WWYD Re: Teen behavior and consequences

[EKS]

Update at #40

 

My almost 15yo son and I are supposed to go on a trip this weekend. We are going to attend an event that my son is very enthusiastic about. While I'm sure I'll have an interesting time, this event really isn't my thing, but I'm going because he wants to go and he needs an adult to go with him.

 

Monday evening we had an issue where he was supposed to do something and he didn't. This happens all the time. Even with reminders he will fail to fulfill his basic responsibilities without incessant reminders.

 

So I told him he needed to prove to me that he was responsible or I wouldn't take him on the trip this weekend. I specifically told him that one way to show me he was being responsible was to actually get up in the morning on his own and be ready to start his schoolwork by 8:15. I told him that 8:15 did not mean 8:16 or later.

 

And you know what's coming. The first day he was ready at 8:16, the second day 8:15, and the third day 8:19. He got up at the same time each day, so it's not a matter of not waking up.

 

So, WWYD? Be "reasonable" and take him. Not take him? Something else?

Edited May 24, 2011 by EKS

[Jean in Newcastle]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

[ElizabethB]

I'd also give grace.

 

But...could you be 5 or 10 minutes late to the event? Would that be helpful as a lesson or rude? (Depends on the event.)

[AK_Mom4]

I think the consequences outweigh the infraction - so I voted that you should take him. Yes, it's irritating, but you aren't going to change months/years of morning behavior by hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer.

 

I have found with my teens that what works best was to let the consequences flow naturally. If they don't get started on time in the morning, then they skip their afternoon/evening activities to finish that day. And if schoolwork is supposed to be done by 2pm, then I didn't help them after that time - no point in wasting my time.

 

I realize this is about responsibility in more areas than getting up in the morning, but this is something that improves with time. My 19yo is hugely reliable, my 17yo is mostly reliable, and my 15yo is still a bit flakey. But, again, if they say they will do something and don't do it, then they have to make good on it - even if that is an inconvenience. Taking away a big event for an unrelated issue just makes for resentful teens.

[EKS]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

 

I know that one or four minutes seems like nothing, but one minute becomes four minutes becomes ten minutes becomes 30 minutes. We're actually supposed to start at 8:00, but the constant push back from him has made that slip to 8:15.

 

It's not that he can't do it, he is choosing not to. He could have easily been ready a few minutes early and we could have avoided the whole thing.

[Barb_]

Take him. He's a work in progress (as are we all).

 

Barb

[EKS]

I'd also give grace.

 

But...could you be 5 or 10 minutes late to the event? Would that be helpful as a lesson or rude? (Depends on the event.)

 

I know, we could be 5 minutes late for the plane!

 

Although that probably wouldn't teach him anything as the plane would likely still be sitting there.

[Aggie]

I'd probably take him.

 

However, the car ride there and home would be filled with discussions about responsibility: what his are, why you expect him to follow through, he's becoming a young man and needs to develop good habits now, yadda yadda yadda.

 

Then on Monday, I would follow through with teaching him how to be responsible. Around here, it's amazing how responsible the dc are when it's something they want to do! We, for good or bad, tie in their activities with their responsibilities at home. If they don't have a clean room (or whatever) they are too busy to go to their activity.

 

It's hard teaching them consistently, as you know. Is there a way to put the monkey on his back regarding his chores? I don't mind reminding dc once, because I need reminders, too. But I sure wouldn't constantly remind him. There needs to be, imo, a consequence if he's neglecting his chores.

 

And, ime, if he's being constantly *reminded*, he probably thinks he has a choice. Therefore, he's choosing not to do something.

 

Anyway...this time, I would separate the trip from his behavior. Next time, though, there'd be no way I'd take an irresponsible teen to a weekend event.

 

just my 2 cents:001_smile:

[Kim in Appalachia]

I know, we could be 5 minutes late for the plane!

 

Although that probably wouldn't teach him anything as the plane would likely still be sitting there.

 

:lol::lol: That is too true.

[Miss Marple]

I think it depends on his attitude about the tardiness. Was he testing you to see if you really meant "not a minute later" or was it just childishness? If I felt he was putting that toe just over the line to see what I would do, I would not take him. If he is, in general, compliant, I would extend grace and try to use this as a teaching model. I would let him know that I view the situation as one of extending grace because I realize he isn't fully mature.

[missmoe]

I would take him.

[Danestress]

the story he will tell the rest of his life. "I was three minutes late, so my Mom canceled my trip."

