How much do your just-graduated-from-college children make (esp in HCOL)?

[Melissa Louise]

3 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

If the pipeline exit is a Master's,  MD, or PhD, then people stopping with a Bachelor's I would consider the very definition of a break in the pipeline. Why aren't they taking the next steps?  Sure, may not be as lucrative as some other Healthcare fields, but better than sitting on a degree that has you working in a muffin shop. 

As someone sitting on not one but two degrees that have me working in the equivalent of a muffin shop (actually, that sounds more fun!) - 1. life and 2. debt

I was a mature age student, but I honestly don't imagine it's any different for lots of students - you get through your undergrad and something in life intervenes, or you look at the debt you already have, and then the debt you're going to have to incur, and you baulk.

 

 

[catz]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

We’ve also run into advisers who don’t know what they don’t know and advise poorly. My dd has friends who swallowed all the marketing hype of how marketable her liberal arts degree would be. The gal is now, after 4 years of college cleaning houses and nannying to pay her bills. 

This is an aside, but I also know tons of people who got a random UG degree from a LAC  that are doing just fine in corporate america living a middle class life in a job with benefits. 

I don't know why some kids can make thtis work and others cannot?  Connections?  School placement offices?  Culture of origin - if say both your parents were college educated and white collar?   Individual motivation and willingness to hustle?  Interpersonal skills?  Internships?  Leadership?  Just speculating, wish I knew.  I'm sure it varies.

I do know the state of employment and the economy and placement can stick with a new grad for many years to come.  

FWIW, my kid just graduated from a very large public university with 2 degrees in 4 years.  It was threading a needle for sure and as far as I know, he got excellent advising.  I saw him graduate - it happened lol!  I didn't track at all and I was happy not to be involved after homeschooling.  Advising is one of those things I think can be good or bad almost anywhere.

[Melissa Louise]

3 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Are advisors in the colleges doing enough to make people getting these degrees aware of the pipeline? I wonder if the people getting these degrees think a BA will be enough and are surprised to find out that its not.  

I wasn't surprised - my plan was always to continue through Masters - but life...

I do think universities (here at least) gloss over the - lack of market attractiveness - of undergrad psych - it's sold as a good all-round degree here. Which, frankly, is b/s,

 

[saraha]

9 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am still praying for our Aspie who is not launching.   Not even a little bit.   Sigh.   Right now he is mad at me for bringing any of it up.   Sigh.

Working at the library has been great. It is predictable, has a social element to it as he has no friends outside work, it is a slow pace so he doesn’t get overwhelmed and he loves books and movies. The only other job he had was his first one at Dairy Queen. It was a terrible fit, but the managers were nice and let him wash dishes and take out the trash until he got hired on at the library. It was way too fast paced for him and unpredictable.
   The apartment is all utilities included except internet and he lives in the same building as the managers office, so when he lost his key, she let him in. Every time his dishwasher does something he doesn’t understand, she comes up and shows him. She seems to have figured him out pretty quick and instead of calling maintenance every time he turns up, she comes up first to see if he just forgot and turned the switch off at the wall etc. the funniest to me fix she did was we had all been over there to swim and I cooked dinner. He has a microwave over the stove and I turned the light on to see the stove better.  I guess I forgot and left it on and he discovered it later. He could not figure out how to turn it off. So the next morning he stopped by the maintenance office and asked her about it and she came up and showed him how to turn it off. He had lived there for over a year and didn’t know there was even a light under there let alone how to turn it off! 😆 In his defense though, we haven’t had a microwave in like 10 years and it was not an over the stove kind, just a simple one that sat on the counter.

For a year after he graduated in 2020, he couldn’t find a job, so he decided to use that time while looking to get ready to live on his own. I taught him how to make his five favorite meals and he makes those every week and supplements with door dash. He’s figured out Uber. He orders groceries delivered, or if he is coming home for a day or weekend, I take him shopping on the way back. And anything else, he coordinates with me picking him up for whatever.

would it help to talk to other aspies that launched? Ds was 21 when he was ready and we scaffolded a lot that first year. He came home and stayed here a lot at first too. Im sure he’d be happy to message

Edited June 28, 2023 by saraha

[Sneezyone]

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I do have quite a bit of experience in being non mainstream my entire life.  I know that is not easy.

STAHHHP. JWs are quirky, not irreligious heathens by AR standards, not outsiders. Scarlett, you’re not this naive.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Shelydon]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Yeah, no. Not for multimillion dollar enterprises. No. That is not common. If a sexual assault happened or other complaint about working conditions were filed, that company would be toast…for good reason. They need better advisors.

I worked for two different multi-million dollar enterprises and both did shared hotel rooms (same gender). My husband currently works for a multi -million-dollar enterprise with national offices and a global presence, and they also do shared rooms at conferences. So it may not be common in your experience, but it's extremely prevalent in mine. And definitely not a big deal. 

[Sneezyone]

48 minutes ago, Shelydon said:

I worked for two different multi-million dollar enterprises and both did shared hotel rooms (same gender). My husband currently works for a multi -million-dollar enterprise with national offices and a global presence, and they also do shared rooms at conferences. So it may not be common in your experience, but it's extremely prevalent in mine. And definitely not a big deal. 

It is DEFINITELY a big deal and a lawsuit waiting to happen. There’s a reason Walmart stopped the practice. Whether or not people are willing to accept crappy working conditions in ‘right to be fired for any reason’ states, actions have consequences, namely skilled worker flight.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[ArteHaus]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Nah, I know that much of the affluence is tied to those families, not just the Waltons but also the Hunts and Tyson? 🤦🏽‍♀️ (i.e. has the tacit/explicit approval of). I can’t go into details. I got an up close and personal glimpse, almost by accident.

My disgust is related to the unwillingness to invest in the state as a whole (and the majority of voters, not residents, are content to permit this so long as they benefit).

You could fit the brainpower of half the state legislature in a thimble with room to spare.

I give them credit for forcing suppliers to come to them/relocate to NWA. It helped the schools and diversified the region immeasurably. Still, don’t get it twisted. Everyone knows who’s running things.

I can see your point, and yes, those families have influence. I just know from personal relationships, neighbors, etc., that a lot of the affluence was/is injected into the area by retirees from other parts of the country. Literally, everyone in our “neighborhood” (it’s more of an area not a subdivision) is retired, and most of them are from California. It has been that way since the 90’s. I also think that the area is  very accommodating to folks who are entrepreneurial. There is plenty of opportunity. However, the best commercial  real estate (Pinnacle Hills) is in the hands of those families (the Boozemans, too), so I will concur with you there. Nevertheless, every major city, in every state is family owned, that is how America rolls. Most of those are slave holding families from the past, so…🤦‍♀️…it is what it is.

I think that there are so many issues in every state. AR just passed the LEARNS Act which is awesome, and what I would consider an investment into the “state”, contrary to what Cecil Bledsoe did a decade ago by choosing not to build schools, but to build more prisons. Ouch. However, politics are wishy-washy everywhere and subject to change. 

And yes Southern AR is frightful and impoverished, but there is no real “industry” there. You can either head into Memphis or down into the Delta from there, and there is nothing. I don’t know how folks make it, but I think that every state does the same thing. We studied Washington State heavily, and it seems the Southern half of the state is an impoverished wasteland (we were looking to buy land), but up top everything was groovy (or so it seemed).

Interesting to hear another perspective on the area though:)

 

 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

STAHHHP. JWs are quirky, not irreligious heathens by AR standards, not outsiders. Scarlett, you’re not this naive.

Hmmmmm. I don’t think I have ever been called quirky! I like it. 
 

As part of our quirkiness we don’t sing the National anthem  or salute the flag. How do you think that plays out with a red neck AR crowd? Scary. I can tell you that. 
 

I mean YOU might like us and all but not everyone does. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

It’s not a ‘current mindset’. It was anachronistic when it was in place (and not discussed outside the region) and STILL is. These were 30-60yo people with families and households to oversee, not summer campers.

Agree I was about 30. 
Shrug. I was not that big of a deal. 

[Sneezyone]

43 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Hmmmmm. I don’t think I have ever been called quirky! I like it. 
 

As part of our quirkiness we don’t sing the National anthem  or salute the flag. How do you think that plays out with a red neck AR crowd? Scary. I can tell you that. 
 

I mean YOU might like us and all but not everyone does. 

I know how it plays out because I don’t sing the national anthem or salute the flag either. Try doing that while black. We moved there from CA too.

IJS, it’s not hospitable for most people. For those recruits who share ideological and ethnographic commonality, it’s great. It may well become the next, great ethnostate.

The only under 30s in DHs/my family that still live there are disabled and/or family caregivers. My high school’s honor grads are largely gone too. No one attends reunions. Imagine my surprise running into a fellow Arkansan from my HS in CA! That happened. Folks voted with their feet. All of DHs sibs and nephews. If you’re good with the place so be it but please know it’s not universally welcome or inclusive and definitely not thriving. It is naturally beautiful and cheap tho.

I’m not making this up. https://www.axios.com/local/nw-arkansas/2022/09/29/arkansas-college-education-jobs-leave

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Carrie12345]

5 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

If the pipeline exit is a Master's,  MD, or PhD, then people stopping with a Bachelor's I would consider the very definition of a break in the pipeline. Why aren't they taking the next steps?  Sure, may not be as lucrative as some other Healthcare fields, but better than sitting on a degree that has you working in a muffin shop. 

 

5 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Are advisors in the colleges doing enough to make people getting these degrees aware of the pipeline? I wonder if the people getting these degrees think a BA will be enough and are surprised to find out that its not.  

In the field of social work, you can get jobs in social work with a BA/BSW or even AA. (Or high school plus experience .) But you’ll make more in a muffin shop without any on-call overnights, less danger, and probably fewer emotional scars.   
I think a year of interning scares many off, and there’s high turnover after that. At 18-ish, kids think they know what they can handle. Re-evaluating at 22-ish makes sense in a really hard field.

Plus, life.  
My friend finished her PsyD as a mom of 2. That’s not typical. She’s my hero. 

[Heartstrings]

43 minutes ago, ArteHaus said:

I can see your point, and yes, those families have influence. I just know from personal relationships, neighbors, etc., that a lot of the affluence was/is injected into the area by retirees from other parts of the country. Literally, everyone in our “neighborhood” (it’s more of an area not a subdivision) is retired, and most of them are from California. It has been that way since the 90’s. I also think that the area is  very accommodating to folks who are entrepreneurial. There is plenty of opportunity. However, the best commercial  real estate (Pinnacle Hills) is in the hands of those families (the Boozemans, too), so I will concur with you there. Nevertheless, every major city, in every state is family owned, that is how America rolls. Most of those are slave holding families from the past, so…🤦‍♀️…it is what it is.

I think that there are so many issues in every state. AR just passed the LEARNS Act which is awesome, and what I would consider an investment into the “state”, contrary to what Cecil Bledsoe did a decade ago by choosing not to build schools, but to build more prisons. Ouch. However, politics are wishy-washy everywhere and subject to change. 

And yes Southern AR is frightful and impoverished, but there is no real “industry” there. You can either head into Memphis or down into the Delta from there, and there is nothing. I don’t know how folks make it, but I think that every state does the same thing. We studied Washington State heavily, and it seems the Southern half of the state is an impoverished wasteland (we were looking to buy land), but up top everything was groovy (or so it seemed).

Interesting to hear another perspective on the area though:)

 

 

Just to add to what has become an infomercial for NWA, there is a large secular homeschool presence in the area. 

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

As someone sitting on not one but two degrees that have me working in the equivalent of a muffin shop (actually, that sounds more fun!) - 1. life and 2. debt

I was a mature age student, but I honestly don't imagine it's any different for lots of students - you get through your undergrad and something in life intervenes, or you look at the debt you already have, and then the debt you're going to have to incur, and you baulk.

I think you are right. So, if we need more mental health workers and yet continuing on to finish has a negative cost-benefit enough that people partway done choose muffins (or pivot to go in an entirely different direction), that's a big part of the breakdown in the pipeline.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Matryoshka

[Scarlett]

54 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I know how it plays out because I don’t sing the national anthem or salute the flag either. Try doing that while black. We moved there from CA too.

IJS, it’s not hospitable for most people. For those recruits who share ideological and ethnographic commonality, it’s great. It may well become the next, great ethnostate.

The only under 30s in DHs/my family that still live there are disabled and/or family caregivers. My high school’s honor grads are largely gone too. No one attends reunions. Imagine my surprise running into a fellow Arkansan from my HS in CA! That happened. Folks voted with their feet. All of DHs sibs and nephews. If you’re good with the place so be it but please know it’s not universally welcome or inclusive and definitely not thriving. It is naturally beautiful and cheap tho.

I’m not making this up. https://www.axios.com/local/nw-arkansas/2022/09/29/arkansas-college-education-jobs-leave

Ok I think I understand now. The smart people who feel no hospitality are fleeing the state. 
 

I did leave  but I miss AR constantly. Also  I I know plenty of smart people still there.  So I don’t know what makes the difference really between who leaves and who stays. 
 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Scarlett

[TechWife]

7 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

If the pipeline exit is a Master's,  MD, or PhD, then people stopping with a Bachelor's I would consider the very definition of a break in the pipeline. Why aren't they taking the next steps?  Sure, may not be as lucrative as some other Healthcare fields, but better than sitting on a degree that has you working in a muffin shop. 

It’s not a break, it’s a faucet. The system is functioning as it should. If people don’t want to work in mental health, they shouldn’t - they should exit the MH system and pursue other opportunities.

I think one compelling reason for some  is that psychology is interesting to study, but when they learn more about it, they can’t imagine working in the field - they just aren’t suited for it. I do wonder what type of exposure undergrads get to the various careers open to them if they pursue an advanced degree. In addition to work as a therapist, there are many more career paths for a licensed psychologist - corporate wellness, the judicial system, child & family services, school counseling, career counseling, neurological testing, developmental specialist, curriculum designer and mediator are some of the areas that I’m thinking of off the top of my head.

Edited June 29, 2023 by TechWife

[Lecka]

I am living in a state that borders Arkansas….. and is similar.

I like it here, but at least one of my kids already does not want to stay for reasons that are on the political side.  He also does not like the weather.  
 

Ironically he is personally opposed to abortion but thinks it should be legal.  
 

What has really gotten him is masking or anti-masking, we live in an area that had some strong anti-masking and it really turned him off right when we moved here.  He is not forgetting it.  
 

I don’t know what will end up happening with him but it is his thought process right now.  

[Lecka]

My niece who is…. I’m not sure lol was a psychology major and could not do any in-person internships (?) because of Covid.  
 

She was supposed to have a minimum of 3 internships (?) over her Junior and Senior year, and instead they had her do some over-the-phone thing that counted, but she didn’t get the real experience she should have gotten.  That is how she was supposed to learn about areas of interest.  
 

She has ended up doing a masters program that has multiple internships (?) included so she can try some different job sites.  
 

Maybe a different name than internships.

 

She graduated college in Winter 2022 I think.  
 

There really were tons of places not allowing in-person stuff during her prime years.  I don’t think that’s her fault.  She might be a similar age to the young man in the OP.  
 

It’s hard to know how much is really Covid, I blame Covid for a lot that realistically doesn’t have to do with Covid.  
 

 

[Melissa Louise]

Internships are tricky, too, when they're not paid. Lots of people can't afford to do unpaid internships.

I supported dd1 through all her unpaid nursing placements, which was another reason I couldn't fund my own. 

 

[Heartstrings]

47 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Internships are tricky, too, when they're not paid. Lots of people can't afford to do unpaid internships.

I supported dd1 through all her unpaid nursing placements, which was another reason I couldn't fund my own. 

 

I'm worried about internships for my son.  I didn't need internships and my husband was currently working in his field while getting his degree so neither of us has experience.  I'm guessing my son will need them, but he needs to work, too.  

Edited June 29, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Lecka]

There is a way they can be counted for course credit and paid for my student loans?  Or something like that?  I don’t really know.  It is a way some people finance their living expenses I think.  I’m not sure. 

[Grace Hopper]

9 hours ago, Shelydon said:

Yep. When traveling for the company as a young adult, I always roomed with another person. Two beds of course. Normal and common, even now. 

 

5 hours ago, Shelydon said:

I worked for two different multi-million dollar enterprises and both did shared hotel rooms (same gender). My husband currently works for a multi -million-dollar enterprise with national offices and a global presence, and they also do shared rooms at conferences. So it may not be common in your experience, but it's extremely prevalent in mine. And definitely not a big deal. 

I have to jump in here and chip in that I find this rather shocking. I don’t doubt what you are saying, because it is your experience. And maybe you don’t feel it’s a big deal because you don’t know of anyone who’s encountered an issue with it. But it is a time bomb. I don’t know why any company, small or Fortune 500, would open themselves up to potential liability issues due to such a policy. 

5 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

It is DEFINITELY a big deal and a lawsuit waiting to happen. There’s a reason Walmart stopped the practice. Whether or not people are willing to accept crappy working conditions in ‘right to be fired for any reason’ states, actions have consequences, namely skilled worker flight.

Agreed. 
 

Personally, if I am accepting a job that requires overnight travel, it would only be with the caveat of a private room and further I would have to have choices about level of service - as in, my per diem would need to cover more than a cheap motel on the edge of town. I would want to feel safe, too. 

[Shoeless]

I worked for a company that asked the current staff if they'd be willing to have a new hire live with them for a month while the new hire apartment-hunted.  

I thought that was way beyond the pale. Neat trick, though, convincing your staff to handle part of the relocation negotiation for you for free!   

[KSera]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

As part of our quirkiness we don’t sing the National anthem  or salute the flag. How do you think that plays out with a red neck AR crowd? Scary. I can tell you that. 
 

I mean YOU might like us and all but not everyone does. 

Being “quirky” and standing out is not the same experience as literally not having the same rights as everyone else. You might not be willing to live somewhere where laws were being made specifically against people of your religion. 

[TechWife]

19 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

 

I have to jump in here and chip in that I find this rather shocking. I don’t doubt what you are saying, because it is your experience. And maybe you don’t feel it’s a big deal because you don’t know of anyone who’s encountered an issue with it. But it is a time bomb. I don’t know why any company, small or Fortune 500, would open themselves up to potential liability issues due to such a policy. 

Agreed. 
 

Personally, if I am accepting a job that requires overnight travel, it would only be with the caveat of a private room and further I would have to have choices about level of service - as in, my per diem would need to cover more than a cheap motel on the edge of town. I would want to feel safe, too. 

Yes - for business travel a business level hotel. Hilton or Marriott as the minimum. Hampton Inn/Courtyard if circumstances require. Private room. This should be separate from a per diem for food & ground transportation. 

DH’s co has an extensive travel policy that includes quite a bit of detail regarding illness, accessing overseas healthcare, death, personal emergency requiring immediate return to home, what kind of plane ticket is required, when the co will pay for upgrades, what type of hotel is required & when they will pay for upgrades - just a ton of detail. 

[Frances]

12 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

If the pipeline exit is a Master's,  MD, or PhD, then people stopping with a Bachelor's I would consider the very definition of a break in the pipeline. Why aren't they taking the next steps?  Sure, may not be as lucrative as some other Healthcare fields, but better than sitting on a degree that has you working in a muffin shop. 

Getting into a PhD program in Clinical Psychology is almost as competitive as getting into medical school. There are not nearly enough training slots for either in the US relative to the number of qualified students who want to pursue such degrees. The medical school problem is also compounded by not enough residency slots and then a not insignificant percentage of them going to medical school grads from outside the US.

Compared to med school, at least most Clinical Psychology programs are fully funded, so debt is at least not generally an issue. But even 35 years ago one of my best college friends who was a top student and went on to a very successful career, including founding and running a grief academy for children and co-authoring children’s books on grief, could not get into one because she simply didn’t test well. I would imagine it’s way more competitive today.

I admit to not knowing as much about MA/MS degrees in counseling or becoming a LCSW in terms of cost, pay, and training slots. But for the highest level mental health care professionals, the lack of providers is first and foremost due to a dearth of training slots.

Except at the very lowest levels (think CNA), almost all healthcare worker shortages in the US are due to a lack of training slots, not a lack of qualified, interested students.

[Frances]

7 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

In the field of social work, you can get jobs in social work with a BA/BSW or even AA. (Or high school plus experience .) But you’ll make more in a muffin shop without any on-call overnights, less danger, and probably fewer emotional scars.   
I think a year of interning scares many off, and there’s high turnover after that. At 18-ish, kids think they know what they can handle. Re-evaluating at 22-ish makes sense in a really hard field.

Plus, life.  
My friend finished her PsyD as a mom of 2. That’s not typical. She’s my hero. 

At least here, you will not make more in a muffin shop. You can get a good paying job with truly excellent benefits (due to the union) as a social worker for the state. But you are right that it can be very stressful.

[Carrie12345]

3 hours ago, Frances said:

At least here, you will not make more in a muffin shop. You can get a good paying job with truly excellent benefits (due to the union) as a social worker for the state. But you are right that it can be very stressful.

With a bachelors (or more), some areas of SW can pay decent, yes. Current C&Y caseworker in my county is under $44k. So maybe more than a muffin shop, but not a whole lot more than many less stressful jobs.  
It’s an internal battle I’ve been fighting, even with the luxury of not having to support myself.

Full clinical licensure to provide official mental health services is a LOT, in both time and money. And then private practice is a whole other thing. My friend, with a doctorate (Not SW) is on a 5 year path to open a partnership. Logistics and overhead are rough.

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, KSera said:

Being “quirky” and standing out is not the same experience as literally not having the same rights as everyone else. You might not be willing to live somewhere where laws were being made specifically against people of your religion. 

There is quite a long history of such laws being made against my religion. Of course I would not like it but I also know things can literally change over night for good or bad.  
 

I am not even arguing for or against anyone moving to any particular place.  This rabbit trail began with me suggesting kids with little job opportunities being willing to move out of those pockets of high COL. 

[livetoread]

5 hours ago, Frances said:

Compared to med school, at least most Clinical Psychology programs are fully funded, so debt is at least not generally an issue

This is true for PhD programs but not PsyD. When I was in my PhD program, tuition was fully covered and we got a stipend that helped but didn't fully cover living expenses in exchange for working as TAs. Most PsyDs offered some partial or even full scholarships to a few students but the norm was paying quite a bit of it yourself. PsyDs were a little easier to get into, and research requirements were slightly less rigorous, but you paid quite a bit more for it.

Now I haven't checked recently so maybe PsyDs have changed and become better funded as well. I just know I chose the PhD over the PsyD partly because the cost differences were huge.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

This rabbit trail began with me suggesting kids with little job opportunities being willing to move out of those pockets of high COL. 

Yes, I’m still hoping to hear suggestions of low col places that are safe options for people who are lgbtq and/or females of childbearing age. My contributions to the rabbit trail were in response to the suggestions that people were needlessly avoiding very conservative areas. I’m very interested to hear of some places that would be real options though. 

[edelweiss]

My daughter just graduated with a Psychology degree and a business minor. I warned her that she would need to go to grad school if she wanted a job related to her major. She is taking a gap year this year and planning to go to grad school in Fall 2024 for a master’s in counseling. 
 

Younger DD is a rising Junior in college.  She is also majoring in a non-stem field and will be going to grad school as well.  Both of my kids have the aptitude to major in a STEM field, but they would absolutely hate it.  It’s frustrating because I don’t want my kids to have jobs that are soul-sucking but they need to make a living.  I am hoping that grad school and the fact that they don’t want to have children will allow that. I do suspect that we will be supplementing their income for years to come.

 

[Grace Hopper]

59 minutes ago, edelweiss said:

My daughter just graduated with a Psychology degree and a business minor. I warned her that she would need to go to grad school if she wanted a job related to her major. She is taking a gap year this year and planning to go to grad school in Fall 2024 for a master’s in counseling. 
 

Younger DD is a rising Junior in college.  She is also majoring in a non-stem field and will be going to grad school as well.  Both of my kids have the aptitude to major in a STEM field, but they would absolutely hate it.  It’s frustrating because I don’t want my kids to have jobs that are soul-sucking but they need to make a living.  I am hoping that grad school and the fact that they don’t want to have children will allow that. I do suspect that we will be supplementing their income for years to come.

 

If you dd is interested in a law degree, psychology and business undergrad studies are a solid base for it. 

[Tree Frog]

12 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I'm worried about internships for my son.  I didn't need internships and my husband was currently working in his field while getting his degree so neither of us has experience.  I'm guessing my son will need them, but he needs to work, too.  

I wonder what the ratio of paid vs unpaid internships is. Two of my kids  had paid internships, though one had to do a careful analysis to see if her paycheck would cover her expenses. Had they been unpaid, they would've needed to live at home. Neither of them wanted to do that. 

COVID affected their internships. One couldn't find any available and the other had accepted one just before the outbreak, though the parameters changed so significantly as to be useless in her field of study. They still paid her, though. 

[livetoread]

38 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

If you dd is interested in a law degree, psychology and business undergrad studies are a solid base for it. 

It's a great basis for I/O psych as well. That field pays well with a masters (though more with a PhD) without needing licensure. Jobs are generally with the gov't or big corporations, but with a few years under your belt, consulting is also a lucrative option. 

[Frances]

2 hours ago, livetoread said:

This is true for PhD programs but not PsyD. When I was in my PhD program, tuition was fully covered and we got a stipend that helped but didn't fully cover living expenses in exchange for working as TAs. Most PsyDs offered some partial or even full scholarships to a few students but the norm was paying quite a bit of it yourself. PsyDs were a little easier to get into, and research requirements were slightly less rigorous, but you paid quite a bit more for it.

Now I haven't checked recently so maybe PsyDs have changed and become better funded as well. I just know I chose the PhD over the PsyD partly because the cost differences were huge.

Yes, all of my comments were regarding Clinical Psychology PhD programs, not PsyD programs.

[heartlikealion]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:16 PM, YaelAldrich said:

I have a bonus son who just graduated from a liberal arts school (not very selective) with a BA in Psychology.  He had very good grades and made Dean's list most semesters and was a TA for his senior year. He's worked most of college in food service, retail, and Jewish education.

He is looking for a job now and is looking at a variety of postions. He is complaining that nothing he is applying for is paying more than $23 an hour (in Boston).  My DH and I thought that was a pretty good wage for someone with limited work experience.  I realize Boston is a very expensive location to live, but in my youth (in a significantly lower cost of living area as well as Boston) we lived poorly.  Small, cheap apartment which took up over 50% of our income, cheap food, one car (needed for school), no vacations, etc.  He seems to want a more lavish lifestyle right out of the gate.  What say y'all?  Am I being a cranky old lady?

My first thought reading this was, "don't you need a master's to do anything with a pysch degree? Is he going back for more school?"

[Bambam]

1 hour ago, Tree Frog said:

I wonder what the ratio of paid vs unpaid internships is. Two of my kids  had paid internships, though one had to do a careful analysis to see if her paycheck would cover her expenses. Had they been unpaid, they would've needed to live at home. Neither of them wanted to do that. 

 

I would be interested in this too. My youngest had a very well paid internship, enough to cover her expenses (major metroplex, AirBnBs are outrageous for short term, but cheaper than any other solution). It led to an after graduation job offer immediately, so that is a big advantage. She got college credit for it as well.  She even got a raise before she started working at the internship (to keep up with the current salaries). She is hoping she gets another raise before she actually starts her permanent job soon. 

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, Tree Frog said:

I wonder what the ratio of paid vs unpaid internships is. Two of my kids  had paid internships, though one had to do a careful analysis to see if her paycheck would cover her expenses. Had they been unpaid, they would've needed to live at home. Neither of them wanted to do that. 

COVID affected their internships. One couldn't find any available and the other had accepted one just before the outbreak, though the parameters changed so significantly as to be useless in her field of study. They still paid her, though. 

My CompSci dd went to a school with a strong coop program, so did three paid internships/coops (what exactly is the difference other than that coops are pretty much always paid?) before graduation.  One was in Germany, where it was called a Praktikum, and which she sought out herself, but it counted at her school as coop.

My Accounting dd was going to do a summer program in Economics in Berlin but Covid shut that (and everything else) down and the company offered, rather than refunding the summer program fee, a remote paid internship.  As in WE paid them.  😵 With options being so limited during Covid, and her graduation looming, we decided to just do it.  It did help her get a job after graduation to have had that on the resume, but I would never otherwise have considered an unpaid internship, nevermind one we paid them for.  But weird times.   

Edited June 29, 2023 by Matryoshka

[rebcoola]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

Yes, I’m still hoping to hear suggestions of low col places that are safe options for people who are lgbtq and/or females of childbearing age. My contributions to the rabbit trail were in response to the suggestions that people were needlessly avoiding very conservative areas. I’m very interested to hear of some places that would be real options though. 

New Mexico is where a lot of people are fleeing that can afford other blue states.  Minnesota is another option.  Wa and Oregon have cheaper areas outside the I-5 corridor.

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, rebcoola said:

New Mexico is where a lot of people are fleeing that can afford other blue states.  Minnesota is another option.  Wa and Oregon have cheaper areas outside the I-5 corridor.

I loved living in NM and would go back there in a heartbeat. Oregon and Washington also have some nice tax advantages: no income tax in WA and no sales tax in OR. Lower income folks are disproportionately affected by sales tax, so your money can stretch 6-10% further on a lot of basic expenses in OR compared to many other states. 

[BeachGal]

7 hours ago, KSera said:

Yes, I’m still hoping to hear suggestions of low col places that are safe options for people who are lgbtq and/or females of childbearing age. My contributions to the rabbit trail were in response to the suggestions that people were needlessly avoiding very conservative areas. I’m very interested to hear of some places that would be real options though. 

Evanston, Illinois, maybe. There are three co-op buildings just a few blocks at most from Northwestern U that are extremely friendly to lgbtq. All are inexpensive and taxes are too. It’s no big deal to see individuals who are trans in the city. It’s also not far from Chicago which has in the northern area, Andersonville and Boys Town neighborhoods, both very friendly also. Public transportation is very good. Howard Brown for health care and also another social place and resource center around North Avenue, both n Chicago.

[RoundAbout]

23 hours ago, catz said:

This is an aside, but I also know tons of people who got a random UG degree from a LAC  that are doing just fine in corporate america living a middle class life in a job with benefits. 

I don't know why some kids can make thtis work and others cannot?  Connections?  School placement offices?  Culture of origin - if say both your parents were college educated and white collar?   Individual motivation and willingness to hustle?  Interpersonal skills?  Internships?  Leadership?  Just speculating, wish I knew.  I'm sure it varies.

I'm curious about this as well. I have a close friend who is only 31 and absolutely slaying it in the corporate world as a graphic designer/creative director and she has an Art History degree from a mid-level state school. No family connections but she definitely hustles. She attributes part of her success to being raised by a single father who had a career in the arts so she knew exactly what it took to make it in that world. She changes jobs frequently and always negotiates upward.

I have another friend who is doing well for a wall street firm who has no degree at all. He got his foot in the door through a friend, starting with project management and has climbed the ladder up to Business Intelligence. Spanish speaking immigrant, no family connections at all and not a ton of hustle, just smart and lucky and hardworking. 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

Social capital & connections for a lot of people, especially in the arts, lie behind success.

Some people are smart, hardworking, and also lucky.

Generally, there is some type of support there somewhere.

For dd2, the support came in the form of a family member who has a career in public service and could guide dd2 toward making herself very appealing to a new grad program. And because she had a parent (me) who could supplement her so she didn't have to work while studying and could use that time to engage in CV-boosting activities instead (luck x 2).

She also wasn't fretting about debt, because a grandparent had saved money for her to pay at least some of it off - very lucky!

When you add to that intelligence and a work ethic like nothing I've ever seen (also forms of genetic and temperamental luck) you get a good outcome, if bad luck doesn't interfere. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[2squared]

8 hours ago, Bambam said:

I would be interested in this too. My youngest had a very well paid internship, enough to cover her expenses (major metroplex, AirBnBs are outrageous for short term, but cheaper than any other solution). It led to an after graduation job offer immediately, so that is a big advantage. She got college credit for it as well.  She even got a raise before she started working at the internship (to keep up with the current salaries). She is hoping she gets another raise before she actually starts her permanent job soon. 

My 21yo has an internship this summer in a city hours away from home and hours away from her school. She found an apartment to sublet over the summer. It’s close to a college campus, and one of the roommates had switched schools and moved out early. She had other offers with similar situations of college kids subletting for the summer. I found these options through connections from a Facebook group called “xxx university parents”.  It’s working out great.

ETA: I’m posting this as a suggestion for others in similar situations. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by 2squared

[2squared]

4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I loved living in NM and would go back there in a heartbeat. Oregon and Washington also have some nice tax advantages: no income tax in WA and no sales tax in OR. Lower income folks are disproportionately affected by sales tax, so your money can stretch 6-10% further on a lot of basic expenses in OR compared to many other states. 

MN does not tax food or clothing, but state taxes are higher than average.