Birthday present for a snotty teenager?

[springmama]

Okay. My dd is about to be 15. This week she has been extremely mouthy, argumentative, and so unbearable we can't be in the same room for 5 minutes. If I ask her something, remind her to do a chore, or do not allow her to do something she asks to do, then she argues. Not once this week has she responded appropriately to anything I've said to her, even when I'm just trying to make conversation.

 

Don't worry. I'm not "allowing" this behavior. She's got lots of consequences and that doesn't seem to sway her.

 

However, her birthday is coming up on Sunday. She has been asking for a new ipod. She needs one with 16gb because she has so much music and is running out of space on her old one. She's planning a fun day with friends and ice cream and burritos from taco bell (her favorite).

 

At this point, I'm ready to call the whole thing off. She's acting like such a spoiled brat that normally her weekend would be called off immediately upon such behavior.

 

I HATE that she does this to herself. It's all within her control and she does not have to ruin her weekend by being rude to her family. She could choose to behave and have a nice weekend with her friends.

 

Just a few minutes ago, I called a local guitar teacher. He is "the one" you go to around here if you want guitar lessons. The best of the best. Her lessons were scheduled for Fridays at 3:30, every week. I thought she'd be happy and thankful. The only time slot he had was Fridays at 3:30. She was lucky he had time for her at all.

 

Well, she came downstairs just a minute ago and I happily told her that I signed her up for guitar lessons and told her the details.

 

Her response? "That will ruin my weekends. I want to hang out with my friends on Fridays. Who is this guy? Is he old? I don't want to learn from someone that doesn't want to teach me"

 

I had to call him back and cancel our lessons.

 

I am so mad I cannot stand it. THIS is why she is not homeschooled. Every single thing I say to her is like this.

[NorthwestMom]

I would call the whole thing off until her attitude and behavior improve. IMO, you were correct to cancel the guitar lessons, and I would not attempt to reschedule them or pay for them in the future. If she wants them, she can plan and pay for them. It will show her maturity.

 

As for the birthday, I'd give her the iPod, a cake at home, and the chance to invite a friend to our home to celebrate with her, and otherwise she'd be grounded at home. I think firm boundaries around inappropriate behavior are a kind of gift you give teenagers while they figure out their place in the word.

 

Good luck!

[Starr]

My dd 15 says cancel with the friends. We go by the policy at our house that if you can't be nice to your family you need to spend more time with them. :) Good luck! I know it's hard.

[gingersmom]

I would give the I Pod as a Christmas present.

 

I think until she has a serious attitude adjustment she should have limited time out with friends, etc.

 

My daughter is only 12 and every once in a while I get a glimpse of the evil teenager.

[Impish]

I'd completely cancel everything but breathing, eating and sleeping for her until she snaps to and cans the attitude.

 

Sorry, but that's the first reaction that comes to mind. We've done that with Diva, our 10 yo that was getting a mouthy attitude. Complete grounding, room stripped, no privileges at all. We've made it clear that anything other than eating, sleeping and breathing are a privilege, and until she corrects her behaviour, they will be a rare thing indeed.

[herbalgirl]

I agree with Cadam. There are a lot of hormones raging at this point in time. Your daughter may not even know why she is acting like this. No, it is NOT an excuse, but I do think you should continue with the birthday (as in cake, ice cream, IPod, but no friends to sit around and sulk with about how "life is sooooo bad!")

 

You already cancelled the guitar lessons, and I think you should remain firm on that.

 

Good luck. My kids are all very young, but I remember being a grouchy, moody teenager. It is tough for everyone involved. ((hugs))

[Tap]

I would cancel her party with her friends and let her know I will reconsider next month if her behavior improves vastly between now and then. I would tell her I have a present for her, but again, until the attitude changes (and I mean for a month or so, not a few days), I am keeping it. I wouldn't tell her what the present is, and don't buy it so she can't find it. If she has a cruddy attitude she can either start deleting songs, or stop buying them. The same songs will still be available when she decides to start acting appropriately.

 

I would have a small family cake, ice cream, movie night or whatever you can put together, but family only (I would consider 1 friend who may be like family to her).

 

But if the attitude didn't stop now (!) then her freedoms would start getting very limited. If she wants to act like a 2yo, then she can be treated like a 2yo.

[springmama]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm glad to know my first reaction is not over the top mean and cruel. I don't even know how we'll have a pleasant birthday with her sulking about how much she hates us and how her life is so horrible.