 

I travel with my boys all the time - mostly for sports. It's always really their thing and not mine. Still, the day is coming when I will likely not have a chance to take a weekend trip alone with my son. He will have a wife, and he will probably not have the time or inclination to go anywhere with his mother for the weekend very often.

 

Enjoy your weekend. Savor it. Make it fun for both of you. Look at how beautiful he is. Tell him you are proud of him. Pick another time to tell him that 8:15 does not mean 8:19. Or accept that while you will teach him many things, life will also teach him many things, and if you let 4 minute slide, either a boss, drill sergeant, wife etc will teach that, or it will turn out that in his life 4 minutes really DOESN'T matter that much.

[Brindee]

My almost 15yo son and I are supposed to go on a trip this weekend. We are going to attend an event that my son is very enthusiastic about. While I'm sure I'll have an interesting time, this event really isn't my thing, but I'm going because he wants to go and he needs an adult to go with him.

 

Monday evening we had an issue where he was supposed to do something and he didn't. This happens all the time. Even with reminders he will fail to fulfill his basic responsibilities without incessant reminders.

 

So I told him he needed to prove to me that he was responsible or I wouldn't take him on the trip this weekend. I specifically told him that one way to show me he was being responsible was to actually get up in the morning on his own and be ready to start his schoolwork by 8:15. I told him that 8:15 did not mean 8:16 or later.

 

And you know what's coming. The first day he was ready at 8:16, the second day 8:15, and the third day 8:19. He got up at the same time each day, so it's not a matter of not waking up.

 

So, WWYD? Be "reasonable" and take him. Not take him? Something else?

 

I'm just thinking that you told him the bolded part already. He did NOT follow through with what you "specifically told him." So, I think a consequence IS in order. And your stipulation of NOT following through with what you said was that he could not go on the trip.

 

Did he hear you? Did he agree? IMHO, if you don't follow through with what you stipulated, he'll understand that you don't mean what you say. He may be upset, but he shouldn't be bitter. HE is the one that made the choice not to be ready on time, NOT you! You CLEARLY stated what should happen, and what the consequence would be if it did not....right? I totally realize it's only a few minutes differece, but you clearly stated that, and you've already backed up some to 8:15 from 8:00 to give him a little more time.

If you go ahead and take him now, then next time you say, "If you don't do this, I'm going to....." he'll think, "Yeah, right, I got to go on that trip last time you said this, so I'll get to do what I want this time too!"

 

 

This seems not to be a very popular opinion, I realize, but imo you have to follow through with what you said! If he really, really wants something, he could be ready by 7:15!!! :tongue_smilie: He seemed not to want to put forth the effort for this one.

 

He shouldn't remember the time his mom wouldn't take him, he would remember the time he chose not to follow the specific rule, even with the consequence stated clearly, so he ended up getting the consequence. Then he'll remember the times he chose to follow the specific rules, and the fun times that insued because of it! It'd be EASY to take him on the trip. So, I guess the ball's in your court now.

 

Next time, maybe you could make sure the consequence you state fits the "crime." I probably wouldn't have had not going as a consequence....unless I was willing to follow through with it, as HARD as it would be!!!

Edited May 19, 2011 by Brindee

[2cents]

I voted to take him. I think the time differences are IMO not nearly big enough to penalize him. I'm into punctuality too but when it comes to something like this (in the home) I would give more leeway. He made what looks like a good effort and that's what I would focus on. :)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/teens-and-sleep

 

I may be in the minority, but I believe that with homeschooling, a teen's more natural sleep clock should be accomodated. There are even a number of PSs that have shifted their highschool schedule to allow natural sleep patterns.

 

And I think you should take him on the trip.

 

ETA: I am never late. I hate when others are late, and I've never let kid issues make me late (I only have 2). The first big change next school year when mine are home is going to be seeing what time they naturally wake and starting school based on that. This includes a strict bedtime with good night routine like we've always done.

Edited May 19, 2011 by amo_mea_filiis

[Brindee]

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/teens-and-sleep

 

I may be in the minority, but I believe that with homeschooling, a teen's more natural sleep clock should be accomodated. There are even a number of PSs that have shifted their highschool schedule to allow natural sleep patterns.

:iagree: I've found mine do better when I don't force them to get up earlier than they're ready for! They get everything done, and get it done more quickly when they get the sleep they need!

