Thank you

[Scarlett]

nm

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

I think it is not worth arguing with people that old.

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

After loading I come in and say to my mom. Ok we got it all except that one large mirror.  She says, ‘well I hope you are coming home with me to unload it. ‘ I said, ‘well it isnt t heavy but sure I can meet you at your house….I can’t ride with you because your car is loaded down.’  She says, ‘well, <homeowner man> was going to bring it to me in his truck.  I said, ‘well, it is loaded in your car.’  She looks up at homeowner/man and says, ‘I guess I will just do as I am told.’   I said, ‘ do you want me to unload it and put it in his truck?’  She says, ‘I want you to stop talking to me.’

I have struggled with how bad that was for 2 days.  My husband and a few friends think I should call her out….what do y’all think.

I can't follow. You said you did NOT get the mirror - and then you say it IS loaded in the car?

I do not think there is anything to call her out on. She was irritated and snapped at you, probably because she had planned how to get the things home (have homeowner drive) and you simply loaded them into her car without discussing it with her. Not worth making a fuss about.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I can't follow. You said you did NOT get the mirror - and then you say it IS loaded in the car?

I do not think there is anything to call her out on. She was irritated and snapped at you, probably because she had planned how to get the things home (have homeowner drive) and you simply loaded them into her car without discussing it with her. Not worth making a fuss about.

I edited my post….the discussion was about what I and loaded.  

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I edited my post….the discussion was about what I and loaded.  

okay, got it. Doesn't change my answer. I think she was irritated that you acted without asking her first. Not worth confronting her. 

[Kidlit]

24 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think it is not worth arguing with people that old.

I mostly agree with this, as hard as it is . 😩

[Jean in Newcastle]

If she’s of sound mind, she should still be consulted before doing things “for her”. If there’s a reason why things should be different than she planned, then it can be discussed.  You crossed a boundary by jumping in without asking. 

[Scarlett]

.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[bolt.]

I don't see what happened that was worth stewing for 2 days over. 2 people got a bit short with each other -- which doesn't seem like a big deal to me. If that's a situation that was 'a really bad thing' in your context, I'd say, maybe, that the people you share your life with must be pretty friendly folks!

Maybe it would help if you lowered your standards in this situation: both for yourself and for her. It's okay if you aren't perfectly helpful. It's okay if she says something snappy if she's irritated. You both get to be humans, just getting along as best you can.

But yes, putting someone else's belongings into someone else's vehicle without consulting the owner *is* overstepping a boundary, no matter what else was going on. I'd be irritated if a family member did that to my belongings/vehicle. It's not a question of risk or damage -- it's just a general principle that you don't move other people's stuff without asking them. She shouldn't have snapped at you for that (or any) reason, so it's not a 'justification' for anything. It's just a two sided snafu that belongs out of your heart and mind. People in families occasionally say hurtful things in heated moments. It doesn't need any more of your time and attention.

[Scarlett]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:22 PM, bolt. said:

I

Well 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[catz]

My mom is about this age, lives alone, is of sound mind.  Your mom clearly wanted things done her way.  But on the other hand, I don't have a lot of patience for snippy.  I would especially be irritated by being berated in front of someone else like a child.  

I would have probably responded something like "well sounds like you are probably done with people for today, talk to you later." and call her at the normal interval.   I'd probably be OTT with asking for preferences and not making assumptions. 

I definitely wouldn't stew about it for 2 days though.  I'd walk away from that incident and forget it unless there was some regular pattern of verbal abuse.  It's also possible she is feeling a pattern of not being asked for preferences or being heard or respected.

[Scarlett]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:24 PM, catz said:

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

We all have patterns.

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

There is a pattern. 

At the zoo this week she asked my 12 year old nephew to carry her empty disposable water bottle….we got to a water filling station and he had thrown it away. She was furious.  Like seriously angry at the 12 year old.  Trying to smooth things over, I said, ‘mom next building over is a restaurant, we can get a water there.’ She says angrily, ‘I can get a water out of the vending machine, but I wanted it for free!’ I said, ‘kwell, I was just trying to solve the immediate problem. ‘ still angry she says, ‘well you didn’t!’