 

I think we are going to wait til Christmas for the ipod. She already has a way to listen to music..it's not something that would be all that useful to her anyway.

 

I cannot wait for school to start. She absolutely horrid to be around.

[5kidsforME]

Do you think she might (eventually) do better being HS? I wonder if her friends are a bad influence on her and that is the last thing you need right now. This attitude/entitlement must be coming from somewhere and it doesn't sound like it is coming from home.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Two years ago, ds12 was like this. We cancelled his friend birthday party. He did not have the capacity for it. We did not cancel his birthday. We had a small family celebration. He didn't have as many gifts because of course his friends did not give him any (they tend to only give one if there is a party). But we gave him a gift that we felt like he had capacity for.

 

So my question is: does she have the capacity to appreciate a friend birthday party? That means appreciating that it is a privilege and even a gift from you to provide one for her. Even if she is doing the party, I would still consider it a gift from you since you are providing the venue and food etc.

 

Does she have the capacity to appreciate the IPod? Not as an entitlement but as a grace gift from you. It doesn't mean that she has to be perfect in order to "earn" it but it does mean that she needs to be able to appreciate your generosity in giving it to you. If she doesn't have the capacity now, it doesn't mean that she won't have the capacity later (I like the idea of saving it for Christmas).

 

When I cancelled ds12's party two years ago, I did not berate him or shame him. I simply told him that he did not have the capacity for it at that time. I told him very matter of factly. Over time (months even) we talked about what it meant to have capacity. I reminded him again at Christmas and then this year at his birthday.

[springmama]

Nope. Her friends are homeschooled and they do not speak to their parents the way she speaks to me. They try to talk her into being nice to our family. They are all really good kids. Heck the only reason she's allowed to hang out with them is because they are such good influences. I check them out thoroughly.

 

Homeschooling would be a disaster. She questions everything I ask her to do and everything I do around her. Everything everyone does is apparently meant to inconvenience her or offend her or cause her some form of harm.

[Tree House Academy]

I am in the "wonder what is bugging her" camp. I seems she is responding to some peer pressure or starting to really mess up her priorities. I would not mess with her birthday as that is a good cause for total resentment. However, I would let her know that "weekends" with friends are, from now on, contingent upon good behavior with family. If she can't be kind and polite in your house, then she will not be allowed to leave it it "hang with friends." I also think maybe getting someone who can helpl you deal with her behavior may be a good idea. Sometimes counselors can tell you better ways to handle things so that the strife is not there all the time. I say this because I went from the ages of 13-18 literally loathing my mother. We actually yelled and screamed, pulled hair, and once had a fist fight of sorts. It was absurd and I totally ran all over her because she let me. If there is one thing I don't want to repeat with MY sons, it is that! I should have had more respect for my mother, and likewise, she could have had a bit more respect for the stage I was at in my life at the time.

 

15 is TOUGH. I am definitely not envious, nor do I want to hurry up and age my kids so I can be in your shoes. *hugs*

[5kidsforME]

Nope. Her friends are homeschooled and they do not speak to their parents the way she speaks to me. They try to talk her into being nice to our family. They are all really good kids. Heck the only reason she's allowed to hang out with them is because they are such good influences. I check them out thoroughly.

 

Homeschooling would be a disaster. She questions everything I ask her to do and everything I do around her. Everything everyone does is apparently meant to inconvenience her or offend her or cause her some form of harm.

 

Have you ever thought about tomato staking her? Basically keeping her at your side at all times until she changes. I know it would be really hard for awhile but I can only imagine her attitude will only get worse as she gets older and any illusion of control you had will be totally gone.

[Danestress]

Honestly, she doesn't need an ipod. She has an ipod. She just wants one with more GB. I'd keep that in mind for Christmas. If you want to give it to her, I don't think it's "wrong" to do so, I just don't think you should feel obligated if money is tight.

 

Are you concerned that there is more going on here than just being a brat? Does she need an evaluation for a mood disorder? ADHD? PMS? Allergies? Anything. I'm not big on always assuming that children who act like brats must have some biological reason, but I would just want to think about that and try to rule it out.

 

If you are pretty sure she's just being a brat I would take a 2 pronged approach

 

(1) "When you are rude to someone, they don't let you use their stuff." Since she's probably using some of your "stuff" (tvs, computers, cell phones, the car when you drive her places, your money, your time) this gives you some power. My son understand that if he was rude to me, I wasn't going to say much, but when he asked me to let him on the computer (password protect that baby!) I would say "No. You were so rude to me earlier, so no, you can't use my stuff today." It was tough, but over time he got used to it and learned a lot more self control.

