What would you do if ...

[natalie]

What would you do if your almost 13 year old got something out of the freezer and neglected to shut the door properly - for the second time?

 

 

The first time this happened ds was helping put groceries away and didn't shut the door properly. The cost of the food that couldn't be salvaged was approximately $300. He didn't get in trouble; the freezer was quite full so he might have had some difficulty and we hadn't discussed previously how important it was to make sure that the door was shut.

 

What we did was:

 

--explain the importance of shutting the door properly

 

--dicussed food safety and why some foods had to be discarded

 

--talked about the cost of the food that was discarded and converted that dollar amount into examples he could understand

 

--showed him how to be certain the door was completely shut

 

--told him if he wasn't certain or if he was having trouble fitting something in to let one of us know

 

--put him on "freezer probation" :tongue_smilie:for a couple months - meaning that at first one of us went with him when he went down to get something; after a period of time that changed to us going to the basement when he was done to double check; after another period of time, we continued to check without him knowing that we were doing so

 

--now when he comes back up we ask him if he remembered to shut the door securely

 

 

Fast forward nine months - freezer was left open again. This time the cost of the discarded food was over $600!!

 

Most disturbing was the manner in which it was discovered. I sent ds down to basement this morning to get a box of something. He set it on the counter, but I didn't get to it for a few minutes. When I did, I noticed it was wet in a few small spots, as if ice had melted.

 

I asked ds if the freezer was shut when he first went down -- "yes".

 

I sent him back down because he brought up the wrong box. He brings up another box. This is wetter than the first, with chunks of melting ice on it. The freezer is frost-free, so this should not happen. I ask ds if the freezer was shut -- "yes".

 

I decide to go down to basement because something doesn't seem right. Ds goes with me -- Are you sure the freezer was shut -- "yes".

 

As I approach the freezer, ds finally breaks down and admits the freezer had not been shut properly.

 

 

He was careless. The item that kept the door from closing had 6 inches of empty space behind it.

 

He lied repeatedly.

 

It's a huge amount of money.

 

It used up a large amount of time (which I am woefully short of) to clean up the mess; also some of the food that had to be discarded was already semi-prepared (e.g. chicken cooked, shredded, and seasoned for tacos).

 

We could have all gotten really sick I hadn't questioned what he told me.

 

 

 

How would you deal with this?

[claire up north]

I sense that perhaps you are looking for a stronger punishment than I would give, but I thought I'd share my likely reaction anyway.

 

I'd be mad.

 

Dear irresponsible son would have to take out everything from the freezer, inspect it, discard what was ruined, wipe down whole freezer and then organize and return everything. While this was going on, I'd likely repeat much of the stuff I said the first time he did it.

 

If some of it could be salvaged if cooked immediately, then dear irresponsible son would be right there along with me in the kitchen til it was done.

 

Then, we'd make a posted to put on the freezer to remind everyone to double check that it was closed.

 

Then I'd work hard to get over it. (insert wry grin)

[Starr]

It's easy for me to get mad and have a fit and, and, but what the previous poster said is probably the most effective. Spending all of the hours cleaning and cooking and figuring out what was lost would make an impact on a young man. And if it takes away time from something you needed to do you might have to find that time at his expense later in the week. You can decide what you think is fair regarding the actual food loss.

[Cedarmom]

Well having done it myself twice...:blush: I would do the same thing as I had done before.(restrict usage. maybe longer than before) Especially considering therewere 9 months in between the infraction. If the food is not bad yet and you need to cook a bunch of it quickly I would have him help with that.

 

Perhaps put a lock on it. If your son has to lock it maybe he'll remember to close it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I sense that perhaps you are looking for a stronger punishment than I would give, but I thought I'd share my likely reaction anyway.

 

I'd be mad.

 

Dear irresponsible son would have to take out everything from the freezer, inspect it, discard what was ruined, wipe down whole freezer and then organize and return everything. While this was going on, I'd likely repeat much of the stuff I said the first time he did it.

 

If some of it could be salvaged if cooked immediately, then dear irresponsible son would be right there along with me in the kitchen til it was done.

 

Then, we'd make a posted to put on the freezer to remind everyone to double check that it was closed.

 

Then I'd work hard to get over it. (insert wry grin)

 

Good advice. But I might have extra chores to do for the next month or so to help "pay" for this damage. At his age and in light of it having happened before, he needs to pay some sweat equity.

[laurad1125]

I have a very forgetful 11yo. :banghead: I like the above. I would likely also assign some other work around the house that would usually be paid (we have non-paid, regularly required work and also the option of some paid work) and require him to "earn" a portion of the money wasted. Certainly not the whole thing but enough so that he might internalize the material value of what was lost. I'd also have a really hard time not yelling about this.... :cursing:

[Mommyof4ks]

I left the door of our upright open a couple of times, so we got a chest freezer to help me lol. I agree with pp, after he cleans up the mess and basically misses out on whatever it was that he had planned for the day he may not forget so easily next time. It is locks, maybe you can insist that everyone lock to freezer after getting something out?

