What makes you think you can educate your child if you're not certified?

[Little Nyssa]

Look at the assessment tests I had DS take at the end of the year, the same test the PS kids take. It showed him 1, 2, or 3 years ahead in every subject. I think I'm qualified. (that's just one of many answers I could give...)

[texasmama]

I deal with educators often because one of my kids receives services through the local school district for OT and speech.

 

Yesterday I met with the Director of Special Ed, who asked me if I really thought I could teach the upper levels of high school subjects. I didn't mind the question because it revealed her bias and allowed me to do some educating about the options available to homeschoolers. I told her that I have a master's degree, a journalism background, and a college minor in English so I feel pretty competent to handle language arts through high school using a good curriculum. I told her that although I have taken precalculus, statistics and chemistry at the college level, I don't feel competent to teach the higher level maths or the advanced sciences (chemistry and physics) which involve math so I would outsource those, most likely after Algebra 1.

 

This gave me the chance to inform her of the options of co op classes, university model schools, etc. for the higher level subjects and that I make a plan for our homeschooling one year at a time. This was clearly a question which had been burning in her brain for a long time, and I was glad she asked me. I cleared up the misconception of homeschoolers hiding their kids in a closet to protect them from the world and neglecting their education. I was also able to tell her how I was educating myself regarding conceptual math since I am now teaching it. Hopefully, she can imagine how she (as a parent) could and would do this if she felt it was necessary for her child. This was also in the context of a discussion about how school is not an option for one of my kids (private or public) because of his needs, which is a bit disarming.

 

When confronted, I do rely heavily on my own college education, laugh and say, "I think I can handle the 4th grade!"

 

(I haven't read any of the other replies so no doubt this discussion has gone on a rabbit trail and I have been left at the fork. :tongue_smilie:)

[Tammyla]

I've trained my mouth to answer with the following question.

"Why do you ask?"

 

If I'm not feeling all warm and fuzzy that day:glare:...I'll hit with a string of..."I beg your pardon...could you repeat that?" No one has ever made it past the third repeat without giving up. (My mil believes I have very selective hearing.;))

[kimnc]

"What makes you think I can't?"

 

IF I sense that they are serious, and not just trying to be a jerk, I might ask why they are asking.

 

Some of these responses are excellent. Although, like the OP, I probably would also draw a blank, because I tend to freeze up when challenged like that. Usually the snarky replies come to me hours later. :banghead:

[ktgrok]

I managed to make dinner last night without a degree or certificate in nutrition. Bet I can manage kindergarten just as well :)

[Pretty in Pink]

Just a question I was asked recently. How would you respond to that one?

I drew a complete blank :001_huh:.

 

I graduated with honors. Third in my class. I have a high school diploma certifying that I have mastered the material taught in my high school through grade twelve. I think that qualifies me to pass that information along to my children.

[happypamama]

Depending on my mood, and the person, I might list my own (fairly decent) credentials. I might also say that I took "math for elementary school teachers" in college and was appalled at how many of those adults could not do the basic math -- I'm pretty sure I can do better than that. :) (This year, I could also point to DD's scores on a standardized test as proof that I have at least enough skills to teach elementary school.)

 

But I think I'd prefer to say, "Actually, I have a little piece of paper from the Commonwealth of PA [or the State of MD, for the middle one] that *does* certify me to teach her." IOW, the birth certificate states that I'm the mother, and being the mother makes me the expert on *my* child.

[Retired]

Just a question I was asked recently. How would you respond to that one?

I drew a complete blank :001_huh:.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Ignorance-Failure-American-Schools/dp/0060194588

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Public-Education-Against-America-Maddoux/dp/0883688131/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305298655&sr=1-1-spell

 

 

My response is usually quotes from one of these 2 books.

[Aubrey]

I just wanted to highlight that. I learned a lot in my education courses, as well. I can understand why homeschooling parents are made to feel defensive, but it's a bit unfair to characterize teacher education as simply being about "crowd control" or "classroom management." A lot more than that is taught.

