College Professor Critiques Homeschoolers

[creekmom]

I would love to hear your responses after reading the following:

 

 

 

 

College Professor Critiques Homeschoolers

copyright 2009 by Greg Landry, M.S.

 

I teach sophomore through senior level college

students - most of them are "pre-professional"

students. They are preparing to go to medical

school, dental school, physical therapy school,

etc.

 

As a generalization, I've noticed certain

characteristics common in my students who were

homeschooled. Some of these are desirable,

some not.

 

Desirable characteristics:

 

1. They are independent learners and do a great

job of taking initiative and being responsible

for learning. They don't have to be "spoon fed"

as many students do. This gives them an advantage

at two specific points in their education;

early in college and in graduate education.

 

2. They handle classroom social situations

(interactions with their piers and professors)

very well. In general, my homeschooled students

are a pleasure to have in class. They greet me

when the enter the class, initiate conversations

when appropriate, and they don't hesitate to

ask good questions. Most of my students do

none of these.

 

3. They are serious about their education and

that's very obvious in their attitude,

preparedness, and grades.

 

Areas where homeschooled students can improve:

 

1. They come to college less prepared in the

sciences than their schooled counterparts -

sometimes far less prepared. This can be

especially troublesome for pre-professional

students who need to maintain a high grade

point average from the very beginning.

 

2. They come to college without sufficient

test-taking experience, particularly with

timed tests. Many homeschooled students have a

high level of anxiety when it comes to taking

timed tests.

 

My advice to homeschooling parents:

 

1. If your child is even possibly college

bound and interested in the sciences, make

sure that they have a solid foundation of

science in the high school years.

 

2. Begin giving timed tests by 7th or 8th grade.

I think it is a disservice to not give students

timed tests. They tend to focus better and score

higher on timed tests, and, they are far better

prepared for college and graduate education if

they've taken timed tests throughout the high

school age years.

 

In the earlier years the timed tests should allow

ample time to complete the test as long as the

student is working steadily. The objective is for

them to know it's timed yet not to feel a time

pressure. This helps students to be comfortable

taking timed tests and develops confidence in

their test-taking abilities.

 

Greg Landry is a 14 year veteran homeschool dad

and college professor. He also teaches one and

two semester online science classes, and offers

free 45 minute online seminars..

http://www.HomeschoolScienceAcademy.com

 

_____________________________________

[OnTheBrink]

I think he has some legit points. If a student is interested in a career in the sciences, they should most definitely get a solid foundation in that area. And, tests are a part of college life. Being prepared for them can't be a bad thing.

[Dana]

I agree.

 

The "desirable characteristics" are ones that will take a person far in life. I'd really like students like that in my classes. (I also teach at a cc.)

 

The need for timed tests is a skill students should have. I've had students tell me that before getting an interview, they had to take reading, writing, and math tests. It's important to know where to go to find information, but it's also very important to have basics at hand.

 

I'm planning on sending my son to the cc for at least biology and chemistry in high school so he can get more lab experience than I can provide.

[shinyhappypeople]

I think he makes some really good points that I'll keep in mind as my girls get older. I think that these types of critiques are really helpful.

[LoriM]

I'd agree with his assessment...students need stronger science backgrounds (investigative science, where they have researched and contributed to a long term project, as well as strong foundations knowledge base), and also need test-taking skills. I don't know that I'd isolate that to weaknesses among homeschoolers, however, but all students. We emphasize science in my home (I am a classroom science and math teacher), but my own two children could still use more work. :)

 

My older dd has maintained a 4.0 in all her college coursework and graduates in Dec 09 with a BA in mathematics (minor in art). She received a shock in her first Physics test (76) and a shock in her first Chemistry test (76! also). From there in each course, she buckled down, filled in her gaps, and made sure she could work quickly and accurately. She managed to recover from low starts in both those courses, and still make an A. While she has made a few grades lower than an A on tests or assignments, she has easily navigated any writing-intensive coursework across the spectrum, and built her abilities for time-limited assignments over the course of her college career.

 

I think the benefits of homeschooling high school far outweigh the challenges, and those challenges can certainly be overcome at the college level.

[Miss Marple]

I would agree completely with his assessment. It echoes comments I've heard from my sons' professors and what I've seen in our co-op.

[1bassoon]

I absolutely agree.

 

About 4 years ago, my dh and I heard Inge Cannon speak. She related a story that woke us up:

 

She happened to know the director of admissions at the Air Force Academy. He called her one day and said he had a problem. He had admitted 3 homeschool graduates (this was in the late 90s, early 00s) - they were all terrific kids. Great test scores, personable, great grades, the whole nine yards.

 

They were all failing, 6 months later.

 

Why? They could not hold to deadlines. They were simply unable to meet deadlines set by other people.

