Mike Rowe testifies before the Senate.

[fairfarmhand]

Have ya'll seen this?

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/mike-rowe-senate-testimony.html

 

The fellow makes some great points.

[unsinkable]

here's an excerpt to wet your whistle:

 

I believe we need a national PR Campaign for Skilled Labor. A big one. Something that addresses the widening skills gap head on, and reconnects the country with the most important part of our workforce.

 

Right now, American manufacturing is struggling to fill 200,000 vacant positions. There are 450,000 openings in trades, transportation and utilities. The skills gap is real, and it's getting wider. In Alabama, a third of all skilled tradesmen are over 55. They're retiring fast, and no one is there to replace them.

 

Alabama's not alone. A few months ago in Atlanta I ran into Tom Vilsack, our Secretary of Agriculture. Tom told me about a governor who was unable to move forward on the construction of a power plant. The reason was telling. It wasn't a lack of funds. It wasn't a lack of support. It was a lack of qualified welders.

 

In general, we're surprised that high unemployment can exist at the same time as a skilled labor shortage. We shouldn't be. We've pretty much guaranteed it.

 

In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel.

[speedmom4]

I love Mike Rowe. I love it that he is sticking up for the working man!

 

Thanks for sharing,

 

Elise in NC

[fairfarmhand]

"A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber, if you can find one, is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both."

 

here is one of my favorite quotes.

[unsinkable]

"A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber, if you can find one, is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both."

 

here is one of my favorite quotes.

 

:lol:

[elegantlion]

"A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber, if you can find one, is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both."

 

here is one of my favorite quotes.

 

Thankfully my dh can do the plumbing, he was working on ours today. I might be in need of the other soon, however. :glare: :lol: I love Mike Rowe too, off to read.

[sparrow]

:thumbup:

 

I have an example of the stupidity of the situation. We own a business that requires that we have a close relationship with an electrician. He's a Master Electrician that has worked with my family for 20 years and he's in his late sixties.

 

Last year he had his last apprentice. The state was insisting he go for specialized, expensive training, and be tested on whether he knew how to train an apprentice or not :glare:. The man has trained countless apprentices who have moved on to an electrician career. Why on earth would he need special training? Expensive training, at that!

[Just Another Jen]

Mike Rowe rocks! My 17 year old is running his own painting and roofing business. He learned all his skills from helping his Dad (software engineer by day- jack of all trades at night) and Grandad (master carpenter) since he was about 11. He can't understand how anyone is out of work. He's turning jobs down. Most could be done by the homeowners themselves but no one knows how to "do" anything anymore.

[....]

The author of Boys Adrift (I feel like I quote that book constantly) talks about this. He uses statistics on plumbers. There was a program where this group of plumbers offered to train young adults for free to be plumbers. A very small percentage of the kids could show up for training or stick with it to the end. :confused: The group of plumbers was trying to tell them, "This is a really good job! You can make a lot of money with your own business." And, the kids still weren't motivated.

[fairfarmhand]

The author of Boys Adrift (I feel like I quote that book constantly) talks about this. He uses statistics on plumbers. There was a program where this group of plumbers offered to train young adults for free to be plumbers. A very small percentage of the kids could show up for training or stick with it to the end. :confused: The group of plumbers was trying to tell them, "This is a really good job! You can make a lot of money with your own business." And, the kids still weren't motivated.

 

see, plumbing, electricians, carpentry...they are not "glamorous" jobs. But at 10 pm when your toilet won't flush you definitely want one.

[kitten18]

I LOVE that Mike Rowe.:D

 

I just finished listening to Boys Adrift (Leonard Sax), he makes the same points in his book.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Thanks for sharing. I, too, love Mike Rowe!

[Mynyel]

I agree with all this.

 

"Blue collar" jobs have been looked down upon for so long that no one wants to do them. It is all about the 4 year and 6 year degrees. Well I have always said you can only have so many people with degrees that can have the jobs available.

 

My dh and I were talking about this yesterday, I was telling him that if you want to really make it in the world now, learning a hand on skill is the way to go.