[*********]

I'm just thinking that you told him the bolded part already. He did NOT follow through with what you "specifically told him." So, I think a consequence IS in order. And your stipulation of NOT following through with what you said was that he could not go on the trip.

 

Did he hear you? Did he agree? IMHO, if you don't follow through with what you stipulated, he'll understand that you don't mean what you say. He may be upset, but he shouldn't be bitter. HE is the one that made the choice not to be ready on time, NOT you! You CLEARLY stated what should happen, and what the consequence would be if it did not....right? I totally realize it's only a few minutes differece, but you clearly stated that, and you've already backed up some to 8:15 from 8:00 to give him a little more time.

 

If you go ahead and take him now, then next time you say, "If you don't do this, I'm going to....." he'll think, "Yeah, right, I got to go on that trip last time you said this, so I'll get to do what I want this time too!"

 

 

This seems not to be a very popular opinion, I realize, but imo you have to follow through with what you said! If he really, really wants something, he could be ready by 7:15!!! :tongue_smilie: He seemed not to want to put forth the effort for this one.

 

So, I guess the ball's in your court now.

 

I'm totally with Brindee.

 

Around here, I'm the one who keeps my word. If I tell my boys 'If you don't do X, here's the consequence', then I follow through on it. I try *very* hard to match the scale of the consequence with the scale of the crime. Now for me, that would mean that being three minutes late to start school would not result in losing a weekend trip. However, if that's the consequence I set forth, then it would be followed through with. No question.

 

Also, if I set a crazy consequence because I'm frustrated/annoyed whatever, then I will apologize and revise the consequence BEFORE the child has commited the infraction. If I don't have time to do that (cool off and fix my over reaction) before the crime is commited, then too bad so sad for the kid.

 

If there's one thing my kids know for sure, it's that Mommy says what she means. It is SOOO important in keeping consistent discipline to me. My children (including my stepkids) respect me, behave well, and I enjoy them very much, and that is, in my mind, due in large part to the fact that I am consistent, and that what I say I will do, I will do.

 

My dh, on the other hand, has always struggled with this. He frequently will fly off the handle and state some crazy consequence for misbehavior. Something outrageous, like 'If you yell at your brother again, I'm putting you to bed.' When it's like 5:30 in the evening. And you know what? The boys know he won't do it. They are very aware that there is no way daddy will put them to bed at 5:30 in the evening. So what happens? They have no fear of consequence if they misbehave again. However, if Mommy said it, you better believe they know that I will put them to bed at 5:30. They don't doubt it one bit.

 

So, all that long winded response to say, I'd stick to my guns if I were you. And if you think you over reacted in your setting of consequence, then be more careful in the future. But IMHO, kids need to know you mean what you say. It just makes life so much easier for everyone.

Edited May 19, 2011 by bethanyniez

[Brindee]

 

I voted to take him. I think the time differences are IMO not nearly big enough to penalize him. I'm into punctuality too but when it comes to something like this (in the home) I would give more leeway. He made what looks like a good effort and that's what I would focus on. :)

See, :iagree: with this too. :001_smile: HOWEVER, she made it very clear exactly what she meant, then stated very clearly what the consequence would be. THAT is the reason I'm saying she should follow through with what she said, not that I think the 3 or 4 minutes late is worth that consequence.

[*********]

I also want to say (can you tell I feel strongly about this, LOL), that in my mind, not following through on what you say is the same as lying.

 

If I say 'I'm putting you in time out if you run in the house again', and then my son runs in the house again, and I don't put him in time out, then I lied. There's really no way around that. And according to my beliefs, and the beliefs we are teaching our children, lying is a sin.

 

I don't want my kids to think of me as a liar. I don't want to be a liar, because lying is sin. Therefore, I do what I say.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I'm just thinking that you told him the bolded part already. He did NOT follow through with what you "specifically told him." So, I think a consequence IS in order. And your stipulation of NOT following through with what you said was that he could not go on the trip.

 

Did he hear you? Did he agree? IMHO, if you don't follow through with what you stipulated, he'll understand that you don't mean what you say. He may be upset, but he shouldn't be bitter. HE is the one that made the choice not to be ready on time, NOT you! You CLEARLY stated what should happen, and what the consequence would be if it did not....right? I totally realize it's only a few minutes differece, but you clearly stated that, and you've already backed up some to 8:15 from 8:00 to give him a little more time.

