s/o Anyone surprised by the level of frugality practiced by some of our fellow

[chiguirre]

I don't know. When a pair of jeans is originally $29.50, by the time it is $7.99, well, it's usually not even there long enough to get to that point. The cheapest I COMMONLY see is about $14.99, and it's not like the rest of the line, in the size I need, it sitting right there all together. Am I missing something? :confused:

 

I really like pretty much the entire line that is mostly black, with some tan thrown in there. Oh lord. :tongue_smilie:

 

If you don't mind last year's collection, try ebay. You MUST be disciplined about bidding your highest and NOT raising it, but you can usually piece together close to a whole collection at WalMart prices. It helps that I live in Texas, so our seasons are later than the North and I can pick up "late bird" bargains.

[KidsHappen]

So, would it have been more conservative to use TP and flush only when necessary (smell factor) or to use family cloth and end up with more laundry using more water?

 

I ask a somewhat similar question here. We wipe when we pee and then throw the tp away and only flush toilet when needed. I figure tp disolves fairly easily in a compost or landfill and I save water. I don't have a problem with smells or difficulty clean the toilet. I have never ask about this before because I figured no one else thinks about these kinds of details. Guess I was wrong.

[stripe]

Most of the clothes I buy cost less than $5 each. (!)

 

This is not at Walmart, K-Mart, or a used clothes store. Regular department stores. I bought my daughter a winter coat at Macy's for about $5, at the end of the season, and we've used it for two years already.

 

I am married to an immigrant. I highly recommend it to anyone wanting to really get frugal. ;)

[Peela]

Where I live in Australia, admitedly in a well to do suburb of a state that has a mining boom, we haven't felt the crash at all. I stocked up a year ago, but we eat better now than we did then. We have more spending money too. But that is Australia- many of us have not felt the economic crash much.

 

What has always surprised me though on these boards, where I get educated about U.S. culture, is things like people using disposable nappies as a matter of course, and also using electric clothes dryers as a matter of course.

 

We live well, comfortably, and have always enjoyed buying 2nd hand rather than new for most things. More for the fun and challenge than our of necessity nowadays. The kids dont expect new clothes, ever- and they enoy getting 2nd hand ones (and ocassionally we will buy ourselves something new). But, I do try to limit our footprint, to live as close to the earth as my suburban lifestyle allows, and to be mindful of using unrenewable resources like plastic. But at this stage, it is not out of necessity that I try and live more and more simply- it is just how I prefer to live.

[KidsHappen]

If you don't mind last year's collection, try ebay. You MUST be disciplined about bidding your highest and NOT raising it, but you can usually piece together close to a whole collection at WalMart prices. It helps that I live in Texas, so our seasons are later than the North and I can pick up "late bird" bargains.

 

Also if you go to Goodwill in some of the nicer neighborhoods you can find really good things for really cheap prices. Sometimes items are brand new with tags still on them. I frequently get jeans there because they have some of the older style I like. Also we have a great consignment shop here called Plato's Closet that resells brand name teen clothing at almost goodwill prices. So the girls can get the Hollister, or Aeropostle or American Eagle or Ambercrombie for really cheap.

[Night Elf]

Personally, I am shocked by the utter lack of understanding of what frugality and wise money management is on the part of most Americans.

 

Most Americans? Because of a handful of news stories? And why is frugality the "right" way to live? The "only" way to live? The obvious way to live wherever you are from? Sorry, it's just an attitude that is so mean to project on an entire nation. Personally, my family has enough money to buy food and keep our heat on to be comfortable without bundling up which I find very uncomfortable. I'll not be shamed for that.

[Saille]

But, these same women are appalled (generally speaking) at the frugality espoused by the Hillbilly Housewife (is that right??), involving eating cheap but often empty calories, etc.

 

We strive for frugality, but, for instance, we don't eat cheaply. I consider it a health investment. :)

 

I guess I'm one of those women. However, I'm constantly striving to eat healthfully AND cheaply, and I'm willing to do a lot myself (big garden, raising our own chickens, etc.). I just gave a violent rooster to a friend, but watched the butchering and cleaning and helped with general clean-up after, with an eye to butchering the next violent rooster for my own family's use (I've been a vegetarian for eighteen years, and the kids have never really had meat, so it's a leap for us). I'm looking into buying or borrowing someone's goats to eat down brush around here next summer, so I can get a basic sense of what it's like to care for them before plunging into milking goats so we can have organic dairy.

 

OTOH, it's sometimes hard to talk to the super-crunchy mamas (and I usually think I am one) about unit pricing and whether we really get our money out of DIY livestock management. Some of the mamas I know tell themselves it's cheaper, but don't really check. That tells me that frugality is not the primary goal, even when they say it is. It's like the difference between how many people said they were die-hard homeschoolers when they had preschoolers, vs. how many people actually filed an IHIP once it was time.

 

So yeah, I guess "cheap" is relative, depending on whether you're factoring in the cost of poor or reduced health in the long term, and also depending on how much money you actually *have* to invest in something. Ordering bulk from a co-op would be cheaper, but I don't usually have the advance capital to do so.

[melissel]

Most Americans? Because of a handful of news stories? And why is frugality the "right" way to live? The "only" way to live? The obvious way to live wherever you are from? Sorry, it's just an attitude that is so mean to project on an entire nation. Personally, my family has enough money to buy food and keep our heat on to be comfortable without bundling up which I find very uncomfortable. I'll not be shamed for that.

