s/o Punishing children for accidents

[Luanne]

When I was about 11 years old I accidently broke my mother's gravy boat.  We had a ledge behind the chairs at our kitchen table.  My brother had set the gravy boat on the ledge.  When I pushed my chair back to stand up and leave the table, I knocked the gravy boat down the stairs (which of course broke it to pieces).  My father's reaction to this was to grab my arm and start hitting me on the behind.  I vowed then and there (in my mind) to never punish any children I had for accidently breaking anything.  I have cautioned my daughter to be more careful, but that is all that is said or done about it when she accidently breaks something.

 

Thoughts?

[happi duck]

I'm sorry that happened to you. (Hug)

 

I totally agree...I don't understand punishing an accident.

[Slache]

Whenever one of my children is punished we always talk about it first. This what you did, this is what you should have done. In doing so my children are never inappropriately punished.

[Peaceful Isle]

I agree as well. I think that mistakes happen. That is why there are erasers on pencils. If a young child is constantly spilling a drink or knocking stuff over, I think it is the parents responsibility to make sure things are not set on the edge of the counter, or the child has too full of a glass or what have you.

 

Yes, I tend to have more grace and forgiveness when it comes to accidents though.

[bolt.]

Parents' knee jerk reactions suck sometimes -- but especially do when they involve physical violence. That's not OK, and it shouldn't have happened to you.

 

Myself, I don't consider me flying off the handle (not hitting, but sometimes harsh words) as an act if parenting at all. Therefore it's not something I would call a "punishment" -- I just consider it a grown up meltdown. I hope if doesn't do too much damage, apologize, reconnect and carry on.

 

Also, I don't use retributive punishment as a parenting tool. I do use related-and-respectful consequences sometimes and sparingly... So I'll pretend we are talking about that (since the ideas are pretty similar, and only I actually enjoy splitting hairs over it).

 

I wouldn't say that I would never apply a related-and-respectful consequence when something (ie damage) happens accidentally. There are a lot if times when I wouldn't, but I can co curve if times when I might.

 

For example (real situation): A child has a water bottle that is supposed to be following a routine (taken to school, tracked at school, brought home daily, taken from the backpack to the dishwasher) that the child knows, and isn't too hard for them -- but instead leaves it at the top of the stairs, accidentally kicks it down and it smashes.

 

In that case, it wouldn't have happened if the child was doing proper care -- and that's a teachable moment: "Proper care helps things not get broken accidentally." And, "Things that get broken need to he replaced, replacement has a cost." So I charged her $3 for a new bottle. She percieved this as fair and non-punitive. It also didn't hurt her finances much -- my kids have a generous allowance program so that money can be used as a teaching tool.

[Bootsie]

I am opposed to to imposing a punishment for accidents, but I do think that children experiencing age-appropriate consequences of an accident is healthy.  If you accidentally spill your drink, you clean it up.  If you accidentally break a neighbor's glass, you offer to replace it (usually not the child paying the entire amount--some appropriate amount related to the child's age and how money is handled).  

 

When my son was four he accidentally tore a page in DDs school library book.  I took him to talk to the librarian to explain what had happened and offer to pay of the book.  I was unhappy with the way the librarian handled the situation.  I was hoping for her to thank him for admitting that he had accidentally torn the page and not just leave it for his sister to deal with.  I was also hoping she would be glad that he was interesting at looking at a library book.  Instead, she gave him a long, age-inappropriate lecture of taking care of books, how the students at the school could not use the book any more (it was mainly a picture book about animals and the page was not completely torn out--nothing a bit of tape couldn't handle.)  She said he would have to pay for the book and a replacement fine.  (At least she gave the "useless, damaged" book to us to throw away--so we brought it home and put on our bookshelf.  Instead of teaching him to take responsibility for an accident, it made him terrified to read a library book.  

[Ravin]

When I was about 11 years old I accidently broke my mother's gravy boat. We had a ledge behind the chairs at our kitchen table. My brother had set the gravy boat on the ledge. When I pushed my chair back to stand up and leave the table, I knocked the gravy boat down the stairs (which of course broke it to pieces). My father's reaction to this was to grab my arm and start hitting me on the behind. I vowed then and there (in my mind) to never punish any children I had for accidently breaking anything. I have cautioned my daughter to be more careful, but that is all that is said or done about it when she accidently breaks something.