If you go ahead and take him now, then next time you say, "If you don't do this, I'm going to....." he'll think, "Yeah, right, I got to go on that trip last time you said this, so I'll get to do what I want this time too!"

 

 

This seems not to be a very popular opinion, I realize, but imo you have to follow through with what you said! If he really, really wants something, he could be ready by 7:15!!! :tongue_smilie: He seemed not to want to put forth the effort for this one.

 

He shouldn't remember the time his mom wouldn't take him, he would remember the time he chose not to follow the specific rule, even with the consequence stated clearly, so he ended up getting the consequence. Then he'll remember the times he chose to follow the specific rules, and the fun times that insued because of it! It'd be EASY to take him on the trip. So, I guess the ball's in your court now.

 

Next time, maybe you could make sure the consequence you state fits the "crime." I probably wouldn't have had not going as a consequence....unless I was willing to follow through with it, as HARD as it would be!!!

 

I'm going to have to agree with Brindee. I have a dc who is constantly pushing, constantly testing to see if I will really follow through with what I say the consequences will be. If you are setting the bar at this level of obedience and plan to not let up on this particular rule (always being ready for school at 8:15 and there will be consequences if it is 8:16) then I would say that you need to follow through with what you told him.

 

I have another dd that isn't always on time (she may start her schoolwork a couple minutes late) or occasionally forgets to do something I've told her but it is not her HABIT to do so. She always apologizes and genuinely tries to do better next time. I don't sweat it with her but the dd that makes no effort to do better, thinks my rules are unfair and shouldn't apply to her, and only shows remorse that she got in trouble has to be dealt with differently. I can't be wishy washy, can't make up consequences and then not follow through, can't make a stand on a rule or issue one time and then not the next...I have to be the meany and be completely consistent.

[Imprimis]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

 

:iagree:

[Danestress]

Let's say that I have said, "I am going to beat your black and blue if I hear one more peep out of you," (which my incredibly gentle, gentile, well-bred mother said regularly to me). If my child looks at me and says, "Peep" I can either laugh, or I can beat him black and blue. I will choose to laugh and say, "Okay, I guess you called my bluff on that." I then have numerous options to address the situation. I refuse to have my hands tied by some line in the sand.

 

I am not a prisoner of my words. I am the parent. I am in charge. I have the authority to change my mind according to circumstances. While it may be true that I could get squeeze some additional level of compliance out of my children by having some absolute literal rule that I HAVE to beat them black and blue (or cancel the trip, or put them to bed at 5:30) I think I can get other things by being a bit more flexible. I can build trust. I can model maturity. I can laugh at myself and show them how diplomacy looks. Sometimes I might be the enforcer. Other times we might have a talk. Either way, I am very much the parent and demonstrating confidence in that role.

 

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong by doing it your way - whatever works for you. But I think it's silly to say a parent who believes she can change her mind about a consequence is a liar and sinner.

[LidiyaDawn]

I told him that 8:15 did not mean 8:16 or later.

 

And you know what's coming. The first day he was ready at 8:16, the second day 8:15, and the third day 8:19.

 

That wouldn't even register here. Seriously - do you guys all have synchronized watches or something? :001_huh:

 

Someone else mentioned teenagers and their inner clocks - there have been actual studies done on that topic and they've shown that adolescents actually function better if you let them run in line with their natural rhythms or whatever… most likely, being wide awake and ready to fly at 8 in the morning is more difficult for him than you realize.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Let's say that I have said, "I am going to beat your black and blue if I hear one more peep out of you," (which my incredibly gentle, gentile, well-bred mother said regularly to me). If my child looks at me and says, "Peep" I can either laugh, or I can beat him black and blue. I will choose to laugh and say, "Okay, I guess you called my bluff on that." I then have numerous options to address the situation. I refuse to have my hands tied by some line in the sand.

 

I am not a prisoner of my words. I am the parent. I am in charge. I have the authority to change my mind according to circumstances. While it may be true that I could get squeeze some additional level of compliance out of my children by having some absolute literal rule that I HAVE to beat them black and blue (or cancel the trip, or put them to bed at 5:30) I think I can get other things by being a bit more flexible. I can build trust. I can model maturity. I can laugh at myself and show them how diplomacy looks. Sometimes I might be the enforcer. Other times we might have a talk. Either way, I am very much the parent and demonstrating confidence in that role.

 

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong by doing it your way - whatever works for you. But I think it's silly to say a parent who believes she can change her mind about a consequence is a liar and sinner.