 

I don't think she was saying frugality is the "right" way to live. She was commenting on what people imagine to be frugality and wise money management. There's nothing wrong with buying the food you want and keeping the house at a temp that's comfortable to you. Personally, I hate wearing sweaters and socks in the house (but I'll do it and more to be able to quit my job).

 

There IS something wrong with complaining that you can't pay the bills but counting your change at the farmer's market to buy a $5 sandwich. I can remember the proliferation of articles and TV news clips about eating on the cheap from when the recession started. What I remember in particular was a news segment on how to make an acceptable dinner for your family of FOUR on $25 (it was something really, really simple, that in no way should have cost $25--even my DH was laughing), and how to find cheaper restaurants to eat in because you're unemployed. That's not real frugality, and it's shocking to see it portrayed that way.

Edited October 21, 2009 by melissel

[Saille]

I'm the potato lady. :-)

 

For me it's all about living within our means and planning ahead for future expenses. I don't want an outside job, I like being at home and homeschooling. Working from home to make money would take away from the kind of lifestyle that our family enjoys. Beside that, making money myself has never given me any satisfaction and often feels like a waste of time.

 

Our lifestyle is not hurting us or our children, in fact I think it is doing them a service to have to think about the limitations of life and how to manage money so that you can live comfortably within your means.

 

When I find another way to save money that's like giving us a raise. We do use tp, and that would probably be one of the last things to go, but if it had to go, I would find an acceptable way to deal with it. If things got that desperate, I'm betting dh would be looking for a better job, or a way to supplement our income.

 

I personally think so many american have lived at an unrealistic level for so many years, we expect waaay more material things than we can actually afford.

 

So, I may be serving potatoes once a day, but I'm also eating homemade chocolate chip cookies and apple pie. My kids are on a bowling league and taking music lessons, we paid off our van, and our credit card, and are working on paying off parent loans. We have low house payment and we are not underwater because we bought our house before the boom, but we are paying 2 1/2 times as much for heating oil as when we moved in, hence the need to keep the heat low. Our van's warranty expired around the time we paid it off (of course) so now we have to plan for repairs to an aging vehicle. We've got one child in college and one nearing graduation, the more we save now, the more we can help them when they need it.

 

I agree with other posters who said we all have our own preferences, goals, and priorities. When our children talk about how much we have in relation to other people, we always ask, "Do you have more than you need?" (yes) "Is there anything you need that you do not have?" (no). Then you are rich. That is our philosophy.

 

:iagree:

 

This sounds very similar to us, if you account for my other post above.

[smrtmama]

Ok, I understand the frugality of this vs buying the expensive diapers. But doesn't that use alot of water. Something my County Commissioner, whom I just had a lonnng conversation with about water shortages and drought, is having a fit about. Washing the diapers 2 times in a full load.

My Mom, who hated cloth diapers, use to soak them in a solution of borax in a bucket after rinsing them in the toilet. Then she washed them with a little bleach in the washing machine. THEN dried them in the sun because she didn't have a dryer. She told me the heat of the dryer sanitized them when I had my children. I tried cloth, and am sorry to say I wimped out.

So back to the water. If the reason for cloth diapers are to be "Green", then wouldn't all that water usage cancel out the benefits?

 

No, because as much or more water goes into the factory production of disposable diapers than goes into the washing of them. We've seen about a $5/month bump in our water bill and a negligible increase in our power bill since beginning cloth diapering 3 1/2 years ago. Your County Commissioner obviously isn't taking into account how much water is used when anything is made in a factory -- or is he only concerned about water in your county, and overall water usage be ****ed?

[melmichigan]

Ok, I understand the frugality of this vs buying the expensive diapers. But doesn't that use alot of water. Something my County Commissioner, whom I just had a lonnng conversation with about water shortages and drought, is having a fit about. Washing the diapers 2 times in a full load.

My Mom, who hated cloth diapers, use to soak them in a solution of borax in a bucket after rinsing them in the toilet. Then she washed them with a little bleach in the washing machine. THEN dried them in the sun because she didn't have a dryer. She told me the heat of the dryer sanitized them when I had my children. I tried cloth, and am sorry to say I wimped out.

So back to the water. If the reason for cloth diapers are to be "Green", then wouldn't all that water usage cancel out the benefits?

 

Todays cloth diapers are nothing like the diapers our parents used. And I mean nothing, even compared to a few years ago when my sister used her cloth. I CD my youngest and use cloth pull-ups and trainers on my DS. I don't do anything special other than a cold rinse before washing in a hot heavy load with biodegradable detergent, with the ingredients on the bottle. ;) (Can't say that about my Tide.) I have an HE washer so it isn't any more water than any other load of laundry and saves me $. I dry mine in the dryer like anything else, and use hemp for my liners instead of cotton. For me "green" was an added benefit. It is just more money that I can use elsewhere in my budget. Even the child care workers at the YMCA were amazed, with velcro new CD's are just as easy as disposable, especially pocket diapers.

 

I also shop very carefully although for new clothes. I rarely spend more than $5-8 on anything, even gymboree, and always resell when the last DC is done with a size to help purchase the next. I just sold and then bought clothes for 4 of my 5 and spent less than $100 out of pocket, for all new clothes for the fall/winter season. It just takes a few extra minutes of stain patrol when putting things in the wash. My kids are always nicely dressed and no one has a clue how little I really spend. ;)

 

All that money I save often goes to curriculum and swimming lessons, and the list goes on...