 

The issue is that much of what's learned is simply not needed in a one-on-one setting, not because you don't have to deal with "crowd control"--honestly I sometimes feel like I spend more time doing "classroom management" at home with DS and DD than I did when I was a substitute teacher!--and that's all teacher ed training is good for, but because you have the freedom to tailor everything you do to your specific child/ren, to work at their pace, and to use whatever methods of evaluation/assessment work for your family.

 

But I don't think the training that teachers receive needs to be denigrated in order to somehow justify homeschooling parents not needing that training.

 

It's funny--when I was teaching, I sure didn't feel like my degree had done much to prepare me for crowd control, either.

 

I don't think my ed program produced geniuses or anything, but I think you get out of stuff what you want to (what you put in). Since I went in planning to hs, that may have colored what I got out of it.

 

But I also did quite a bit of training for one-on-one teaching in my undergraduate degree--I knew that the writing lab was the best college job I could get, lol.

[Stacy in NJ]

I'm educated (self) but not credentialed.:001_smile:

[Aubrey]

"What makes you think you can educate your child if you're not certified?"

 

...Because the law says I can.

 

Add: "Of course, since you're not a board-certified lawyer, I wouldn't expect you to understand that...."

[Aubrey]

And being serious for just ONE scant moment, because I don't feel like being serious today, :D I have to tell you, you are probably BEST served by the one liner.

 

Why? Because at the end of the day if they truly wanted to learn about how homeschooling worked, what your day looks like, the pros of home education, and more... Well, then they would have worded it differently, kwim? The truth is they simply let whatever popped into their head pop out of their mouth. Anything I say that "engages" the debate is useless at that point.

 

I've had the opposite experience: educated, intelligent replies are more likely to win their confidence & give them a new mental picture of homeschoolers.

[Stacy in NJ]

:glare:

[mcconnellboys]

"Certificate" value varies by school. There are good teaching colleges and bad ones. They all graduate students. A student receiving a "certificate" with a barely passing average from a poor school may prove to be an absolutey incompetent teacher. We know from regular news reports that our country if full of such teachers. (I'm not bashing all teachers!)

 

A "certificate" also does not guarantee that a person who is intelligent and who may start out as a good teacher will remain a good teacher for the entirety of their teaching career.

 

Why on earth would someone think that a piece of paper conveys some sort of magical property and/or ability to be a good teacher?

 

Who cares more about making certain that any given child has every advantage possible to succeed in the world, a stranger/teacher, or a parent? Who has a vested interest in that child?

[CalicoKat]

can't hardly do any worse than certified teachers seem to be doing.

[Mrs Mungo]

The same way I can cook dinner for my family without being a chef.

[mom4him]

What makes you think that having a piece of paper makes a teacher. Look at our public schools.:tongue_smilie:

[arghmatey]

I would say, "I think you might want to research the credentials of your child's teachers and what it takes to earn them if you believe they are more qualified than you or me to teach your child. Tsk tsk."

[HS Mom in NC]

"Millions of people in America have been doing it successfully for decades now."

[Crissy]

I would never answer this question directly, but I would comment at how shockingly pervasive is this ridiculous idea that an education can only come in the form of one 'certified' teacher instructing a room full of half-attentive children, from the hours of 8am to 3pm, during the months from September to the following June.

[Impish]

"I've been told I am certifiable." *insert huge grin*

[Doodle]

"What makes you think I can't?"

 

:iagree:

I really like this one.

[Daisy]

My response is...."My husband is certified and he comes to me for advice."

 

ROFLOL. :lol:

 

That probably doesn't help you though.

[CAMom]

I ordered my certification from the Department of Vital Statistics. It clears me to parent them :D I've taught my children all sorts of things with that to back me up, like using the potty, how to do dishes, how to walk and talk. It's called a "Birth Certificate."

 

:banghead:

 

:hurray::hurray: Love this one!:)

 

I might say, "Well, my first graduate is headed to UCLA this fall. Does that prove I can do an adequate job?":)

[coffeefreak]

"OMG, did you get a certificate when your child was born, because I didn't and I've always wondered where I can get one. Could you tell me? Oh, wait, did you mean their Birth Certificate? We've got one of those, but thanks for asking and making sure!"