 

Same when she asked for a ride somewhere, or the use of a phone. I would take any cell phone away, by the way, and let her "check it out" (from you, like from the library) for a couple of hours in the evening on days when her behavior was acceptable. If her behavior reminds good (and I mean really good - like polite to you and her siblings, pleasant, helpful and gracious) I would extend the period everyday that she gets to keep it. Then if she's a brat again, it goes right back to no time for a day and then an hour or two the next. If she's not going to obey that, cancel the darn plan or take the phone and lock it away.

 

(2) the second prong is a lot of love. Love her. Ask her her opinion. Take her out for coffee. Be nice. Even if she's been a brat, you be nice. Take away the privilege, but still show love. Refuse to get into debates (it helped me that I, like you, had younger ones around). But really really try to find moments when you can laugh at her jokes, compliment an effort, ask her opinion, etc. And getting back to the gift thing, can you give her the gift of a weekend away, just to two of you (or just her and her Dad if you think she would rather?) Maybe go to a city with a sporting event or performance she might like, or go to a spa or something.

[springmama]

Jean, you are absolutely correct and I like your way of putting it. She does not have the capacity to appreciate an ipod.

 

The one she wants is about $150. Considering her "pay rate" for doing extra chores around the house is around $5, I wonder if she equates that with $30 hrs of work. I wonder if she'd be willing to do that work and earn one.

 

I think she's getting a book for her birthday and maybe some cash instead.

 

She just apologized. I really hope she meant it and that things are now going to calm down around here now.

[lgm]

We've been through this with the ipod. With this vision, your child will end up owning one ipod after another, as she accumulates hours and hours of media....then she'll have to figure out which ipod to use when. My take is that the ipod doesn't have to be the storage device for ALL the media a person owns - just the storage device and playback device for what will be used in the short term that doesn't already reside on the internet (i.e. youtube videos). We can store owned media on another device and download to the ipod as needed. So.., I'd look at how many hours of media she has, and if it's more than she can consume in a week (9 hrs, possible more if background music is used), I'd go for a hard drive over another ipod.

 

On the guitar lessons..her reply sums up the importance of guitar in her life...it's not. I would not look for lessons with someone else for at least a year, and then she would be paying for it as well as doing the arranging.

 

I would be cancelling the Friday afternoon chill party plans unless the group is doing something meaningful.

 

The present: I always give a book as well. I'd think I'd go for "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens".

[swimmermom3]

This is my 16-year-old dd's take on the situation:

 

1. Is there something going on with your daughter, some unknown pressure that you don't know about? Maybe a neutral space and time for conversation could shed some light on her current attitude.

 

2. Her rude response to the guitar lessons could be translated as, "I'm not really comfortable in a one-on-one situation with an unknown, older, adult male." Eew. She just may not have the ability to articulate her concerns. Or then again her response was just inappropriate.

 

3. Mom defines in writing what constitutes a bad attitude and rude behavior and what the consequences are. The effort put into writing shows that you are serious, you've thought about it and you are willing to back it up. My dd said it's too easy as the teen to shrug your shoulders and say, "I don't know what you mean about my attitude."

 

4. Go ahead and let her have the party. However, beforehand, spell out how the behavior has affected the family and that you expect her to make it right. This would mean that when the party's over, lots of work and no privileges until you, Mom, are satisfied. But again, spell out your expectations in writing.

 

I don't know if this helps. We haven't had much of an issue with dd. That's why I asked for her perspective.

[springmama]

Thanks everyone. I've gotten some great ideas from this thread.

 

Wondering what is bugging her?

 

hormones and lack of sleep. She naps in the day and likes to stay up late at night. She sleeps maybe 2-4 hrs in the daytime and then 2-4 hours in the night and that is pretty much it.

 

I've told her she can have friends over this weekend if a) she can manage to stay up all day today and sleep an appropriate number of hours tonight and b) behave and be pleasant to the rest of the family.

 

If she can't do either of these things, then the plans are off and all she will get will be a cake and one friend coming over.

[PineFarmMom]

When I cancelled ds12's party two years ago, I did not berate him or shame him. I simply told him that he did not have the capacity for it at that time. I told him very matter of factly. Over time (months even) we talked about what it meant to have capacity. I reminded him again at Christmas and then this year at his birthday.

