colleges to apply to - CS - are there ones ds should add?

[EmilyGF]

Hi all,

DS17 continues to modify his college list; for example, today he asked if he should consider RIT and asked what I thought of Macalester. 

DS is an excellent candidate, IMO. He's a 4.0 student, has five 5s on APs so far, as well as two 4s. He went to state Science Fair as a sophomore and won $300 and has been on the math team for four years, advancing as an individual every year. He accompanies the school choir on piano and teaches piano lessons. He took Calculus as a sophomore at AoPS and got an A+, finished the CS APs last year and is taking two CS classes at a college this year. He took multi-variable calculus last year and taught himself R over the summer to analyze some eBird data. He loves birding and has an incredibly active eBird account. He is an Eagle Scout. 

He wants to study CS so he can go into Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence. His list of schools so far includes MIT, University of Illinois (1st choice CS, safety Math), Carnegie Mellon, and Cornell (that eBird connection makes him really interested in it). We are in-state for U of I.

Any ideas of places that he should be looking into that I should bring up to him? 

Thanks,

Emily

[Farrar]

That list doesn't have any safeties or targets so far. UIUC's computer science acceptance rate is absurdly low. I believe it was less than 10% last year. He should have some targets and safeties that include the major that he's actually most interested in.

So... yes. He should add several schools in my opinion. He's got his reaches. He needs targets/matches and safeties.

ETA: Adding that on the surface he does sound like he could be a competitive candidate for those reach schools so hopefully if these are his top picks, he'll get lucky. But they'll all turn away other similarly competitive candidates. He really, really needs some schools he can count on a little more that also offer CS. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Farrar

[kokotg]

Well, if he's interested in Macalester, I have a kid who's a senior math major there (with a data science minor) 🙂 . He has a good friend who's a CS major, so I can ask him more if you'd like, but my impression is that, as a pure math kid himself, he thinks the department is stronger on the applied math/CS side of things. Mac would be...not really a safety for anyone exactly, but a relatively safe bet for him it sounds like. Of course, it's a LAC, which makes for a very different experience from somewhere like MIT. My kid has ended up pretty much doing all math-y stuff; in retrospect he maybe should have looked more closely at places that are more set up for doing math, math, and more math. He hasn't really taken full advantage of the whole liberal arts experience thing, although he has gotten the benefits of a small college--working closely with professors, smaller classes, getting TA experience, all that sort of thing. 

[Momto6inIN]

Purdue is a very well respected program for CS (my oldest DS got his degree in CS from there!) and not quite as competitive as U of I. I don't know if it would qualify as a target school like Farrar says, but it's definitely not a safety school.

[EKS]

How about WPI?

[bibiche]

@EmilyGF Your son sounds well-qualified and I hope he gets in everywhere he applies, but I agree with Farrar that he needs safeties (although IIRC he might be a fac brat, so have a safety in that…?).

Last year was brutal, and because many schools over-admitted it’s entirely possible that this year will be even worse. My nephew with crazy good stats (even more impressive than your son’s and that is saying something because his look great!) was rejected or waitlisted by a number of schools on your list, among others. He eventually was admitted to MIT, but otherwise it was a bloodbath. 

[MamaSprout]

Rose Hulman

[MamaSprout]

1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

Purdue is a very well respected program for CS (my oldest DS got his degree in CS from there!) and not quite as competitive as U of I. I don't know if it would qualify as a target school like Farrar says, but it's definitely not a safety school.

Purdue Admitted Student Day for Engineering they said around 32% for Engineering and around 29% for CS.

[Lori D.]

"30 Best Computer Science Schools with High Acceptance Rates" -- maybe some ideas from this list might work for you?

And -- congrats on your DS's great achievements and high academics! BEST of luck as you search for schools that would be good matches and safeties!

[EmilyGF]

@Farrar, good point about the CS/Math discrepancy. DS17 reminds me that the UIUC alternative is "CS + Math", which is a CS alternative within the Arts and Sciences college. He says he's actually on the fence between applied math and CS, interest-wise. He also reminded me that he's applying early to UIUC and MIT, and thus will know if UIUC is a possibility before completing any other applications. 