 

Making furniture (people need to sit), clothes (we do not want people running around naked), plumbing (thinking I always want my toilet to flush), carpentry (we need homes!), roofing (no one wants a leaky roof), painting (things look better with a coat of paint), gardening (There are some that just don't want to get dirty :D), mechanic (cars always have and always will break down), hair stylist (someone will always need a hair cut) anything that makes you self sufficient can make you money later on.

 

I have said to (well not on the board but here at home) that there are jobs out there, people just won't (there are some, and I personally know a few that won't do certain jobs as it is beneath them) or can't do them. Like the jobs we are talking here.

 

Hmmm.... I see new things to learn in the coming months! :)

[G5052]

DH was a tradesman and had to change careers because of disability. He always speaks fondly of his days in the trades and to this day can fix almost anything that doesn't involve being on the roof or heavy lifting. On Sunday our water softener "bridged." He rallied the troops, and we dragged it down to the ditch, cleaned it out, got it hooked up again, and refilled it with fresh salt. My ten years of college didn't exactly help then.

 

There certainly is still a place for the trades, and the pay can be quite good!

[Carrie12345]

I'm glad this was posted, but it seems to be taking over my day.

 

Our family has always loved Mike Rowe, but I had no clue about http://www.mikeroweworks.com until this morning, and I'm completely sucked in. It's quickly becoming the focus of our school day, which really stinks when we have quite a bit of math, grammar, and science to wrap up in a few short weeks!!!! :tongue_smilie:

 

FWIW, I do struggle with the whole skilled labor vs. higher ed careers issue. I'm a wannabe homesteader, but expect that my children will go on to degreed fields. Dh can get awful dirty in his job, but spends much more time on the corporate aspects.

 

So I'm not afraid of "dirty" work, I see great value in trade skills... but I'm obviously caught up in the unhealthy social dynamic. So this has spurred a topic I hope to examine closely with my family.

 

Genuine thanks, and sarcastic "Thanks a lot!" :lol:

[GWOB]

Thank you so much for posting this! I've been think about this recently. We are remodeling our upstairs bathroom. In order to make more room for storage, we decided to relocate the toilet to another wall. While my dh was perfectly capable of doing this himself (thanks to a jack-of-all-trades dad), he works a lot of hours. We called the only plumber in our tiny town for an estimate. $900 to move a toilet less than 5 feet! My dh decided he did indeed have the time to do it himself. Materials cost around $20 and the job was completed in about 8 hours.

 

This incident got me thinking about a blurb I read in some random homeschooling book. The parents had hsed in somewhat of a classical manner. Their boys werewell-educated, but the oldest decided he really wanted to be a mechanic. Mom was proud of her son, saying he was probably the only mechanic who quoted Shapespeare while working.

 

This is a classical education board. We are dedicated to providing our children with a rigorous education. I bet most of us want out kids to go off to college. I do too. But, I too would be happy with a mechanic son who quotes Shakespeare, or a hair stylist daughter who appreciates classical music, or an electrician kid who can read Latin and Greek, or a kid who can build their own deck and come inside and read War and Peace.

[dirty ethel rackham]

OP, thanks for the article. Very interesting. Now, the plumbers and electricians I can see. However, I know plenty of out-of-work carpenters. None of them can afford to support their families so their wives are working low-paying jobs to keep the lights on and food on the table.

[plansrme]

This is a subject near and dear to my heart. It pains me to see kids go off to college, spend (or borrow) tens of thousands of dollars, and get out with a degree that gives them almost no chance of finding employment, when they would be much better off pursuing an honest trade. Really, does the country need more unemployed college graduates with degrees in sociology, or more carpenters? Heck, play your cards right, and you can get paid while you learn a trade! So 4 years after high school, not only are you qualified to plumb or wire or build a house, but you also have spent 4 years building a resume and not going into debt.

 

FWIW, Tom Silva, from This Old House, has also been talking about this impending shortage for many years.

 

And yeah, Mike Rowe rocks!