 

:iagree:

[Brindee]

Let's say that I have said, "I am going to beat your black and blue if I hear one more peep out of you," (which my incredibly gentle, gentile, well-bred mother said regularly to me). If my child looks at me and says, "Peep" I can either laugh, or I can beat him black and blue. I will choose to laugh and say, "Okay, I guess you called my bluff on that." I then have numerous options to address the situation. I refuse to have my hands tied by some line in the sand.

But, as you said in your example, the "beat you black and blue" comment was a bluff. You knew it. The child knew it. This situation was not a bluff. Her son is having trouble following rules, and doing what he's told. From what I gather, she was NOT bluffing, she was serious. She meant the consequence when she said it, trying to get him motivated, and was very specific about it.

 

It wasn't that hard to follow through for a week if he was motivated to do so. Sometimes you can laugh things off, but in this situation there is quite a bit riding on this. He NEEDS to change his behaviour, she gave him the rule for the week, and he could have discussed it with her to get it later, or made an effort for that few days, then talked with her to try to get her to let him start later, or something. But he just chose not to obey, basically.

 

OP, is this trip something you two could do another time? Or something like it?

[Mejane]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

 

 

:iagree:

[*********]

Let's say that I have said, "I am going to beat your black and blue if I hear one more peep out of you," (which my incredibly gentle, gentile, well-bred mother said regularly to me). If my child looks at me and says, "Peep" I can either laugh, or I can beat him black and blue. I will choose to laugh and say, "Okay, I guess you called my bluff on that." I then have numerous options to address the situation. I refuse to have my hands tied by some line in the sand.

 

I am not a prisoner of my words. I am the parent. I am in charge. I have the authority to change my mind according to circumstances. While it may be true that I could get squeeze some additional level of compliance out of my children by having some absolute literal rule that I HAVE to beat them black and blue (or cancel the trip, or put them to bed at 5:30) I think I can get other things by being a bit more flexible. I can build trust. I can model maturity. I can laugh at myself and show them how diplomacy looks. Sometimes I might be the enforcer. Other times we might have a talk. Either way, I am very much the parent and demonstrating confidence in that role.

 

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong by doing it your way - whatever works for you. But I think it's silly to say a parent who believes she can change her mind about a consequence is a liar and sinner.

 

 

If I ever said "I am going to beat you black and blue if I hear one more peep out of you", my children would know that I was joking. Because I'd never beat them black and blue. (I'd also never say that to my kids, because I don't think it's a funny joke. Ymmv.)

 

I'm talking about when we set a serious consequence for misbehavior. When it is perfectly clear to our children that we are speaking seriously, then they should know we will follow through.

 

I'm of the opinion that we should choose what we say carefully, in every situation. The Bible is full of instruction about being careful with our words, and I feel it is important.

[Lawana]

I agree with the posters who think he is testing you. One thing I have done with good success is call the dc on his/her action.

"Son, you have put me in a really tough spot. At the beginning of the week I told you what the conditions were for me to take you this weekend. You have not met those conditions. But you didn't do it in a flagrant way; you edged over the line ever so slighty, such that I'm guessing you think I won't follow through over such a 'small' infraction. Now, if I do follow through, you get to complain to everyone, 'Mom wouldn't take me because I was 4 minutes late! Can you believe how mean she is?' And I look like the bad guy. If I go against what I said and take you anyway, you get the satisfaction of knowing that you were able to control the situation to your own satisfaction and now know that I don't mean what I actually say. What say you?"

[justamouse]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

:iagree:

[Danestress]

Put aside the bluffing example (which wasn't even bluffing for my Mom - more a turn of phrase). I think we mean a lot of stupid things when we say them. Family life can be trying. I have said things I meant *at the time* but later regretted to my DH and children, and I would describe myself as a fairly calm, person. I am not one of those "venter" Moms who gets all emotional or irrational when upset. So if I sometimes say things I have rethink, I know other Moms do too. I hear a lot of Moms say that they ARE emotional, fly off the handle people at times. Obviously the best parenting thing here would be self control on the part of the parent, but if a Mom doesn't have that and makes a threat she would rather not enforce, I think she should say so.

 

I don't really care what the OP does. I think canceling to trip would rob her of a chance for a great getaway with a son who will soon be grown, but she will do what she does. She knows her son best and knows what a few minutes mean to her.

