Young Adults Loving at Home- Chores

[Χά�ων]

What chores are reasonable to expect a young adult (early-mid 20's) to do around the house in the following situation?

 

Not paying rent or contributing financially in anyway to the household.

 

Does not pay any of their own bills, not even cell phone or anything related to transportation.

 

Not in school or any job trainig program and has no plans to be. Has not attended in the past.

 

Works part time and has no plans to go full time.

 

They are not trying to launch a business.

 

They are not volunteering.

 

They are not taking steps to increase their own independence, such as learning to use public transportation - they do not drive.

 

They do their own laundry. However, if there are like items that they could include in with their items (pretend they use a full load to wash three items) they will take those items out of the washing machine and throw them on the floor. To wash their personal 3 items. 3. Three. They will not put the like items back into the washing machine.

 

 

What is reasonable to expect from a person this age in this situation?

[unsinkable]

This is a step-child, right?

 

What does her dad think?

[Catwoman]

Typo alert -- Your thread title says "loving at home" rather than "living at home."

 

Have you been using my iPad again??? ;)

[Χά�ων]

This is a step-child, right?

 

What does her dad think?

I am asking the Hive for outside perspective. :)

[Catwoman]

What chores are reasonable to expect a young adult (early-mid 20's) to do around the house in the following situation?

 

Not paying rent or contributing financially in anyway to the household.

 

Does not pay any of their own bills, not even cell phone or anything related to transportation.

 

Not in school or any job trainig program and has no plans to be. Has not attended in the past.

 

Works part time and has no plans to go full time.

 

They are not trying to launch a business.

 

They are not volunteering.

 

They are not taking steps to increase their own independence, such as learning to use public transportation - they do not drive.

 

They do their own laundry. However, if there are like items that they could include in with their items (pretend they use a full load to wash three items) they will take those items out of the washing machine and throw them on the floor. To wash their personal 3 items. 3. Three. They will not put the like items back into the washing machine.

 

 

What is reasonable to expect from a person this age in this situation?

It is reasonable to require this young adult to either go back to school full time or get a full time job.

[Χά�ων]

Typo alert -- Your thread title says "loving at home" rather than "living at home."

 

Have you been using my iPad again??? ;)

Your iPad is a bad influence on my phone ;)

[unsinkable]

I am asking the Hive for outside perspective. :)

Well, IIRC, there have been quite pointed threads dedicated to the differences in this situations with blended families, hence my question.

[Catwoman]

Your iPad is a bad influence on my phone ;)

Sorry. I keep telling it to knock it off, but you know how iPads are. :D

[MotherGoose]

Child needs to move out or be your servant. And there needs to be curfews and restrictions and other things to encourage child to move out. I just cannot imagine this scenario. I didn't want to live at home with my parents because they would have treated me like a teenager, with curfews, chores, etc. As an adult, I can understand. I don't want dh coming in past my bedtime regularly either. It appears from this post that child is living a life of freedom and privilege with no responsibility.

[wonderchica]

I would expect them to move out, frankly.

 

To stay, I'd expect some type of financial contribution, or to enroll in full time school. Chores- yard work, cleaning up their space, dishes, grocery shopping....

[barnwife]

Well, my oldest is only 6.5, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I'd tell the child to pay rent or move out. Or work full time with (perhaps) no rent but lots of helping around the house. And by lots of helping, I mean doing whatever mom/dad want/need them to do. Both regularly scheduled chores and spur of the moment things.

FWIW, that's exactly how my parents would have treat me as an early 20s person at home.

[Garga]

Require rent to be paid and for the person to handle their own transportation.

 

I'm not sure you can deal with the fact that the person won't do chores. Not sure how to force that to happen. Actually, not sure how to get the rent out of them, unless you threaten to kick them out and are willing to do so, which would be very, very difficult (for the birth parent at least.)

[Catwoman]

You have enough on your plate already without having to be a bank, a maid, and a laundry service to a young adult who isn't actively working toward a self-sufficient future.

 

If she had some sort of special needs, I would feel differently, but it sounds like your step-dd is taking advantage of the situation and that's not fair. It's also not doing her any favors because she is locked in a holding pattern.

 

Also, couldn't she live with her mother?

Edited April 7, 2017 by Catwoman

[maize]

Is this person in good health (physical and mental)?

[Χά�ων]

Well, IIRC, there have been quite pointed threads dedicated to the differences in this situations with blended families, hence my question.

Yes, and if it was a teenage step-child, I would have a different view. But, because mid-20's is so far from being a teenager, in life experiences, societal expectations, brain development and so on. I wanted to see what the hive would view as reasonable expectations for cobtibuting to a household under these parameters.

 

DH agrees that what I view as reasonable is reasonable. I will admit that if this were my son, I would (and do) have significantly higher expectations. But he is much younger and not in his mid-20's (no matter what he thinks) and I reconize that can change.

[Katy]

Is there a mental health or other issue involved?

 

 

ETA:  If not, I would start by turning off cable and internet access during the day.  Boredom can be a strong motivator to get your own place.  But yeah, I'd have huge problems with this.  Part time job and full time school OR full time job and pay rent - 2/3 of your income to us, half to be saved to give back to you after you move out (which we would not announce to you).

 

And if that didn't work, the locks would be changed and they'd be dropped off at the day labor place for hard work each day, and only allowed back inside after 6pm.

 

We have been known to literally drop a distant relative who was acting abusively off at a homeless shelter though.  Not everyone has these sorts of boundaries.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Katy

[Catwoman]

Yes, and if it was a teenage step-child, I would have a different view. But, because mid-20's is so far from being a teenager, in life experiences, societal expectations, brain development and so on. I wanted to see what the hive would view as reasonable expectations for cobtibuting to a household under these parameters.

 

DH agrees that what I view as reasonable is reasonable. I will admit that if this were my son, I would (and do) have significantly higher expectations. But he is much younger and not in his mid-20's (no matter what he thinks) and I reconize that can change.

I think the problem is her entitled attitude more than anything else. How long does she expect you to take care of all of her needs with nothing in return (not even a thank you) from her?

[Χά�ων]

Is this person in good health (physical and mental)?

Currently there are no health issues that would prevent them from continueing their education part time or working a very basic entry level full time job that is appropriate for their education level (high school grad). Ie: They could work at Star Bucks full time.

 

All issues related to medical issues that could arise have beeen fully tested and it has been determined that while there may be limitations, it is not in fact impairing their ability to perform household chores. In fact, in their part time job they do perfor many household chores such as cleaning.

 

Lack of ability is not at play.

[EKS]

I would give them three options.

 

1.  Move out.

 

2.  Go to school full time and get passing grades.  They would be expected to contribute to the smooth running of the household.

 

3.  Work full time and pay their fair share of rent/utilities/food etc.  I would put what they pay me into a fund that they can use upon moving out.  As with number 2, they would be expected to contribute to the smooth running of the household.

[Guest]

Wow. Honestly, my 7yo does more than that (minus the job but she is in school all day). I would expect MUCH more. And I would struggle to be married to someone who would harm an adult child like this.

[Χά�ων]

Sorry. I keep telling it to knock it off, but you know how iPads are. :D

Maybe it needs to be publically shamed with a sign that says, "I corrupt other devices"

[Liz CA]

Typo alert -- Your thread title says "loving at home" rather than "living at home."

 

Have you been using my iPad again??? ;)

 

:lol:  I felt I should open the thread with caution.

[displace]

If the person is healthy, I'd expect either full time school or work. If not possible, full time house contributions to equal a full time job (cooking, cleaning, babysitting if applicable, yard work, etc).

 

If the person has mental or psychological concerns I'd expect full work on treating that, plus some housework.

[Liz CA]

It is reasonable to require this young adult to either go back to school full time or get a full time job.

 

...or move out which will necessitate the job part unless s/he has a trust fund. :)

This is my ds's age. He has been on his own since he was 19, getting several part-time or one full time job still going to college off and on (Don't ask. This is a sore spot with me ;) ) There have been ups and downs but he is employed and pays his own bills.

 

If something terrible happened, he knows he can come home but it seems he considers it a challenge to make it on his own.

 

[Tap]

I can't say what to do in your circumstances....but in our home...

 

DS22 washes/puts away almost all of the dishes/kitchen duties.  He sweeps/mops the downstairs at least once weekly but often 2x.  If dishes are already done...he will vacuum or sometimes find another chore to do instead.  He does all of his own laundry.  Anyone who finds laundry in the wash is expected to finish it (unless there is a note on the wash asking others not to--dedicates etc). At minimum dried and put in the correct persons bed, laid out to avoid wrinkles.  One of his paid jobs, is to watch his special needs little sister, but if it is off of those scheduled hours, and he is home anyways, he watches her for free and refuses payment.

 

 

Ds22 

Works 3 part time jobs that total 40ish hours.

Just finished year 2 of 3 toward his MA.

Volunteers 5 more hours a week to the church.

 

Due to him being a full time student and living at home (my contribution to the kids college)...I pay almost all of his expenses.

 

Food, lodging, cell, car maintenance

 

He provides his own tuition, spending money, gasoline, books, education expenses, etc.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Tap

[Χά�ων]

I'm not sure you can deal with the fact that the person won't do chores. Not sure how to force that to happen. Actually, not sure how to get the rent out of them, unless you threaten to kick them out and are willing to do so, which would be very, very difficult (for the birth parent at least.)

This is where I am. How do I take what I want to see happen and make it a reality? How do I get a mid 20's to contribute?

 

Kicking to the curb will not happen. Even if we did, the inlaws would rescue and pay for an apartment and still not except anything. Actually, that is what is happening. After a year of asking nicely I yelled. Now the inlaws are looking to pay for an apartment. No expectation that adult gets a job, or goes to school, or even cleans it. Dropping off at mom's will get the same result.

 

I am tempted to let it happen. They will evict for living in filth even if rent is paid. But that leads to another thread where I spend a couple thousand words complaining about enablism.

 

I just want to know, for my sanity, what is reasonable to expect as far as helping around the house from someone this age.

[maize]

I'd write up a contract. Adults without debilitating conditions who live in this household are each expected at a minimum to:

 

A

 

B

 

C

 

Whatever you think most reasonable. I personally think any competent adult should be putting in 40 hours each week of productive work and/or study PLUS a minimum of an hour each day engaged in household/life maintenance tasks (cleaning, financial management, cooking, yardwork, laundry AND at least 3 hours (ideally more) of physical activity.

 

An unencumbered young adult should also be contributing as much as possible to their own living expenses. If working full time they should be paying reasonable rent and board, if attending school contributions may come in other ways such as additional household help.

[Liz CA]

This is where I am. How do I take what I want to see happen and make it a reality? How do I get a mid 20's to contribute?

 

Kicking to the curb will not happen. Even if we did, the inlaws would rescue and pay for an apartment and still not except anything. Actually, that is what is happening. After a year of asking nicely I yelled. Now the inlaws are looking to pay for an apartment. No expectation that adult gets a job, or goes to school, or even cleans it. Dropping off at mom's will get the same result.

 

I am tempted to let it happen. They will evict for living in filth even if rent is paid. But that leads to another thread where I spend a couple thousand words complaining about enablism.

 

I just want to know, for my sanity, what is reasonable to expect as far as helping around the house from someone this age.

 

Oh, you want to focus on the chore part.

It may be difficult to get someone to do something if hitherto they have been exempt from housework.

 

What have this young person's chores been so far? If truly nothing, then I would ask in the "I need some help because I am getting old...or whatever" theme and suggest a few things beyond keeping his/her room clean.

As I am re-reading the above, it sounds like you are fighting a losing battle when it comes to the rest of the family.  :grouphug:

 

Reasonable would be: Outside chores / lawn mowing / wood chopping/ cleaning of any outbuildings/stalls if you have acreage

Inside chores: Floors vacuuming, mopping. Putting dishes in dishwasher and run through and put into cupboard - perhaps on a rotating basis with a sibling.

 

My son always lobbied for outdoor chores. Before he left, I hadn't cleaned a chicken coop for years.  :)

Edited April 7, 2017 by Liz CA

[Guest]

What happens if you say "Joe, unload the dishwasher please"?

[wintermom]

I'd expect the situation to be rather delicate. This is not a dependent minor, but obviously still a dependent.  I'd handle this very wisely and tactfully and not go charging off with a list of demands. 

[Guest]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect all outdoor chores to be done, ie, mowing, trimming, weeding, etc. As well as all garbage collection. As well as vehicle maintenance, ie, washing, vacuuming, etc.

 

Indoor chores, I'd expect cleaning the bathrooms, doing dishes, keeping room tidy, doing ALL family laundry...

 

Heck, this "kid" has a buttload of free time. Fill it.

 

Eta: I'm completely blown away by this situation. I don't even know what to say.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Kinsa

[Χά�ων]

Oh, you want to focus on the chore part.

It may be difficult to get someone to do something if hitherto they have been exempt from housework.

 

What have this young person's chores been so far? If truly nothing, then I would ask in the "I need some help because I am getting old...or whatever" theme and suggest a few things beyond keeping his/her room clean.

As I am re-reading the above, it sounds like you are fighting a losing battle when it comes to the rest of the family. :grouphug:

I am fighting a losing battle with the rest of the family. Emphises on fighting. I am not passive.

 

Young person's chores prior to now? None, ut not due to lack of effort by DH. Chores = abuse.

[Χά�ων]

I'd expect the situation to be rather delicate. This is not a dependent minor, but obviously still a dependent. I'd handle this very wisely and tactfully and not go charging off with a list of demands.

If I am being honest, I am at a point emotionally where I am no longer able to calmly manage the situation with tact.

 

I admire those who can go years and stay calm. I am just not one of them.

[Catwoman]

This is where I am. How do I take what I want to see happen and make it a reality? How do I get a mid 20's to contribute?

 

Kicking to the curb will not happen. Even if we did, the inlaws would rescue and pay for an apartment and still not except anything. Actually, that is what is happening. After a year of asking nicely I yelled. Now the inlaws are looking to pay for an apartment. No expectation that adult gets a job, or goes to school, or even cleans it. Dropping off at mom's will get the same result.

 

I am tempted to let it happen. They will evict for living in filth even if rent is paid. But that leads to another thread where I spend a couple thousand words complaining about enablism.

 

I just want to know, for my sanity, what is reasonable to expect as far as helping around the house from someone this age.

 

This has already been going on for a YEAR?  :svengo:  Let the in-laws or the mother pay for an apartment and wash your hands of the whole situation.

 

There's no way this young adult is going to cooperate with you if there's always another free ride, so why bother getting in the middle of a big family dispute when it sounds like you can't win? You will come out looking like the bad guy no matter how good your intentions may be, so why fight? Help the young adult pack for the new apartment or the move back to Mom's and wave goodbye with a huge, relieved smile on your face.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Catwoman

[Χά�ων]

What happens if you say "Joe, unload the dishwasher please"?

It is done. Crappily. And the next time I need to find something I spend 15 minutes hunting it down.

 

If I say, "Joe, please empty the dishwasher every night." It will be done crappily at most three times in a row, then not again until asked to empty it every night.

 

It is done so poorly that it looks to be deliberate. Think of the worst way you could put away dishes and that is what you have. Maybe a bit worse.

[Χά�ων]

This has already been going on for a YEAR? :svengo: Let the in-laws or the mother pay for an apartment and wash your hands of the whole situation.

 

There's no way this young adult is going to cooperate with you if there's always another free ride, so why bother getting in the middle of a big family dispute when it sounds like you can't win? You will come out looking like the bad guy no matter how good your intentions may be, so why fight? Help the young adult pack for the new apartment or the move back to Mom's and wave goodbye with a huge, relieved smile on your face.

A year before I finally yelled, yes. And I am not a patient person. I am making myself a gold star.

 

I am not sure why I am struggling to let them just pay for the apartment a couple blocks away. Maybe because we bought a house specifically for them? Maybe because I know that unless pushed this person will do little more than exist? Maybe because this person has a health issue that will kill them without health isurance and health insurance is tied to employment after age 26 and that is really close. Too close to even get an associates degree.

 

And I feel like that giving up is signing a death sentance.

[amy g.]

My 22 year old is in school, but when she is on break, she cooks and makes coffee and cleans the kitchen, runs errands and reads to and plays with the younger kids.

 

I don't require any of this, but I certainly do enjoy it.

 

If it were a stepchild who was not willing to contribute, I'd try to get them to be enabled by a different relative. I don't think I could allow this in my own house because it sets up such a bad example for siblings, and I don't ever want my kids to see me allow anyone to disrespect me. Ever.

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by 1234

[Catwoman]

A year before I finally yelled, yes. And I am not a patient person. I am making myself a gold star.

 

I am not sure why I am struggling to let them just pay for the apartment a couple blocks away. Maybe because we bought a house specifically for them? Maybe because I know that unless pushed this person will do little more than exist? Maybe because this person has a health issue that will kill them without health isurance and health insurance is tied to employment after age 26 and that is really close. Too close to even get an associates degree.

 

And I feel like that giving up is signing a death sentance.

 

You are such a kind person to worry about them, but this isn't a kid, it's an adult. And the other relatives seem content to pay for their expenses, so you might as well let them do it.

 

You can't help a person who doesn't want to be helped. You're not responsible for their health or their happiness.

 

You have already been trying for a year. The chances of anything changing in another year -- or another five years -- are very slim. If they ask for your advice in the future, you can be there to help, but right now all anyone is doing for this person is enabling them to continue exactly as they are.

 

I wish I had more encouraging advice for you. :grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

I would expect pretty continual pleasantness.

And also notification of general whereabouts and ETA (loosely). 

And either full time employment, full time education, or 4-6 hours of work on the house every day.  In the event of full time employment or full time education I would still expect some pitching in.  I would encourage that to be voluntary rather than scheduled, but if it never happened we would be discussing what to do about that and a schedule might ensure, although I would prefer to avoid that.

[rocassie]

First, personal expenses which to me include cell and transportation are expected to be paid by the adult using them.  Second, there would be some contribution required for the household.  Contribution could be time, money, or other resources.  Time could be chores that need to be done.  Money could be rent, part of the utilities, and/or part of the food budget.  Third, I would want to come up with a game plan of moving out.  

 

As an adult, I believe there should be a move towards independence.  Not that adult children should be cut off the minute they become an adult, but as a parent I would want to help them towards independence.  That could be support as they navigate college or some other vocational training, it could be having them live at home as they save money.  If an adult child wishes to remain in my household indefinitely that maybe okay as long as they don't expect a freeride.  My underage children have a responsibility to maintaining our household with various chores.  An adult child would have greater responsibility.   Even I, as a stay at home parent, contribute to our household in non-monetary ways that enrich and support our family life.

 

Given my feelings (and no disability on the part of my child), I would have a candid talk with my child and try to come up with something together that gives clear expectations as well as what happens if those expectations are not met.

[Guest]

Wtf is wrong with the adults in this kid's life?? How do they not see that they are really harming him? You are doing much better than I would be. I would not be able to live like that.

[Guest]

I'd be expecting them to take over a portion of the communal cleaning, probably assign them extra laundry after the floor tossing debaucle, and probably help with prep a few meals a week for the family - or they could work or move out. Pretty simple I'd say.

[Guest]

Wtf is wrong with the adults in this kid's life?? How do they not see that they are really harming him? You are doing much better than I would be. I would not be able to live like that.

Word.

[sassenach]

IME, chores is one of the harder areas to force change. They won't do them, you'll nag, they still won't do them, you'll get angry, they still won't do them...

 

Things that you can set a boundary on more easily? Don't pay for anything and don't drive them anywhere for starters. I love the idea of cutting off TV and internet access. A deeper cut would be to charge rent or ask them to move out. And for someone in their mid-twenties, I think you could argue that kicking them out would be healthier for them than continuing on like this.

 

In my own world, my almost 20yo has not been in school this year. She lives at home for free. She works and pays for her own car expenses, gas, insurance, clothing, entertainment, and cell phone. On the chore front, she has no regular chores outside of doing her own laundry, but our agreement is that if I ask her to do something, she does it. I probably ask her to do something once a week at the most. She works a lot. But I will hand it to her, when I ask, she does it.

 

 

[theelfqueen]

Typo alert -- Your thread title says "loving at home" rather than "living at home."

 

Have you been using my iPad again??? ;)

 

'Cause that is a WHOLE OTHER QUESTION.

 

[maize]

A year before I finally yelled, yes. And I am not a patient person. I am making myself a gold star.

 

I am not sure why I am struggling to let them just pay for the apartment a couple blocks away. Maybe because we bought a house specifically for them? Maybe because I know that unless pushed this person will do little more than exist? Maybe because this person has a health issue that will kill them without health isurance and health insurance is tied to employment after age 26 and that is really close. Too close to even get an associates degree.

 

And I feel like that giving up is signing a death sentance.

What happens when you discuss these realities with the young adult, including the upcoming need for individual health insurance?

[Ottakee]

Just for comparison my 21 year old who does have special needs... Cognitively impaired, some health issues, etc today did:

 

Scooped 3 wheelbarrow loads full of horse poop

Swept the barn

Prepared a cage for 2 new barn cats

Picked up a wagon load of sticks out of the yard

Cleaned the inside of the mini van including vacuuming

Washed the mini van and DH car

Made cupcakes as a treat

Is now outside helping DH grill supper.

 

This is a person with the skills of a 2nd- 3rd grader.

[Anne]

This is an untenable situation.

 

I think Catwoman's advice was spot-on -  help her pack for her new apartment that the in-laws or her mom will provide.  

 

I would add, that I would strongly encourage your dh to sit down with his daughter beforehand and letting her know that he hopes she will become a functioning adult in the future, able to support herself and provide herself with things that adults typically provide for themselves, including the health insurance she will need, and that is why he cannot continue to enable her childlike behavior.

 

She will, of course, ignore this, but he will have the comfort of knowing that she has been informed...

 

Let her go - having her in your home isn't good for anybody

 

Anne.  

[regentrude]

Mid-20s? Unless the young adult had a disability, I would expect the person to work full time or attend school or job training. Not all work has to be paid; if the person had a part time paid job and spent the remaining time in a meaningful unpaid pursuit (volunteer work, artistic work), that would be fine, if family finances allow.

If the person only works part time and does not go to school or volunteer, I would expect him or her to take on a significant portion of the household or childcare chores that fills the remaining part of a normal full time job.