 

Terri

[Oak Knoll Mom]

The author of Boys Adrift

 

I just finished listening to Boys Adrift (Leonard Sax), he makes the same points in his book.

 

This sounds like a great book. I just noticed that the nook allows lending on this book. Is there anyone out there who can lend it to me? I'll be happy to lend you anything in return!

[snickelfritz]

Also, skilled welders. Dh was recently talking about the average age of their welders.

[Mrs Mungo]

A lot of the problem with the skills gap is directly related to the pay gap between trained (usually union) and untrained (usually non-union) workers. Since right-to-work passed in so many states, there is a big problem with companies firing their trained, highly skilled union workers who showed up every day, who submitted to drug tests, etc and hiring untrained unreliable employees at a fraction of the cost.

 

NOW they want trained, licensed workers who bring their own tools and supplies, provide their own insurance, travel from job to job, stay in a motel for short jobs (often in pricey cities), not receive a pension, etc and pay them like they pay unskilled day laborers. When you figure everything together some jobs will profit only about $5/hour.

 

Unions used to help fill that gap, offering group insurance and pensions. Now, it isn't unusual for skilled workers to be fired if they even mention a union. Slowly, the pendulum is swinging back the other way because of shortages. Shortages are only going to get worse because you get what you pay for. You need to pay people enough that they are making a decent living. You get what you pay for.

 

My grandfather owned a plumbing business for years and years. After my grandfather had been retired for 20 years my uncle finally closed up shop. He and all of his employees went to work at the local military base because they were clean living, reliable, well trained employees.

 

My dh's BIL is a union electrician. He's been working in San Antonio for about 2 years, but before that he was on and off work, traveling around looking for jobs, getting on the books in different states, it's not that easy to remain continuously employed.

 

One of my best friend's dh now works a really good job at Boeing, but before that it was the same thing-traveling from job to job, not knowing where their next paycheck might come from, it wears on families.

[Mrs Mungo]

OP, thanks for the article. Very interesting. Now, the plumbers and electricians I can see. However, I know plenty of out-of-work carpenters. None of them can afford to support their families so their wives are working low-paying jobs to keep the lights on and food on the table.

 

I agree with this, but I think it's related to what I said above and what Mike Rowe was talking about in his testimony. These jobs aren't being valued and it's creating a serious problem down the road.

[sparrow]

I meant to add in my earlier post that The Diane Rehm Show covered this topic on Monday, as well:

 

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-05-16/college-right-everyone

 

I only caught part of it, as I was in and out of the car. I wanted to go back and listen to the whole thing because it was so interesting!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'll have to watch this. My dad just retired from a 40+ year career in manufacturing (timber industry - plywood and doors, and chemicals - paint, adhesives, solvents, etc). He often comments about how much trouble he had hiring and retaining people who could work in his plants.

 

It wasn't just that it was hard work. It was hard, but not in a no one would want to do this way. His problem was that his employees had such poor reading skills and math skills and reasoning skills that they could only do what they'd memorized how to do. They struggled to mix batches (ratios and measuring), to read safety notices, to think through how the line should be organized or what order steps should be in (his plant mixed many different products, so the production line changed frequently according to the contract).

 

I remember reading an article on Hawaii public schools years ago. The head of the local trades union org was interviewed. His org had formed remedial classes to prepare high school grads with the math skills needed to pass the tests to be accepted to apprenticeship program. Because they couldn't get enough qualified candidates for apprenticeships. (May 2007 Honolulu Magazine, see page 3 of the article)

 

There is a math and reading and thinking component to trades. And we've failed those students as much as we have failed in not exposing them and others to quality writing and science and technology.

 

But Rowe is also right that we've denigrated working with ones hands. By framing certain jobs as "jobs Americans won't do" we create an expectation that certain work is too hard or too dirty or too sweaty. I just find that silly.

 

In the military, there are tons of jobs that are quite similar to what gets classified as "jobs Americans won't do" in the civilian world. A ship's crew, for example is responsible for everything, from cooking to scullery to laundry to mopping to general painting to repair and maintenance of the sewage system. It is hard work. It is long work. But there is not reason why it should be beyond the capabilites of today's young men and women (either physically, mentally or emotionally).