So the pattern is that she gets irritated when things don't go the way she had planned. Shrug. Sounds pretty normal to me.
I completely understand why you offering (unsolicited) advice on where to find water did not do anything to lessen her irritation. If anything, it may have made her felt treated like a moron who couldn't on her own solve the problem where to purchase water. Doesn't solve the irritation over the kid throwing away her bottle he was supposed to hang on to.

Let it go. 

[Scarlett]

Nm

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[bolt.]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well the car belonged to my dad also who was helping me load things up. 

Fair enough. (I was wondering how you had unlocked the car without her knowledge!) But they were still, in the very factual sense of things, her belongings. As a simple well-meaning minor overstep of her boundaries, that kind of thing should be resolved easily (with a 'whoops, my bad' attitude from one side, and a 'no problem, let's make it work anyways' attitude from the other side) and didn't need to get anyone's back up -- but it did. Humans are going to human, after all! And a few harsh words happened. 

Your follow-up story seems to suggest that your mom tends to let harsh words fly to express her irritation in a lot of situations. Maybe that's why this is sticking with you, and you are looking for more of a long term strategy, rather than what to do about resolving the exact incident in the first post? If so, that seems worthwhile, and I'm sure you'll get good advice about setting boundaries of your own.

But I also can't help but notice that your mom did have a legitimate reason *not* to act as she did towards your nephew, *but* a reason to be, let's say, perturbed? The water bottle, empty or not, disposable or not, was hers -- and she asked someone to help her carry it. If he didn't want to carry it, he should have said no, not thrown it away behind her back. Is it possible that your mom's pattern of (not acceptable at all) outbursts is part of a system where people really are disregarding her wishes, messing with her things, and making decisions for her without consulting her, and generally going behind her back in minor ways that she's expected to just not mind?

With teenagers, sometimes their worst outbursts of totally unacceptable behaviour fly out of their mouths because they are protesting perceived mistreatment. As with teens, we don't let them get away with acting like that. But also, as with teens, some introspection after the fact as to what perception of mistreatment might have fueled the protest, and whether that might be something worth changing in the family system... that happens in healthy families. It might need to happen in yours.

Edited June 11, 2023 by bolt.

[Melissa Louise]

If mom was in charge of nephew, I'd have asked her first.

"Mom, do you have time for nephew to come in and swim?"

and if the answer was yes, then I'd say to nephew, "still want to swim?'

Idk.

Mother-daughter interactions can be irritating for both parties.

Sounds like you both irritate each other, honestly.

 

[bolt.]

Oh, also in both examples, she had a competent adult plan to take care of her own needs already set up, and the interference event took away her independent plan and replaced it with a count-on-me-to-care plan. Maybe that's part of what gets her back up.

[Scarlett]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:39 PM, bolt. said:

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[bolt.]

Just now, Scarlett said:

With the water bottle, I was shocked nephew threw it away. But this is a child we rarely see, has never been to our home before….we just don’t know well.  It just seemed wrong to go on and on attacking him for throwing it away.  I was literally tying to get her some water while taking the heat off my nephew. 

Yeah, I get it. It was a totally unnecessary amount of vitriol for such a minor snafu, especially directed at a child. I don't blame you for trying to diffuse it!

Knowing the people in the situation like you do, use your imagination and try to figure out: what kinds of things might happen if you said something like, maybe, "Wow, mom, I don't like it when you lose your cool like that. Can we take a minute to (distraction) instead of talking about this any more?" Or, "Okay, that was upsetting to you, and I get it -- but I don't like the harsh words. Let's try to make it right."

One of the most striking boundary statements that we often fear to say out loud is an, "I don't like" statement. It might (or might not) be a good tool here.

[Annie G]

At the estate sale, it sounds like you were trying to be helpful on two fronts- get your mom’s stuff loaded so it’s ready to go when she is, and also helpful to folks holding the estate sale to have the stuff out of the way so nobody asks if it’s still for sale. Also, did the guy offer to deliver and unload it for her or did she basically put him on the spot to do it? I have a relative who does that kind of thing. 
Water bottle- is it possible the nephew thought he was supposed to hold it until they passed a trash can? I mean, it was a disposable water bottle. So she passed the chore to someone.  Did the kid offer or was it assigned to him?  

It sounds like a good long term solution is to not try to step in, even just to be helpful, unless you talk to her first. You probably wouldn’t have cared if someone loaded your purchases in the car for you, but it sounds like what you perceive as helpful she sees as butting in.  Sorry it’s still bothering you. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I agree with the others above. Also, keep in mind that social filtering is one of the first things to start going with age. I think to some degree you are surprised by her reactions, that they aren’t wholly in keeping with who she has been in the past. She may have been able to exercise more restraint in the past and can’t pull it together to do that now.

Give her some grace. 

[BusyMom5]

I don't think you did anything wrong- you and your Dad were loading the purchases into their car.  That seems like a nice, normal thing to do.  I dont see it as HER stuff so much as THEIR stuff going into THEIR car.  She looked ridiculous for throwing a little fit.  Same for the Zoo.  If she wanted her water bottle, she should have held it. I cam see a 12 year old thinking an empty water bottle is trash- that makes sense.  A normal person would have just bought another water bottle or drank from a fountain,  not fussed at a kid. 

If she hasn't always been like this, has she had a change in medication?   Does she have any other odd behavior changes?  Ask your dad if he's noticed anything else.  I wouldn't  "Call her out" for her words, but I would be concerned.

[Shoeless]

She sounds like she's becoming a cranky old lady. And there's not much to do about that except ignore and redirect like you would a cranky toddler. 

My dad's a little younger than your mom and he's been getting snippy with me and my son.  It's exhausting and (IMO) undeserved, but there's nothing that will change things.  No one else is going to listen to my opinion on dad's behavior, anyway, so there's no point in getting into it with other family.     

[SKL]

Re the estate sale, it sounds like mom's plan was for the homeowner to deliver and help unload the furniture into mom's house, which would have the benefit of at least one additional able-bodied person to help carry stuff.  It also sounds like she did not communicate this to you, Scarlett, which caused confusion.  The whole thing seems to have surprised you a bit, which suggests something is changing in one or both of you.  Some things that may be changing:

• Your mom's ability to communicate effectively / memory of whom she told what.
• Your mom's tendency to hold back on expressing her irritation.
• Your patience.  (You and I are about the same age, and I definitely see my patience decreasing.)

Re the water bottle, I think the irritation was with telling a 12yo to do xyz and said 12yo blows it off.  It's annoying!  It's also really annoying for many of us to have to pay $X for 8oz of plain water.  😛  TBH I would have given my kids a hard time for being lazy and disobeying.  I would not have given someone else's kids a hard time, unless I was their caregiver fairly often.  But, I don't think it's unusual for grannies to get on their grandkids for that sort of thing. My grandmothers would have let me have it in similar situations.

Re the pool, that seems like a tricky situation to me.  On one hand, I could see how granny felt set up to be the obstacle to the kid's fun, if she didn't agree.  (This happens to me when aunties swoop in and suggest something fun, when I've planned something less fun but more important ... and then I'm this big stick in the mud.)  I'd prefer "first let's find out if Granny has other plans for you" before suggesting or agreeing to something.  On the other hand, unless she actually did have something else planned for the kid, or some other reason to protest, why should she get prickly about it?

It's possible Mom's got something else going on, such as a non-obvious illness/pain, that is sucking up some of the mental energy needed for patience, kindness, and understanding.

Edited June 11, 2023 by SKL

[Laura Corin]

4 hours ago, Annie G said:

It sounds like a good long term solution is to not try to step in, even just to be helpful, unless you talk to her first. You probably wouldn’t have cared if someone loaded your purchases in the car for you, but it sounds like what you perceive as helpful she sees as butting in. 

I suspect that she is acting out of fear that her age means that she will start to lose agency. I would try to recognise that and be very careful to ask her explicitly before doing anything for her, and when the stakes are low just sympathise over issues rather than trying to fix them. This stage is hard .

[Grace Hopper]

6 hours ago, Scarlett said:

With the water bottle, I was shocked nephew threw it away. But this is a child we rarely see, has never been to our home before….we just don’t know well.  It just seemed wrong to go on and on attacking him for throwing it away.  I was literally tying to get her some water while taking the heat off my nephew. 

The thing I find most odd about this was why she expected the 12yo to carry the bottle instead of just carrying it herself. (Unless she uses a walker that requires both hands but doesn’t sound like that’s the case?) I mean, he was there to have fun, not be the fetchy boy. 

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I agree with the others above. Also, keep in mind that social filtering is one of the first things to start going with age. I think to some degree you are surprised by her reactions, that they aren’t wholly in keeping with who she has been in the past. She may have been able to exercise more restraint in the past and can’t pull it together to do that now.

Give her some grace. 

Agree! 

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

I suspect that she is acting out of fear that her age means that she will start to lose agency. I would try to recognise that and be very careful to ask her explicitly before doing anything for her, and when the stakes are low just sympathise over issues rather than trying to fix them. This stage is hard .

Agree again. This is something I’ve observed in each of our elders, a reluctance to ask for help and/or accept offered help, which seems to make them think they are feeble and incapable. Fear of losing independence due to old age is normal and often unspoken. Also, if she is experiencing any low level, persistent pain due to something like arthritis, that could make her irritable. 
 

As for the swimming, I’d have been annoyed that the clearing it with grownups didn’t happen before extending the invitation to the youngin. 

[Ausmumof3]

I haven’t read the whole thread. I think some older people get snappy when people do stuff for them because deep down they’re worried that people think they’re incompetent and they have a fear that they will end up in a nursing home without having any say. They need to prove themselves capable so they can retain their independence.

[Indigo Blue]

I think her behavior was rude, to be honest. BUT from what you are saying, even though she has always had a strong personality, now you can see it getting worse. I think with her age, it’s probably best to get to a place of indifference. Just do what needs to be done in a nice way, and when she gets snippy, just grey rock through it. Expect that this won’t change and try to adapt. The most important thing is to not let it get to you the way it did. (Yeah, look at me telling you this, lol.)

If she isn’t a person who can be called out and reasoned with, it’s best to handle it as you would any difficult person. That is, being surface level, nice but matter of fact, and, as much as you want to call her out, non-confrontational. 

Age is a factor in this, to be sure. Not to compare our moms, but, for most of my life, I’ve been too ignorant to realize and understand the dysfunction. Now that I finally do now that I’m in my 50’s, she’s old now, and so I am trying to cope by less contact, getting to indifference, and staying surface level. 

I say I don’t want to compare our moms because I don’t know if your mom is actually a toxic person, but you can still use a bit of the same strategy to make getting along easier for both of you.

That would have bothered me, and I really don’t see that it was necessary for her to behave that way. You were just trying to help. But, again, this could be more age-related than not, if she hasn’t always been quite this abrasive. So consider that because you know her better than I do. This is just my take on it. 
 

 

[Indigo Blue]

8 hours ago, Annie G said:

It sounds like a good long term solution is to not try to step in, even just to be helpful, unless you talk to her first. You probably wouldn’t have cared if someone loaded your purchases in the car for you, but it sounds like what you perceive as helpful she sees as butting in.  Sorry it’s still bothering you. 

And it seems you, Scarlett, were a bit blind sided by her behavior, so the above  seems to be good advice going forward. 