 

I think it can border on dangerous, though, to insist that women who make threats when angry HAVE to follow through on them if the prohibited behavior occurs before the threat is revoked or else they are liars and sinners. It just seems like a normal, rational, adult thing to me to say, "I know I threatened X. I have thought about this and decided that I am not going to do that. I am going to do Y instead." Obviously, one would rather not do this frequently.

 

I sometimes wonder, though, why Moms feel obliged to announce possible consequences. I am not sure I do that very often anyway. If my kids violate my rules, they often find out what the consequence is after the fact.

[WishboneDawn]

I also want to say (can you tell I feel strongly about this, LOL), that in my mind, not following through on what you say is the same as lying.

 

If I say 'I'm putting you in time out if you run in the house again', and then my son runs in the house again, and I don't put him in time out, then I lied. There's really no way around that. And according to my beliefs, and the beliefs we are teaching our children, lying is a sin.

 

I don't want my kids to think of me as a liar. I don't want to be a liar, because lying is sin. Therefore, I do what I say.

 

Remember when God told Adam that if he ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then Adam would die?

 

I think if God can understand when a consequence might be too harsh and extend us grace then it's the least a parent can do on the odd occasion.

 

I think the consequence was too much for what amounted to 5 minutes. I'd let him go. When we got back I'd discuss measures that might help him get up on time like making his bedtime earlier or letting him sleep in a bit. I'd also build in consequences where the stakes are much lower so he gets a real and direct understanding of how his lateness affects the family. Have outings where if he isn't ready to go, he's left. Nothing huge but stuff like the library or ice cream or little things he'd miss.

 

But to hang a big trip on five minutes? I think that would show an unfairness of spirit that might be a bigger issue then tardiness.

[Danestress]

And I agree with you. This whole problem would be solved if parents would really think carefully about what to say and when to say it.

 

However, when parents fail (and they do) they sometimes say things that they mean at the time but that they later see was folly. If the child meanwhile violates the prohibition, I don't condemn as a liar and sinner a parent who reasonably says, "I shouldn't have said X. I should have said Y. Here is what is going to happen ...." Parents get to change their minds sometimes.

 

And no, I don't think the "beat you black and blue" thing is funny at all. It's always amazing to me that my mother said this, since she truly is and was a gentle, loving mother. Even now, she's just very approving and affirming, so that just seems like such a weird thing to say. She also told me she was going to "beat me to a pulp" which just seems entirely gross and out of character to say. DH reports that his mother said similar things. Maybe it is generational. Ick.

[Brindee]

Put aside the bluffing example (which wasn't even bluffing for my Mom - more a turn of phrase). I think we mean a lot of stupid things when we say them. Family life can be trying. I have said things I meant *at the time* but later regretted to my DH and children, and I would describe myself as a fairly calm, person. I am not one of those "venter" Moms who gets all emotional or irrational when upset. So if I sometimes say things I have rethink, I know other Moms do too. I hear a lot of Moms say that they ARE emotional, fly off the handle people at times. Obviously the best parenting thing here would be self control on the part of the parent, but if a Mom doesn't have that and makes a threat she would rather not enforce, I think she should say so.

 

I don't really care what the OP does. I think canceling to trip would rob her of a chance for a great getaway with a son who will soon be grown, but she will do what she does. She knows her son best and knows what a few minutes mean to her.

 

I think it can border on dangerous, though, to insist that women who make threats when angry HAVE to follow through on them if the prohibited behavior occurs before the threat is revoked or else they are liars and sinners. It just seems like a normal, rational, adult thing to me to say, "I know I threatened X. I have thought about this and decided that I am not going to do that. I am going to do Y instead." Obviously, one would rather not do this frequently.

 

I sometimes wonder, though, why Moms feel obliged to announce possible consequences. I am not sure I do that very often anyway. If my kids violate my rules, they often find out what the consequence is after the fact.

I totally agree that there are times when a parent irrationally threatens something, and should apologize and explain to the child why that won't be followed through.

 

I am just answering this ONE instance. For this ONE boy. At this ONE time. :001_smile: I think she would miss out on a neat trip too, however, I still believe that in this instance with the way the boy has been, and with him consistently disobeying and not following though, and with, as I've said, her clear stipulations, she should follow through with her "threatened" consequence.

 

I agree, it's her choice, and if they do go on the trip, I hope it goes well, and I think it will be a good experience!