[merry gardens]

here's an excerpt to wet your whistle:

 

I believe we need a national PR Campaign for Skilled Labor. A big one. Something that addresses the widening skills gap head on, and reconnects the country with the most important part of our workforce.

 

Right now, American manufacturing is struggling to fill 200,000 vacant positions. There are 450,000 openings in trades, transportation and utilities. The skills gap is real, and it's getting wider. In Alabama, a third of all skilled tradesmen are over 55. They're retiring fast, and no one is there to replace them.

 

Alabama's not alone. A few months ago in Atlanta I ran into Tom Vilsack, our Secretary of Agriculture. Tom told me about a governor who was unable to move forward on the construction of a power plant. The reason was telling. It wasn't a lack of funds. It wasn't a lack of support. It was a lack of qualified welders.

 

In general, we're surprised that high unemployment can exist at the same time as a skilled labor shortage. We shouldn't be. We've pretty much guaranteed it.

 

In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel.

Thanks for wetting my whistle. Great article! I have a couple of boys who love to work on "dirty jobs" and a jack-of-all-trades/engineer husband who sounds much like Mike Rowe's grandfather. I'll confess that I'm one of the snobs who wants to push my boys into four-year-degrees and white collar jobs. Those "dirty jobs" they love might be a better place for them to earn a living.

[Mrs Mungo]

In the military, there are tons of jobs that are quite similar to what gets classified as "jobs Americans won't do" in the civilian world. A ship's crew, for example is responsible for everything, from cooking to scullery to laundry to mopping to general painting to repair and maintenance of the sewage system. It is hard work. It is long work. But there is not reason why it should be beyond the capabilites of today's young men and women (either physically, mentally or emotionally).

 

But, see? The military pays a decent wage, they have full medical benefits for themselves and their families. Their families are settled in one location even if they have to travel hither and yon. The work is stable. Even if they get hurt, they will still get paid. There is a pension involved. All of that makes it worth it. The military pays for training and certificates, including renewals. That's why so many skilled workers stick with the military despite high wages on the outside for some of them.

 

They are having trouble attracting the same caliber employees on the outside because the cost/wages ratio is off.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I agree with this, but I think it's related to what I said above and what Mike Rowe was talking about in his testimony. These jobs aren't being valued and it's creating a serious problem down the road.

 

While I think Rowe has a point about valuing these types of jobs. I guess I was objecting to including carpenters in this list of under-filled, skilled jobs. My point was, around here, carpenters are out of work because there isn't work for them to do. If no one is building anything, they don't have work. They can be off work for weeks, months, years at a time. Most carpenters I know are married to day-care workers because that is the only job their wives can do and afford the day care.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Have ya'll seen this?

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/mike-rowe-senate-testimony.html

 

The fellow makes some great points.

 

This article, Shop Class as Soul Craft, came out a few years back. Good read. The book based on the idea is my current waiting room book.

 

The general idea is that we're missing a vital element in our emotional and mental lives by not working more with our hands.

 

Actually, this probably has some good parallels with the ideas in Radical Homemakers. A world where we don't put our hands to making anything, where we just pick up what we want - ready made, where we don't understand how what we use and consume works, is a place where we may not thrive as much as in a world where we are more connected to what surrounds us.

 

(FWIW, I think this is some of why knitting, beading and crochet is making a come back. I get a little thrill to seeing my kids wear a scarf I've made. More than I get by ordering something from Lands' End.)

[Dad 4 Boys]

I forwarded this to a guy I know at the large local mechanical contractor who does a lot of work at the plant where I'm employeed as an engineer. He's a senior pipefitter with an early 20s son just finishing up his pipefitter apprenticeship. Since we're in St. Louis, it's all union. I thought he could provide a unique perspective on this issue, especially its effects locally. I'll report back on what he has to say.