 

That is such a good way to look at it!! I so appreciate the word "capacity" now!! I don't have much to offer the mom except prayers for patience, but I sure like what Jean said!! :) Wise!!!

[swimmermom3]

 

Wondering what is bugging her?

 

hormones and lack of sleep. She naps in the day and likes to stay up late at night. She sleeps maybe 2-4 hrs in the daytime and then 2-4 hours in the night and that is pretty much it.

 

 

This caught my eye. Have you talked to your pediatrician? Your daughter sounds like she could be twins with my niece. I'm probably way out on a limb here, but you might want to look at this.

[Danestress]

Does she have an untreated (or hard to treat?) sleep disorder? Or is she staying up on purpose and then sleeping during the day?

[cmarango]

I cannot wait for school to start. She absolutely horrid to be around.

 

In addition to finding out what is going on with her, I think that you may need to really boost you efforts in "loving her." Make sure that you are doing everything possible to show unconditional love to her during this tough period. It is not going to help your situation if you are subconsciously communicating the above thoughts to her. Maybe think of this as the second toddler hood - inject some humor, offer quiet time, and give lots of hugs when it's all over.

 

Just remembering what I needed when going through this phase.

 

Christina

[amsunshine]

Does she have an untreated (or hard to treat?) sleep disorder? Or is she staying up on purpose and then sleeping during the day?

The sleep thing worries me, too. Teenagers need lots of sleep -- what is she doing when she is up at night? My teenaged niece used to stay with us from time to time and always seemed tired during the day. I started noticing, when I woke up in the middle of the night, that she was awake in her room either texting her friends on her phone or instant messaging on her laptop.

 

It seems to me that your dd shouldn't be sleeping so little at night. That issue needs to be addressed, whether it's a sleeping disorder (which could be related to depression, as a symptom of depression is insomnia), or some other thing that is occupying her night-time hours.

Edited July 14, 2009 by amsunshine

[ereks mom]

...the guitar lessons. If I gave her an iPod at all, I'd give it as a Christmas gift.

 

Explanation: In our family, we do not normally give birthday gifts. I let the birthday boy/girl help plan the menu for a special birthday dinner. Each person usually chooses his favorite foods, and we enjoy the meal together as a family. We'll usually also have a family game night or family movie night (at home). The special meal and family time is the only "gift". An iPod is very expensive (in our family's economy, anyway ;)) and would be one of those things the dc might hope for as a Christmas gift instead. As for the guitar lessons, in our family, music lessons are a required part of a well-rounded education, not something to be given as a reward or withheld as a punishment for bad behavior.

 

Okay. My dd is about to be 15. This week she has been extremely mouthy, argumentative, and so unbearable we can't be in the same room for 5 minutes. If I ask her something, remind her to do a chore, or do not allow her to do something she asks to do, then she argues. Not once this week has she responded appropriately to anything I've said to her, even when I'm just trying to make conversation.

 

Don't worry. I'm not "allowing" this behavior. She's got lots of consequences and that doesn't seem to sway her.

 

However, her birthday is coming up on Sunday. She has been asking for a new ipod. She needs one with 16gb because she has so much music and is running out of space on her old one. She's planning a fun day with friends and ice cream and burritos from taco bell (her favorite).

 

At this point, I'm ready to call the whole thing off. She's acting like such a spoiled brat that normally her weekend would be called off immediately upon such behavior.

 

I HATE that she does this to herself. It's all within her control and she does not have to ruin her weekend by being rude to her family. She could choose to behave and have a nice weekend with her friends.

 

Just a few minutes ago, I called a local guitar teacher. He is "the one" you go to around here if you want guitar lessons. The best of the best. Her lessons were scheduled for Fridays at 3:30, every week. I thought she'd be happy and thankful. The only time slot he had was Fridays at 3:30. She was lucky he had time for her at all.

 

Well, she came downstairs just a minute ago and I happily told her that I signed her up for guitar lessons and told her the details.

 

Her response? "That will ruin my weekends. I want to hang out with my friends on Fridays. Who is this guy? Is he old? I don't want to learn from someone that doesn't want to teach me"

 

I had to call him back and cancel our lessons.

 

I am so mad I cannot stand it. THIS is why she is not homeschooled. Every single thing I say to her is like this.

[Gretchen in NJ]

My dd 15 says cancel with the friends. We go by the policy at our house that if you can't be nice to your family you need to spend more time with them. :) Good luck! I know it's hard.

