November groceries: shortages + inflation

[prairiewindmomma]

Does anyone want to talk about this or are we all so disgusted with inflation that we would prefer to move on? 😂😉

I am finding more gaps in my weekly grocery shopping again. We had the usual lack of mushrooms and lettuce but this week we also had no red peppers, no fresh apples (still had last year’s stock), and fresh tomatoes were very low. My store only had store brands for all of their canned tomato products, except for two remaining cans of Muir Glen diced tomatoes. Normally there are 4 6’ tall cases of tomato products—probably 10-12’ wide. Eggs and a few other products had purchasing limits of 2. 
 

On the inflation side of things, the ramen section of my store has expanded greatly—probably quadrupling in size, and people were queued up 10 deep in the aisle to get a chance at picking out a case. 

[Pawz4me]

It was a bad year for the California tomato crop due to drought. Shortages of tomato products are likely to continue. A CNet article from 8/29/22 --

Quote

California, the leading tomato producer state in the US, is responsible for more than 90% of the tomatoes grown domestically. But the state's ongoing drought is responsible for a lower supply of tomatoes this year. Without rainwater, farmers have been forced to let their tomato crops go thirsty. Roughly 37% of farmers are killing existing crops due to dry conditions, CNN reported. Instead, many farmers are focusing on hardier crops that generally require less water.

But the shortage of tomatoes has been a long time coming, according to the Washington Post. An oversupply of tomatoes was prompted by fewer countries importing American tomatoes between 2015 and 2019 due to US canned tomato products being more expensive. Therefore, farmers cut back on growing tomatoes, leaving a short supply at the start of the pandemic.

It's unclear at this time how long a tomato shortage could last as farmers adjust to the drought and focus on other crops.

I haven't noted any restrictions on number of any items that can be purchased here. Shelves are hit-and-miss, but I haven't been able to figure out what's due to product shortages and what's due to staffing shortages. Seems to be at least a bit of both.

[regentrude]

I have not encountered any shortages or restrictions on the numbers of items (that I purchase; there are shelves where I wouldn't have a clue if they were bare). Rural Midwest, small town.

Edited November 1, 2022 by regentrude

[Faith-manor]

Dd is having gaps in decent produce such as broccoli crowns that are not already going bad, fresh mushrooms, green onions that will last more than a day or two in the fridge, same for celery. Seems like it is a shipping thing, and then timing her curbside pick up with the day produce comes in.

I have read that tomatoes shortages are going to be an ongoing thing with a significant percentage of vegetable farmers in California choosing not to plant any in the coming year because of irrigation issues and another large number looking at cutting back significantly in the amount they plant. This is going to cause all tomato products to rise in cost. We can get fresh tomatoes for salads that are Michigan raised year round here because we have some farm with greenhouses and doing hydroponics which conserves water. But not bulk. Not enough to make barbecue sauces, salsa, and enchilada sauces all the time for less than whatever they are going to charge per jar or can. I have 28 quarts of tomatoes put away for winter, and believe me I am in ration mode already. I have enough dehydrated cherry tomatoes to handle all of our salads until next harvest. But I am worried, worried, worried, about where climate change is headed for my kids and grandkids. So since temps may be pretty frigid this winter, and food is just going to keep rising but wages aren't going to keep pace, our Christmas gifts for our adult sons who are all still living in Michigan are quilts, draft dogs for their exterior doors, window quilts, and then a bunch of freezer meals as well as some staples like 10 lbs of rice and rice cookers, home canned sauces, and beef and chicken for their freezers as well. They all have decent freezers and some pantry storage space but their rentals are drafty and the landlords have no intention of doing anything about that. They keep their heat at 62 during the day, and 65 at night to save money. Not exactly glamorous gifts, but appreciated. I am trying to make the quilts really nice with extra warm batting for the middle layer. Dd and hubby are better set except for some items that are quite hard to find in Huntsville, so when she was home this summer, we gifted them a whole bunch in advance...30 lbs of sil's alternative flour, organic brown rice (half price at home compared to Alabama), etc. I also gave them 13 of the quarts of dehydrated apple chips for snacks. We have toys and pajamas for the little for Christmas morning.

I have noticed my mom, whose budget is tight, cutting back at the grocery store and eating a less diabetic friendly diet because of rising prices, so we will be inviting her to eat with us more often, and paying some of her propane bill this winter which will free up money for groceries.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

49 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We can get fresh tomatoes for salads that are Michigan raised year round here because we have some farm with greenhouses and doing hydroponics which conserves water. But not bulk.

believe me I am in ration mode already.

 But I am worried, worried, worried, about where climate change is headed for my kids and grandkids. 

 

Same....on all of it.

My summer garden tomatoes never did anything. I think we harvested four all summer. Most people in our area had the same problem. I was really hoping to get more out of the garden and to find more in the stores at an affordable price to can, but it just never came together.  The restaurant store I have access to never stocked 25# boxes like they normally do. We eat a low sodium diet, so a lot of the commercially canned stuff just doesn't work for us. No salt added products have been in very low/intermittent stock all summer, and then this week, it looks like everything else imploded in my area. 

I can swing the hydroponic fresh stuff at the high end markets here if I have to, but I will need to rework our menus and cut back on tomato products overall if the canned no salt option is just gone for the season.

 

[Ausmumof3]

The main thing here seems to be paracetamol. The name brands are in stock but never any of the discount generics and even the name brands seem to be reducing. I’m imagining the latest weather/flooding will have an impact but right now there’s tonnes of veg in store. 

[City Mouse]

I’m not seeing as much shortages locally, but I live in a very, very small town. Our small grocery and the slightly larger grocery stores in larger, but still small towns, never had much of a selection anyway. When I travel to a Walmart, I do notice more shortages, or at least changes to the variety and volume of items.

What I notice more than shortages is the increase in prices but I can still find good deals by watching for sales and clearance items rather than shop from a set list or menu plan.

[Annie G]

Lettuce is high here, and the quality is bad. $4 for a head of iceberg last week, though later I found one for $2, but it was already brown.  Our local chick fil a stores are having trouble sourcing lettuce also. 
 

Original Fritos are hard to find too, though there are plenty of scoops or flavored kind. It’s been like that for about a month here.

I see better prices on eggs this week, down from the typical $4-$5/dozen.  This week I’m seeing them for $2.50/dozen. I hope this lasts. 
 

 

[Heartstrings]

3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

summer garden tomatoes never did anything. I think we harvested four all summer. Most people in our area had the same problem

Enough people across the country had this problem this year that I’ve heard a bunch of speculation online about bad seeds.  Ranging from theories about seed sellers selling old seeds to conspiracy theories about it being done on purpose by Mon San To to prevent home gardens.  

[Heartstrings]

I’ve started learning how to shop sales at the Albertsons near us instead of just going to Walmart, and researching other cheap places in town to shop. We split a cow with some friends a few months ago and I’m really glad to not be buying that right now.  We’ve switched to store brands for more things. 
My grocery budget has always been high to accommodate the way we like to eat and I blew through it this month by over $1000 with the higher prices.  I’m trying to reign it in somehow.

[Clarita]

14 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

We split a cow with some friends a few months ago and I’m really glad to not be buying that right now.

Yes so glad I bought half a cow in the spring too. The beef prices are staggering!

[Selkie]

Produce departments here are fully stocked, from what I have seen. I’m in the Midwest.

For anyone looking for canned or boxed tomatoes, Vitacost has a good supply of several brands. 

[Farrar]

I'm not seeing any differences. There are specific things that I note are gone - especially specialty things on the organic aisle and in the specialty slots in the freezer case. But I don't even know what they all are. I don't see any staples missing. Well, at Target there is, but that's always been the case at our Target. It looks ransacked because it has such a high volume. I don't think it is anymore, but at one point, it was the highest sales volume Target in the country. Inner city urban area in heavily trafficked stores.

Inflation is definitely driving the bill higher though. Sigh.

[lewelma]

Strangest thing in our grocery store is the price of avocados. It is down to US$0.50 for a large one. This is because there has been a HUGE problem with shipping to NZ due to covid. Big shipping companies dropped us when things got tough in 2020 and 2021, and have decided that they won't be bothered to put us back on the list of locations to visit.  So our exporters cannot export. This means our avocados are stuck locally, and so are CHEAP!! 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

Yes so glad I bought half a cow in the spring too. The beef prices are staggering!

I've found out that our local grocery marks their beef down by half on Fridays to make room for the fresher stuff, so I run over there and grab it first thing in the morning. It's got a sell by date of 2 more days before they mark it down, so I feel comfortable buying and freezing it. Beef prices are awful and our 3 steers won't be ready till next summer.

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

Enough people across the country had this problem this year that I’ve heard a bunch of speculation online about bad seeds.  Ranging from theories about seed sellers selling old seeds to conspiracy theories about it being done on purpose by Mon San To to prevent home gardens.  

Our issue was drought. Even if you water, it's hard to replicate good rains. We had 8 weeks of nothing from June to early August. So my tomatoes did very little.

[Heartstrings]

9 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I've found out that our local grocery marks their beef down by half on Fridays to make room for the fresher stuff, so I run over there and grab it first thing in the morning. It's got a sell by date of 2 more days before they mark it down, so I feel comfortable buying and freezing it. Beef prices are awful and our 3 steers won't be ready till next summer.

I’m trying to get out to the store on different mornings to figure out our local mark down cycles. 

[cjzimmer1]

12 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I’m trying to get out to the store on different mornings to figure out our local mark down cycles. 

My favorite grocery store marks things down in the late afternoon right before their day shift crew goes home.  So between 3-4 PM are the best times to go.  Just something to keep in mind in case you have trouble pinpointing it in the mornings.

[EmilyGF]

The grocery store I shop at is usually out of most kinds of chicken. However, due to certain life circumstances, I shop on Sunday evenings right before closing, and that may be the cause. There is a limit of 2 packs of chicken at a time.

There is plenty of chicken at the more expensive stores, but I avoid them if I can. I am planning to freezer cook this weekend, though, and will need to suck it up and pay more for chicken. Sigh.

Emily

[Carrie12345]

I’ve mostly only had trouble getting some random things on certain sizes… or I’ve adapted to not even noticing anymore!

Prices though… I’m having a hard time meeting what I consider to be a very generous budget.

We do have half a cow coming, but it’s still more than I would normally spend on beef. And we got another freezer for it. So we’re talking long term investment, not cost cutting today.

[Ting Tang]

I just wonder if it is always going to be this way going forward.  I know drought and diseases have caused a lot of this.  According to some, that won't get any better, so....  yeah.   

I got excited when our 60 pack of eggs, which used to be $5-6 came down to $12 after being at $16-17.  Then they went back up to almost $18.  Not sure what they are today.

Candy was insanely high for Halloween. I made little packets of one small chocolate, one smarties, stickers, and tiny erasers. My nieghbors handed out full size candybars.  I am guessing we had 110 trick or treaters.  I can't believe people could afford to do that.  Fortunately, we did not get egged.  I actually made 137 bags, but I told some to take two towards the end, lol.

[Faith-manor]

18 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Same....on all of it.

My summer garden tomatoes never did anything. I think we harvested four all summer. Most people in our area had the same problem. I was really hoping to get more out of the garden and to find more in the stores at an affordable price to can, but it just never came together.  The restaurant store I have access to never stocked 25# boxes like they normally do. We eat a low sodium diet, so a lot of the commercially canned stuff just doesn't work for us. No salt added products have been in very low/intermittent stock all summer, and then this week, it looks like everything else imploded in my area. 

I can swing the hydroponic fresh stuff at the high end markets here if I have to, but I will need to rework our menus and cut back on tomato products overall if the canned no salt option is just gone for the season.