[Sevilla]

Around here the men I know who work in the trades (plumbing, carpentry, electrician, HVAC) all deal with regular lay offs during the down season and uncertain income. They have pension/health insurance through the union and a guaranteed wage, but there isn't enough work to keep everyone going year round so their families are very close to the margin financially unless they rise to 'white collar' positions within the trades such as management (which can also require an additional degree).

[Mrs Mungo]

While I think Rowe has a point about valuing these types of jobs. I guess I was objecting to including carpenters in this list of under-filled, skilled jobs. My point was, around here, carpenters are out of work because there isn't work for them to do. If no one is building anything, they don't have work. They can be off work for weeks, months, years at a time. Most carpenters I know are married to day-care workers because that is the only job their wives can do and afford the day care.

 

I agree that carpenters have a harder time than some of these other jobs because they are so reliant on home construction.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

But, see? The military pays a decent wage, they have full medical benefits for themselves and their families. Their families are settled in one location even if they have to travel hither and yon. The work is stable. Even if they get hurt, they will still get paid. There is a pension involved. All of that makes it worth it. The military pays for training and certificates, including renewals. That's why so many skilled workers stick with the military despite high wages on the outside for some of them.

 

They are having trouble attracting the same caliber employees on the outside because the cost/wages ratio is off.

 

I don't disagree that the military benefits are often better.

 

What I was protesting was some articles and comments I've recently read that state (not even suggest, but outright say) that today's teens are incapable of doing hard work. As in physically unable to do it.

 

I will agree that they are not well prepared. But I don't think that we're growing teens with fewer arms and legs or brains that cannot learn. We are choosing to not teach them how to use their arms and legs; and we're choosing to not teach them to read, calculate and reason.

 

I'm not sure that I think unionization is the panacea. There is plenty going on within the union behemoth that I dislike. I do think that saying American's won't do something, so let's pay someone else under the table for it or let's get it made in China is going to be our downfall.

 

(I don't really understand, for example, why people in trades most harmed by off the books workers who keep trade wages low continue to support policies and politicians committed to keeping the flow of these illegal workers undiminished. But I'm trying not to derail a discussion of the honorability of hard work into something about one political party or the other. Because there is plenty to rail at from the party I vote for in this matter too.)

[I.Dup.]

I have a major crush on Mike Rowe. I think my husband does too. :lol:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree that carpenters have a harder time than some of these other jobs because they are so reliant on home construction.

 

Carpentry is probably also a field where employers are more willing to employ workers with lower skills.

 

Plumbing and electricity is seen as lower tolerance for mistakes. And may have certification or inspection requirements.

 

Not saying that carpentry is low skilled, but that it covers a wide spectrum of jobs from building a fence to a shed to a wall to roofing to cabinetry. And that some of those jobs can be done by people with entry level skills or by people who are willing to work hard for low pay.

[Mrs Mungo]

What I was protesting was some articles and comments I've recently read that state (not even suggest, but outright say) that today's teens are incapable of doing hard work. As in physically unable to do it.

 

I will agree that they are not well prepared. But I don't think that we're growing teens with fewer arms and legs or brains that cannot learn. We are choosing to not teach them how to use their arms and legs; and we're choosing to not teach them to read, calculate and reason.

 

What I'm saying is that there have always been people who couldn't do it. However, those who *can* are the ones being encouraged to go to college in pursuit of a better job.

 

I'm not sure that I think unionization is the panacea. There is plenty going on within the union behemoth that I dislike. I do think that saying American's won't do something, so let's pay someone else under the table for it or let's get it made in China is going to be our downfall.

 

I don't think unionization is either a panacea or the great evil some people make it out to be. There isn't one union behemoth, so I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I think unionizing is one way to cover some of the gaps that I mentioned. There are also people who take advantage of those helps to be sure (like collecting unemployment in more than one state).

 

Leaving the other stuff off because I think there is plenty of political blame to go around.

[Meriwether]

I would like all of my kids to get a degree. I would also like them to learn a trade. If I can find someone who will train them while they live at home, I'll go that route in a heartbeat. When my little brother graduated high school, he could build a house from the ground up. He learned a lot in construction science and on the job, but he had a great skill set before he started school.

