15 yo son wants to be a rockstar and do drugs....

[MagistraMichelle]

Yep, you read that right.

Our 15 yo wants to be a rockstar and try cocaine.

I can't believe I am posting this in a public forum but desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

Background info...ds has always been a moody, sensitive child. He doesn't make friends easily and struggles a lot with expressing himself. Being sensitive, he often feels as though others don't 'like' him or are 'judging' him. He struggles with his studies and ends up in tears of frustration very often.

 

18 months ago, our daughter was born with Hirschsprungs Disease. Of coarse, there is no way to know this before birth so she was transferred to a hospital an hour away to get the level of care she required. It was touch and go for a couple weeks. We stayed across the street from the hospital in special housing for families of critical patients.

 

During the time we were in the hospital my mother came and stayed with the children who at that time were 17, 13, 7 and 4. This particular son was 13. On one occasion my mother brought all the children to the mall where my ds begged to hang out at a bookstore. He was alone there for about 45 minutes before my mom came back to get him.

 

Apparently he 'bought' (though I can't be certain of this) a book with his gift card. The book he bought was a biography about Motley Crew.

 

He had this book for 7-8 months before we found and seized it. I was horrified at the content. It made me sick. My son received a thorough education to say the least. In fact, I did myself just from reading parts of it. He learned all about drinking in excess, drugs, sex...oh yes. Very 'wholesome' reading indeed. He came away with a mad desire to be just like one of the band members, Nicky Sixx. In fact, my son is obsessed with this guy.

 

We dealt with the whole thing as best we could. We removed his clock radio, we stopped guitar lessons, we removed his bedroom door, we didn't allow him to stay home when we had errands he had no desire to accompany us on. In short, we sort of tomato-staked him. He didn't appreciate it, but oh well.

 

We thought he was improving and he was, just not in the way we thought. He was improving his sneakiness, his lying, his ability to deceive.

 

We found his journal a couple months ago and it confirmed that he has been up to no good. He got into my husbands alcohol (many times it appears and enough to be inebriated). He tried smoking tea leaves (this was funny in a way, but really not a good sign). I was not shocked, my husband was floored. He couldn't believe our son was doing all this.

 

There have been a few incidents as well. Actually, many incidents. He has physically overpowered me. He has gotten in my face and held his fist up as though he was going to hit me, but he didn't. When I told him to do it, then he would go to jail he told me "I will tell the police you hit me first, then you'll go to jail". These things happen when my husband is out of town (which is weekly).

 

He is behind on his schoolwork. Dh isn't home daily so he can't keep a firm grip on him and besides that Dh doesn't even know where to begin with this child.

 

He pouts the entire time we are at church or in any social setting for that matter (hangs his head, has a scowl on his face, doesn't engage/talk to others). He has no friends, NOT ONE. Despite the fact that we socialize often. He sits in the corner if we force him to attend the hs teen activities. He makes a spectacle of himself.

 

We have decided to put him in Private School next year. One reason is for him to have accountability to someone other than mommy. The other is because socially, he is a total duck. Plus, I figure he might actually learn something if it is someone other than dh or myself.

 

I don't know. I am at my wits end. I keep thinking that maybe we should find some boys camps that would engage him physically and have him so tired he can't do anything at the end of the day but sleep. As it is, he spends one day a week with a close friend who is a carpenter. He is learning a lot but it is only one day and requires an hour of driving to get him there (which equates to 2 hours total).

 

I really don't want to put him in private school but I just can't take anymore fighting, arguing. Or at the very least, I would get a break during the day and so would my littles who have seen way too much already.

 

Any suggestions from 'those who have gone before'?

 

Michelle

Edited May 26, 2010 by MagistraMichelle
edit for spelling

[Jean in Newcastle]

Michelle,

 

It sounds like you've done all the right things but now it sounds like things are beyond what simply you as a parent can do. What I would suggest is: counseling, and/or something like "Teen Challenge". I know of a wonderful Christian youth camp for troubled teens call Glen Haven in Arkansas.

[Daisy]

Agreeing with pp. :grouphug:

[Remudamom]

I can't say that we've btdt, but it sounds like this young man needs hard physical work, and lots of it, among other things.

 

Maybe he needs to join an addiction group now, and see how awful it is.

[JVA]

One of ours dabbled in these ideas..... it's draining and heartbreaking, I know.

 

He needs to see a counselor asap- one that specializes in rebelious teen boys. Focus on the Family can give you a recommendation for your area.

 

He needs to spend a LOT of time with his dad. This is a crucial time for him and my advice is that dad must re-arrange his priorities to pour himself into his son. Not that he doesn't love him- but TIME spells love to a teenager. My dh gave up traveling, his music writing hobby and directing the orchestra at church during this time for our son.

 

Most importantly, I would ask your pastor, elders and people whom you respect to PRAY for the protection of your son and wisdom for you and your dh.

 

We had a baby during this time with our son- one who needed lots of ortho surgery and weekly trips to the doc and pt. It was tiring to meet all the needs. We didn't do everything right but cutting back and focusing was one thing we did right.

