Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Twin two aged 12 and full knowing better despite having ID, sometime in the last 24 hours took over $300 of science kits. The next 2 years of science curriculum from the shelf he knew he wasn't to touch. And has been able to refrain from touching for the last several years and pulled them all to pieces, destroying all components, scattering them all round his room. He didn't actually do a single experiment, just destroyed. I am so increadably cross. Wish I was able to go push several wheel burrows or dig a hole or something to get rid of all the crossness instead of being stuck in a hospital bed fuming 50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 The shelf is in lounge room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 That's really frustrating. Do you think maybe it's a way of expressing his anxiety/worry about you? A really unhelpful way, of course. It must be so hard not being able to be at home. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 It is just because dh can't provide 24 hour supervision and twins are taking full advantage of it. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I'm so sorry. I would be cross too. All kids do foolish things, but they are not usually so expensive. Hugs to you. It's probably best for your health and well being if you can make a conscious decision to let it go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Just now, Melissa in Australia said: It is just because dh can't provide 24 hour supervision and twins are taking full advantage of it. I so wish you had access to better/more services for them. No one can provide 24/7 eyes on supervision to 12 year olds 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I would be cross too. Is there a pillow you can beat up? I am so sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, MercyA said: I'm so sorry. I would be cross too. All kids do foolish things, but they are not usually so expensive. Hugs to you. It's probably best for your health and well being if you can make a conscious decision to let it go. He stole $200 2 weeks ago to buy a broken toy from a kid at school. (he can't count so had no idea of the amount of money) He destroyed multiple tools in the shed in the last week Ruined keepsakes that my older children made 3 days ago, the few I had hide away and really valued for the memories It is completely out of control at home. Everything being ransacked. 36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Is there emergency respite you can get? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said: ruined keepsakes Oh, gosh. I'm so very sorry. That is so heartbreaking. I remember a similarly sad loss that I still grieve. Oh, Melissa...just sending a hug. Is there any way for your family to get anyone from the community to come help? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 We can't even get family to help Unless it is an absolute emergancy 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) That's so hard on all of you! He was able to resist them with the added help of adults keeping an eye on him, but without that help, he can't do the same things. And now it's just gone: your great and expensive sciencey future, flushed. It's awful. I don't know if advice is in order, or if I'm just being 'that friend' here -- but it's the second time I've had this thought. Maybe it helps. I think it might be time to have a few friends or family (if possible) come and do a thorough "teen-proofing" on your home. If I'm recalling correctly, your children, based on their condition, are not expected to significantly improve their impulse control in the near future, right? They are special needs, and these are the needs that they have. In which case, the factors add up in my mind that they really need a "Prepared Environment" (as it would be put in Montessori philosophy). These kids live rurally, somewhere with various indoor and outdoor obligations for the adults, with a single parent (for now), and at least for a while after that (possibly a long while) a single capable parent working together with a disabled parent -- and they only go to school for school-hours on school days. Those are the 'factors' I mean. The "Prepared Environment" I mean is that some parts of their home should be spaces where they don't need to rely on their own impulse control (or external supervision) in order to be personally safe, and for important things not to be damaged. To me, that suggests, at least, that certain off-limits spaces (rooms? cabinets?) should be locked with keys, and that the entry/exit points should be alarmed. This relaxes the kids emotionally, and relaxes the intensity of their need for direct supervision on the parents' side. It's a normal progression for taking care of kids with these factors for the next 10+ years. It's a worthwhile investment. It will help stop all of this from feeling like misbehaviour, like risk, like unsafety and insecurity of your own belongings and finances... and changes it into making a home that is suitable for the people who are actually living in it. It requires facing 'needs' head-on as *needs* not as things that you-all can do without if you just try hard and keep a good attitude. My catch phrase is "Solve the problem, not the people." -- because people can't be 'solved', but problems can. If friends aren't possible to make this project more attainable, consider hiring a handyman for a few hours to assist your husband in assessing the spaces and installing locks. Edited September 21, 2023 by bolt. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 Dh and I have already decided we need locks.. He just hasn't had time to go buy them. We will have to lock every single door apart from the bathroom and their bedrooms. The kitchen and lounge room are open plan. We already have locked cupboards. They found the key a few weeks ago. We already have locked medical safe, locked cash box for matches, etc. It is a constant battle hiding keys So where to put the keys is the next big problem 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 It sounds like keeping keys on bodies is the right step at this point. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, bolt. said: It sounds like keeping keys on bodies is the right step at this point. Yup. I’d be putting them on an under clothing travel belt so they aren’t even aware Dh is wearing them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I'm trying to think outside the box here... Can your husband lock the children in the back seat of your vehicle? I mean VERY briefly, while he completes the outdoor chores as quickly as humanly possible -- just for their own safety for those few minutes of necessary undersupervision? (Even I don't quite know what I think of that idea... it's borderline, for sure.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 They make locking lockboxes for workplace environments that are sturdy and can be mounted on the wall. Then maybe your DH could wear just the lockbox key. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Would combination locks be an option? Would they be capable of opening a combination lock? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 Twin 1 has this uncanny ability to remember and crack the most complex code 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Do you still have involvement with the people who placed the twins with you initially? Your circumstances have changed and I wonder if they can provide some extra support either in terms of respite care so your DH can set things up better at home or paid help to get things done? I know they’re pretty hopeless in general but surely given the circumstances something should be able to be provided. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longtime Lurker Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, bolt. said: That's so hard on all of you! He was able to resist them with the added help of adults keeping an eye on him, but without that help, he can't do the same things. And now it's just gone: your great and expensive sciencey future, flushed. It's awful. I don't know if advice is in order, or if I'm just being 'that friend' here -- but it's the second time I've had this thought. Maybe it helps. I think it might be time to have a few friends or family (if possible) come and do a thorough "teen-proofing" on your home. If I'm recalling correctly, your children, based on their condition, are not expected to significantly improve their impulse control in the near future, right? They are special needs, and these are the needs that they have. In which case, the factors add up in my mind that they really need a "Prepared Environment" (as it would be put in Montessori philosophy). These kids live rurally, somewhere with various indoor and outdoor obligations for the adults, with a single parent (for now), and at least for a while after that (possibly a long while) a single capable parent working together with a disabled parent -- and they only go to school for school-hours on school days. Those are the 'factors' I mean. The "Prepared Environment" I mean is that some parts of their home should be spaces where they don't need to rely on their own impulse control (or external supervision) in order to be personally safe, and for important things not to be damaged. To me, that suggests, at least, that certain off-limits spaces (rooms? cabinets?) should be locked with keys, and that the entry/exit points should be alarmed. This relaxes the kids emotionally, and relaxes the intensity of their need for direct supervision on the parents' side. It's a normal progression for taking care of kids with these factors for the next 10+ years. It's a worthwhile investment. It will help stop all of this from feeling like misbehaviour, like risk, like unsafety and insecurity of your own belongings and finances... and changes it into making a home that is suitable for the people who are actually living in it. It requires facing 'needs' head-on as *needs* not as things that you-all can do without if you just try hard and keep a good attitude. My catch phrase is "Solve the problem, not the people." -- because people can't be 'solved', but problems can. If friends aren't possible to make this project more attainable, consider hiring a handyman for a few hours to assist your husband in assessing the spaces and installing locks. Yes, this. We have done this and it removes a lot of stress and protects some special items. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said: Dh and I have already decided we need locks.. He just hasn't had time to go buy them. We will have to lock every single door apart from the bathroom and their bedrooms. The kitchen and lounge room are open plan. We already have locked cupboards. They found the key a few weeks ago. We already have locked medical safe, locked cash box for matches, etc. It is a constant battle hiding keys So where to put the keys is the next big problem When we have foster kids in our home, the keys live on my body in my pocket. I literally sleep with them as well. (I know it's not easy, Melissa. Warm hugs for you and your dh.) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 I am so sorry, Melissa. I wish all of us here were there to help you!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: It is just because dh can't provide 24 hour supervision and twins are taking full advantage of it. Is he able to maybe have them do lots of physical labor so they are too exhausted to make trouble? Hugs, I can’t even fathom the stress your family is experiencing. I hope things get better very soon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 Dh is in his 60s, he tires faster than active 12 year olds. He takes them for long walks and fishing every single day, for hours every day. They cannot be assigned a task and be expected to complete it without someone physically standing there supervising. They will Just make the appearance of doing the task, wait until adult thinks they are doing it and gets detracted then nick off to do some more stealing /ransacking/casing out area for later. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: Dh and I have already decided we need locks.. He just hasn't had time to go buy them. We will have to lock every single door apart from the bathroom and their bedrooms. The kitchen and lounge room are open plan. We already have locked cupboards. They found the key a few weeks ago. We already have locked medical safe, locked cash box for matches, etc. It is a constant battle hiding keys So where to put the keys is the next big problem If the can't count, how about padlocks with combinations? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) Twin 2 can't count but Twin 1 can and his wonder skill to break codes and remember combinations is beyond my ability to remember them Edited September 22, 2023 by Melissa in Australia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: Twin 2 can't count but Twin 1 can and his wonder skill to break codes and remember combinations is beyond my ability to remember them These kiddos are amazing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, Ottakee said: These kiddos are amazing. They are. It is a shame that their super skills are things like password memorising, code breaking and lightfingeredness. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: They are. It is a shame that their super skills are things like password memorising, code breaking and lightfingeredness. Or hacking computers which one is my students can do 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith-manor Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 I am so sorry Melissa. I think maybe your dh needs more down time from them. Could they go to their special needs program 5 days per week for the foreseeable future? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 So dh completely emptied twin 2 bedroom, everything out except furniture and twin 2 and dh went through every single thing and got out all the stolen things. Then dh took some items of twin 2 permanatly. Things like a radio etc. And explained to him how sad he felt about losing some of his things is how sad dad and mum felt when our things get stolen and broken. It took them The whole day. Most of twin 2 things went back into his room just some key items removed. Twin 2 told me on the phone about how sad he feels, and how sad I must have felt when my things were taken and destroyed . I really hope he understands and it helps him to stop stealing. We have never removed his possessions before because of his background as a foster child and not having possessions etc. We couldn't think of any other way to try to get him To understand. Dh said it was breaking his heart to take some of twin 2 things. Dh is going to do twin 1 room today. Funnily enough twin 1 asked dh to do his room. Said it needs to be cleaned and sorted before mum comes home. 5 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 Forgot to add twin 2 is very eager to help go through twin 1 room and assist today 🙄🙄 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wishes Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 32 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said: So dh completely emptied twin 2 bedroom, everything out except furniture and twin 2 and dh went through every single thing and got out all the stolen things. Then dh took some items of twin 2 permanatly. Things like a radio etc. And explained to him how sad he felt about losing some of his things is how sad dad and mum felt when our things get stolen and broken. It took them The whole day. Most of twin 2 things went back into his room just some key items removed. Twin 2 told me on the phone about how sad he feels, and how sad I must have felt when my things were taken and destroyed . I really hope he understands and it helps him to stop stealing. We have never removed his possessions before because of his background as a foster child and not having possessions etc. We couldn't think of any other way to try to get him To understand. Dh said it was breaking his heart to take some of twin 2 things. Dh is going to do twin 1 room today. Funnily enough twin 1 asked dh to do his room. Said it needs to be cleaned and sorted before mum comes home. Even if this isn’t permanently effective, I think this was a good choice. Twin 2 sees that your husband took the things with sadness and regrets, not vengeance. He expressed his sadness and at least spoke with empathy for you sadness. ((Hugs)) 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Not sure if it would work with your twins or not but my friend with adopted kiddos with trauma and the urge to steal used to leave tiny bite size candy bars around the house in “hidden” places. Just a few a day. It seems so counter intuitive but it cut back the stealing a great deal. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 On 9/22/2023 at 5:56 AM, Melissa in Australia said: They are. It is a shame that their super skills are things like password memorising, code breaking and lightfingeredness. Melissa, one of your superpowers -- and probably a defense mechanism -- is black humor. I wish I knew you in person and could lend a hand. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 21 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: So dh completely emptied twin 2 bedroom, everything out except furniture and twin 2 and dh went through every single thing and got out all the stolen things. Then dh took some items of twin 2 permanatly. Things like a radio etc. And explained to him how sad he felt about losing some of his things is how sad dad and mum felt when our things get stolen and broken. It took them The whole day. Most of twin 2 things went back into his room just some key items removed. Twin 2 told me on the phone about how sad he feels, and how sad I must have felt when my things were taken and destroyed . I really hope he understands and it helps him to stop stealing. We have never removed his possessions before because of his background as a foster child and not having possessions etc. We couldn't think of any other way to try to get him To understand. Dh said it was breaking his heart to take some of twin 2 things. Dh is going to do twin 1 room today. Funnily enough twin 1 asked dh to do his room. Said it needs to be cleaned and sorted before mum comes home. You all are such wonderful parents. {{Melissa and dh}} 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 I know this is so much to be feeling and dealing with from a distance! It sounds like your dh is doing a great job and heading in the right direction with it all. I'm really sorry so much has happened and there is much fallout from it! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 26, 2023 Author Share Posted September 26, 2023 Ah, well that didn't work The ransacking and stealing continues. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said: Ah, well that didn't work The ransacking and stealing continues. Stress will increase this behavior sadly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 26, 2023 Author Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) They have cased out the neighbour's shed. We wouldn't even be able to tell if they steal stuff from there. Edited September 26, 2023 by Melissa in Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarter Note Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) Just hugs. Edited September 27, 2023 by Quarter Note clarification 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 On 9/22/2023 at 7:00 PM, Ottakee said: Not sure if it would work with your twins or not but my friend with adopted kiddos with trauma and the urge to steal used to leave tiny bite size candy bars around the house in “hidden” places. Just a few a day. It seems so counter intuitive but it cut back the stealing a great deal. I’ve seen another version of this…glass stones (the inexpensive decorative kind) scattered about. It filled the behavioral need for the kids in a socially acceptable way. I totally agree you’ll likely to continue to see an uptick during stressful times. Brains can be wonderful and horrible things at the same time—it’s wild how they can respond to stress in maladaptive ways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 27, 2023 Author Share Posted September 27, 2023 9 hours ago, Quarter Note said: Melissa, I just want you to know that you are not alone. You can't lock up everything - I know. No advice. Just hugs. Sometimes I think the only thing to do is to wait it out for the kids to mature. But it's just really, really hard. Hang in there. When you mean mature are you meaning become adult and move into supported living? They aren't going to grow out of their lack of impulse control or grow executive function sadly. We were just so hoping that we would have been more of an influence on them and were I guess hoping we could have helped them more. I don't know what else we could have done but we have failed. Maybe it was an impossable task. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith-manor Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: When you mean mature are you meaning become adult and move into supported living? They aren't going to grow out of their lack of impulse control or grow executive function sadly. We were just so hoping that we would have been more of an influence on them and were I guess hoping we could have helped them more. I don't know what else we could have done but we have failed. Maybe it was an impossable task. You didn't fail. Don't even think that way. Their bios failed, miserably, utterly failed. They were traumatized by this failure some folks never ever get over the trauma no matter what others do to try to help them. This is NOT on you. Could they go to the special school 5 days a week instead of just 3 while you are recovering? It would give your dh more relief. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 You in no way failed them. You have provided loving family based care and have consistently advocated for them to get services and support. One of my more haunting images from professional life was a set of side by side images. One was a neurotypical brain MRI. The other was a brain MRI slice of a child born drug addicted and affected by trauma. The amount of grey and white matter differences between the brains was so very different—they looked structurally different. I think too often we think behavior is just due to environment and personal agency. It’s not. There are some biological roots to it. And, sometimes too often, we live with scars from those biological roots that never fully heal (and in some severe cases don’t heal much at all). Hugs to you and yours. You did not fail. You and Dh have done your part. 12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 I have read your story on these boards from day 1 that you took the twins in Melissa. You have gone above and beyond in advocating and caring for them with so much acceptance and love. I can understand that you had hope that the right care and love could fix what their bio's had broken, but it is in no way a failure on your part that such a miracle has not happened. Plase give yourself credit for the amazing care that you have given and compare the progress to the alternatives. 16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarter Note Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: When you mean mature are you meaning become adult and move into supported living? They aren't going to grow out of their lack of impulse control or grow executive function sadly. We were just so hoping that we would have been more of an influence on them and were I guess hoping we could have helped them more. I don't know what else we could have done but we have failed. Maybe it was an impossable task. (Please don't quote this because I'd like to delete the personal details later.) Hi Melissa. By "mature" I didn't mean anything specific at all, and I hope that you didn't read it as condemnation in any way, because I only meant support. (Personal details removed.) Please know that you are not alone. That was the only thing that I meant by my post. Just many, many hugs to you. Edited September 27, 2023 by Quarter Note 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 33 minutes ago, Hannah said: I have read your story on these boards from day 1 that you took the twins in Melissa. You have gone above and beyond in advocating and caring for them with so much acceptance and love. I can understand that you had hope that the right care and love could fix what their bio's had broken, but it is in no way a failure on your part that such a miracle has not happened. Plase give yourself credit for the amazing care that you have given and compare the progress to the alternatives. Yes to all of this, from me as well. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 34 minutes ago, Hannah said: I have read your story on these boards from day 1 that you took the twins in Melissa. You have gone above and beyond in advocating and caring for them with so much acceptance and love. I can understand that you had hope that the right care and love could fix what their bio's had broken, but it is in no way a failure on your part that such a miracle has not happened. Plase give yourself credit for the amazing care that you have given and compare the progress to the alternatives. This! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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