What's the correct etiquette...

[justamouse]

I am having a pool party for my son this weekend. He's turning 11 and I invited 4 boys, then we're having a larger family party later in the afternoon/evening.

 

Some parents are telling me they will be staying with their child (and these are parents and children I have over ALL THE TIME). This is making me FURIOUS because now I have to plan for that much more food (on top of having the second party). The parents weren't invited, the kids were. If I received an invitation where I felt uncomfortable for my child to stay-for whatever reason, I would decline the invitation, give my reason and give the hostess an opportunity to invite me, also.

 

What would you do?

Edited August 12, 2010 by justamouse

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Did you make it clear on the invitation that it was a kids only party? I would just plan to feed the kids and not worry about the adults.

[JoyfulMama]

For a pool party of active 11yo boys I would be more comfortable having a few extra sets of eyes. Are you talking about 5 more people? I'd just make it work. Cut something out, make a few more of the main dish, and work with it.

 

 

Note, my brother asked why we weren't having a pool party birthday party for one of ours. I don't want to have that huge responsibility of the kids in the water. I always require a responsible person be present for any additional children in our pool. I told him he can swim once the child-sized guests are gone.

[justamouse]

Yup, kids only. I addressed the invitations to the young men.

 

I don't know if I can not feed a person who comes to my house....

[justamouse]

For a pool party of active 11yo boys I would be more comfortable having a few extra sets of eyes. Are you talking about 5 more people? I'd just make it work. Cut something out, make a few more of the main dish, and work with it.

 

 

Note, my brother asked why we weren't having a pool party birthday party for one of ours. I don't want to have that huge responsibility of the kids in the water. I always require a responsible person be present for any additional children in our pool. I told him he can swim once the child-sized guests are gone.

 

it IS a huge responsibility, which is why there are only 4 boys attending. Plus my oldest daughter watching and myself and husband.

[athena1277]

I don't know what's "proper", but here's what I would do. First, since they are over so much, they probably didn't realize they were not invited with their kiddos. Second, keep the food to a minimum. Serve cake, ice cream and kool-ade. If it is already planned for lunchtime, serve hotdogs and chips. The kids won't mind and it won't be a major budget buster. Hope your son has a great birthday!

[Lolly]

I don't know what's "proper", but here's what I would do. First, since they are over so much, they probably didn't realize they were not invited with their kiddos. Second, keep the food to a minimum. Serve cake, ice cream and kool-ade. If it is already planned for lunchtime, serve hotdogs and chips. The kids won't mind and it won't be a major budget buster. Hope your son has a great birthday!

 

:iagree:This.

[Ester Maria]

The proper etiquette is NEVER to bring additional guests to the party you were invited to unless you specifically asked about it IN ADVANCE. Asked, not stated that there will be additional people.

 

If the invitations are aimed at children, it's assumed it's children only, unless we're talking about toddlers.

[VBoulden]

I think these parents probably just assume that they are invited to the party, even if their child's name is the only one on the invitation. It is customary where I live in Connecticut to send the invitation to the child or siblings you want to come to your kid's party, but actually mean that the whole family is invited. In fact, if parents don't come to a party and just drop their kids off, that's actually a real insult to the hostess.

 

At first, I actually thought you meant that the parents were planning to stay with their kids for the second party, the one just for your family, and I thought that WAS really rude... But, I assumed (like they probably have) that they were invited to the first one. :001_smile:

 

Also, you mentioned that it is a pool party. I think a pool involved makes your party a big liability for many parents. If you were having the party at the local skating rink, for example, many of those same parents might just leave like you want them to. What are the chances their kid will die if you turn your head for five minutes while they are skating and fall down? But, unless you are hiring a professional lifeguard, many parents will not feel comfortable enough to leave their kids in a pool setting without them... And asking them to be comfortable enough with you to let you oversee their kids while swimming may be too big of a thing to ask of them. Personally, I wouldn't let my kid go to a pool without me. Maybe that is how these parents feel.

 

I wouldn't stress about the food. I know you want to be polite, but offer what you can and if the food runs out... oh well. :001_smile:

[Melora in NC]

I don't know what's "proper", but here's what I would do. First, since they are over so much, they probably didn't realize they were not invited with their kiddos. Second, keep the food to a minimum. Serve cake, ice cream and kool-ade. If it is already planned for lunchtime, serve hotdogs and chips. The kids won't mind and it won't be a major budget buster. Hope your son has a great birthday!

 

:iagree:

[Chris in VA]

Sometimes I stayed with my dd because I felt the parents wanted me to--to help them. But I always asked--of course, that put the parents in the position of having to awkwardly say, "If you want to, of course you can stay!" Not one would say, "Oh no, I think we can handle it!" which is what I would have preferred (I hate parties...).

 

Maybe next time you can have the parties on separate days.

[justamouse]

The proper etiquette is NEVER to bring additional guests to the party you were invited to unless you specifically asked about it IN ADVANCE. Asked, not stated that there will be additional people.

 

If the invitations are aimed at children, it's assumed it's children only, unless we're talking about toddlers.

 

 

THANK you.

 

But now what do I do? And, I'm NEVER doing this again. If I wanted the parents to come, then I'd invite them.