 

Thoughts?

Accidents happen. At my house, you would have been scolded, and upon asking what you were thinking and learning your brother put it there, so would he. Any consequence beyond that would depend upon whether there was a history of carelessness. If it was the third dish broken recently through one person's not looking where they were going, I'd work with that child on that issue, possibly with a promise of consequences if it happened again within a certain time frame.

 

Punishment of children should never be based on anger.

 

Eta: I'm especially sensitive to making sure I hold children accountable for their own actions, and not those of siblings, because of a number of incidents where I took the blame wrongly. I think it sets children up for or exacerbates rivalry issues if you don't.

[Mimm]

I have punished my children for "accidents" that were caused by them directly disobeying me.

 

"Don't take the ipod into the shower. It'll be ruined by water."

 

"I didn't mean for the ipod to get wet. I tried to be really careful and keep it out of the water."

 

That never happened but many similar incidents have. I would never punish a child for a genuine accident, but if you ignore my warnings, assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that if you're just really really really careful, that the disaster I warned you about won't happen, you will be in trouble. But that's not really punishing for the accident, because the child will be in trouble for the disobedience even if the accident didn't occur.

 

"But I was really careful and the ipod didn't get wet! See, it works just fine!"

 

"Doesn't matter, I told you not to shower with it."

 

[LucyStoner]

Yeah, that would not happen here either. I don't own a gravy boat worth hitting a child over, nor has there ever been a gravy boat worth hitting a child over. Humans make mistakes. I see teaching my children to accept that, handle their anger and let go of things as a valuable lesson. Stuff happens and we have to be prepared to take things in stride.

 

Also, even if someone believes in spanking I personally think that 11 is FAR too old for a spanking.

[QueenCat]

It depends. An honest accident, unpreventable and unforeseen? I usually huff and puff for the workload it creates but don't generally punish (though verbal chastisement or teaching can definitely follow, depending on there nature of it).

 

But something due to foolishness, a lack of care, or disobeying an instruction and then leading to 'surprise' consequences? Those definitely get dealt with through some means - reparation, loss of privilege, swat, whatever - it depends on the child and the specific circumstance. Jumping on the bed and breaking your leg when mommy has told you to never jump on any furniture but a trampoline? Not the same kind of accident as pouring the breakfast milk and getting one of the gallons that sloshes and drips no matter how careful you are.

 

So I judge on a case by case basis.

 

With this example, of breaking one's leg, there is more of a natural consequence with the broken leg. Why would a parent have an additional punishment added on for the jumping on the bed, as the child has suffered for the consequences of their actions, way beyond any parent imposed consequence/punishment?

 

[mom2att]

Well.  My boys got an iPad to share this summer. Younger son was doing something on the iPad while at the same time examining a chunk of iron pyrite. I think you can see where this is going.  The iPad was not happy--they do not like like rocks dropped on their faces.  Younger son was not happy, mainly because he was sure his dad was going to KILL him. But dh, whose iPad has plenty of dings and scratches of its own, just shook his head and said, "Oh well, it's his iPad."  The consequence was that ds now has to live with an iPad with a cracked screen (it is still perfectly functional, just has a screen protector to prevent finger cuts).  If it no longer worked, the consequence would be that ds would have to earn money to repair it.

 

The real loser is his brother, who shares the iPad, did nothing to damage it, and must also live with the cracked screen. But, having made plenty of careless mistakes of his own, he doesn't complain. We didn't make a big deal of it, so neither did he.

 

So I guess you can say we do not punish for accidents, other than following the rule of natural consequences.  We do discuss what choices could have been made to prevent the accident, but stuff happens.  Sometimes even when we ARE careful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Orthodox6]

Age of the child also factors in.  A visiting child, then aged five, moving at the speed of greased lightning when her mother and I had our backs turned for just a moment, grabbed the vigil lamp (which, thanks be, was not lit at the time), ran across the room and poured all of the olive oil inside of my 100-year-old Steinway studio grand piano . . .

 

The child was permitted to live, although I had to staple my mouth shut, mentally, to refrain from yelling at her.  Her mother is one who does not administer even a light tap of admonishment to a child, so did nothing. 

 

This was no accident; it was a deliberate act from a perpetually wild child. 