 

My tomatoes were not prolific. When I bought two bushels to can, I had a lot of loss...hard, green, almost calcified spots inside that had to be cut out. I bought each of those bushels from different farms, so I have to wonder if there wasn't some sort of weather/climate/mineral deficiency thing involved. Dh absolutely loaded my raised beds with leaves to compost, and I had put all of my apple feelings and trimmings in the beds before the leaves along with some other vegetable and fruit refuse being careful to not introduce seeds. That will compost all winter. Then I am going to add some more organic compost from my favorite Mennonite farmer. It will have some composted chicken manure in it. Mix and mix. I am hoping that if I do that and then add some tomato food/fertilizer mid way through the season, I will get good tomatoes and a lot of them. I am putting in 15 plants in the hopes of having enough ripe at one time to process 7 pints in a batch. I hate going to all the work to get less than 7 jars since canning is such a pain. But if I don't, I am going to blanch, remove the skins, and then fill quart size freezer bags and freeze. I told dh to start looking for another small, used chest freezer that I could just fill with tomatoes. Then when I get enough accumulated, I can thaw them and make pasta sauce, chili, and barbecue sauce to can. Of course, the best laid plans of mice and men.........

[prairiewindmomma]

Our tomato deficiency at first was weather related…we had several very late frosts which required us to start over repeatedly. We didn’t hit 80F for the first time until July. Then we had our usual no rain from July-late October. We can usually still get good tomatoes in September and October even with late frosts, but this year we had huge green beautiful plants that were late to set fruit (too hot) and then what few fruits we had never really ripened (wildfire smoke/diminished sunlight)?

They weren’t over fed, and I tried stressing them by waiting until they wilted to water late in the season…. None of my usual “get them to ripen” tricks worked. I have some remaining cut vines with tomatoes in the garage—hoping a few more will ripen. 
 

Tomatoes are hard to grow in my climate. But, usually, my tricks work and I can get a good crop. 

[Happy2BaMom]

15 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Enough people across the country had this problem this year that I’ve heard a bunch of speculation online about bad seeds.  Ranging from theories about seed sellers selling old seeds to conspiracy theories about it being done on purpose by Mon San To to prevent home gardens.  

Not directed at you, Heartstrings, but reports like this just get my goat. People will believe anything / blame anyone/thing, rather than look at the fact that we’ve created enormous systems that are hostile to all other forms of life. The climate is doing all sorts of weird sh*t; there’s micro plastics, forever chemicals, & toxic chemicals in every single  form of water that exists; massive droughts fry soil microbial life and massive floods erode soil & soil systems; irrigation waters are full of (fill in the blank) and increasingly salinated,and pollinator populations are collapsing worldwide. but, no, the reason our garden plants are struggling is because *someone else* gave us bad seeds. 

Anything to avoid having to take responsibility or change our massively destructive, convenient-for-us lifestyles. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Happy2BaMom
Bad autocorrect

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Not directed at you, Heartstrings, but reports like this just get my goat. People will believe anything / blame anyone/thing, rather than look at the fact that we’ve created enormous systems that are hostile to all other forms of life. The climate is doing all sorts of weird sh*t; there’s micro plastics, forever chemicals, & toxic chemicals in every single  form of water we have; massive droughts burn soil microbial life and massive floods further erode soil support systems; irrigation waters are full of (fill in the blank) and increasingly salinated) and pollinator populations are collapsing worldwide. but, no, the reason our garden plants are struggling are because *someone else* gave us bad seeds. 

Anything to avoid having to take responsibility or change our massively destructive, convenient-for-us lifestyles. 

100% spot on. We cannot pollute the earth endlessly and still expected it to produce lovely crops of food. 