Edited October 21, 2009 by melmichigan

[secular_mom]

I say you can do both- not flush AND use cloth instead of TP. :) But TP really causes issues for me, so like I said in another thread, I use cloth for health reasons. Any other benefits are just a plus for me. I really don't do any 'extra' laundry for cloth than I would do if I weren't using it. I have certain towels that I use, and when my towels need washed I throw my cloths in with the towels. I don't flush unless it seems needed- too many pees or if it's brown flush it down. :)

[Tammyla]

What I wouldn't do for those thick walls:drool:. We live up in the mid-west in one of those flimsy, Dallas homes. There is no way we could turn the heat off in the winter or the AC during the summer. The winter temps got down to the upper 30's inside during a power outage a few years ago...And yesterday it was sunny and a delightful 58' degree fall day. Last night it was 77' in here and I almost ran outside at midnight to rip the weather coat off the AC unit.:tongue_smilie:

 

Honestly, I've enjoyed cutting back on our expenses and the lean towards being green is the icing on the cake. However...I've been doing this for as long as I can remember simply because it felt right and cost less.

 

My friend with a well and septic tank uses as little tp as possible and the yellow brown flush method for everyone except guests.

 

When I've seen houses being built in Dallas, I'm always amazed by how flimsy they look: it looks like just wood framing and something flimsy to fill in the gaps between. If I lived in one of those, I might well turn the heat down during the day but not off. Is there any move, with rising fuel prices and environmental concerns, to change building standards?

 

Our house is a mixture. The oldest part is stone; the newer parts are brieze block/cinder block. The roof has slates on one part and tiles on another; there's thick insulation in the roof space. The older part of the house is much warmer than the newer - the walls in the older part are about 2'6" thick.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Well on the upside it makes home ownership more accessible to more people. I think that is what it comes down to. The houses are built better in Germany, for example, but they are also a lot more expensive.

 

 

I found that UK and US home ownership rates are about the same at around 70%. Some factors that might influence how well built the homes are that people live in:

 

- the UK has a lot of old housing stock, so many people live in brick-built Victorian houses, which are relatively cheap to buy. Brick isn't necessarily warm, however - it depends on the construction

 

- I suspect (I couldn't find figures for this) that British people expect that the mortgage will cost them a larger proportion of their income, and are frugal elsewhere (reduced car use, cooler houses, less eating out). This is just an impression

 

- More of the owned properties in the UK may be flats - often one floor out of an existing old house - rather than single-family homes.

 

So, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, people make choices about where to spend money. An example: a relative of mine, who lives near London, has a house valued at around USD 800,000. He is a senior computer programmer; his wife is a school administrator. They have two children in state (public) schools. The house is nothing special - it is about seventy years old, has three tiny and one larger bedroom, and about 1/3rd of an acre of garden. The price reflects its location near London. They are by no means wealthy: they run one old car, he cycles to work, they eat out very rarely, they don't use the drier and their house is not overheated, they take one cheap holiday each year and have done up the house slowly over ten years, mostly DIY.

 

Laura

[stacim]

I think it has been mentioned briefly in a post or two, but let's not forget about the potential health risks of disposable products (mainly talking about dipes and feminine care products). I haven't made the switch to mama cloth yet, but plan to after this babe, but I simply don't like the idea of all of the chemicals and man-made materials next to very sensitive areas (mine and baby's) of one's body for extended periods of time. Natural seems like a better solution to me. :)

 

We are definitely frugal here, buying most things second hand or on clearance, clipping coupons (I love free stuff!), keeping the heat down and AC up (not to extremes, though), driving older vehicles, cooking mostly from scratch, eating out very little, cloth diapering (#4 and soon to be #5), using cloth napkins, and the list goes on. We do it out of necessity for the time being, with dh's hours cut at work, but have also been frugal when times weren't as tight. He could look for another job right now, but we are currently choosing not to because of the impact it would have on my father and his business (it is just the two of them working together). I have been a WOHM in the past and would again if I had to (but would definitely prefer not to), but it is not practical right now with me being 26 weeks pregnant. We do things to make extra money on the side (eBay, CL, getting starting in RE investing) to help in tough times.

 

The fact of the matter is, being frugal has become a part of who we are, and even when we do make more money, I already know that I will keep many of our frugal ways. The reasons for our frugality are many and varied, and the lifestyle just makes sense for us.

[Night Elf]

I don't think she was saying frugality is the "right" way to live. She was commenting on what people imagine to be frugality and wise money management.

 

Then I misunderstood and I'm apologizing to her.

 

There IS something wrong with complaining that you can't pay the bills but counting your change at the farmer's market to buy a $5 sandwich.

 

Yes, this is my mom. She used to be so good with money. She was careful because we didn't have alot. Now that she's older, she justifies buying the sun and the moon because she is old and will not have these things after she dies. :confused: She plans to move in with me if her husband dies before her. I have a huge problem with that because of the way she's choosing to live but she won't listen to me. I guess she'll listen if it gets to that point. And lest I sound heartless, there is a whole lot more to her state of mind and is a whole other story.

 

That's not real frugality, and it's shocking to see it portrayed that way.

 

My DH and I were at a hibachi grill restaurant last night (it was our 14th wedding anniversary!), and we were talking to our hibachi chef who was telling us all about Korean family traditions. It was really cool. We were the only ones at the table so we had a wonderful conversation!