[nono]

If that happened here, the whole family would have to suck up the impact of losing $600 worth of meat by eating a lot of beans and rice. Over and over. For the month. Until we had money to buy food again. And yeah, I'd be all over him if he made one snarky comment like, "Rice and beans again?" And, no, he couldn't eat at a friends' house. And no, other siblings couldn't make snarky comments at dinner either. ;)

 

Why have everyone suffer? Because we are a team, a family, and frankly, any one of us can be careless about something. This situation would just mean someone made a big dollar flub. The rest of us are lucky it wasn't us. A good time to focus all of us back on doing things properly.

[lionfamily1999]

This may be unpopular, but I might start having the younger sibs shadow him to the freezer. He is not allowed to touch the freezer unaccompanied. The gall, that a younger sibling could be showing more responsibility and therefore be somehow superior, should be enough to keep it from happening again.

 

An alarm in your freezer could help too. We have one that beeps (incessantly) if the freezer is left open and the temperature rises.

[EarleneW]

I'd put a lock on it- In fact thats what we did! :)

[hornblower]

My mother did this once when she was house sitting.

I've done it more than once - fortunately we have an alarm so if you're home, you eventually figure out that maybe you should check what that annoying beeping sound was & things didn't get wrecked. My mom didn't hear the alarm & we lost some food.

 

I wouldn't DO anything.

 

I would worry about the child's reluctance to tell you about it. As you say, it's a safety thing not & I'd always want the child to admit safety issues. I'd wonder whether the worry about punishment was inhibiting the willingness to tell the truth. (adults do this all the time too.....)

Edited June 23, 2010 by hornblower

[AngieW in Texas]

We have an upright deep freeze. I ended up putting a baby lock on it to make sure that it shuts all the way every time. The lock makes it very obvious when the freezer doesn't shut all the way. Everybody was trained to make sure the lock was latched very quickly.

[sassenach]

I like the lock idea and the sibling shadow idea. I just want to add that the bulk of the punishment in our home would be related to the lying.

[*Jessica*]

I would go to my bedroom, shut the door, and cry. My oldest is only 6, so I have no idea what I would do to punish a 13-year-old. The lock sounds like a good idea, not to keep him from getting into the freezer but so that the extra step can ensure it is always properly closed.

 

ETA~My almost-5-year-old son forgets to properly close the refridgerator sometimes. The first time he did it we lost a lot of food, and I went to my room and cried just like I said I would do in your situation. Afterwards, any time he went to the fridge I sent him back to the kitchen to be sure he had closed it properly. He got pretty sick of having to make two trips to the kitchen to get a snack, so he has become much more careful about closing it properly. Perhaps that would work for a 13-year-old, too.

Edited June 23, 2010 by *Jessica*

[Desert Rat]

What is it with boys and freezers?! My ds10 just did the exact same thing. Last time, I lost about $250 worth of food. He was banned from even touching the freezer. I moved all of the kids stuff, like popsicles, into the house. Well, last week, we bought otter pops and had them in the freezer outside. He forgot to shut the door even after we reminded him! We caught it in time so the food wasn't affected. I really think the problem is our freezer though. You really have to push on it make sure it closes.

We've revoked his freezer rights. If he wants a popsicle, he has to wait until I can go out there and get one. He did feel remorse which is why I didn't come down too hard on him. We have issues with him feeling compassion, remorse, etc. So, to us, the fact that he did feel bad was enough.

[KidsHappen]

This has happened to us at least five times over the years with both my hubby and myself each being responsible once each. I don't punish my children for a mistake that I myself have made. I would go over the costs involved, explain how it impacts the family, why it is so important and then put a sign on the freezer saying "Make sure the door is firmly closed. Listen for the seal." I have signs all over my house and I found that they do actually work. I am sorry that you had to suffer such a costly error.

[hazilsara]

I agree with pp....make him help with the clean up, suffer with not as tasty dinners due to the loss of the food, and worker to "re-pay" some of the cost of the loss. But I think I might add something else: My son enjoys getting a big item every now and then...mostly at Christmas or his birthday. I think if the family had to re-coup the cost of the loss of the food, my son would feel the pinch, too, in a smaller item than he might expect. I would be very clear that the big item didn't happen because we as a family had to re-allocate the funds from the freezer incidetn--make it clear that it's not exactly a punishment, just a reality of life. Of course, part of why this works for me is because I only have 1 child...not sure how well it would work for a multi-kid household!

 

Good Luck!!

