOT asking them what kind of math they are doing, or how proficient a reader they are, or how much grammar they have done. I am trying to place them as far as age! It's better to ask age, yes, but that is just not the common practice. Hsers need to understand this is a social question, not a curriculum question. I tell my kids, give them the age-grade you'd be in if you were a typical student in public school. (And I make sure my kids know that.) That's what people want to know. They don't want to know your child is doing 6th grade math at age 6. They want to know she is 6. That's all, end of story. It reflects badly on hsers when people refuse to acknowledge basic social signals.

 

To me, it's like people who are greeted by strangers or slight acquaintances with "How's it going?" and launch into a speech about how it really is going. :lol: Okay, maybe I did ask how it was going, but that is a social convention, not an invitation to tell me your life story. Maybe we ought to say something else, but, like saying "you are welcome" as a response to "thank you" - which really doesn't make sense either - it is what it is.

 

Sorry. Off my soapbox now! :)

[lionfamily1999]

To further the discussion about Cubs--the grade DOES matter, because if mommy moves her lil' darlin' up two grades, he will NOT be able to join Boy Scouts with his den! He must be 10.5 AND have finished AoL or be 10.5 AND have finished 5th grade or be 11yo. If mommy wants to put her "moved-up" Webelos into Boy Scouts, she's not going to be able to do it. When the registration is turned in, the computer will spit it back out. And no amount and wailing and gnashing of teeth will make that change!

You just proved the opposite point. The grade level is not what's important, it's the AGE of the scout. Grade level does not get you into Boy Scouts, age does.

[LaxMom]

No, but I did get annoyed with my husband when he kept asking me which (grade based) lacrosse group our daughter should be in. :001_huh:

[ocelotmom]

It's not just hsers who have reason to want to avoid the grade level question.

 

But is that reason to get *offended* by the question? I can understand being tired of explaining your personal situation, especially when it wasn't really the other party's business, but is acting offended actually likely to promote the resolution of the underlying question?

 

In general, if you assume benign intent and react accordingly, things will go smoother. "We homeschool and don't go by grades. He's 7 and doesn't read particularly well. Where would you suggest he be placed?" provides much more information than "How dare you ask what grade he's in! He homeschools and we don't have to assign him to a grade!"

Edited May 28, 2011 by ocelotmom

[lionfamily1999]

But is that reason to get *offended* by the question? I can understand being tired of explaining the situation, especially when it wasn't really the other party's business, but is acting offended actually likely to promote the resolution of the situation?

I would say it's more defensive.

 

In that kind of scenerio, I'd guess the hope for resolution is that the person would just drop it and let them go by age. If that's the hope, then climbing on a soap box and giving a speech is probably effective, if grossly annoying and more likely to cause a long term wall between the speaker and the hearers.

 

If the hope is that they'll be more careful in the future (or perhaps switch to offering age as an option) then it could be just as effective. Once burned twice shy and all that. If I got that load of self-righteous houiey thrown at me, I'd be very careful to ask for their age or grade level next time someone joined.

[lionfamily1999]

In general, if you assume benign intent and react accordingly, things will go smoother. "We homeschool and don't go by grades. He's 7 and doesn't read particularly well. Where would you suggest he be placed?" provides much more information than "How dare you ask what grade he's in! He homeschools and we don't have to assign him to a grade!"

Oops, I missed this part...

 

I agree with you. I don't think she was right to get all flustered and high and mighty. However, I do think she has a point. I don't have to like how she said it, or even to agree completely with her personal reasoning, to agree with her point.

 

In Scouts age matters more than grade. That, I think, is the lesson she was trying to teach (wonder how she gets math concepts down :lol:) and it's a valuable one, imo.

[Susann]

No and in that context I would answer with the normal age/grade level.

[ocelotmom]

In Scouts age matters more than grade. That, I think, is the lesson she was trying to teach (wonder how she gets math concepts down :lol:) and it's a valuable one, imo.

But I wouldn't say that's true. Tigers, for example, is going to be (at this time of year) a mix of 6 and 7 year olds (maybe even a wider range, if you take into account redshirting), but predominately or exclusively 1st grade (disregarding wacky homeschoolers who totally reject grade-based classification :)), and Wolf is going to be 7 and 8 year olds in 2nd grade. So just knowing that a child is 7 doesn't give adequate information for placement.

 

If you give the birthdate, chances are they'll go by public school cutoffs... so effectively the same as asking the grade. Just more Politically Correct, perhaps.

[cat]

I would not be offended at all.

 

But for any future run ins I would respond, "this cub scout pack is divided according to the child's grade, I understand you have not assigned your child a grade, so just let us know which group you think he should be in based on his age, we will see how he does in that group, and if needed, we may need to move him up or down."

[lionfamily1999]

But I wouldn't say that's true. Tigers, for example, is going to be (at this time of year) a mix of 6 and 7 year olds (maybe even a wider range, if you take into account redshirting), but predominately or exclusively 1st grade (disregarding wacky homeschoolers who totally reject grade-based classification :)), and Wolf is going to be 7 and 8 year olds in 2nd grade. So just knowing that a child is 7 doesn't give adequate information for placement.

 

If you give the birthdate, chances are they'll go by public school cutoffs... so effectively the same as asking the grade. Just more Politically Correct, perhaps.

Again, though, getting away from the hser perspective and back to the public school parent/child perspective... What about the kids that failed K or 1st? They are now in the 7-8 age range, but they are in 1st grade. They should not be with Tigers, regardless of their actual real public school grade level, they should be with Wolves, which is why the scouts go by age as well as grade and ime age trumps grade.

 

Grade can make it simple, assuming you're child has no difficulties or is not overly gifted. Once you get out of the standard grade-age, though, all grades do is make it more difficult and possibly embarassing for both the parent and the scout.

 

They do use ps cut offs when scouts initially join, and from there the boy moves up with his group.

 

When it comes to using standard age-grade levels, that's great for hsers, but again, what about ps students? If the child is not at the standard grade level for their age then either the parents lie about what grade they're in, risking being "outed" by an alert/nosy scout (the scouts do try to teach honesty and the honor system) or else they go through a song and dance. Far easier to go by age. That eliminates the need for parents to explain. Not mention keeping kids from having to get into the embarrassment of explaining failing a grade, or having an invisible disorder that would not have become common knowledge otherwise.

[mom2hunangirls]

Of course I wouldn't be offended. How I answer depends on the context, though.

 

In this situation, I would have given my child's age-based grade level. If someone were asking because they wanted to give me books or curriculum materials, I would have said, "she's in X grade, but works at Y grade level in [subject]."

 

T:iagree: that's me too.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I wouldn't be offended at the question but I would also not be too concerned about the reply.

 

I've had similar conversations with parents of scouts who were moving from an age divided pack to a grade organized pack (and ended up skipping a scout rank in the process). I've also had to come up with a good place for scouts who had been held back a grade but had completed the previous rank.

 

 

It might be worth mentioning down the road. On the other hand I'm not always that close with other homeschoolers.

[NanceXToo]

No, it wouldn't bother me.

[Tammyla]

No, I wouldn't be offended.

[texasmama]

No, I would not react that way. I would give the answer of the grade level which my kids would be in if they attended school. I think that going into long explanations or defensive answers brings unwelcome attention to homeschoolers in general.

[ocelotmom]

When it comes to using standard age-grade levels, that's great for hsers, but again, what about ps students? If the child is not at the standard grade level for their age then either the parents lie about what grade they're in, risking being "outed" by an alert/nosy scout (the scouts do try to teach honesty and the honor system) or else they go through a song and dance. Far easier to go by age. That eliminates the need for parents to explain. Not mention keeping kids from having to get into the embarrassment of explaining failing a grade, or having an invisible disorder that would not have become common knowledge otherwise.

No, in this situation a child who was not at the normal age for their grade would be at a different level than their classmates at school (a child who was 7 and in 1st grade after being held back in K or 1st would be in Wolf, while their classmates would be in Tiger), which would "out" the issue. Putting a child with their grade-mates is more discreet, though I agree that it's awkward in cub scouts, where a child held back in 1st would have to do Tiger twice to stay with their grade-mates.

 

Perhaps we should just say that holding kids back creates awkward social situations and there's basically no way around that?

 

For what it's worth, I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who was held back in 1st grade (non-academic reasons - my best guess is that I needed glasses).

[Ellesmere]

No, I would not react that way. I would give the answer of the grade level which my kids would be in if they attended school. I think that going into long explanations or defensive answers brings unwelcome attention to homeschoolers in general.

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

No, in this situation a child who was not at the normal age for their grade would be at a different level than their classmates at school (a child who was 7 and in 1st grade after being held back in K or 1st would be in Wolf, while their classmates would be in Tiger), which would "out" the issue. Putting a child with their grade-mates is more discreet, though I agree that it's awkward in cub scouts, where a child held back in 1st would have to do Tiger twice to stay with their grade-mates.

 

Perhaps we should just say that holding kids back creates awkward social situations and there's basically no way around that?

 

For what it's worth, I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who was held back in 1st grade (non-academic reasons - my best guess is that I needed glasses).

You're right about the K issue, I guess red shirts would fit in there too.

 

Eh, I just think it's 'safer' to ask for age OR grade.

 

I also thought the lady sounded defensive rather than offended. Who knows though ;)

[Guest momk2000]

Absolutely not. I don't understand why anyone would be offended by this question. I usually give the grade level for dd's age, and don't even tell people she is hs'd unless I am asked where she goes to school. :)

[In the Rain]

I would not be offended if someone asked my child's grade level. I *would* be offended to have someone launch a verbal attack at me when asked a simple question. :tongue_smilie: She could have just said, "I would like to see my son placed with xx graders", or "my son is the same age as most xx graders".