 

The most important thing I learned during that time was that it was most important to try to maintain the relationship with our son and not always be 'right'. Hard lesson for me. He is now in his 20s and even though he isn't living in a way that makes me cheer all the time, he is assured of our love and support (for the good things!) and we pray that his knowledge of that and the safety of his family will one day bring him to a place where he sees (again) his need for the Lord. God will work in whatever manner He chooses. He is welcomed here anytime (just came for a week visit for his brother's graduation from across the country :>) ); he is loved and respected. God cares and loves him much more than we ever will and is not finished with him. Nor with me!

 

Find friends that can support you and relate to this challenge. There is nothing worse that feeling like people are talking about you and/or criticizing you.

 

I'm sorry you're facing this. It's no fun but, God can use it in many ways and never lets anything go to waste- even hard stuff.

:grouphug:

[FaithManor]

I second what Jean said about counseling. This is where I would start. He might not want to talk, but you can at least make going to the sessions mandatory by keeping him on restriction until he agrees. Do some research and try to find someone that has lots of experience with adolescents but also one that is reputed to NOT undermine parental authority. We have one teen counselor in our area that assures every single kid that their parents are idiots and have no right to discipline them. We have another who has a wonderfu listening ear, excellent perception, and can be very encouraging but at the end of the day says to kids "You need to obey your parents...they are trying to do what is best for you. You'll understand better when you are older." So, definitely find out on which side of the coin that counselor is.

 

Once he's in counseling, maybe you should consider having a psychiatrist evaluate him. I am not a huge fan of the "let's medicate everyone into happiness" bandwagon - usually I'm way conservative on this issue. But, if he is clinically depressed and his brain chemistry is wonky, it might be something to consider. Psychiatrists at children's hospitals are usually better at being able to tell the difference between good old fashioned rebellion and a kid in need of some body chem help. I wouldn't take a pediatrician's word for it. They don't have enough training and many just seem soooooooo willing to write a prescription.

 

I'm learning, slowly, that teenagers get a little adrenalin rush from arguments and drama so, as much as possible, be "Mr. Spock from the Star Ship Enterprise" (I hope you know the reference otherwise this advice is a little obscure). Though my ds 13 isn't really rebellious, he can be a drama king and I find that if I can raise my eyebrow and act in some completely unemotional way, it just shuts him off!

 

Be careful of the private school. I went to one and half the kids I knew drank....they were just good at hiding it. As for music, though their parents all thought they were goody-two-shoes parents, Motley Crew would have been the least of their worries! That said, sometimes a change of pace and being held accountable to others does help a bunch. Just be very careful about that social life. If you enroll him, plan on being glued to him when not actually in school and get to know his buddies right away.

 

One last word....consider having a once a week date night with him. Yeah, I know it sounds corny and it might be very, very difficult to plan for, but do it anyway. He needs to have some time to reconnect with you and if possible, with DH. It doesn't have to be expensive but try to include, once in a while, something appropriate that he really loves even if it is a little costly. He may think, due to his bad behavior, that there is absolutely nothing that you like about him. Unfortunately, some kids can push parents to the point that they think there isn't anything they like about their child. But, he still needs to feel that unconditional love.

 

As for grandma, oh boy.......there would be a real long talk and a "Don't you ever do that again" about leaving a teen in the book store at the mall for 45 minutes, letting him make a purchase, and then never checking to see what he bought. Nope, especially if he was already a kid that showed he didn't have the best judgment.

 

I'm sorry that you are going through this.

Faith

[Daisy]

I see too many signs of mental illness (depression, bipolar, whatever) to suggest anything other than counseling.

 

tears of frustration

limited social interaction

negative thinking

anger

self-medicating (drinking, smoking)

fixating

lying

stealing

 

He needs an intervention. The sooner, the better.

[ereks mom]

I agree with Jean also.

[MagistraMichelle]

Grandma didn't know he bought the book because he hid it in his pants.

 

But she isn't super involved with my childrens life because of other issues. However, we were not in a position to be picky either. In fact, we were downright desperate.

 

I appreciate the kind words and suggestions. I am going to do a little research for some local resources.

 

Thank you ladies;)

 

Michelle

[Stacy in NJ]

prior approach. Soo here goes. He bought an inapproriate book ~ big deal. While I agree that the gutter vaules of your average rock star are nothing to emmulate, you probably only inflamed whatever rebellious feeling your ds was experiencing by taking such an authoritarian approach to discipline. Sometime you don't actually nip it in the bud when you come down hard on a behavior. You've made the behavior MORE attractive, in fact.

 

It sounds like he's an anti-authoritarian kid. You're only pushing him away when you over react to his behaviors. You're feeding it.

[Carrie12345]

Professional help.

 

I've read the Motley Crue book. I've been a fan of the group forever, and I've been well aware of "the lifestyle", but my stomach was churning through nearly every page.

To hear of his obsession with Nikki Sixx's story is, quite frankly, terrifying. I wouldn't call it glamorized. They shared the nitty gritty filth and terror. He was declared dead. My heart was racing while reading it, despite knowing the outcome. There was no pretty picture painted in that regard.