:lol:I love it.:lol:

I would call the whole thing off until her attitude and behavior improve. IMO, you were correct to cancel the guitar lessons, and I would not attempt to reschedule them or pay for them in the future. If she wants them, she can plan and pay for them. It will show her maturity.

 

As for the birthday, I'd give her the iPod, a cake at home, and the chance to invite a friend to our home to celebrate with her, and otherwise she'd be grounded at home. I think firm boundaries around inappropriate behavior are a kind of gift you give teenagers while they figure out their place in the word.

 

Good luck!

:iagree: I would call the party off. I would only have a small family party and a thoughtful gift from the family. If she already has an I-pod, I don't think she needs another one IMHO.

 

I would not have cancelled the guitar lessons. You gave into what she wanted. You were very nice and generous by setting up the lessons. She was ungrateful and nasty to you.:glare: Then, you gave her the gift of cancelling the lessons.:001_huh: I would have added another one on Saturday until her attitude improves.;)

[stripe]

2. Her rude response to the guitar lessons could be translated as, "I'm not really comfortable in a one-on-one situation with an unknown, older, adult male." Eew. She just may not have the ability to articulate her concerns. Or then again her response was just inappropriate.

 

Yes -- when I was a teen, I infuriated my parents by refusing to continue with music lessons because my teacher (male in his mid 30s) gave me the creeps. He did things like massage my shoulders. Ugh.

 

I definitely think she needs MUCH more sleep. Lack of sleep is strongly associated with antisocial type behavior.

[Michelle in AL]

I have 15 yr old sometimes snarky dd. She is also the oldest, as I noticed yours is too. I think some special headstrong characteristics go along with being the oldest. They need to be shaped and molded, and then the head strong ways can actually be an advantage.

 

First thing that helps my dd: Sleep. This age needs 1012 hrs sleep per night minimum. I would lovingly discuss the importance of this, tell her how you've noticed she's not sleeping enough and that you know she must feel edgy from this. Then I would have a reasonable teen bedtime (11pm here) and take up all electronics if you can't trust her not to listen to music or text in bed.

 

I notice first thing when dd doesn't sleep well.

 

2nd: The thing that helps my dd the most is special attention from me. I restricted computer use to the living room only so we can at least all be together and talk. We have family night once/week doing something everyone might enjoy. I take her to a movie, lunch or ice cream occasionally. It's hard to love a prickly teen, but it's the only thing along with a ton of patience that I've really seen work. Your dd is also the only one not hs'ed. Is it possible she might resent the time you spend with the little ones?

 

I have to make an effort to reach her each day. When she's rude, I point it out and tell what alternative I'd like to hear instead. If it's repetitive then I take away privelages (sp?).

 

I'm right there with you, I hope the turn around the corner is coming up soon!

[CLHCO]

This was interesting to read. I have two 15yo daughters and asked them. Their first response was simply to cancel the time with the friends.

 

I asked my daughter what she thinks I would do if she asked for a new iPod, when she already has one, because she has too much music. The conclusion was that I would say no but not until I got off the floor from laughing. (One has an iPod she saved for off ebay. It's used and has limited storage but since she has no money for CDs or iTune purchases, it has plenty of room.)

 

My point with this is simply a lighthearted way of suggesting that perhaps she's developed an unfortunate entitlement mentality that my kids can only dream of with our budget. She cannot value what she has if it's handed to her on a platter. If this is an ongoing battle, consider supplying nothing more than what the law requires - food, clothing, shelter. She can work for whatever else she wants.

 

This can apply some to friends. She has aligned her identity and loyalty with them, not with her family. Perhaps she needs to look at them as a privilege as well, not an entitlement. My daughters would love to spend more time with their friends also, but they have commitments with the family that take priority. When they can be with their friends, they are all the more excited.

[swimmermom3]

When she's rude, I point it out and tell what alternative I'd like to hear instead. If it's repetitive then I take away privelages (sp?).

 

I'm right there with you, I hope the turn around the corner is coming up soon!

 

I think is an important point that is all too often easy to forget. We will tell our children not to talk "like that" without giving specifics as to what they could say to get their point across. There is a difference between disrespect and a lack of the appropriate communication tools.

[lgm]

Thanks everyone. I've gotten some great ideas from this thread.

 

Wondering what is bugging her?

 

hormones and lack of sleep. She naps in the day and likes to stay up late at night. She sleeps maybe 2-4 hrs in the daytime and then 2-4 hours in the night and that is pretty much it.

