Nm

[Ann.without.an.e]

thank you 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[TheReader]

It sounds like DD & DSIL are on the right track. 

SIL needs to *also* speak to his mom and say something along the lines of "You did a great job with me, as did (Anne without an e) with (DD). Now it is our turn to be the parents, and you need to respect our way of parenting.  Preemie twins are a different ball game than full term singleton babies, and (DD) & I have spent (two months?) learning how to best meet their needs; if we does things differently than you would do them, that's okay; it doesn't mean your way was wrong, it just means our girls have different needs than I and my siblings did, times have changed, twins are different, preemies are different, etc. It also doesn't mean *OUR* way is wrong, again, just different. I'm so glad you're my mom, because that helped give me confidence to do this, and I know you will trust me and DD with this." 

In the moment, if SIL is present too, he should be the one to speak up. (b/c the MIL's personality seems such she'll take it better coming from him). If he isn't, DD needs to absolutely speak up in the moment, "Oh, MIL, I'm sorry, I thought I made clear, the girls really need to be asleep right now, not playing; preemies take a lot longer to readjust when their sleep routines get interrupted, b/c their brains haven't developed as much yet. Thanks so much for understanding!"  Say this while turning down the lights, any music/TV/noise, speaking in a calm, quiet voice (modeling the voice level she wants used, etc. 

If after one attempt, MIL doesn't respect this and pulls it again, DD needs to have MIL leave the room while DD pumps with the sleeping babies, "so I can be sure that the babies stay asleep this time; It's just so vital to their growth & development as preemies". 

If it continues "I'm so sorry, MIL, I really want you involved, but the babies are just not ready for so much stimulation; I think we need to cut our visit/your visit short and try again in a few (weeks, months, etc.) when the babies have settled a little better"

Put the focus on the differences that exist -- twins, preemies, etc. -- so that MIL has an "out" to why it has to be different. Have SIL speak up *and use "our", "we", etc., not "she, dd," etc (when talking about "If she does something different than you would --- NO, use "if WE do something different than you would..") so that MIL sees them as a truly united family unit. 

Also encourage DD to speak up in the moment (he's right about that), and use the preemie thing to her advantage; that takes the focus off of "you did this wrong, MIL" to "oh, these babies need different things b/c of...." which will help the victim card aspect. 

Your DD also needs to NOT coddle her on this. When MIL said "Oh, grandma messes everything up..." DD needs to respond something like "Of course you don't mess everything up; you've had only one day to adjust, while I've/*we've* had two months so far. I've learned though that doing things like this (and re-explaining) really is best for them; I'm sure you'll remember next time!" Said sweetly, kindly, etc. but still firm. And again it reiterates DD/SIL's position as those who know their babies the best, puts the focus again on the twin/preemie/we're the parents aspect, still removes the "you screwed up" part, but holds firm to "but this is the way to do it." 

It's exhausting in those early days, but they'll sort it out. Tell them both to hold firm, kind, but firm. 

[Kassia]

I love @TheReader's post.  So kind while not giving in.  I wish I had people skills like that!  

 

@Ann.without.an.e I'm sorry all of that happened!  How frustrating and exhausting.  😞 

[TheReader]

@Kassia -- thank you! Hard-won, heard-earned, learned over the decades navigating my own difficult family relationships. We *lived with* my MIL when my preemie son was born....much of what I posted here was taken directly from memory of us navigating nearly exactly that 25+ yrs ago. 

Also, it's much easier to write it out on a forum than to navigate it flawlessly in real life 😉 so don't hold me in *too* high esteem! 

[Katy]

I’d say, “It’s nap time. Since you won’t take their need for sleep seriously you need to leave. Come back in an hour or go home, but you’re not welcome here for the next hour.”

If she’s less prone to rudely establishing boundaries than I am, she can have her DH tell his mom. 

[Kassia]

Some advice that I used successfully with my MIL is to tell her that "the doctor says..." when it comes to babies/kids.  She respects doctors (but not me) so that always held a lot of weight and she wouldn't become defensive if the advice came from a doctor instead of me.  She'd still complain about things saying that her kids grew up fine even without seat belts, sleeping on their stomachs, bottle feeding vs. breast, junk food, etc. but she'd back off if I told her the *doctor* said...

Edited April 22, 2023 by Kassia

[BusyMom5]

I would put the babies into another room.  If shes nursing to sleep,  then pumping, just stay in another room.   Not only that, but your DD should also be napping with the babies sometimes.  Its okay to say " Hey, we are going to be feeding and napping the next 2 hours.  You are free to do X, Y or Z.  We should back in 2-3 hours." Then just go into another part of the house.  

