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Could you do this? Would YOU do THIS? (Sorry, long......)


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Four years ago DH and I began talking about buying a very small home or 'apartment' or something in Italy.

 

We began researching and reading and asking questions of folks who have traveled extensively there. We have a basic idea of where we would like to purchase.

 

That's not the point, though.

 

We own our home, we are in the midst of the final renovations that need to be done so we can sell (we live in a very desirable school pyramid). The financial particulars are not important to my question (which I promise to get to soon) - the point is, we are not looking to make a killing, there is the expectation that the house will go on the market when it is ready and it will sell. We live in a town with very little RE inventory - mostly b/c of the schools.

 

We are looking to purchase in an area with alot of inventory --tons to look at. We have been looking for a couple of months. We have been looking at a particular price point which is high -

 

Back to Italy: So today I mention to dh (b/c I don't know about you, but I am NOT getting any younger) that perhaps we could expedite the Italy plan and when we sell this, buy something NOT as extravagent (not as many 0s after the first number in the price) - something sort of like what we own now, and purchase the teeny weeny little place in Italy sooner.

 

And, I do not want to stay where we are - it is not where i want to be -- I want to sell and move to the town/city where we have been looking which is where our co-op is, dh's office is, and where I have wanted to live since we arrived here 9 years ago.

 

DH said fine - as long as I don't start kvetching about living in a small house. I said that I don't kvetch about living in a small house -- I kvetch about all the upheaval with all the work going on. We can easily purchase a home in the other place with the renovations and additions already done. As I said, it would be much much less grand than what we have been looking at.........actually, it wouldn't be grand at all. It would be rather pedestrian and normal and typical.

 

My 'could' and 'would' in 'could/would you do this?' has to do with 'could' you and 'would' you decide on the already renovated, move in condition smaller, less expensive home and be okay with it b/c the place in Italy (or wherever you want to go) was going to happen much sooner and you would have it to enjoy sooner.

 

Have I made sense here? I hope so. Thanks if you have stuck with me for this long. And, fwiw, I'm 56 years old (yes, with young kids) so I am NOT getting any younger!:glare:

Edited by MariannNOVA
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Oh. My. Word.

 

YES! In a heartbeat.

 

You have 2 kids at home, right? I would easily go for the smaller, already renovated home, in exchange for my dream coming true sooner!

 

And - as a bonus, you could make a fake "Italian window" - you know, pick a wall, put a print of an Italian landscape up, frame it and hang a curtain. When you're tempted to kvetch - just "look out the window" :D

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Oh. My. Word.

 

YES! In a heartbeat.

 

You have 2 kids at home, right? I would easily go for the smaller, already renovated home, in exchange for my dream coming true sooner!

 

And - as a bonus, you could make a fake "Italian window" - you know, pick a wall, put a print of an Italian landscape up, frame it and hang a curtain. When you're tempted to kvetch - just "look out the window" :D

 

Three at home - dd11 and almost ten year old b/g twins. See -- that's what I am thinking -- yes, our house is small......we go to our country place in :lol::lol::lol: Italy when it gets to us.

 

Besides, some of the houses we looked at last week -- i'm sorry, but WHO is going to take care of them? Not me -- :glare:

 

ETA: I'm Italian -- I'll just look in the mirror when I want to kvetch.

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Yes, and now I have a question for you - would you like to trade husbands? I've been wanting to do this forever, but mine wants nothing to do with it. :glare:

 

No, I do not want to trade - but I am curious: why doesn't he want to do it?

 

My sister and her dh have a quite modest home and they take the most fabulous trips and they are getting ready to purchase a vacation home (they have owned three other vacation homes - not at the same time - in the past) in their most recent vacation place in the US.

 

We know other folks who do it -- so, if you want to (and i do not want to pry or be inappropriate) i'd love to know why he doesn't want to do it. fwiw, I can think of a ton of folks who would think we were nuts.

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I want to move from my small house to an apartment. I want less stuff, less to clean and more me time.

 

I know someone who has a small place in Italy and goes 3 times a year. She has owned it for several years.

 

 

I see that you are in NYC -- I am from suburban Essex County in NJ (originally) -- and I worked in NYC for years - so did dh.

 

I am definitely feeling the 'less stuff, less cleaning, smaller space' pull.

 

Three times a year would make me a very happy camper.

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today. i would do it today.

 

dh and i chose a realistic sized home with 4 dds at home (2100 sq ft for 6 people). i do not like to clean house. i do not like to pay people to clean my house. therefore, it must be manageable. so i would do it with or without the italy option, just because it makes huge sense financially and practically.