[CTVKath]

I'm sorry you are experiencing this with your Mom. I dated a guy who would act like this and say comments like that. Zingers that would hurt and embarrass me. It's like I could never do anything right and I never knew when it was coming. But every time I thought we were having a great time - bam - out of nowhere - the zingers. Took me years of therapy to relax and realize I wasn't doing anything wrong.

Listen to your DH and your friends who are present when they tell you that you didn't do anything wrong and she was unreasonable. Let it go, take a walk, go for a run to get it out of your system. I dumped the guy but you can't exactly do that with your Mom plus you love your Mom and she's family. I wish it were different for you. Those zingers out of nowhere ripped me apart.

[Scarlett]

Nm

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[SKL]

I am not a fan of telling people "you hurt my feelings."  It puts the person 100% on the defensive and deafens them to anything worth hearing.  I suppose there are some relationships that would either bounce back or be worth ending, but I don't see this as being the solution with one's elderly mom.

If you must say something, maybe try to find words that won't trigger an immediate defensive response.

For example, the next time you are thinking of making a suggestion, consider saying something like:  "I wouldn't want to push my ideas on you, but if you're open to a different option, do you think ___ would work?"

And in general, just always ask "would it be helpful if I ___" versus you unilaterally deciding.

In the case of the furniture, "how's that ___ looking in your __ room?  I'm glad you found such a nice piece.  About the way I helped load your car, I didn't realize you had a different plan until later.  I'll try to remember to ask next time.  I'm still stinging from you telling me to stop talking, heh heh.  I hope that doesn't happen again."

[Faith-manor]

With my own mother in law, whose tongue had become quite unreasonably sharp and unfair, I don't cross her and bring it up because it does no good. But I also do not volunteer to do things for her, she has to ask, and my conditions are that she does not comment if she wants them done, and I don't volunteer much conversation except very innocent topics like my garden, her flowers, what we are doing for Mark's birthday, just really easy, innocent things. I answer questions carefully, and do nor volunteer much information that would be anything she could get upset about. Because of that tongue of hers, we made her hire housekeeping four hours a week. It took pressure off me, and she is actually more civil with her housekeeper than with Mark and me. 

There just isn't any point in taking up the argument or the hurt feelings. Just let her make as much of the plans she needs for help without interfering, and if asked to do something, do exactly only that one thing, no comment, no volunteering to do anything else even if you see with your own eyes that other things should be done or a better way of doing it. There seems to be a need at the age in life to be highly controlling, and often times not at all grateful for the help. I keep making mental notes of how NOT to treat my kids when I am that age.

[Kidlit]

33 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

. I keep making mental notes of how NOT to treat my kids when I am that age.

My big question is HOW can we prepare ourselves not to act this way when we are the elders???

[Faith-manor]

37 minutes ago, Kidlit said:

My big question is HOW can we prepare ourselves not to act this way when we are the elders???

Well, what I have found is that natural personality/behaviors that we allow to persist prior to becoming old, seems to worsen. So the key I think is to be proactive now about being the person we hope to be as elders. We can't stop medical issues that cause brain disease, but we can choose to already be reining in sharp tongues, snarkiness or whatever thinking carefully about our approach to things as we age. My mother in law has always had these tendencies. Always. Now it is just on steroids. She was aware that she was a difficult person to live with even when she was a young woman. She didn't care. My mother was ALWAYS passive aggressive and a martyr. Now she is those two things epically. 

So I think it begins now. I also think that saving for retirement so there is something for our kids to use to hire help so they are not always on the hook for us to rely on really helps the parent child relationship. We are trying to do that so our kids have far less burden. Our mothers are wearing us out! That doesn't help with dealing with the crankiness of elders.

[KeriJ]

9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Well, what I have found is that natural personality/behaviors that we allow to persist prior to becoming old, seems to worsen. So the key I think is to be proactive now about being the person we hope to be as elders. We can't stop medical issues that cause brain disease, but we can choose to already be reining in sharp tongues, snarkiness or whatever thinking carefully about our approach to things as we age. My mother in law has always had these tendencies. Always. Now it is just on steroids. She was aware that she was a difficult person to live with even when she was a young woman. She didn't care. My mother was ALWAYS passive aggressive and a martyr. Now she is those two things epically. 

So I think it begins now. I also think that saving for retirement so there is something for our kids to use to hire help so they are not always on the hook for us to rely on really helps the parent child relationship. We are trying to do that so our kids have far less burden. Our mothers are wearing us out! That doesn't help with dealing with the crankiness of elders.

This was very helpful!

[Garga]

I don’t live near my mother and rarely see her (2500 apart.). Recently, though, during most interactions we have, she has been finding ways to try to make me feel bad and judged. We had what I thought was a lovely visit from my parents last August, but afterwards she said a number of hurtful things and now I think back on that visit and it’s negative memory for me. She totally ruined the memory with the things she said about it afterward.

I wish I could help, but I’m still trying to sort out how to deal with this on my own. It’s easier for me because I’m so far apart. I’ve thought that if I live closer, I’d have to speak up when things bother me, but in the moment. My own mother could never handle a heart-to-heart without getting defensive. My plan, I think, would be to point out the behavior just enough that it’s uncomfortable in the hopes that my mother would want to avoid the discomfort and start treating me better, just for her own comfort.

But for now, since we are so far apart and have absolutely no sway over each other’s lives, I do my best to let things go after a couple of days. But it can certainly take a few days to let these things go, so I understand stewing over it for days.

I guess if it was me, I’d try to think of a mild statement to say ahead of time that can apply to any situation and then start using it. Like what someone wrote above like, “I don’t like it when you X.”

“I don’t like it when speak in a rude tone.” “I don’t like it when you yell at a child.”

 

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Kidlit said:

My big question is HOW can we prepare ourselves not to act this way when we are the elders???

I think it helps to cultivate attitudes of kindness, humility, and gratitude, not entitlement and needing to be right all the time.

I've said this before about my mother: she had low expectations of happiness in her life. She was a teen during the great depression; her family had been on welfare after her father died; etc., etc. So she had a tough life in her early years. She never felt entitled to anything. And she maintained that all her life. 

As she got older, he quirks increased - for example, she had not had electricity in her house till she was a teen when her older brother insisted on having the house wired. She never fully trusted it and that got worse as time went on. At one point when I was living with her after my father died - I guess she was in her late 70s - someone gave me an aquarium and equipment so we could have some fish. Oh hell no, my mother was not going to have an electric contraption that held water! She unplugged everything when she was finished using it - now people do it for environmental purposes, but she was just afraid that coffee maker would spontaneously combust.

But, she never got mean or judgmental, none of that. She never offered unsolicited advice, and was very humble with regard to general knowledge. Unlike many older people, she understood that things change and so never gave me stupid outdated baby advice. (Unlike my MIL who thought I should have been feeding my 8 week old baby cereal in a bottle instead of nursing.) 

Anyway, I don't think people have to go through big tough times to be that way. I think being grateful, keeping up with cultural changes, understanding that the world is not like it was 50 or whatever years ago, and just plain being a nice person will go a long way. Building close relationships and actually listening to people helps too of course.

 

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Well, what I have found is that natural personality/behaviors that we allow to persist prior to becoming old, seems to worsen. So the key I think is to be proactive now about being the person we hope to be as elders. We can't stop medical issues that cause brain disease, but we can choose to already be reining in sharp tongues, snarkiness or whatever thinking carefully about our approach to things as we age. My mother in law has always had these tendencies. Always. Now it is just on steroids. She was aware that she was a difficult person to live with even when she was a young woman. She didn't care. My mother was ALWAYS passive aggressive and a martyr. Now she is those two things epically. 

