How to run off a girlfriend?

[Mommyfaithe]

My sister is very, very stubborn however. My father acted with understanding of her character.

 

Laura

 

That is good then. And I agree with Asta. This post is not about the "poor girl." So much has been said....not about the OP...but assumptions that are kinda out there. We don't know anything except the OP doesn't like this kid....

 

I think that letting a kid date before they are old enough to make reasonable choices, or that kid is no longer a kid....was a mistake. the thing is, once a kid has that leeway, it is really hard to take it away. Mulling this all over, I am sorry I got into the discussion at all.

 

The only point I wanted to get out was I always think of what is best for my child first and foremost. I don't ask other kids for a resume' when they become my kids' friends, but my radar is always on. My radar is silent and I am very, very good at being a fly on the wall. :001_smile:

 

It really sounds to me like Delaney's son is not ready for romantic relationships and they have lots and lots and lots of talking to do. When I say I would step in and end this relationship, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER be rude and nasty to this child. I would be harder on my own kid. It sounds like she doesn't know any better, but HE should. Not being harsh on Mom either. These kids grow up so fast and furious it is sometimes really hard to know what to do in each situation and with each child.

 

My decisions with my kids were not always the same. Some of my kids matured earlier and could handle more responsibilities earlier. Some needed extra guidance. Some didn't ask and just did what they felt like until they were asked what they were up to....:tongue_smilie:

 

No one was dating at 15. Not one of my kids thought that would be a wise decision. I asked my 16 y/o if he thought he might date one of the girls on his swim team and he said no....there is just too much drama involved and it is not worth it as he is not ready. OK...a 15 year old in a serious or even not so serious dating situation is definitely an invitation to drama...even sometimes with the nicest kids on both sides.

 

If this girl is just pissy, that is one thing and it will wear on him too. If she is all mouth, but still a basically good kid, then it is just a personality conflict and that will happen with kids friends. If she is influencing change in a bad manner...grades, drugs, sex, deception, whatever, then the big guns have to come out and not necessarily pointed at the girl OR the son, but pointed at behoviors with consequences for those behaviors. I am not saying this is how anything is, I am just saying in my experience, this is how I would handle the situation. It sounds like the OP's son is learning how to make his own decisions and that is OK in a supervised setting. Mom already allowed the dating to happen, the next choice the son makes could be much, much worse. Keep your eye on behaviors and focus on those...not on the girl. If something is unacceptable in your family, then make it clear to BOTH of them.

 

Good Luck,

I am sure you never expected a thread this long ....

 

Faithe

Edited December 26, 2010 by Mommyfaithe
clarity

[susankenny]

Ok now, see, this just cracks me up.

 

Everyone is going on and on about how this girl is such a tart and how poorly she has been brought up, yadda yadda yadda --

 

And yet the OP just thinks the parents are fabulous!

 

Folks - this isn't about the girl's homelife! This isn't about how she was brought up. This is about. the. GIRL.

 

A CHILD.

 

Mamma. doesn't. like. her. son's. girlfriend. Period.

 

Everyone can sugarcoat it anyway they want: "protect the child" "keep from dangerous influences" "blah blah blah".

 

This is an adult woman threatened by the presence of a child. How about someone here asking WHY an adult woman is threatened by a child instead of just taking decisive action? What is going on in the dynamic here that an adult woman is allowing herself to be threatened by the presence of a CHILD?

 

If dear son is too young and immature to be making sound decisions about "the character" of people who he dates, why is the mother allowing him to date? Did she think she would have veto power? Is she regretting letting the barn door open? Is she having "my baby is growing up and now what do I do with my life" fears?

 

Why are there twenty pages about the girl? This isn't about the girl! This is about the OP!

 

 

asta

 

Well, or maybe your wrong & the original poster actually has an accurate instinct about the girl dating her son.

 

Susan

[Mommyfaithe]

I couldn't have said it better myself. I think this thread has gotten so out of control with everyone reading into it what just isn't there. It isn't about the OP or her son anymore. Just ramblings of what everyone thinks is right and arguing points with the PP. Just. Crazy.

 

You must be new around these parts...welcome to the hive. :001_smile:

[PineFarmMom]

No, I am good with the context as I was responding to this generalized statement.

 

"I think many parents are so busy trying to feel good about themselves for reaching out to other kids or ministering outside of their homes that they aren't fully looking at what they may be doing to their own families!! "

 

There is not a single post where I think anyone, includeing myself, is advocating helping others at the expense of their families.

 

Sorry. The implication runs throughout the entire thread and it goes something like this: "You're a big meanie closed-minded jerk if you protect your son and don't reach out to this girl."

 

The quote of mine above...I stand by it. I see it regularly and I've seen it here on these boards, implied and boldly stated. All those who try to protect get blasted for it. :glare:

[PineFarmMom]

Would calling an overweight person "fatso" be rude or descriptive?

 

 

 

 

 

(It's rude.)

 

Quite!!!!!!

[asta]

Well, or maybe your wrong & the original poster actually has an accurate instinct about the girl dating her son.

 

Susan

 

Hey - nice redirect!

[kiana]

Calling her dad a wh*re is rude. Promiscuous is just as descriptive without sounding as crass.

Knowing teenagers, she was using the word for shock value, not because the KJV uses it. :rolleyes:

 

I'd be more inclined to believe that she doesn't know what promiscuous means. The word has probably not been used in her daily life.

[kalanamak]

Well, or maybe your wrong & the original poster actually has an accurate instinct about the girl dating her son.

 

Susan

 

Accurate or not, she'd like her to leave her son alone, but it seems son cannot just be forbidden, or he'll sneak about (shock of shocks). If I thought someone was dangerously bad news and son was zapped with her mind-beams of hormones into doing her bidding, I would want her run off, too. That this one is that dangerous, who knows. It isn't Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, but nor is it meth.

 

Ideally, it would be covert running off. If smitten/besotted son KNOWS mom ran her off, he might, in the modern terminology, "act out" over it. There is also the idea, seen a tedious amount of times, that rejecting a child's romantic interest gives them a cause in common...throws them in together, as it were.

 

I work with a lot of people with teen kids. The standard practice around here is to ship them off to the non-residential parent in another state (really, nearly everyone at work is divorced). (This can backfire, and other parent turns out worse than the unwanted suitor.) The next thing I witness is the endless-phone-call parenting strategy. I don't know if this works out, but it sure keeps the child actively engaged, and all the co-workers up-to-the-minute :lol:. The cell phone companies love it, too. I don't know if it works, or if it merely aggravates the teen into better behavior, or just puts a bandaid on the aching, frightened heart of the parent until the kid outgrows this stage.

 

How about a magic spell? Cutting open a wart at midnight and smearing the blood on a piece of wood and tossing that into the local river, a la Tom Sawyer? How does one run off an unwanted suitor of a teen?

 

Is forbidding the girl access to the house likely to drive her off, or just make whatever happens out of sight? I don't know that a study has been done of this: I know my kid is smoking a lot of pot, and better for him to do it at home than be out and about and driving in cars with other stoned teens vs. if I allow MJ in the house we are on the road to ruin, and I may even be arrested. Similar story about teen girl and BCPills.

 

Ahhh, such is life and the constant struggle of us poor social creatures.

[parias1126]

You must be new around these parts...welcome to the hive. :001_smile:

 

Actually, I have been around for a while. I just don't post that often or get involved in posts like these (usually). :001_smile:

[Alicia64]

Well, I appreciate how gracious you are, but I do apologize again for thinking he was over 18. Yikes.

 

I've never been a prude, but now that I have boys of my own, I'm much more inclined to be in agreement with Jessie Wise. . . that kids at 15 just don't need to be dating.

 

I listened to her mp3 talk about "what I'd do differently."

 

I HIGHLY recommend it.

 

Alley

[justamouse]

nebbermind

[kalanamak]

I'd be more inclined to believe that she doesn't know what promiscuous means. The word has probably not been used in her daily life.

 

:lol:

[susankenny]

Accurate or not, she'd like her to leave her son alone, but it seems son cannot just be forbidden, or he'll sneak about (shock of shocks). If I thought someone was dangerously bad news and son was zapped with her mind-beams of hormones into doing her bidding, I would want her run off, too. That this one is that dangerous, who knows. It isn't Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, but nor is it meth.

 

Ideally, it would be covert running off. If smitten/besotted son KNOWS mom ran her off, he might, in the modern terminology, "act out" over it. There is also the idea, seen a tedious amount of times, that rejecting a child's romantic interest gives them a cause in common...throws them in together, as it were.

 

I work with a lot of people with teen kids. The standard practice around here is to ship them off to the non-residential parent in another state (really, nearly everyone at work is divorced). (This can backfire, and other parent turns out worse than the unwanted suitor.) The next thing I witness is the endless-phone-call parenting strategy. I don't know if this works out, but it sure keeps the child actively engaged, and all the co-workers up-to-the-minute :lol:. The cell phone companies love it, too. I don't know if it works, or if it merely aggravates the teen into better behavior, or just puts a bandaid on the aching, frightened heart of the parent until the kid outgrows this stage.

 

How about a magic spell? Cutting open a wart at midnight and smearing the blood on a piece of wood and tossing that into the local river, a la Tom Sawyer? How does one run off an unwanted suitor of a teen?

 

Is forbidding the girl access to the house likely to drive her off, or just make whatever happens out of sight? I don't know that a study has been done of this: I know my kid is smoking a lot of pot, and better for him to do it at home than be out and about and driving in cars with other stoned teens vs. if I allow MJ in the house we are on the road to ruin, and I may even be arrested. Similar story about teen girl and BCPills.

 

Ahhh, such is life and the constant struggle of us poor social creatures.

 

I agree. There is no guarantees in life & whatever choice is made could end up backfiring. Parenting is hard & hindsight (although valuable) is rarely beneficial in a case like this. The way I read the op's concerns was basically saying that she doesn't think her son's girlfriend is good for her son. Her gut is telling her that she could be bad news. Should she interfere? Should she leave it alone? This imho is not just about an adult disliking a child. It is more about the ever delicate attempt to balance parenting and knowing when to step back or when to step in regarding our kids. I feel that is what Delaney was asking from all of us and the phrasing of "running her off" was merely poor wording. This is about her son & not the girl, or her family. It is about her son & how to best handle this as a parent. He is 15. That's such a delicate age. Only she can best decide how to respond, if at all. She certainly has been given a lot of food for thought though.

 

Susan

[MariannNOVA]

I've BTDT -- it's a thin line that one has to walk. IME, the more forbidden a parent makes something or someone, the more attractive he/she/it becomes. just my .02;)

[Margaret in GA]

I agree. There is no guarantees in life & whatever choice is made could end up backfiring. Parenting is hard & hindsight (although valuable) is rarely beneficial in a case like this. The way I read the op's concerns was basically saying that she doesn't think her son's girlfriend is good for her son. Her gut is telling her that she could be bad news. Should she interfere? Should she leave it alone? This imho is not just about an adult disliking a child. It is more about the ever delicate attempt to balance parenting and knowing when to step back or when to step in regarding our kids. I feel that is what Delaney was asking from all of us and the phrasing of "running her off" was merely poor wording. This is about her son & not the girl, or her family. It is about her son & how to best handle this as a parent. He is 15. That's such a delicate age. Only she can best decide how to respond, if at all. She certainly has been given a lot of food for thought though.

 

Susan

 

:iagree:

[Joanne]

Imho, a kid who is stable and has his/her emotional needs met, will tend toward healthy relationships and will draw away from dysfunctional ones... not always immediately, but in general. ymmv :)

 

Eliana, this is probably my favorite post of WTM history.:001_smile:

[simka2]

Our kids aren't dating, and won't be until they are ready for marriage, but I do have some recent experience dealing with concerns about a friend's influence on my kid(s)... and I have, relatively recently, ended a child's close connection with a pair of friends.

 

First: Imnsho, this isn't about the other kid(s), it's about mine. It isn't his/her background, manners or morals... it's how those things do or don't impact my kid.

 

Related to that: I would never try to drive someone away - that seems so unkind and inappropriate... and a way of trying to achieve a certain goal without doing the hard work to do it right, without parenting my kid.

 

In my worldview, part of being a mother is having some say in the company my kids keep (for me that includes their 'imaginary' companions as well - I screen their reading material). But I don't see that process as black and white... and the decision dh & I make might vary widely from child to child, or from one season in a kid's life to another.

 

The question isn't: 'is this kid "good enough" to be around mine?', it's: 'is this friendship a healthy one for my kid?' or 'is this situation one my kid is equipped to handle?'

 

When I've felt a potential friendship was one my kid wasn't ready for, or would suffer from (it's only happened once so far...) I talked with the kid involved and let him/her know where we stood, and then we tactfully avoided some situations and deflected the possibility as gently and kindly as possible.

 

When I've seen an existing friendship that isn't being healthy for a kid (only once for this, too), again, I've talked it over with my kid (who disagreed and was not happy with us at all), and took steps to limit contact drastically. (My kid communicated directly with the friend).

 

 

...and in both cases, we worked really hard to draw our kid closer, to convey the love and caring behind our decision, to convey how important their well being is to us... even when it would be easier for everyone to let things go on as they are.

 

One really important note: In neither of these conversations did I convey judgment of the other kid... my focus was always on the impact on my kid... the 'this situation isn't good for you, and I can see that because _____. Or this situation has these concerns for us and at this time we're not comfortable having it continue.'

 

This is really hard to do, and even harder to to genuinely, but if you mess it up, you risk incredible damage to your relationship with your child.

 

This was so hard for me recently because one of my younger kids had been harmed by the friendship I was ending, so I had some anger to work through before I could handle the conversation well.

 

But I spent time thinking from the friend's perspective, from that kid's background, situation, personality, life challenges, and s/he isn't a "bad" kid... s/he just has some baggage that didn't mesh well with where my kid was at - I had misjudged my kid's capacity and stability. It wasn't the friend's "fault", s/he acted from his/her background and experience - and my kids made their own choices, for which they, and they alone are responsible.

 

So I tried to convey compassion for the soon to be former friend, compassion for the grief my kid was feeling about the end of a friendship which had been very important to him/her, and validation of the importance that friendship had for him/her.

 

I was also careful that there wasn't a punitive note to the.. proceedings. We made some major changes on a number of fronts, but it wasn't about punishment, or even really consequences, it was trying to respond to the root of the problem, to the heart level and its causes.

 

 

...because if a friendship is causing problems for a kid, it isn't about the friendship, there is something else going on, and the friendship/the situation/or circumstances were the trigger or the last straw... or just the vehicle for the expression of the real issue(s).

 

Imho, a kid who is stable and has his/her emotional needs met, will tend toward healthy relationships and will draw away from dysfunctional ones... not always immediately, but in general. ymmv :)

 

 

First of all, that was a beautiful post!!!! Joanne already pulled out one of my favorites, but the above bolded is a close 2nd for me :D.

 

Thanks for sharing!!!

[asta]

Eliana,

 

Thank you for eloquently writing what I was trying to say.

 

 

asta

[Tammyla]

Beautiful post:grouphug:

 

Our kids aren't dating, and won't be until they are ready for marriage, but I do have some recent experience dealing with concerns about a friend's influence on my kid(s)... and I have, relatively recently, ended a child's close connection with a pair of friends.

 

First: Imnsho, this isn't about the other kid(s), it's about mine. It isn't his/her background, manners or morals... it's how those things do or don't impact my kid.

 

Related to that: I would never try to drive someone away - that seems so unkind and inappropriate... and a way of trying to achieve a certain goal without doing the hard work to do it right, without parenting my kid.

 

In my worldview, part of being a mother is having some say in the company my kids keep (for me that includes their 'imaginary' companions as well - I screen their reading material). But I don't see that process as black and white... and the decision dh & I make might vary widely from child to child, or from one season in a kid's life to another.

 

The question isn't: 'is this kid "good enough" to be around mine?', it's: 'is this friendship a healthy one for my kid?' or 'is this situation one my kid is equipped to handle?'

 

When I've felt a potential friendship was one my kid wasn't ready for, or would suffer from (it's only happened once so far...) I talked with the kid involved and let him/her know where we stood, and then we tactfully avoided some situations and deflected the possibility as gently and kindly as possible.

 

When I've seen an existing friendship that isn't being healthy for a kid (only once for this, too), again, I've talked it over with my kid (who disagreed and was not happy with us at all), and took steps to limit contact drastically. (My kid communicated directly with the friend).

 

 

...and in both cases, we worked really hard to draw our kid closer, to convey the love and caring behind our decision, to convey how important their well being is to us... even when it would be easier for everyone to let things go on as they are.

 

One really important note: In neither of these conversations did I convey judgment of the other kid... my focus was always on the impact on my kid... the 'this situation isn't good for you, and I can see that because _____. Or this situation has these concerns for us and at this time we're not comfortable having it continue.'

 

This is really hard to do, and even harder to to genuinely, but if you mess it up, you risk incredible damage to your relationship with your child.

 

This was so hard for me recently because one of my younger kids had been harmed by the friendship I was ending, so I had some anger to work through before I could handle the conversation well.

 

But I spent time thinking from the friend's perspective, from that kid's background, situation, personality, life challenges, and s/he isn't a "bad" kid... s/he just has some baggage that didn't mesh well with where my kid was at - I had misjudged my kid's capacity and stability. It wasn't the friend's "fault", s/he acted from his/her background and experience - and my kids made their own choices, for which they, and they alone are responsible.

 

So I tried to convey compassion for the soon to be former friend, compassion for the grief my kid was feeling about the end of a friendship which had been very important to him/her, and validation of the importance that friendship had for him/her.

 

I was also careful that there wasn't a punitive note to the.. proceedings. We made some major changes on a number of fronts, but it wasn't about punishment, or even really consequences, it was trying to respond to the root of the problem, to the heart level and its causes.

 

 

...because if a friendship is causing problems for a kid, it isn't about the friendship, there is something else going on, and the friendship/the situation/or circumstances were the trigger or the last straw... or just the vehicle for the expression of the real issue(s).

 

Imho, a kid who is stable and has his/her emotional needs met, will tend toward healthy relationships and will draw away from dysfunctional ones... not always immediately, but in general. ymmv :)

[susankenny]

Agreed! Glad to see we all agree on this. What a wonderful post!

 

Susan

 

Our kids aren't dating, and won't be until they are ready for marriage, but I do have some recent experience dealing with concerns about a friend's influence on my kid(s)... and I have, relatively recently, ended a child's close connection with a pair of friends.

 

First: Imnsho, this isn't about the other kid(s), it's about mine. It isn't his/her background, manners or morals... it's how those things do or don't impact my kid.

 

Related to that: I would never try to drive someone away - that seems so unkind and inappropriate... and a way of trying to achieve a certain goal without doing the hard work to do it right, without parenting my kid.

 

In my worldview, part of being a mother is having some say in the company my kids keep (for me that includes their 'imaginary' companions as well - I screen their reading material). But I don't see that process as black and white... and the decision dh & I make might vary widely from child to child, or from one season in a kid's life to another.

 

The question isn't: 'is this kid "good enough" to be around mine?', it's: 'is this friendship a healthy one for my kid?' or 'is this situation one my kid is equipped to handle?'

 

When I've felt a potential friendship was one my kid wasn't ready for, or would suffer from (it's only happened once so far...) I talked with the kid involved and let him/her know where we stood, and then we tactfully avoided some situations and deflected the possibility as gently and kindly as possible.

 

When I've seen an existing friendship that isn't being healthy for a kid (only once for this, too), again, I've talked it over with my kid (who disagreed and was not happy with us at all), and took steps to limit contact drastically. (My kid communicated directly with the friend).

 

 

...and in both cases, we worked really hard to draw our kid closer, to convey the love and caring behind our decision, to convey how important their well being is to us... even when it would be easier for everyone to let things go on as they are.

 

One really important note: In neither of these conversations did I convey judgment of the other kid... my focus was always on the impact on my kid... the 'this situation isn't good for you, and I can see that because _____. Or this situation has these concerns for us and at this time we're not comfortable having it continue.'

 

This is really hard to do, and even harder to to genuinely, but if you mess it up, you risk incredible damage to your relationship with your child.

 

This was so hard for me recently because one of my younger kids had been harmed by the friendship I was ending, so I had some anger to work through before I could handle the conversation well.

 

But I spent time thinking from the friend's perspective, from that kid's background, situation, personality, life challenges, and s/he isn't a "bad" kid... s/he just has some baggage that didn't mesh well with where my kid was at - I had misjudged my kid's capacity and stability. It wasn't the friend's "fault", s/he acted from his/her background and experience - and my kids made their own choices, for which they, and they alone are responsible.

 

So I tried to convey compassion for the soon to be former friend, compassion for the grief my kid was feeling about the end of a friendship which had been very important to him/her, and validation of the importance that friendship had for him/her.

 

I was also careful that there wasn't a punitive note to the.. proceedings. We made some major changes on a number of fronts, but it wasn't about punishment, or even really consequences, it was trying to respond to the root of the problem, to the heart level and its causes.

 

 

...because if a friendship is causing problems for a kid, it isn't about the friendship, there is something else going on, and the friendship/the situation/or circumstances were the trigger or the last straw... or just the vehicle for the expression of the real issue(s).

 

Imho, a kid who is stable and has his/her emotional needs met, will tend toward healthy relationships and will draw away from dysfunctional ones... not always immediately, but in general. ymmv :)

[pqr]

I agree with many other posters, this is a well written piece, but unfortunately being well written does not always mean that the opinion is, in the eyes of many, correct.

 

Related to that: I would never try to drive someone away - that seems so unkind and inappropriate... and a way of trying to achieve a certain goal without doing the hard work to do it right, without parenting my kid.

 

 

This quite a leap in arguing that cutting off a relationship is either not hard work or not parenting. As to doing "it right", well there are many ways to skin a cat, who is to say which is correct?

 

One really important note: In neither of these conversations did I convey judgment of the other kid... my focus was always on the impact on my kid... the 'this situation isn't good for you, and I can see that because _____. Or this situation has these concerns for us and at this time we're not comfortable having it continue.'

 

 

 

 

The above example fits the correct or logical issue. Why would you not judge? If I limit contact it is because a relationship is damaging and that is precisely because I have judged and found the other child wanting. Not informing my child of the specifics of my concern would mean not informing my child of a judgment that I made.

 

" 'this situation isn't good for you, and I can see that because of" x, y and z is in itself a judgment. How do you define x y and z without implicit judgment?

 

"Seeing Maria is bad for you because she is rude, uncouth, ill brought up and not the type of individual that we would have you associate with. We are concerned about her morality and frankly expect that you choose better friends, she is not welcome in this house. The behavior is a poor example for you." is also a judgment but offers the child more points of reference. A parent may and should then discuss the concerns and listen to feedback, but this can not be done without JUDGMENT.

 

This is really hard to do, and even harder to to genuinely, but if you mess it up, you risk incredible damage to your relationship with your child

 

 

I would argue that failure to admit to one's child that the parent is judging is not being genuine.

 

So I tried to convey compassion for the soon to be former friend, compassion for the grief my kid was feeling about the end of a friendship which had been very important to him/her, and validation of the importance that friendship had for him/her.

 

I was also careful that there wasn't a punitive note to the.. proceedings. We made some major changes on a number of fronts, but it wasn't about punishment, or even really consequences, it was trying to respond to the root of the problem, to the heart level and its causes.

 

 

Here we are in full agreement.

 

Imho, a kid who is stable and has his/her emotional needs met, will tend toward healthy relationships and will draw away from dysfunctional ones... not always immediately, but in general.

 

 

I agree, but reliance on trends is not parenting. The parent must step in when necessary and make judgment calls. In the formative years of a child there will be times when he moves in unexpected directions, when these are also dangerous the parent must step in. This is not always done "nicely" (though one tries) and it is always done based on judgment.

 

As I stated, your piece was well written, but it lacks the required basis or judgment and honesty. We all judge, we all should judge and he who denies it may not be completely honest with himself.

 

In the OP the poster was judging, rightly so, and in doing so was doing the hard work of parenting. She faced ugly reality and is making a call. Semantics, of "running off" or whatever more cuddly term one wishes to use change nothing. The girl was deemed a threat and the OP wanted to know how to remove that threat. This is honesty and parenting, warts and all. To attempt "window dressing" may make everyone feel better and assuage internal guilt, but is actually dishonest. Call a spade a spade....call the girl rude and potentially dangerous. Judge her.... the future of your child may depend on it.

 

Once you have made a judgment then one can play with the best means to achieve the intended goal, but do not shy away from the hard work first.

Edited December 27, 2010 by pqr

[Nestof3]

Speaking from experience, since I have a 20 year old, I have to say this isn't always true. There's also an innocence in people who are used to honesty and integrity -- the come to expect it, so they are less likely to pick up on dishonesty and lack of integrity when they meet it. I've seen this true especially if the person has a strong defender/protector spirit. These people see the best in others, hope for the best, defend them and protect them to the end. These people are loyal and persevere. This is good with the right person, but it can be dangerous if it's the wrong person.

 

We never thought our son would have to decide whether he was willing to overlook an STD because he believes in a person so much. It was shocking to discover he was making these decisions on his own.

 

I'm just saying that there are ideas we have about the way things work, but until your kids are old enough to really make completely autonomous decisions, you don't really know.

 

Now, our son is generally drawn to healthy relationships, but romantic relationships get trickier, in my opinion.

 

Eliana, this is probably my favorite post of WTM history.:001_smile:

[Mejane]

 

Now, our son is generally drawn to healthy relationships, but romantic relationships get trickier, in my opinion.

 

:iagree:When chemistry (hormones) comes in, common sense often goes out.

[susankenny]

This quite a leap in arguing that cutting off a relationship is either not hard work or not parenting. As to doing "it right", well there are many ways to skin a cat, who is to say which is correct?

 

 

 

I think her point (or the way I read it) was "driving someone away" implies that you are being indirect about the issues at hand. She said that she has had to end relationships between other kids & her own, and in doing so, her & her husband simply addressed the kids directly, with an honest explanation.

 

 

I don't know how to do multiple quotes, but as for not judging...again, the way I read Eliana's post is that she truly isn't judging the "friend"...at least not in a "my child is too god for you" kind of way. But rather, she's observing her own child's behavior and responding to that. It isn't about the friend & their poor choices, but more-so it is about your own child and their behavior & attitude in relationships. It has to do with gauging their own maturity to make wise decisions, and when they can't...sometimes parental intervention is necessary.

 

Anyway. I think you two were saying similar things in just different ways.

 

Susan

[asta]

I think her point (or the way I read it) was "driving someone away" implies that you are being indirect about the issues at hand. She said that she has had to end relationships between other kids & her own, and in doing so, her & her husband simply addressed the kids directly, with an honest explanation.

 

 

I don't know how to do multiple quotes, but as for not judging...again, the way I read Eliana's post is that she truly isn't judging the "friend"...at least not in a "my child is too god for you" kind of way. But rather, she's observing her own child's behavior and responding to that. It isn't about the friend & their poor choices, but more-so it is about your own child and their behavior & attitude in relationships. It has to do with gauging their own maturity to make wise decisions, and when they can't...sometimes parental intervention is necessary.

 

Anyway. I think you two were saying similar things in just different ways.

 

Susan

 

I know it is a typo - but dang if it doesn't fit some of this thread...

 

 

a

[susankenny]

I know it is a typo - but dang if it doesn't fit some of this thread...

 

 

a

 

 

LOL. Sorry. That's funny though. God stuff!...I mean good.

 

 

Susan

[pqr]

 

 

Anyway. I think you two were saying similar things in just different ways.

 

 

 

 

I suspect that we are not too far apart beyond the judgment bit. I do judge and I let my children know how I feel. That is part of parenting. The idea that I would "not convey judgment of the other kid" is an anathema. Why would I not evidence my values to my children? If I feel that a person is "bad" I will tell my children, to do otherwise (especially for a teen) would be at best dishonest.

 

Further, failure to admit that one is judging is being dishonest with oneself.

[Rebecca VA]

I wish this thread had started out with a poll. For example:

 

HOW DO I RUN OFF MY SON'S GIRLFRIEND:

 

1. Tell son he has to break off all contact.

2. Tell girlfriend myself that all contact must be broken.

3. Be super-nice to her and hope that will scare her away.

4. Allow son to keep seeing her, but keep lines of communication open.

5. Have son break it off romantically but let them be good friends.

6. Don't do anything at all.

 

At this point the thread is 24 pages of posters talking past each other, with no clear direction for Delaney. I'd love to see a poll of what everyone would actually do in this situation.

[Mejane]

At this point the thread is 24 pages of posters talking past each other, with no clear direction for Delaney. I'd love to see a poll of what everyone would actually do in this situation.

 

Interesting. I thought there were two very clear schools of thought:

 

1. Forbid son outright from dating her (or dating period.)

 

2. Be kind to her while hoping the relationship ends or she changes.

 

What did I miss?

[kalanamak]

I wish this thread had started out with a poll. For example:

 

HOW DO I RUN OFF MY SON'S GIRLFRIEND:

 

1. Tell son he has to break off all contact.

.

 

OP has already said this would result in sneaking around. A healthy imaginative teen who isn't homebound WILL do a lot of what they want to, if they decide to. I think she'd rather not pull him from school and tomato-stake him. She'd like the girl to lose interest.

[Elaine]

 

Why does it have to be black and white? There are so many gray areas in life.

 

Not when it comes to my children there aren't. I love my boys. I protect my boys. I am the adult. When I see a behavior or an influence in their life that is contrary or detrimental to the way that I am raising them, then it gets changed. If it is a person, then they go. I make no apologies for this stance either.

 

My boys tow the line and so do their friends when they are in my home, and my home is always filled with my boys' friends. I once overheard my son say to a neighborhood boy, "We are not allowed to use that language here." They know that respect is the norm here, and one of two things happen. Either they the rise to the occasion, or refuse to come around knowing that we don't tolerate a certain type of behavior. They can choose to continue with that behavior and that's fine, just not in my home.

 

I would be kind to this girl, but if her behavior did not change than she would no longer be welcome in my home.

[pqr]

Eliana,

 

Sometimes individuals see things differently. I respect your views on judgment (as they are obviously considered), but disagree wholeheartedly. I see no issue in judging the individual, as that is part of my decision making process. I also tend to be much more frank when dealing with my children, I have, and probably will again, informed them that I do not want them associating with certain children because those children are punks. To answer the question.... yes I told my children that the others were "punks, rude and not to my standards" using those words. If I then imparted a lesson and demonstrated to my children living examples of the aforementioned then I am glad of it. As I said... different ways of dealing with an issue. I would have no issue describing the girl in the OP as "rude and ill raised", given evidence I might also inform a son that she was "trashy." If the bill fits.....

[chadzwife]

I think Elaine has hit the nail on the head. We don't do that here, period. I said 50 times, if I said it 100, you can do it when you're an adult, which you're not. My kids call me the meanest mom in the world still and my olders are 27, 25, etc. No one was allowed to get addicted to crack, get pregnant or have a probation officer. I'm. Just. Like. That.

My kids' stepcousin went to jail after getting heroin for his 17yo pregnant gf who then OD'd, then HE died in jail at age 19. (we lived in a small, small town too).

I tell them--sorry, kids, you are now living, educated, productive members of society, sue me LOL.

Kids had to turn their shirts inside out at my house if it had something offensive on it and they didn't want to go change their shirts. I was not "understanding" of their "different" upbringing & "beliefs". They did so willingly and told newcomers to turn their shirts inside out too, yeah we had a nice basketball court and I bought ice cream for sundaes every now and then. They did not use foul language and would get on a new kid about it if it happened: hey watch your mouth, they don't talk like that here! (I thot it just showed, kids do what you LET THEM) They didn't play tackle football with girls, just touch, and my oldest daughter almost always played--yeah, she was good. They wore clothes over their "swimsuits" (one little girl tried to tell me, well it's *public* underwear... ;) ) when the water went on, becuz that's just what we did at our house. We go to your house, your rules are different, we won't tell you you're wrong either (can't guarantee we'll stay and watch WWF tho...). I'm just showing how restrictive some would find *our rules* and yet the kids would not stay away!

These kids would come over and WORK with us, sort grain b4 I discovered triple cleaned grain (you can't imagine how tedious this is), rake leaves, wash dishes. No game system in the house and no tv, just a seldom used vcr. We had snow-sledding, evolving into snowboarding, parties out back though with a quarter pipe my son built -- and a basketball hoop in front. At 16, my oldest could not leave the yard without permission and he was a GOOD kid, not a punishment. It was rude to just take off and I didn't know where you were, even if just down the street or you had a lawn job to be at. He didn't roam in the packs that came over. He worked toward being a man, not useless.

There was no girls sitting on boys laps or handholding even. There was/is no offensive music played (I have little ones again at home). If the radio is on some pop-station b4 I catch it, the 10yo neighbor, currently, with the mom and dad STILL not married, will turn the station quickly if something SHE KNOWS is bad, comes on. She is completely of the world, and she knows already what is good and bad. Again, I simply have boundaries and my house is WAY FUN. And I made/make really weird health food that is like soooo omg actually good -- quote, unquote :)

It's probably too late to establish these boundaries now at 15 or 16, but for the younger ones in the family, maybe? No dating, that's something you do when you're looking for a spouse, like when you can support a family lol.

I know there's alot of controversial things in this and I'm not debating worth. The point is more, what do you allow your kids? If you're gonna let him make a friend like that with no adult supervision, you've set up for a scenario like the one you're in. I prefer to not have the drama and be the meanest mom in the world. I still think 12-17yos need more supervision than 2yos. They're so close to rationality again, yet so close to destruction. Teens NEED their parents!

My 40 cents :lol:

[kiana]

I guess the issue on whether she'd be welcome back comes down to -- if she does something uncouth and is told 'Sorry, but we don't do that/use that language/whatever', will she apologize and try not to do it, or will she just do it again because she doesn't care? The first I'd work with, the second not.

[Garga]

Reading through all this, I've been trying to remember what I was like when I was a teenager and dating.

 

I had my first boyfriend at 16. I was a serious sort of child who expected to find someone to marry and then stay married forever. So, when I had my first boyfriend, I just sort of assumed I'd marry him.

 

He was not a good match for me. He was a good kid, but we were not a good match. However, in my mind, I figured that since we were dating, it would eventually lead to marriage. So, whatever problems we had, I figured I'd just have to work around them and deal with them.

 

Fortunately, his mother stepped in and ended the relationship. I'm not entirely sure why, since I was a very good girl, but I think she just wasn't ready to let go of her son yet. I remember that when the relationship ended, I was heart-broken (I mean, a great big sobbing mess) and my parents were puzzled. They were so concerned at my emotional outburst that they called the pastor over to try to comfort me. They said to him, "Well, she's just a kid! It's not like they were getting married!" and the pastor said, "But in most dating relationships, don't many of us have in the back of our mind that this could be the person you'll marry? So, yes...in a way, she did think they were getting married."

 

He hit it right on the head. At that young age, I thought that I would find a boy, wait until we were old enough, and get married. Even though we weren't really a good match. I thought that "good" people worked through their problems, and stayed committed to each other. I wasn't sure I'd find another person (I had a low self-esteem, like many teenagers who are unsure of themselves), so I thought I'd just work with what I had been offered.

 

 

My point: I think the OP should take her son's feelings very seriously. Lots of post have indicated that this is young "love" and they'll put the words "love" in quotes, as if it isn't real. To the OPs son, it could be very, seriously, real (as it was for me in my teens.) And my pastor at the time knew that this was true: many people dating (even in their mid-teens) might already be viewing the person as a life partner.

 

This is why this situation is so sticky. I think the OP should discuss her concerns with her son. I remember that my mother made some gentle observations about how my first love wasn't really a good match for me. She didn't sit down and 'tell' me anything...she just observed, "Wow. J loves sports a lot and never reads books. You hate sports and love to read. That's a shame you can't share your favorite hobbies with each other...." It put seeds of doubts about our relationship in my mind. Looking back, I wish she'd gone a little further and pointed out to me that I should have started looking for someone who was a better match (if she'd have known I thought I was going to marry my first boyfriend, she might have been more direct with me! She just didn't know that I assumed I'd marry the first guy I dated.)

[Lovedtodeath]

I said that about "driving someone away" rather than dealing directly with one's child. Focusing on getting the friend to decamp rather than on my kid seems to me to missing the point. ...and missing the opportunity to teach lasting lessons.

 

Because it isn't useful, and it can be harmful. And, from a faith based position, my faith teaches us to be dan l'chaf zechus, to judge others favorably, to assume the best... but we are still expected to protect ourselves from possible harm.

 

I don't judge other *people*, I can, and *do* judge specific actions, and I must judge what situations are safe or healthy for my children.

 

What I don't do is judge *people*. When I correct my children, I correct their choices, and I send clear messages of value judgments... but I am very clear that I am condemning their *choice* not *them.* This isn't semantics, and it is, in and of itself, a very important religious value, which we try to teach by modeling not just by describing.

 

I would be more likely to say, "Seeing Maria is bad for you because since you have started spending so much time with her, you've made these _________, choices, you've yielded to her urgings to do things you knew were wrong, you've taken on some of her speech patterns which you know are unacceptable."

 

When I see a situation, a potential friend, or even a book which appeals to my kid, but which I deem potentially harmful, enough so that we are forbidding it, my focus isn't on how horrible the thing, person, situation is...it is on the specific things which are risky for my kid.

 

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I am genuinely not judging the other child in this situation. I judged the impact on mine. I judged my child's choices, my child's vulnurability, and, frankly, my own shortcomings - the ways it which I wasn't there enough, wasn't proactive enough, didn't recognize that my child was needing stronger boundaries in this area.

:iagree:And your details are a very helpful reminder, IMO! Yet condensed. I added the tag so that I can find your post later.

 

Separate from any specific instances, we talk about the power, positive and negative, of friendship. We study texts which include emphasis on the way we, children and adults alike, are shaped by our companions and our environments - by friends, co-workers, fellow students, the books we read, the music we listen to, the videos we watch, the way we spend our leisure, the venues we spend time in... all these things shape us, in large ways or small. And what can be right and safe for one person at one time won't necessarily be so for another person, or for that same person at another season in his/her life.

JWs do the same thing. :) Edited December 28, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

Scriptural reminders: (in general, I do not know this person in the OP or her influence)

 

“Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.â€â€”1 Cor. 15:33.

 

“He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.†(Prov. 13:20)

 

Psalm 26:4 "I have not sat with men of untruth;

And with those who hide what they are I do not come in.

 

5 I have hated the congregation of evildoers,

And with the wicked ones I do not sit."

 

"On the other hand, we exhort YOU, brothers, admonish the disorderly, speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long-suffering toward all." --1 Thessalonians 5:14

 

“who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong.†(Romans 15:1)

 

“I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.†(John 17:15, 16)

 

“As long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all.†(Gal. 6:10)

 

“When you spread a dinner or evening meal, do not call your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors. Perhaps some time they might also invite you in return and it would become a repayment to you. But when you spread a feast, invite poor people, crippled, lame, blind; and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you.†(Luke 14:12-14)

 

“Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also approve those practicing them.â€â€”Rom. 1:32.

 

“Get out from among them, and separate yourselves.†(2 Cor. 6:17)

 

“You must form no marriage alliance with them. Your daughter you must not give to his son, and his daughter you must not take for your son. For he will turn your son from following me, and they will certainly serve other gods.†(Deut. 7:3, 4)

 

“What sharing do righteousness and lawlessness have?â€â€”2 Cor. 6:14.

 

Those who are divorced or widowed and children who don't have one of their parents living in the home:

 

“for the alien resident, for the fatherless boy and for the widow.†(Deuteronomy 24:19-21)

 

“You people must not afflict any widow or fatherless boy.†(Exodus 22:22, 23)

 

“I would rescue the afflicted one crying for help, and the fatherless boy and anyone that had no helper.â€â€”Job 29:12.

 

“The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.â€â€”James 1:27.

[asta]

I had a dream the OP came back and ended this thread.

 

Alas.

[delaney]

I had a dream the OP came back and ended this thread.

 

Alas.

:lol:

Well I can tell you that the girl in question came over the other evening and I was very polite and cordial and chatted with her. Behaved myself....but the more she spoke the more I wanted to heave her out the front door:auto:

[Sophia]

:lol:

Well I can tell you that the girl in question came over the other evening and I was very polite and cordial and chatted with her. Behaved myself....but the more she spoke the more I wanted to heave her out the front door:auto:

 

:lol:

Way to practice self-control :thumbup1: