Dealing with the school vent

[HomeAgain]

How do you all do it and not lose your ever loving mind???

We've been trying to get ds in an appropriate math class.  Orientation is tomorrow and they have this kid in remedial math instead of where he belongs.  We've been told

June: Yes, absolutely we can do that!

August: We can do it after school starts

Last week: We can definitely change it to Algebra 1, let me get right on that.

Today: We can't do that at all.

The latest reasoning is that he will have "missed 7th grade skills like graphing" if he (repeats) algebra 1 at the school.

HE WILL HAVE MISSED GRAPHING.

This is the reasoning.  I'm so done.  We may be homeschooling again next year and I am so ticked off about that.

I just don't know what to say anymore.  They have his files.  They claim not to have his files.  Nobody knows what's going on.  Meanwhile, he's supposed to go to orientation tomorrow and not have a schedule.   ARGGGHHH!

Edited August 15, 2022 by HomeAgain

[Ali in OR]

At my school, schedules do get changed a lot in the first week. Anything less than Alg 1 is remedial, and I can say as an Alg 1 teacher that there are many, many students in there missing some middle school and even elementary skills (no one knows fractions anymore). We will cover graphing, and while we really want them to already know how to plot a point, we will start there. As a parent, absolutely push that he is placed at grade-level (or above, but not below). He should be fine in Alg 1. If counselor doesn't work with you, talk to the principal.

When my kids started public high school coming from homeschooling, they wanted them to take a placement test while I wanted them put in geometry. No one else is required to take a placement test, and it's really not fair to do that after 3 months off of school--they could have told me they needed a placement test when I registered them in May. Anyway, they accepted my word when I told them that I am a math teacher and that they have successfully completed Alg 1 and should be placed in Geometry. And of course they did fine. They said something like, "Oh, that sounds ok since they have support at home" (me being a math teacher). Though I think if it happened now they would make them take the placement test.

[HomeAgain]

2 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

At my school, schedules do get changed a lot in the first week. Anything less than Alg 1 is remedial, and I can say as an Alg 1 teacher that there are many, many students in there missing some middle school and even elementary skills (no one knows fractions anymore). We will cover graphing, and while we really want them to already know how to plot a point, we will start there. As a parent, absolutely push that he is placed at grade-level (or above, but not below). He should be fine in Alg 1. If counselor doesn't work with you, talk to the principal.

 

The principal was the last one I talked to.

This kid completed Algebra 1 last year (6th).  We are asking for him to take it again because he doesn't use a graphing calculator.  Everything is done mentally or by hand in his world. 

He is in remedial 7th grade math currently.  We've been working to get him out of it and told them straight up, this happens or he doesn't come here.  Their solution was to keep him there, then move him to algebra after he takes the A1 final and they see how he does, sometime in the second or 3rd week of school.  That was a no-go, because he'd miss the beginning of class and all the instructions that go with it.  So they said, yes, we'll move him to algebra, test him in the first few days and move him back if needed.

Now it's a no......maybe.  No students take Algebra in 7th.  I'm pushing him ahead and he'll miss skills.  I'm trying to explain to them that he's being held back.  He has those skills.  They'll check and get back to me.

This is the same school where I gave them a child with a long background of French and Latin and they put him in Spanish rather than a language he knew.  It is headaches for everything.  I just need to know one way or another about his math.

 

[vonfirmath]

8 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

The principal was the last one I talked to.

This kid completed Algebra 1 last year (6th).  We are asking for him to take it again because he doesn't use a graphing calculator.  Everything is done mentally or by hand in his world. 

He is in remedial 7th grade math currently.  We've been working to get him out of it and told them straight up, this happens or he doesn't come here.  Their solution was to keep him there, then move him to algebra after he takes the A1 final and they see how he does, sometime in the second or 3rd week of school.  That was a no-go, because he'd miss the beginning of class and all the instructions that go with it.  So they said, yes, we'll move him to algebra, test him in the first few days and move him back if needed.

Now it's a no......maybe.  No students take Algebra in 7th.  I'm pushing him ahead and he'll miss skills.  I'm trying to explain to them that he's being held back.  He has those skills.  They'll check and get back to me.

This is the same school where I gave them a child with a long background of French and Latin and they put him in Spanish rather than a language he knew.  It is headaches for everything.  I just need to know one way or another about his math.