 

All said in an over-cute, sun-shiny voice and then I walk away.

[My3Monkeys]

True story - after sharing that we were going to homeschool the kids with his co-workers (who are all public school teachers, dh teaches HS english), one of them actually said "what makes you think you are qualified to do that?!?!" He responded that the state of Missouri says that he's qualified to teach other people's children so he figured that he's qualified to teach his own. I told him that he should have said that as a certified teacher he wasn't qualified and that was why I was doing the homeschooling. :lol:

[happypamama]

True story - after sharing that we were going to homeschool the kids with his co-workers (who are all public school teachers, dh teaches HS english), one of them actually said "what makes you think you are qualified to do that?!?!" He responded that the state of Missouri says that he's qualified to teach other people's children so he figured that he's qualified to teach his own. I told him that he should have said that as a certified teacher he wasn't qualified and that was why I was doing the homeschooling. :lol:

 

:lol: Love this!

[Aubrey]

Why on earth would someone think that a piece of paper conveys some sort of magical property and/or ability to be a good teacher?

 

I basically agree with you, but I wanted to mention--a college degree is "a piece of paper." We wouldn't hire lawyers who didn't have them; there was a thread recently in which many people stated that they wouldn't use hs curric written by someone w/out that piece of paper.

 

I don't think anybody thinks it's magical, but a teaching cert does represent a certain amount of coursework & experience.

 

The main problem w/ teaching certs, really, is the people who tend to get them. W/ some exceptions, they're not the brightest bunch. That does make the cert look bad. But...lawyers aren't the most honest bunch, & no one thinks the degree itself makes you dishonest. ;)

[TheApprentice]

This whole certification thing is totally over rated. What you used to be able to do after an apprenticeship; you now need certification. Teachers' certification is mostly based on classroom control. I've graduated from college, I think I can handle elementary and middle school, and maybe even high school.;)

[elizabeth]

The degree is basically classroom management, record keeping etc not subject matter or content unless one is a master teacher or teaching at the hgh school level. Even then 9 hours or so is enough to be certified in a subject. Go to your state's particular dept of education and look carefully. Also check out the state universities required coursework. You will be surprised at how little content there is. Management aplenty useful subject matter instruction nearly nil. REad this book and you will have information that will shame the fool who tried to to intimidate you with such an ignorant question. Link here

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Dumbing-Down-Our-Kids-Why-American-Children-Feel-Good-about-Themselves-but-Cant-Read-Write-or-Add/Charles-J-Sykes/e/9780312148232

I recently was asked the same question but my response differed as I can and have taught law school so they really looked like a dumb*ss for daring to pose such an insulting query.

[Leav97]

If 13 years of public school left me so lacking of knowledge that I can't teach 1st grade, that doesn't say much for public school.

 

or

 

Because I'm the parent.

 

or

 

Because it is working.

[Night Elf]

Just a question I was asked recently. How would you respond to that one?

I drew a complete blank :001_huh:.

 

I've taken education classes in college over a period of 20 years. Student attitudes don't change. They may receive a piece of paper saying they are certified but that doesn't mean they are truly educated. I see students cheating, doing the least amount of work possible to earn the minimal score to keep them in the education program, lose patience during student teaching, and there are also the ones who flat out admit they don't really want to teach but it seems like the easiest degree to earn and get a job making more than minimum wage. Some of them make fun of me for actually having a passion in teaching and working with children. I also get teased about my efforts at earning A's. I even told a couple of them that I feel sorry for the kids that will be in their classes. They shrugged and really didn't care.

 

Obviously not all teachers are like that. I'm certainly not. But I've seen WAY more students with bad attitudes than students like me who are super excited about our classes and learning.

[Word Nerd]

I just wanted to highlight that. I learned a lot in my education courses, as well. I can understand why homeschooling parents are made to feel defensive, but it's a bit unfair to characterize teacher education as simply being about "crowd control" or "classroom management." A lot more than that is taught.

 

The issue is that much of what's learned is simply not needed in a one-on-one setting, not because you don't have to deal with "crowd control"--honestly I sometimes feel like I spend more time doing "classroom management" at home with DS and DD than I did when I was a substitute teacher!--and that's all teacher ed training is good for, but because you have the freedom to tailor everything you do to your specific child/ren, to work at their pace, and to use whatever methods of evaluation/assessment work for your family.

 

But I don't think the training that teachers receive needs to be denigrated in order to somehow justify homeschooling parents not needing that training.

 

:iagree: At the risk of having tomatoes hurled in my direction, I would even go as far as to say the "teacher training is only about classroom management" argument is mostly a myth. It wasn't true in my experience in any case.

[twoforjoy]

:iagree: At the risk of having tomatoes hurled in my direction, I would even go as far as to say the "teacher training is only about classroom management" argument is mostly a myth. It wasn't true in my experience in any case.

 

If anything, I'd say that my ed courses were much more heavily focused on assessment and evaluation, certainly much moreso than on classroom management.

 

I don't know, I'm just bugged by the anti-teacher attitude. Public school teachers are NOT the enemy. They are doing a really hard job, and in return they get scorn. Most of them like kids, like learning, and are doing a pretty darn good job educating children. Just because it's not the right or best choice for every family--it isn't for mine--doesn't mean that public schools or public school teachers need to be turned into villains.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Just a question I was asked recently. How would you respond to that one?

I drew a complete blank :001_huh:.

 

 

Well, I do have a master's degree in education. I took all of the courses that were required for certification, but did not student teach in a classroom.

 

So I can say that there was very little in my education courses that is useful on a day to day basis with teaching my own kids.

 

Certification track coursework included a lot of discussion of classroom management, administration requirements, the process for recommending and following an IEP, how to communicate with parents, how to manage a disciplinary problem, etc. Unfortunately, there was precious little on how to foster a love of learning, how to do nature study with local flora and fauna, how to use historic places in the community to support historical studies, or how to develop and support a curiosity about the world. There was also very little about how to teach reading (since I wasn't a reading specialist, which is a specialty degree). I think there was not enough on how to teach basic number sense and mathematics.

 

Perhaps the event that solidified my desire to homeschool was one of my last courses, Teaching Composition. This was a mixed class of undergraduate and graduate students, who mostly anticipated becoming classroom teachers. I would say that a sizable portion of the class expressed that they really disliked writing (almost half). But these same adults were planning to turn around and teach young student how to write.

 

So I guess that I would have to ask the questioner what they thought the certification process conferred on the certified teacher. I will not bash all teachers. I have had some wonderful teachers and am friends with many others. But I also think they are good teachers because they love their subject and love to teach, not because they met the requirements of the certification process.

 

I also feed my family good meals, without being a certified nutritionist and cut my sons' hair, without being a licensed cosmotologist.

[heartlandsahm]

Based on my experience as a certified teacher with years of classroom experience in Texas--- the home of standardized testing, I really do believe, for the MOST part, that the teachers are just doing the absolute best they can in the given situation. I am not giving the PS system a free pass, but boy, I remember what it was like having at LEAST 45 bosses! WHEW, don't miss THOSE days!

 

I did see 1-2 teachers who were doing the students a disservice IMHO, but from what I observed it was definitely NOT the norm.

 

There are many great things I learned in my teacher training geared to bring out the best in the kids and have them learn to their potential. Sadly, in my experience, as the years wore on and testing became the focus instead of learning, much of the thrill of teaching, and learning dwindled.

 

I consider it a privilege to have the opportunity to teach my children, and I daresay that even though I might have X degrees, I STILL learn right alongside them.

 

I think that the question about being certified and HSing is more targeted at the idea that if you're not certified you don't know all there is to know and therefore are not qualified. Well, I will NEVER know it all, about anything, here on earth. For that matter, the longer I live the more I realize I do NOT know! Look at all we do without credentials? Um...it's called life and OTJ training!?

 

While it sounds arrogant to believe that only those who are certified are qualified, I believe that the comment comes more from ignorance.

 

Not to interject religion, but as my pastor says "God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called!" I love that and claim that.

 

Just an example. I serve in our church as a layperson in a role for which there is a "certification". I am not however certified, nor do I claim to be. I am basically self taught in this area. I do NOT know everything there is to know about the area in which I serve, and i make that incredibly clear, yet my service is greatly appreciated, and no one else will step up and do it. True, not many would be "qualified" to do it, but I am not truly able in as much as I am available! Since I am not certified in this area, should I not step up and serve when no one else will? Then NO ONE is helped! The more I do it, the more I learn.

 

Just my .02. I think typically when people ask questions like this, they really haven't put 1/2 as much thought into the question as we do/have.

Edited May 13, 2011 by heartlandsahm

[heartlandsahm]

BTW, FWIW, and maybe it's just a mental thing with me as this is our first year of HSing, but I believe that the very fact that I AM certified makes this whole home education harder for me.

 

It's the way I WANTED to teach, guaranteed, but never could.

 

For someone who was chosen from hundreds of first year teachers for the First Year Teacher of the Year award for a very large school district, you would never know it. I second guess myself left and right! Hoping to mature in that area and gain confidence, it's just CRAZY!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I just wanted to highlight that. I learned a lot in my education courses, as well. I can understand why homeschooling parents are made to feel defensive, but it's a bit unfair to characterize teacher education as simply being about "crowd control" or "classroom management." A lot more than that is taught.

 

The issue is that much of what's learned is simply not needed in a one-on-one setting, not because you don't have to deal with "crowd control"--honestly I sometimes feel like I spend more time doing "classroom management" at home with DS and DD than I did when I was a substitute teacher!--and that's all teacher ed training is good for, but because you have the freedom to tailor everything you do to your specific child/ren, to work at their pace, and to use whatever methods of evaluation/assessment work for your family.

 

But I don't think the training that teachers receive needs to be denigrated in order to somehow justify homeschooling parents not needing that training.

 

I don't put down my experiences in the coursework for my MS Ed because it makes me feel better as a homeschooler. But I was often disappointed in the courses I took. I would say that about a third of the courses were not even very useful for a classroom teacher, about a third were pretty useful across the board and about a third had little application to a homeschooler.

 

Almost all of my instructors were active classroom teachers or administrators. Some were incredibly curious about the subject at hand, well read and able to communicate well with a classroom.

 

But there was probably one course every semester that would leave me just shaking my head. Those instructors seemed to be marking time until retirement, were bitter or had an agenda (well beyond preparing us for the classroom). The required special education course was especially frustrating for the lack of real equipping and knowledge that it gave us.

 

My program had a comprehensive exam in place of a thesis. It took a couple hours and was not very stringent.

 

My dh was earning an MA in History at the same time. His courses required far more reading, writing and thinking. He also had to research and defend a thesis.

 

I am not saying that all MS Ed programs have the same content mine did. Nor that the instructors or graduates were bad classroom teachers. But I don't feel like I got two years worth of educational value added out of the experience.

[cdrumm4448]

:iagree: At the risk of having tomatoes hurled in my direction, I would even go as far as to say the "teacher training is only about classroom management" argument is mostly a myth. It wasn't true in my experience in any case.

 

I don't want any tomatoes over here, either, but I do have to say it may not be a myth. A homeschooling friend of mine taught for 6 years (and had earned a Master's in Education) before she began teaching her own kids at home. She's the one who told me there was very little content instruction in any of her classes.

[HSmomNY]

:iagree: At the risk of having tomatoes hurled in my direction, I would even go as far as to say the "teacher training is only about classroom management" argument is mostly a myth. It wasn't true in my experience in any case.

 

 

I am glad it was not the case for you, but when I got my MS in education it was a mix of classroom management, left wing idealogical indoctrination, and paperwork ( testing, IEP's and Regulations). Very little on how to teach reading, math etc. It was of very little use in the classroom I taught in and is of even less use now.

[EthiopianFood]

On-the-job training, just like most jobs. :glare: