How to run off a girlfriend?

[pqr]

Perhaps you and the op's son differ in your reactions because he is a 15 year old child and you are a grown man. Just throwing that out there. We can hardly expect a 15 year old girl or boy to react the same way a woman or man would.

 

As a 15 year old boy I would have reacted most unpleasantly had someone made a comment like that in front of my mother. If it was a girl that I was seeing who made the comment, it would have been the last time I ever did anything with her. It would have been a race between me and my father to see who asked her to leave first.

 

Some coments are so far beyond the Pale that I do not understand why people put up with them.

 

The OP has standards, I say stick to them. Think about giving the girl a chance, but when she behaves like that......no. Cut bait.

 

I would wish her all the best, but would not risk my son.

Edited December 25, 2010 by pqr

[Sahamamama]

I think 15 is too young to date, but I got into a situation where we didn't allow dating, but he did, anyway--it's not even "dating," exactly, in public school.

 

Just tell him that, as long as he lives under your roof, eats your food, is insured under your health care plan (I'm assuming), and legally abides under your parental guidance and responsibility, he is not allowed to date anyone. He may date seriously when he is is:

 

 

• 18 years old

• employed and/or in college

• ready and willing to do more in a relationship than just "hang out" :tongue_smilie:

 

Edited December 25, 2010 by Sahamamama

[Nakia]

As a 15 year old boy I would have reacted most unpleasantly had someone made a comment like that in front of my mother. If it was a girl that I was seeing who made the comment, it would have been the last time I ever did anything with her. It would have been a race between me and my father to see who asked her to leave first.

 

Some coments are so far beyond the Pale that I do not understand why people put up with them.

 

The OP has standards, I say stick to them. Think about giving the girl a chance, but when she behaves like that......no. Cut bait.

 

I would wish her all the best, but would not risk my son.

 

I'm very glad that you were born so mature and wise. Unfortunately not all of us were. My heart hurts for this girl who has so obviously not been taught how to behave. I'm telling I was that girl in a lot of ways. I had some people that really loved on me, and I turned out to be okay. I'm not saying she should take her into her home without limits, but a little grace goes a long way. And these kids are 15; it's not like the op has to let them spend time together unsupervised.

[pqr]

I'm very glad that you were born so mature and wise. .

 

I was not born either mature or wise, I was raised by parents who tried to instill those qualities in me. I know not if they were successful but I do try.

[Nakia]

I was not born either mature or wise, I was raised by parents who tried to instill those qualities in me. I know not if they were successful but I do try.

 

What about grace? Did they try to instill that?

[pqr]

What about grace? Did they try to instill that?

 

Absolutely, but not at the risk of my family.

 

Why should any mother expose an impressionable 15 year old boy to a negative influence? The girl is rude and the mother obviously has concerns, yet she is told to expose her son to such influences. A 15 year old boy who at that point in life is undergoing transition to manhood and you would have her do what?

 

For every time such an experiment works how often does it fail and wold you risk your son?

Edited December 25, 2010 by pqr

[Nakia]

Absolutely, but not at the risk of my family.

 

I guess we differ in how we raise our children then. I would rather teach my children to take a risk in loving someone and extending too much grace (if there is such a thing) than pushing them out of my life because they speak crudely or have a history that is less than perfect. Again, I'm not saying I would move this girl in, but if one of my daughters had a friend of either gender who came from a sketchy background and had no manners, I just cannot imagine "running them off". I hope I would keep the lines of communication open, make sure they were supervised at all times (which would happen with a 15 year old anyway), and be kind. Personally, I think to myself, "What if I am the only Christian they ever meet? What if I am the only way they will ever encounter Jesus?"

[Joanne]

:glare:

 

What does "dating" look like for these two teens?

 

My own 15 year old male child had "dated" several girls and it amounts to texts, calls, facebook. That was when he was homeschooled. He hasn't dated anyone since attending public high school.

 

From a developmental and family dynamic standpoint, I think it would be counter productive to change the rules about dating - you can't change someone's desires or attraction anyway. The drive to connect with a girl would just go underground.

 

I'd also encourage you, colloquial or not, to consider changing the framework in your mind that embraces "running off" your soon-to-be adult child's friends/girlfriends. You can appropriately put boundaries around behavior (no closed doors, she can't attend *every* family function, no swearing....) but indirect or direct attempts to change his decision about a relationship after he's made it are going to backfire and more than likely damage your relationship with him - at least temporarily.

 

Think also if it is her *behavior and character* that bother you or what you think her values and behavior *might* be.

[Sahamamama]

Absolutely, but not at the risk of my family.

 

Why should any mother expose an impressionable 15 year old boy to a negative influence? The girl is rude and the mother obviously has concerns, yet she is told to expose her son to such influences. A 15 year old boy who at that point in life is undergoing transition to manhood and you would have her do what?

 

For every time such an experiment works how often does it fail and would you risk your son?

 

:iagree:A 15 year old son is still so vulnerable. I would protect him.

 

The situation should not be about attacking, berating, condemning -- or "running off" -- the girl. [i think the OP could have chosen a better wording on that point.] BUT, the question about how to protect a 15 year old son was valid.