 

Question: if he takes Algebra I in 7th grade, what math will he take in 8th? It does not justify putting him in remedial, but If the school is not set up to accomodate 7th graders in ALgebra I it could lead to problems.  (More normal in public schools is for advanced students to take Algebra I in 8th grade)

 

[HomeAgain]

3 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Question: if he takes Algebra I in 7th grade, what math will he take in 8th? It does not justify putting him in remedial, but If the school is not set up to accomodate 7th graders in ALgebra I it could lead to problems.  (More normal in public schools is for advanced students to take Algebra I in 8th grade)

 

The school is a combined 7th-12th.  He'd have room in his schedule to do geometry, algebra 2, precalc, calc 1, and something at the college his senior year. 

[Ali in OR]

Oh, I thought he was going into high school.

Our school district is in the process of phasing out geometry in 8th grade (alg 1 in 7th), because, yeah, too many kids are missing skills and end up lost in high school without a really solid background. You could probably still get a 7th grader into alg 1 this year, but not next as that's when they are making alg 1 in 8th grade the highest you can be placed. You and I know some kids really do have those skills and should be placed higher, but it will be difficult here. And overall, we see far more kids accelerated in our public schools beyond where their skills really are rather than too many kids placed below their skills. Our middle school geo is easier than our high school geo, so acceleration doesn't help those kids be ready for the harder classes beyond geo (sophomores in our Honors Alg 2 are typically stronger than our freshmen in Honors Alg 2). In your case, I think a placement test should help you prove your point.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Ali in OR

[Frances]

I can see them not allowing a 7th grader to take Algebra. Just when my son started middle school, they instituted a district wide rule that no student, no matter how advanced, could take algebra before 8th grade. Prior to that, they allowed it as early as sixth grade. While I didn’t necessarily agree, at least the policy was consistent across the large district, rather than it being different at every middle school. And then they added a special math challenge program for advanced students that consisted of online solo work and regular group meetings.

But to put him in remedial, rather than regular seventh grade math, is just crazy. As is having constantly changing answers.

[vonfirmath]

9 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

The school is a combined 7th-12th.  He'd have room in his schedule to do geometry, algebra 2, precalc, calc 1, and something at the college his senior year. 

IF they insist on Algebra in 8th -- Growing up I took Geometry in Summer School and was still able to finish Calculus BC in my  junior year (And stalled out since my parents could not afford to send me to college) My son is taking AP statistics this year to slow him down and keep him from running through all the math the school has too fast.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by vonfirmath

[HomeAgain]

If this school had anything to stretch students, I would be grateful.  They just don't.  They refuse to do any gifted/challenge program.  There's nothing.  I'm freaking exhausted with the back and forth.  If they had said straight up in June, when we toured and talked to the counselor, that algebra wasn't an option, we would have said "thank you very much" and moved on.  They didn't.  They have rapidly exhausted our options by promising and taking away.  I have nothing in my cabinets for what I would need for this year for him: an easy, do-the-next thing schedule that isn't requiring me to build from scratch.  If he stays home, it would look like this somewhat:

Writing With Skill

History Odyssey Early Modern

Exploration Education

TTUK12 Algebra 1

French (?)

Art of Argument (which I do have!)

Latin (?)

So that's a lot to get and be ready before the year starts!

[SKL]

Yeah I would not accept "we can't do that" in the OP situation (remedial course for an advanced student).

I would definitely demand to talk to someone up the chain.

I've had my ins and outs with scheduling issues.  I did not win all of them.  I vented a lot here.  I shut up and sat down a couple times.  But nope nopey nope on the OP.

I hope they get this fixed soon.  Maybe it won't happen before school starts, but it needs to happen ASAP. 

I would not allow my kid to step foot in that remedial class.  I might let him attend his other classes but go to the library or something during the suggested math period.

[heartlikealion]

7 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

If this school had anything to stretch students, I would be grateful.  They just don't.  They refuse to do any gifted/challenge program.  There's nothing.  I'm freaking exhausted with the back and forth.  If they had said straight up in June, when we toured and talked to the counselor, that algebra wasn't an option, we would have said "thank you very much" and moved on.  They didn't.  They have rapidly exhausted our options by promising and taking away.  I have nothing in my cabinets for what I would need for this year for him: an easy, do-the-next thing schedule that isn't requiring me to build from scratch.  If he stays home, it would look like this somewhat:

Writing With Skill

History Odyssey Early Modern

Exploration Education

TTUK12 Algebra 1

French (?)