[shannatheshedevil]

If that happened here, the whole family would have to suck up the impact of losing $600 worth of meat by eating a lot of beans and rice. Over and over. For the month. Until we had money to buy food again. And yeah, I'd be all over him if he made one snarky comment like, "Rice and beans again?" And, no, he couldn't eat at a friends' house. And no, other siblings couldn't make snarky comments at dinner either. ;)

 

Why have everyone suffer? Because we are a team, a family, and frankly, any one of us can be careless about something. This situation would just mean someone made a big dollar flub. The rest of us are lucky it wasn't us. A good time to focus all of us back on doing things properly.

 

Yup!:iagree:

[Brilliant]

This has happened to us at least five times over the years with both my hubby and myself each being responsible once each. I don't punish my children for a mistake that I myself have made. ...

 

I was thinking of this, too. We packed food for a trip once, and it was either my husband or I who neglected to close the freezer door firmly. When we came home 3 days later, everything was melted/defrosted. So I would do what others have suggested; try to come up with ways to make sure it doesn't happen again vs. trying to administer punishment.

[secular_mom]

*I* would realize that it just isn't working for me to expect that person to be responsible for the closing of the freezer. *I* would then take over that responsibility, then I'd only have myself to blame in the future if it gets left open again. I'm sad that you've lost so much (time, food, money). Hugs.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I like the idea of an alarm. I think I'll look for one too. The cost of anyone forgetting is so high.

[3littlekeets]

I agree with the pps on the fact that accidents happen and to work on strategies to avoid them next time.

 

BUT, I don't see that anyone has really addressed the lying issue, which is separate, or the food safety issue.

 

First, I'd separate all three. Explain that accidents happen and discuss your plan for that.

 

Then, deal with the lying in the manner your family deals with lying. In our home, we try to come up with natural consequences, but I don't see letting him eat bad food as a good idea :lol:. Perhaps you can have him clean the freezer etc. as others have suggested as the lying consequence?

 

Third, maybe do a unit on food contamination for science so he will UNDERSTAND why it is important to tell you if it happens. He probably thought if it refroze, he'd be fine.

 

Best of luck! This has got to stink!

[Chris in VA]

I agree with Hornblower that your reaction last time might have made him reluctant to admit the truth this time.

 

I would chalk it up to a mistake.

 

Yours doesn't sound like a house where people can make mistakes without a lot of consequences, frankly.

[natalie]

I just wrote up a huge post thanking everyone for their thoughts with some added questions and I checked back over the original thread quickly and read this.

 

I agree with Hornblower that your reaction last time might have made him reluctant to admit the truth this time.

 

I would chalk it up to a mistake.

 

Yours doesn't sound like a house where people can make mistakes without a lot of consequences, frankly.

 

I am curious about this though first. What from the first incident do you think I did wrong in approaching it. What would you have done differently?

 

What we did was:

 

--explain the importance of shutting the door properly

 

--dicussed food safety and why some foods had to be discarded

 

--talked about the cost of the food that was discarded and converted that dollar amount into examples he could understand

 

--showed him how to be certain the door was completely shut

 

--told him if he wasn't certain or if he was having trouble fitting something in to let one of us know

 

--put him on "freezer probation" :tongue_smilie:for a couple months - meaning that at first one of us went with him when he went down to get something; after a period of time that changed to us going to the basement when he was done to double check; after another period of time, we continued to check without him knowing that we were doing so

 

--now when he comes back up we ask him if he remembered to shut the door securely

 

I would sincerely like to know your thoughts. I will post my original reply later.

 

I have to take children to activities, but I will check back later.

 

Thanks.

[QueenCat]

I just want to add that the bulk of the punishment in our home would be related to the lying.

 

:iagree:Same here, I have no tolerance for lying. That is a major issue, and would result in the loss of favorite privileges long enough for it to matter. It has also resulted in writing papers about honesty and lying, and the loss of trust that occurs.

[QueenCat]

But I think I might add something else: My son enjoys getting a big item every now and then...mostly at Christmas or his birthday. I think if the family had to re-coup the cost of the loss of the food, my son would feel the pinch, too, in a smaller item than he might expect. I would be very clear that the big item didn't happen because we as a family had to re-allocate the funds from the freezer incidetn--make it clear that it's not exactly a punishment, just a reality of life. Of course, part of why this works for me is because I only have 1 child...not sure how well it would work for a multi-kid household!

 

Good Luck!!

 

Excellent idea!

[Carol in Cal.]

"Like father, like daughter". But I would not say that, as I support treating everyone but especially parents with respect.

 

And then I would play the guilt card.

 

"Oh, no! We are going to have to throw away all this FOOD! There's so much that it would cost us $600 to replace it! And some of it I MADE before we froze it! The time involved!"

 

I would cover my face dramatically.

 

Then I would say, "This is so sad. What should we do?"

 

I am sure that DD would come up with something good. I would adjust it and we would do that. My guess is that it would involve an offer to clean out the freezer and paying for the contents. I would say that I had to think about it, but that she could go ahead and start. Then later on (after about an hour, if she was diligent) I would say, "Honey, I forgive you the debt. Please don't put us through this again."