 

quote]

 

I saw a huge difference in sleep and behavior in my teen boy when cross country season ended last year...after that, getting out for daily aerobic exercise became a priority here and he went back to being a nice kid that could get to sleep at a reasonable hour. Also watch the diet.

 

Does she have an exercise routine? Perhaps a good gift would be a teen membership to the Y or tennnis lessons or a good pair of running shoes or an aerobics tape plus step....

[littlebug42]

This sounds much like me when I was a teen, and I can tell you that there was nothing wrong with me - I was just a brat and I always took it out on my mother. My mother would have still given the ipod, had the party and I would have continued to treat her badly. If this were my daughter, I would cancel the ipod and the friends. I would acknowledge the birthday with family. I hope your daughter has not just apologized to make it through her birthday plans and will revert to poor behavior afterwards. That is what I would have done.

[Laurie4b]

You're in a vicious cycle. She's not respecting you and you don't like her.

 

I think it's important to get out of bad behavior, consequences, more bad behavior, more consequences, etc. You've said that you aren't "allowing it" so I"m assuming that you are consistent in consequences. However, that's not working. A typical reason for it not to be working is when there is an element of revenge in the misbehavior. As adults, we tend to think, "Why doesn't she do xyz, then life would be so much more pleasant for her and everyone else." We think of pleasantness as the reward. However, not all behavior is directed at such a straightforward goal. Some behavior can be about who has power (and the power to make adults angry can be quite entrancing to some kids). Revenge is another powerful motivator. She's mad at you, she gets back at you--if she succeeds in getting back at you, then she's actually rewarded and it's worth the loss of privileges, etc.

 

When things are not getting better, don't intensify what you're already doing. Look for an alternative. I'd suggest both parents take her out to dinner and talk about what's happening at home in an open way, making it clear that you are trying to solve the problem, including getting her input into defining the problem. You can then choose some solutions. Taking her out to dinner gives her some positive relationship time with you. It also makes it much less likely that voices will be raised, etc. (If she would raise her voice in a restaurant discussion despite the social inpropriety, then you're probably better off to go to therapy for help working things through.)

 

This has worked well for our family when we've gotten into a negative cycle. As a parent, though, you have to be open to hearing that you are contributing to the problem and be open to fixing your part of it, as well as expecting your teen to be open to acknowledging their role in the problem and contributing to the solution.

I also used to work with troubled families, and the most common pattern was the bad behavior, punishment, more behavior, more punishment, etc. pattern. Some undeserved positive relational connection can do wonders to turn that around.

[Dobela]

Hormone imbalances can also cause sleep problems. Actually, they can cause all of the problems you described. In my 20s and early 30s I could have been described just like your daughter many times. And it wasn't an intentional way to behave. When I finally found a gyn that would work with me, I for the first time had my hormones balanced and for the first time I felt good about myself, good in general - like was in control of my own body. When my hormones were off balance, I was rude, suffered from insomnia, depressed, and so on. At times I was a walking explosion waiting to happen. Then, when you combined hormones with MSG - well, it was just not a pretty sight.

 

While I don't believe she should get off free for her behavior, I also think that you may want to explore more organic reasons for her behavior as well. If it is being caused by a medical problem that can be addressed, do so.

 

As far as guitar - I wouldn't have scheduled any lessons like that without asking her opinion first. At 15 she should have some say in those type things (IMO).

 

And, I honestly want you to look at yourself and how you respond to her. If you think her repsonse will be bad,then it will - even if it wasn't really.

 

Counseling may also work for both of you. An impartial 3rd party can be the best thing on earth sometimes.

[Carol in Cal.]

But then, my DD is only 13. So what do I know?

 

To me, though, cancelling established birthday plans is the kind of really drastic punishment that is the stuff of 'my parents always hated me' legends for the rest of her life. Gently, I think it's too much. I know it's horrible to live with someone who is treating you hatefully, but I think that you should try to separate out the reaction to that from the birthday party issue.

 

I don't know about the IPOD, not knowing your family situation financially. It seems weird to me that stuff would just go on the IPOD and stay there and fill it, but some people seem to really like having 'the latest'. I'm not one of them; I like to get a tech item, learn it well and then use it to death, not changing to another except kicking and screaming.

 

I think you did right to cancel the guitar lessons, if she didn't want to go. I think her reasons for not wanting to go were specious, but if you can't make a kid treat their teacher respectfully, no one will be happy with the results and it's a complete waste of money.

[brehon]

This can apply some to friends. She has aligned her identity and loyalty with them, not with her family. Perhaps she needs to look at them as a privilege as well, not an entitlement. My daughters would love to spend more time with their friends also, but they have commitments with the family that take priority. When they can be with their friends, they are all the more excited.

 

[bolding mine]

 

I think this, along with the lack of sleep, is really contributing to your dd's attitude. Have you ever read Gordon Neufeld's Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers? If not, I highly suggest you check this book out from the library and both you and your dh read it. As Laurie4b wrote unfortunately, there is a negative dynamic right now between you and your dd.

 

Also really work on your dd getting a *full* night's sleep (probably 10+ hours) and take away all electronics if you need to. Studies have shown that using electronics (computer, phone, etc) can actually ramp up the brain making it harder to settle into those important routine sleep patterns. In addition, you might want to make sure she's getting enough exercise. Most people focus on boys and physical work; but, I think it's very important for girls, too. Maybe you and she can walk together, swim laps, weight train, aerobics, Pilates, [fill in the blank] together.

[Aunty Social]

You've gotten lots of good advice already. I just wanted to reiterate that your daughter needs more sleep. My 15yo is a......not pleasant person to be around........when she doesn't get enough sleep. She will go to bed anywhere between 8-10 pm and not get up until 8-9 am. The other thing I've noticed this summer is that when I assign her housework, she's happier (even if she grumbles when told to do something).

 

So, ramp up that sleep - start enforcing a bedtime and take away any distractions. Also, give her some "real" work around the house. Not just a "take out the trash", but have her clean the bathroom from top to bottom, or have her vaccum and dust the entire house. Or have her plan and cook a meal (or a weeks worth). I also second the recommendation to have her get more exercise. It helps to regulate their hormones, tires them out so they can start to sleep better, and as they feel stronger, they feel happier.

 

My dd15 isn't perfect, and sometimes will give me a bit of attitude. I've noticed, though, that it is almost always related to lack of sleep, lack of proper nutrition, and lack of something "real" to do.

 

Best wishes as you deal with this. Teen attitudes sure can stink!

[Sparkle]

This is an interesting article that was in our paper last Sunday, about teens and sleep (or lack thereof): http://www.sacbee.com/livinghere/story/2013653.html

 

I'd strongly encourage your dd to get more sleep at night.

[Haiku]

I also have a 9th grader who goes to public school, equal parts because she has severe learning disabilities that I couldn't address and because her attitude is such that I need the break from her.

 

In the situation you described, I would definitely cancel the birthday party. Celebrate her birthday as a family.The birthday needs to be acknowledged for what it is, a special day, but she doesn't need the privilege of a party right now. I would still give her a present, but she doesn't "need" a bigger ipod. I would get her a smaller yet more personal gift or, better yet, take her out to do something special just with you.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

Yes -- when I was a teen, I infuriated my parents by refusing to continue with music lessons because my teacher (male in his mid 30s) gave me the creeps. He did things like massage my shoulders. Ugh.

 

 

Why didn't you tell your parents he made you uncomfortable?

 

Tara

[TraceyS/FL]

[bolding mine]

 

I think this, along with the lack of sleep, is really contributing to your dd's attitude. Have you ever read Gordon Neufeld's Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers? If not, I highly suggest you check this book out from the library and both you and your dh read it. As Laurie4b wrote unfortunately, there is a negative dynamic right now between you and your dd.

 

Also really work on your dd getting a *full* night's sleep (probably 10+ hours) and take away all electronics if you need to. Studies have shown that using electronics (computer, phone, etc) can actually ramp up the brain making it harder to settle into those important routine sleep patterns. In addition, you might want to make sure she's getting enough exercise. Most people focus on boys and physical work; but, I think it's very important for girls, too. Maybe you and she can walk together, swim laps, weight train, aerobics, Pilates, [fill in the blank] together.

THis is a great book - and i got bombarded and didn't get to read it all before someone else requested it at the library.

 

And sleep. LOTS more sleep.

[Cindyg]

To me, though, cancelling established birthday plans is the kind of really drastic punishment that is the stuff of 'my parents always hated me' legends for the rest of her life. Gently, I think it's too much.

 

I gotta agree with this, not from my parenting experience, but from my teenage experience, which I remember very well. I was certainly more bonded with my friends than my parents, and even as a parent now, I look back on that and understand why: My friends were kind and accepting. My parents were harsh, judgemental, never pleased with me, and always doing things like canceling my birthday parties.

 

(I'm not saying YOU are any of these things. But it's likely that your daughter perceives that you are.)

 

Admittedly, I haven't parented a teenager yet. But I do wish my parents had tried harder to -- I don't know, I'm searching for the right verb here, and it's not coming to me -- But it would be the opposite of canceling my birthday party.

[Kathy in MD]

Is there something about turning 15? I refused to buy a present for NOT-so ds because he'd been so nasty. His father bought him one, otherwise it would have been nada.

[HRAAB]

Our limit on birthday presents is $20 to $25; I would go ahead and give her a present. If you normally spend as much as an Ipod would cost, I would give her the present. But, she might be losing it the minute she mouthed off again. ;)

 

Sorry you're having such a bad time.

 

Janet

[coralloyd]

You might want to write her a letter on her birthday, stating all thing things you love about her and how special she is to you. This might soften her a little.

[Mama Bear]

Since gaining my second born, I've had to reframe much of my parenting. This one is often contrary because she was born that way. When I've been most able to sit back (emotionally) and lead our interactions with empathy, these are the times we've had our very best interactions.

 

IMO, among the benefits of being the grown-up is having as my very own experience that emotions can and do sometimes overwhelm good sense, making it difficult for even the most self-possessed among us to be gracious.

 

So... I would sit with her, maybe in the dark, because kids spill all kinds of stuff when they don't have to look at us, and ask, oh so quietly, if she's okay. Even if she's cranky at first, I'd give her at least twenty minutes with me asking leading questions (maybe make a list before), so I could get a solid grip on her state of mind. There's a big difference between a kid who needs help handling the enormity of hormonal heck and emotional immaturity, and one who is really working, with intent, at being the hardest person to deal with.

 

Sometimes, that one I mentioned before can be hard to read that way. Thus my advice. ;). So far, what I'm seeing is that she still needs waaay more calm and sorta oblique input from me than one might think a kid this age would. Or maybe one might expect exactly this much -- maybe more. Anyhoo, it's reinforced for me that anything I can do to keep our relationship from becoming adversarial is a good thing. Especially if it means that we get those "teachable" moments covered.

 

JMO, YMMV, yadda yadda. And hugs and prayers.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Mama Bear
Tiny touchscreen

[CLHCO]

You might want to write her a letter on her birthday, stating all thing things you love about her and how special she is to you. This might soften her a little.

 

I loath sounding psychological, but in truth, it probably depends on the kid and the issues. I had a difficult relationship with my mother (mostly my issues, not from particularly bad parenting or anything) and I would have hated it. I would have tried harder to be ugly to avoid such an outreach. I *really* doubt it's that far with the OP's daughter but it does happen - I was there once.

 

I believe it was that book "Hold on to your Kids" that touched on why, but it may have been a different one. Kids sometimes place full loyalty to peers and the culture and see their parents as the adversary that is getting between them and the object of their loyalty. The parent's loving attention can become unwelcome and backfire, feeling they are being disloyal to the other if they give in to the emotions of the parent. Perhaps deep down I would have wanted to hear I was loved, but I still would have reacted the opposite of softened. Just a word of caution on assuming emotive expression solves everything. Hopefully the caution is completely unneeded.

[SonshineLearner]

Well, some teens have their clocks off. I'd tell her that you're limited in what you'll talk about until Saturday. I'd give her a gift card.... I'd tell her that she can go to be when she wants, but up at 10am or something...and list out the chores... If she's sulky...there's nothing like doing hard physical work on Saturdays (all day) with the dad...just not on her BD.

I'd let her friends come, but explain before hand that if she's disrespectful, that the party will be cut short. Try not to react too quickly... Try not to embarrass her...

Think about keeping her home next year. Think about some counseling for dealing with this. I like the book Love and Logic for Teens...

 

Carrie:-)

[Orthodox6]

Nobody **NEEDS** 16 gigabytes of space for music. Nor does one even **NEED** an iPod. These are "wants", not "needs".

 

You have received good suggestions for how to handle the birthday party. Mostly, I hope you and your dd can work your ways, together, toward a better relationship. She will value that so much in future years !

[stripe]

Why didn't you tell your parents he made you uncomfortable?

 

Tara

 

I did.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Nobody **NEEDS** 16 gigabytes of space for music. Nor does one even **NEED** an iPod. These are "wants", not "needs".

 

You have received good suggestions for how to handle the birthday party. Mostly, I hope you and your dd can work your ways, together, toward a better relationship. She will value that so much in future years !

:iagree: Great post. Think green.;):D:D:D