[Jaybee]

38 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

My tomatoes were not prolific. When I bought two bushels to can, I had a lot of loss...hard, green, almost calcified spots inside that had to be cut out. I bought each of those bushels from different farms, so I have to wonder if there wasn't some sort of weather/climate/mineral deficiency thing involved. Dh absolutely loaded my raised beds with leaves to compost, and I had put all of my apple feelings and trimmings in the beds before the leaves along with some other vegetable and fruit refuse being careful to not introduce seeds. That will compost all winter. Then I am going to add some more organic compost from my favorite Mennonite farmer. It will have some composted chicken manure in it. Mix and mix. I am hoping that if I do that and then add some tomato food/fertilizer mid way through the season, I will get good tomatoes and a lot of them. I am putting in 15 plants in the hopes of having enough ripe at one time to process 7 pints in a batch. I hate going to all the work to get less than 7 jars since canning is such a pain. But if I don't, I am going to blanch, remove the skins, and then fill quart size freezer bags and freeze. I told dh to start looking for another small, used chest freezer that I could just fill with tomatoes. Then when I get enough accumulated, I can thaw them and make pasta sauce, chili, and barbecue sauce to can. Of course, the best laid plans of mice and men.........

Years ago, a lady told me what she did with tomatoes. I tried it and it worked beautifully with the tomatoes from my tiny garden. She washed the tomatoes, cut out the stem areas, dropped them into the blender skin and all, and then froze the results in freezer bags. Works great for soups and other tomato based recipes.

[Clemsondana]

I usually don't buy a ton at the store.  Our garden does different things every year, but I always manage to fill a freezer and we eat accordingly - one year we may have abundant green beans, another year it may be tons of applesauce, but we always have some of everything and lots of whatever went well.  We also buy our beef and pork in bulk, and recently got a bunch of fish from our overstock place, so once we get that repackaged into family-friendly quantities we'll have that.  I buy whatever looks useful at the overstock (Naturally a Deal) and mostly cook with that and whatever meat and produce I have in the freezer.

I haven't noticed a lot of grocery shortages, but I don't know that I would because I often shop when they are restocking and am used to working with whatever I see. What I have noticed is that Trader Joe's has unfilled spaces.  During the worst of the shortages, TJs always had stuff.  And, their prices for things like chicken haven't changed much (although the free range chicken was always more expensive than regular store chicken).  They recently did a store rearrangement so it's taken me a while to figure out what all is different, and they do a good job of filling the space with something (easier in a small store), but there are gaps.  Last week when I asked a stocker if they were about to fill the empty space for gnocci, they checked and said that they wouldn't get more until December.  So, there could be similar things at our regional chain grocery store.  I don't see any big gaps, but there are things that I don't buy at the grocery store since I grow them.  But, our area didn't seem to get hit as hard as some of you with the various shortages over the past few years.  Or maybe I have lower expecataions.  Now that I think about it, I haven't seen Simply Ruffles chips in a few months, but I've just gotten other things or decided that it was a sign that I didn't need chips.  🙂  Prices are definitely up - not as high as what some of you report, but definitely higher.  I recently did a big stock-up at Sam's Club and was shocked at how much it was.  TJs trips are more expensive, too, but I'm buying less so I don't notice as much. 

[HomeAgain]

We can't call this inflation.  A lot of this is dependent on corporate greed.  Any company making record profits during this time should be scrutinized.

Yes, corporate greed has changed our shopping, and I'm seeing the same with others as well.  We are eating more meatless meals around here, putting more leftovers in the freezer..anything to save a bit.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

I got excited when our 60 pack of eggs, which used to be $5-6 came down to $12 after being at $16-17.  Then they went back up to almost $18. 

The conditions under which the 10-ct eggs are produced are horrific and disgusting and should not be permitted.
Ditto for cheap meat.

Edited November 2, 2022 by regentrude

[regentrude]

We had a very hot summer and severe drought, and that has affected crops in my area.
My friend who has been homesteading and gardening for 40 years and usually has an excess of summer produce to share barely grew enough for herself.

It's been so dry, the critters had to eat whatever they could find which made things worse.

 

[Ausmumof3]

14 hours ago, lewelma said:

Strangest thing in our grocery store is the price of avocados. It is down to US$0.50 for a large one. This is because there has been a HUGE problem with shipping to NZ due to covid. Big shipping companies dropped us when things got tough in 2020 and 2021, and have decided that they won't be bothered to put us back on the list of locations to visit.  So our exporters cannot export. This means our avocados are stuck locally, and so are CHEAP!! 

