My cautionary tale

[Laura Corin]

There's no way that they will be going to US universities - they have dual citizenship - our savings should at least pay their fees in the UK, so they only have to take out loans for living expenses.

 

Laura

[Blueridge]

.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Blueridge

[Tree Frog]

There is a limit on the amount of FEDERAL loans that are granted. There are an overwhelming number of institutions willing and ready to offer PRIVATE student loans.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I knew I was missing something.:tongue_smilie:

[Stacy in NJ]

Right now, Europeans are experiencing massive unemployment in southern Europe and disturbing levels in northern Europe. Youth unemployment in Spain is 50%. What do you do with thousands of degreed young people who have been educated on the state dime - a state that is running massive deficits and will likely default on their bonds? Austerity, recession, default. But, hey, at least they're well educated, right?

 

Our current educational system is a bubble. Providing "free" college for all won't resolve our issues, but I'm sure it would make parents and students feel good about getting something for nothing

[TheTwinsMom1]

I am starting college in the fall. I am attending a small state cc college. It however, has a four year nursing program. The tuition is: $2,424.43 for residents. My FAFSA states I am eligible to receive up to 5500$ per semester for the Pell Grant. This is the one that does not have to be paid back. I know from past history I will also be able to get a couple smallish, state grants that they give out for parents. Last time I attended I was able to pay my full tuition with grants and even get money back.

 

I know it's easier for parents to go to school, but this has been the experience for my brothers and sisters also, none of them have had to take out huge loans to go to school. I guess sometimes being poor does have it advantages (being sarcastic here)

[LibraryLover]

It doesn't have to be everything, but it could be something. This bubble has to burst. How many people are really going to be able to pay these loans in a timely fashion without compromising their future financial stability? One can't default on student loans,. These students will have a lesser ability to buy homes, pay rent etc.

 

If you're going to be umemployed, might as well not be heavily in debt for the education you're not using.

 

Of course, Europe isn't having a much better time of it economically. Big changes, especially in pensions and retirment age have come about in the past few years. And as Laura Corin has stated before, in the UK, fees and tuition is rising.

 

Right now, Europeans are experiencing massive unemployment in southern Europe and disturbing levels in northern Europe. Youth unemployment in Spain is 50%. What do you do with thousands of degreed young people who have been educated on the state dime - a state that is running massive deficits and will likely default on their bonds? Austerity, recession, default. But, hey, at least they're well educated, right?

 

Our current educational system is a bubble. Providing "free" college for all won't resolve our issues, but I'm sure it would make parents and students feel good about getting something for nothing

Edited April 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[TranquilMind]

Parents now take out what is called a Parent PLUS loan. Every year you can take out the cost of tuition. It is under the parent's name and is not transferrable to the student.

 

Interest starts accumulating when the money is disbursed' date=' but you can choose to defer the interest and principal, or just the principal, until the student graduates. The interest is 7.9%

 

The scary thing is that they do not do a income to debit check for this loan. They only do a credit check. So if you have good credit and no bankruptcy history, you could borrow 100k, 200K and upwards. And then you have 10 years to pay it off starting from the day they graduate. They just keep giving you the money when you ask for it. And then you are buried.[/quote']

Those Parent loans are outrageous, and calling them part of an "award", which I understand they do, is just insulting. My spouse will be 50 the year our first kid goes to college and I'm older by several years.

 

I can't imagine borrowing the equivalent of a hefty mortgage in my 50's! How will this possibly be paid in the event that the parents cannot continue to work until they drop over. Then we are saddling our children -or the system - with our elder care needs, because we have these financial obligations, that may well not be met if anything bad happens preventing ongoing work.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but it doesn't involve us taking on debt over age 50. Daughter and son have really high stats right now. We will have to see...

 

How I wish that the "Child of a disabled Veteran" benefits extended to grandchildren!

[Brenda in MA]

My mantra regarding college is to start saving at birth. Parents on this board have regularly pooh-poohed me. But having taught at state universities, I have witnessed how few students at our public institutions earn scholarships. Sure, they are a "bargain" compared to private colleges, but many parents do not have the $60K+ for state schools.

 

:iagree: with Jane. Start saving early.

 

The other advice I would give (to those with younger kids, especially) is that when you are shopping for a house, do not overbuy. See if you can find something you can afford on a 15 yr mortgage. You might have to settle for something a little smaller than you'd like.

 

However, if you buy the house when the dc are young, and you can pay it off just as they are going to college, you'll have a nice stream of income to divert to college costs when the time comes.

 

Brenda

[TranquilMind]

The situation is very different. Night and day. And Hell to the Yes about state school 'fees'. It's a sick and sad joke.

That is really appalling that they do this. I'm starting to hate the whole sick, twisted process.

 

It really wasn't anything like this back in the 70's when I applied.

[TranquilMind]

Well, we did choose the CC route....and it my girls graduated with very little debt from their schools of choice....

 

They both had jobs during college years....kept a 4.0 at the CC and received very generous transfer scholarships.

They did have a college experience...they had their own experience....and did amazingly well. Don't frown on the CC experience. It is also a college experience albeit a different one.

You sound very wise. And you have LOTS of experience, from your signature line!

 

That's encouraging.

[Halcyon]

:iagree: with Jane. Start saving early.

 

The other advice I would give (to those with younger kids, especially) is that when you are shopping for a house, do not overbuy. See if you can find something you can afford on a 15 yr mortgage. You might have to settle for something a little smaller than you'd like.

 

However, if you buy the house when the dc are young, and you can pay it off just as they are going to college, you'll have a nice stream of income to divert to college costs when the time comes.

 

Brenda

 

 

We have been saving for college with a 529 since the kids were born and have only $40,000 in one and $35,000 in another. It probably won't make a dent in their tuition. And over the last couple of years we've been unable to put anything into their funds. We also are in the midst of buying our first ever home, which is well within our budget, but still. This economy is killing our ability to save.

[TranquilMind]

LisaK in VA: This is us... we've had our investments/savings wiped out twice in 15 years. The first time, we lost $70,000. The second time, $30,000. We are still recovering. My oldest son's college fund is still worth less than when it was started...13 years ago.

 

 

Ditto, and probably true for everyone who has been in the market since the late 90's.

 

We also invested in real estate. Had we done so a decade earlier, we would have doubled or tripled our money. Today, the houses are estimated at about what we paid for them - over a decade ago. No appreciation at all, which was hopefully going to cover college and maybe a little retirement.

[Mom2Es]

It's been a while since I was in that game, but did she not apply for any "community" scholarships, or did she just not get them? My siblings won a ton of scholarship money from civic clubs, Wal-Mart, essay contests, programs like that. None of the individual scholarships was large, but they were not tied to choosing any one college and they did add up (for what it's worth, I applied for several, but didn't win any).

 

How does a student get a 4.07 with B's on her record? Like I said, it's been a while since I was in that game, but have they really watered down the scale that much? The MAX we could get was 4.0 even with AP classes and straight A's (and an A was 95 - 100).

[TranquilMind]

By the way, the old trick of declaring financial independence from parents rarely works anymore unless a student gets married. A few years ago, poster Kareni offered to become our Well Trained matchmaker. ;)

 

It wasn't even a "trick" when I was college age. I was self-supporting and living in my own place at 20. From that time on, I could apply on my own, because I was an independent adult.

 

The trick is pretending that NO young adult is independent until after the age of 26, unless married, emancipated legally, or in the military. That's ridiculous. Some are completely on their own, though in this economy, many are not. They should not be penalized for this previously normal situation.

[TranquilMind]

It's been a while since I was in that game, but did she not apply for any "community" scholarships, or did she just not get them? My siblings won a ton of scholarship money from civic clubs, Wal-Mart, essay contests, programs like that. None of the individual scholarships was large, but they were not tied to choosing any one college and they did add up (for what it's worth, I applied for several, but didn't win any).

 

How does a student get a 4.07 with B's on her record? Like I said, it's been a while since I was in that game, but have they really watered down the scale that much? The MAX we could get was 4.0 even with AP classes and straight A's (and an A was 95 - 100).

They weight AP's and Honors classes higher than 4 today. For example, an A in an AP class is a 5, and an Honors class is something like 4.3 bringing straight A students up closer to 5 in GPA.

 

My daughter has a 4.78 or something like that right now.

 

It doesn't really matter, as most colleges only look at unweighted GPA's, I understand.

[mommymilkies]

I visited a friend who is teaching graduate school in Paris this semester. She showed me an email from a GRADUATE student who had not been to class at all, but was complaining about an assignment that was basically a 5 paragraph essay. She had the nerve to use the word unfair.

 

My friend is failing more than 50% of her students. They do not take their free education seriously at all.

It's no different here. My dh is a professor and when I went to college just a few years ago, I would say 75% of the students totally goofed off and would get mad at the profs when they failed. It was insane. I was a parent and had to work through college, so I worked my tail off!

 

As for the "college experience", I have 2 brothers currently in college and I went to a "party school" by reputation. I do NOT want the "college experience" for my kids that many look forward to. I never had it, either did dh (worked through college and went for an *education*). My kids will either go to college for an education or not go at all on my dime if you KWIM. I'm not sending them as an excuse to fly the nest and drink themselves into oblivion.

[mommymilkies]

Right now, Europeans are experiencing massive unemployment in southern Europe and disturbing levels in northern Europe. Youth unemployment in Spain is 50%. What do you do with thousands of degreed young people who have been educated on the state dime - a state that is running massive deficits and will likely default on their bonds? Austerity, recession, default. But, hey, at least they're well educated, right?

 

Our current educational system is a bubble. Providing "free" college for all won't resolve our issues, but I'm sure it would make parents and students feel good about getting something for nothing

 

For nothing? What about the larger tax burden shouldered by the public. That directly affects them. FWIW, I am all for public funded educations extending into college. IF the grades keep up. If you can't keep a decent GPA, or don't bother attending class, it's time to look at an alternate route in life.

[NASDAQ]

"Doing something about the problem" has led to a lot of the fix we're in now. The more the government subsidizes student loans and grants, the higher tuition will go.

 

We're Canadian and have a good in-city school. I paid 9K/year for law school (graduated 2008). And I finished my honours BA in three and an half years, as did my husband. More than four is not acceptable for me.

[mommymilkies]

"Doing something about the problem" has led to a lot of the fix we're in now. The more the government subsidizes student loans and grants, the higher tuition will go.

 

We're Canadian and have a good in-city school. I paid 9K/year for law school (graduated 2008). And I finished my honours BA in three and an half years, as did my husband. More than four is not acceptable for me.

 

I don't think the problem is government subsidization. I have experience with two universities, in particular, which were affordable until they decided to overhaul the grounds. Not by changing the old, nasty buildings that needed an update for over a decade. But adding huge modern art fancy additions for no reason to make it more "appealing". Then they realize they went a hundred million over budget or whatever so fees & tuition jump enormously. But they have a new pretty shiny entrance to a couple buildings (where no doubt the toilets still run and the ceiling still drips). The college my dh works at had massive layoffs because the state actually can't pay it's bills. That's not the biggest problem. The 6 or so extraneous administrative personnel that make more than 4 professors (each!) are still hired while they laid off 20 teachers. The system in this country knows nothing about prioritizing. /rant

[justamouse]

My BIL in Europe put 4 kids through college, and nobody owes anything. Something has got to give here.

:iagree:

 

17 yo is looking at colleges, and there seems to be a a magic $ out there-about 25k per year. Some are 36, and of course higher, but the ones she's looking at are all between the 25, 36k range.

 

I'm a don't count your chickens person, and I am looking at her graduating with 100k of debt. Sorry girlie, I won't do that to you, you'll never climb out from under it.

 

All of her friends who are seniors are going to CC. All of them. Many didn't even apply because their families just can't afford it.

 

Kids from really good schools who are in honors, are not even applying, they are just going to county.

 

One of the workers at the horse farm left pre med after 2 years, 40k in debt (after them telling her she had all kinds of scholarships) and she's just working on the farm, she has no idea what she's going to do because she has these bills to pay and nothing to show for it.

 

People get up on a high horse about how you HAVE to go to college, and yes, I DO want that for my kids. With all my heart, I do. But the bill will cripple them from getting anywhere and I want them to have the freedom of living without debt more than I want for them to get a degree.

 

CC is going to have to be good enough for us.

[ktgrok]

This is a very sincere question because I just don't understand -- has college increased that much since I attended 20 years ago? I graduated with a bachelor of arts from a state college in the early 1990s. My parents didn't pay a dime. I had a few small scholarships my first year and then just worked my way through for years 2-4.5. I received some grants and had some loans, but when I graduated, the loans were less than $10,000 I believe (and part of me wants to say half of that). I had them paid off before I married two years after I graduated. My husband also paid for his own schooling (same college) and I don't believe he took out any loans at all, just worked his way through. What has changed so drastically much? I remember hearing "college is expensive" back then, too.

 

We have no plans to fund a post-secondary education for our kids. I have a great job right now that I was trained for in six weeks. My husband never used his degree either and makes decent money.

 

To the OP, thanks for your post. It had one particular point in it that was useful for me. I'm sorry you're facing what you're facing (although I'd recommend the community college route all the same; I had the "college experience" and don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be).

 

Yes, the cost of education has skyrocketed compared to inflation and pay increases. If you google you can get some impressive and scary looking graphs.

[JennifersLost]

We could have written the OP, too.

 

After everything, my oldest decided to forego higher education all together for now. He want to be a game programmer, which my dh is, so he's essentially apprenticed himself to dh. They are programming a game together and splitting the profits. He'll go take classes if and when he needs them, but there's no plan for a degree for now. He's taught himself many programming languages already. School almost slows you down when it comes to the type of programming he's doing.

 

The others are now very clear that they're first two years will be at CC, that they need to have a plan for paying at least half their way through school, that it may take them a number of years, and that we no longer care about the "experience" of going off to college. It's not worth the excessive cost.

[SweetPea]

I am going back to work and probably could save enough to pay a majority of their college expenses, but we don't think that's really a good thing. They need to invest in their education and take ownership. We think it'll help them work harder, and if not, they can go to work.

 

Our thinking is to put some money away to help them get started out in life. Moving, deposits for apartment, setting up a household, car (if they don't have one). Life is quite expensive!

[LibraryLover]

I agree. I am also struck by the number of extremely bright kids going to the local uni (which has some wonderful and respected programs, thankfully) and living at home. This was just not done in my day, in the area I lived. You went away. Period. These particular kids seem very mature to me.

 

We could have written the OP, too.

 

The others are now very clear that they're first two years will be at CC, that they need to have a plan for paying at least half their way through school, that it may take them a number of years, and that we no longer care about the "experience" of going off to college. It's not worth the excessive cost.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Runningmom80]

:iagree: with Jane. Start saving early.

 

The other advice I would give (to those with younger kids, especially) is that when you are shopping for a house, do not overbuy. See if you can find something you can afford on a 15 yr mortgage. You might have to settle for something a little smaller than you'd like.

 

However, if you buy the house when the dc are young, and you can pay it off just as they are going to college, you'll have a nice stream of income to divert to college costs when the time comes.

 

Brenda

 

 

This is excellent advice, and something I will keep in mind when we start house hunting.

[Nan in Mass]

Thank you for posting this. Yes, college, even state schools (sometimes especially state schools) are expensive. I have two in college and one close. They have loans. We have savings. The grandparents contribute. We have loans. They will graduate with majors that give them a chance of paying back their loans. We are making this work. A while ago, I tried to make a series of polls to show how hard it is to pay for college via scholarships, debt-free because it seemed like many people here took it for granted that their students would receive enough non-loan type aid to graduate with no debt. I think your post probably will do more to help people with their expectations than my polls.

 

Nan

[catz]

:iagree: with Jane. Start saving early.

 

The other advice I would give (to those with younger kids, especially) is that when you are shopping for a house, do not overbuy. See if you can find something you can afford on a 15 yr mortgage. You might have to settle for something a little smaller than you'd like.

 

However, if you buy the house when the dc are young, and you can pay it off just as they are going to college, you'll have a nice stream of income to divert to college costs when the time comes.

 

Brenda

 

:iagree: this is our plan. Our house should be paid off when our oldest gets to college age. We are encouraging state schools and possibly living at home for undergrad. We have at least a half dozen good schools and a couple CC commuting distance. We live 5 blocks from a competitive big ten school. Kids can think bigger for grad school if they want.

 

Anyway thanks to the OP for the continued reality check.

[Lolly]

I don't think the problem is government subsidization. I have experience with two universities, in particular, which were affordable until they decided to overhaul the grounds. Not by changing the old, nasty buildings that needed an update for over a decade. But adding huge modern art fancy additions for no reason to make it more "appealing". Then they realize they went a hundred million over budget or whatever so fees & tuition jump enormously. But they have a new pretty shiny entrance to a couple buildings (where no doubt the toilets still run and the ceiling still drips). The college my dh works at had massive layoffs because the state actually can't pay it's bills. That's not the biggest problem. The 6 or so extraneous administrative personnel that make more than 4 professors (each!) are still hired while they laid off 20 teachers. The system in this country knows nothing about prioritizing. /rant

 

If it is like the universities here, they decided to do the overhauls and add the extremely large athletic complex for the kids shortly after the large government subsidization started. Quite strangely, the tuition almost immediately increased a startlingly similar amount to what the government had kicked in. Hey, they parents were used to putting that amount in anyway. The surplus went to starting improvements. Then, the economy crashed. Oops, we need more $ to continue down the road we started. increase more. That is oversimplified, but basically what happened here. Now, the kids are going to a beautiful school with amenities they will never be able to afford when they graduate. (Exactly why do these kids need a fitness facility that is much nicer than any other available in the large city? Why do they need gardens with waterfalls alongside the sidewalks and patios?)

[butterflymommy]

My impression is that unless you're poor or a non-asian minority it's difficult to get aid, even with a stellar academic record. My kids are minorities but even so I'm not counting on any scholarships. I'm hoping to manage with local CC and public colleges while they live at home. We're solidly middle class but with 7 kids nothing else will be feasible financially. If one of them happens to get a full aid package then great but we're not putting any eggs in that basket. Even with this no frills plan, I'm very, very worried about pulling it off financially.

[Wabi Sabi]

I just looked up the closest state university. This is tuition & mandatory fees only per semester:

 

 

Credit-Hour Fees: (Flat Rate) $4,375.00

Mandatory Fees: Technology Fee: $197.28

Transportation Fee: $61.36

Student Health Fee: $110.22

Activity Fee: $92.74

Temporary Repair & Rehab Fee: $180.00

Program Fees: $26.79

Total: $5,043.39

 

In addition a standard room (shared double room, no AC, pretty basic) is roughly $5,500/year. A dining plan will set you back an additional $3,500. So, we're now just over $19k/year without considering parking (can be $200 or more per semester), a bus pass to get around the enormous campus , orientation fees or books (when I was in college 15 years ago I often spent $500-$700 on books every semester!)

 

Adding it all up is rather sobering. To add to the mess, dh and I won't even be done paying on OUR loans when it's time for our kids to attend college. Children of full-time employees do get free tuition at the state university and we live very close to it, so I'm hoping that my children will want to attend state and I'll get a job slinging hash in one of the cafeterias while they're attending if that's what it takes.

[CAMom]

I'm only through page 2 so far but...

 

My son is a freshman at UCLA. He was a National Merit Commended Scholar (missed semi-finalist by 2 points) and scored a 2220 on his SAT. He did not receive a dime in financial aid.

 

With tuition, room, board, fees and books we are paying $30K per year for him to attend.

 

Even good test scores don't necessarily mean a thing!

[amy g.]

Here, community college classes are subsidized by our property tax so long as a student is in high school.

 

I just paid $128.00 for the 6 hours my son is taking over the summer. It would have been $374 if he was college age.

 

Even if I had all of the money in the world, that is just too much of a savings compared to going away to a 4 year school for the entire undergraduate degree for me to not take advantage of it.

[Julie in MN]

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college' date=' and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.[/quote']

 

This might be a key problem for you. Sadly, almost all aid (medical, educational, etc) expects you to first pay what you have. I mean, that's perfectly reasonable, -except- that means you are better off in the aid dept. if you have spent thoughtlessly than if you have saved carefully. Sometimes it helps if you use the money to pay off debts or pay ahead on a mortgage or something like that, so you don't have cash on hand, just waiting to pay for educational expenses.

 

Once you have spent your savings, you might get a little more help (or reduced fees, if you want to look at it that way).

 

Julie

[FairProspects]

Here, community college classes are subsidized by our property tax so long as a student is in high school.

 

I just paid $128.00 for the 6 hours my son is taking over the summer. It would have been $374 if he was college age.

 

Even if I had all of the money in the world, that is just too much of a savings compared to going away to a 4 year school for the entire undergraduate degree for me to not take advantage of it.

 

But what if the classes are easier than your high school or homeschool? That actually was the situation of the CC in my hometown. Then you are paying real dollars for a sub-par education.

 

And what if your child wants to be a science or math major where the university requires the pre-reqs to occur on campus? Then you end up re-paying for those credits at the university level. I've heard of this happening to several friends with college-age children.

 

There are just too many factors and too many rules within the system for me to make a straight determination about CC cost - it may be the cheapest solution up front and be the most costly in the end due to lost opportunities or re-takes.

[amy g.]

That may be the case where you are, but here, our community college has agreements with the state schools.

 

Ds is on a degree plan that is guaranteed to transfer fully to at least 5 state schools that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Barbara H]

Interesting thread with many good posts. One thing that is too often overlooked is that the price of state universities vary widely from one state to another. Some people are looking at much higher in state rates for public colleges.

 

My suggestions:

1. For people with younger kids - go ahead now and take a look at the net price calculators. Get a realistic idea of what costs you will likely be facing. http://netpricecalculator.collegeboard.org/

 

2. For everyone - be up front with your kids about what you can afford early in the process. Have real conversations about debt and how large amounts can really affect life. Don't just "ignore the sticker price" and assume it will work out. It is better to be really direct about it before kids get a fixed idea that they will be going to a particular kind of school.

 

3. Create the college list carefully paying attention to cost and typical merit awards. As another poster pointed out, remember that particularly for the public university merit awards it can be really competitive. Some schools have great awards listed but then you find out there are just 20 given for an entering class of 8,000 students.

 

4. For kids who are able to score high on tests - it is reasonable to put some prep into it. Obviously that's not going to work for every kid or for most kids, but it is one of the concrete things that can make a significant difference for some. Also, for high testers, pay attention when you put together that college list and make sure you are choosing some schools where you are near the top of the applicant pool.

[jallison25]

But if you live close to the university why can't the kids stay home? Then you are looking at around 11000. That seems pretty reasonable to me? Our closest college (university of cincinnati) is around 12000 a year.

 

I just looked up the closest state university. This is tuition & mandatory fees only per semester:

 

 

Credit-Hour Fees: (Flat Rate) $4,375.00

Mandatory Fees: Technology Fee: $197.28

Transportation Fee: $61.36

Student Health Fee: $110.22

Activity Fee: $92.74

Temporary Repair & Rehab Fee: $180.00

Program Fees: $26.79

Total: $5,043.39

 

In addition a standard room (shared double room, no AC, pretty basic) is roughly $5,500/year. A dining plan will set you back an additional $3,500. So, we're now just over $19k/year without considering parking (can be $200 or more per semester), a bus pass to get around the enormous campus , orientation fees or books (when I was in college 15 years ago I often spent $500-$700 on books every semester!)

 

Adding it all up is rather sobering. To add to the mess, dh and I won't even be done paying on OUR loans when it's time for our kids to attend college. Children of full-time employees do get free tuition at the state university and we live very close to it, so I'm hoping that my children will want to attend state and I'll get a job slinging hash in one of the cafeterias while they're attending if that's what it takes.

[Jane in NC]

This might be a key problem for you. Sadly, almost all aid (medical, educational, etc) expects you to first pay what you have. I mean, that's perfectly reasonable, -except- that means you are better off in the aid dept. if you have spent thoughtlessly than if you have saved carefully. Sometimes it helps if you use the money to pay off debts or pay ahead on a mortgage or something like that, so you don't have cash on hand, just waiting to pay for educational expenses.

 

Once you have spent your savings, you might get a little more help (or reduced fees, if you want to look at it that way).

 

Julie

 

I am not so sure about this.

 

When FAFSA calculates the EFC, it assumes that parents have been saving--whether or not they have. Repeatedly we have heard from parents over on the College Board note that their EFC is $25K+--and they have nothing like that in their savings.

[Paige]

FWIW, I am all for public funded educations extending into college. IF the grades keep up. If you can't keep a decent GPA, or don't bother attending class, it's time to look at an alternate route in life.

 

Then, the universities get into the trap where they are getting so much money from the gvmt for each student. They don't want to fail these students or give them grades that will kick them out of the money stream. I was a TA for a while and despite blatant plagiarism, copying, and papers so bad that my 4th grader could do better, the professor would not let me turn anyone in, fail anyone, or do anything that would upset those students. She said she would get in trouble with the admin if she was responsible for too many funded students failing. That was the day I decided that I would not become a professor! That was 8 yrs ago at a highly respected school. I doubt it is any better now.

[Momof3littles]

Then, the universities get into the trap where they are getting so much money from the gvmt for each student. They don't want to fail these students or give them grades that will kick them out of the money stream. I was a TA for a while and despite blatant plagiarism, copying, and papers so bad that my 4th grader could do better, the professor would not let me turn anyone in, fail anyone, or do anything that would upset those students. She said she would get in trouble with the admin if she was responsible for too many funded students failing. That was the day I decided that I would not become a professor! That was 8 yrs ago at a highly respected school. I doubt it is any better now.

DH experienced this while TAing in graduate school as well. He had students who were upperclassmen in chemistry courses and would not complete large parts of their lab report. Portions like the discussion...you know, kind of the meat and bones of what you are supposed to be writing about. He wasn't allowed to fail them for not even bothering to hand in large, important sections of the paper. Basically, everyone was guaranteed a B. And these were not freshman, so really inexcusable IMO.

The atmosphere was that these students were to be pushed through.

[Barbara H]

I am not so sure about this.

 

When FAFSA calculates the EFC, it assumes that parents have been saving--whether or not they have. Repeatedly we have heard from parents over on the College Board note that their EFC is $25K+--and they have nothing like that in their savings.

 

Agree.

 

This post explains it well: http://www.thecollegesolution.com/will-saving-for-college-hurt-your-chances-for-financial-aid

[Starr]

And schools are going up around 3% to 5%. Financial aide will not increase to compensate. Even with a great financial aide package the end cost will be several thousand dollars more. These kids are in it for the long haul.

[valkett]

We are planning on our kids doing 2 years at CC and then transferring to a state university. We have been paying for 2 years at the state university for each of them through the prepaid tuition program and then hoping the CC costs don't skyrocket between now and then so that we can pay as we go or at least pay as much as we can.

 

Now, if someone gets a full ride, they are welcome to go wherever they want to, but even our plan above will be a strain for us financially. I'd love for my kids to have a full college experience (if they want it), but I'm not going to go into heavy debt right before retirement to make that happen. I didn't have the full college experience and neither did my brother and yet all turned otu well for us and I don't think either of us feel like we missed out.

 

I think one key is not building expectations when the kids are younger. I am telling my kids now that they will have to work hard if they want to go away to school and that, even then, they may not be able to. I am also not going to build up the whole idea of going away to college. I'm not saying the OP did, but these are just plans that I have for managing all of this.

 

I will help my kids with college, but unless we get some windfall, I cannot go into a huge amount of debt.

 

Lisa

 

:iagree:

This is what we are doing. My kids have to go to community college first. They have to prove to us that they are ready for college, plus community college will help them figure out what they want to do. We can pay as they go for community college and have put away for a couple years at state school.

 

Val

[Susan in TN]

 

This whole process has been an eye-opener. For us' date=' there were no full rides. I am not sure just what acheivements the student has to have to get that kind of money, but it is tougher than you think. So many scholarships were not even available to us because we are considered middle class and could not show "significant financial need."

 

My husband and I have about 30K saved for their college, and yet it will be a drop in the bucket.[/quote']

 

Thank you for sharing this. Ds will be a junior next year - time to really start looking at schools and narrowing them down. Dh and I were both so fortunate to graduate with NO college debt - my in-laws paid for all of his, and through work and scholarships I paid for 3/4 of mine. But I also realize that that was 20 years ago. We have some decent state universities in the area, and a couple of private school possibilities, but I just keep praying that God will guide my heart away from PANIC and toward His perfect plan for my kids.

[Denise in Florida]

Parents now take out what is called a Parent PLUS loan. Every year you can take out the cost of tuition. It is under the parent's name and is not transferrable to the student.

 

Interest starts accumulating when the money is disbursed' date=' but you can choose to defer the interest and principal, or just the principal, until the student graduates. The interest is 7.9%[/b']

 

The scary thing is that they do not do a income to debit check for this loan. They only do a credit check. So if you have good credit and no bankruptcy history, you could borrow 100k, 200K and upwards. And then you have 10 years to pay it off starting from the day they graduate. They just keep giving you the money when you ask for it. And then you are buried.[/QUOTE]

 

 

(bolding mine) :iagree::iagree: This is going to be a huge mess in a few years. I have one in college and one getting ready to start college in the Fall.

 

Tuition is skyrocketing

Aide is disappearing

College fund crashed in 2008

 

I know we are not alone but I am very distressed about my dds' futures.

[Janice in NJ]

Unless it's already been discussed. Most colleges talk now in terms of "6-year graduation" rates because so few kids actually earn a diploma in four. Not GOOD if you're planning by taking your freshman costs and multiplying by four. College costs tend to go up more than inflation. Multiply by more than four years? Add in interest if you are borrowing? The situation gets ugly quickly.

 

I've found this site very helpful.

 

http://www.collegeresults.org/default.aspx

 

For example, The College of New Jersey is our in-state ivy. 71% of kids graduate in four years. That means nearly 30% of the parents are going to need to pay for more than four years. And it costs over $26,000 per year (T/R/B). For our in-state PUBLIC school.

 

And that's our "ivy". Our mega-in-state public is Rutgers. Their Newark campus has a four-year graduation rate of 29.7%. Yup. I wrote that correctly. Less than a third of the kids who start there as freshman have a diploma four years laters. Now there's something they don't print in the glossy brochures, eh? :confused:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Denise in Florida]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

That is not an option for all fields of study. It is not just about the 'college experience', dd20 blew through the highest level of math offered by our community college before she graduated high school.

 

The community college here is overwhelmed and underfunded. The 'advanced' classes cap out quickly. Other than saving the cost of the dorm it is not worth the price differential.

 

small example: This semester they offered 7 sections of remedial arthimetic (adding, subtracting, multiplying etc) this was at full tuition price and no college credit earned; they offered one section of calculus 1. Calculus 2 and 3 are offered once a year, if you don't hit the cycle correctly it can take extra years to complete the limited number of advanced classes they carry.

 

For us it really had to be a four year college. We were lucky that she found a terrific school in the public system and she received several scholarships. With luck child 1 will have less than 25K debt.

 

That fact that I think that is a good deal and can use the word 'luck' in that sentence makes me want to cry.

[mommy5]

I haven't read all of the pages and posts but I'm wondering if anyone has mentioned CLEP tests and others like it? Is there a possibility of testing out of 1/2 of the workload and basically just going for their "major/minor" classes?

[FairProspects]

I haven't read all of the pages and posts but I'm wondering if anyone has mentioned CLEP tests and others like it? Is there a possibility of testing out of 1/2 of the workload and basically just going for their "major/minor" classes?

 

 

Not even remotely possible here. The closest state university will not grant any credit whatsoever for CLEPs. They offer a few for AP, but are even cutting back on offering credit for those.

[Jane in NC]

I haven't read all of the pages and posts but I'm wondering if anyone has mentioned CLEP tests and others like it? Is there a possibility of testing out of 1/2 of the workload and basically just going for their "major/minor" classes?

 

Yes it has been mentioned. But not every college accepts CLEP credits. Many colleges now are limiting the number of courses that students can place out of via CLEP or AP.

 

I always like to add to these threads that policies at colleges are subject to change. So even the best laid plans may come undone over time.