 

I don't think unionization is either a panacea or the great evil some people make it out to be. There isn't one union behemoth, so I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I think unionizing is one way to cover some of the gaps that I mentioned. There are also people who take advantage of those helps to be sure (like collecting unemployment in more than one state).

 

Leaving the other stuff off because I think there is plenty of political blame to go around.

 

I'm sure you are speaking from your own experience. I'm not trying to debate that. There is always a reason why unions get started. If companies just did right by their employees, unions wouldn't get formed. That being said, I think unions always, as time goes on, take things too far. I have about half a dozen uncles/cousins in electrical work/plumbing and a brother who works in construction. They don't belong to unions. They are skilled labor. They show up at their jobs every day. They are willing to take drug tests. They save for their own retirement. Your characterization of nonunion workers was a bit broad.

[Random]

Carpentry is probably also a field where employers are more willing to employ workers with lower skills.

 

Plumbing and electricity is seen as lower tolerance for mistakes. And may have certification or inspection requirements.

 

Not saying that carpentry is low skilled, but that it covers a wide spectrum of jobs from building a fence to a shed to a wall to roofing to cabinetry. And that some of those jobs can be done by people with entry level skills or by people who are willing to work hard for low pay.

 

 

Sure, and it is also a field where people who can afford quality are willing to pay for it. Just like other professions, the carpenter who is highly skilled can charge a lot more than the entry level guy. However, the max a carpenter can earn is less than the max of white collar professions.

 

I know some sloppy carpenters, and they are the ones who cannot find any work right now.

 

But, I know several carpenters who are turning work down because they are just too busy. They busy ones are the ones who do good work, even though they may not charge the lowest rate.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

My husband is a union electrician. The recession has been very, very hard, but he has not regretted his career choice. He loves his work and he likes the type of people with whom he spends his day. He is proud to be a journeyman wireman. He's proud of his skills and experience.

 

My oldest son is considering something really out-of-the-box for his future: He's thinking of becoming a union electrician and then going to college.

 

We can't afford anything for college, and he doesn't want massive debt. After being a child of the recession, he also wants to be working and earning ASAP.

 

If he goes with this plan, we will convert our garage to an apartment for him. He will go through the apprenticeship and live at home for the 5 years. He'll pay his Daddy $100/wk for room and board and save the rest of his income.

 

After he becomes a journeyman, he can take that bundle of cash and go to college (his other dream is to be an ophthalmologist). Or he might decide that he likes being an electrician and will be able to use that money to buy a house, get married, invest, or whatever.

 

He has a very good mind for academics and would be an excellent scientist, doctor, or lawyer, so I do hope he will someday go to college. I have to admire him for wanting to learn a trade first and pay his own way through life.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm sure you are speaking from your own experience. I'm not trying to debate that. There is always a reason why unions get started. If companies just did right by their employees, unions wouldn't get formed. That being said, I think unions always, as time goes on, take things too far. I have about half a dozen uncles/cousins in electrical work/plumbing and a brother who works in construction. They don't belong to unions. They are skilled labor. They show up at their jobs every day. They are willing to take drug tests. They save for their own retirement. Your characterization of nonunion workers was a bit broad.

 

Sorry, I obviously wasn't being clear in what I was saying. My uncle has never been a union plumber, he owned his own business and now he works for the government. I wasn't broad-brushing non-union employees.

 

Your families members obviously work for businesses that pay them well enough to save for retirement and all of that.

 

What I was trying to say is that many companies low-ball pay for skilled laborers as if they are unskilled day laborers and are surprised at the low quality of the employees they get in return.

[Lady Florida.]

I have a major crush on Mike Rowe. I think my husband does too. :lol:

 

 

I think everyone who's familiar with Mike Rowe has a crush on him. :lol:

[Lady Florida.]

I often say (IRL) that a degree should be sought only if your chosen field requires a degree. A college degree just for the sake of having one can be an expensive piece of paper.