[mommyrooch]

Ummm...

dumb question. But does the "family cloth" (TP) get reused? :ack2: All I can think is that is a great way to catch tapeworm. :confused:

 

I was thinking the same thing. Or what about e-coli? :ack2: I don't even use a dish rag again if it's been sitting more that a couple of hours. I never use rags to dry with. We are big paper towel users.

 

I guess I"m just a germ-a-phobe. We will never be using cloth TP in this family. It may be safe depending on how you sterilize them but my mind just won't let me do it. Even the thought of that makes me squeemish. :ack2:

[Erica in PA]

To each their own. I know one reason we rent rather than own is because there are certain things were aren't willing to do. We aren't willing to skimp on good food and we aren't willing to freeze in the winter. I know people who have their own homes who do so because they don't spend money on food and they don't turn the heat on. No thanks.

 

:iagree: I would not be interested in buying a house where we would be freezing all winter. I'd much rather keep on renting until we can afford something we can actually heat. I guess it just comes down to what is most important to you.

[BikeBookBread]

I went to bed dwelling on this post, probably in large part because we had ironically just finished listening to "The Long Winter" by Laura Ingalls Wilder on audio book yesterday.

 

Think about it: we are not many generations removed from the majority of people living this way as the normal way of life. I am very thankful for many of the modern amenities that our forefathers wouldn't have even dreamed of having. But something that Pa Ingalls said stuck in my mind after they had run out of kerosene. I'll paraphrase because I don't have a copy of the book in front of me: all of these modern things are great (coal-burning stoves, kerosene lanterns, etc.) but one becomes used to them, and dependent upon others, forgetting how to be independent.

 

I LOVE my french roast coffee in the morning, soft TP, grocery stores, car, fridge and DEFINITELY my AC, but my dh and have recently also developed a really independent streak, due to a lot of reasons: the economy, moving a lot, wanting our children to learn different values -- just a few of the reasons.

 

I used to look down on "people like that" as "weirdos"...until I became one. I grew up in an very affluent area where the people who shopped at the co-op were considered somehow communist, or at least suspect pinkos. Farmers Markets were even havens of political unrest :lol:.

 

We are nowhere as far along self-sufficiently as many on this board (and I believe that a lot of frugality has roots in self-sufficiency), but I knew something had changed when I was watching a local documentary about composting toilets and I didn't say, "ewwww"; instead I said, "wow...that's interesting and really works for them."

[amy g.]

I just like having choices, and being careful with money makes that possible. We spend a lot on our animals, and our property, but I am completely content to stay here forever.

 

One day, the kids were riding horses in the pasture, and Miss Bossy was playing in the dirt at my feet. The weather was absolutely perfect. I told my sister, "This moment, right here is the perfection of life." I felt so completely happy. She commented on how much it reduces my carbon footprint not to need to fly on an airplane to another country to get that feeling the way that she needs to.

 

We spend a bunch to feed the animals, but we know where our food comes from, and the kids are strong and healthy from the work of taking care of them.

 

We buy only used clothes, except for Dh who shops the major mall sales for his work wardrobe. We don't take vacations anymore because someone needs to be here to take care of the animals, but Dh takes each child on special trips either on the weekend ( He took Mr. Clever backpacking last weekend, and he will take Miss Beautiful fishing next weekend) or when he travels for work. He is in Boston now, and said last night that he really wishes he had taken a kid with him.

 

I make our bread and cheese and yogurt and laundry soap and cleaning spray, and bath soap. We have rice and beans a couple of nights a week, at least. We go out to eat twice a month on payday. We pay cash for vehicles and repair them ourselves.

 

Being careful with our money means that I can write a check for my friend who needs chemo, but doesn't have insurance, or for my cousin who was behind on his child support, or for my cow's giant vet bill. Having those choices make me happy like no amount of new clothes or a fancy house ever could.

Edited October 21, 2009 by amy g.

[chaik76]

I was thinking the same thing. Or what about e-coli? :ack2: I don't even use a dish rag again if it's been sitting more that a couple of hours. I never use rags to dry with. We are big paper towel users.

 

I guess I"m just a germ-a-phobe. We will never be using cloth TP in this family. It may be safe depending on how you sterilize them but my mind just won't let me do it. Even the thought of that makes me squeemish. :ack2:

Agreeing with you here!

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I was thinking the same thing. Or what about e-coli? :ack2: I don't even use a dish rag again if it's been sitting more that a couple of hours. I never use rags to dry with. We are big paper towel users.

 

I guess I"m just a germ-a-phobe. We will never be using cloth TP in this family. It may be safe depending on how you sterilize them but my mind just won't let me do it. Even the thought of that makes me squeemish. :ack2:

 

 

You know, people have the same reaction to cloth diapering which has been going on for millennia and don't take this the wrong way (I'm hopeful :D ) but the revulsion you feel is due purely to a lack of understanding. You are obviously in no way obligated to move beyond it but if you're ever tempted, and you may not be, but IF you are .. please don't inflict it upon others who know what they're doing with this stuff. :D

[BikeBookBread]

I just like having choices, and being careful with money makes that possible. We spend a lot on our animals, and our property, but I am completely content to stay here forever.

......

Being careful with our money means that I can write a check for my friend who needs chemo, but doesn't have insurance, or for my cousin who was behind on his child support, or for my cow's giant vet bill. Having those choices make me happy like no amount of new clothes or a fancy house ever could.

 

Well put. I wish I could say that we were completely at this point, but we're working on it.