Thanks, @MamaSprout, for the reminder about Rose Hulman. My sister almost went there and that might be an interesting place for DS.  Not sure if it'd be a good fit since he's always lived in a city and moving to the country might shock the system. It might also be the change he's looking for.

@bibiche, you are right about the faculty part, but DS is not applying to the school we are tied to (or he hasn't told me if he is). 

I think I know in *theory* how tough college admissions are, but they don't seem so from this end in some ways. For example, four kids from my son's math team went to MIT this year. Also, I work with kids at a top-10 college, and some of them must be much better on paper than in reality. 😉 (might delete this later)

Emily

 

 

[Dmmetler]

UCF is extremely strong in CS and has good scholarships. 

[Malam]

UT Austin, UIUC, University of Washington, and University of Massachusetts are great public Ivies for CS. (Naturally, their CS programs are highly selective, much more so than the rest of the school)

If your ds is interested in research, check out https://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp&ir&us. As you can see, UIUC is one of the top universities in terms of research output - depending on what you select it can outrank MIT and Stanford (again, in terms of research). You're very very lucky to have it as an instate option.

If you're looking for safeties, might as well start with schools that are likely to give significant merit aid: https://blog.prepscholar.com/guaranteed-scholarships-based-on-sat-act-scores. The great thing about Math and CS at less-selective public universities is that they tend to be more flexible with placement into graduate classes and advanced standing/credit by exam, even when that isn't mentioned. Even at UMass Lowell, a somewhat selective public uni, program, I had math and cs professors agree to placement by exam. Of course, this is something you should ask before attending, and possibly before applying.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Malam

[MamaSprout]

10 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

 

Thanks, @MamaSprout, for the reminder about Rose Hulman. My sister almost went there and that might be an interesting place for DS.  Not sure if it'd be a good fit since he's always lived in a city and moving to the country might shock the system. It might also be the change he's looking for.

 

 

This made me laugh. Terre Haute isn't Chicago, but it is, by definition, a city. The campus is definitely on the edge in something of a suburban area, but students are 6 minutes from most anything they need.

I used to live close to NYC, so I get what you mean- and also used to live in a county with less than a dozen stoplights. That's in the country.

Edited September 19, 2022 by MamaSprout

[JanetC]

Have you run net price calculators? In addition to admissions matches, you need to be sure you have financial matches.

ETA: Those suggesting out of state public universities: those are great schools, but can be very expensive to attend out of state.  I don't understand anyone paying out-of-state tuition for a state U when it will cost the family the same as a private university: The private Us will offer more opportunities for personal instruction and less competition for leadership positions, etc.

Edited September 19, 2022 by JanetC

[Guest]

Is your child homeschooled or in a brick and mortar school?

Other potentials to consider — Cal Poly SLO, UNC, UVA

[Farrar]

41 minutes ago, WTM said:

Is your child homeschooled or in a brick and mortar school?

Other potentials to consider — Cal Poly SLO, UNC, UVA

This student needs more targets and safeties. These would all be reaches.

[JazzyMom]

What about UT Dallas?  I googled and it claims to be ranked top 50 for CS and top 5 for AI.

With your son’s stats, it should be a safety, and he could probably get a great deal of scholarship money. 

[crazyforlatin]

1 hour ago, WTM said:

Is your child homeschooled or in a brick and mortar school?

Other potentials to consider — Cal Poly SLO, UNC, UVA

CalPoly is not a target from what I’ve seen here in California. For Dd who is not applying to calpoly as CS but just a science major would be a reach. 

[Roadrunner]

22 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

CalPoly is not a target from what I’ve seen here in California. For Dd who is not applying to calpoly as CS but just a science major would be a reach. 

Really? My son’s entire soccer team got into Cal Poly and those were very average kids. Super average. Out of CA public school SLO is not a reach. I just wonder if it’s much harder from your area and much easier out of my rural area. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Roadrunner

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, JanetC said:

Have you run net price calculators? In addition to admissions matches, you need to be sure you have financial matches.

ETA: Those suggesting out of state public universities: those are great schools, but can be very expensive to attend out of state.  I don't understand anyone paying out-of-state tuition for a state U when it will cost the family the same as a private university: The private Us will offer more opportunities for personal instruction and less competition for leadership positions, etc.

 

There is absolutely no guarantee that private schools (or public ivies) with high level CS programs will offer any form of scholarships or merit aid unless the school as a whole has automatic merit because they can fill their entire CS and Engineering programs with students with 4.0+ GPAs, 780+ Math SAT scores, and excellent extracurriculars. Often your best bet are state U's that have automatic scholarships for test scores, so that IF you get into the program, you're guaranteed the money.  If you're willing to go to the Southern USA, there are some good options at state U's that have strong programs and a lot of good opportunities for research, co-op, or work experience. (Alabama and Florida tend to be worth checking out, especially)

 

I mentioned UCF because if you're a National Merit scholar, it's essentially free to go there. DH is a UCF CS/Math grad and comments that his degree is worth more every year because they were pretty much unknown when he went there, and now they're regularly mentioned in the same circles as the top private tech U's. 

[crazyforlatin]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Really? My son’s entire soccer team got into Cal Poly and those were very average kids. Super average. Out of CA public school SLO is not a reach. I just wonder if it’s much harder from your area and much easier out of my rural area. 

That's not bad at all! But maybe their majors were not CS/engineering? Though they have other majors that are highly impacted as well. Regional high schools have priority, though I know you are not there, so I don't understand it unless there's a rural preference. For our area I think they get applications that are very similar in activities and race (is that really considered?) but that's what was told to Dd. Her ethnicity though mixed is too common in our area. Calpoly can be target school if we choose a major that is tied to an activity so for her it would be Philosophy (no classics) or a foreign language.

[Farrar]

I think this whole "but so and so is lame and they got into such and such" is the sort of thing that bites parents in the rear. You don't know those kid's whole academic histories or activities or how they present to colleges. There are so many factors at play in admissions and at these large schools, major choice is a huge one.

I think you also cannot listen to people from the state tell you that a school isn't "that hard" to get into. Like, I'm sure there are North Carolinians who think Chapel Hill isn't "that hard" to get into. Because in state it has an acceptance rate that's still pretty tough, but is usually 4 or 5 times greater than out of state.

[catz]

So both my DH and I have CS backgrounds.  He still regularly hires at a large east coast software company, he's fairly high up the corporate ladder these days.  And my oldest kid is a BS CS major at a well regarded public university OOS w/scholarship (he's also a music major).  He was also a very high stat, academically minded student. 

If you haven't run your NPC's on the school's he is applying to, that is definitely a thing to do.  STEM degrees are super competitive, and so at many of these reachy schools, you really won't get merit.  Plenty don't do merit at all anyway.  Consider schools where you'll be a unique applicant - at least geographically if nothing else. 

If you're comparing LACs and BS programs at tech schools, I would take the time to compare course work and placement outcomes side by side.  There can be advantages and disadvantages to each of these options and they sometimes can tend toward different placement outcomes if we're talking about an undergrad degree.  If he's really interested in being able to explore AI as an undergrad, a bigger BS program may be a better fit than an LAC where you will be doing less tech coursework.  

At the end of the day, I think there are tons of great options for for CS that will have great outcomes.  With those reaches on your list, I'd focus on some safeties that are both affordable that he can love.  Keep in mind that many flagship tech programs will have ACT scores in the 28-30+ range,   Our state flagship's engineering school act 50% are in the 30-34 range and this is a sleeper of a school, no one ever talks about it.  But ambitious kids launch from there to every reachy grad school and career option.  A friend of my kid went there for the price, launched to a highly competitive grad program on the west coast and is now launching to a super competitive flashy tech job.  Hopefully your flagship will come through for you.  

 

[Kassia]

5 hours ago, JazzyMom said:

What about UT Dallas?  I googled and it claims to be ranked top 50 for CS and top 5 for AI.

With your son’s stats, it should be a safety, and he could probably get a great deal of scholarship money. 

My dd attends there on a NM scholarship.  Definitely a safety but they are getting stingier with scholarship money.  

I don't know anything about $$ or the CS dept. but my friend's ds is really into birding and is happy at MSU.  

 

[Roadrunner]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

I think this whole "but so and so is lame and they got into such and such" is the sort of thing that bites parents in the rear. You don't know those kid's whole academic histories or activities or how they present to colleges. There are so many factors at play in admissions and at these large schools, major choice is a huge one.