Same here although in the $1range. We are thriving on loads of avocado this year. Also Australian grown nuts are cheaper for some reason.

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

The conditions under which the 10-ct eggs are produced are horrific and disgusting and should not be permitted.
Ditto for cheap meat.

With this I agree. I really cannot stand how livestock is treated in commercial meat production. I am paying $4.00 a dozen for farm fresh from happy chickens. But, I also do recognize that for many folks, it isn't a matter of ethics for them because they lice pay check to pay check, and paying a lot more for eggs or chicken or whatever when feeding hungry children just isn't in the cards. The system here is just nuts. If we had universal healthcare and a decent safety net, then more folks could vote with their money on the ethical/moral issues with food production. And beg nd that, there should be a LOT more regulation. It should simply be illegal to cram 12 chickens into a tiny cage where they can't move foe two year before being sent to the Campbell's soup plant. Ugh!

[regentrude]

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

With this I agree. I really cannot stand how livestock is treated in commercial meat production. I am paying $4.00 a dozen for farm fresh from happy chickens. But, I also do recognize that for many folks, it isn't a matter of ethics for them because they lice pay check to pay check, and paying a lot more for eggs or chicken or whatever when feeding hungry children just isn't in the cards. The system here is just nuts. If we had universal healthcare and a decent safety net, then more folks could vote with their money on the ethical/moral issues with food production. And beg nd that, there should be a LOT more regulation. It should simply be illegal to cram 12 chickens into a tiny cage where they can't move foe two year before being sent to the Campbell's soup plant. Ugh!

Yes. And I totally understand that some folks need cheap foods. But there has to be a way to enforce a more humane raising of animals. And both for animal welfare and for the environment, people need to change their meat consumption. In the US, per capita meat consumption is about 220 lbs per year. 

[cjzimmer1]

I installed drip lines in all my gardens and pots this year so my plants survived the less than usual rainfall quite nicely.  The problem was that the water was targeted and so the critters had trouble finding their usual sources and turned to chewing anything in my garden they good looking for moisture.  So between the squirrels and mice, my tomatoes (and peppers) were just decimated.  I would walk outside and see them sitting in the plants chewing on them.  I had to start picking tomatoes at first blush (and no matter what anyone says I do not find they taste as good as ones that fully ripen on the vine) and even then I was lucky to get 20% of my harvest.

Thankfully I am still working through the overabundance of plain tomatoes that I canned in 2020 so I only needed enough for specialty items like spaghetti sauce and dried tomatoes and while I didn't get as much as I would have liked it will be okay.  

As far as the grocery stores go.  I'm definitely noticing the poor quality/missing lettuce items.  Other produce is completely hit or miss especially this time of year where I'm still working through things we've grown or bought at the produce auctions.  But I'm sure it will be a bit more challenging this winter which is why I'm gearing up my efforts to do some indoor gardening just so we can have some fresh produce if things get really ugly.

[Selkie]

58 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yes. And I totally understand that some folks need cheap foods. But there has to be a way to enforce a more humane raising of animals. And both for animal welfare and for the environment, people need to change their meat consumption. In the US, per capita meat consumption is about 220 lbs per year. 

Not just animal welfare and the environment, but human welfare as well. As the per capita meat consumption has gone up and up and up, so have rates of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, dementia, obesity, autoimmune diseases, many types of cancer - all the so-called diseases of affluence that are linked to animal protein and saturated fat.

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Not directed at you, Heartstrings, but reports like this just get my goat. People will believe anything / blame anyone/thing, rather than look at the fact that we’ve created enormous systems that are hostile to all other forms of life. The climate is doing all sorts of weird sh*t; there’s micro plastics, forever chemicals, & toxic chemicals in every single  form of water that exists; massive droughts fry soil microbial life and massive floods erode soil & soil systems; irrigation waters are full of (fill in the blank) and increasingly salinated,and pollinator populations are collapsing worldwide. but, no, the reason our garden plants are struggling is because *someone else* gave us bad seeds. 