 

I agree with PQR. The girl's comment -- "My father is a total whore" -- is so rude, so blatantly crude that it indicates a complete lack of respect for her parent. I would ask my son, "Do you speak about us that way when you are with other people?" If he said no, then I would ask him, "Then why do you abide her talking about her father that way, when he is not here to speak for himself? Do you think it's right that she speaks about him that way?" I would also point out that if she speaks about her father that way, what does that tell your son about how she might speak about others -- including him -- in a demeaning way?

 

The idea of sowing the seeds of kindness, decency, and respect into her life is great -- if you want to be her "Big Sister." She probably really needs that type of relationship with a mature, wise, and respectful woman. But this isn't the scenario for Delaney. She's not asking, "How do I reach out to this troubled girl?" She's asking how to protect her son, her 15 year old son. He is the one in a relationship with the girl, and he's not a social worker, nor a mature and wise woman. ;) He's a boy with hormones.

 

I think a son is quite a lot to risk, and I agree with PQR that "clinging" to this girl to see if you can reshape her is an experiment. It may sound great and noble, but it's really more degrading and holier-than-thou than simply "running her off" would be -- as if Delaney is this girl's salvation. Please. Either love and accept her as she is, or tell your son you can't stand her.

 

Besides, the whole "embracing" thing could backfire on you. It might confuse your son into thinking, "I guess Mom and Dad really do like her. Wow, I don't get it, but, hey...."

 

And, it sets a precedent. It communicates to your son that (a) you are not open with him about your likes and dislikes in his girlfriend(s); and (b) you cling to, embrace, smother -- whatever you call it -- his girlfriend(s) as a way to drive them away (think about that); and © you are willing to invest enormous effort into whatever girlfriend material he brings home -- that is, you are willing to "fix" whatever problems you perceive in his girlfriend(s), and arrogant enough to think that you should and can.

[Caitilin]

I guess we differ in how we raise our children then. I would rather teach my children to take a risk in loving someone and extending too much grace (if there is such a thing) than pushing them out of my life because they speak crudely or have a history that is less than perfect. Again, I'm not saying I would move this girl in, but if one of my daughters had a friend of either gender who came from a sketchy background and had no manners, I just cannot imagine "running them off". I hope I would keep the lines of communication open, make sure they were supervised at all times (which would happen with a 15 year old anyway), and be kind. Personally, I think to myself, "What if I am the only Christian they ever meet? What if I am the only way they will ever encounter Jesus?"

 

Amen! Nakia, you are so classy! Thanks for saying this.:grouphug:

[Nakia]

I am obviously not being clear. I never said Delaney should take on this girl as an "experiment". People are not experiments. I simply suggested she show some love and grace while this young girl is in their life. I never said the girl isn't rude, crude, and totally lacking in the manner department. I don't blame Delaney for being worried about the relationship. I do believe that there is a way for Delaney to keep the lines of communication open with her son and still show kindness to the girl. It is not a black and white issue.

[elegantlion]

I guess we differ in how we raise our children then. I would rather teach my children to take a risk in loving someone and extending too much grace (if there is such a thing) than pushing them out of my life because they speak crudely or have a history that is less than perfect. Again, I'm not saying I would move this girl in, but if one of my daughters had a friend of either gender who came from a sketchy background and had no manners, I just cannot imagine "running them off". I hope I would keep the lines of communication open, make sure they were supervised at all times (which would happen with a 15 year old anyway), and be kind. Personally, I think to myself, "What if I am the only Christian they ever meet? What if I am the only way they will ever encounter Jesus?"

 

 

:iagree:This is one of the reasons you are beautiful.

I am obviously not being clear. I never said Delaney should take on this girl as an "experiment". People are not experiments. I simply suggested she show some love and grace while this young girl is in their life. I never said the girl isn't rude, crude, and totally lacking in the manner department. I don't blame Delaney for being worried about the relationship. I do believe that there is a way for Delaney to keep the lines of communication open with her son and still show kindness to the girl. It is not a black and white issue.

 

 

:iagree:

[dancer67]

I am obviously not being clear. I never said Delaney should take on this girl as an "experiment". People are not experiments. I simply suggested she show some love and grace while this young girl is in their life. I never said the girl isn't rude, crude, and totally lacking in the manner department. I don't blame Delaney for being worried about the relationship. I do believe that there is a way for Delaney to keep the lines of communication open with her son and still show kindness to the girl. It is not a black and white issue.

:iagree::iagree:

[JennyD]

He latest and greatest statement was, "Oh my dad is a total whore and has been married 4 times.":001_huh:

 

This actually strikes me as an awkward, crude way of her saying, "I know that you don't approve of my dad being married so many times and I don't either."

Edited December 25, 2010 by JennyD

[2squared]

This actually strikes me as an awkward, crude way of her saying, "I know that you don't approve of my dad being married so many times and I don't either."

 

:iagree: I'm not sure how a 15yo would gracefully discuss her father's four marriages to her boyfriend's mother, especially if she's received disapproving vibes already?

 

My dad has been married 4 times, and I say the same thing about him in a more adult fashion. If the shoe fits...

 

Even my 8yo knows it already. As she told me yesterday, "Grandpa has a small mind for his grandkids and a big mind for getting married." That's an 8yo version rather than the 15yo or 30+yo version.

[sarawatsonim]

This actually strikes me as an awkward, crude way of her saying, "I know that you don't approve of my dad being married so many times and I don't either."

 

:iagree:

Teenagers will sometimes use big, tough words to mask the fact that they are feeling embarrassed or hurt.

[pqr]

:iagree:

Teenagers will sometimes use big, tough words to mask the fact that they are feeling embarrassed or hurt.

 

 

And sometimes because they are simply rude.

 

Speaking disrespectfully of one's Father to another adult, using a word like "whore" and one is supposed to assume what?

 

Stop looking for the silver lining, the child is rude and obviously poorly brought up. I may feel sorry for her but that changes nothing.

[Margaret in GA]

I'm not an expert, but I'll give you some advice from someone that's btdt. You probably can't "run her off" without pushing her into your son's arms, but I'm not totally sure. You know that better than anyone here. He really may be looking for a reason to get rid of her. I have a theory about predator girls (not saying she is one). They go after the weak, cute, quiet boys for a reason. Their self esteem is low and these boys are easy targets. We had one go after my 14 yo this year. I was lucky since he told her to go away himself. But if your girl is here to stay, this is my advice:

 

1.take their phone up before bed every night or better yet, limit their texting all together. If your mom radar goes off, check his messages

2.turn off the internet at bed every night

3.make sure your ds can't sneak out

4.only supervised, public "dates" and even then --

5.make sure your ds has access to condoms

6.breathe deeply and love unconditionally, this too shall pass

 

hugs to you!

Margaret

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree:A 15 year old son is still so vulnerable. I would protect him.

 

The situation should not be about attacking, berating, condemning -- or "running off" -- the girl. [i think the OP could have chosen a better wording on that point.] BUT, the question about how to protect a 15 year old son was valid.

 

I agree with PQR. The girl's comment -- "My father is a total whore" -- is so rude, so blatantly crude that it indicates a complete lack of respect for her parent. I would ask my son, "Do you speak about us that way when you are with other people?" If he said no, then I would ask him, "Then why do you abide her talking about her father that way, when he is not here to speak for himself? Do you think it's right that she speaks about him that way?" I would also point out that if she speaks about her father that way, what does that tell your son about how she might speak about others -- including him -- in a demeaning way?

 

The idea of sowing the seeds of kindness, decency, and respect into her life is great -- if you want to be her "Big Sister." She probably really needs that type of relationship with a mature, wise, and respectful woman. But this isn't the scenario for Delaney. She's not asking, "How do I reach out to this troubled girl?" She's asking how to protect her son, her 15 year old son. He is the one in a relationship with the girl, and he's not a social worker, nor a mature and wise woman. ;) He's a boy with hormones.

 

I think a son is quite a lot to risk, and I agree with PQR that "clinging" to this girl to see if you can reshape her is an experiment. It may sound great and noble, but it's really more degrading and holier-than-thou than simply "running her off" would be -- as if Delaney is this girl's salvation. Please. Either love and accept her as she is, or tell your son you can't stand her.

 

Besides, the whole "embracing" thing could backfire on you. It might confuse your son into thinking, "I guess Mom and Dad really do like her. Wow, I don't get it, but, hey...."

 

And, it sets a precedent. It communicates to your son that (a) you are not open with him about your likes and dislikes in his girlfriend(s); and (b) you cling to, embrace, smother -- whatever you call it -- his girlfriend(s) as a way to drive them away (think about that); and © you are willing to invest enormous effort into whatever girlfriend material he brings home -- that is, you are willing to "fix" whatever problems you perceive in his girlfriend(s), and arrogant enough to think that you should and can.

Wow. ITA:iagree::grouphug: Not really the same situation at all, but I thought I would share: I was a second mom to a young girl. She chose to reject outright our Christian values. I saw her going down that path and kept her under my wing for months, losing sleep to talk with her and study the Bible with her. I let her know that if she followed this path, she would no longer be a part of our family. DH spent a lot of time with her playing games, driving alone, trying to replace her deadbeat dad. She decided to do what she wanted. My contact with her is now very limited. My children living at home need to be protected from her bad influence.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Joanne]

Speaking disrespectfully of one's Father to another adult, using a word like "whore" and one is supposed to assume what?

 

Stop looking for the silver lining, the child is rude and obviously poorly brought up. I may feel sorry for her but that changes nothing.

 

Assume? Nothing, really, except that the teen uses mildly shocking language and may have an understanding that her Dad's sexual/relationship behavior is not ideal.

 

Stop looking for the silver lining? Wow. I don't remember reading that priciple in the Bible.

[Jeanne in MN]

Nakia, I so appreciate you POV on this. I've worked with troubled teens over the years and know how much poor behavior is a cover up for hurts, anger, etc. I like to give people a chance or at the very least, treat them with respect and grace even if it's not returned.

 

 

I guess we differ in how we raise our children then. I would rather teach my children to take a risk in loving someone and extending too much grace (if there is such a thing) than pushing them out of my life because they speak crudely or have a history that is less than perfect. Again, I'm not saying I would move this girl in, but if one of my daughters had a friend of either gender who came from a sketchy background and had no manners, I just cannot imagine "running them off". I hope I would keep the lines of communication open, make sure they were supervised at all times (which would happen with a 15 year old anyway), and be kind. Personally, I think to myself, "What if I am the only Christian they ever meet? What if I am the only way they will ever encounter Jesus?"

[pqr]

Assume? Nothing, really, except that the teen uses mildly shocking language and may have an understanding that her Dad's sexual/relationship behavior is not ideal.

 

Stop looking for the silver lining? Wow. I don't remember reading that priciple in the Bible.

 

 

Mea Culpa, there is no assumption. The child IS rude, IS poorly brought up and would have no place in my house.

 

Calling one's Father a "whore" is mildly shocking?..... Seriously you only find that mildly shocking?

 

I did not realise that this was now a religious discussion.

[Mommyfaithe]

Biblical or not Biblical, it is a parents responsibility to protect and raise their child...including keeping their "choices" above board. I have total and complete veto power over who my kids hang out with or spend time with. PERIOD! There is no discussion, and while that may sound harsh...it is what it is. When they are older and mature, their choices are their choices, and their consequences are thier consequences. I do not allow my kids to spend time with trashy kids. SORRY. I just don't see anyone being pulled up, just dragged down, and I am not willing to take that chance with my children.

 

Birds of a feather flock together.

 

If I am ok'ing a child's behavior...my kids may think it is ok for them to behave the same way...it is not.

 

I think freedoms come as responsibility and maturity come.

 

I am sorry, if my 15 y/o son came home with a trashy girl, that would be the end of that friendship.

 

If my 21 year old independent child came home with someone I thought was bad for them, I would speak my piece gently, and then shut my mouth, pray and hope things turned out well. I would also be there for my kid if things went bad, or I would apologize if I was wrong.

 

My responsiblility is first and foremost to MY child. I can have compassion and thoughtfulness for other peoples kids, but mine come first.

 

Delaney...tell the girl to go home...send your kid to his room...and don't worry about it. You don't have to save the world...just take care of your kid.

 

Faithe (who knows this is not the popular or politically correct view...but I have never been of the popular or pc sort)

[MamaT]

Biblical or not Biblical, it is a parents responsibility to protect and raise their child...including keeping their "choices" above board. I have total and complete veto power over who my kids hang out with or spend time with. PERIOD! There is no discussion, and while that may sound harsh...it is what it is. When they are older and mature, their choices are their choices, and their consequences are thier consequences. I do not allow my kids to spend time with trashy kids. SORRY. I just don't see anyone being pulled up, just dragged down, and I am not willing to take that chance with my children.

 

Birds of a feather flock together.

 

If I am ok'ing a child's behavior...my kids may think it is ok for them to behave the same way...it is not.

 

I think freedoms come as responsibility and maturity come.

 

I am sorry, if my 15 y/o son came home with a trashy girl, that would be the end of that friendship.

 

If my 21 year old independent child came home with someone I thought was bad for them, I would speak my piece gently, and then shut my mouth, pray and hope things turned out well. I would also be there for my kid if things went bad, or I would apologize if I was wrong.

 

My responsiblility is first and foremost to MY child. I can have compassion and thoughtfulness for other peoples kids, but mine come first.

 

Delaney...tell the girl to go home...send your kid to his room...and don't worry about it. You don't have to save the world...just take care of your kid.

 

Faithe (who knows this is not the popular or politically correct view...but I have never been of the popular or pc sort)

 

:iagree: Yep, this.

[Nakia]

And sometimes because they are simply rude.

 

Speaking disrespectfully of one's Father to another adult, using a word like "whore" and one is supposed to assume what?

 

Stop looking for the silver lining, the child is rude and obviously poorly brought up. I may feel sorry for her but that changes nothing.

 

You have no right to tell any of us what to do. I refuse to stop giving this girl the benefit of the doubt just because she is "rude and obviously brought up poorly." It doesn't give anyone the right to toss her aside like she is nothing but trash. No one said Delaney has to take her to raise, but WHILE SHE IS IN HER LIFE, she can show a little, or a lot of grace. That's all I'm suggesting. It could quite possible make a huge difference in her life. It's not about saving the world. She doesn't have to approve of the girl's behavior, and of course she needs to put her own child first. If she thinks her son is in danger, that would be a whole different story. But he is only in danger if she continues to allow them to spend unsupervised time together.

 

Why not gently say, "Listen, we don't speak that way in our house, and I would appreciate it if you don't either." And I'm sure she doesn't need one more person who "feels sorry for her". She needs love, compassion, and understanding. And most importantly, she needs some guidance about what is right and wrong.

 

Why does it have to be black and white? There are so many gray areas in life.

[Mommyfaithe]

You have no right to tell any of us what to do. I refuse to stop giving this girl the benefit of the doubt just because she is "rude and obviously brought up poorly." It doesn't give anyone the right to toss her aside like she is nothing but trash. No one said Delaney has to take her to raise, but WHILE SHE IS IN HER LIFE, she can show a little, or a lot of grace. That's all I'm suggesting. It could quite possible make a huge difference in her life. It's not about saving the world. She doesn't have to approve of the girl's behavior, and of course she needs to put her own child first. If she thinks her son is in danger, that would be a whole different story. But he is only in danger if she continues to allow them to spend unsupervised time together.

 

Why not gently say, "Listen, we don't speak that way in our house, and I would appreciate it if you don't either." And I'm sure she doesn't need one more person who "feels sorry for her". She needs love, compassion, and understanding. And most importantly, she needs some guidance about what is right and wrong.

 

Why does it have to be black and white? There are so many gray areas in life.

 

Nakia, I get your point...but....

 

while I also believe this girl needs love, compassion and plenty of grace, I would not do that at the expense of my own child. Sorry. I just wouldn't. She needs all those things, but my responsibility is to my kid first and foremost. It would not be "putting out the trash." It would be protecting my child from an unseemly influence. that is MY job.

 

Now, if I felt the kid was just a little rough around the edges, that would be a completely different story. if she had an underlying sweetness...well then, I would be there to help draw that out. BUT, it sounds like Delaney does not LIKE this kid...and her gut is telling her this girl is NOT healthy for HER family. If that is the case, the girl has to go. If not, then that is for Mom (or Dad) to decide.

 

Faithe

[susankenny]

I haven't read through all of the replies. The turning point in my own life (for the extreme worse) was my first relationship at age 15. It was a rolling stone in my life until the age of 23. So for my children, I will do my best to discourage relationships that are as you described. My children and I have very open discussions, so I pray it would take form in a conversation and could be sorted out by listening respectfully to one another's POV. In the end if I really disapproved of someone in their life though, I believe my husband & I would be clear with that choice. Parenting is tough. Pray. Listen. Respond in love.

 

 

Susan

[pqr]

You have no right to tell any of us what to do.

.

 

And just how am I "telling anyone what to do." I am offering opinions just as you are.

 

Again: Why should any mother expose an impressionable 15 year old boy to a negative influence? The girl is rude and the mother obviously has concerns, yet she is told to expose her son to such influences. A 15 year old boy who at that point in life is undergoing transition to manhood and you would have her do what?

 

For every time such an experiment works how often does it fail and would you risk your son?

[kalanamak]

If not, then that is for Mom (or Dad) to decide.

 

Faithe

 

The rub is that this is not going to be so for much longer, and HOW the OP gets rid of her may have just as much influence as the girl herself. What safer place than while still living at home to figure out when someone needs to be avoided and how to do it. :) A methed-out shoplifter is one thing, but someone merely loud and opinionated and immature might best be found by the boy himself to NOT be the fascinating creature she seemed at first, but someone rather predictable, who grows tedious.

 

She may the first girl he's met Whom He Really Shouldn't Marry, but I'm betting she won't be the last. The WHRSM types abound.

[mirth]

The rub is that this is not going to be so for much longer, and HOW the OP gets rid of her may have just as much influence as the girl herself. What safer place than while still living at home to figure out when someone needs to be avoided and how to do it. :) A methed-out shoplifter is one thing, but someone merely loud and opinionated and immature might best be found by the boy himself to NOT be the fascinating creature she seemed at first, but someone rather predictable, who grows tedious.

 

She may the first girl he's met Whom He Really Shouldn't Marry, but I'm betting she won't be the last. The WHRSM types abound.

 

I just love reading kalanamak.

[Alicia64]

You know, I really have to sincerely apologize -- for some reason I had read that your son was over 18. I am so, so sorry for suggesting you embrace the girl.

 

I would not embrace a girl when my own child was only 15. My first and foremost responsibility is to him and poor influence at 15 is a huge deal.

 

Again, I apologize profusely.

 

Note to self: read OP's posts carefully and re-read a second time before replying.

 

Alley

[Nakia]

Nakia, I get your point...but....

 

while I also believe this girl needs love, compassion and plenty of grace, I would not do that at the expense of my own child. Sorry. I just wouldn't. She needs all those things, but my responsibility is to my kid first and foremost. It would not be "putting out the trash." It would be protecting my child from an unseemly influence. that is MY job.

 

Now, if I felt the kid was just a little rough around the edges, that would be a completely different story. if she had an underlying sweetness...well then, I would be there to help draw that out. BUT, it sounds like Delaney does not LIKE this kid...and her gut is telling her this girl is NOT healthy for HER family. If that is the case, the girl has to go. If not, then that is for Mom (or Dad) to decide.

 

Faithe

 

Yes, it is for Delaney to decide, and I said that in another post. I'm not telling anyone how to raise their own children. I'm just trying, like others, to point out another side. I thank God that people took the time to get to know me when I was a foul-mouthed rude and crude teen.

[Nakia]

And sometimes because they are simply rude.

 

Speaking disrespectfully of one's Father to another adult, using a word like "whore" and one is supposed to assume what?

 

Stop looking for the silver lining, the child is rude and obviously poorly brought up. I may feel sorry for her but that changes nothing.

 

And just how am I "telling anyone what to do." I am offering opinions just as you are.

 

Again: Why should any mother expose an impressionable 15 year old boy to a negative influence? The girl is rude and the mother obviously has concerns, yet she is told to expose her son to such influences. A 15 year old boy who at that point in life is undergoing transition to manhood and you would have her do what?

 

For every time such an experiment works how often does it fail and would you risk your son?