 

I am not a professional. I do not have teens. But I do think he's sending you a message that is NOT about glamorous rock life.

[astrid]

Professional help. ..........I do think he's sending you a message that is NOT about glamorous rock life.

 

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

 

This kid is screaming out for help, IMHO. Not Christian Counseling, or talking with a pastor, or hard physical labor. Psychiatric help, and from someone who specializes in teens/teen boys.

 

Peace and best wishes,

 

astrid

[astrid]

prior approach. Soo here goes. He bought an inapproriate book ~ big deal. While I agree that the gutter vaules of your average rock star are nothing to emmulate, you probably only inflamed whatever rebellious feeling your ds was experiencing by taking such an authoritarian approach to discipline. Sometime you don't actually nip it in the bud when you come down hard on a behavior. You've made the behavior MORE attractive, in fact.

 

It sounds like he's an anti-authoritarian kid. You're only pushing him away when you over react to his behaviors. You're feeding it.

 

 

I agree.

 

astrid

[emeraldjoy]

I was you son at his age.....even younger actually.

There is a really, really great book called Loving your Kids on Purpose....Danny Silk...it is relgious based, but not quite the same as a focus on the family "focus".

 

It has got to get to a place where it is about relationship...that he wants to do the right not because he is afraid of getting in trouble, but because of the relationship you have with eachother. The control by punitive means only goes so far and there will inevitably come a time where the child realizes that you no longer control him and then he will act out because he can....sounds like he is getting there. That is what I mean about relationship, it has to be more than action only because he is afraid of consequences, it has got to be action out of relationship.....and empowering him to make good choices all on his own...because he is at an age and a place where he will make his own choices...help them to be good ones.

our Father God loves us so, so much and he wants us to do the right thing because of our relationship..not because we are scared into it.....the book talks about emulating our relationship with our kids on this principle.

 

I hope this did not offend you or confuse you any further.

My heart is hurting for you.

I have done a lot of htinking about how I came to place where I was dependent on Meth and pregnant....etc, etc......I came from a "nice christian family" and let me tell you that when I got to the place that he is (or close to)....my parents control got worse and then my behavior got worse. I eventually moved out when I was 16 because noone could stop me and I knew it.

I hope this helps. If you ahve any questions please ask and I highly, highy recomment that book. it is an easy read too.

e

[forty-two]

I am not a professional. I do not have teens. But I do think he's sending you a message that is NOT about glamorous rock life.

:iagree: The obsession with being a druggie rock star sounds like a symptom of a deeper problem. I've been seriously depressed and it is easy to fixate on the idea that a radical lifestyle change will solve all your problems. Even (especially?) a self-destructive lifestyle. He needs serious help :grouphug:.

[Miss Marple]

I see too many signs of mental illness (depression, bipolar, whatever) to suggest anything other than counseling.

 

tears of frustration

limited social interaction

negative thinking

anger

self-medicating (drinking, smoking)

fixating

lying

stealing

 

He needs an intervention. The sooner, the better.

 

Agree! I would have him seen pronto!

[J-rap]

***

Edited February 28, 2023 by J-rap

[Quiver0f10]

Michelle,

 

It sounds like you've done all the right things but now it sounds like things are beyond what simply you as a parent can do. What I would suggest is: counseling, and/or something like "Teen Challenge". I know of a wonderful Christian youth camp for troubled teens call Glen Haven in Arkansas.

 

 

:iagree: I'd get him some help immediately.

 

OT: We have a child who was born with Hirschsprungs Disease.

[Shawna in Texas]

Professional help.

 

I've read the Motley Crue book. I've been a fan of the group forever, and I've been well aware of "the lifestyle", but my stomach was churning through nearly every page.

To hear of his obsession with Nikki Sixx's story is, quite frankly, terrifying. I wouldn't call it glamorized. They shared the nitty gritty filth and terror. He was declared dead. My heart was racing while reading it, despite knowing the outcome. There was no pretty picture painted in that regard.

 

I am not a professional. I do not have teens. But I do think he's sending you a message that is NOT about glamorous rock life.

 

If he still wants to emulate Nikki Six even after reading it and knowing that Nikki Six struggled with being clean, then yeah, I'd recommend some help. Nikki did publish a journal of sorts that talks really deeply about his addiction and about the light at the end. It's possible that he's really yanking your chain but I'd err on the side of caution.

 

There's so many rockers that have have struggled with that sort of thing and they scrapped bottom numerous times and died of addiction.

 

I'd tell him that for him to think this is all glamorous, even when the rockers themselves don't think it's glamorous now that they've come clean, requires him to get some professional help. Tell him to write a letter to Nikki Six and get advice from him. Nikki may enjoy getting fan letters after all this time.

 

There's also that show on Vh1 or somewhere. It's about washed up celebrities trying to get clean. It's probably very explicit, but I think he's old enough for it.

[happygrrl]

My mother could have written your post, as I was exactly like that at 14. Instead of treating the problems you describe, see them for what they are: symptoms of a deeper problem. Professional help can get to the bottom of what is really going on. For me, it was bipolar that sprang to life when puberty hit. The family issues at that time dictated how the symptoms manifested, but treating those symptoms would have still left the root. I hope I am being clear.

 

Please get professional help! The patterns established become habits that are hard to get rid of (even after the root is dealt with, whatever that is). I wish I had gotten help at 14 instead of 33... I could have a background of good habits to fall back on. Trust your gut, love your kid unconditionally, and get help (so that you can be the support, not the bad guy).

 

These stories can have a happy ending!

My prayers are with you. :grouphug:

[Parrothead]

Tell him to write a letter to Nikki Six and get advice from him. Nikki may enjoy getting fan letters after all this time.

 

I like that idea, but it sounds to me like your son is suffering from depression at the very least. If the Sixx guy writes him back and tells him how awful the lifestyle that your son wants to emulate was it may send your son reeling.

 

As someone already said, an inappropriate book should not have caused all this downward spiral. How did he even know to look for a book about Motley Crue? There had to be something there that was triggered the behavior. Sometimes entering adolescence is the trigger. He was about the right age.

 

You need to get him to a psychiatrist as soon as you can. There is something seriously wrong. I also agree with the poster that said his father needs to step up as much as possible. If it will not cause problems with the job, staying home (as in no traveling) needs to be an must right now.

 

I would also caution public/private school. He may see it as you are done with him/don't want him around. I would give him some space too. He will get even better at sneaking and lying. Maybe give him back his guitar and bedroom door. If you give them back let him know that you expect him to be a big brother and he is not to do or say anything that is not appropriate for the youngers. The consequences can be the removal of the door again. A place to brood alone may be good for him.

 

Good luck

Edited May 26, 2010 by Parrothead

[laughing lioness]

I would never again threaten him with calling the police. If his behavior is threatening in any way, just make the call. Don't "Call his bluff." That is dangerous and stupid.

Get professional help but be wise. Call around, interview the "professional." Get references. Find out what their goal is for treatment. Is it behavior modification, getting the kids to do what the parents want, or just giving them a safe place to "vent"? Don't assume that just becasue you find an licensed "therapist" that they have experience in what you are dealing with or have the same goals that you do. What is their treatment plan? How do you know it's been accomplished?

Decide, with your dh, what behaviors are "deal breakers." Fist in mom's face, hitting, threating? Make a plan for what will happen when this occurs.

I would suspect drug useage if he is having odd (for him) behavior and mood swings but I'd be very wary of a clinician who diagnosed him with a pd such as bi-polar, etc before he turns 18.

Are you part of a community of faith? I would covet prayers of safety and wisdom for him and your family until you find the help you need (and I strongly agree with Asta- this does NOT mean a youth pastor or biblical counseling. I'd start with a psychologist (a psychiatrist will most likely start with drugs) and see if they recommend a psychiastrist.

A good pscyologist should suggest a physical as well as a place to start.

Btw: I've watched the Danny Silk videos. I wouldn't rely on them for the situation you have, esp as you have young children in the house.

[Chris in VA]

Sounds a lot like our house.

I know this may be very, very hard to hear, and almost unbelievable.

It was for me.

 

Get him evaluated for substance abuse by your county counseling service. They may recommend residential treatment. He is violent. He is abusing alcohol. He is isolating. They told us that what a child confesses to, you can usually double, as far as drug use is concerned.

 

Professional help. Doesn't sound to me like once a week therapy (family therapy, not just him) will be enough.

 

I'm so sorry. We've dealt with this for years--son was in 4 treatment programs and is still struggling with sobriety, tho it's a lot better than it was. You can read my posts from last year and the year before about ds18 and see our journey. You can also read my blog, for two years ago and some last year.

 

Wanted to note also that you seem to be adapting to each level of problem--it's a coping mechanism very common in addict's families--you adapt to each level of alarm--things that would have never been acceptable are now seen as "not that bad" because things have worsened. It's dangerous, and it's a symptom that the family is not functioning.

 

:grouphug:

[homeschoolin'mygirls]

Chris in VA wholeheartedly. my nephew has gone down this road--sadly is still going down this road.

How my sister wishes she could have addressed the problems head on when it first began. Becasue of custodial isssues she couldn't. She believes the 'soft' approach only excaberated his addiction.

 

 

Best Wishes for you and your family

[happygrrl]

Sounds a lot like our house.

I know this may be very, very hard to hear, and almost unbelievable.

It was for me.

 

Get him evaluated for substance abuse by your county counseling service. They may recommend residential treatment. He is violent. He is abusing alcohol. He is isolating. They told us that what a child confesses to, you can usually double, as far as drug use is concerned.

 

Professional help. Doesn't sound to me like once a week therapy (family therapy, not just him) will be enough.

 

I'm so sorry. We've dealt with this for years--son was in 4 treatment programs and is still struggling with sobriety, tho it's a lot better than it was. You can read my posts from last year and the year before about ds18 and see our journey. You can also read my blog, for two years ago and some last year.

 

Wanted to note also that you seem to be adapting to each level of problem--it's a coping mechanism very common in addict's families--you adapt to each level of alarm--things that would have never been acceptable are now seen as "not that bad" because things have worsened. It's dangerous, and it's a symptom that the family is not functioning.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree: Chris- I am still praying for your family.

[smrtmama]

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

 

This kid is screaming out for help, IMHO. Not Christian Counseling, or talking with a pastor, or hard physical labor. Psychiatric help, and from someone who specializes in teens/teen boys.

 

Peace and best wishes,

 

astrid

 

Yes. He doesn't need Christian/pastoral counseling here. The reaction to that approach is very likely to be more of what you're already experienced. He needs a psychiatrist with experience dealing with teens.

[Laurie4b]

 

It has got to get to a place where it is about relationship...that he wants to do the right not because he is afraid of getting in trouble, but because of the relationship you have with eachother. The control by punitive means only goes so far and there will inevitably come a time where the child realizes that you no longer control him and then he will act out because he can....sounds like he is getting there. That is what I mean about relationship, it has to be more than action only because he is afraid of consequences, it has got to be action out of relationship.....and empowering him to make good choices all on his own...because he is at an age and a place where he will make his own choices...help them to be good ones.

our Father God loves us so, so much and he wants us to do the right thing because of our relationship..not because we are scared into it.....the book talks about emulating our relationship with our kids on this principle.

 

 

 

 

I don't know how to multi-quote but I agree with the pp who listed out the warning flags of mental illness. The isolation is the most concerning of several concerning symptoms. He does need a substance abuse eval and I would ask the person who did that who they recommend for other issues because bipolar(for instance) plus drug abuse or depression plus drug abuse is different than treating either alone.

 

Parents can only control teenagers who let them--in other words, the real control comes from the teen. So when a parent gets to a point where they see that the process of handing over control gradually has short-circuited, you need to regroup and try a new approach. Punitive consequences or even positive privileges are not your best tools now. Only he can control his behavior. He's smart enough and strong enough and resourceful enough at his age to get around most anything you would set up. So, you will also need someone to work with you about the best way to intervene.

 

The post I did manage to quote above is where you will win or lose him. He's not connected to *anyone* right now and without relationship, there is no incentive for change. It sounds like you are a Christian, so think about Christ. He came totally into our world to win our hearts--while we were still sinners (think about the book--like that--only some of us put white paint on the outside.) You are about winning your son's heart. That's your goal.

 

If you have a gun of any sort in your home, get rid of it today. It sounds like things will be volatile for a while, and you do not want to have the means at hand for life to change in a moment. No ands, ifs, or buts. Doesn't matter if you need to shoot coyotes getting into the chickens or anything else. If you have a gun, it's got to go. Take it to a friend's or relative's some distance away and don't tell anyone in your family that it's gone or where. A gun safe is not enough to keep a teenager out.

[Catherine]

Agree-agree-agree. Stop punishing him and start connecting before it's too late. BTDT, in a different way, and what we did worked, but life was very hard for awhile. Ds soon turning 17 and is a joy.

[TechWife]

This kid is screaming out for help, IMHO. Not Christian Counseling, or talking with a pastor, or hard physical labor. Psychiatric help, and from someone who specializes in teens/teen boys.

 

I totally agree - this is nothing to fool around with. You need to change your family priorities so that this can happen - no matter what.

[TechWife]

I'd start with a psychologist (a psychiatrist will most likely start with drugs) and see if they recommend a psychiastrist.

 

I don't want to start anything here, but in many cases it is necessary to prescribe a medication that will stabilize a patient so that they can get the help they need. There is no reason NOT to start with a psychiatrist and in a situation this serious, it is definitely merited.

[5knights3maidens]

Please get him counseling. I hate to say this but we have btdt and counseling is definitely needed.

[pdalley]

Professional help.

 

I've read the Motley Crue book. I've been a fan of the group forever, and I've been well aware of "the lifestyle", but my stomach was churning through nearly every page.

To hear of his obsession with Nikki Sixx's story is, quite frankly, terrifying. I wouldn't call it glamorized. They shared the nitty gritty filth and terror. He was declared dead. My heart was racing while reading it, despite knowing the outcome. There was no pretty picture painted in that regard.

 

I am not a professional. I do not have teens. But I do think he's sending you a message that is NOT about glamorous rock life.

 

:iagree: Perhaps you could point out the part of the book where Nikki says that he is 'chemically imbalanced'. Nikki is pretty open about all the pain he caused a lot of people during his drug years. Nikki went to intense rehab - work camp in a dessert - and actually was on Prozac at one point.

 

And Nikki died twice. The way I read his story was that he was stunned that he was still alive. I've read both 'The Dirt' and 'The Heroin Diaries' - both were very blunt and pretty horrifying. Nikki says over and over again he was using the illegal drugs to self medicate and not deal with his underlying issues.

 

I would think professional would be the first step. He's crying out for help - IMO.

 

I'll be praying for your family.

[Joanne]

This kind of reminds me of Katie Allison Granju's current situation.

 

Her music playing 18 year old son is nearly dead from a drug deal gone bad.

[ktgrok]

Wow. I agree that he needs counseling, as he sounds nearly suicidal. I also think you need to rethink the punishment. You can't control everything he reads and sees at this age, you just can't, as you are discovering. So ease up a bit while you find him help, rather than drive him further away. Also, I'd give him the guitar back, if nothing else. It would give him a channel for his pain, and something productive to do.

[Starr]

:grouphug:

[Splash]

Outward Bound Intercept program might be a good fit.

[laughing lioness]

I don't want to start anything here, but in many cases it is necessary to prescribe a medication that will stabilize a patient so that they can get the help they need. There is no reason NOT to start with a psychiatrist and in a situation this serious, it is definitely merited.

 

I would just get a psych eval done first before meds are prescribed. Like someone else said, if your son is using (which I would suspect) you can double (or triple, quadruple) what they are really using, based on what they are admitting to. Psych meds = powerful stuff. I'm just wary of meds with kids in particular, but that's just me.

My point isn't one profession is "better" than another. I'm actually thinking you want a professional team, which would include both. The psychologist will most likely have more face time with your son. That's why I would start there. No offense, just my opinion.

[Perry]

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

 

This kid is screaming out for help, IMHO. Not Christian Counseling, or talking with a pastor, or hard physical labor. Psychiatric help, and from someone who specializes in teens/teen boys.

 

Peace and best wishes,

 

astrid

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This poor boy is in terrible pain. I'd stop trying to punish him, and start looking for help.

[Kathleen in VA]

Everyone else has given you excellent advice. I especially agree with the pp who said that your son is in pain and needs professional help. In the meantime - today - I suggest listening to this message from Dr. S.M. Davis called Changing the Heart of a Rebel. You will probably be a little frustrated with it from time to time because you will be thinking, "Yes, I already know that - tell me something I don't know." But I suggest listening to the whole thing and taking some notes because he offers some very practical suggestions for reconnecting to your son and building up your relationship with him. As with all resources, eat the meat and spit out the bones. Dr. Davis says that we lose our children when we are overly harsh and critical and he outlines a plan for reestablishing a warm, accepting, loving relationship.

 

I also agree with another poster who suggested that your dh needs to reprioritize his life so that your son becomes his main focus - not his job. Rescuing your son will require a sacrifice and you must be willing to pay the price.

[Tutor]

You have received excellent advice. The only other suggestion I have (maybe it has been mentioned already and I missed it) is to keep a journal. For four reasons:

 

1) It will help you slow down and evaluate your son, his actions, and your relationship. It will help (although by no means eliminate) the impulsive emotional response from you as you try to learn to deal with his behaviors.

 

2) It will help you see "triggers" or circumstances surrounding his behaviors and will help you see more clearly how he responds over time to future treatment and see how your interactions over time effect both of you. It may also help you fine tune your responses to his behavior to become as beneficial as possible.

 

3) It may help a future counselor/ physician/ analyst in their treatment of your son and in advising your family.

 

4) It may help you, if you ever do need to contact the police, establish a pattern of behavior for your son and help protect you against false allegations of abuse.

 

The first three would be my top reasons for keeping a journal, but the fourth could be a useful bonus.

 

:grouphug: We'll be praying for you all.

[mom2denj]

Wow, you have received some really great and wise advice, and I have nothing to add to all of that, which is most important. I was going to recommend something much further down on the list, however. Perhaps instead of taking away his guitar altogether, you could find a respectable, "cool," yet Godly man who also plays the guitar and who could meet with him weekly. It would be under the guise of a guitar lesson, but it would also give him an opportunity to work under the guidance of a good and "cool" musician who is also a kind and honorable man.

This would serve two purposes: it would help your son see that you are not against absolutely everything that he wants to do, but it would also give him the opportunity to see that he can be a musician and decent at the same time.

 

:iagree:I think that if you could find the right person, this approach could be very effective!

[Purpledaizy]

I agree with many of the other posters here. Skip the pastoral counseling, for now , and get immediate psychiatric help. Pastoral counseling is wonderful for faith issues, but this is very far away from a faith issue. I have seen many young men and women come through this with intensive treatment.

 

I went through a similar time with my daughter. We sent her to live with a dear family friend in a rural area nine-hours away, for seven months, while she went to counseling and sorted out her issues. She is now a well-balanced young woman finishing college with a bright future.

 

I'm am so sorry for the pain you are going through and will be thinking of you. :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Laura Corin]

You've made the behavior MORE attractive, in fact.

 

It sounds like he's an anti-authoritarian kid. You're only pushing him away when you over react to his behaviors. You're feeding it.

 

Laura

[MagistraMichelle]

Thanks for all the great advice. I have wanted to get him help but ds is refusing to 'talk' to anyone. He says he doesn't need it.

 

Despite the fact that it seems as though we have only given out harsh punishments, we haven't. There was much more involved than just getting the book. We simply connected certain behaviors to the book. Forgive as I didn't go into the details of all of that.

 

This isn't 'new' behavior. As I said, he has struggled his whole life with moodiness, irritability, etc. However it has stepped up considerably since 12/13.