Anything to avoid having to take responsibility or change our massively destructive, convenient-for-us lifestyles. 

I figure if its happening enough for me, with my giant black thumb, to hear enough about it to hear about several different "theories", it must be effecting a LOT of people.  Honestly the climate change, lack of bees and depleted soil makes it even scarier.  I'd rather it be because a supplier had old seeds.  If we're at this point already ....well that's a scary proposition. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Faith-manor]

58 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yes. And I totally understand that some folks need cheap foods. But there has to be a way to enforce a more humane raising of animals. And both for animal welfare and for the environment, people need to change their meat consumption. In the US, per capita meat consumption is about 220 lbs per year. 

Oh, I agree. The whole system is nuts, and the American diet needs to change, for sure. Animal welfare needs to be a BIG deal to everyone. I am just not sure how to make that happen. I suspect though we could make a start by including this in middle and high school education so young adults become better consumers, and by having much better school lunches. Mediterranean diet based is yummy, heavy on vegetables, lighter on meat. This of course means investing in having dietitians and trained chefs/cooks for schools who can present these new food items and combinations in ways that children who have little exposure in the home will find enticing. I would love for it to be a rapid change, but suspect it is going to require one or two generations if we start now, to accomplish it since food culture s and eating traditions are hard to change. Of course, climate change, by necessity, may speed that process up as less choice to continue eating the standard American fare becomes the new norm. My sister has sent me photos of school lunches in France when she was teaching English in middle.school, and I wanted to cry. They were so tantalizing robust. She said her school had culinary trained chefs in charge of the kitchens so the food didn't just loom good, it tasted wonderful.

[Ting Tang]

 

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

The conditions under which the 10-ct eggs are produced are horrific and disgusting and should not be permitted.
Ditto for cheap meat.

I was simply commenting on the tripled price.  I guarantee you that many people are aware of what goes on---they aren't stupid. They try not to think about it.  I'm talking about your average person, just trying to get through life, day by day.   Items that grow in the ground and on trees have also increased in price.  I find it sad.  Some adults are going without food to feed their kids. Personally, I have a lot of homegrown items stocked away in my freezer. I am not allowed to raise chickens where I live, and plus, I am afraid of birds. Sometimes a local farmer does give us eggs.  

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Ting Tang

[regentrude]

41 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Oh, I agree. The whole system is nuts, and the American diet needs to change, for sure. Animal welfare needs to be a BIG deal to everyone. I am just not sure how to make that happen. I suspect though we could make a start by including this in middle and high school education so young adults become better consumers, and by having much better school lunches. 

It is not going to happen because there is no political will and agriculture is powerful lobby that is propped up by generous farm subsidies funded by the taxpayer. Meat producers have been fighting any attempt to improve animal welfare. As long as the price of meat is kept low by the subsidies and the abysmal conditions under which the animals live (and by ignoring the climate effect of large-scale animal raising), folks will not change the way they eat. Only when meat becomes expensive compared to non-meat options will people eat less.  

[Laura Corin]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

 In the US, per capita meat consumption is about 220 lbs per year. 

I found the same figure when I looked but I can't work it out. [Ignore this phrase-For a population of 330 million] that's 2/3rds of a pound of meat a day, more if you take out small children and vegetarians.  Does that seem right?

Edited November 2, 2022 by Laura Corin

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I found the same figure when I looked but I can't work it out. For a population of 330 million that's 2/3rds of a pound of meat a day, more if you take out small children and vegetarians.  Does that seem right?

It has nothing to do with the population size since this is already per capita. 
Yes, it is 0.6 lb (220/365) per person every day, including infants, people on feeding tubes, vegetarians....

Edited November 2, 2022 by regentrude

[KungFuPanda]

9 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I found the same figure when I looked but I can't work it out. For a population of 330 million that's 2/3rds of a pound of meat a day, more if you take out small children and vegetarians.  Does that seem right?