I think you also cannot listen to people from the state tell you that a school isn't "that hard" to get into. Like, I'm sure there are North Carolinians who think Chapel Hill isn't "that hard" to get into. Because in state it has an acceptance rate that's still pretty tough, but is usually 4 or 5 times greater than out of state.

Actually I know many of those kids as I know my own. Very close to family. All public schooled kids. CA CSU system (Cal Poly belongs to it) is mostly a game of GPA. They are very straightforward with what they want. For a kid who completed all they require and has top grades, they are not hard to crack. Our local high schools sends so many kids to SLO I lost count, every year. Most haven’t taken anything beyond Calculus AB. It’s hard to deal with a system with homeschool transcript, but OP’s kid is in PS I believe. 

yes, I don’t know how out of state plays out for SLO. I know for some schools in CA  it’s an advantage. I don’t know about SLO, but it’s worth checking, and for a kid with OP’s stats, it would not be an issue and I would absolutely throw in an application.  

 

Also I want to point out for those out of state who are applying to CA schools that here honors courses are also weighted at 5.0 scale, so CA GPAs tend to be higher. My freshman’s GPA is over 4.7 just to give you a perspective. I know the rest of the country doesn’t grant an entire point to honors or places majority of kids in honors courses so schools might look e yea competitive here on GPA basis. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Roadrunner

[easypeasy]

On 9/18/2022 at 8:25 PM, EmilyGF said:

I think I know in *theory* how tough college admissions are, but they don't seem so from this end in some ways. For example, four kids from my son's math team went to MIT this year. Also, I work with kids at a top-10 college, and some of them must be much better on paper than in reality. 😉 (might delete this later)

Emily

If this is your first student (I believe he is?) I could see how it might not seem so competitive from the seat you're currently sitting in. With his resume, he may very well get into every single school you listed, and I certainly hope that he does! Or he might not. He has done a lot of things, but so have the other CS applicants. They're all on math teams. They're all taking APs. They're all playing an instrument and/or a sport. They all volunteer and probably have leadership positions as well. That's just how it is right now for competitive programs, which is why one well-qualified kid will get in and ten will be turned away.

You just don't want to "rest on pretty" and risk having it be your kid who gets "no" from all of his schools. I've seen it happen more than once and it's gut wrenching to watch a smart kid scrambling to apply last-minute to schools after several early rejections and waitlists.

Aim for the list he currently has. But CYA and send in a couple less-competitive schools that would be a solid match - just in case. 🙂 And, hopefully, he won't need them! 🙂  Another plus is that those "yesses" from less-competitive programs are incredibly satisfying while you wait to hear back from the big ones.

Best of luck!

[MamaSprout]

3 hours ago, easypeasy said:

 

You just don't want to "rest on pretty" and risk having it be your kid who gets "no" from all of his schools. I've seen it happen more than once and it's gut wrenching to watch a smart kid scrambling to apply last-minute to schools after several early rejections and waitlists.

Yep. I'm faculty at one of the schools where they end up when our state flagship waitlists...then rejects them. I'd say that's half of our CS kids. The other half are there to play D3 sports.

I've got a kid in one of my classes right now who was waitlisted at Havard until the last minute and several who were turned down at big state schools. 

[EmilyGF]

So, will talk with ds17 about applying to DH's university, which should be an easier acceptance given what I've seen of other faculty kids.

He'll also look into places that give automatic National Merit money. I think he'll only apply to one such place, since they usually only give the money to students who listed their school as their first choice. 

Finally, he says he is totally happy to be an Applied Math major at UIUC. He's been talking with Machine Learning/AI types who have told him that Applied Math is almost a better choice than CS for his field. And it is the Engineering School, not the Arts and Sciences school, that's a hard lift at UIUC. He's got other exceptional math on his resume besides what I listed and took some abstract college math classes this summer. It was during the summer math that he solidified his desire to be more math-oriented as opposed to more applied. 

Emily

[Malam]

2 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

He's been talking with Machine Learning/AI types who have told him that Applied Math is almost a better choice than CS for his field.