[justamouse]

Sometimes I stayed with my dd because I felt the parents wanted me to--to help them. But I always asked--of course, that put the parents in the position of having to awkwardly say, "If you want to, of course you can stay!" Not one would say, "Oh no, I think we can handle it!" which is what I would have preferred (I hate parties...).

 

Maybe next time you can have the parties on separate days.

 

That's what I would do, too. And if I ever do this again, I will have them on separate days. The weird thing is, the one mother does her sons party the same way, and I NEVER stayed. I wouldn't imagine being such an imposition.

[Lolly]

THANK you.

 

But now what do I do? And, I'm NEVER doing this again. If I wanted the parents to come, then I'd invite them.

 

You have a choice. You can 1. explain to each parent that it was meant as a child only party and that you have plenty of supervision for the boys, 2.have ice water and cups available for the parents and carry on as if they were not there, or 3. provide something very cheap as food that everyone who shows up can partake of. For #3, you could use peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or hot dogs and chips as a meal or just stick with cake and ice cream alone. For drinks just have Kool-Aid or lemonade and water available.

[Danestress]

That's what I would do, too. And if I ever do this again, I will have them on separate days. The weird thing is, the one mother does her sons party the same way, and I NEVER stayed. I wouldn't imagine being such an imposition.

 

I agree with the general rule that those who are invited attend, and those who are not stay home. If your child's name is not on the wedding invitation, he isn't invited. Don't even ask - it just puts people in an awkward position.

 

But pools and children somehow makes this less firm for me. My children are really good swimmers. One swims six nights a week for 1 1/2 hours. He swam a 3 mile distance swim this summer.

 

Even so, I think a bunch of 11 year old boys are prone to foolishness, and parents can get busy and distracted when they are trying to conduct a party, serve food, and supervise. Tragedies often seem to happen on those "special occasions."

 

I can really understand a parent not wanting an 11 year old to attend without a parent being there, but not wanting to say so, not wanting to decline because they love your son and don't want to hurt his feelings or don't want to make you feel untrusted. I am not saying they handled this right, but everyone is in a tough position.

[goldberry]

Wow...it is so interesting to hear this point of view. My dd is 11. If these were 15 y/o and up we were talking about I could understand it. But at 11, I would feel really weird if I WEREN'T welcome. I am more likely to ASK, "can I just drop her off?" than I am to ask "are parents welcome". Although I can see from this thread it is best to ask either way!

 

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

 

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

 

Just giving you another point of view!

[VBoulden]

I didn't mean to sound so smug about the food... I sounded smug, didn't I? ;) I just meant that you should offer them something simple like someone else said... something like hot dogs and chips... or just cake and drinks.

 

I can't even tell you how many parties I've gone to WITH a full belly... only to have to eat to be polite. So I wouldn't stress about the food too much.

 

Good luck with this and I hope you have fun... Even if you have some extra "lifeguards" around the pool. :001_smile:

[NanceXToo]

Frankly, it's kind of odd to me that this situation would make a parent "furious." My daughter is nearly 10 and so far, I've always stayed at any party she's ever been invited to. Most parents I know at this stage do. We don't expect to be fed, and we wouldn't just help ourselves to food. If, on the other hand, the hosting mom insisted we help ourselves, that there was plenty there, then we'd eat. Otherwise it's a given that it's only the kids being fed at a kid's party.

 

If it were somehow worded or insinuated that parents were not welcome to stay, I'd feel kind of uncomfortable with that.

 

If you don't feel right not feeding them, it can't be much more than a few extra people, you could probably come up with something very simple and inexpensive. But you're not obligated to. I don't think you should make the parents feel unwelcome about hanging around with their children, though!

[springmama]

I agree with the general rule that those who are invited attend, and those who are not stay home. If your child's name is not on the wedding invitation, he isn't invited. Don't even ask - it just puts people in an awkward position.

 

But pools and children somehow makes this less firm for me. My children are really good swimmers. One swims six nights a week for 1 1/2 hours. He swam a 3 mile distance swim this summer.

 

Even so, I think a bunch of 11 year old boys are prone to foolishness, and parents can get busy and distracted when they are trying to conduct a party, serve food, and supervise. Tragedies often seem to happen on those "special occasions."

 

I can really understand a parent not wanting an 11 year old to attend without a parent being there, but not wanting to say so, not wanting to decline because they love your son and don't want to hurt his feelings or don't want to make you feel untrusted. I am not saying they handled this right, but everyone is in a tough position.

 

Wow...it is so interesting to hear this point of view. My dd is 11. If these were 15 y/o and up we were talking about I could understand it. But at 11, I would feel really weird if I WEREN'T welcome. I am more likely to ASK, "can I just drop her off?" than I am to ask "are parents welcome". Although I can see from this thread it is best to ask either way!

 

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

 

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

 

Just giving you another point of view!

 

Ditto both of these posts.

 

Also, I wanted to say, don't sweat the small stuff.