Art of Argument (which I do have!)

Latin (?)

So that's a lot to get and be ready before the year starts!

Have you laid it all out for them like us? 

You told us in June X. Then you told us X. Then you changed your mind. We only agreed to enroll here because of X. 

And see what they say?

 

When I was in jr high they had a normal path of pre Alg then Alg. My best friend was skipping pre Alg so I asked if I could too, as we both had As in the 7th grade math class. The school allowed it. My dad may have also told the school that if I had any problems he could help as he has a Master's in math. In high school I was one of a couple students that were in a different grade level but taking math with older students for just that one core class. It was not a big deal. If I struggled it was only because of my own tendency to not always pay attention.

When ds went from homeschool to brick & mortar I was a bit upset with the math situation. Had he stayed home I would have placed him in a Derek Owens class (online) for pre Alg (coming out of using Math Mammoth) but instead he went to the private school where they use ABeka and had some generic "7th grade math." He's still there and just started high school/9th grade. 

If that class is really a make it/break it point, I can see withdrawing him. Does he have a preference? 

[mom2scouts]

This kind of stuff is why I'm homeschooling my youngest kids through high school. I just couldn't do it anymore! The amount of academic and emotional damage done to my highly gifted son makes it something I'm not willing to repeat.

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Have you laid it all out for them like us? 

You told us in June X. Then you told us X. Then you changed your mind. We only agreed to enroll here because of X. 

And see what they say?

 

When I was in jr high they had a normal path of pre Alg then Alg. My best friend was skipping pre Alg so I asked if I could too, as we both had As in the 7th grade math class. The school allowed it. My dad may have also told the school that if I had any problems he could help as he has a Master's in math. In high school I was one of a couple students that were in a different grade level but taking math with older students for just that one core class. It was not a big deal. If I struggled it was only because of my own tendency to not always pay attention.

When ds went from homeschool to brick & mortar I was a bit upset with the math situation. Had he stayed home I would have placed him in a Derek Owens class (online) for pre Alg (coming out of using Math Mammoth) but instead he went to the private school where they use ABeka and had some generic "7th grade math." He's still there and just started high school/9th grade. 

If that class is really a make it/break it point, I can see withdrawing him. Does he have a preference? 

Did he take Algebra in 8th grade?

Because our school did not call Advanced 7th grade math pre-algebra. But we still had Algebra I in 8th grade and were ready.

 

[Katy]

I’d call someone on the school board

[footballmom]

If this was just high school, I’d question if our sons were at the same school.  We’ve nicknamed his school “the school of no”.  It starts with the principal and trickles down and it’s mind blowing.  Older child went to two different high schools with caring and empowering principals. The differences are night and day.  My son sees his school is terrible, but all his friends are there, so…

In your shoes, if your son is on board with homeschooling and the school won’t budge, you have luxury of choice.  As a consumer, you go with whichever option will best serve your son.

[HomeAgain]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Have you laid it all out for them like us? 

You told us in June X. Then you told us X. Then you changed your mind. We only agreed to enroll here because of X. 

And see what they say?

-----

If that class is really a make it/break it point, I can see withdrawing him. Does he have a preference? 

I laid it out even better than that for them.  I've given them work samples as well.  It's just a lot of back and forth.

DS would rather stay home.  Dh and I will both be full time students again this fall and I don't have the luxury of doing teacher-intensive work with my own kid. And 12 is just not my favorite age to work with. I may need more from him than he is able to give in his little puberty-fogged brain.

 

[Lori D.]

17 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

...If he stays home, it would look like this somewhat:

Writing With Skill
History Odyssey Early Modern
Exploration Education
TTUK12 Algebra 1
French (?)
Art of Argument (which I do have!)
Latin (?)

So that's a lot to get and be ready before the year starts!