This is very very true. There's a new field of study called Geometric Deep Learning, which uses math like group theory and differential geometry to unify many of the different deep learning architectures out there. If he wants to go to graduate school and then eventually industry, it would help to whet his teeth with something like kaggle, fast.ai, as neither applied math BS nor a computer science BS will hone real life data science skills the way these sites will 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZB1hIJ4u8

https://geometricdeeplearning.com/

 

This may or may not interest him: http://collegelists.pbworks.com/w/page/16119350/3-2 Engineering. You can attend a liberal arts college for 3 years, then transfer to a large selective institution for 2 years, after which you will get a bachelors from both universities. Done well, you can get individual attention and research opportunities via REUs at a LAC, and then more research opportunities at the transfer institution. Ohio Wesleyan has a (selective) agreement with Caltech, and "guaranteed" (deterministic) agreements with CWRU, WUSTL, and RPI.. Many of these universities have a Computer Science major in their engineering school.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Malam

[mjbucks1]

Like others have said, you do need more targets and safeties.  I would add Case Western (around a 25-20% admit rate), but run the net price calculator to make sure you can afford it.  Rose Hulman would also be a great fit (again, run the NPC)

I would also add University of Alabama as a safety.  My oldest went to school there on their NMF scholarship and was a CS major (and also earned an MBA under a special program .  They also have a Randall Research Scholars program that is highly competitive (they accept around 40 students/year), but this might be a really good fit.  They give great merit for high tests scores.  Our ds now works for a major international company as a software developer. 

 

[easypeasy]

Definitely check out Alabama, OP, as mjbucks1 suggested! We have a friend whose kid is going there right now and another who graduated in cs and has a fantastic job that he loves that he got right out of school. 
Their competitive programs for research and such are excellent, from what I have heard. There seems to be an abundance of opportunity there for a bargain price (more to go toward grad school!). 

[Frances]

On 9/18/2022 at 6:25 PM, EmilyGF said:

Also, I work with kids at a top-10 college, and some of them must be much better on paper than in reality. 😉 (might delete this later)

Emily

 

 

When I was a grad student at an Ivy, I definitely had several undergrads in the algebra based Statistics classes I TA’d over the years that didn’t even seem prepared for college in general, let alone a top ranked one.

[Frances]

I know several CS grads from Oregon State University that have gone on to work for the various big name tech companies on the west coast. It would likely be a safety for your son, although I know nothing about financial/merit aid for out of state students.

[*LC]

On 9/18/2022 at 9:25 PM, EmilyGF said:

@Farrar, good point about the CS/Math discrepancy. DS17 reminds me that the UIUC alternative is "CS + Math", which is a CS alternative within the Arts and Sciences college. He says he's actually on the fence between applied math and CS, interest-wise. He also reminded me that he's applying early to UIUC and MIT, and thus will know if UIUC is a possibility before completing any other applications. 

Thanks, @MamaSprout, for the reminder about Rose Hulman. My sister almost went there and that might be an interesting place for DS.  Not sure if it'd be a good fit since he's always lived in a city and moving to the country might shock the system. It might also be the change he's looking for.

@bibiche, you are right about the faculty part, but DS is not applying to the school we are tied to (or he hasn't told me if he is). 

I think I know in *theory* how tough college admissions are, but they don't seem so from this end in some ways. For example, four kids from my son's math team went to MIT this year. Also, I work with kids at a top-10 college, and some of them must be much better on paper than in reality. 😉 (might delete this later)

Emily

 

 

 

 

On 9/18/2022 at 2:37 PM, EmilyGF said:

Hi all,

DS17 continues to modify his college list; for example, today he asked if he should consider RIT and asked what I thought of Macalester. 

DS is an excellent candidate, IMO. He's a 4.0 student, has five 5s on APs so far, as well as two 4s. He went to state Science Fair as a sophomore and won $300 and has been on the math team for four years, advancing as an individual every year. He accompanies the school choir on piano and teaches piano lessons. He took Calculus as a sophomore at AoPS and got an A+, finished the CS APs last year and is taking two CS classes at a college this year. He took multi-variable calculus last year and taught himself R over the summer to analyze some eBird data. He loves birding and has an incredibly active eBird account. He is an Eagle Scout. 

He wants to study CS so he can go into Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence. …

You have received great advice in this thread, so I’m only going to address a few things you or others have said. 