[Caitilin]

I was thinking the same thing. Or what about e-coli? :ack2: I don't even use a dish rag again if it's been sitting more that a couple of hours. I never use rags to dry with. We are big paper towel users.

 

I guess I"m just a germ-a-phobe. We will never be using cloth TP in this family. It may be safe depending on how you sterilize them but my mind just won't let me do it. Even the thought of that makes me squeemish. :ack2:

 

Well, you'd never make it in our house! :lol:

We are the most un-germophobic people you'd meet. And, coincidentally or not, we are healthier than most people we know. And we have certainly never had bacterial issues with our use of either cloth dishtowels or diapers and wipes. And we don't use bleach either.

 

On the other hand, my mom told me that she'd heard stats that said that if you regularly eat meat, there's more fecal coliform (sp??) bacteria in your kitchen sink than in your toilet. So, you just never know...:D

:grouphug:

[Caitilin]

You know, people have the same reaction to cloth diapering which has been going on for millennia and don't take this the wrong way (I'm hopeful :D ) but the revulsion you feel is due purely to a lack of understanding. You are obviously in no way obligated to move beyond it but if you're ever tempted, and you may not be, but IF you are .. please don't inflict it upon others who know what they're doing with this stuff. :D

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

great post!

[stripe]

I am not an advocate for or against "family cloth."

 

I think it's amusing that people are so concerned with cleanliness but have no problem having a behind that is covered in germs. I guess it's a policy of containment and avoiding unsavory thoughts. ;)

 

I was thinking the same thing. Or what about e-coli? :ack2: I don't even use a dish rag again if it's been sitting more that a couple of hours. I never use rags to dry with. We are big paper towel users.

Do you use paper towels after a bath?

 

I guess I"m just a germ-a-phobe. We will never be using cloth TP in this family. It may be safe depending on how you sterilize them but my mind just won't let me do it. Even the thought of that makes me squeemish. :ack2:

However, I would respectfully remind people that their underwear have a great many germs that you sit around in for hours every day, especially for those who use toilet paper by itself after a, er, bowel movement.

 

One expert I read emphasized the importance of washing one's hands after touching laundry, for just this reason, and that underwear, towels, and sheets should be washed well.

 

As for tapeworm, if anyone in your house has worms, that should be addressed, and certainly no cloth that touches their rear end, such as underwear or towels, should be shared.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I am not an advocate for or against "family cloth."

 

I think it's amusing that people are so concerned with cleanliness but have no problem having a behind that is covered in germs. I guess it's a policy of containment and avoiding unsavory thoughts. ;)

 

 

Do you use paper towels after a bath?

 

 

However, I would respectfully remind people that their underwear have a great many germs that you sit around in for hours every day, especially for those who use toilet paper by itself after a, er, bowel movement.

 

One expert I read emphasized the importance of washing one's hands after touching laundry, for just this reason, and that underwear, towels, and sheets should be washed well.

 

As for tapeworm, if anyone in your house has worms, that should be addressed, and certainly no cloth that touches their rear end, such as underwear or towels, should be shared.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

Ok, NOW I am grossed out. Thanks stripe. :lol:

[amy g.]

I think it is impossible to really understand why other people spend money in a completely different way than we do.

 

My sister will not pay for health insurance so she can have money for a maid and trips to the astrologer. She thinks I'm insane for having 5 kids when we could have none like she does and have tons of disposable income and free time.

 

I do not see how there is any right or wrong to it. Everyone ought to have the freedom to save and spend according to their own priorities.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

As it has already been said before though, there is a huge difference between doing it because you want to spend the money on other toys/trips/etc than doing it because you live in abject poverty. I don't understand it when people will freeze so they can have more square footage. Again, to each their own, but I don't get that at all. And I know people like that.

 

:iagree:

 

Personally, we just want to live within our means, debt free, with money to spend on the things and causes we consider valuable.

 

It's not always about doing what is cheapest but rather not paying money on what is not needed and has no value to us. I also don't like paying money to create more trash ... unless I have to clean up dog vomit ... I will pay for paper towels for such things (just as an example). :lol:

 

Oh, and most of the cloth users I have come across (diapers, mama cloth, family cloth) are NOT frugal by any stretch of the imagination. You simply can't spend $1500 on designer cloth and be considered frugal. Now at our house, our cloth doesn't consist of bamboo valor and designer prints but I'm just saying ... one is off base if they are linking cloth and frugality as necessarily related. :D

[Mom2GirlsTX]

I'm trying to wade through this huge thread and it is so interesting! I find it is taking me a long time because there is alot to absorb here. It is just not the fact that some are greenier than me, it is the hard work that many of these families do to use less, that is amazing me. So many things I use are convenience items that I never knew were convenience items (rags vs tp, etc).

 

I have tried to live pretty simply the past 23 years, dh and I decided that when we got married.

 

We went vegetarian,organic gardened, decided against chemicals, perfumes, drank filtered water, bought only 100% cotton items, bought used every time we could, stayed out of debt, paid of the mortgage and the cars.

 

I always thought I was frugal, but wow, I'm not at all compared to you ladies. My hat is off to you! I am however, going to look for ways to improve and have some good ideas to think about.

[KidsHappen]

When I've seen houses being built in Dallas, I'm always amazed by how flimsy they look: it looks like just wood framing and something flimsy to fill in the gaps between. If I lived in one of those, I might well turn the heat down during the day but not off. Is there any move, with rising fuel prices and environmental concerns, to change building standards?