😫 So sorry to hear the school is already letting you down, even before starting there. If you do need to do a fast pivot to homeschool this year, you actually look like you've got figured out. I've √  all the items you already have figured out, and I've added a few ideas for your "holes" that are easy, do-the-next-thing types of curricula:

English
√  Writing -- WWS
- Literature -- possibly covered by History Odyssey, but if not, possibly:
   * Lightning Literature 7 or 8
   * Essentials in Literature 7
   * make a list of short stories and classics/books of high interest, and enjoy
- (if needed) Grammar -- Analytical Grammar
- (if needed) Spelling -- Megawords (maybe books 5 &6 this year, 7 & 8 next year); Soaring with Spelling; Spelling Workout
- (if desired) Vocabulary -- Classical Vocabulary

Math
√  Algebra 1 -- TTUK12

Science
√  Exploration Education

Social Studies
√  Early Modern History -- History Odyssey

French
* possible at home options: Breaking the Barrier; the ULAT
* outsourcing options:
- self-teach: Udemy; Fluenz
- online course provider: AIM Academy; WTM Academy; 
- hire a tutor
- dual enrollment at your local community college IF DS is 12yo and works well with languages AND your local CC accepts students down to that age (usually with special extra hoop-jumping)

Latin
* possible at home options: Henle, Visual Latin, Wheelock
* possible outsourced options:

Logic
√  Art of Argument
______________________________

The only other things I'd suggest adding -- and I'd recommend that at least one of these be an extracurricular rather than an at-home "class," for double-duty of social opportunities and meeting peers with similar interests:

- PE or some sort of regular physical, aerobic activity
A sport, swim team, martial arts classes, hiking, orienteering, work towards the Congressional Award... 

- Fine Art --OR-- Elective type of class
What is he interested in? And what's available in your area? Use this as a chance to explore a current hobby/passion/ interest, or exposure to new things.

Fine Arts can be the usual musical instrument, youth theater, or art classes, but it can also be things like filmmaking, woodworking, digital arts, jewelry-making... 

Elective is such a great "catch-all" for exploring an interest -- coding, robotics or rockets, cake decorating, gardening...

- Extracurriculars
This takes research on your part, BUT, middle school is such a great time for exploring interests and activities outside the home, for meeting like-minded people, etc. All kinds of things you could do:
- from age/grade specific, to all-ages groups
- after school club
- community youth activity

Some past threads with ideas for middle school to high school ages:

Once your child hits middle school, does all the 'fun stuff' stop? (how gr. 7-12 are fun in new ways + ideas) 
Advice for extracurriculars (lots of ideas in the posts) 
What extracurricular activities for the high school years?
High school socialization (activity ideas)
DS is so, so lonely (activity & social suggestions for teens)
Extracurricular activities for computer-obsessed introverted kid? 
Best recreational level extracurricular opportunities (suggestions for all ages) 
Low income people and extracurriculars (suggestions for all ages + ways of cutting costs)
Congressional Award discussion

[HomeAgain]

Thanks, @Lori D. 🙂  That brings up some options I hadn't considered.

I'm not worried about electives.  He skates/plays hockey 4-5x a week, is on his 7th year of violin, and has a healthy extracurricular agenda with an additional 8-10h a month of volunteering in the community. His evenings are always packed.

I'll peruse the recommendations for the rest, though!

Dh and I came to the realization that one of our goals for him is to keep him near that sweet spot of "not knowing everything, some easy, some having to work for" so that he continues to develop an attention to detail and works on independent learning.  His classes are cake-walk easy.  He will not develop the necessary study skills the entire time he's there.  By not moving him into a work-level math, the chance of him not getting anything out of the year is very high.

[Frances]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:05 PM, HomeAgain said:

Thanks, @Lori D. 🙂  That brings up some options I hadn't considered.

I'm not worried about electives.  He skates/plays hockey 4-5x a week, is on his 7th year of violin, and has a healthy extracurricular agenda with an additional 8-10h a month of volunteering in the community. His evenings are always packed.

I'll peruse the recommendations for the rest, though!

Dh and I came to the realization that one of our goals for him is to keep him near that sweet spot of "not knowing everything, some easy, some having to work for" so that he continues to develop an attention to detail and works on independent learning.  His classes are cake-walk easy.  He will not develop the necessary study skills the entire time he's there.  By not moving him into a work-level math, the chance of him not getting anything out of the year is very high.