So I think it begins now. I also think that saving for retirement so there is something for our kids to use to hire help so they are not always on the hook for us to rely on really helps the parent child relationship. We are trying to do that so our kids have far less burden. Our mothers are wearing us out! That doesn't help with dealing with the crankiness of elders.

I like a lot of these ideas, but, functionally, it's the "reigning in" brain function that tends to be involved in the degradation of age or (many) diseases.

Therefore I don't think being an excellent reigner-inner during our functional years will be as helpful as we might hope in the long term.

Instead, I suggest abandoning the whole perspective of "tolerate things as much as you can, until you can't, then just react, because you've lost your cool" -- we can, instead cultivate an approach where we ask for what we want: coolly, clearly, and proactively; well before we are at our limits or feeling like a reaction needs reigning-in.

Habitually having good boundaries, saying what we like and don't like (and why), and openly teaching people how to treat us (without lashing out or punishing them) are very strong skills. If we train ourselves for decades, those are the habits that are likely to last, because when we get impulsive feelings about not liking something, or wanting something to be different -- our instincts will be to *just say so* in a regular voice, with the ordinary expectation of being heard once we explain ourselves. (Instead of acting put out, being passive-aggressive, or using harsh words.) Teaching ourselves that we don't need to be covert about our desires, or manipulative about getting them met is a powerful choice.

I love the idea of saving up and reducing the workload on adult kids!

[fraidycat]

I'm petty enough to just take her at her word and stop talking to her until she initiates contact. 
 

I wouldn't call her out now, but would work on coming up with a phrase for similar future interactions. I love "it sounds like you are done with people for today" and hope to remember it for myself.

Now, back to the recent incidents. I can see why your mom could get annoyed about loading the items without consulting her. That part is valid. It was wrong on your part. The way she spoke to and treated you about it is wrong on her part and was outright rude. One party was acting with good intentions and the other party was just plain jerk.

At the zoo - Your mom could have carried her own empty water bottle if it was so precious to her. I'm going to assume (with 99.9% certainty) that she did not clearly communicate to nephew that the intention was to refill the bottle. In that instance she was 100% wrong and I'm glad you tried to diffuse the situation.
 

She is acting like a petulant child and being mean to people over minor inconveniences or things not matching some picture in her head of how it should be. Her feelings are her feelings so whatever on that - it is what it is, but being a jerk to other people is not OK even if she is annoyed. 

So, I wouldn't call her out for the past, but I would remember some stock phrases to start calling it out in the moment on future interactions. Even if it just "what a rude thing to say to someone". You have to decide what your boundaries are. Will you just point out the rudeness and redirect the convo or will you end the conversation/interaction/visit completely.

She is free to act however she wants, and you are free to put up with it, or not. The choice is yours.
 

Edited June 11, 2023 by fraidycat

[Kidlit]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Well, what I have found is that natural personality/behaviors that we allow to persist prior to becoming old, seems to worsen. So the key I think is to be proactive now about being the person we hope to be as elders. We can't stop medical issues that cause brain disease, but we can choose to already be reining in sharp tongues, snarkiness or whatever thinking carefully about our approach to things as we age. My mother in law has always had these tendencies. Always. Now it is just on steroids. She was aware that she was a difficult person to live with even when she was a young woman. She didn't care. My mother was ALWAYS passive aggressive and a martyr. Now she is those two things epically. 

So I think it begins now. I also think that saving for retirement so there is something for our kids to use to hire help so they are not always on the hook for us to rely on really helps the parent child relationship. We are trying to do that so our kids have far less burden. Our mothers are wearing us out! That doesn't help with dealing with the crankiness of elders.

The bolded really resonates.  If I've learned nothing else from this board, it's to try your dead level best to have the finances in place to care for yourself as you age!

[73349]

1 hour ago, fraidycat said:

I'm petty enough to just take her at her word and stop talking to her until she initiates contact. 
I wouldn't call her out now, but would work on coming up with a phrase for similar future interactions. I love "it sounds like you are done with people for today" and hope to remember it for myself.