 

Our house is a mixture. The oldest part is stone; the newer parts are brieze block/cinder block. The roof has slates on one part and tiles on another; there's thick insulation in the roof space. The older part of the house is much warmer than the newer - the walls in the older part are about 2'6" thick.

 

Laura

 

We live in one of those flimsy houses as does everyone we know including people in TX, TN and GA so I don't think it's a Dallas thing but more of an American thing. It just how houses are built these days even expensive houses. The expensive ones just have more sq. ft. or decorating extras. They aren't really built much better. We have been in our house two years now, I think and I am amazed at the things we have had to fix or replace and it is a fairly new house. There are still lots of things we can do to improve but it's expensive and we have to do a little at a time. Luckily, we have pretty mild weather here in TN and lower utility bills but that doesn't address the usage problems.

[KidsHappen]

I have a huge problem with that because of the way she's choosing to live but she won't listen to me. I guess she'll listen if it gets to that point. And lest I sound heartless, there is a whole lot more to her state of mind and is a whole other story.

 

I fear the day when my kids are telling me, "My house, my rules!" but I fully intend to be just as big a pain in their rear as they are in mine now. :tongue_smilie:

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Oh this cracks me up. I know people like this too. They call themselves green and frugal. I call it a hobby and maybe even fashionable.

 

I have always wondered what their husbands think of them spending their days at home hunting all over the internet for just the right designer fabric for their custom cloth order.

 

I sure know what my husband's reaction would be! :lol:

[kmacnchs]

It makes me wonder though--I hear Dave Ramsey tell people that are having financial difficulty that they either need to cut spending or increase their earning. If one is using the measures above, it seems that cost have been cut far beyond what most would consider. Has increasing earning been investigated with the same dedication that cost cutting has been? I'm trying not to sound naive here. I know that the economy has been hit hard, but there are still ways people have found to earn some extra money or prepare for a career change that offers a higher salary.

 

I'm asking honestly to anyone willing to share, is this a short-term solution to money issues such as a job loss? Or, is this a life style you intend to keep for the near future? Have you considered increasing the income by a job change or moving to a part of the country with a lower cost of living? While I'm all for frugal living, there is a limit to how little one can spend and live comfortably.

 

This is why I never went to a Dave Ramsey thing...because I know the only thing we could do is increase salary (we can't cut anymore than we already do) and that is WAY easier said than done. My dh is a photographer and a nurse. B/c the economy is slow, he has had 1/2 the weddings this year as he did last year. Being a pediatric nurse does not pay as well as if he was a nurse in another field but what are you going to do? That is where his passion is. I have tried to figure out how to make $ from home but have run into scam after scam and wall after wall.

 

That is honestly where I am...don't know about everyone else...

 

btw, not sure if I'm supposed to do this here but If anyone is in NC and is looking for a photographer...http://www.nietophotography.com:D check us out :)

[Hannah]

What has always surprised me though on these boards, where I get educated about U.S. culture, is things like people using disposable nappies as a matter of course, and also using electric clothes dryers as a matter of course.

 

This surprises me as well. We have never owned a dryer and neither have most of our friends. Admittedly we live in a mild climate, but neither of my sisters who live in Europe use their dryers very often. They hang clothes out in summer and even in winter have them hanging to dry in the garage or in the airing cupboard. IIdon't know if this is just because of how they were raised or if it is not done in Europe either, but I did see the neighbours washing hanging on the line when I visited there in summer.

 

Permanent houses here are mostly made from bricks or breeze blocks (of course there are also many huts and shanty towns). The vast majority don't have central heating or air-conditioning. It may be because the actual winter is short (probably 3 months of cold with below freezing night-time temperatures) and daytime temperatures in winter are mild. We just wear warm winter clothing indoors when its cold, sleep in thick pajamas and under warm blankets and get dressed really quickly on cold mornings ;-)

 

We heat with wood or electric heaters in one room. When my sister came out after living in Europe for a few years, she complained that she’d never been as cold in her life!

 

Because of high unemployment (around 23%) and no government assistance, there are many people who live in abject poverty and survival is a daily struggle. Having so many people living in these conditions close to us makes one really appreciate all the luxuries one could take for granted - daily food, shelter, electricity, running water, clothes, money for education, satellite TV, computer access, cars, etc.

[stripe]

You know why Americans must use clothes dryers, right? Besides the obvious fact that then you have to work to hang them up and wait for them to dry, they are considered unsightly. Many newer communities have laws against hanging one's clothes out to dry. (This is true!) It is supposed to be "lower-class."

 

There are virtually no American hotels without a bathroom in the same room, but this is common in other parts of the world. Americans are very convenience-oriented. Pre-made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (with crusts cut off) are available in the frozen food section, and recently I've seen pre-cut apples for sale. Cereal is considered a complicated food item (requires mixing things, a bowl, and cannot be eaten on the run), so cereal bars with a milk-like layer were invented. We've never met a labor saving device we don't like. ;)

[melissel]

You know why Americans must use clothes dryers, right? Besides the obvious fact that then you have to work to hang them up and wait for them to dry, they are considered unsightly. Many newer communities have laws against hanging one's clothes out to dry. (This is true!) It is supposed to be "lower-class."