 

He isn't using drugs because he can't get them. He has no money as what he earns goes into a savings acct and he can't get to it because of this very problem.

 

But I believe his goal is to use drugs because he said so in his journal. The alcohol isn't available what so ever, so he can't partake of that.

 

He is close to his father. They go to the gym early every morning he is in town. One the weekends we all hang out and go do things together as well as work around the house. He is close to his older sister and they often go do things together. I spend time with him alone too. We have a couple of TV shows we watch that nobody else appreciates, and he looks forward to us hanging out alone and talking. But I don't get out alone with him as my husband does. I think I will give up my knitting night and grab a bite to eat with him or maybe catch a movie, or whatever he wants. Despite all this I still do not think he feels loved and valued. Not sure why. We have had so many heart to heart talks that it amazes me he is acting this way. I guess I am coming to the conclusion that this is a deeper psychological issue.

 

My husband not traveling isn't an option. It's a job requirement. In this economy, I am grateful he is able to provide for us at all . We have insurance and our son will get help because of my husbands work.

 

Christian counseling isn't going to help this boy. Someone suggested he get guitar lessons from a trusted, respectable man.....well he was. He was taking lessons from our pastor. In return for lessons, he would mow his lawn. But, that was cut off due to the obsession with the guitar and Nikki Sixx and not EVER finishing his schoolwork. Add to that he is mean to his siblings and threatening to me. He has been given ample time to correct his shortcomings and regain some independence.

 

No, I do not think he is suicidal. If I did, I wouldn't be asking for help here. He would have gotten help. But this causes me to wonder if he will be. So, this lights a huge fire under me to get in asap with a psychologist.

 

I don't know if we can change his direction, but I will die trying. This was the first child I pulled out of ps after two months in Kinder because he was sinking, emotionally. I am not willing to just sit by and watch him go down in flames.

 

I have to say, sadly, that he is not the only hs young man I know who is having major issues. I am seeing problem behavior all over. I think certain boys get to a point where being home with mommy is not a good thing. They get bored and they are questioning life and beliefs and mommy isn't going to cut it anymore. He is one of those. I could name quite a few, all moms I have spoken to at length to. Most have already 'lost' their young men to the world. They are devastated and I don't want to be there in a few years.

 

So, I will find him some medical help. I don't expect it to be easy.

 

Thanks much,

Michelle

[luvbnhome2]

I see too many signs of mental illness (depression, bipolar, whatever) to suggest anything other than counseling.

 

tears of frustration

limited social interaction

negative thinking

anger

self-medicating (drinking, smoking)

fixating

lying

stealing

 

He needs an intervention. The sooner, the better.

I completely agree! My husband went undiagnosed for years. He self medicated and had much of the behavior you describe your son having. It does not go away and my dh has stuggled with it all of his adult life as well. His mother still has a difficult time accepting that it is more than depression(which she readily accepts as she suffers from this herself)as he has been diagnosed as bipolar. This could have been dealt with so many years ago and it is so sad to me. Please take him to a psychiatrist (or two or three til you get the results that you are comfortable with). I completely understand not wanting to medicate and always hesitate to even give Advil, but in this case, if it can help your child to have a normal life, the outcome may be worth it. It has been a roller-coaster ride around here for years(I have been with husband since I was 17 and he was 23~he had already been dealing with this stuff since he was 15, and depressed from an even earlier age, poor man). It takes a lot of love and understanding, and seeking help will also help YOU to know how to deal with him. Sending many hugs!!!!!!!!!!

[LizzyBee]

Thanks for all the great advice. I have wanted to get him help but ds is refusing to 'talk' to anyone. He says he doesn't need it.

 

I started a post yesterday, then erased it. It went something like this: Run, do not walk, to get professional help, not just for him, but for the entire family. I have seen several families implode because they did not get intensive help soon enough with a child like you describe.

 

But one of my kids went through a major depression/rebellion, and we didn't get outside help. I am wary of psychiatrists and psychologists, because while the right one can make an amazing difference, the wrong one can make things so much worse. My dd may have been suicidal and there were times we did not leave her alone for this reason. She dressed in black, constantly let her hair fall over her face, and was obsessed with blood and death. In addition, she hated me and would draw pictures of nooses in her journal along with writing how angry she was and how much she hated me. (I don't make a habit of reading our kids' journals, but I used to read hers because we needed to know what we dealing with.) I would try to shield her from news stories about teens who killed their parents, because I didn't want to give her any ideas on how to carry out such a scheme. I had numerous talks with her, asking her why she was so angry, and telling her that we love her and we are on her side; we are not the enemy here. We gave her horseback riding lessons even though we couldn't really afford it, because as I told my husband, if she doesn't have something she loves in her life, we're going to lose her completely.