 

Given the age of the child, though, it would not have been effective to deliver a rational lecture on why the act was horribly destructive. 

 

 

[Ravin]

Age of the child also factors in. A visiting child, then aged five, moving at the speed of greased lightning when her mother and I had our backs turned for just a moment, grabbed the vigil lamp (which, thanks be, was not lit at the time), ran across the room and poured all of the olive oil inside of my 100-year-old Steinway studio grand piano . . .

 

The child was permitted to live, although I had to staple my mouth shut, mentally, to refrain from yelling at her. Her mother is one who does not administer even a light tap of admonishment to a child, so did nothing.

 

This was no accident; it was a deliberate act from a perpetually wild child.

 

Given the age of the child, though, it would not have been effective to deliver a rational lecture on why the act was horribly destructive.

In this case, appropriate response is demand for restitution from the parent, not the child. And I'd probably not let that child in to my home and near my stuff again until their behavior had demonstrably changed.

[QueenCat]

Well I'd probably use it as a teaching moment, and extend out the example to other similar things. Punishment, per se, might not apply. But would I dock allowance, immediately crack down on any rambunctiousness in the house with that kid, and potentially find something creative for them to do in reparation for the enormous expense related to their disobedience? (We cash pay our medical by and large).

 

You bet I would.

 

I guess that's how we're different, and I know you'll have many that will agree with you, to punish on top of the natural consequences, but it wouldn't work for us; it's not what our family is about.............. I'd find the broken leg and a gentle conversation sufficient. Reparations would not enter our minds, at all, in this type of situation. Paying for a child's medical expenses, even if they could have prevented it, is just part of parenting for us.

[SemiSweet]

I do not spank for the most part anyways, but accidents due to carelessness do have consequences in our house. Ds has been repeatedly told not to throw/drop dishes in the sink, he must set them in there, so when he throws dishes in and they break he must pay for a new dish. Dd loses everything, not on purpose, she's just absentminded, but I'm not replacing all the stuff she loses, if it's something important that she needs I make her pay to replace it, if it's not then she has to live without it. A true accident, meh, stuff happens, you move on. Dd broke her arm from climbing on/over the couch about a year ago, I thought that was sufficient punishment, to add insult to injury, she didn't get to go swimming or take swim lessons for 6 weeks. Natural consequences were enough in that case.

[QueenCat]

It's part of parenting here, too. But so is teaching the children obedience, consideration of their surroundings and the people in them, respect of their home, and caution and forethought instead of impulsivity. The more mileage we can get out of a situation for teaching and training the better, I'd say. And natural consequences work well for some children, but mine tend to not connect disobedience or foolishness with the consequences of those actions, and need much more explicit instruction and correction. Age plays a part, too.

 

Helping them to understand the full impact of their actions beyond just 'that sucked for me!' is incredibly important in our family.

 

Oh, ours certainly do learn the full impact of their actions, as it is much needed in learning to critically think through their future actions. Being considerate of others and their surroundings is also important. Sometimes there are not natural consequences, and parental consequences come into play but rarely both for us, as we just haven't found it necessary in ensuring our children understand the ramifications of their actions. One who breaks their leg jumping on a bed is highly unlikely to jump on a bed again, so further punishment does not add in deterring to future actions, so therefore, it is not necessary.

 

[SproutMamaK]

We don't punish for accidents, but we do make them deal with the consequences themselves. If you break something, you get the chance to learn how to repair it, or you pay for it. etc etc. I wouldn't say we get angry when that happens, but depending on the nature of the accident, we can be stern. I'd say that acting stern when spelling out the consequences only happens when it's more of an "accident" than an accident, lol. Eg, if the kids have been wrestling around the living room and bump into things which then break. If it an "oh no, I tripped and dropped this" kind of situation, we'll be more likely to help offset the consequences a bit with the understanding that sometimes accidents happen and it stinks... but we do still need to responsible for fixing the problem.

[Catwoman]

Well I'd probably use it as a teaching moment, and extend out the example to other similar things. Punishment, per se, might not apply. But would I dock allowance, immediately crack down on any rambunctiousness in the house with that kid, and potentially find something creative for them to do in reparation for the enormous expense related to their disobedience? (We cash pay our medical by and large).

 

You bet I would.

I would be so heartbroken that my child had broken his leg that I would be buying him presents to cheer him up. I most certainly wouldn't be docking his allowance. :glare: That seems ridiculously harsh, unkind, and unsympathetic.

[Dory]

We don't punish for accidents. We do say that it's a good opportunity to own up to your own mistakes and deal with your own messes without it being something major. They will clean up (or help clean up if they are little) any accidents that they have, but I don't understand why any parent would punish a child for something that they didn't mean to do. That isn't helping them be more careful, it helping them learn anything, other then to be scared of making a mistake. Mistakes are inevitable, accidents happen.

 

I'm sorry your dad responded that way. I know what that feels like. It's wrong. Just plain and simple wrong.

[LucyStoner]

No, under no circumstances would I recoup any portion of the cost of my child's medical care from his allowance. In my book that's just petty.

[LucyStoner]

It's part of parenting here, too. But so is teaching the children obedience, consideration of their surroundings and the people in them, respect of their home, and caution and forethought instead of impulsivity. The more mileage we can get out of a situation for teaching and training the better, I'd say. And natural consequences work well for some children, but mine tend to not connect disobedience or foolishness with the consequences of those actions, and need much more explicit instruction and correction. Age plays a part, too.

 

Helping them to understand the full impact of their actions beyond just 'that sucked for me!' is incredibly important in our family.

Your oldest is how old?

[LibraryLover]

Accidents are accidents, even when we are 'careless', so no punishments.  I've broken things when in a hurry etc. We all have. I fell once walking the dogs (tripped over the leash, wasn't paying attention) and gashed my knee. Sure, I should have been more careful, but a lot to do a lot to do, a lot a lot a lot to do. As for little kids, they are exploring the world and learning. They are not thinking, "Oh, I should not push my chair up against the wall because there is a priceless gravy boat there."  "Oh, I am strong and having fun bouncing. I should stop because I am going to have to pay for my cast with my allowance."  lol As if. Just no.

[Catwoman]

I'm a mean mommy, apparently. My sympathy for kids injuring themselves while disobeying me is quite limited. I'd wait until the cast was on and all conniptions had subsided to address it, of course, but I wouldn't just leave it be without a word.

 

I firmly believe both kisses/hugs and chastisement/teaching can have their place with a single experience.

Honestly, you are coming across as mean.

 

Your kids are all so little. :(

[Dory]

I'm a mean mommy, apparently. My sympathy for kids injuring themselves while disobeying me is quite limited. I'd wait until the cast was on and all conniptions had subsided to address it, of course, but I wouldn't just leave it be without a word.

 

I firmly believe both kisses/hugs and chastisement/teaching can have their place with a single experience.

 

I would somewhat agree with that, but teaching isn't the same as punishing.

 

I think the sympathy is just part of going, "hey, I make mistakes to, and I know it sucks to deal with afterwards. I feel for ya because I know what that feels like." That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't help clean the mess they made or face what happened.

[SKL]

For a pure freak accident, I would treat my kid the way I would want to be treated for the same thing.  I make mistakes.  I break things.  Nobody yells or beats me over it.  The consequences may include cleaning up, apologizing, and/or making the owner whole.  (The latter of which may not be fair for a kid who does not have a regular disposable income.)  If it's someone else's valued item, I feel better being able to make restitution than just being "forgiven" etc.

 

With kids, sometimes it's a matter of needing to teach them something they should have already learned.  For example, you tell the kids not to throw things in the dining room because there are breakables int here.  The kids decide to throw things in the dining room and accidentally break something.  The kids need a consequence.

 

I think that like adults, kids ultimately feel better if they are provided a way to make restitution for an accidental loss, provided the consequence is couched in positive terms.

 

[medawyn]

I was rear ended by a woman on Thursday who immediately responded to the incident with "I didn't do it on purpose."  I wanted to reply with a snarky, "Yes, that's the definition of an accident."  Fortunately no damage was done, but I'm pregnant, had my 18 month old in the car, have car seats to replace, etc.  I understand that it wasn't intentional but reparations and an apology are still required.

 

I don't consider either an apology or reparations to be a punishment, but I still expect them for an accident (within the reasonable limits of a child's age).  Further consequences would only come if the accident is a direct result of disobedience or repeated carelessness.

[rocassie]

I don't punish for accidents, but I do believe in natural consequences.  So it would be cleaning it up (with the help of brother who placed it in the precarious position), and possibly replacing broken object depending on the circumstances.

 

Accidents that happen do to disobedience, repeated carelessness, or laziness comes with additional consequences.

[SKL]

I would be so heartbroken that my child had broken his leg that I would be buying him presents to cheer him up. I most certainly wouldn't be docking his allowance. :glare: That seems ridiculously harsh, unkind, and unsympathetic.

 

Depending on the age and circumstances, I could see canceling a future expense on behalf of the kid because the family now has this new, large, unnecessary expense due to rule breaking.

 

This is really a case-by-case decision.  There have been many times when I have simply forgiven and hugged my kid after a destructive mistake, because it was clear in that situation that the "teaching moment" value was outweighed by the need for the child to feel forgiveness and support.  And this is not always in a case where the kid hurt herself or her own stuff.

 

Actually I have a personal philosophy that my kids' relationship with me and her self-esteem are more important than any "thing" I may have.  I do not want to give my kids the message that I value any "thing" so highly that they need to be afraid of what I'll do if they break it.  But that does not mean they don't need to experience the cost of breaking stuff.  (Because other people *do* care that their stuff remain intact.)  I am a big believer in working stuff off etc.  But I don't combine it with berating etc.

[Mandylubug]

I would have had to clean up the mess and use my allowance to help replace it but never spanked. That saddens me :(

 

This reminds me of parents that punish their kids for bad test grades. They know they are not grasping the material and needing extra help. The test isn't a shocker yet they still get grounded due to it. Makes no sense.

[unsinkable]

Well this could be the limits of Internet communication showing themselves. We haven't had a broken bone here, for example, that was just the first thing that popped into my head since a friend is dealing with that with her son. But because my kids are little, I am very much focused on teaching them deeply about why there are rules and how to learn self control, boundaries, respect, etc. Natural consequences make my kids avoid pain, but I think lessons on why the rules are in place and approaching it from a perspective they aren't considering is very helpful. I don't want my kids not hitting their siblings because then nobody will play with them - I want them not hitting their siblings because we value kindness and respect of others first. Not just the consequence, but the reasoning behind the consequence.

 

And with accidents - we absolutely chastise if needed, and sometimes it isn't (someone was playing and decided that was more fun than going potty and wet their pants - this isn't the same kind of wet pants accident as someone needing to go potty and not being able to reach a bathroom quickly enough. The response to the same action (wet pants) differs depending on how they got that way).

 

With broken objects, it depends. Just because it was entirely accidental it was broken doesn't mean we won't require that they forfeit their chore penny to pay for it, or that they understand that the cost of x means we cannot afford to do y, anymore. That's real life, and good for the children to understand young that even accidents have consequences and sometimes require 'fixing'. That might be replacing an object, a financial dock, or even asking someone's forgiveness for wronging them or breaking their property despite the fact that you never intended that to happen.

 

If this makes me mean, so be it. Good parenting to me involves much more than just natural consequences and excusing away accidents with hugs and kisses. Of course there is love and comfort, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reparation, repair, or increased supervision/strictness in a particular area as a consequence, either. Love and discipline aren't mutually exclusive, and think wisdom is finding the appropriate balance of both for a given child and situation.

Your kids are babies.

 

Most of "misbehavior" and "accidents" at this age (8 years old and under) IMO, comes from inappropriate supervision or developmentally appropriate behavior.

 

I think I come at discipline from a different perspective...one of how can I help them do and learn RIGHT, not what will happen when they are WRONG.

[Kerileanne99]

I would be so heartbroken that my child had broken his leg that I would be buying him presents to cheer him up. I most certainly wouldn't be docking his allowance. :glare: That seems ridiculously harsh, unkind, and unsympathetic.

Absolutely. What can further punishment possibly teach (that I want my kid to learn!)?

Last week:

"Alex, no jumping on the bed please. If you would like to jump you can do so on the trampoline. Alex, no jumping on the bed please, it isn't safe and I asked you not to.

I have now asked twice...do I really need to (crash, wail)

 

She was fine, but head wounds bleed profusely even when it it really IS minor. Totally traumatizing for the kid, and when the pain and blood were controlled with ice and cuddles, she looked at me and said with tears dripping down her cheeks "I shouldn't have jumped on the bed mommy."

We had ice cream and read books. I assure you she learned her lesson without further punitive measures, lol.

 

Do I wish she would listen the first time? Absolutely. But we were able to have a cuddly conversation about how when mom and dad have a rule it is usually based on safety or our experiences...and I hope that I modeled compassion when she needed it most.

[AimeeM]

I would be so heartbroken that my child had broken his leg that I would be buying him presents to cheer him up. I most certainly wouldn't be docking his allowance. :glare: That seems ridiculously harsh, unkind, and unsympathetic.

Word.

My daughter sprained her wrist badly - it swelled so terribly and she went down so hard that we thought it was fractured. She slipped on a freshly mopped floor. Does she know I mop every evening? You betcha. Did it cross my mind to punish her for being not paying attention? No. Freakin. Way. She wasn't able to participate in fun events at school, couldn't use her dominant hand for writing, etc. Yes, we paid medical expenses because, well, we're her parents. I felt terrible for her and happily did what I could to make it better for her - pouring her drinks, helping with her homework (written portion), etc.

She hasn't slipped on a mopped floor since, though.

[Justmeandyou]

I punish for accidents if I feel it is necessary.  Here, most accidents are caused by not following the rules.  We have a no running in the house rule.  If you break something while running by it, then you will get into trouble. 

If you knock a painting off the wall while cartwheeling by it, you'll get punished.  Yes, it was an accident, but the rule is no cartwheels in the house.  5 yo broke a huge jar of jelly the other day while carrying it from the fridge to the table.  He got into trouble because the rule for him is that he may not get anything out of the fridge without asking.  He had not asked for the jelly (because he knew I'd say no).  Had I handed it to him to carry, and he had dropped it, he would not have gotten into trouble for that.   Bigger punishment happens when your 'accident' happens to hurt someone else. 

[unsinkable]

Nm, I think I explained myself well enough in my last post :)

Taryn,

 

I saw what you wrote before you deleted it.

 

I believe you have good intentions. But I strongly disagree that a child cleaning up after herself when she got sick because she didn't stay in bed is appropriate. It's not compassionate. It's not loving. It's not teaching.

[foxbridgeacademy]

When I was about 11 years old I accidently broke my mother's gravy boat.  We had a ledge behind the chairs at our kitchen table.  My brother had set the gravy boat on the ledge.  When I pushed my chair back to stand up and leave the table, I knocked the gravy boat down the stairs (which of course broke it to pieces).  My father's reaction to this was to grab my arm and start hitting me on the behind.  I vowed then and there (in my mind) to never punish any children I had for accidently breaking anything.  I have cautioned my daughter to be more careful, but that is all that is said or done about it when she accidently breaks something.

 

Thoughts?

Sounds like my childhood.  Also the reason I don't physically discipline my children after the age of 3-4 (but that's another thread that got shut down by a moderator).  I do tend to yell and then have to apologize later for yelling.  If child negligence is involved I still apologize but then we have a long talk about being careful, following rules etc. 

[Ravin]

I will admit that for minor injury (ex: child takes a dive off the couch and bumps an elbow) my sympathy for the boo boo is tempered by fault and "I told you so" in the form of, "see, this is one of the reasons why it's against the rules to climb on the furniture like that" does become part of the conversation.

[Wheres Toto]

Ugh my multi-quoting isn't working again.  :glare:

 

 

First in reply to Sadie "Do people not break things accidently as adults?"   I was talking to someone the other day and mentioned that I didn't think it was fair to have expectations for children that we wouldn't have for ourselves.  Yes, their situations may be first experiences and may need explicit teaching, but I don't think it will necessarily need punishment, even if it was due to carelessness.  As adults, are we always perfectly alert, perfectly behaved, and never careless or thoughtless?  No, so why would we expect that of children, especially young children.

 

The other comment, which I can't from the reply view so don't know who it was, was about punishment for failing tests even when it was known the child was struggling.  I only had one child that ever went to public school where grades were an issue, but I never punished for receiving a low grade or not maintaining a certain average, IF I thought true effort was being put in.  Most of us have a subject that is a little bit harder for us, that takes us a little longer to grasp..  And many of us have one subject that we just never quite get the hang of and struggle through it every time (for my dd that's history for some reason).  As long as I knew she was doing her homework, studying, putting in a reasonable effort (including extra help if offered) and not just blowing it off, I would not punish for a grade that wasn't good. 

 

We don't do physical punishment.  We do natural consequences - you lose or break something you don't have it until you can afford to replace it (or work off the cost), or loss of privileges (computer mostly).   We don't punish for true accidents or age appropriate behavior that was really our responsibility to prevent.

[LucyStoner]

Do other people not accidentally break stuff as adults ? I broke a glass just yesterday...mostly carelessness. Dh accidentally broke one of my tea cups a month or so back...also carelessness. Neither of us deserved to be punished. Accidents, even those due to carelessness, do happen in life.

Exactly. I broke my son's cereal bowl. Is ordering him a new one a punishment or is it just part of life?

 

There's no need to huff and puff. Just clean up the mess and move on.

[bolt.]

For minor "ow that hurt" moments, I do tell them that such things are exactly what the rule are meant to prevent. For true injury (and sickness) compassion and human kindness are far more important lessons of "discipline" (what to do, how to behave when you see an injured person).

[LucyStoner]

Honestly, you are coming across as mean.

 

Your kids are all so little. :(

I don't know if it is so much mean as it is the rigidity of inexperienced, authoritarian based parenting. I can only imagine that time and experience will temper some of Taryl's "ideals". Theory is all well and good but it doesn't always jive with reality.

 

My son is a tree climber. That comes with some risks. I can no more imagine telling him not to climb any trees ever than I can imagine asking him to raid his savings account for the medical bills if he stumbled out of a tree.

[chocolatechip]

For minor "ow that hurt" moments, I do tell them that such things are exactly what the rule are meant to prevent. For true injury (and sickness) compassion and human kindness are far more important lessons of "discipline" (what to do, how to behave when you see an injured person).

Plus, if little Jonny breaks his leg jumping off the bed after Mom told him not to, chances are high he is already KEENLY aware he should have listened. . .

[bolt.]

Either that, or he's in fight-or-flight mode, and has absolutely no access to his logic circuits or hindsight at all.

[Justmeandyou]

Taryn,

 

I saw what you wrote before you deleted it.

 

I believe you have good intentions. But I strongly disagree that a child cleaning up after herself when she got sick because she didn't stay in bed is appropriate. It's not compassionate. It's not loving. It's not teaching.

 

Yep, that is just mean.  I would never do that, and I do punish for 'accidents.'

[Catwoman]

It wasn't to be mean - she was flapping around and quite upset about having made the mess, realizing it was epic in proportions nobody had yet managed to achieve. Instead of continually apologizing she got a sponge and worked on a section of bunk bed before being sent for a shower and cartoon. Everything worked out fine and I'm grateful she was able and willing to help deal with the mess, quite frankly.

 

All three of us ranting about how gross it was diffused a fair bit of tension and added some levity, as well as let her feel like a help instead of just causing a ton of work for us. And I'm pretty sure the demonstration of proper pillow vomiting technique won't leave the minds of any of the kids anytime soon. Unfortunately my camera wasn't handy to record it.

 

In the end, we all parent the best we can. I personally think we handled the vomitGate quite well, though you're free to disagree. But in the middle of the night with four kids in the midst and everything covered, it's triage, not zen.

OK, let me get this straight.

 

Your little dd was sick in bed, but she got out of bed and vomited, so you MADE A SICK YOUNG CHILD CLEAN UP HER OWN VOMIT??? :eek:

 

I'm sorry, but that is absolutely horrible.

 

I can tell that you adore your kids, but I really wish you would re-think your stance on punishment. i can't help but believe that you will regret a lot of it in years to come.

[Farrar]

I would never punish for an accident.

 

Careless behavior is not an accident though. I've always taught that having no intention does not make something an accident if the consequences could clearly be foreseen.

 

But we're not a very punitive house and even something that should have been preventable doesn't typically get a heavy handed consequence. Honestly, we've never had to deal much with this.

[StephanieZ]

OP, I totally agree with you. Accidents happen. They don't deserve punishment!