 

However, I also had an experience in which my college education earned me a job unrelated to my degree. Some years back, I quit teaching for a while. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I applied for a position as a veterinary technician. I had no experience other than being an animal lover and having had cats and dogs throughout my life. The veterinarian who owned the practice later told me that none of the applicants had any experience. He hired me because he figured having a college degree showed that I had the ability to learn. I don't agree with that view (nearly anyone has the ability to learn), but can't deny that employers sometimes make hiring decisions based on such an assumption.

[mcconnellboys]

His points are completely valid and I've been reading similar comments in articles for the past couple of years. We can't survive as a society without some subset of people who make the stuff we use, repair it, etc. We can't be a society of nothing but consumers, with no producers to create and repair our products for us. I'm afraid it's just not feasible to call China, etc. every time we need a repair....

[justamouse]

That's flipping awesome.

[elegantlion]

OP, thanks for the article. Very interesting. Now, the plumbers and electricians I can see. However, I know plenty of out-of-work carpenters. None of them can afford to support their families so their wives are working low-paying jobs to keep the lights on and food on the table.

 

My dh has been a self-employed carpenter for over 30 years. This last year has been the hardest ever. I haven't had to work since ds was born, specifically because ds can do most (and has done) all areas of construction.

 

While I think Rowe has a point about valuing these types of jobs. I guess I was objecting to including carpenters in this list of under-filled, skilled jobs. My point was, around here, carpenters are out of work because there isn't work for them to do. If no one is building anything, they don't have work. They can be off work for weeks, months, years at a time. Most carpenters I know are married to day-care workers because that is the only job their wives can do and afford the day care.

 

Where we lived the economy tanked the construction industry. We moved back to be near family and things are better. But the winter slowed things down considerably.

 

I agree that carpenters have a harder time than some of these other jobs because they are so reliant on home construction.

 

True. Be diverse and doing remodeling work is my dh's forte. It takes a different set of skills to work primarily with homeowners than it does with a construction foreman.

 

Carpentry is probably also a field where employers are more willing to employ workers with lower skills.

 

Plumbing and electricity is seen as lower tolerance for mistakes. And may have certification or inspection requirements.

 

Not saying that carpentry is low skilled, but that it covers a wide spectrum of jobs from building a fence to a shed to a wall to roofing to cabinetry. And that some of those jobs can be done by people with entry level skills or by people who are willing to work hard for low pay.

 

Part of the issue in our previous town was that skilled sub-contractors were near impossible to find. Many people were drop outs that had no other options but to swing a hammer. They could not have dealt with the business end of the business, they just knew how to work hard. There are a lot of prejudice towards the industry because it was viewed as the job the uneducated pursued. Now that we're gone from that area, I can see how much that attitude played with dh's self-esteem.

 

When dh and I grew up carpentry/construction is viewed as a valued profession (for the most part). People can make a choice for career in that field and NOT get looked down upon.

 

We're teaching ds the skill of construction. In fact he's at work now with dh because I'm sick. I don't believe ds has any desire to go into the construction business (I hope not anyway), but at least he'll have the skill. It's not only a family skill being passed down, it's a skill that can save him money down the road. I fully expect ds to be able to handle most maintenance on his own home. It will go on his resume when he starts thinking about getting married. :D That and the ability to quote Shakespearean sonnets from memory. We rewrote one a couple of weeks ago in Dirty Jobs style. "Shall I compare thee to a dirty job..."

[Wildiris]

DH has a four year degree in studio art and became a carpenter/contractor. He got pushed out of this trade for two reasons.

1. To compete one needed to hire undocumented workers with few skills who needed a lot of oversight or walls might not be plumb. Instead, DH hired local young men from our community at a higher wage, but clients want jobs done cheap.
   
   
2. Since the down-turn in the economy, building and remodeling is a luxury few can afford.
   

We are now scrabbling to build a new business which is more forgiving to a middle age body.

 

My oldest son did not go to college and instead chose a trade school. The student load debt (another story) is huge, but he is currently employed, can weld, fix cars and heavy equipment, and operate heavy equipment. He will be 21 next month.

[elegantlion]

[*]Since the down-turn in the economy, building and remodeling is a luxury few can afford.