 

When one of my children gets an invitation to a birthday party, one parent always stays with the child, even if we just end up being a wallflower keeping an eye on our kid from a distance. Obviously we don't do this for my 16 year old, but at age 11 at a pool party I wouldn't just drop off and go. I wouldn't expect to be treated as a guest thoug. I'd just bring a bottle of water with me and chat with the other adults and/or help with the party.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

Wow...it is so interesting to hear this point of view. My dd is 11. If these were 15 y/o and up we were talking about I could understand it. But at 11, I would feel really weird if I WEREN'T welcome. I am more likely to ASK, "can I just drop her off?" than I am to ask "are parents welcome". Although I can see from this thread it is best to ask either way!

 

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

 

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

 

Just giving you another point of view!

 

:iagree: It always annoyed me when I tried to throw a little birthday party for my son and all the Moms just dropped their kids off and left. I always thought birthday parties should be renamed "babysitting parties.":lol:

 

Once my son got older, 14/15 maybe, I didn't hang around with him, but I guess I'll go on record as overprotective, because I just wouldn't drop off my son at a birthday party.

 

If someone insisted . . . honestly . . . I don't know . . . I'd probably just not let him go. Sometimes I'd ask, "I really need to run some errands, do you mind if I drop him off and pick him up later?" But this is only with a Mom I knew VERY well, and really not very often.

 

The thought is just so strange to me.

[MotherMayI]

Frankly, it's kind of odd to me that this situation would make a parent "furious." My daughter is nearly 10 and so far, I've always stayed at any party she's ever been invited to. Most parents I know at this stage do. We don't expect to be fed, and we wouldn't just help ourselves to food. If, on the other hand, the hosting mom insisted we help ourselves, that there was plenty there, then we'd eat. Otherwise it's a given that it's only the kids being fed at a kid's party.

 

If it were somehow worded or insinuated that parents were not welcome to stay, I'd feel kind of uncomfortable with that.

 

 

:iagree: To not stay would be unusual with friends that come to my home often. My oldest is 11 and although the invites to his last party were addressed to his friends- siblings and parents came. I generally plan to have more food than I need and we eat leftovers if it is not all gone after the party. If I want a party to be just the children (for example the movies, skating, lazer tag...things I have to pay per child for) I speak to the parents myself and tell them what our plans are and who the invite is directed to.

[Country Mouse]

Wow...it is so interesting to hear this point of view. My dd is 11. If these were 15 y/o and up we were talking about I could understand it. But at 11, I would feel really weird if I WEREN'T welcome. I am more likely to ASK, "can I just drop her off?" than I am to ask "are parents welcome". Although I can see from this thread it is best to ask either way!

 

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

 

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

 

Just giving you another point of view!

 

:iagree: Especially since it a pool party.

 

I stay with my ds when he goes to a birthday party but I don't expect to be fed. I hope none of his friends' parents have been furious when I stayed :blushing:.

[Lolosoli]

I'd ask them all to bring a dish to add to the meal! :)

[Amy loves Bud]

I am having a pool party for my son this weekend. He's turning 11 and I invited 4 boys, then we're having a larger family party later in the afternoon/evening.

 

Some parents are telling me they will be staying with their child (and these are parents and children I have over ALL THE TIME). This is making me FURIOUS because now I have to plan for that much more food (on top of having the second party). The parents weren't invited, the kids were. If I received an invitation where I felt uncomfortable for my child to stay-for whatever reason, I would decline the invitation, give my reason and give the hostess an opportunity to invite me, also.

 

What would you do?

 

Hey there, from a fellow mom hosting a pool party Saturday (and then another one next Saturday :svengo:).

 

I think at age 11 with a ratio of 5 children to 3 adults, I disagree with the others about the scary pool scenario.

 

However, I always lean on the side of if a parent is more comfortable staying, then that is great. They should absolutely do what they need to do.

 

That said, I would not feed the adults. They were not invited, so I would simply have some water available for them and call it good. Feed the kids what you were already planning to feed them. I doubt the parents expect more.

 

Then just enjoy having a few extra eyes on the pool.

[Gooblink]

Wow...it is so interesting to hear this point of view. My dd is 11. If these were 15 y/o and up we were talking about I could understand it. But at 11, I would feel really weird if I WEREN'T welcome. I am more likely to ASK, "can I just drop her off?" than I am to ask "are parents welcome". Although I can see from this thread it is best to ask either way!

 

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

 

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

 

Just giving you another point of view!

 

:iagree:Sure, for adults I agree etiquette dictates that the invitation lay out intended invitees...but for kids? And a pool party? I'd feel a bit offended to NOT be welcome to stay with my kid.

 

ETA: I do agree with those who say you should not feel obligated to feed the adults. I feel "staying" with my kids is different than being "included" in the party. I'd not expect to be fed.

[Ester Maria]

I agree with the general rule that those who are invited attend, and those who are not stay home. If your child's name is not on the wedding invitation, he isn't invited. Don't even ask - it just puts people in an awkward position.

But - exactly!

 

That's the whole point - if an occasion is "grand" enough to have its written invitation, the purpose of it is twofold: to invite whoever is invited AND to politely, but firmly, be precise about who are invited ones and who are not. That is, not only to invite, but also to un-invite, if you get what I mean. That's an ideal way to prevent confusion and potentially coming across as blunt or rude if it were done orally, and that way you prevent that siblings, parents and "the whole of extended family" comes to what was supposed to be, say, a rather intimate party of five people.

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

No, I meant it quite literally.

You can probably trace it down to "cultural differences", since in America you have this almost obsessive oversupervision of kids. In Italy, even today, it's quite customary that from an early school age children are the only ones on children parties. Maybe mom's best friend or two chat with mom and is there as an additional responsible adult in case there's a lot of kids (and it might as well happen that that's somebody's mother - but not necessarily!), but extended parties that include invitants' siblings or parents are really not common. For what I know, I've been dropping kids off to children gatherings from about the age of 6-7. Maybe stayed for a short coffee when dropping them or when coming to pick them up, but that's about it, and with tweens and teens not even that.

 

(Need I say that I'm often considered an irresponsible mother here for just dropping them off and not staying to babysit them? :D)

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

But that's the whole point of the practice of explicit written invitations - that one doesn't have to be blunt, but only "suggest" things nicely.

 

'Cause seriously, if a parent comes with each child, you have twice as many guests as "supposed". It's an additional space (sometimes it does actually matter), additional cost (you surely won't let your guests sit without opening a bottle of wine, making coffee/tea, offering cookies or whatever you offer), additional nerves and "forced" interaction for you (you surely won't let your guests sit alone without at least symbolic presence of yours or some way of showing them respect, tiring duty of small talk, etc.), and a significant change in the atmosphere for kids (since there will usually be adults-kids interaction as well). So I fully get OP's frustration - it's a different party if we're talking about additional adult guests there.

 

IMO (and I'm just a crazy expat so I might not "get" things) children's parties and children+parents' parties aren't the same thing. If OP wanted to party with parents while kids partied together (cause that's often great, especially if you happen to be friends with your kids' friends' parents, and I've been to more than one such "double party"), she would have made sure to emphasize that, no? :confused:

 

Declining the party if you dislike its "conditions", of course, is always an option. I also have reservations about dropping off kids sometimes, but it usually involves to homes I don't know rather well.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Ester Maria

[Ester Maria]

ETA: I do agree with those who say you should not feel obligated to feed the adults. I feel "staying" with my kids is different than being "included" in the party. I'd not expect to be fed.

Personally, I never "sent the parents away" when those situations were happening to me. :)

With time I guess that I earned their trust enough to just drop off kids (since I don't really have those situations lately, but we very rarely invite other children anyway)... or I just made them uncomfortable with treating them as real, actual guests. :D

 

I actually disagree with those who say that you shouldn't feel obligated to feed the adults - but once more, it's a totally "cultural" disagreement. :) I just cannot fathom not treating a guest as a guest - while I might not pull out my best wine for such an occasion, not honoring my guests is not an option here. :)

[OrganicAnn]

My DD is younger (6 yo), but we always assume that a parent can stay at the party, but that you don't need to feed or entertain us. Especially a pool party were my child might not be as good a swimmer as others.

 

I would feel weird about parents who would get upset that I was staying, but then again my daughter is younger. I don't what we'd do at age 11.

 

Also if I have to drive a distance to get the kid there and I don't know the area well and don't have any errands to run in the area within the time, then I'd just be sitting in a hot car in front of their house waiting.

 

And every birthday party invitation that my DD has ever received beginning at around age 1 YO only had her name on them. So based on the name on the invitation, she was the only one invited - so I really don't think that is a good indicators with kids invitations.

[zaichiki]

Culturally, in my Northeastern American experience, homeschooled children often come to parties with siblings and/or parents. Kids who attend school are often dropped off, even for playdates.

 

I've been to a ton of kids' birthday parties. Unless it's a family party, the parents hang out and pretty much avoid eating. The food is usually "kid friendly" and not meant for the adults. (At kid parties I've given I've even had to nicely insist that the adults are welcome to eat the cake.) They generally avoid eating the party food.

 

If you're in America, I wouldn't worry about feeding the parents who come to the party. Chances are that they just want to supervise their kids and won't eat anything anyway.

Edited August 12, 2010 by zaichiki

[Gooblink]

Personally, I never "sent the parents away" when those situations were happening to me. :)

With time I guess that I earned their trust enough to just drop off kids (since I don't really have those situations lately, but we very rarely invite other children anyway)... or I just made them uncomfortable with treating them as real, actual guests. :D

 

I actually disagree with those who say that you shouldn't feel obligated to feed the adults - but once more, it's a totally "cultural" disagreement. :) I just cannot fathom not treating a guest as a guest - while I might not pull out my best wine for such an occasion, not honoring my guests is not an option here. :)

 

OK, in the interest of full disclosure, as a host I would feel obligated to feed any guests, invited or not. As a guest, I would not expect it. :tongue_smilie:

[amydavis]

Frankly, it's kind of odd to me that this situation would make a parent "furious." My daughter is nearly 10 and so far, I've always stayed at any party she's ever been invited to. Most parents I know at this stage do. We don't expect to be fed, and we wouldn't just help ourselves to food. If, on the other hand, the hosting mom insisted we help ourselves, that there was plenty there, then we'd eat. Otherwise it's a given that it's only the kids being fed at a kid's party.