 

Once this is over, whatever the decision is, I think a discussion time would be good. Is the son needing more sleep? Should he be allowed to get up and start later? I tried putting my oldest to bed earlier, but he couldn't get to sleep earlier. And let me tell you, once I realized the teenagers clock and let him be up later at night and get up later in the morning, he did sooo much better!

 

Plus, I agree he DID make some changes that should be acknowledged. He was CLOSE! Maybe she can say, "You DID make progress, so therefore I will take you on this trip. While we're on this trip, or when we get home, we can discuss what would work best, and see if we can find a time that will be easier for you to get going with your schoolwork. We BOTH need to work on this together to make it better and easier for both of us!" Or something like that. Just so he knows she noticed.

 

I just think she needs to address what she said were the consequences when she says what she has decided.

[TheApprentice]

I vote for a grace period. 15 and he's getting up without you telling because he wants to go on the trip. He's trying. Always look at the positive.;)

[Brindee]

 

And no, I don't think the "beat you black and blue" thing is funny at all. It's always amazing to me that my mother said this, since she truly is and was a gentle, loving mother. Even now, she's just very approving and affirming, so that just seems like such a weird thing to say. She also told me she was going to "beat me to a pulp" which just seems entirely gross and out of character to say. DH reports that his mother said similar things. Maybe it is generational. Ick.

:iagree: Maybe it was. My mom never said that, but my dad said the pulp thing. :glare:

[Heidi]

I'd also give grace.

 

But...could you be 5 or 10 minutes late to the event? Would that be helpful as a lesson or rude? (Depends on the event.)

 

:iagree: I think that would be an appropriate consequence.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

But to hang a big trip on five minutes? I think that would show an unfairness of spirit that might be a bigger issue then tardiness.

 

This is the deal breaker for me. I do think that parents need to think before they speak (just like teens need to manage their time wisely;)) and be consistent. But - the teen years esp. seem to be a time when you can build up a relationship or do serious damage that can last a lifetime.

 

I am working on having a spirit of coming alongside my teen to work on character issues instead of playing the heavy. It seems to me (from the outside) that this is one of those issues that would benefit more from that approach. From what I understand, this has been an issue of not following through on responsibilities, right? So what have the two of you come up with together to help him follow through? Have you set up a planner for him? Notes to himself? Alarms on his watch for when he needs to do xyz? (like perhaps a 5 min. warning before school starts?) These kinds of habits do take time to establish. I'm working on some with my soon to be 14 year old. He does well for a few days and then it starts to slip. All I have to do is say, "Your slip is showing!" And he tries to make an adjustment.

 

I do have a line in the sand approach to respect issues though, and will absolutely play the heavy there.

[WishboneDawn]

This is the deal breaker for me. I do think that parents need to think before they speak (just like teens need to manage their time wisely;)) and be consistent. But - the teen years esp. seem to be a time when you can build up a relationship or do serious damage that can last a lifetime.

 

Yes. Another possible lesson in this for a teen is that any effort on his part, any improvement, won't be noticed and won't really change a parent's mind so why bother at all?

[Unicorn.]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

 

:iagree:

[OLG]

I vote for a grace period. 15 and he's getting up without you telling because he wants to go on the trip. He's trying. Always look at the positive.;)

 

:iagree:

[QueenCat]

I am not a prisoner of my words. I am the parent. I am in charge. I have the authority to change my mind according to circumstances. While it may be true that I could get squeeze some additional level of compliance out of my children by having some absolute literal rule that I HAVE to beat them black and blue (or cancel the trip, or put them to bed at 5:30) I think I can get other things by being a bit more flexible. I can build trust. I can model maturity. I can laugh at myself and show them how diplomacy looks. Sometimes I might be the enforcer. Other times we might have a talk. Either way, I am very much the parent and demonstrating confidence in that role.

 

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong by doing it your way - whatever works for you. But I think it's silly to say a parent who believes she can change her mind about a consequence is a liar and sinner.

 

:iagree:Well said. And I am not a liar if I change my mind. I simply change my mind and tell my children why I change it. Not a sin, and not a lie.

[Night Elf]

I think the consequences outweigh the infraction - so I voted that you should take him. Yes, it's irritating, but you aren't going to change months/years of morning behavior by hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer.

 

:iagree: I also think the event you're attempting to take away would be a huge consideration in the decision. If it was a movie at the local theater, I'd be inclined to not take him. If it was a big event that has been planned, I wouldn't skip it. I would find other consequences. Besides, IMHO, taking away one big event wouldn't necessarily motivate and inspire me to change. After losing something big, I wouldn't feel like there was anything larger I would lose so why bother even trying. Not that everyone feels that way, but I'm tossing out a possible result.

[BeckyFL]

I haven't read the other responses, but I think you are setting yourself up here. Someone close to me raised her children exactly as you are considering. They would be told to do something and if it wasn't done exactly as specified, they were not allowed to do whatever it was they were excited about. The end result was rebellious children. They could never live up to the expectations and they not only quit trying, they just went the other way completely. The saying "choose your battles" really applies here. If you nick pick everything, when something really worthy of correction comes around, the kid is numb from it all. Remember, the older they get, the more you loosen the reins. If you don't, the minute they leave, they go wild. At least that's been my observation in many cases.

Edited May 19, 2011 by BeckyFL

[Margo out of lurking]

Wow, I am surprised that I am one of the very few (5 at this point) who voted to not go on the trip.

 

You warned him in advance. One minute later, four minutes later . . . he could have just as easily woken up one minute earlier, four minutes earlier. But he didn't. He instead chose to willfully defy the time you had set.

 

IF you choose to take him on this trip, it shows him that you do not mean what you say and that he can continue to push the limits because there are no consequences.

 

There's no way I'd take my kid.

[Peela]

He is 15. Enjoy every moment he actually wants to spend with you :) Don't sweat the small stuff- keep it in perspective. Forgive, forget, move on. The time you spend with him is very precious even if in the midst of it you feel it is ordinary and he is annoying. My 15yo son is very annoying, I can tell you, but I hug him every morning and start fresh.

[beaners]

I agree with the posters who think he is testing you. One thing I have done with good success is call the dc on his/her action.

"Son, you have put me in a really tough spot. At the beginning of the week I told you what the conditions were for me to take you this weekend. You have not met those conditions. But you didn't do it in a flagrant way; you edged over the line ever so slighty, such that I'm guessing you think I won't follow through over such a 'small' infraction. Now, if I do follow through, you get to complain to everyone, 'Mom wouldn't take me because I was 4 minutes late! Can you believe how mean she is?' And I look like the bad guy. If I go against what I said and take you anyway, you get the satisfaction of knowing that you were able to control the situation to your own satisfaction and now know that I don't mean what I actually say. What say you?"

 

 

I think this is probably a good idea. These kinds of conversations were a far greater punishment for me than anything my parents doled out. Plus, I actually remember them as an adult. They always ended with the dreaded "You decide what action I ought to take in this situation." My own suggestions were, looking back, often far more severe than the situation warranted.

[Murphy101]

I think it depends on his attitude about the tardiness. Was he testing you to see if you really meant "not a minute later" or was it just childishness? If I felt he was putting that toe just over the line to see what I would do, I would not take him. If he is, in general, compliant, I would extend grace and try to use this as a teaching model. I would let him know that I view the situation as one of extending grace because I realize he isn't fully mature.

 

I agree with Cynthia. This entire situation is dependent on attitude or motive. If i decided we would not be going and he whined about 4 minutes, I will note, "Can you believe he had the chance to go on a great trip and couldn't be bothered to get up 4 minutes earlier to make it happen?! Sheesh.";)

 

I would have to be very, very certain this was purposeful pushing the envelop though. I know it takes us a bit more than a week to get a solid routine down and a few minutes leeway the first week would be acceptable.

[Running the race]

Take him on the trip. I have a boy JUST like yours, so I feel your pain. They could be twins.

 

I like the idea of taking it off the lunch time.

[ereks mom]

Um, when you wrote this, I thought the problem would be that he didn't even get up, not that he was a couple of minutes late. I'm all for punctuality (see the punctuality threads) but do allow a few minutes grace. I would praise him for getting himself up and going without you nagging him and would take him on the weekend.

 

I was expecting the same thing. And I agree with Jean; I would extend grace since he was only a few minutes late. And then I'd work on the punctuality thing in the future.

[MischiefManaged]

Too little info. I'm voting 'other.' :tongue_smilie:

If he is normally a fairly happy, compliant child I'd side w/ Danestress. Especially if it's a BIG deal that involves plane$. ;)

 

If he's normally an ungrateful brat then I'd be late for the trip...and not say anything until you're just ....late. Especially if it's such a big deal that it involves plane$. :D

 

Another option: stick to your guns this weekend, and pursue a different option next weekend. Unless this is one of those once-in-a-lifetime type of things.....