Your DD did say that MIL needed to let babies sleep (and who doesn't love holding a sleeping baby?).  Next its SILs job to let her know that getting off routine really made the last week hard.  

With our twins we would leave family functions and drive until they fell asleep.  Then just park somewhere and enjoy the quiet.  I also had one singleton that just would NOT nurse anywhere but home.  If there were noises or things going on, she wouldn't sleep or eat.  I could sometimes nurse her in the car, but there were times I would give DH the look and say we had to go.  Such is life with babies.  

[Danae]

3 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

"grandma messes everything up, she's such a screw up" until DD consoled her that it was ok.

 

DD could try telling the babies, “Sorry sweeties, grandma is being a passive-aggressive witch again so she needs to go home!”  

 

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

"grandma messes everything up, she's such a screw up"

I’d try “That doesn’t work on me.” 
 

I think DSIL has to be the one to confront his mother and not expect his wife to manage that conflict for him. If he can’t or won’t do this, then grandma should only have access to the babies when they’re supposed to be awake or when DSIL can supervise. Can they have a room for napping that is off limits to saboteurs?

[catz]

I don't know, I think every young couple has some of this where they have to decide where they want their boundaries and how to enforce them as a couple.  And that's what needs to happen.  Maybe keep visits short with MIL and call out stuff immediately.  Sounds like they are thinking clearly about it.  As the other MIL, I wouldn't want to get my opinion clouding the mix too much.  I'd just encourage my kid to have her boundaries and enforce them firmly.

If grandma doesn't respect naps, she only gets short visits during awake times.  

[LMD]

I don't think your dd is going to fix this personality or dynamic that she's married into. I feel for her, as these issues often become very apparent after babies, when you're already dealing with a lot. 

I think she and dsil need to think about what they need, and be proactive about directing it. Don't let his mom just come and sit around all weekend. Give her clear, explicit information about how to help, preferably her son should be the one to explain and be around to 'enforce'. If she's a good'un she'll be thankful for a concrete way to help. If she's a drama queen, she'll probably flounce & sulk and then your dd & dsil get to have a quiet weekend (if dsil holds his nerve).

[-----]

Yeah, she's probably not going to make even a dent in the dynamics of her dh's family.  I would change the focus to something along the lines of 'how can I protect my children around these people'.  Ideally, her dh would handle his own relatives when he's there, and she would only have to speak up to protect her dc when he wasn't there.  But based on the below info, the dh may not hold his end of the bargain.  So she should be ready to act in case that happens to be the case.

10 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

DSIL adores his mom. He has always been the one to boost her up when she is down and he cottles the victim thing she has going on. He just wants everyone happy. DD did express her concerns to him after the weekend and he said he is on her side and she just needs to call his mom out at the exact time she is doing something that is not ok and not wait until later. 

Was/is he the Golden Child in his FOO?  It kinda sounds like it, but only based on the little bit of info here.  Not that it really matters.  What matters most is protecting those babies.  She really needs to focus on that and be careful not to get sucked into the well-established drama this family has going on.  Just keep it simple and think about her babies.  The dh and his family will sort themselves out eventually.

[fraidycat]

Ugh. What a tough situation. I feel bad for your DD. Could you practice role-playing setting boundaries with her? Starting with IGNORING Mil when she is role-playing the victim. Like, just completely changing the subject.

MIL: "grandma messes everything up, I'm such a screw-up"

Babies: ...

DD: "I'm going to grab a glass of water" or "I need to change this diaper" or "It looks like a nice sunny day for a walk in the stroller after our afternoon naps".

Pass the bean dip.

Just because MIL invites DD to her pity party, it does not mean DD needs to attend. And if you can role-play with her then it'll be easier for her "muscle memory" to not engage when MIL is in manipulation mode.

As a grown woman, having anxiety and insecurities is not a valid excuse. She is using her diagnoses as a weapon to manipulate her son, and now your DD.

[easypeasy]

Oh, lord. I would swear your DD has my MIL.

She needs to stand firm ASAP. Even through the inevitable MIL tears. DSIL needs to back her up.

You CAN be kind, but firm. You CAN be kind, but say no. You CAN be kind, but still stand up for yourself.

Have your DD repeat those words over and over again.

It took until my oldest was around 12 before MIL did something SO horrible and publicly embarrassing for me that things came to a boiling point. After that, dh and I called 100% of the shots (time spent visiting, etc) and cut her off whenever she started whining/complaining/crying about it. It was FREEING.

I hope your DD can reach that point well before her girls are that old.

[kiwik]

Put the babies in the bedroom to sleep while keeping MIL busy somewhere else.

[livetoread]

I agree with those who say ignore the passive aggressive stuff. No need to counter it and certainly no need to rush to reassure her. Just act like you never heard her and let the silence speak for itself.

It's understandable that your dd wants mil to like her, but the sooner she can let go of that need, the better. She has babies to protect now, and their wellbeing is more important than trying to please a difficult mil. Mil is not going to like her all the time because mil is unhealthy and that's just the way it is.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, kiwik said:

Put the babies in the bedroom to sleep while keeping MIL busy somewhere else.

Or just stop inviting MIL over. She’s not actually helping. 

[Faith-manor]

If there was a mother in law jail, she deserves a lengthy sentence!

That said, I would simply not have her over. Meet either on neutral ground - go to the park for an hour and invite her along - take twins to her house once in a while for an hour, then leave. She sees them and interacts, but on a limited enough basis not to get the babies riled up and sleep out of whack. But no more allowing her to show up to the house and overstay. The boundary should be placed by her son, not dd.

My father in law was a terror at uppending our lives and the kids sleep, so we had to put the kabosh on long visits. He also wanted to eat meals at weird times so once the kids were on solids, it was a nightmare because he believed kids should only eat when the adults are ready no matter how hungry the little person is. In the end, he didn't spend much time with the grandkids, and never on his terms. Sad. But some grandparents just can't change their ways enough to accommodate little people schedules, and refuse to respect parents.

[Grace Hopper]

I think that not exploding on her MIL is a huge sign that dd is extending the level of grace possible given she is a nursing mother of newborn preemie twins. If mil is of the disposition you describe, and always has been, nothing your dd does will make her change or be happy. 
 

I agree with the “doctor says,” and napping/staying in the same room with the babies at nap time when MIL is in the house; mom and babies behind the closed door of the mom’s bedroom. I’d also leave an “if you really want to be helpful” list of household chores mil could be doing while dd and babies are getting their sleep. 
 

DD has the well-earned right to be the ringmaster of this circus. MIL won’t like it but dd is setting important precedents for the future of grand parenting.  

Edited April 23, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Arcadia]

I’m so sorry and your son in law needs to step up. What we did was stay in the bedroom and leave my husband to deal with his parents. Also my husband would get his parents out of our home which is easy since his parents love shopping and buying lottery so walking to the nearby supermarket to buy MegaMillions or SuperLotto would give me peace for at least an hour. In my case it did help that my FIL’s sisters all knew and understood that my in-laws had wear out their welcome. 

[Halftime Hope]

22 hours ago, TheReader said:

It sounds like DD & DSIL are on the right track. 

SIL needs to *also* speak to his mom and say something along the lines of "You did a great job with me, as did (Anne without an e) with (DD). Now it is our turn to be the parents, and you need to respect our way of parenting.  Preemie twins are a different ball game than full term singleton babies, and (DD) & I have spent (two months?) learning how to best meet their needs; if we does things differently than you would do them, that's okay; it doesn't mean your way was wrong, it just means our girls have different needs than I and my siblings did, times have changed, twins are different, preemies are different, etc. It also doesn't mean *OUR* way is wrong, again, just different. I'm so glad you're my mom, because that helped give me confidence to do this, and I know you will trust me and DD with this." 

In the moment, if SIL is present too, he should be the one to speak up. (b/c the MIL's personality seems such she'll take it better coming from him). If he isn't, DD needs to absolutely speak up in the moment, "Oh, MIL, I'm sorry, I thought I made clear, the girls really need to be asleep right now, not playing; preemies take a lot longer to readjust when their sleep routines get interrupted, b/c their brains haven't developed as much yet. Thanks so much for understanding!"  Say this while turning down the lights, any music/TV/noise, speaking in a calm, quiet voice (modeling the voice level she wants used, etc. 

If after one attempt, MIL doesn't respect this and pulls it again, DD needs to have MIL leave the room while DD pumps with the sleeping babies, "so I can be sure that the babies stay asleep this time; It's just so vital to their growth & development as preemies". 

If it continues "I'm so sorry, MIL, I really want you involved, but the babies are just not ready for so much stimulation; I think we need to cut our visit/your visit short and try again in a few (weeks, months, etc.) when the babies have settled a little better"

Put the focus on the differences that exist -- twins, preemies, etc. -- so that MIL has an "out" to why it has to be different. Have SIL speak up *and use "our", "we", etc., not "she, dd," etc (when talking about "If she does something different than you would --- NO, use "if WE do something different than you would..") so that MIL sees them as a truly united family unit. 

Also encourage DD to speak up in the moment (he's right about that), and use the preemie thing to her advantage; that takes the focus off of "you did this wrong, MIL" to "oh, these babies need different things b/c of...." which will help the victim card aspect. 

Your DD also needs to NOT coddle her on this. When MIL said "Oh, grandma messes everything up..." DD needs to respond something like "Of course you don't mess everything up; you've had only one day to adjust, while I've/*we've* had two months so far. I've learned though that doing things like this (and re-explaining) really is best for them; I'm sure you'll remember next time!" Said sweetly, kindly, etc. but still firm. And again it reiterates DD/SIL's position as those who know their babies the best, puts the focus again on the twin/preemie/we're the parents aspect, still removes the "you screwed up" part, but holds firm to "but this is the way to do it." 

It's exhausting in those early days, but they'll sort it out. Tell them both to hold firm, kind, but firm. 

Can a tiny version of you come sit on my shoulder?

 

[gardenmom5]

23 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

DSIL adores his mom. He has always been the one to boost her up when she is down and he cottles the victim thing she has going on. He just wants everyone happy.

This is NOT healthy.  He is *enabling* her.
And it's a bad precedent.  What's he going to do when he has two two-year olds throwing tantrums?

14 hours ago, LMD said:

I don't think your dd is going to fix this personality or dynamic that she's married into. I feel for her, as these issues often become very apparent after babies, when you're already dealing with a lot. 

I think she and dsil need to think about what they need, and be proactive about directing it. Don't let his mom just come and sit around all weekend. Give her clear, explicit information about how to help, preferably her son should be the one to explain and be around to 'enforce'. If she's a good'un she'll be thankful for a concrete way to help. If she's a drama queen, she'll probably flounce & sulk and then your dd & dsil get to have a quiet weekend (if dsil holds his nerve).

This.

My sil would have a list of chores for her mother she she would visit her.   "you can give her something to do, or she'll find something to do . . . "

don't just tell her what she can do - have it written down and posted so she can't claim she didn't know.

slightly different, but not really. dil was injured, and lots of help was needed.  I did that with dd's mil when we were both there in February.  (And gave instructions on how to do it with 2dd.)   her mil just hid out in her room until the day she left.  Me - I was there to take care of the boys so dd could take care of dsil.  I had 1dgs *finally* getting into a good bedtime routine . . .  🤬 there went that . . . . . 

[kbutton]

6 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Or just stop inviting MIL over. She’s not actually helping. 

Yep.

Mine was helpful with my firstborn at first. Then she just wasn't anymore, and she actively did things that were dangerous with him. By the second child, it was really bad. I needed help, which made it worse.

Your SIL needs to step up, or your DD is going to feel like he's part of the problem. 

[Clarita]

Longer term just invite MIL over for visits where no one is going to be upset that she is constantly playing with the grandchildren. Right now that is HARD but this period lasts a short time. When they are older babies and toddlers MIL can spend 1-2 hours over and the children can spend the whole time playing and interacting with her. 

My husband and I do have an agreement that all difficult conversations with our parents is done by the child of that parent. In addition all "bad news" or criticism comes wither from we decided or the child of the parent decided (no matter whose idea it was to begin with).  It was a suggestion/advice from pre-marital counseling. It's worked really well for us. So I would suggest DD have a hard talk with her husband, where they hash out exactly what their stance as a couple is regarding this. Then whatever is decided in that conversation, both of them need to be united when speaking to the grandparents.

5 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

On 4/22/2023 at 10:18 AM, Ann.without.an.e said:

DSIL adores his mom. He has always been the one to boost her up when she is down and he cottles the victim thing she has going on. He just wants everyone happy.

This is NOT healthy.  He is *enabling* her.
And it's a bad precedent.  What's he going to do when he has two two-year olds throwing tantrums?

I used to coddle my mom because of her anxiety issues and I don't think coddling your parents necessary sets precedent for coddling your kids. It is a different relationship, when you are the child and technically should/need to be calling out your mom on things. As a child who did placate her mom a lot he does need to put his big boy pants on and be on his wife's (mother of his children) side.