 

If the accident is caused by serious negligence (think 12 year old throwing a base ball in the house, or a 10 year old playing with nail polish in the living room . . . things that are either definitely against the rules or *definitely* negligent that the child had the maturity and knowledge to "know better", then some degree of (age appropriate and moderate . . . Not a 12 year old paying for a $1000 window replacement . . . But, maybe paying part of it in labor . . .) consequences make sense. But, any accident that just happens could have happened to any of us, and we are all moderately negligent from time to time. Life is hard enough. It's not fair to make a kid responsible for things that are so costly that they could not reasonably pay for them (say, in a few weeks to few months labor a few hours weekly. . . at most!!) I think that if you wouldn't have inflicted a serious consequence for JUST using nail polish in the living room on the good couch (even if no damage was done), then it is wrong to inflict a serious consequence when the fairly inevitable couch-polish intersection occurs. I think that is lazy parenting. So, since I am a fairly lazy disciplinarian, I am careful not to inflict consequences when accidents happen . . .

 

If I allow the atmosphere to exist where my 12 yo thinks she'll get by with nail polish willy nilly . . . then I am stuck with an ugly couch. Since I would really rather not have an entire house decorated with drips of polish, I try to make sure to give consequences when the polish is used out of approved spaces/circumstances. I know full well that my moderately lax enforcement of that rule is why our old bathroom vanities *all* had polish decorations. So, I've gotten firmer as we are remodeling the house, as I'd really rather not have all that granite similarly decorated. It's *my* responsibility to enforce rules that keep us and our home safe.

[StephanieZ]

OK, let me get this straight.

 

Your little dd was sick in bed, but she got out of bed and vomited, so you MADE A SICK YOUNG CHILD CLEAN UP HER OWN VOMIT??? :eek:

 

I'm sorry, but that is absolutely horrible.

 

I can tell that you adore your kids, but I really wish you would re-think your stance on punishment. i can't help but believe that you will regret a lot of it in years to come.

 

Agreed! A thousand times. I hate to be rude, but, Arctic Mama, I think you really need to reevaluate your focus on discipline. You have a gaggle of young children and a lot on your hands. I understand that you need to have some control and discipline. But, please consider finding time for reflection and self-care before your focus on discipline escalates to abuse, if it hasn't already. If you've already crossed that line, then, please, please, please, get some professional help and maybe some "me-time" to help you tone down and focus on love, not discipline. In just a few years, your babies are going to be teens, and soon, they'll be bigger and stronger than you, and they already out number you. If your relationship is so power-focused, you are going to have a very rough time of it in a few years, and a few years after that, you are going to either never see many or all of your kids, or you are going to be paying some very hefty therapy bills for those kids. In thousands of posts, I think this is the first time I've said the abuse word focused on a mom here. I really don't mean to be hateful. I am just hoping that your kids are young enough, and you are as yet a not-completely-set-in-stone mom, that maybe someday, after your inevitable angry reply to me, after you block me, and after I block you . . . well, someday, maybe this comment might help you change sooner rather than later. 

[Mandylubug]

Well, puking clean up kids reminds me of an incident that happened to us last year. I told my oldest if he didn't stop tanking up on sweets he would barf and then he'd be cleaning it. Fast forward a month and he got a stomach bug and didn't make it to the bathroom. He didn't wake me and was sobbing *while cleaning* up his puke. I felt so horrible that my jest prior made him feel where he couldn't wake me. It broke my heart :(

[Mandylubug]

When my husband was around the age of eight or so, he was told to go out to the shed to feed the mama dog and her litter of new puppies. Dh accidentally shut the door tight, which made the shed overheat. All the puppies died. FIL made dh bury each one in the back yard as "punishment". As much as I loved my late FIL, I just think that was way over the top. DH is still traumatized by that experience to this day. The mere grief and remorse he felt was an age appropriate "punishment", and as the parent I would have buried the dead puppies myself.

Awe, poor baby :(

[Scrub Jay]

When my husband was around the age of eight or so, he was told to go out to the shed to feed the mama dog and her litter of new puppies. Dh accidentally shut the door tight, which made the shed overheat. All the puppies died. FIL made dh bury each one in the back yard as "punishment". As much as I loved my late FIL, I just think that was way over the top. DH is still traumatized by that experience to this day. The mere grief and remorse he felt was an age appropriate "punishment", and as the parent I would have buried the dead puppies myself.

 

That is so awful and sad :(