 

where in italy?

ann

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Yes! I would do it! We haven't, and don't have the funds to do so, but I sure could if we did. For what it is worth, my MIL rents a tiny apartment that she calls "home" near her dds. She stays there about 1 week a month, maybe. The rest of the time she is in a home on the beach that she adores. Sometimes a friend goes with her, sometimes not. She has the smaller place because it is near family, but also near doctors and such when the beach home isn't and feels it will be a better place when she is no longer able to travel.

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today. i would do it today.

 

dh and i chose a realistic sized home with 4 dds at home (2100 sq ft for 6 people). i do not like to clean house. i do not like to pay people to clean my house. therefore, it must be manageable. so i would do it with or without the italy option, just because it makes huge sense financially and practically.

 

where in italy?

ann

 

Thank you for the practical, common sense advice. :)

 

Umbria.

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Yes!!! I'd do it! In fact, we're talking about doing something similar in a few years, when we make our next move for dh's job. Getting a slightly smaller house, and a weekend/summer getaway too.

 

It is good to hear the positive responses -- makes me think I am not out of my tree.

 

DH walked through earlier and asked: 'So, do the boardies think a smaller house and a really small house in Italy?' :lol:

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Yesterday. I would have done it yesterday. :D Go for it and don't look back. I love Italy (fellow Italian girl here) and if I could have my own little place there, I would in a heartbeat.

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

 

I would definitely do it. Having a smaller house will also give you more financial flexibility for other things. That is always good to have even if it not needed. And owning two houses even if one is a vacation home also gives greater flexibility than one.

 

 

Thank you and thank you. And, I agree, we should have done it yesterday. :)

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Yes, as others have echoed, in a heartbeat. We are currently in the market to downsize homes. I'm so excited, really. I don't like to clean, I want some cozy, it will force me to keep clutter to minimum. Throw in the bonus on an Italian home, yes, yes, yes.

 

I visited a old and dear friend (we're not old, at least I'm not claiming it, we've just known each other a long time;)) yesterday. She has 3 children, including 2 teens, in a 1100 sf house. They have a closeness that is so special. I'm sure it's not just the house, but I'm sure because of it they've had to forge a greater closeness.

 

Absolutely I would do it.

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It is good to hear the positive responses -- makes me think I am not out of my tree.

 

DH walked through earlier and asked: 'So, do the boardies think a smaller house and a really small house in Italy?' :lol:

 

Yes, we do! That's just so exciting. And it sounds like it's not unreasonable. Not just that you *want* to do it, but that you *can*. And that you're mentally prepared and ready for downsizing and not just doing it because you *have* to.

 

Cinder

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Yes, as others have echoed, in a heartbeat. We are currently in the market to downsize homes. I'm so excited, really. I don't like to clean, I want some cozy, it will force me to keep clutter to minimum. Throw in the bonus on an Italian home, yes, yes, yes.

 

I visited a old and dear friend (we're not old, at least I'm not claiming it, we've just known each other a long time;)) yesterday. She has 3 children, including 2 teens, in a 1100 sf house. They have a closeness that is so special. I'm sure it's not just the house, but I'm sure because of it they've had to forge a greater closeness.

 

Absolutely I would do it.

I do have to say that since we have been in this smaller house, we have all had to learn to be more, um, accomodating. Perhaps, we learned that when we were living in the extended stay hotel for four months - we were very aware that everyone was going to need an atittude adjustment if we were to make it a positive experience. Forging greater closeness is a physical and emotional thing, I think, and I have told the kids that the place in Italy will likely be one bedroom so they had better get used to the idea of one big happy family.....or familia.;)

 

Why on earth would you NOT do it???????????????????????????

 

I just wanted to make certain it sounded reasonable to reasonable folks.:) Four years ago it was " hey, what do you think of this idea? Today, it is - Hey, it's been four years since this idea took shape. We need to get going on it.

 

Yes, we do! That's just so exciting. And it sounds like it's not unreasonable. Not just that you *want* to do it, but that you *can*. And that you're mentally prepared and ready for downsizing and not just doing it because you *have* to.

 

Cinder

 

That is a good point - downsizing b/c one wants to not has to. I like that.:)

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Mariann - I don't know what advice to give you. We don't make enough money to ever have to make a decision like that.

 

With that being said - I am a low maintenance kind of gal with a bit of a lazy streak. I would choose a smaller house because I wouldn't want the pressure of decorating or maintaining a big abode. I like comfort and feeling cozy. Then again if I could afford a big house I could afford a cleaning service so...Hmm...

 

I want to travel and have always dreamed of having a little place in an exotic locale to which I could escape the travail of my daily, ordinary and completely humdrum life.

 

I guess what I am saying is I would go for the less expensive house, buy the place in Italy and invite my friend who has no life experience whatsoever to go on a lovely Italian excursion.

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Will you be able to get all of you to Italy frequently enough to justify the investment? Will you be able to rent it out if you can't get there because you have 3 kids in college at the same time?

 

Would renting a place in Italy satisfy the need?

 

We have family property in Europe and my BIL also has a country house (inherited). We can't get us all over there because of the $$ of living here and where we are in our lives. I like knowing we can go anytime, however. What i am saying is having a place doesn't translate as being able to get to the place. For us, I mean. ;) lol

 

My oldest BIL (retired) & his wife in the US rent the same (European) coastal home every August. This is enough for them. They have the space without the added care or expense of a second home.

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and we did something similar two years ago. We bought a small apartment in Peru because when dh retires, he wants to live in Peru part of the year. When we go there on holiday, we won't have to worry about paying for a hotel or inconveniencing relatives.

 

Since we bought it, dh has been back twice by himself. I don't know when we'll be able to afford to have the whole family go again, but dh is thinking that maybe we'll all move there next summer if our business here is not doing as well as he would like. If we moved there, we would most likely sell our house here.

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We started talking about something similar lately. We are not looking in Italy, but for a vacation place a little closer. It is a big step to take. My bet is we are where you were four or so years ago in our thought process. (We are also a bit younger.)

 

All that said, I can't wait to hear what you do. I also read in another thread where you are looking for your new house. It is one of my favorite places, too, and where I would want to live if we ever moved back to that area.

 

Good luck with everything.

 

Caroline

 

P.S. Would a visit to the Italy home be the new MCT incentive?

 

PPS. I got my first JJill order a few weeks ago your thread on deciding what to wear for dinner

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Where's the downside? If it turns out not to be for you, then you can make a new plan! The downside of not going for your dream...well, it can haunt you.

 

I prefer to live with as few "what if we had..."s as possible.

 

Good luck in your decision! :)

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Mariann - I don't know what advice to give you. We don't make enough money to ever have to make a decision like that.

 

With that being said - I am a low maintenance kind of gal with a bit of a lazy streak. I would choose a smaller house because I wouldn't want the pressure of decorating or maintaining a big abode. I like comfort and feeling cozy. Then again if I could afford a big house I could afford a cleaning service so...Hmm...

 

I want to travel and have always dreamed of having a little place in an exotic locale to which I could escape the travail of my daily, ordinary and completely humdrum life.

 

I guess what I am saying is I would go for the less expensive house, buy the place in Italy and invite my friend who has no life experience whatsoever to go on a lovely Italian excursion.

You are supposed to tell me to keep doing the shred and running with the dog so I don't look like a little 'mama 'elle' (short fat lady with children) when we get there.:lol: And, yes, you are invited b/c what good is having something like a teeny weeny little place anywhere if you cannot share it with friends?!:) Og and I have to keep shredding so that when you visit you are not mistaken for my beautiful, thin daughter!:glare:

 

Will you be able to get all of you to Italy frequently enough to justify the investment? Will you be able to rent it out if you can't get there because you have 3 kids in college at the same time? Yes, good questions. Those were all things we discussed and answered four years ago - more or less. And, another good question about the kids being in college - which is why the buy smaller and less expensive house makes sense in more than one area of consideration.

 

Would renting a place in Italy satisfy the need? Immediately prior to making the decision to purchase - definitely.:)

 

We have family property in Europe and my BIL also has a country house (inherited). We can't often get us all over there because of the $$ of living here and where we are in our lives (massive educational costs). I like knowing we can go anytime, however. What i am saying is having a place doesn't translate as being able to get to the place. For us, I mean. ;) lol

 

My oldest BIL (retired) & his wife in the US rent the same (European) coastal home every August. This is enough for them. They have the space without the added care or expense of a second home.

We have done that here in the states with homes on beaches that we love - and I definitely understand the rationale. Buying there, though, would be ideal - your family sounds like they have it figured out.:D

 

and we did something similar two years ago. We bought a small apartment in Peru because when dh retires, he wants to live in Peru part of the year. When we go there on holiday, we won't have to worry about paying for a hotel or inconveniencing relatives.

 

Since we bought it, dh has been back twice by himself. I don't know when we'll be able to afford to have the whole family go again, but dh is thinking that maybe we'll all move there next summer if our business here is not doing as well as he would like. If we moved there, we would most likely sell our house here.

Sounds like a plan - we also hope it would encourage some family members to come at the same time and join us.

 

We started talking about something similar lately. We are not looking in Italy, but for a vacation place a little closer. It is a big step to take. My bet is we are where you were four or so years ago in our thought process. (We are also a bit younger.)

 

All that said, I can't wait to hear what you do. I also read in another thread where you are looking for your new house. It is one of my favorite places, too, and where I would want to live if we ever moved back to that area.

 

Good luck with everything.

 

Caroline

 

P.S. Would a visit to the Italy home be the new MCT incentive?

 

PPS. I got my first JJill order a few weeks ago your thread on deciding what to wear for dinner

 

 

The MCT incentive? Wow -- I would have to learn how to say MCT in Italian. ;)

 

I was just looking at the fall JJill Catalog -- MOHAIR? It's 90 degrees right now. And, I love that place -- I can really get excited about a cute little house there.:)

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What area were you thinking about? We tried to move there a few years ago, but it would be a COMPLETE move, and my husband was not entirely sure that he could get a decent job there.

 

Of course, everyone said they would hire him IF he were living there...

 

All my husband's family is in Tuscany. Mountains around Lucca, in Lucca, Pisa, Siena, apartments in Viareggio and also one set of cousins in Alba.

 

Would go in a second.

 

Can't afford it.

 

You could even rent it to HSers for "eduational trips" when you aren't there. If you do get something, don't get something that will need a lot of repairs/modifications. The red tape is insane.

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Will you live in both places? Or is your dh's business such that it doesn't matter where he lives?

 

I think it is a heavenly idea! I would definitely downsize in order to gain the Italy home *if I were going to live there*. If I were only going to visit there on occasion (less than 4 or 5 times a year), I would opt for the home in the US that makes my family comfortable and find a nice rental in Italy when visiting.

 

My mom says we have a bit of gypsy in our genes - I sometimes wonder because I could so quickly pack up, sell it all, and move! Dh is from a conservative mid-west family who could live in the same house for upteen generations, using the same furniture, and eating at the same local diner! They are ever cautious; I'm always looking for opportunity to change.

 

So I'd say...Go for it! But make sure it has internet so you can stay in touch with all of us.

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From someone who desperately wishes to downsize and simplify, simplfy, simplify...

 

In a heartbeat.

 

Today we were out looking at everything from 100K more to 100K less than our estimated selling price. DH and I had to shake our heads at just how easily the least expensive home would meet our needs. More than adequate. Unfortunately, our current area has a high RE inventory and we are entering a season of slow home sales.

 

As for Italy, I think you and I are close to the same age, Mariann, and I *totally* get your "not gettin' any younger" vibe. Two small and serviceable homes in places I want to be, while I'm still young and fit enough to enjoy 'em both??? I dare say there'd be no grass growing under my feet on this issue (or for you dear Mariann, the forsythia).

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I only read the first page and I am the only one who wouldn't do it. ;) First of all, I hate to travel. I love it when I'm there but I hate the before and after. I hate to fly.

 

Aren't your kids going to be going into school next year? If so, when would you go? For the summer? Would dh be able to take off and join you? Would you be ok with going there for a week at a time during school vacations?

 

I personally would choose what's best for our everyday living. If, for your family, the dh and kids would prefer a smaller home and time in Italy, then you have your answer. But if you're only going to go for a short vacation, why not rent?

 

And if you don't want to clean a large home, don't. Hire out (an inconvenience I'd never do, I watched my mother with this situation and how she tried to make it work for her.) or buy a smaller home that you'll be comfortable with. And, take your age into consideration for that! Do you want to be moving again in a few years, or slaving away cleaning a large home in your 60's?

 

It does sound like your hearts desire is to have regular time in Italy.....

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I'm a no. I have found owning vacation homes to be a $ and time drain. Not worth it. I prefer to just rent when I want to go. Plus, I tend to like to go to different places. When I own a vacation home, I feel like that is where I have to go when we have time. Then, when you get there, you end up working on upkeep issues the entire time and not getting to relax.

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Getting a place in Italy sounds like a wonderful dream, and I'd say 'Yes!' to the dream.

Practically, however, my answer would depend on a number of questions:

How often do you go to Italy now? How long are you able to stay on each visit? Do you know the region that you are going to buy in well? Do you speak the language? Know the local property laws? Know the language well enough to read contracts - or have a trusted person who can help you through all the financial and legals stuff? Is there a trusted person who would keep an eye on the property for you?

 

If you're only going to go occassionaly, I'd really consider some other options to have the Italian experience and vacation lifestyle.

As a previous poster said, owning a vacation home is a money and time drain. Especially one that is so far away. For me, it would really have to be in a place that I love going back to and that would be worth the hassle.

 

If you can't go very often, then I'd certainly still consider getting a smaller, comfortable house in the town you love (for all the reasons previously stated) and then decide how best to invest the additional funds available to get the Italian experience, but without the 'house on another continent' hassle factor.

 

If I were making the decision here, I'd opt for a smaller house and then opt to buy a rental property. I'd use the income to make the Italian experience happen. But that would be because my own answers to my initial questions would be that I don't have the experience, language ability or support to buy in Italy. Nor do we have enough vacationt time. But I do have some knowledge of the local property market and would know what to buy as an entry level rental property in our area. The income would make the Italian experience possible, but be more flexible for the future.

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My 'could' and 'would' in 'could/would you do this?' has to do with 'could' you and 'would' you decide on the already renovated, move in condition smaller, less expensive home and be okay with it b/c the place in Italy (or wherever you want to go) was going to happen much sooner and you would have it to enjoy sooner.

 

 

Absolutely. We have faced a similar sort of situation - although for different reasons. We've moved country, selling our house. We've chosen to buy a small house in an area that's not very prestigious while maintaining an investment for the moment (the profits from our house sale were invested before the financial crisis).

 

That said, it does take some adjustment in perspective to scale back your "obvious" lifestyle - the one that people see (they won't see your house in Italy, and don't tell 'em, or they'll want to visit!). I'd liken it to the adjustment you need to make when moving from the working world to full-time parenting - you need to focus more on your own goals and values, and set aside your awareness of what others think.

 

I'm not sure that I've been clear, either. We've always lived pretty much according to our own goals, but it's hard not be aware of how the world judges status.

 

Nikki

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Our vacation home became frustrating for my father as we became older. He couldn't understand, or tolerate, our desire to play with our sports teams and go to birthday parties, or even church activities. He thought that every moment of his spare time should be spent with all of us at the vacation home.

 

Now that I'm a parent, I can see his side much easier, but I still wouldn't ask my children to give up everything to "get our money's worth," as he put it!

 

I'm sure you would never go to this extreme, and there are many people on this board that seem to view dc activites as fleeting and not a true consideration, but I remember you mentioning that your dd plays lacrosse.

 

It's a hard decision and we have gone back and forth ourselves. (Our decision was only over a tiny beach condo!)

 

I'm rambling...sorry! I would try to pretend I had purchased for about a year by renting as visiting as often as I could. Then you would know if you would use it enough to make it economically feasible.

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YES!

 

We have a 3200 sq ft home for 3 people, and our child (DD, 17) is at home for her last year--this year. Next year she goes to "away" college, wherever that may be.

 

Hubby is 63 and I am 49 and we are so tired of keeping up the maintenance of this house, which is in a gated community with very strict standards. The only problem is that we live in Florida and the real estate bubble burst, and our home is now worth half of what it was 2 years ago. Thankfully we have no mortgage, but still...

 

The big question for us is whether to buy a small 3BR/2BA ranch for the 2 of us @ $150K or whether to buy a similarly-sized (and priced) condo.

 

Regardless of what we do, our intent is to live in the smaller home seasonally and spend part of the year in a central Mexico, like San Miguel de Allende http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/mexico-magico/1.

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Regardless of what we do, our intent is to live in the smaller home seasonally and spend part of the year in a central Mexico, like San Miguel de Allende http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/mexico-magico/1.

 

Have you met or talked with any of the U.S. expats who live there? I have to ask because you would likely have spoken with Mike, the retired MD who lives there. You'll know him by the initials he throws around. :D He's a character but very helpful.

 

***************

 

Mariann, I would suggest you speak with people who've made a similar choice. If you go to the Fodor's Lounge or European forums, you can find people who have moved to Italy. I know one woman was in the process of it a few months ago, but she was moving there for good. Another woman and her husband have moved to multiple countries, and they have no regrets. You need to get the nitty-gritty details.

 

We cannot do anything just yet because my husband has to continue working a few more years until he turns 56 when he can officially retire; however, he probably won't retire until he's 62.

 

Once our youngest finishes high school -- only five years -- we plan on keeping this house and renting an apartment in the city (Chicago). That way, dh has a shorter commute, and we can partake in all the fun stuff the city offers.

 

In the meantime, we've downsized to a small home and continue to travel ~ for research purposes, of course! (Hmm... shouldn't that be a tax write-off?) This year, we'll be going to Hawaii and later England. We love to travel.

 

Eventually, both of us want to live near a beach, possibly Hawaii, which is cheaper than where I live now. The drawback would be that I would miss my kiddos too much! I don't know if I could be away from them full-time. Two or three months a year? Maybe...

 

Good luck! Sounds like fun. :)

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