 

Have you had me on ignore? That's the only explanation I can come up with because you obviously have not read my other posts in this thread. I have never suggested that Delaney risk her own child. If you have read anything I've ever posted on this board, you know I would fight the devil to protect my children.

 

I am done with this thread. I appreciate all the support and private messages that have been sent to me because this thread truly does hit close to home for me. I am going to enjoy Christmas with my family and pray this no-good, rotten, trashy child somewhere, somehow has some love shown to her.

[susankenny]

I thank God that people took the time to get to know me when I was a foul-mouthed rude and crude teen.

 

Nakia,

 

I was a foul-mouthed rude & crude teen as well. Honestly, I was a big pain in the a$$ though. I created a lot of drama & dragged everyone I knew into my bull$hit.

 

Yes, I outgrew it all. Yes, I'm a well-balanced 40 year old. But I wouldn't have wanted my son to date someone like me...not as a teen anyway.

 

 

Susan

[pqr]

Have you had me on ignore? That's the only explanation I can come up with because you obviously have not read my other posts in this thread. I have never suggested that Delaney risk her own child. If you have read anything I've ever posted on this board, you know I would fight the devil to protect my children.

 

I am done with this thread. I appreciate all the support and private messages that have been sent to me because this thread truly does hit close to home for me. I am going to enjoy Christmas with my family and pray this no-good, rotten, trashy child somewhere, somehow has some love shown to her.

 

 

Merry Christmas and I mean that sincerely.

 

It is time to get back to family, but I will leave you with this. Our debate seems to be on the level of exposure. I would have none of her as she is rude poorlly raised and hence a risk to any 15 year old boy. Why risk it? Yes I have read every one of your posts, you would allow contact, I would not. You would let her visit your home, I would not. Therein lies the difference.

 

How many nice boys turn into nightmares because of contact with girls like the one being described? Would you risk your son?

[simka2]

I'm seeing both sides to the debate that has developed. I like many have come from less then perfect home situations...and I am sure more than one mom thought I not the best influence.

 

I do believe that a parent has the duty and obligation to protect her child. That said, she also has the obligation to demonstrate good life management skills. At 15 there is only so much time left with this young man.

 

He's going to come across rude people. He's going to work with them. He can't just cut them out of his world, but he can influence. First though he will need someone to show him how to influence. How to take a stand, in love and strength, on what is important.

 

That said...if it were my house, I would see this girl as both someone to love on and someone I can use to teach my son how to deal with imperfect people.

 

When something rude is said it is perfectly acceptable to say, "Sweetie, I am sure that that sort of language is acceptable in your home, but it isn't here. Please refrain from it."

 

Or, "Really? My son is embarressed by his eagle scout uniform? He worked long and hard on that..he has NO reason to be embarressed. Could it be that you are unaware of the investment he made to attain this? "

 

The point is talk...take the time. Then he gets to see his mom taking the time to invest in someone's life.

 

People matter...strangers matter...life is short.

 

The OP is in the beautiful position of being able to protect her son AND invest in someone who may need her. It's not a one or the other...yet.

 

Now, if she were a drug addict and putting the family in the way of physical harm...that is a different matter entirely.

[kalanamak]

<blush>

 

Since I work with the court-committed mentally ill, almost weekly I get to know a new family of an 18-21 year old. The legal stakes go up when majority is reached. Tensions run high. Parenting such sick people is super-parenting, crisis-parenting, parenting magnified 1000x.

 

Watching these parents struggle to cope with their children has been very educational. They range all over the map: from grossly inappropriate indulgence ("oh, he hit the nurse again....I'll bring him fried chicken, that's the only thing he likes") --to rage and hatred of the patient, the social worker, the state, everyone --to amazing parents who selflessly do what will actually help their child, even if it is painful. Good parenting takes reflection and self-control, more so in teens than anyone else. The more out of control the situation with the teen, the more self-control needed....needed so you neither run away/bury head in sand nor pull out a cudgel.

 

It seems so simple to type out...

[elizabeth]

<blush>

 

Since I work with the court-committed mentally ill, almost weekly I get to know a new family of an 18-21 year old. The legal stakes go up when majority is reached. Tensions run high. Parenting such sick people is super-parenting, crisis-parenting, parenting magnified 1000x.

 

Watching these parents struggle to cope with their children has been very educational. They range all over the map: from grossly inappropriate indulgence ("oh, he hit the nurse again....I'll bring him fried chicken, that's the only thing he likes") --to rage and hatred of the patient, the social worker, the state, everyone --to amazing parents who selflessly do what will actually help their child, even if it is painful. Good parenting takes reflection and self-control, more so in teens than anyone else. The more out of control the situation with the teen, the more self-control needed....needed so you neither run away/bury head in sand nor pull out a cudgel.

 

It seems so simple to type out...

I need to keep a collection of your posts . You should write a book as the insights I have culled from reading your words are so helpful especially with the many difficult situations encountered in the practice of law. Truly I would buy it in a heartbeat with copies for clients, CASA volunteers, and a few judges....

[Nestof3]

 

Why not gently say, "Listen, we don't speak that way in our house, and I would appreciate it if you don't either." And I'm sure she doesn't need one more person who "feels sorry for her". She needs love, compassion, and understanding. And most importantly, she needs some guidance about what is right and wrong.

 

Why does it have to be black and white? There are so many gray areas in life.

 

1. Because she will most likely still talk that way around him.

 

2. Yes, we are to show compassion and love to people. Who our children choose to spend their intimate time and affection on is another matter. I can choose to come along side a woman who is doing drugs and sleeping around. It's another matter when my son wants to date her.

 

Don't you see the difference?

 

Again, it all goes back to why this boy likes this girl. Has the OP ever answered this? What admirable qualities has he found. For what it's worth, I see no benefit in dating at 15. And, yes, for many, it goes beyond casual chatting and texting. I think it's pretty naive to think it cannot.

[simka2]

1. Because she will most likely still talk that way around him.

 

2. Yes, we are to show compassion and love to people. Who our children choose to spend their intimate time and affection on is another matter. I can choose to come along side a woman who is doing drugs and sleeping around. It's another matter when my son wants to date her.

 

Don't you see the difference?

 

Again, it all goes back to why this boy likes this girl. Has the OP ever answered this? What admirable qualities has he found. For what it's worth, I see no benefit in dating at 15. And, yes, for many, it goes beyond casual chatting and texting. I think it's pretty naive to think it cannot.

 

I don't think Nakia is suggesting this mom allow her son isolated exposure to someone who is potentially dangerous.

 

Her point...as I took it...is that she can still be there for this girl, and be protective of her son. They are not mutually exclusive. But it does take a lot more strength and presence than many of us want to give.

[delaney]

You know, I really have to sincerely apologize -- for some reason I had read that your son was over 18. I am so, so sorry for suggesting you embrace the girl.

 

I would not embrace a girl when my own child was only 15. My first and foremost responsibility is to him and poor influence at 15 is a huge deal.

 

Again, I apologize profusely.

 

Note to self: read OP's posts carefully and re-read a second time before replying.

 

Alley

Oh please don't apologize. It has been amazing to see the candor and thoughts that this board has on the subject. I think I am mostly tickled that I started a thread 15 pages long!:tongue_smilie:

[Rosie_0801]

For every time such an experiment works how often does it fail and would you risk your son?

 

For the situation described, I would for a short time, yes. I would lay out our expectations and consequences to my son, his girlfriend and my younger child. I would give them all the opportunity to play this nicely. I would give a second chance and a very clear warning that second chances don't come frequently. I think kids deserve to be told the rules and have a real chance to meet them. On the whole, I play conservative, but I think we can risk a little for the chance of a worthwhile gain. But I am The Mum ;) and that means I can stop the game if I (enough of us) won't win.

 

Rosie- who's life experience isn't based purely on three and a half years of parenting experience, in case anyone was wondering.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Joanne]

For the situation described, I would for a short time, yes. I would lay out our expectations and consequences to my son, his girlfriend and my younger child. I would give them all the opportunity to play this nicely. I would give a second chance and a very clear warning that second chances don't come frequently. I think kids deserve to be told the rules and have a real chance to meet them. On the whole, I play conservative, but I think we can risk a little for the chance of a worthwhile gain. But I am The Mum ;) and that means I can stop the game if I (enough of us) won't win.

 

Rosie

 

At 15 (and I've got a son that age), I'd limit "dating" situations anyway. The amount of time together would be limited and what time they did spend together would be supervised.

 

I'm not advocating allowing 15 year olds total autonomy. I'm advocating age and developmentally appropriate autonomy and also advocating *not* reacting in ways that tend to entrench teens or make assumptions about other teens. I'd rather help my teen, alongside them, with kids whose thinking is different than avoid those kids. At 15, he'll soon be around people and situations I have no control over (he'll be driving, working, etc). He needs tools, support and information and experience - all allowed with the steady and loving influence of a parent in whom he still trusts and shares.

 

Nakia, althogh she's done with this thread, is right. The 15 year old's interest in this girl can not be exised. Love and grace can be offered *while* boundaries and reasonable expectations can be enforced.

[Rosie_0801]

At 15 (and I've got a son that age), I'd limit "dating" situations anyway. The amount of time together would be limited and what time they did spend together would be supervised.

 

Both dh and I were late starters. We're hoping it's genetic ;)

 

Rosie- very big on supervision and thinking it's a shame chaperoning by middle aged maiden aunts is out of fashion. :D

[PineFarmMom]

1. Because she will most likely still talk that way around him.

 

2. Yes, we are to show compassion and love to people. Who our children choose to spend their intimate time and affection on is another matter. I can choose to come along side a woman who is doing drugs and sleeping around. It's another matter when my son wants to date her.

 

Don't you see the difference?

 

Again, it all goes back to why this boy likes this girl. Has the OP ever answered this? What admirable qualities has he found. For what it's worth, I see no benefit in dating at 15. And, yes, for many, it goes beyond casual chatting and texting. I think it's pretty naive to think it cannot.

 

:iagree: This!!! Helping someone/loving them through their messes, etc. is one thing...sacrificing my child while doing so is completely different!! I don't think we're called to do that.

 

A df of mine has a teen dd who has made some horrid choices lately. I'd go have coffee with her and talk with her, encourage her, try to guide her into truth, etc., but I would NEVER allow any of my dc to spend time with her on their own, have a friendship or dating relationship with her. "Love always protects..."