I'm not sure I know anyone who can eat 2/3lb of meat every day.  That seems excessive even for the keto people.

[Laura Corin]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It has nothing to do with the population size since this is already per capita. 
Yes, it is 0.6 lb (220/365) per person every day, including infants, people on feeding tubes, vegetarians....

Thanks - my Covid brain got in the way. I shouldn't have tried to think it through.

[JennyD]

I haven't noticed any shortages (major urban area), and while my grocery bill is markedly higher than it was pre-pandemic it seems to have stabilized.  I do continue to wonder why Trader Joe's prices have risen less than other grocers', at least for the things I buy.

We don't buy much meat; what we do buy is kosher, and kosher meat is always insanely expensive.  Our costs on that have actually declined a bit because we're currently living somewhere where we can buy kosher meat in the store instead of special-ordering it all.  

[Selkie]

23 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I'm not sure I know anyone who can eat 2/3lb of meat every day.  That seems excessive even for the keto people.

Well, the average person eats between 3-5 pounds of food per day, so it's not hard to believe .6 lbs of that is meat. Plenty of Americans eat meat at most or all of their meals.

ETA: Just looked it up and the average American eats 5.46 lbs of food per day.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Selkie

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I'm not sure I know anyone who can eat 2/3lb of meat every day.  That seems excessive even for the keto people.

Ok wait, 2/3 lbs doesn't seem like a ton.  I just cooked 1.5 lbs of roast for 4 people for dinner, that's about 1/3 lb each (.375) for dinner (all pre cooking weight).  Plus 3-5 ounces each of lunch meat for turkey sandwiches for lunch, that's got to be close to 2/3 lb. and today was a normal day.  No one had meat for breakfast today or we would have hit 2/3 lb each for sure.   Where am I going wrong on my thinking here? 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Ting Tang]

People should also consider reducing their consumption of other certain types of foods, not just meat.  We're eating a lot of bad stuff, and we're also not getting the right kind of physical activity, generally-speaking.  

Unless you live in an apartment, anyone can plant a fruit tree in their yard and freeze/can fruit, too.  Lots of ways to be frugal and healthier.  But in general, I think a lot of people are busy and stressed out.  They can't even think about doing that.  So yes, the expensive eggs still bug me, lol.   I've been seeing a lot of hunger billboards go up around me lately. 😞

 

[Corraleno]

I've known people who ate way more than 2/3 lb of meat per day — two of them were diagnosed with colon cancer in their 40s and one had his first heart attack in his early 50s. However, the figure of 225 lbs/yr per person refers to "access" rather than measured consumption. Like, that's how much meat is produced and available per person; some will eat a lot more, some will eat a lot less, and I'm guessing that a pretty obscene amount also goes to waste.

[regentrude]

20 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 However, the figure of 225 lbs/yr per person refers to "access" rather than measured consumption. 

I have found several sources who specifically list this as consumption rather than production/access, for example (there's lots more)

https://farmdocdaily.illinois.edu/2021/05/an-overview-of-meat-consumption-in-the-united-states.html
https://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/about-the-industry/statistics/per-capita-consumption-of-poultry-and-livestock-1965-to-estimated-2012-in-pounds/

Edited November 3, 2022 by regentrude

[Corraleno]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I have found sources who specifically list this as consumption rather than production/access
https://farmdocdaily.illinois.edu/2021/05/an-overview-of-meat-consumption-in-the-united-states.html
https://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/about-the-industry/statistics/per-capita-consumption-of-poultry-and-livestock-1965-to-estimated-2012-in-pounds/

This is directly from the USDA website; the headline says "consumption," but the text specifies that this really refers to access:

"While it is often used as a proxy measure for consumption, per capita meat disappearance is a measure of the supply available for use in domestic markets, including fresh and processed meat sold through grocery stores and used in restaurants.... The latest USDA forecast indicates that in 2022, U.S. consumers will have access to 224.6 pounds of red meat and poultry on a per capita retail weight basis." 

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=103767