 

Real change began when we forced her to go away with me for a weekend even though she threw a fit, actually several fits, about it. We had a nice time, going to a play, eating out, and talking lots. That was in January. Around that same time, we had several couples who we trusted not to gossip praying for us over a period of several months. That summer, she wanted to go on a mission trip with the youth, and one of the requirements was a preparatory Bible study. Through that Bible study, she began realizing that she needed to make a decision about whether she was serious about God or not. The mission trip was to the poorest town in the US, and this very materialistic girl suddenly realized how nice she has it. She came home from that trip a changed person. Two years later, she is one of the most well-liked and respected girls in our church youth group. God and prayer changed her even though her depression was very deep.

 

We've since found out that Singulair is linked with depression, and she was taking Singulair at the time for her asthma. She knows that in the future, she should not take any medication that may cause depression unless it is absolutely necessary. I have warned her that often, people who have depression once will continue to struggle with it, and asked her to please let us know right away if she ever starts feeling that way again. I hope it was a one time thing caused by adolescence or singulair, but we realize that it may not be.

 

I am not encouraging you not to seek professional help; rather, I think you should. But I want to give you encouragement that if your son refuses to cooperate with outside help, there are people who make it through dark times without it. You could force him, but sometimes that backfires -- although if he continues to threaten the physical well-being of you or other family members, therapy should not be optional. With my dd, I had the advantage of knowing I could take her should it come to that, but I'm assuming that's probably not the case between you and your son.

 

I'd probably give him back the guitar lessons too, even though he doesn't "deserve" them. Horseback riding was therapeutic for my dd, and guitar lessons are probably therapeutic for your son. He needs to have something in his life that he loves, he needs you and your dh to recognize that need, and he needs you and your dh to respect the thing he loves because he equates that with respecting him as a person.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: Teens can be so hard!

Edited May 27, 2010 by LizzyBee

[jillian]

mama, i just wanted to second (and third and fourth and fifth) what other parents here have said....get him serious psychological help. get him evaluated by a psychologist and psychiatrist (both if you don't need a referral). Call the local social services center in your county/city and get some referrals about where YOU and the other family members can go.

 

This is a family problem despite how easy it is to put the blame on one person. i am not saying you or anyone else is to blame for this but his issues (regardless of what it is) will affect EVERYONE in the family. There are resources to get the support you and his siblings need.

 

I was/am bipolar (type 2 so not full blown mania) and it was brought out a lot in puberty. Medication saved my life and my family's sanity. I was doing terrible things that I deeply regret--indiscriminate s*x (and many times unprotected at that), drinking--many times not able to tell you what i did or how i got home, lying and cheating and lots of self-injury.

 

Also I want to say that don't let the "he has to be 18" thing stop you from getting treatment. I was diagnosed at 17 years old as bipolar and it was correct. I needed it to save my life.

 

you have my thoughts and prayers

[tex-mex]

I see too many signs of mental illness (depression, bipolar, whatever) to suggest anything other than counseling.

 

tears of frustration

limited social interaction

negative thinking

anger

self-medicating (drinking, smoking)

fixating

lying

stealing

 

He needs an intervention. The sooner, the better.

:iagree: Have you had him checked out by his pediatrician to rule out depression, ADHD, bipolar or other biochemical issues? I second some type of program like Teen Challenge or Scared Straight -- some ex-user counseling him on the truth behind drugs and alcohol. He sounds very determined and strong-willed? That is a tough call. Hang in there. :grouphug:

[Desert Rat]

prior approach. Soo here goes. He bought an inapproriate book ~ big deal. While I agree that the gutter vaules of your average rock star are nothing to emmulate, you probably only inflamed whatever rebellious feeling your ds was experiencing by taking such an authoritarian approach to discipline. Sometime you don't actually nip it in the bud when you come down hard on a behavior. You've made the behavior MORE attractive, in fact.

 

It sounds like he's an anti-authoritarian kid. You're only pushing him away when you over react to his behaviors. You're feeding it.

 

By stopping his guitar lessons and taking away his clock radio, I think you are making it a forbidden fruit. I was anti-authoritarian as a kid and this type of response would have made me want it all the more. It's JMHO and I don't have teens myself. I just feel like coming down hard on him may not be the right option and definitely isn't the only one available.

Counseling is a great idea. I recommend family sessions as well. You've had a lot of heavy emotions over the past few years.

[jld]

Please restart the guitar lessons, and please apologize to him for stopping them. Please have a soul-searching talk with your dh about ways you may, inadvertently, be making this boy feel disrespected. Then, go together with your dh to your son and give him a heartfelt apology. Ask him what you and dh could do to make him feel loved. Be humble.

 

As emeraldjoy said (one of the best messages I've read on these forums), it's all about building the relationship. Giving your son the knitting night sounds excellent. Just make sure you do something that night that he wants, that he likes, that it is all about him. Sacrificing now could save you years of heartache later.

 

Please consider keeping up, or even increasing the days your son spends with the carpenter, if he likes it. Please don't send him to school. A good friend's son sounds so much like your boy, and it was at school that he got in with someone who started getting him drugs. He wouldn't have had access at home. You will once again likely save yourself some more trouble by keeping him home with you, especially if dh steps up his involvement, and most importantly, if you and dh seek a new, sincere approach to your relationship with him.

 

I cannot echo emeraldjoy enough: it's all about the relationship you choose to build with him.