We are now scrabbling to build a new business which is more forgiving to a middle age body.

 

 

I think this is an important point to consider. My dh is a mover, he never sits down. He was borderline ADD as a child. He's had to work through two broken wrists (at the same time), many minor injuries, and a head injury just in the last few years. He's now 50 and slowing down.

 

He's kicking himself for not going back to school 15 years ago and start working in computers.

 

He'd love to train apprentices, but with the current economy there is no way. People want jobs done cheap and they want them done yesterday. If you're training while you're working it's near impossible to meet deadlines.

 

The trades are physical hard work. IMO you have to have a back up plan. We didn't and dh, although he loves his work, is transitioning his business. He's trying to take on more handyman type jobs. I can't talk him into working in a kilt and marketing himself that way. :D Construction seems easy when you're twenty and your body responds how you want. At 50 it's harder to get up in the morning.

 

In our family we are urging (planning/forcing) ds to get a degree in something. Even if he does choose construction with a degree he can get out easier than without one. Thankfully he's leaning toward computers, but he may use construction to help pay for that degree.

 

I would also like to see a training program where those in trades can learn more business skills. Communication, record keeping, taxes, promoting your business, ethics, these are some of the skills that are sorely needed in the industry.

[Mejane]

And here I thought I couldn't love Mike more. :001_wub:

[WishboneDawn]

 

This is a classical education board. We are dedicated to providing our children with a rigorous education. I bet most of us want out kids to go off to college. I do too. But, I too would be happy with a mechanic son who quotes Shakespeare, or a hair stylist daughter who appreciates classical music, or an electrician kid who can read Latin and Greek, or a kid who can build their own deck and come inside and read War and Peace.

 

I've actually got this idea in my head that, unless they have some burning ambition only university can help them with, my kids will find trades first and then take university courses/gets degrees on their own buck and according to their own interest.

 

My dad and brothers are/were aircraft maintenance engineers. It's a trade that's taken them all over the country and the world. There's wonderful potential in some trades for the kind of life a lot of people dream about.

[WishboneDawn]

 

It wasn't just that it was hard work. It was hard, but not in a no one would want to do this way. His problem was that his employees had such poor reading skills and math skills and reasoning skills that they could only do what they'd memorized how to do. They struggled to mix batches (ratios and measuring), to read safety notices, to think through how the line should be organized or what order steps should be in (his plant mixed many different products, so the production line changed frequently according to the contract).

 

My dad had similar complaints before he retired. He left school in junior high in the 40's to start his career but has reading and math skills far beyond what I'm betting most high school grads do now (there's some pretty advanced math that's considered basic knowledge when you're fixing helicopters and fixed wing aircraft). Common sense was another thing he thought most apprentices lacked. Oh, and a sense of pride in work and any connection between what they did that day and the safety of people down the line.

 

My brothers followed him into the career. My sister and I didn't. My brothers also dropped out of school when they realized it wasn't for them. My sister and I stuck it up and did relatively well.

 

I sometimes think it was the ditching of school that gave my brothers the guts to pursue such a demanding job while it was our extra years in school that convinced my sister and I, or at least me, that safe mediocrity was a better bet.

[Jamee]

When dh and I grew up carpentry/construction is viewed as a valued profession (for the most part). People can make a choice for career in that field and NOT get looked down upon.

 

 

 

It's getting to the point that teaching is looked upon this way too. :confused: My high school used to have an awesome vocational training program: ag, metal shop, auto, etc. I think ag may be all that's left and I doubt that will survive when the teacher retires--same who was there when I was. The other teachers have all long left and the programs were cut. It's such a shame for those kids. Our auto program was amazing and it wasn't uncommon for teachers and students to have their cars worked on at the school, you just supplied the parts.

 

We have a couple friends who never went to college, weren't meant to go to college and can do amazing things with their hands. They're in jobs now that are making way more than we are. It took time to get to that level, but since no one out there can do their jobs.. . . There needs to be a balance. I hope this is the start of a wake-up call that not everyone can or should go to college but that there are other, highly valued jobs that are needed.