I’m curious if the 4 accepted to MIT were the only ones from math team that applied there. If not, was there anything that made that student’s application less strong than the others? If not, that is why everyone is saying you son needs safety schools. 

I know some schools only consider applicants who apply by an early date for NMF/merit scholarships. I looked at the UIUC website and it’s early acceptance date is after some of the deadlines I saw for these scholarships when my kids were applying. (I doubt the dates are later this year, but I have no one applying.)

Your son has a great background. RIT would work as a safety for him, as their website says they accept almost 75 percent of applicants.

Rose Hulman would be a safety as it accepts 76 percent of applicants. One of mine had the opportunity to apply for free there and was accepted, however, attending would have cost double our EFC. So. If he’s interested, learn from our mistake and visit or show interest in some way. 

Someone mentioned WPI. I don’t know what exactly constitutes a safety but its acceptance rate is 60-70 percent depending on type of application according to their website.

 

On 9/20/2022 at 8:59 AM, EmilyGF said:

So, will talk with ds17 about applying to DH's university, which should be an easier acceptance given what I've seen of other faculty kids.

He'll also look into places that give automatic National Merit money. I think he'll only apply to one such place, since they usually only give the money to students who listed their school as their first choice. 

Finally, he says he is totally happy to be an Applied Math major at UIUC. He's been talking with Machine Learning/AI types who have told him that Applied Math is almost a better choice than CS for his field. And it is the Engineering School, not the Arts and Sciences school, that's a hard lift at UIUC. He's got other exceptional math on his resume besides what I listed and took some abstract college math classes this summer. It was during the summer math that he solidified his desire to be more math-oriented as opposed to more applied. 

Unless something has changed in the last couple of years, students can apply to more than one school that offer NM scholarships, however, the student must name/select 1 school by a certain date later in the process to receive the NMF scholarship.  
 

Some mentioned Alabama and it would be a safety since it accepts 79 percent. I think I read an article here in the past about a large  number of students from Illinois going there. I can’t find a recent article, but the Alabama website says 58 percent of its students come from out of state.

“Of the 38,645 undergraduate, professional and graduate students enrolled at UA in the fall semester of 2022,

• 42.1% come from Alabama
• 57.9% come from elsewhere in the United States and 88 foreign countries”

[MamaSprout]

On 9/24/2022 at 12:05 AM, *LC said:

.

Rose Hulman would be a safety as it accepts 76 percent of applicants. One of mine had the opportunity to apply for free there and was accepted, however, attending would have cost double our EFC. So. If he’s interested, learn from our mistake and visit or show interest in some way. 
 

ETA: Rose accepted 61% for the incoming class (2026). I'm not sure where 76% came from, but I think it was lower than that last year, as well. <shrug>

The calculator on Rose's website is pretty accurate. Rose's "interest" scholarships come in form of having attended their camps/ programs (dd has two of those scholarships, as well as two outside private scholarships.) It's pretty transparent. I think they give less than 5? full rides each year. (Noblitt Scholars- definitely use the RH application if that's something dc is interested in- That's a totally made-up number, but I'm pretty sure it is single digits). They have some scholarships for groups underrepresented on campus, and those stack with other aid.

Rose accepts anyone who is qualified to make it through their programs. It's a point of pride, actually. They can do that because their yield is so low (small city, very narrow degree options, really hard academic programs, and it's rarely anyone's best financial option). 

As the Ivies have become more selective their yield has gone up. I don't think they are going to be able to continue accepting everyone who is qualified. Juniors and Seniors are strongly encouraged to live off campus at this point. This year's incoming class had kids from something like 25 countries and 40 states.

My kid is pretty resilient and would probably bloom wherever she was planted, but now that she's there, it is absolutely the right community for her. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by MamaSprout

[crazyforlatin]

Dd's friend is at RIT and seems very happy there. He applied as ED, and I think finances is not an issue for his parents. He is majoring in CS with a concentration in security though that might change since he's only a freshman. They have so many interesting majors! 

[AEC]

sorry for the late reply, here.

For context, I have a BS CS, have worked in both startups and big-tech for 25 hears, and regularly hire and interview both new-grads and experienced CS folks. A few thoughts...