Honestly, I’m not sure most kids develop study skills in middle school. My son went to the top middle school in our very large district, a charter school, and he never brought anything home to study. He did have a study hall last period he made good use of, but the overall level was quite a bit lower than what he had done at home. He described his experience as “way more work, but way easier.” They also required the students to use what to me was a terrible, horrible, no good organization method where they literally glued things into spiral notebooks.
 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Frances

[73349]

I would let guidance counselor know, patiently and in small words, that he will be withdrawn on the morning of the second day of school if he is not placed correctly by the end of the first day.

This is trivial; if they can't correct his schedule, I wouldn't like to begin to imagine what else they're incompetent at.

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I laid it out even better than that for them.  I've given them work samples as well.  It's just a lot of back and forth.

DS would rather stay home.  Dh and I will both be full time students again this fall and I don't have the luxury of doing teacher-intensive work with my own kid. And 12 is just not my favorite age to work with. I may need more from him than he is able to give in his little puberty-fogged brain.

 

Do you have the funds to enrol him in online classes? A couple of things from AOPS and WTMA?

DS started distance Ed this year. He did nothing new in maths for the first five months. Much of what he was doing we covered two or three years ago. It was good for him though because as someone said above the workload for a lot of subjects is much higher even though the level is lower. It’s been good for him to have a cruisy subject while developing his output level. My only minor concern is that they may not have prepared him well enough for the two senior years of maths but hopefully he will be ok.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[heartlikealion]

4 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Did he take Algebra in 8th grade?

Because our school did not call Advanced 7th grade math pre-algebra. But we still had Algebra I in 8th grade and were ready.

 

No. ABeka does 8th grade Pre Alg. Went to open house tonight and met his Alg I teacher. 

[heartlikealion]

If you go with Latin, I’d consider the Getting Started with Latin book. I own the Spanish one. 

[heartlikealion]

A few years ago I had a possible list for homeschool classes that were a mix of online/offline materials. Several if not all with a teacher component so I didn’t have to do the grading/feedback. A few came from Oak Meadow if you want to explore that. But I think you had those subjects covered already. Just if you need a teacher component you may want to review. They said their language arts and history paired nicely. 

I’d have him set up a Duolingo account, too for whatever language (I missed you had more than one language possibility). 

[Tree Frog]

When ds first attended public school, he was in 6th grade. For 7th grade math, he was bored. ("Mom, all they're doing again is decimals and fractions all year. I've already done 2 years of it!") The school suggested he take the final exams of 7th and 8th grade math (something and pre algebra) and if he passed, her could move into algebra 1. He passed both tests, so was moved into algebra 1 with the 8th graders several weeks after classes started. We allowed him to do that with the understanding that if the district didn't provide geometry in 8th grade, we would need to drive him to the high school for math. Instead, because there were enough students scattered across the large district who needed geometry, they offered an online class during one of the periods. I think that was the last year they allowed students to test ahead. I find that to be very sad. If ds had to use the regular math rotation, we likely would've had behavior problems because school would've been too easy. 

It worked out very well for ds. I hope your school is able to get its act together and allow your ds to be placed appropriately. Is your ds pushing to attend ps or would he be ok returning go homeschooling? 

[Annie G]

Some schools just seem unable to figure out how to deal with kids who don’t perfectly check the right boxes. I feel your frustration and hope you get it worked out quickly. 

‘Middle granddaughter opted to attend school for the first time this year as an 8th grader and the school said the same thing- oh, algebra placement? Great. But once her schedule came out they decided they can’t possibly let her take algebra. Or the foreign language or art class she chose. They did, however, manage to schedule TWO of the same agriculture classes for her. I guess since they couldn’t get her in the art class that ag was ‘close enough’. And now 9 days in, they have decided she just needs to live with it. 
 

 

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, 73349 said:

I would let guidance counselor know, patiently and in small words, that he will be withdrawn on the morning of the second day of school if he is not placed correctly by the end of the first day.

This is trivial; if they can't correct his schedule, I wouldn't like to begin to imagine what else they're incompetent at.

Here is my take, as a school counselor who has been doing this a while.

1. The counselor may not have any say about this (I didn't in CA and I don't in NC).  This is typically an admin decision and the counselor has to go by what the admin says.