 

There are virtually no American hotels without a bathroom in the same room, but this is common in other parts of the world. Americans are very convenience-oriented. Pre-made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (with crusts cut off) are available in the frozen food section, and recently I've seen pre-cut apples for sale. Cereal is considered a complicated food item (requires mixing things, a bowl, and cannot be eaten on the run), so cereal bars with a milk-like layer were invented. We've never met a labor saving device we don't like. ;)

 

:lol: All true. I want a clothesline so badly, but I'm also worried about allergies. We all seem to have developed seasonal allergies in one form or another, and DH has the worst time with them. I know clothes dried outside can aggravate that :(

[Deb in NZ]

I grew up in a upper-middle class neighbourhood in Vermont. My mother always used the drier & paper products for most things. Even with 6 kids we still went out to eat regularly, but it tended to be McDs or Denny's. But my parents did drive their cars until they fell appart (usually 15+ years).

 

I moved overseas a couple years after finishing college. In the beginning finding other ways to live was a necessity as I didn't always have the options that were available in VT. When living in Fiji with 2 kids under 3yo, I felt blessed to have a twin tub washing machine. Hanging out our laundry was just a given. Using nappies was expected as disposables were $1/diaper & there was no way we could afford that with 2 in nappies.

 

We've now been in New Zealand for almost 12 years. We moved back to my dh's hometown, so how we live is 'normal' for him, but it took a bit of getting used to for me. I still used cloth nappies with dc#3 as I already had them & I felt that my dc were healthier in cloth. I still hang out my laundry most days, but now we have an automatic washing machine. And we have a drier as well that I can finish off drying our clothes in on wet days. We don't use paper products by choice. I probably go through 3-4 rolls of papertowels a YEAR. (but we DO use TP;)) Dd & I use clothpads for a combonation of health & philisophical reasons. My dc's clothes are hand-me-downs or gifts from my parents. Shoes or uniforms are the only things I may buy new. Food I don't like to skimp on, but we do try to eat what's in season, have a garden, & I watch the sales, cook from scratch, & stock up on favorites when they are a good price. My dc are in sports, scouts, & take music lessons. We choose to give them "experiences" rather than "things" when ever possible. We have only 1 old TV in the house, no Xbox/Nitendo/etc., & no cable TV. We do have over 2000 books in the house :). My dd goes tramping (hiking) a lot, but her pack & boots are from the Warehouse (like Kmart), not the specialty outdoor shop. My kids all have sailboats & sail regularly, but all their boats are old, wooden boats that my dh keeps in working order.

 

I did demand that we live in a house with some sort of heating. Even though we live in a fairly mild climate (i.e. we ususally only get 2-3 frosts a year) I have been colder here than I ever was growing up in Vermont. Houses aren't well-insulated, if they are insulated at all. No double-glazing or central heating. We have a small woodstove that we use in the evenings June-August. It takes the chill off, but doesn't heat the house to what I'd prefer. Often the house is 50F in the mornings when we get up. We just put on more clothes. I found that my winter clothes from Vermont weren't warm enough for living here. I've had to replace all my sweaters with wool sweaters. And I wear slippers inside, something I hadn't done since I was a toddler.

 

What is considered frugal/affluent is determined by culture. When I lived in the Marshall Islands having 24hour running water was considered a luxury & if you had hot water...you were really well off.

 

JMHO,

[chiguirre]

:iagree: with Deb

 

I had a tough time adjusting to just space heater in winter and no dryer when we lived in Buenos Aires. I was much colder than I was in Boston the year before and I hate crunchy socks!

[luvbnhome2]

I just have to step in here and say that after 6 months at a part time job, I am coming back home to stay with tomorrow being my last day. HOO~RAY!!! I can honestly say that my family will gain much more from me coming back home than my being out of the house for 5 hours a day. Our grocery bill has gotten higher from having to buy some convenience foods for super busy days!! I am no longer making our freshly milled whole grain bread and other freshly baked goods. Overall, our meals are just not as healthy as they are when I am home! I need more clothing to go to a job everyday, more make up, the gas to get there, etc. My focus is just NOT on our home as it should be when I am working outside of it. We just do so much better with being careful....frugal.....on one income. I am proud that I can help to make the money that my husband earns stretch farther than it would if we were careless as to how it was spent. I LOVE Goodwill and walking out of there with 4 pairs of jeans at the cost of what one pair from Walmart would be! Namebrand, well made jeans, at that!! I will go to yard sales to buy used items over buying them new at the store and find many things that are brand new or nearly new. And yes, we actually do use family cloth, but only for #1. I do not think of it being any more gross than washing wash cloths and it helps our real tp last that much longer! We use cut up old t-shirts into small squares in case anyone is interested ;)! I use mama cloths, too!! I have a non electric little clothes washing contraption for our clothing that I do our laundry in. Our washing machine died a month ago and we have to save up for one~but it is truly not an inconvenience!! I just wash a couple of small loads a day to try to keep up and find that we do not need near as many clothes by doing this. These get hung on a drying rack over the bathtub (to catch the drips) as they dry. I make homemade laundry detergent except when I can get the good stuff cheaply. I clean a lot with baking soda and vinegar, and bleach if needed. We cook from scratch and often will have several meatless night a week~or I will make something with the meat to make it go further, like chili or spaghetti. I think that teaching our children to be frugal is one of the best lessons that they can learn. I know of too many people whose lifestyles have had to change drastically over the past couple of years and they have had to learn how to adapt to a more simple life. "Tap, tap, tap" I loved your post about the intelligent business man.........this is where we are trying to head with our life~it just about summed it up!!! I will admit that most of what I do comes from being frugal, not really a "saving our earth" mentality~but hey, if I can teach my kids to be better stewards of their resouces in the process~I'll take that too!!!

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I will admit that most of what I do comes from being frugal, not really a "saving our earth" mentality~but hey, if I can teach my kids to be better stewards of their resouces in the process~I'll take that too!!!

 

That's important to us - stewardship of resources which includes money. :

 

 

In response to a few previous posts,

 

When I first moved to the States I was totally shocked over the amount of waste/trash and overwhelmed by disposable everything. After 8 years I'm numbed to it to some degree. The way I live now though was once normal, now it's considered extreme. If I was back in Australia, it would be far more normal again.

 

The way we live has nothing to do with income limitation. We are all for increasing income (although not at the expense of other values).

 

We don't live in a way that sacrifices individual health. In fact, many of the "frugal" things we do are to increase health.

[hornblower]

We've never met a labor saving device we don't like. ;)

 

Which only makes me more puzzled about why bidets haven't caught on.

[stripe]

Which only makes me more puzzled about why bidets haven't caught on.

Ha!!! Maybe because it's offensive to imply our poopy behinds are dirty! ;)

 

I need to rescind my comment about cereal not being easily eaten on the go. This afternoon I saw a passenger in a car (looked like a teenage girl) eating a big bowlful. ;)

[Radish4ever]

I like using cloth diapers/pads/family cloth (including rags in the kitchen and cloth napkins instead of paper) because it's green but also because it's more comfortable and soft compared to the paper/plastic alternatives! For example - the pads "breathe" whereas the disposable kind don't and make me feel itchy and dirty and gross! Cloth wipes are nicer on my DS's bum (velour with a little water versus whatever wipes are made of and all their ingredients which include ALCOHOL - ouch!)... it's more about comfort and practical use than $$

[stacim]

Being careful with our money means that I can write a check for my friend who needs chemo, but doesn't have insurance, or for my cousin who was behind on his child support, or for my cow's giant vet bill. Having those choices make me happy like no amount of new clothes or a fancy house ever could.

 

I loved reading this! There are so many people who wouldn't ever think of this as a reason to be careful with their money. I have thought of it, and although we are not there yet, we hope to be someday.

[caitlinsmom]

I haven't read the whole thread so I am sure this isn't going to fit in smoothly.

 

There are some of us that are frugal because we have to be. Lack of income is the biggest reason for this of course. When I read Dave Ramsey I really liked what he had to say. So little of it had to do with me and my situation though. We have only student loan debt and a mortgage but not a penny more for extras. Why? Havent we looked for better pay? Oh you bet. In fact my husband was working a great job for our area (at $14 an hour!!) for a couple of years. Then he was laid off. We are students (and will be for at least 2 more years) and he is going into a somewhat steady and stable field that will bring in more money. Teaching. We wont ever have half the money that a lot of people do. We wont have a lot of extras ever. Living frugally will always be a way of life with us becacuse of choice and neccessity.

 

For us frugal living is about having control of our life. We choose what to spend our money on and leave the rest out. I dont care if my house is dirtier during the winter because we only heat with a wood stove. I do care however that I am not paying $250 a month for a nice controlled even electric heat. Instead of being at someone elses whims we choose not have credit cards, fancy vehicles, extra utility costs etc. I dont care if I have A/C in the summer, my kids wear name brand clothes, have brand new clothes, or drive a new vehichle. I care more about being able to choose to spend $100 on a family outing that brings us lots of laughter and fun.

 

Our frugality was a way to deal with economic hardship at one time, now it is a choice. We dont want our children to think that they cant possibly exist without new clothes, cell phones and laptops. We dont want them to think that because a certain thing is easy its better. Thats just not the case with nearly everything in life.

[Blessedfamily]

WTM board members?

 

We use coupons, cut male family members' hair, and watch grocery costs. I'm all for frugality. However, I admit I'm taken aback by some of what is posted here. Cloth t.p., dressing in winter clothing indoors, serving potatoes for every meal, etc. are surprising cost-cutting measures to me.

 

Of course, if one must do this in order to have food to eat, I would do it, too. It sounds like this is the case with these posters.

 

 

 

Well, as I started the thread about keeping warm indoors in winter, I'll clarify again. I'm not really frugal. I don't generally use coupons, I spend a lot on groceries because we buy organic, etc.

 

I can afford to heat my house (which I do generously). I'm just colder than everyone else in the family, and generally send the heating bill soaring while everyone is comfortable (wasting gas, really). I can do that, and it's not a choice between eating and not eating.

 

I do have a neighbor who is vocally frugal- but then she owns several homes. Some people like to spend their money on different things, it doesn't mean they have to do it to survive.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Blessedfamily

[Desert Rat]

Questions like this drive me nuts. Even after tons of research there doesn't appear to be clear cut answers.

 

This is my reasoning as well. We live in the desert southwest and have been in a severe drought for as long as I can remember (8yrs+). I only run full loads of dishes and laundry. We reduce shower times to 5 minutes and have converted almost all of the grass to xeroscape (desert landscape). We don't wash our cars in the driveway but take them to car wash where the water is reused. Cloth diapers wouldn't be ecologically sound where I live. Elsewhere maybe.

 

In answer to the OPs original question. Yes, I'm extremely surprised at the lengths some people here go to to save money. I applaud their tenacity and willingness to live more simply. I'm not necessarily going to follow their lead but I enjoy seeing how other people live and teaching my children about the variety of people out in the world. (Also how lucky we are to have TP instead of family cloth :tongue_smilie:)