- when starting out, where you go to school matters more than it probably should. This will be especially true if/when hiring tightens up. It's tough to get through the weeding out process at medium and larger tech co's as a NCG if you aren't coming from a known university that they hire from. Same is true for the internship opportunities - which DC should definitely, absolutely, plan to take advantage of once they get to that point.

- ML/AI is especially math heavy. And the teams on the forefront of that tend to be, IME, a bit 'elitist' about academic background - so here again, location matters more than it probably should.

- always, always consider cost of attending. That said, if there was a field where it'd be worth, IMO, taking on 40k of student debt to attend a top-10 university vs the unknown local U, this is probably it. For reference, summer internships at big tech for juniors (and sometimes sophomores) may roughly 30k for the summer and often end with a job offer for post-graduation.

-IME, the 'BA in Math with CS focus' is not an equivalent degree to a BS in CS. It's a very solid option, but not the same.

You mentioned Illinois was local to you. Some sort-of nearby Universities you might consider that are widely thought of as having top CS departments include:

- Wisconsin (UW Madison)

- Northwestern

- Michigan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malam]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:57 PM, AEC said:

ML/AI is especially math heavy. And the teams on the forefront of that tend to be, IME, a bit 'elitist' about academic background - so here again, location matters more than it probably should

Mainly because places like OpenAI and MAANG's AI divisions looking at primarily at PhDs, and who you get your PhD under really does matter a lot more compared to where you did your undergrad. (generally, the later the selection process, the more predictive it is of long-term success). But I don't think EmilyGF's son should necessarily go for the "brand name" for undergrad, so long as he can get the right research experiences wherever he goes

[EmilyGF]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:34 PM, crazyforlatin said:

Dd's friend is at RIT and seems very happy there. He applied as ED, and I think finances is not an issue for his parents. He is majoring in CS with a concentration in security though that might change since he's only a freshman. They have so many interesting majors! 

So, we just got a big magazine in the mail from RIT and it totally turned my son off! He was planning to apply because they had offered him a waived application fee, but now he's changed his mind. 

The long, glossy magazine highlighted student life and told him absolutely nothing about academics. It didn't even have anything about tech or engineering. He said, "I want to go to school with kids who are interested in what they are studying." 

[crazyforlatin]

1 hour ago, EmilyGF said:

So, we just got a big magazine in the mail from RIT and it totally turned my son off! He was planning to apply because they had offered him a waived application fee, but now he's changed his mind. 

The long, glossy magazine highlighted student life and told him absolutely nothing about academics. It didn't even have anything about tech or engineering. He said, "I want to go to school with kids who are interested in what they are studying." 

Dd just interviewed with them. We’ve gotten a lot of mail from them. If you attend the webinars they were actually quite impressive. 

[Frances]

On 10/15/2022 at 12:56 PM, Malam said:

Mainly because places like OpenAI and MAANG's AI divisions looking at primarily at PhDs, and who you get your PhD under really does matter a lot more compared to where you did your undergrad. (generally, the later the selection process, the more predictive it is of long-term success). But I don't think EmilyGF's son should necessarily go for the "brand name" for undergrad, so long as he can get the right research experiences wherever he goes

I agree. I know someone who is getting a PhD in a top AI program and he went to the local state U for undergrad while living at home and then did a master’s program at another state U that combined classes and an internship. I’m not sure exactly what these degrees were in, but I know they were both STEM and not computer science. Neither of these state Us were the one in the state actually known for computer science, engineering, etc. His internship led to a job at Intel where he eventually transferred to the AI group from something very unrelated. Then after a few years in the AI group, he applied for PhD programs and got several fully funded offers from top schools.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Frances

[EmilyGF]

3 hours ago, Malam said:

Mainly because places like OpenAI and MAANG's AI divisions looking at primarily at PhDs, and who you get your PhD under really does matter a lot more compared to where you did your undergrad. (generally, the later the selection process, the more predictive it is of long-term success). But I don't think EmilyGF's son should necessarily go for the "brand name" for undergrad, so long as he can get the right research experiences wherever he goes

He's not committed enough to AI to commit to a PhD at this point. He wants a degree that could lead that way OR to industry straight out of school.

[matrips]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:25 PM, Dmmetler said:

 

There is absolutely no guarantee that private schools (or public ivies) with high level CS programs will offer any form of scholarships or merit aid unless the school as a whole has automatic merit because they can fill their entire CS and Engineering programs with students with 4.0+ GPAs, 780+ Math SAT scores, and excellent extracurriculars. Often your best bet are state U's that have automatic scholarships for test scores, so that IF you get into the program, you're guaranteed the money.  If you're willing to go to the Southern USA, there are some good options at state U's that have strong programs and a lot of good opportunities for research, co-op, or work experience. (Alabama and Florida tend to be worth checking out, especially)

 

I mentioned UCF because if you're a National Merit scholar, it's essentially free to go there. DH is a UCF CS/Math grad and comments that his degree is worth more every year because they were pretty much unknown when he went there, and now they're regularly mentioned in the same circles as the top private tech U's. 

Do you or your dh still have ties to UCF and it’s CS dept?  My kids are Florida NMSF and looking there.

[Library Momma]

On 10/15/2022 at 4:57 PM, EmilyGF said:

So, we just got a big magazine in the mail from RIT and it totally turned my son off! He was planning to apply because they had offered him a waived application fee, but now he's changed his mind. 

The long, glossy magazine highlighted student life and told him absolutely nothing about academics. It didn't even have anything about tech or engineering. He said, "I want to go to school with kids who are interested in what they are studying." 

I just want to say that my son attends RIT and we just returned from parents weekend.  That sentiment couldn't be further from the truth, I was astounded how we were surrounded by kids roaming the halls of the academic buildings with their parents passionately explaining complex projects and concepts to their parents.  We were even joking that most of the parents probably had no idea what they were talking about.   We watched a number of academic presentations with students showing of the machines and technology they use.  RIT, like many schools bombard you with mailings so student life mailing would be about exactly that.  You will see academic specific mailings, mailings about makers spaces, housing etc.

 

[Roadrunner]

We get so much college mail, it’s ridiculous. My son is also feeling really turned off by silly, non academic brochures that try to talk to him as if he is in Kinder (his words). And I will say almost all colleges have been guilty of this from the tippy tops to the “regular” ones. We just put all college mail straight into recycling now. I don’t know what those marketing people are thinking really. 

[crazyforlatin]

And I hate it when Yale and Harvard think we’re so gullible to apply. I’m not contributing to their 99% rejection rate.

[crazyforlatin]

3 hours ago, Library Momma said:

I just want to say that my son attends RIT and we just returned from parents weekend.  That sentiment couldn't be further from the truth, I was astounded how we were surrounded by kids roaming the halls of the academic buildings with their parents passionately explaining complex projects and concepts to their parents.  We were even joking that most of the parents probably had no idea what they were talking about.   We watched a number of academic presentations with students showing of the machines and technology they use.  RIT, like many schools bombard you with mailings so student life mailing would be about exactly that.  You will see academic specific mailings, mailings about makers spaces, housing etc.

 

It really does sound like a great school! DD’s friend is attending as a freshman and is loving it. I would enjoy walking underground between buildings. But the tunnels don’t go into the academic buildings right?

[MamaSprout]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

We get so much college mail, it’s ridiculous. My son is also feeling really turned off by silly, non academic brochures that try to talk to him as if he is in Kinder (his words). And I will say almost all colleges have been guilty of this from the tippy tops to the “regular” ones. We just put all college mail straight into recycling now. I don’t know what those marketing people are thinking really. 

We have an interesting experiment at our house. Dd had three College Board accounts. Fortunately, she never checked "the box" that prompts the avalanche, but she sometimes gets various mail from the same school on the same day. I can see what was targeted and what was just a general mailing. 

[Roadrunner]

43 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

We have an interesting experiment at our house. Dd had three College Board accounts. Fortunately, she never checked "the box" that prompts the avalanche, but she sometimes gets various mail from the same school on the same day. I can see what was targeted and what was just a general mailing. 

We checked the box hoping it was going to expose DS to different schools and maybe ignite some interest in them. I couldn’t have been more wrong about that. 🤣

Edited October 17, 2022 by Roadrunner

[EmilyGF]

2 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

And I hate it when Yale and Harvard think we’re so gullible to apply. I’m not contributing to their 99% rejection rate.

I can't believe how much mail Yale sends. Besides the regular brochures, postcards, etc, they sent a book about the school. Bizarre.