So cross

[Melissa in Australia]

Twin two aged 12 and full knowing better despite having ID, sometime in the last 24 hours took over $300 of science kits. The next 2 years of science curriculum from the shelf he knew he wasn't to touch. And has been able to refrain from touching for the last several years and pulled them all to pieces, destroying all components, scattering them all round his room. He didn't actually do a single experiment, just destroyed. 

 I am so increadably cross. Wish I was able to go push several wheel burrows or dig a hole or something to get rid of all the crossness instead of being stuck in a hospital bed fuming 

[Melissa in Australia]

The shelf is in lounge room. 

[Melissa Louise]

That's really frustrating. 

Do you think maybe it's a way of expressing his anxiety/worry about you? A really unhelpful way, of course.

It must be so hard not being able to be at home. 

[Melissa in Australia]

It is just because dh can't provide 24 hour supervision and twins are taking full advantage of it. 

 

[MercyA]

I'm so sorry. I would be cross too. All kids do foolish things, but they are not usually so expensive. 

Hugs to you. It's probably best for your health and well being if you can make a conscious decision to let it go.

[Ottakee]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

It is just because dh can't provide 24 hour supervision and twins are taking full advantage of it. 

 

I so wish you had access to better/more services for them.  No one can provide 24/7 eyes on supervision to 12 year olds

[cintinative]

I would be cross too. Is there a pillow you can beat up? I am so sorry.

[Melissa in Australia]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I'm so sorry. I would be cross too. All kids do foolish things, but they are not usually so expensive. 

Hugs to you. It's probably best for your health and well being if you can make a conscious decision to let it go.

He stole $200 2 weeks ago to buy a broken toy from a kid at school. (he can't count so had no idea of the amount of money) 

He destroyed multiple tools in the shed in the last week

Ruined keepsakes that my older children made 3 days ago, the few I had hide away and really valued for the memories 

It is completely out of control at home. Everything being ransacked. 

[Katy]

Is there emergency respite you can get?

[Halftime Hope]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

ruined keepsakes

Oh, gosh. I'm so very sorry. That is so heartbreaking. I remember a similarly sad loss that I still grieve. Oh, Melissa...just sending a hug.  Is there any way for your family to get anyone from the community to come help?

[Melissa in Australia]

We can't even get family to help Unless it is an absolute emergancy 

[bolt.]

That's so hard on all of you! He was able to resist them with the added help of adults keeping an eye on him, but without that help, he can't do the same things. And now it's just gone: your great and expensive sciencey future, flushed. It's awful.

I don't know if advice is in order, or if I'm just being 'that friend' here -- but it's the second time I've had this thought. Maybe it helps. I think it might be time to have a few friends or family (if possible) come and do a thorough "teen-proofing" on your home. If I'm recalling correctly, your children, based on their condition, are not expected to significantly improve their impulse control in the near future, right? They are special needs, and these are the needs that they have.

In which case, the factors add up in my mind that they really need a "Prepared Environment" (as it would be put in Montessori philosophy).

These kids live rurally, somewhere with various indoor and outdoor obligations for the adults, with a single parent (for now), and at least for a while after that (possibly a long while) a single capable parent working together with a disabled parent -- and they only go to school for school-hours on school days. Those are the 'factors' I mean.

The "Prepared Environment" I mean is that some parts of their home should be spaces where they don't need to rely on their own impulse control (or external supervision) in order to be personally safe, and for important things not to be damaged. To me, that suggests, at least, that certain off-limits spaces (rooms? cabinets?) should be locked with keys, and that the entry/exit points should be alarmed. This relaxes the kids emotionally, and relaxes the intensity of their need for direct supervision on the parents' side. It's a normal progression for taking care of kids with these factors for the next 10+ years.

It's a worthwhile investment.

It will help stop all of this from feeling like misbehaviour, like risk, like unsafety and insecurity of your own belongings and finances... and changes it into making a home that is suitable for the people who are actually living in it. It requires facing 'needs' head-on as *needs* not as things that you-all can do without if you just try hard and keep a good attitude. My catch phrase is "Solve the problem, not the people." -- because people can't be 'solved', but problems can.

If friends aren't possible to make this project more attainable, consider hiring a handyman for a few hours to assist your husband in assessing the spaces and installing locks.

Edited September 21, 2023 by bolt.

[Melissa in Australia]

Dh and I have already decided we need locks.. He just hasn't had time to go buy them. We will have to lock every single door apart from the bathroom and  their bedrooms. The kitchen and lounge room are open plan. 

We already have locked cupboards. They found the key a few weeks ago. 

We already have locked medical safe, locked cash box for matches, etc. It is a constant battle hiding keys 

So where to put the keys is the next big problem 

[bolt.]

It sounds like keeping keys on bodies is the right step at this point.

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It sounds like keeping keys on bodies is the right step at this point.

Yup. I’d be putting them on an under clothing travel belt so they aren’t even aware Dh is wearing them.

[bolt.]

I'm trying to think outside the box here... Can your husband lock the children in the back seat of your vehicle? I mean VERY briefly, while he completes the outdoor chores as quickly as humanly possible -- just for their own safety for those few minutes of necessary undersupervision? (Even I don't quite know what I think of that idea... it's borderline, for sure.)

[kbutton]

They make locking lockboxes for workplace environments that are sturdy and can be mounted on the wall. Then maybe your DH could wear just the lockbox key.

 

[kbutton]

Would combination locks be an option? Would they be capable of opening a combination lock?

[Melissa in Australia]

Twin 1 has this uncanny ability to remember and crack the most complex code 

[Ausmumof3]

Do you still have involvement with the people who placed the twins with you initially? Your circumstances have changed and I wonder if they can provide some extra support either in terms of respite care so your DH can set things up better at home or paid help to get things done? 
 

I know they’re pretty hopeless in general but surely given the circumstances something should be able to be provided.

[Longtime Lurker]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

That's so hard on all of you! He was able to resist them with the added help of adults keeping an eye on him, but without that help, he can't do the same things. And now it's just gone: your great and expensive sciencey future, flushed. It's awful.

I don't know if advice is in order, or if I'm just being 'that friend' here -- but it's the second time I've had this thought. Maybe it helps. I think it might be time to have a few friends or family (if possible) come and do a thorough "teen-proofing" on your home. If I'm recalling correctly, your children, based on their condition, are not expected to significantly improve their impulse control in the near future, right? They are special needs, and these are the needs that they have.

In which case, the factors add up in my mind that they really need a "Prepared Environment" (as it would be put in Montessori philosophy).

These kids live rurally, somewhere with various indoor and outdoor obligations for the adults, with a single parent (for now), and at least for a while after that (possibly a long while) a single capable parent working together with a disabled parent -- and they only go to school for school-hours on school days. Those are the 'factors' I mean.

The "Prepared Environment" I mean is that some parts of their home should be spaces where they don't need to rely on their own impulse control (or external supervision) in order to be personally safe, and for important things not to be damaged. To me, that suggests, at least, that certain off-limits spaces (rooms? cabinets?) should be locked with keys, and that the entry/exit points should be alarmed. This relaxes the kids emotionally, and relaxes the intensity of their need for direct supervision on the parents' side. It's a normal progression for taking care of kids with these factors for the next 10+ years.

It's a worthwhile investment.

It will help stop all of this from feeling like misbehaviour, like risk, like unsafety and insecurity of your own belongings and finances... and changes it into making a home that is suitable for the people who are actually living in it. It requires facing 'needs' head-on as *needs* not as things that you-all can do without if you just try hard and keep a good attitude. My catch phrase is "Solve the problem, not the people." -- because people can't be 'solved', but problems can.

If friends aren't possible to make this project more attainable, consider hiring a handyman for a few hours to assist your husband in assessing the spaces and installing locks.

Yes, this. We have done this and it removes a lot of stress and protects some special items.

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Dh and I have already decided we need locks.. He just hasn't had time to go buy them. We will have to lock every single door apart from the bathroom and  their bedrooms. The kitchen and lounge room are open plan. 

We already have locked cupboards. They found the key a few weeks ago. 

We already have locked medical safe, locked cash box for matches, etc. It is a constant battle hiding keys 

So where to put the keys is the next big problem 

When we have foster kids in our home, the keys live on my body in my pocket. I literally sleep with them as well. 

(I know it's not easy, Melissa. Warm hugs for you and your dh.)

[MercyA]

I am so sorry, Melissa. I wish all of us here were there to help you!!!

[Frances]

4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

It is just because dh can't provide 24 hour supervision and twins are taking full advantage of it. 

 

Is he able to maybe have them do lots of physical labor so they are too exhausted to make trouble? Hugs, I can’t even fathom the stress your family is experiencing. I hope things get better very soon.

[Melissa in Australia]

Dh is in his 60s, he tires faster than active 12 year olds. 

He takes them for long walks and fishing every single day, for hours every day. 

They cannot be assigned a task and be expected to complete it without someone physically standing there supervising. They will Just make the appearance of doing the task, wait until adult thinks they are doing it and gets detracted then nick off to do some more stealing /ransacking/casing out area for later. 

[Laura Corin]

7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Dh and I have already decided we need locks.. He just hasn't had time to go buy them. We will have to lock every single door apart from the bathroom and  their bedrooms. The kitchen and lounge room are open plan. 

We already have locked cupboards. They found the key a few weeks ago. 

We already have locked medical safe, locked cash box for matches, etc. It is a constant battle hiding keys 

So where to put the keys is the next big problem 

If the can't count, how about padlocks with combinations? 

[Melissa in Australia]

Twin 2 can't count but Twin 1 can and his wonder skill to break codes and remember combinations is beyond my ability to remember them 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Melissa in Australia

[Ottakee]

4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Twin 2 can't count but Twin 1 can and his wonder skill to break codes and remember combinations is beyond my ability to remember them 

These kiddos are amazing.   

[Melissa in Australia]

29 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

These kiddos are amazing.   

They are. 

It is a shame that their super skills are things like password memorising, code breaking and lightfingeredness. 

[Ottakee]

5 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

They are. 

It is a shame that their super skills are things like password memorising, code breaking and lightfingeredness. 

Or hacking computers which one is my students can do 

[Faith-manor]

I am so sorry Melissa. I think maybe your dh needs more down time from them. Could they go to their special needs program 5 days per week for the foreseeable future?

[Melissa in Australia]

So dh completely emptied twin 2 bedroom, everything out except furniture and twin 2 and dh went through every single thing and got out all the stolen things. Then dh took some items of twin 2 permanatly. Things like a radio etc. And explained to him how sad he felt about losing some of his things is how sad dad and mum felt when our things get stolen and broken.  It took them The whole day. Most of twin 2 things went back into his room just some key items removed. 

Twin 2 told me on the phone about how sad he feels, and how sad I must have felt when my things were taken and destroyed . I really hope he understands and it helps him to stop stealing. We have never removed his possessions before because of his background as a foster child and not having possessions etc. We couldn't think of any other way to try to get him To understand. Dh said it was breaking his  heart to take some of twin 2 things.

 

Dh is going to do twin 1 room today. Funnily enough twin 1 asked dh to do his room. Said it needs to be cleaned and sorted before mum comes home. 

[Melissa in Australia]

Forgot to add twin 2 is very eager to help go through twin 1 room and assist today 🙄🙄

[Wishes]

32 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

So dh completely emptied twin 2 bedroom, everything out except furniture and twin 2 and dh went through every single thing and got out all the stolen things. Then dh took some items of twin 2 permanatly. Things like a radio etc. And explained to him how sad he felt about losing some of his things is how sad dad and mum felt when our things get stolen and broken.  It took them The whole day. Most of twin 2 things went back into his room just some key items removed. 

Twin 2 told me on the phone about how sad he feels, and how sad I must have felt when my things were taken and destroyed . I really hope he understands and it helps him to stop stealing. We have never removed his possessions before because of his background as a foster child and not having possessions etc. We couldn't think of any other way to try to get him To understand. Dh said it was breaking his  heart to take some of twin 2 things.

 

Dh is going to do twin 1 room today. Funnily enough twin 1 asked dh to do his room. Said it needs to be cleaned and sorted before mum comes home. 

Even if this isn’t permanently effective, I think this was a good choice. Twin 2 sees that your husband took the things with sadness and regrets, not vengeance. He expressed his sadness and at least spoke with empathy for you sadness. ((Hugs))

[Ottakee]

Not sure if it would work with your twins or not but my friend with adopted kiddos with trauma and the urge to steal used to leave tiny bite size candy bars around the house in “hidden” places.    Just a few a day.   It seems so counter intuitive but it cut back the stealing a great deal.  
 

[Halftime Hope]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:56 AM, Melissa in Australia said:

They are. 

It is a shame that their super skills are things like password memorising, code breaking and lightfingeredness. 

Melissa, one of your superpowers -- and probably a defense mechanism -- is black humor.  I wish I knew you in person and could lend a hand.

[Halftime Hope]

21 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

So dh completely emptied twin 2 bedroom, everything out except furniture and twin 2 and dh went through every single thing and got out all the stolen things. Then dh took some items of twin 2 permanatly. Things like a radio etc. And explained to him how sad he felt about losing some of his things is how sad dad and mum felt when our things get stolen and broken.  It took them The whole day. Most of twin 2 things went back into his room just some key items removed. 

Twin 2 told me on the phone about how sad he feels, and how sad I must have felt when my things were taken and destroyed . I really hope he understands and it helps him to stop stealing. We have never removed his possessions before because of his background as a foster child and not having possessions etc. We couldn't think of any other way to try to get him To understand. Dh said it was breaking his  heart to take some of twin 2 things.

 

Dh is going to do twin 1 room today. Funnily enough twin 1 asked dh to do his room. Said it needs to be cleaned and sorted before mum comes home. 

You all are such wonderful parents.  {{Melissa and dh}}

[mom31257]

I know this is so much to be feeling and dealing with from a distance! It sounds like your dh is doing a great job and heading in the right direction with it all. I'm really sorry so much has happened and there is much fallout from it! 

[Melissa in Australia]

Ah, well that didn't work 

The ransacking and stealing continues. 

[Ottakee]

11 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Ah, well that didn't work 

The ransacking and stealing continues. 

Stress will increase this behavior sadly.

[Melissa in Australia]

They have cased out the neighbour's shed.  We wouldn't even be able to tell if they steal stuff from there. 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Melissa in Australia

[Quarter Note]

Just hugs.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Quarter Note
clarification

[prairiewindmomma]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:00 PM, Ottakee said:

Not sure if it would work with your twins or not but my friend with adopted kiddos with trauma and the urge to steal used to leave tiny bite size candy bars around the house in “hidden” places.    Just a few a day.   It seems so counter intuitive but it cut back the stealing a great deal.  
 

I’ve seen another version of this…glass stones (the inexpensive decorative kind) scattered about. It filled the behavioral need for the kids in a socially acceptable way.

I totally agree you’ll likely to continue to see an uptick during stressful times. Brains can be wonderful and horrible things at the same time—it’s wild how they can respond to stress in maladaptive ways.

[Melissa in Australia]

9 hours ago, Quarter Note said:

Melissa, I just want you to know that you are not alone.  You can't lock up everything - I know.  No advice.  Just hugs.  Sometimes I think the only thing to do is to wait it out for the kids to mature.  But it's just really, really hard.  Hang in there.

When you mean mature  are you meaning become adult and move into supported living? 

They aren't going to grow out of their lack of impulse control or grow executive function sadly. We were just so hoping that we would have been more of an influence on them and were I guess hoping we could have helped them more. I don't know what else we could have done but we have failed. Maybe it was an impossable task. 

 

[Faith-manor]

7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

When you mean mature  are you meaning become adult and move into supported living? 

They aren't going to grow out of their lack of impulse control or grow executive function sadly. We were just so hoping that we would have been more of an influence on them and were I guess hoping we could have helped them more. I don't know what else we could have done but we have failed. Maybe it was an impossable task. 

 

You didn't fail. Don't even think that way. Their bios failed, miserably, utterly failed. They were traumatized by this failure some folks never ever get over the trauma no matter what others do to try to help them. This is NOT on you.

Could they go to the special school 5 days a week instead of just 3 while you are recovering? It would give your dh more relief.

[prairiewindmomma]

You in no way failed them. You have provided loving family based care and have consistently advocated for them to get services and support. 
 

One of my more haunting images from professional life was a set of side by side images. One was a neurotypical brain MRI. The other was a brain MRI slice of a child born drug addicted and affected by trauma. The amount of grey and white matter differences between the brains was so very different—they looked structurally different. I think too often we think behavior is just due to environment and personal agency. It’s not. There are some biological roots to it. 
And, sometimes too often, we live with scars from those biological roots that never fully heal (and in some severe cases don’t heal much at all). 

Hugs to you and yours. You did not fail. You and Dh have done your part.

[Hannah]

I have read your story on these boards from day 1 that you took the twins in Melissa. You have gone above and beyond in advocating and caring for them with so much acceptance and love. I can understand that you had hope that the right care and love could fix what their bio's had broken, but it is in no way a failure on your part that such a miracle has not happened. Plase give yourself credit for the amazing care that you have given and compare the progress to the alternatives.

[Quarter Note]

10 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

When you mean mature  are you meaning become adult and move into supported living? 

They aren't going to grow out of their lack of impulse control or grow executive function sadly. We were just so hoping that we would have been more of an influence on them and were I guess hoping we could have helped them more. I don't know what else we could have done but we have failed. Maybe it was an impossable task. 

 

(Please don't quote this because I'd like to delete the personal details later.)

Hi Melissa.  By "mature" I didn't mean anything specific at all, and I hope that you didn't read it as condemnation in any way, because I only meant support.  

(Personal details removed.)

Please know that you are not alone.  That was the only thing that I meant by my post.  

Just many, many hugs to you. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Quarter Note

[Harriet Vane]

33 minutes ago, Hannah said:

I have read your story on these boards from day 1 that you took the twins in Melissa. You have gone above and beyond in advocating and caring for them with so much acceptance and love. I can understand that you had hope that the right care and love could fix what their bio's had broken, but it is in no way a failure on your part that such a miracle has not happened. Plase give yourself credit for the amazing care that you have given and compare the progress to the alternatives.

Yes to all of this, from me as well.

[ScoutTN]

34 minutes ago, Hannah said:

I have read your story on these boards from day 1 that you took the twins in Melissa. You have gone above and beyond in advocating and caring for them with so much acceptance and love. I can understand that you had hope that the right care and love could fix what their bio's had broken, but it is in no way a failure on your part that such a miracle has not happened. Plase give yourself credit for the amazing care that you have given and compare the progress to the alternatives.

This!