 

If it were somehow worded or insinuated that parents were not welcome to stay, I'd feel kind of uncomfortable with that.

 

If you don't feel right not feeding them, it can't be much more than a few extra people, you could probably come up with something very simple and inexpensive. But you're not obligated to. I don't think you should make the parents feel unwelcome about hanging around with their children, though!

 

:iagree:

This is all really strange to me. In my circles, you're more likely to be "talked about" if you're one of the parents that just drops your child and assumes that someone else will be responsible for them.

 

I've certainly had parties where a parent would ask, "Is it okay if I run an errand?" and I've always said that it was fine (and it was), but I appreciated being asked. There is so much involved, even in a simple party, with making sure of the food, the timing of any games or opening of gifts, that I would never assume the hostess would also provide childcare.

Granted, they are not toddlers, but still - they are minors. Also, the invitation is typically addressed to the child, yes, because they are the birthday child's friend - but they are a minor, which in our circles indicates a need for a parent unless it's been arranged or spoken of. I know that it is rude to show up with siblings if it is a party where head-count is important, such as Chuck E. Cheese (because the birthday child's parents would take on extra cost), but there is not an extra cost for the parents, they are simply there as their child's chaperone, so to speak. I've never encountered anyone finding a parent staying as rude.

 

And I would feel very strange if I were made to feel unwelcome at a party my children had been invited to. I do not expect to be fed. But most hostesses will let you know that there are plenty of chips, or to please get a soda, etc. When I have a party, I typically aim to do it at a time when I can just do cake and ice cream, not a full meal. Then I will put out chips, veggies and dip, pretzels - just basic inexpensive munchies for the children and adults.

 

And as an extra note, if I were close to you, and my children played there often, that is actually more of a reason that I would assume I was fine to be there. I would obviously have a relationship with the birthday child and his parents. I would honestly find it bizarre to discover that I wasn't welcome.

[justamouse]

Frankly, it's kind of odd to me that this situation would make a parent "furious." My daughter is nearly 10 and so far, I've always stayed at any party she's ever been invited to.

 

But now I'm feeding 8 more people instead of the 4 extra boys. And 4 extra Adults. That takes it from 3 pizzas to 6 pizzas. It DOUBLES the size of the party.

 

 

You can probably trace it down to "cultural differences", since in America you have this almost obsessive oversupervision of kids. In Italy, even today, it's quite customary that from an early school age children are the only ones on children parties. Maybe mom's best friend or two chat with mom and is there as an additional responsible adult in case there's a lot of kids (and it might as well happen that that's somebody's mother - but not necessarily!), but extended parties that include invitants' siblings or parents are really not common. For what I know, I've been dropping kids off to children gatherings from about the age of 6-7. Maybe stayed for a short coffee when dropping them or when coming to pick them up, but that's about it, and with tweens and teens not even that.

 

(Need I say that I'm often considered an irresponsible mother here for just dropping them off and not staying to babysit them? :D)

But that's the whole point of the practice of explicit written invitations - that one doesn't have to be blunt, but only "suggest" things nicely.

 

'Cause seriously, if a parent comes with each child, you have twice as many guests as "supposed". It's an additional space (sometimes it does actually matter), additional cost (you surely won't let your guests sit without opening a bottle of wine, making coffee/tea, offering cookies or whatever you offer), additional nerves and "forced" interaction for you (you surely won't let your guests sit alone without at least symbolic presence of yours or some way of showing them respect, tiring duty of small talk, etc.), and a significant change in the atmosphere for kids (since there will usually be adults-kids interaction as well). So I fully get OP's frustration - it's a different party if we're talking about additional adult guests there.

 

 

Exactly. I've always dropped my kids off at the party because 1. I'm not invited, 2. it's rude of me to expect the hostess to also feed me when she's prepared for a certain # of people. I wouldn't want to put her in the awkward position of having to SAY I wasn't invited (which, to be polite she can't, which is the problem I'm facing). If I didn't know the parents at all, if they were passing aquaintences, I would decline the invitation. If they were more than aqaintences, and I knew other children going, I would allow it.

 

 

 

 

I actually disagree with those who say that you shouldn't feel obligated to feed the adults - but once more, it's a totally "cultural" disagreement. :) I just cannot fathom not treating a guest as a guest - while I might not pull out my best wine for such an occasion, not honoring my guests is not an option here. :)

 

:iagree: If a person is at my house when a meal is being served, it would be extremely rude of me to not prepare food for the person (my Italian husband would be flipping MORTIFIED, and my muddy own self would be, also, because that's the way I was raised). They are, de facto, a guest at the party. That is the etiquette of being a hostess. I expect the guest to know their boundaries, so I can function within mine as hostess. I don't know, I'm flummoxed. I was taught these things at such an early age.

 

Yes, these people are here often, but I would not invite them, or her family to my family party that evening. We are not that close. That party is for intimate friends/family (of my husband and mine), and it would disturb the flow of the party to have there. Would I make those people feel unwelcome in my home? Absolutely not. They would be a guest. That said, knowing the etiquette of being a guest goes a long way to smooth relationships.

Edited August 13, 2010 by justamouse

[Ellie]

The boys were invited; their parents were not. It is presumptuous for any parents to assume they may stay. I would be more sympathetic if someone offered to stay *and help,* but just to stay...no. The rule of thumb is that only the person whose name is on the invitation is the one who is actually invited. This is true of *everything,* even when people don't understand that this is so. The hostess has figured out expenses and how much food she'll need and everything; to have two or three times that number of guests would surely overwhelm her budget and her plans, KWIM?

 

If anyone says she's staying, you could say something like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I've only planned food and drinks and whatnot for the birthday boy and the friends he's invited," and wait to see what she says. It is hoped that she'll say she'll come back to pick up little Orkie instead of sitting poolside and waiting. If she insists on staying, then of course she must be fed, but she should not expect to stay. Really.

 

If this were a party for a bunch of toddlers, then of course parents would be invited and needed. These are older dc, who should be self-sustaining (within the parameters of its being a *pool* party, of course, something which I'm sure the OP has thought about).

 

ETA: FTR, Miss Manners says it's acceptable to greet parents at the door and say, "Oh, you can pick up Orkie at 4. No, he'll be fine, really. See you later."

Edited August 13, 2010 by Ellie

[Lolly]

You mean that BOTH parents are coming with the invited guest? :svengo: Wow. Just wow.:svengo:

 

eta: Oh, wait, you said 8 more instead of 4 more(just boys). My bad. I thought you meant 8 extras at the party.

[justamouse]

You mean that BOTH parents are coming with the invited guest? :svengo: Wow. Just wow.:svengo:

 

eta: Oh, wait, you said 8 more instead of 4 more(just boys). My bad. I thought you meant 8 extras at the party.

 

I kept the amount small because it IS a pool party and I am responsible. I felt 5 eleven year old boys was the most one adult could handle (in case my husband daughter and I were going in and out)

 

hoo wait, it gets better-one parent broadly hinted at her whole FAMILY coming because what would they do with little brother while older brother was at the party? I SO did not extend the invitation. It's for my one son, not him and his brother. It's to celebrate HIM and make him feel special, not to be a pool day for the one family.

Edited August 13, 2010 by justamouse

[Ester Maria]

I find this thread totally fascinating, honestly. :) You guys always explain things to me that are to you probably too obvious to talk about, but to me totally new and that I don't understand because of the burden of my own culture where things are much different.

 

I just never felt there is an actual need that a children's party be babysat and/or "moderated" by a whole group of adults. :confused: To ensure there is an adult or a few (the latter especially if the group of kids is somewhat larger) makes perfect sense, I agree, but even then, in my mind, those adults are there basically for for a case of an emergency and security issues, not really to deal with the kids or even keep an active eye on them (kids that aren't school age yet being exceptions). Mothers usually entertain themselves in a separate room, with kids often out of sight, being occasionally checked. Kids know where the adults are in case something happens, but otherwise, they're pretty much on their own.

 

Regarding the fact they're minors, I never really viewed it in that light honestly. I don't consider it necessary to be physically next to my child 24/7 - both I and DC would feel 'choked' that way. With older teens who are still technically minors, I don't think you even need an adult with them since they're "equipped" for cases of emergency (able to quickly react, call important people, etc.). I don't recall we even had birthday parties in lycee, I certainly didn't, somewhere about the age of 14-15 most of birthdays slowly shifted towards being celebrated by going out somewhere together (cinema, theatre, restaurant, then a caffe later or a walk in the city etc.) rather than being in someone's house. Without parents, of course.

 

So the whole notion that a parent somehow "should" be present around kids is quite new to me, I'm surprised to read some of you basically consider it a duty to be there. Weird, it really never occurred me one might think it that way.

 

I also don't get siblings thing, though I see it around here a lot. "By us", unless both siblings happen to be active friends of the child in question, only the one that's a friend is invited and only that one comes, even if siblings are close in age. Those that aren't close in age are never brought to a party anyway - I can't imagine a case of a 7 y.o. on a 13 y.o.'s birthday party as a sibling of an invited child.

 

It seems "circular" to me now - you have need for more adults because it's quite automatized that more kids come than planned, and then siblings come because more adults are there, etc. :D I personally prefer smaller, more intimate gatherings.

 

Thanks for enlightening me a bit of how you view it, all of you. :)

[KidsHappen]

Well, I wish you lived closer to me as I have a few extra pizzas in the fridge right now. My dd had her end of summer/back to school party last Saturday. Thirty people said they were attending but only 15 showed up. I could have bought half as many pizzas. Plus I now have enough soda and chips to last at least a month.

[AppleGreen]

Yes, from an etiquette stand point you are correct, the invite is for the boys only, BUT I think you threw in the added dynamic of the pool. Water is just different and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable just dropping my child off at someone's house for a pool party. I wouldn't feel comfortable at the community pool with lifeguards either and have stayed with my children. I have also happily passed on cake and food, I am there to keep my children safe, not for the food. I don't feel comfortable w/ other people taking my children swimming.

 

No, they shouldn't bring other children or guests-that's rude. Yes, sometimes people are thoughtless and inconsiderate. Sure it is easier if everyone dropped their kid off, but surely w/ the type of party you are hosting you can understand why there may be some hesitation?

 

I do hope the party is a wonderful celebration for your son.

[Caraway]

Frankly, it's kind of odd to me that this situation would make a parent "furious."

 

:iagree:

 

 

Really? FURIOUS?!?! In all caps? I can understand (perhaps) irritated - but FURIOUS? Because adults want to watch their children, and celebrate your son's birthday??? :confused:

 

Could you not just view this as a friendly thing that they are doing? Instead of being so.... angry. Serve pizza bagels. Or tell a close friend that you are feeling overwhelmed and need help with some extra food or help.

[Ester Maria]

Water is just different

But why? :confused: I realize she must keep kids down to a "decent" number for the sake of convenience, but other than that, what's essentially different?

 

Don't you think, at age 11 (!), that even other kids will be able to react quickly in case of, I don't know, a kid getting a muscle spasm while swimming? Also, there IS an adult to ensure the general safety level and quick reaction if needed.

 

I mean, what would fundamentally change - other than kids' enjoyment of the party with all those adults looking at them all the time - if in such a situation you'd have a group of adults there? And what can such a group possibly prevent if, cv''s, something does happen? Things that happen happen within seconds anyway - and when they happen, people will react and help, regardless of whether there are 5 or 10 people, right?

 

Maybe it's because I have confident swimmers, but I really don't get what's the fuss about the pool. I'd be more afraid with a group of kids alone in the actual sea (with the added danger of sea urchins and such stuff, possibly dangerous stones, kids jumping into water that might not be deep enough if they don't know the territory, unknown people on the beach, the danger of their things being stolen, etc.), but by early teens, IMO, even that should be normal if all kids are swimmers, responsible and not on some deserted beach in the middle of nowhere should something, God forbid, happen.

 

I understand that everybody worries about their children, but at times I really get an impression that way too many people nowadays are taking it too far. We're handicapping our kids with such an approach rather than helping them.

[Pretty in Pink]

Well, I agree w/ Ester Maria in theory. The parents have breached etiquette by inviting themselves to the party (and in one case, inviting their entire family...odd). It would have been more appropriate to just speak up if they were uncomfortable about dropping their child off at a pool party.

 

But, I've learned to ask for clarification on invites because on more than one occassion I've been surprised to find that the parents expected me to stay (and we're not talking toddlers here, I am talking about 9, 10, and 11yo children). Even in this thread people are saying that they 1) prefer to stay, 2) would stay because it's a pool party, 3) are expected to stay (as an unspoken rule amongst their circle), or 4) don't mind dropping off. It's a wide range of expectations.

 

What's done is done, in any case. I think your ds is fortunate to have friends that wish to share his bday with him. I do not think you are obligated to do anything more in the way of entertaining, but were it me I would suck it up for one afternoon, make some extra food, and set up an adult seating area near the kids. Maybe your guests will entertain one another and you won't have to occupy yourself with small talk all afternoon. Besides, it sounds like it's a short party anyway, so at least it will be over sooner rather than later. :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

The last couple of invites we've received for children's parties have stated "this is a drop-off party". It made things very clear and simple.

[Danestress]

 

I think at age 11 with a ratio of 5 children to 3 adults, I disagree with the others about the scary pool scenario.

 

 

 

I think it was just two adults and a teenager.

 

Since the OP also has three or four children younger than the birthday boy, perhaps the parents of the invited children don't really know whether there will be 5 kids or 9. Come to think of it, they might not actually know how many were invited to begin with and are imagining 20, lol.

 

Even so, I understand feeling like the parents have to trust, at some point, that the hostess is a responsible person.

[Mom0012]

Wow...it is so interesting to hear this point of view. My dd is 11. If these were 15 y/o and up we were talking about I could understand it. But at 11, I would feel really weird if I WEREN'T welcome. I am more likely to ASK, "can I just drop her off?" than I am to ask "are parents welcome". Although I can see from this thread it is best to ask either way!

 

I know there are parents who routinely just "drop off" the kids. But I know plenty of parents of kids older than toddlers who would never do that. I'm sure it was more of a misunderstanding than an intended rudeness.

 

To be honest, if I was told specifically that parents weren't welcome, I would seriously consider whether or not I would accept the invitation.

 

Just giving you another point of view!

 

Where I live, it seems the expectation is to just drop the child off for the party starting around age 6. I have one friend who had the opposite expectation, but it was never clear to me on the invitation that parents were invited.

 

I can see being a little worried about just dropping off for a pool party unless those boys swim over there frequently without the parents at other times.

 

Lisa

[Natalieclare]

Once I receive an invite I now ask, "Is this a drop-off party or a parent party?" Works for me.

[NorthwestMom]

:iagree:

 

 

Really? FURIOUS?!?! In all caps? I can understand (perhaps) irritated - but FURIOUS? Because adults want to watch their children, and celebrate your son's birthday??? :confused:

 

Could you not just view this as a friendly thing that they are doing? Instead of being so.... angry. Serve pizza bagels. Or tell a close friend that you are feeling overwhelmed and need help with some extra food or help.

 

:iagree:

[AppleGreen]

But why? :confused: I realize she must keep kids down to a "decent" number for the sake of convenience, but other than that, what's essentially different?

 

My brother had a kid in his graduating class who drowned the night before graduation. These were high school kids supervised, in the middle of the day. They weren't "horsing around", they were hanging out. Nobody noticed. Things happen fast, drowning in particular. My kids' swimming teacher and I were just talking about this earlier this week. Particularly the drop off parties at the pool. I was telling her how I sometimes feel like maybe I am too protective and she said she doesn't drop her 11 year old off for swimming parties. That made an impression me coming from a life guard.

 

 

I understand that everybody worries about their children, but at times I really get an impression that way too many people nowadays are taking it too far. We're handicapping our kids with such an approach rather than helping them.

 

Sure and some people (maybe me!) are taking it too far. I actually think my kids have a lot of freedom and I do drop them off at parties and they play at friends' houses (w/o me present) often. For me water is just different. The potential for things going wrong is fast. I can certainly understand why there may be some hesitation on the parents' end w/ just dropping off at a pool party. My kids ride in their booster seats much longer than anyone else-much to my 9.5 year old's chagrin, but I have let him ride down to the library on his bike(about 3 blocks from our house involving a couple of road crossings). It is all a calculated risk in which I weigh safety vs. potential injury. Water happens to be one that ranks high for me. I think if you have confidence in your children's swimming ability and water doesn't raise any red flags for you, cool. But, I can certainly understand a parent not following etiquette at such a party and am saying *for me* a pool party is one that I would not feel comfortable just dropping off my child.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Personally, I wouldn't let my kid go to a pool without me. Maybe that is how these parents feel.

:iagree:

[mamatanya]

I tried to resist replying to this thread with my story, but after walking away from my computer, I felt that I should tell my story. I will try to keep it short.

 

4 Springs breaks ago, I met my cousin at her new house. She had just closed on it that very day and had not even moved into the house yet. Her pool was a beautiful sparkling salt water pool. It was clean and warm. Instead of stopping off at the local store to buy water wings and to head to the beach as we originally planned, we swam in her pool. Seven kids, six swimming, one in my lap. 3 adults. Myself and 2 others that I would trust with my life or the life or my children and I still do. I counted heads constantly. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7......1,2,3,4,5,6,7........I was terrifed with so many kids in the pool that something could happen. I just had a "feeling" and I should have listened to it.

 

My oldest son walked up to me and said that he was not feeling well. He looked sickly so I felt his head. He was fevered. My attention was diverted from the pool for what seemed like just seconds. My aunt and cousin were also watching the pool but I asked them to feel my son's head. Now, for at least 15 seconds, all eyes were off of the pool. Within what seemed like a minute of my son coming to me, my cousins daughter asks if my little girl (had just turned 5) knew how to swim. She was in the center of the pool in a perfect swim pose beneath the water. Panic hit me immediately. My daughter had drowned. I panicked, I had a baby in my lap. My aunt jumped in the water to pull my daughter out, my cousin jumped in to help her. They got her to the edge of the pool where I pulled her out. She tried to breath, it sounded like an awful start of a gurgle that never continued. Her lips were blue, her body as limp as a doll. I pleaded to God while screaming in my head, NO! PLEASE GOD NO!!! My cousin started CPR. My daughter started throwing up........we took her to the ER. They ran tests and said that she was fine, but that they wanted to keep her overnight for observation. We chose not to stay overnight since that were not willing to put us in a room or to feed my daughter. We left. It ends up that we were waiting for DCF to show up. Oooppps, they should have told me when I told them I was leaving.

 

We had a doctor come to my cousin's house. Her removed my daughters IV drip and discharged her from the hospital that she had been treated in. Even so,,,,,the next day I find out that there is a warrant out for my arrest and that they wanted to put an AMBER alert out for my daughter, but did not have a car description for me. (I was in another state).

 

They warrant was eventually dropped, but DCF now owns me and my children. ....anyway........... my point being.. This was the hardest time in my life.

 

I would not feel comfortable dropping my child off at anyones house for a pool party ( a casual swim with just one of two other kids might not be so bad, but I would not be comfortable with a party), even if I trusted the parent. I trust my children's lives with me more than I would trust them with anyone, but look what happened while under my supervision.

 

Mistakes happen..........they are not planned............otherwise they would probably be prevented.

 

Do these parents know that there are only four boys total at the party? Have you told them in a subtle manner that they are allowed to drop off if they need to run errands?

 

I wish your party well and hope that it is a fun day for everyone involved. I have often found that sometimes I dread something so much but after the fact, I usually am very pleased and happy.

[kokotg]

The pool would make me nervous, but more than that it would just be outside the norm in my social group for parents not to be expected or at least welcome to stay at a kid's birthday party. Just because the parents would be MY friends, and, well, that's just how it is. So it wouldn't occur to me to NOT invite parents to my kids' parties. But, like I said, that's just the social convention in my group of friends. If it weren't, my expectations would be different. Have the kids you've invited had their own drop off parties in the past, or have they had parties where the parents are expected to stay?