Edited December 25, 2010 by Texas T

[Haiku]

Speaking disrespectfully of one's Father to another adult, using a word like "whore" and one is supposed to assume what?

 

Stop looking for the silver lining, the child is rude and obviously poorly brought up.

 

Yep, and she was poorly brought up by the very person she is speaking disrespectfully about. If he has been a poor parent and behaves like a fickle toddler, need she respect him? I don't come from the "adults are respected for being adults" school of thought. If an adult wants respect, be a respectable person.

 

If a child said something like what this girl said to me about her dad being a whore, I would probably respond something along the lines of, "Wow, it sounds like you are really embarrassed/hurt by your dad's multiple marriages." Only if we had a reasonably close relationship would I take up her choice of language with her; I would first want to lend her an understanding ear.

 

Tara

[pqr]

Yep, and she was poorly brought up by the very person she is speaking disrespectfully about. If he has been a poor parent and behaves like a fickle toddler, need she respect him? I don't come from the "adults are respected for being adults" school of thought. If an adult wants respect, be a respectable person.

If a child said something like what this girl said to me about her dad being a whore, I would probably respond something along the lines of, "Wow, it sounds like you are really embarrassed/hurt by your dad's multiple marriages." Only if we had a reasonably close relationship would I take up her choice of language with her; I would first want to lend her an understanding ear.

 

 

 

But why would you want someone who, you agree, was "poorly brought up" around your son? Why wopuld you risk her rubbing off on him? Why would you want him associating with a girl who, you agree, was "poorly brought up"?

 

We look at the world differently, inside my house, I will take up with anyone on their choice of language.

 

People have spoken of grace, kindness etc and I get it BUT what possible benefit can it have to one's son to associate with such a girl? I am all for helping her but not at the risk of my son.

[Laura Corin]

Birds of a feather flock together.

 

If I am ok'ing a child's behavior...my kids may think it is ok for them to behave the same way...it is not.

 

 

If my children had friends (in fact this has happened before) who behaved inappropriately, it would be a great chance to discuss our values and expectations. Coming up against inappropriate behaviours while a child still lives at home offers an amazing opportunity for strengthening the child's resolve - I won't be around to do that when they are eighteen and away from home.

 

As for 'running off' - I've told this story before. My sister had a very unsuitable boyfriend (fourteen years her senior; no job, no prospects, lots of marijuana smoking) when she was sixteen. My father imposed boundaries but bit his tongue. Sister gained a place at Oxford, went away to university, then came back at Christmas to dump the guy. She had met a 'suitable' man at university, has been with him for ten years now and they are marrying next year. My father remained convinced that if he had 'run off' the first boyfriend, my sister would have gone too.

 

Laura

Edited December 25, 2010 by Laura Corin

[Haiku]

But why would you want someone who, you agree, was "poorly brought up" around your son? Why wopuld you risk her rubbing off on him? Why would you want him associating with a girl who, you agree, was "poorly brought up"?

 

When I was young, my teenaged sister had a friend whose parents were not good parents. She was a girl who made poor choices. My parents allowed the girl to come to our house, where she could visit my sister supervised, but they did not allow my sister to visit that girl's house or go out alone with her.

 

My dd16 has a friend down the street whose mother beat her and threw her away. She lives with her grandparents, who don't supervise her adequately. She is, however, very nice to my dd16 and my younger kids and, although her language can be coarse, she is as polite as she knows how to be to dh and me. We have the same deal: dd16 can have the girl over when we are home to supervise, and that's it.

 

If my ds7 were 15 and liked a girl who was not the best-behaved or politest girl around, I would do the same thing.

 

Why? Why would I possibly risk my kids in that way?

 

Because I believe that it really isn't that risky. I believe that if my kids have a stable home and responsible parents, having a few friends who haven't had what my kids have won't ruin my kids. They aren't that fragile. Because I believe that it is the right thing to do to offer a child in need a stable, loving home to find refuge in. Because I believe that my kids will learn valuable life lessons from seeing me embrace people whom others would shun (I learned that from parents, certainly). Because I think it would be an excellent opportunity to discuss our values with our kids in an immediately relevant situation. Because I don't believe in giving up hope on kids. And because if everyone shuns this child because she has been poorly brought up, how can we expect her to be different as an adult? Do we want her kids to be the next generation of poorly brought up kids?

 

I adopted two kids who were raised in orphanages. They certainly weren't "well brought up" before coming to us. The things my dd16 has done and said to us and others would curl your hair. I can only thank my lucky stars that the people around us extended my kids more grace than a lot of what I am seeing in this thread. Well, except for the few who didn't.

 

That's why.

[Crimson Wife]

Now, if she were a drug addict and putting the family in the way of physical harm...that is a different matter entirely.

 

The family may not necessarily know that she's a drug addict until it's too late. Addicts don't exactly walk around with neon signs announcing their drug use. I wasn't at all surprised when the truth came out about my brother's ex-gf given what had happened to her father, but I hadn't known she was on meth until after it all blew up in my brother's face. My brother naively thought he could "rescue her"- he's lucky that he got out of it with nothing more than a broken heart.