 

And that would be the end of it.

 

Because I believe in respecting everyone, even kids.

[AK_Mom4]

Thank you to those who suggested the alarms and the baby locks!

 

We have an older freezer that bounces back open if you close the door too hard. I'm stuck with checking it a couple times a day. I never thought of using either of those items, but they are great ideas.

 

I'm off to buy some today!

[jenn-]

We switched to a chest freezer after we thawed the upright one too many times. I would go over food safety again more in depth this time. He probably really did think everything would be okay if it got cold again. The lying would be the much bigger issue here. Lying is unacceptable here.

[Chris in VA]

It just seemed excessive to me. I'm sorry if I was a little short with you.

[Peela]

I sense that perhaps you are looking for a stronger punishment than I would give, but I thought I'd share my likely reaction anyway.

 

I'd be mad.

 

Dear irresponsible son would have to take out everything from the freezer, inspect it, discard what was ruined, wipe down whole freezer and then organize and return everything. While this was going on, I'd likely repeat much of the stuff I said the first time he did it.

 

If some of it could be salvaged if cooked immediately, then dear irresponsible son would be right there along with me in the kitchen til it was done.

 

Then, we'd make a posted to put on the freezer to remind everyone to double check that it was closed.

 

Then I'd work hard to get over it. (insert wry grin)

 

Yes, something along those lines.

I dont know, but I have a 14yo ds who does things like that all the time, and although it hasnt cost us the whole freezer contents, it has been plenty annoying. But in the end...they are our beloved children and they make mistakes, and honestly, I think puberty makes boys kind of thoughtless. At least, thats my experience with one boy.

If I got upset and angry and gave out punishment everytime my kids did annoyging things like that (and it is regularly) I would spend all my life being upset and annoyed. I am learning to have some grace, forgive, communicate lots about the affect of their behaviour, and move on. Yes, hold them accountable. But...punishment is probably not going to not make him do it again, and it will make you and he feel bad.

[StephanieZ]

I don't like to punish for mistakes. This was a mistake. It totally stinks, but, it is just a mistake. They happen. More often to some of us than others.

 

I would punish for the lying however you would punish similar lies (as in, lying to get out of trouble, but not malicious).

 

I would also start using my freezer key. I might well keep it somewhere that everyone knew about, but all kids would be prohibited from touching it under pain of dire punishment. I would no longer allow any kids into the freezer. I'd just go down there myself (or have dh do so) to get food from it, and keep the regular upstairs fridge/freezer adequately stocked for kid stuff.

 

I feel for you. I coupon shop, OAMC cook, and buy $800 in beef once a year. . . so I fear a kid leaving a freezer ajar with a quaking heart. So far, we've been lucky. But, I keep telling myself it is foolish to keep freezer pops in the big freezers b/c it is just tempting fate. I think I'll move them inside after reading this.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Don't be too hard on him. He likely feels worse than you know. $600 is a lot to you, but to him it is SOOOO much more, and he will feel really crummy about it for a loooonnnngggg time.

[LibraryLover]

Our freezer door needs to be slammed shut. This is very annoying to me, as I have a couple of times been the near-defrosting culprit. I simply pretend it dfidn't happen and secure the door. Partial, or even near total defrosting without warming, then refreezing , only affects taste. ;) I swear nobody here has ever noticed. ;) Whenever I do laundry, I check the freezer, as I am now paranoid.

 

If you lift the front footing of your freezer with one 1/2 inch high blocks, gravity will be your friend.

[LibraryLover]

Wise words. I heart you.

 

Yes, something along those lines.

I dont know, but I have a 14yo ds who does things like that all the time, and although it hasnt cost us the whole freezer contents, it has been plenty annoying. But in the end...they are our beloved children and they make mistakes, and honestly, I think puberty makes boys kind of thoughtless. At least, thats my experience with one boy.

If I got upset and angry and gave out punishment everytime my kids did annoyging things like that (and it is regularly) I would spend all my life being upset and annoyed.

QUOTE]

[natalie]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

 

We do already have a key that is supposed to be used. We had told him that is how he can be certain the door is shut all the way - if the key works. He just forgot to use the key; it was sitting on top of the freezer where he set it down when he opened the freezer. I'm going to see if there is some way to fasten it to front of the freezer so that it is easier to remember to use.

 

The alarm is an excellent idea. Our freezer does "beep" if the temperature rises too high, but it's too quiet - it can't be heard upstairs. I was not aware you could purchase alarms that weren't "buillt-in" to the freezer. Does anyone have any recommendations for a really loud one?

 

I do have more questions, but I'm breaking it into another post for my own convenience (to help keep my thoughts in somewhat of an order.)

 

Thanks again.

[Murphy101]

If that happened here, the whole family would have to suck up the impact of losing $600 worth of meat by eating a lot of beans and rice. Over and over. For the month. Until we had money to buy food again. And yeah, I'd be all over him if he made one snarky comment like, "Rice and beans again?" And, no, he couldn't eat at a friends' house. And no, other siblings couldn't make snarky comments at dinner either. ;)

 

Why have everyone suffer? Because we are a team, a family, and frankly, any one of us can be careless about something. This situation would just mean someone made a big dollar flub. The rest of us are lucky it wasn't us. A good time to focus all of us back on doing things properly.

 

Yep. Exactly what would happen in my house too.

[natalie]

I would like to say that I wasn't looking to "punish" him for leaving the freezer door open. I'm not quite certain why so many people had the idea that I was (maybe my word choice wasn't right?). I was simply trying to get an idea about what others would do in that particular situation. Sort of like seeing what others use and do for their schooling - more of an encouragement that you're not totally off track.

 

Was the way it was handled the first time excessive as someone has suggested?

 

The first time this happened ds was helping put groceries away and didn't shut the door properly. The cost of the food that couldn't be salvaged was approximately $300. He didn't get in trouble; the freezer was quite full so he might have had some difficulty and we hadn't discussed previously how important it was to make sure that the door was shut.

 

What we did was:

 

--explain the importance of shutting the door properly

 

--dicussed food safety and why some foods had to be discarded

 

--talked about the cost of the food that was discarded and converted that dollar amount into examples he could understand

 

--showed him how to be certain the door was completely shut

 

--told him if he wasn't certain or if he was having trouble fitting something in to let one of us know

 

--put him on "freezer probation" :tongue_smilie:for a couple months - meaning that at first one of us went with him when he went down to get something; after a period of time that changed to us going to the basement when he was done to double check; after another period of time, we continued to check without him knowing that we were doing so

 

--now when he comes back up we ask him if he remembered to shut the door securely

 

I've been thinking and thinking about this since yesterday. What would YOU (any of you) have done differently. Would you have done any of those steps, none of them?

 

I "thought" it seemed reasonable at the time. I AM open to the possibility that it was, in fact, excessive though. Please help me see this from a different perspective.

 

 

If it helps, here is the logic behind our apparent madness:

 

We had only had the freezer a few months when it happened the first time and hadn't actually discussed the importance of checking the freezer or using the key to be certain the door was completely shut. That is why we explained these things to him when it happened. If we don't tell them why something should be done and how to do it, how can we expect them to know?

 

We told him to come to us if he had any problems. I just can't see how that could possibly be wrong to do.

 

We discussed food safety and why we had to throw some things away and others could be kept. We hadn't really covered this before and, in my mind, it seemed like an appropriate time to do so.

 

We talked about the cost of the food and converted the value of it into a couple examples he could understand more readily. Value of money can sometimes be somewhat abstract to a child, it is to this dc. Therefore, we converted it into the number of nintendo/wii games he could buy or the number of candy bars. Not that he'd ever buy that quantity of those items, but he knows how much he needs to save to buy a game and how long that takes. He knows that 300 candy bars is A LOT. We saw it more as an "economics" lesson.

 

The "freezer probation" was simply an attempt to help him form a habit. He wasn't actually told "You're on freezer probation now, Kid!" At first, we took over freezer duty (we don't keep ready to eat items in that freezer, it's just the storage freezer) and just asked him to come down with us and "give us a hand". After a time we started sending him down again, but when he came up we'd say something like "Oh, hang on, let's go double check that door." After that we still checked without him knowing, for our own peace of mind (and that's where we probably slacked by not continuing to do so) Shucks, I have a hard time forming new habits and sometimes ask the others in the house to remind me of things. It takes time to form habits, but once you do we've all found it makes life SO much easier! The children remind me of things all the time, and I remind them. I see it not as a punishment, but as helping one another and working together.

 

Also, I did not make him clean up the mess. I did this myself, as I felt responsible.

 

Thanks in advance as I try to grow as a parent!

[Murphy101]

I agree with Hornblower that your reaction last time might have made him reluctant to admit the truth this time.

 

I would chalk it up to a mistake.

 

Yours doesn't sound like a house where people can make mistakes without a lot of consequences, frankly.

 

I don't think she did anything wrong the first time.

 

She gave a natural consequence - cleaning up the result.

She explain why it was important and what could have happened.

She gave sound and specific ways to avoid repeating the mistake.

She followed up with him until she felt he didn't need the follow up anymore.

 

Frankly, some mistakes do have many consequences and is doubly true for simple mistakes on a low income.

 

I didn't get the impression that she emotionally trashed him. Just a wow this really sucks so try not to make this mistake again.

 

At 13 I don't put much stock in the excuse that cleaning up his previous mistake and getting a health lecture is a satisfactory excuse to lie when he repeats the mistake to avoid the consequences.

[texasmama]

Haven't read the other replies -

 

He would lose his freezer privileges for an indefinite period of time, help me clean up the mess and do something (chores, etc) to work off at least some of what his carelessness ruined. The lying about it was obviously to cover his mistake. I would address that only in terms of being terribly disappointed and that there are relationship consequences for lying, including the fact that you now wonder if you can trust him. I wouldn't give a consequence for the lying because I would imagine that your disappointment would be enough to make an impact. He knows he has done wrong and broken trust.

 

My teen dd did this about a year or so ago, and I now keep all items that she might need in the house freezer. She is still not allowed to go into the garage freezer. We also keep it locked, and I am very careful to make sure it is truly locked when I use it. The key is kept on top of it (the locking is not to keep dd out, more to make sure that the littles don't leave it ajar). I am pretty much the only one who goes into that freezer now, and we have had no more issues.

 

I think that teens have their heads wrapping around so much stuff that they tend to be careless. I know I was as a teen.

[Haiku]

Well, in my house said child would not get to use the freezer anymore and would also be contributing quite a chunk of time toward working off the cost of the spoiled food. Any allowance would be forfeited, and the child would be taking on quite a bit more responsibility for helping around the house. I'd also not hesitate to farm the child out to others for paid labor, keeping the profits for the "spoiled food fund." I would probably also restrict some privileges for a while. In our house, the people who don't take care of their responsibilities don't get the reward of privileges. I'd also remind said child that people who lie are people who aren't believed and trusted and that this will impact my decisions about privileges and outings in the future.

 

I'm far less tolerant of lazy/absentminded/careless behavior in teens (I have a dd15) than many people I know. When I was growing up, I was expected to be responsible. End of story. No one made excuses for me when I messed up, and I have grown up to be an extremely responsible person.

 

Tara

[Kathleen in VA]

Natalie,

 

Ftr, I do not think your approach the first time was excessive in the very least. You took the opportunity the mistake presented to instruct your child - perfectly reasonable. You said in your post that "he did not get in trouble" which in my mind means you did not punish him or take away privileges (video games, etc.) or anything else punitive since you took the responsibility yourself. All of the things you listed seem completely logical and useful to me. I have no idea where anyone is getting the idea that you were harsh.:confused:

 

Anyway, the thing that would have bothered me about your current situation is the lying. I would be very dismayed over losing that much money in food (and the effort it took to prepare some of it already) and I might have shown that initially in my reaction (perhaps even over-reacted:D), but I would have calmed down, apologized and focused more on the lying aspect of the whole deal.

 

You did not cause your son to lie - he chose to. That's the only thing that I would punish for in this instance. I would, however, have him help clean up the mess and I would have him work (extra chores) to some extent to help "pay" for the lost food - these would be natural consequences of his actions if he were living on his own and the same thing happened - it seems perfectly reasonable for him to at least taste this aspect of his carelessness so he has more of an idea how this kind of mess plays out in adulthood.

 

You were NOT harsh.:grouphug:

[Murphy101]

I'd do the same as last time.

As pp noted, the only long term consequence would be sufferred by the family during meals.

 

In addition to that, which I don't consider a punishment but just life, I'd treat the lying seperate and would give standard punishment for lying. In this case it appears he was lying to avoid cleaning the mess so my punishment would be some sort of extra chore(s) for 2 or 3 days in addition to cleaning up the freezer mess. Our basic rule is lying/laziness always ends up costing double in the end.

[MeganW]

Our fridge doesn't close unless you push it all the way, so the door has been left open a number of times. DH finally raised the front by 1/2 an inch (so the fridge is at a very slight angle and the door falls closed). Completely solved our problem!

 

I can see how anyone could leave the door open, and I'm not sure I'd punish beyond having him deal with the cleanup, help re-prep, etc.

 

The lying, though, THAT is what I would focus on. At 5, I still spank, and lying is the one transgression that guarantees a spanking. It's by far the worst offense in my house. I am not there yet, so I have no clue how to punish a 15 year old, but just wanted to throw out there that the lying is what you really need to deal with.

[Cheryl in NM]

I like the idea of having him sort through the food, figure out what to discard, help cook what needs to be cooked immediately to be salvaged. I also like the idea of extra chores to work off the amount of food wasted, which of course, would be less if some could be cooked and re-frozen. 13 year olds just go brain dead sometimes, but they need to learn to pay attention.

 

My 13 year old took a knife to pry an SD card out of my brand. new. car stereo! It still plays, but now you have to pry the card out every. time. Besides a stiff lecture from me and his dad (we had just had a conversation about electronics and if it doesn't work easily you are doing it wrong, get help!) I told him he'd have to re-pay me for the stereo since it was no longer in the working condition it was when he got his hands on it. He gets $10 a month in allowance so I keep all that and any money he makes or receives as gifts is mine until the $100 stereo is paid off. We also had about a 6 foot trench that needed to be dug through very rocky, sandy soil so I gave him $50 credit for getting that done in one day. The neighbor is also paying him $35 for clearing and mowing 1 acre. So he'll have the stereo paid off in 1 month instead of the almost 2 years he originally though with allowance alone. I'm a little miffed that it didn't take him long to pay it off, but I watched the sweat and frustration of him digging that trench so I guess it's worth it. I just hope the lesson struck home!

 

ETA: I don't really see this as a punishment. In real life, those food items need to be sorted, the freezer cleaned, some food items need to be cooked and re-frozen. Then it will take money to re-purchase items. These are natural consequences that your son would have to face if he were an adult. Teenage years are the perfect time for them to learn from these bone-headed mistakes.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Cheryl in NM

[Murphy101]

My 13 year old took a knife to pry an SD card out of my brand. new. car stereo!

 

O

M

H

!

 

That would not have need a happy afternoon at our house.

Tearing up the stereo.

Using a knife like that.

Messing with the car in general.

 

You handled it much nicer than my dh would have. Ds12 claims to have lost his DSi so ALL of his electronics have been removed until he finds it. (It is not acceptable to just loose $200 items!) His db7 was nice and let him use his DS and he let the baby play with it on purpose so dh sold one of his MP3 player to but his brother a new DSi.

 

DS12 is very miserable right now but he has been told a bazillion times to put his stuff up instead of just dumping it wherever he leaves it and that if he can't be responsible for his stuff then he isn't ready to own it.

 

Eta: We know things happen and we normally wouldn't have been so harsh. But this particular son has show blatent disregard in this area and it's an ongoing problem we are trying to resolve.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Martha

[Cheryl in NM]

O

M

H

!

 

That would not have need a happy afternoon at our house.

Tearing up the stereo.

Using a knife like that.

Messing with the car in general.

 

You handled it much nicer than my dh would have. Ds12 claims to have lost his DSi so ALL of his electronics have been removed until he finds it. (It is not acceptable to just loose $200 items!) His db7 was nice and let him use his DS and he let the baby play with it on purpose so dh sold one of his MP3 player to but his brother a new DSi.

 

DS12 is very miserable right now but he has been told a bazillion times to put his stuff up instead of just dumping it wherever he leaves it and that if he can't be responsible for his stuff then he isn't ready to own it.

 

It was not a happy day. Dh was at work and didn't see ds until the next day so the next day wasn't very happy either. Ds was trying to get "his" music in the stereo before I came out to drive his friends home. So that issue had to be addressed also. I almost cried!

 

I agree with a pp that we need to teach our kids to be responsible instead of making excuses for them. The excuses are what they are, but the irresponsibility is the fact. The freezer got left open; there are consequences. The stereo no longer works the way it was intended; there are consequences.

 

I am now working on the grace to let it go once he has it paid off and to re-instate his allowance instead of "forgetting". :tongue_smilie:

[natalie]

Hi, me again! Can you stand some more questions?

 

Before I posted originally, we had taken care of most of the mess. What happened during the cleaning is what led me to ask what others “would doâ€. I think I was trying to separate the "actions". Unfortunately I am still having difficulty. Some additional information follows ... if you are willing to go on that is :) !

 

When I discovered the situation, I admit I did let out a rather large groan while putting my hands to my head and exclaiming “Oh no!†in horror. LOL...is there a smilie for that?

 

To my credit though, next, I simply took a deep breath and said, “Okay, let’s get to work.â€

 

At the time I wasn’t thinking about “what to do†or about “consequencesâ€. I simply wanted to get the mess taken care of.

 

I sorted the items into "still good", "bad", and "eat/prepare immediately" (we’re going to have some very interesting meals for a while :tongue_smilie:!) I cleaned up the mess mostly myself with him watching and working as my assistant because we were short on time and obviously couldn’t just leave this be; there was melted ice cream, raw chicken and shrimp "juice", etc. all over everything, and I couldn’t simply refreeze it since I wouldn’t know what was still safe.

 

I did not yell. I did not lecture. I worked. I did request him to stay with me and assist so that we could get it taken care of faster. He was asked to do things like bring boxes and bags for me to put things into, bring down hot soapy water for me to wash out the freezer and clean the floor around the freezer (shrimp “juice†pooled on concrete does NOT smell good), and carry things upstairs for us to deal with there.

 

During this time he grumbled, his moaned, he complained, and even yelled at me once about having to do these things, and about the mere fact that he actually had to stand there watching me clean up the mess “just in case†I needed something else.

 

When we came back upstairs to deal with the mess that had been brought up, he actually told me “NO†at one point when I requested for him to do something. I had to repeat my request 4 times before he complied.

 

(Just so you know, doing this entire event I remained completely calm; not so much as a raised voice, just simple calm requests. I am quite proud of myself because he was truly trying my patience :glare:.)

 

I can deal with the lost food; that is really a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. In fact, while the lying was wrong and I still think it should be dealt with I can sort of understand it (that still doesn’t make it right). My biggest issue though is with his attitude.

 

This is an ongoing issue lately. Ds complains about picking up his own dirty underwear off the bathroom/bedroom floor. He refuses to put any more than the absolute minimum amount of effort into anything. He actually aims for doing the least amount of work that he can to get by with. When he takes his laundry down, I may very well find that he's shoved it in the hall closet or under the couch instead of walking it the extra 6 feet to the laundry room. He will then pretend he’s surprised, as in “How on earth did that get there?â€, when we find it and ask him to put it away properly. When he does his school work, he aims for 60% because that's what the public school required of him – never mind the fact that he's been home for 5 years now and that excuse hasn't worked once yet.

 

That is what upsets me about the freezer incident. It could be a true mistake and he simply forgot; I don’t have a problem with that. As everyone has said, mistakes happen. However, based on past history it's also possible he didn't want to expend the extra energy to push that box in the extra inch. Or perhaps the reason he forgot was that he was so caught up in his own attitude about the injustice of being requested to bring something up for dinner. (Do you expect your children to help out other than with regularly chores?)

 

I like what everyone has said about separating it into separate events but how do you actually do that when his past actions have given you pause as to what actually happened. Would what you did about the freezer being left open change based on these other factors? Would you still separate out the events? How do you do that when what you “think†is a reasonable response on your part to the situation, is reacted to with attitude and defiance? Everything just seems so intertwined.

 

Dh thinks that not only should ds have to skip going to Boy Scout camp with his troop next week, but that he should also have to quit Boy Scouts altogether. This is based on the whole event: carelessness, lying, and attitude. His reasoning is if ds is going to have attitude and not being willing to do things for us, why should we go to the extra effort and expense to do special things for him.

 

I think this is rather extreme and dh is willing to defer to my judgment on the matter. On the other hand, you (or at least I) frequently hear people say that what is wrong with kids these days is that there are no consequences for their actions and that parents are slacking by not stepping up and doing what needs to be done. Where is that line between being a pushover and being too tough?

 

Don’t get me wrong; I realize this all sounds so negative. He is truly a wonderful boy. I love him dearly. He has always struggled with his emotions, so I know that at this age he must be having an especially tough time. The reason I am asking these questions is because I DO cherish him so much and want the best for him. I don’t want to mess this up.

 

 

 

P.S. For anyone still with me, wow! Thanks!

 

As you can see by my measly 60-some post count since 2008 (and never in the 3 years I spent on the old boards) I don’t post very often. Usually I just have these conversations in my head where I imagine what various posters will say :D . This is sooo much better!! (Now I have a list of about 20 different threads to start :tongue_smilie:!)

[Haiku]

Dh thinks that not only should ds have to skip going to Boy Scout camp with his troop next week, but that he should also have to quit Boy Scouts altogether.

 

I am generally "stricter," "harsher," "meaner," or whatever than my dh, but I agree with you that this is too extreme. In fact, I think that having an outside activity where your ds is accountable to someone other than you and your dh is a good thing.

 

As far as whether it was a mistake or laziness that the freezer door was left open, I am of the opinion that it doesn't matter. The outcome is the same. Regardless of the cause, your ds was irresponsible and then he lied about it. Two problems, plain and simple.

 

Tara

[Corraleno]

During this time he grumbled, his moaned, he complained, and even yelled at me once about having to do these things, and about the mere fact that he actually had to stand there watching me clean up the mess “just in case†I needed something else.

 

When we came back upstairs to deal with the mess that had been brought up, he actually told me “NO†at one point when I requested for him to do something. I had to repeat my request 4 times before he complied.

 

(Just so you know, doing this entire event I remained completely calm; not so much as a raised voice, just simple calm requests. I am quite proud of myself because he was truly trying my patience :glare:.)

 

:eek:

I think I'm much less strict with my kids than many on this board, but I would absolutely not stand for any of this attitude. For him to take that attitude with you, when you were cleaning up his mess, after he lied to you. Just...wow! If my child did that he would be losing all privileges and doing a LOT of additional chores until his attitude changed.

 

Jackie

[Murphy101]

I 100% agree with your husband.

 

No way would that behavior earn extracurriculiars and a vacation.

 

He is taking advantage of you. I'd tell him that the results of his actions and behaviors equals zero privledges until he completes what is asked of him properly and sans attitude. No electronics or outside activities until homework and chores pass inspection each day. My ds15 is just now earning back privledges for the same attitude. I took a solid 3 months before I felt we were starting to see the light. But looking back he admits it helped. I'd listen to your dh on this if for no other reason than your ds is likely going to listen to your dh better. I'd have dh be the one to break the news to him and handle all complaints about it. I bet your son changes his tune when it's dh.