Yeah, I found myself thinking of the answer, "I can do that for you" and saying nothing further for a bit.

I am a bit concerned that I will be an Unfiltered Old Lady, as I have to work quite a bit at it now.

[SKL]

As for how not to be that person in our old age ....

I'm pretty sure my mom's whole adult life has been about "how do I not be my mom."  She has done a really good job of it IMO, although obviously she isn't perfect.

On the other hand, my mom's side has been genetically blessed with a brilliantly quick wit.  It can be impressive.  It can also be very politically incorrect.  Filters are great for this, but the filter is failing.

How does one stop one's brain from manufacturing word play that needs filtering?

Fortunately or unfortunately, I've inherited some of my mom's wit.  Most of the time, this means I crack good jokes.  However, I have stopped myself from saying some things that could be problematic.  When I'm 80 or so, it's likely those things are gonna come right out.  (I've already warned my kids about this, as we watch their grandma go through this.)

(I would also note that in old age, sometimes people are repeating things they heard when they were young.  Things that absolutely don't fly any more, things they would not have ever said at our age.  If that's happening, they don't have the mental capacity to know better any more.)

As a mom, I tried to train myself to spin everything as positively as I can.  Instead of saying "don't do this" I'd figure out a way to say "do this other thing."  Instead of "no, you can't," I'd say "yes, you can, after xyz happens."  Instead of "that looks / tastes bad" I say "I'll bet this would taste / look even better with ___."  I try to remember to say "thank you" when it's even remotely meaningful.  I also inherited some verbal gentleness from my dad's side.  We'll see if any of that helps in my old age. 

But just in case, I want my kids to understand that old people sometimes say cringey things.  If they haven't always been horrible, they probably didn't just become horrible now.  More likely, they are exhibiting mental and/or physical decline.  As my dad pointed out about his mom, people get scared when they notice that they are losing their hold (mental or physical) on things; and that fear can exacerbate the problems.  I honestly think it's on the next generation to be understanding, especially when we're talking about someone who is clearly in decline, vs. someone who was hateful all your life.  Not to say I'm gonna just let it rip after a certain age, but maybe it won't be a decision.

Edited June 11, 2023 by SKL

[Scarlett]

Nm

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[marbel]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I lean toward my mom’s personality for sure. I work very hard at being, kinder, more grateful, not entitled and so on. 
 

At our  friends house she asked for the WiFi pw. Friend brings her a big box with the pw written in it and just then in my phone it pops up ‘share password’. So I hit share and told her I had shared with her. She looks down at her iPad, sees she that  she is in and then says ‘thanks homeowner’.  
SMH

So I would probably just stop doing stuff like that. The homeowner had given her the password (in a big box? I don't get that, but whatever) so there was no need for you to do anything. Maybe she feels (correctly or not) that you overstep. Please note I am not saying that what you did was overstepping, but maybe she perceives it that way. Just as with the furniture from the estate sale. Maybe she feels you are trying to parent her? (Obvs I have no idea, the thought just came to mind.)

[Scarlett]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:08 PM, marbel said:

 

Right. Maybe so. 
 

I am making sure I don’t respond to anyone that way. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[regentrude]

29 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

At our  friends house she asked for the WiFi pw. Friend brings her a big box with the pw written in it and just then in my phone it pops up ‘share password’. So I hit share and told her I had shared with her. She looks down at her iPad, sees she that  she is in and then says ‘thanks homeowner’.  
SMH

Of course she should thank the homeowner for letting her have the password. It sounds like you're scrutinizing any interactions you have with her to an unusual degree.

[Scarlett]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:17 PM, regentrude said:

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Scarlett

[marbel]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

No I am not. The homeowner/friend was long gone. She did not even hear the ‘thank you’. I am the one who let her in and she did not even acknowledge my existence . 

I'm really confused. You had said:

44 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

At our  friends house she asked for the WiFi pw. Friend brings her a big box with the pw written in it

Am I not understanding what the friend brought her, and when?