 

And I know that I struggle, and continue to struggle, with that very thing. Life takes hold, and I'm just toooooo tempted to give extensions. One of the best things my ds did this spring was take a class designed to prepare himself for the local science fair. He absolutely thrived on the dealines that were given to him.

 

Like any educational delivery system, homeschooling has strengths and weaknesses. The key is to be aware of them, and work on the areas that are weaknesses.

[Pretty in Pink]

I agree with his assessment.

[Chris in VA]

Wow--I thought he was balanced and complementary!

 

(But how does one interact with a pier?) lol

[Desert Rat]

As do I. I started giving my ds9 a few timed tests this year and it totally freaked him out. I plan on making it part of our school so he gets used to them. I already knew about the science because I've got science-y kids!

[2cents]

I have to say he has very valid points. Many of the hs'ers that I know do not give their children exposure to testing. I personally feel that if you plan on having your child attend college, testing is something they need to be comfortable with. I also think that there may be a tendency in homeschoolers to treat science as not as important as math or language arts. I know we've had to make a concerted effort to spend time on science and not let that be a subject we let fall by the wayside.

[AuntieM]

I agree. I am going to have my sophomore son read this. AF Academy is on his list of possible colleges.

[Orthodox6]

I can find no points in the professor's assessment with which I disagree.

[creekland]

I very much agree with his assessment and have worked to be sure my boys don't fall into his 'negatives.' For what it's worth, the ps kids will soon be 'catching up' on not being able to take timed tests. In our school, those are going the way of the dinosaur with kids being allowed as long as they want - even several class days (meaning plenty of time to go home and check out answers or ask a neighbor) - to complete a test.

 

It's nice to see a good, well thought out, critique for a change, albeit, with typos (I'm certainly not perfect there, so those don't bug me).

[LG Gone Wild]

He is so right on about test taking. Sciences...perhaps. I am not there yet. I didn't start doing real science until junior high. I have to admit, it was pretty awesome having a lab. The science labs was the best memory I have of public school.

[Supertechmom]

I agree. We test every year simply so they have experience taking a time test from someone else.This year our science courses for the older kids have tests that I intended to time them on. I also have initiated two Presentation days in our support group to address deadlines. We hand out the topic (one is art/poetry and the other is history/math and then we hold a science fair) For the middles school and up, we have guidelines (neatness, content, explained well, understandable, etc...) that a little team of adults go around and "grade" the projects on. It helps to give them the idea of working toward an end date and that someone else will be in charge of their grade. Plus, they have to stand up and give an oral presentation on their project. I think it all helps by exposing them in a non threatening way so they will not be shell shocked later. It can be quite daunting to suddenly wake up and realize you have to get something done on time and have some random person grade you on it.:001_huh:

[Impish]

Excellent points he brings up. I'm absolutely going to bring some time constraints to Diva's testing this year. I'm not worried about her science though, as she's taking 3 yrs ahead course work and going for her gr 9 science credit. She asked to start 'serious science' now, so that she can do all the sciences...biology, chemistry, physics at the highest highschool level, rather than having to pick one as happens most of the time.

 

I plan to hire a University student for the chem and physics at higher levels...Unless something gels in my head that I can understand them :lol:

[Jean in Newcastle]

What a refreshingly good and balanced article. I like that he gives specific recommendations of what we (as a group) could do better. Obviously there will some people who might have been doing it all along. But far too many of us have not been. Fortunately science has been a priority all along for us. But timed tests- that's one I need to add to the curriculum.

 

Now - my kids do take the SAT test every year that is timed. Does that count? Or does it have to be something like a timed math facts test?

[unsinkable]

I would love to hear your responses after reading the following:

 

 

 

 

College Professor Critiques Homeschoolers

copyright 2009 by Greg Landry, M.S.

 

I teach sophomore through senior level college

students - most of them are "pre-professional"

students. They are preparing to go to medical

school, dental school, physical therapy school,

etc.

 

As a generalization, I've noticed certain

characteristics common in my students who were

homeschooled. Some of these are desirable,

some not.

 

Desirable characteristics:

 

1. They are independent learners and do a great

job of taking initiative and being responsible

for learning. They don't have to be "spoon fed"

as many students do. This gives them an advantage

at two specific points in their education;

early in college and in graduate education.

 

2. They handle classroom social situations

(interactions with their piers and professors)

very well. In general, my homeschooled students

are a pleasure to have in class. They greet me

when the enter the class, initiate conversations

when appropriate, and they don't hesitate to

ask good questions. Most of my students do

none of these.

 

3. They are serious about their education and

that's very obvious in their attitude,

preparedness, and grades.

 

Areas where homeschooled students can improve:

 

1. They come to college less prepared in the

sciences than their schooled counterparts -

sometimes far less prepared. This can be

especially troublesome for pre-professional

students who need to maintain a high grade

point average from the very beginning.

 

2. They come to college without sufficient

test-taking experience, particularly with

timed tests. Many homeschooled students have a

high level of anxiety when it comes to taking

timed tests.

 

My advice to homeschooling parents:

 

1. If your child is even possibly college

bound and interested in the sciences, make

sure that they have a solid foundation of

science in the high school years.

 

2. Begin giving timed tests by 7th or 8th grade.

I think it is a disservice to not give students

timed tests. They tend to focus better and score

higher on timed tests, and, they are far better

prepared for college and graduate education if

they've taken timed tests throughout the high

school age years.

 

In the earlier years the timed tests should allow

ample time to complete the test as long as the

student is working steadily. The objective is for

them to know it's timed yet not to feel a time

pressure. This helps students to be comfortable

taking timed tests and develops confidence in

their test-taking abilities.

 

Greg Landry is a 14 year veteran homeschool dad

and college professor. He also teaches one and

two semester online science classes, and offers

free 45 minute online seminars..

http://www.HomeschoolScienceAcademy.com

 

_____________________________________

 

 

peers?

[jujsky]

It's refreshing to see a balanced homeschool article. I agree with everything he is saying. I don't agree with standardized testing/timed testing as a rule, but if your child might be college-bound, he/she is going to face them at some point.

[Stacia]

I agree w/ what he's saying & I always enjoy reading/hearing critiques & constructive criticism.

 

I know one of the best skills I had when leaving high school & entering college was the ability to write a coherent, well-argued, gramatically-correct paper in less than one hour. We had to do that every other week in my literature class, answering one random discussion question about the literature we had been studying the previous two weeks.

 

The ability to perform under pressure (& time-constraints) is often a fact of life in our society.

[Supertechmom]

 

Now - my kids do take the SAT test every year that is timed. Does that count? Or does it have to be something like a timed math facts test?

 

I hope it counts as so many tests are now in that type of format but I wonder if he means the ability to take a test in a class room time limit? I remember in college we only had an hour or hour and half to write a paper or take a math exam. Finals were a little longer time limit. I'm wondering if we should incorporate something like that into our homeschool where they only have this amount of time to write that English paper or take a math final.:confused:

[KingM]

This is useful information. I think the timed test thing, in particular, is something that might not otherwise occur to a lot of HSing parents.

[justamouse]

I think he makes some great points. I planned on using Apologia Biology for science this year, microscope, dissection kits and all just for this reason. When I wsa in HS my teacher was also a college prof and we did fetal pigs and everything. I can see how the kids would need it. And timed tests are just a fact of upper level schooling. It's only good that homeschoolers learn those sets of skills, too.

 

I actually had to time my daughter to write reports because she is such a slow worker. I was the only way to make her hustle. But she is also going to start taking some CLEP tests and those are 90 minutes (plus the PSAT, SAT and ACT).

[1bassoon]

I agree w/ what he's saying & I always enjoy reading/hearing critiques & constructive criticism.

 

I know one of the best skills I had when leaving high school & entering college was the ability to write a coherent, well-argued, gramatically-correct paper in less than one hour. We had to do that every other week in my literature class, answering one random discussion question about the literature we had been studying the previous two weeks.

 

The ability to perform under pressure (& time-constraints) is often a fact of life in our society.

 

You make a good point. That's one of the reasons I picked TOG as our curriculum - my eldest dd has the 3-point essay, timed, down flat.

[dangermom]

Yes, I think he makes some excellent points. Science is one of the most difficult things to do well at home. I'll definitely be keeping these points in mind as my kids get older.

[Pamela H in Texas]

servin, I think he's talking more about the ability to do things like finish a 25 question science test in a 40 minute class time (assuming the average 6th grader's science class is 50 minutes but they have to turn in homework and "settle in").

 

My kids are SUPER fast (inappropriately so, imo). However, so am I (my last several finals have all had 40 to 120 questions and I didn't spent a whole half hour on them--all of them had a 2 hour limit). We have talked of ways to slow down, be more careful, check work, etc. But I can see how setting time limits would help with most students.

 

I was a little surprised that pre-professional students wouldn't have had a solid science education. There are so many good curricula available and then we have options through distance learning and community colleges also. There really isn't much excuse to not have most kids, but ESPECIALLY ones that would need strong academics later on prepared enough. The skeptic in me wondered if saying that was part of trying to sell something though I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

[CookieMonster]

Thanks for sharing! Interesting read.

[Miss Peregrine]

I agree with the article.

 

But, piers? :001_huh:

[lilbean05]

peers?

 

Exactly. He spelled peers wrong, which in my opinion makes the article less official. He makes good points, but as someone in a position of authority, he should have edited his work better.

[Kathleen in VA]

Wow--I thought he was balanced and complementary!

 

(But how does one interact with a pier?) lol

 

Chris, this is what caught my eye, too.:D Criticizing homeschoolers and can't spell peer? He's right, but, goodness, pier?????!!!!! Arghh!!! I know, I know - get a life! I can't help it. It's a blessing and a curse.

[Chris in VA]

Yes, Kathleen--I thought of you as I wrote my comment! lolol

[G5052]

but I agree with his assessment anyway (but not his spelling!).

 

I've been an adjunct professor at local community colleges for some ten years now, teaching computer science and information technology. I wouldn't broad-brush homeschooled kids, but I do see some problems. I just finished the summer semester, and among those who attended the entire semester, both my top and bottom student were homeschooled. The bottom student clearly was struggling with deadlines and managing a heavier workload, and I think that she had outside committments that was making it pretty hard for her to keep up.

 

Over the years, most of the students who come to me for help with planning their projects are almost all homeschooled, and so are those who bomb my first exam and tell me that they had no idea how to study for it. Of course there are older adult students who need help with the same type of thing because they've been out of school for so long, but it's rare for a 16-20 y.o. to ask for help planning or studying unless they've been homeschooled. Most of my public- and private-schooled students in that age range do OK with that as along as they make the time.

 

It's sobering, isn't it?

[Kareni]

...

 

(But how does one interact with a pier?) lol

 

Yes, I have to admit that 'pier' jumped out at me, too! He does make some good points though.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Kathy in MD]

Wow--I thought he was balanced and complementary!

 

(But how does one interact with a pier?) lol

 

If one is a marine biologist, one communicates with the organisms living attached to the pier. If one is a structural engineer, one studies the wear and tear of the tides, waves ad age on the pier. And if one is a beginning boater, one crashes into it. :lol::lol::lol:

[gingersmom]

I thought it was stupid.

 

There were so many generalizations in there. What makes him an authority on homeschoolers in college? Has he talked to other professors at different colleges/universities?

[OH_Homeschooler]

I agree with it but also thought there were maybe too many generalizations. But maybe he's right.

 

I will not judge him for using pier for peer. Even the most educated have a slip-up sometimes. It doesn't mean he really thinks that's how it's spelled.

 

I've seen many many people criticize homeschoolers for their spelling on message boards, etc. and I HATE it.

[gardening momma]

(But how does one interact with a pier?) lol

:lol:

[Rita]

The skeptic in me wondered if saying that was part of trying to sell something though I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

He is selling something. Click on the link at the bottom of the article. He's a homeschooling dad AND a college professor. He also runs his own science camps. My guess is that's why he was suggesting that children needed a "better" science foundation. That being said, I don't disagree with what he has to say, just question the motivation behind it :)

 

 

Greg Landry is a 14 year veteran homeschool dad

and college professor. He also teaches one and

two semester online science classes, and offers

free 45 minute online seminars..

http://www.HomeschoolScienceAcademy.com

 

_____________________________________

[Jean too]

I think he is probably on point. Greg teaches at ASU in Boone, NC and offers science camps and classes on the campus of ASU for homeschoolers. My dd has attended one of his anatomy and physiolgy camps. It was a wonderful experience for her. I got to sit in on the dissection of a sheep's uterus. Cool stuff! I recommend his A&P camps if your child can handle being around cadavers.

 

His children were homeschooled as well.

[Elizabeth Conley]

Dear friends,

 

Perhaps I should not say this, but then perhaps it needs saying.

 

The English language is difficult.

 

"Complementary" means 1 : relating to or constituting one of a pair of contrasting colors that produce a neutral color when combined in suitable proportions 2 : serving to fill out or complete 3 : mutually supplying each other's lack 4 : being complements of each other <complementary acute angles> 5 : characterized by the capacity for precise pairing of purine and pyrimidine bases between strands of DNA and sometimes RNA such that the structure of one strand determines the other.

 

While "complimentary" means 1 a: expressing or containing a compliment <a complimentary remark> b: favorable <the novel received complimentary reviews>2: given free as a courtesy or favor <complimentary tickets>.

 

It happens to all of us, all the time. It's devilishly difficult to communicate perfectly in written English. Furthermore, I'm betting that we're going to see more errors now that so many of us are "spell check dependent".

 

I suspect that the good professor is not an English major. Let's cut him some slack.

 

He's given us two tips that I instantly recognize as absolutely applicable to my rising 8th grader. I'm taking his advice.

[gardening momma]

I will not judge him for using pier for peer. Even the most educated have a slip-up sometimes. It doesn't mean he really thinks that's how it's spelled.

I agree. I just thought Chris in VA's comment was funny. I liked the article.