2. The school most likely doesn't care if you stay or go unless you are a star athlete in high school or something.   I hate to put it that way, but it is true.    So threats like this get a shrug.

3. The persistent parents get what their children need.   Ask if there is a placement test your child can take, ask to speak to the math teacher once school starts if it isn't fixed.   

4. Public schools have seen too many homeschool families come into the school touting how smart their kids are and how advanced they are, only to find out that it is not true.   PS employees often eye roll when parents go on and on about how their child has already done X or Y and is X number of years above grade level.   So, again, a placement test request is important.   If they don't have a standardized one, ask the math teacher if there is one she/he can give.   If the school uses IXL, that might be a starting point.

5. And lastly, if you aren't getting the results you want/need, see if there is an outside group that has a testing service you can pay for to "prove" your child is at the level you are saying he is.   I don't know if some of the tutoring centers might have something they use for placement for students coming into their programs????

[HomeAgain]

9 hours ago, Annie G said:

 

‘Middle granddaughter opted to attend school for the first time this year as an 8th grader and the school said the same thing- oh, algebra placement? Great. But once her schedule came out they decided they can’t possibly let her take algebra. Or the foreign language or art class she chose. They did, however, manage to schedule TWO of the same agriculture classes for her. I guess since they couldn’t get her in the art class that ag was ‘close enough’. And now 9 days in, they have decided she just needs to live with it. 
 

 

That is exactly what this is sounding like here.

FTR, guys, this is who I'm sending them: a child of linguists in a family of engineers. He has a memory like a trap (except when he struggled with months after Covid) He has thrived in 6 years of Latin and French, uses ASL for everyday communication, and can break down language mechanisms like nobody's business.  His own writing sucks because he doesn't care, but has read quite a bit of classic literature and discusses it well, plus he can write when he wants to.  His brain works the same way to break down mathematics.  I have stacks of notebooks of him from beginning with his shaky early elementary handwriting using concepts and ideas he shouldn't have known, up through 5th grade where it's filled with things like working out his own formulas for squares/cubes from others so that he can then use these as ways to reverse engineer roots.  Every piece of written work is backed by visual evidence of him learning through hands on/concrete methods, to include working in other base systems and other things that seem abstract.  He has missed nothing in early math, especially since in comparison, his peers are coming from Everyday Math with a side of Jo Boaler.  Thanks, but uh, no.  This class will be a disaster.

We wanted one class where he might learn something new - and not Spanish.  No offense to the language, but two in the same language family is enough for now.  Just one class for him to work in and not dash off .  We told them this.  We made sure we waited until he was old enough to go to a school with kids moving across age lines for classes.  We ASKED if they could do this, and they said yes.  It's now August.  Our other programs closed enrollment two months ago, the last of which closed last month with its few spare slots.  They wasted our time for the entire summer in the hopes that we would keep our kid where he won't thrive.  This is an educational setting now where he will be able to do any work with his eyes closed and in 5 minutes.

[HomeAgain]

4 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Here is my take, as a school counselor who has been doing this a while.

1. The counselor may not have any say about this (I didn't in CA and I don't in NC).  This is typically an admin decision and the counselor has to go by what the admin says.

2. The school most likely doesn't care if you stay or go unless you are a star athlete in high school or something.   I hate to put it that way, but it is true.    So threats like this get a shrug.

3. The persistent parents get what their children need.   Ask if there is a placement test your child can take, ask to speak to the math teacher once school starts if it isn't fixed.   

4. Public schools have seen too many homeschool families come into the school touting how smart their kids are and how advanced they are, only to find out that it is not true.   PS employees often eye roll when parents go on and on about how their child has already done X or Y and is X number of years above grade level.   So, again, a placement test request is important.   If they don't have a standardized one, ask the math teacher if there is one she/he can give.   If the school uses IXL, that might be a starting point.

5. And lastly, if you aren't getting the results you want/need, see if there is an outside group that has a testing service you can pay for to "prove" your child is at the level you are saying he is.   I don't know if some of the tutoring centers might have something they use for placement for students coming into their programs????

1.  It's a small school.  Decisions are made at the counselor level for the most part, but yes.

2. They care.  They hemorrhage students like nobody's business.  It's why there's one 7th-12th grade school for the entire town.  By 9th, half the kids are gone to private, charter, and other settings.  A full third were already gone to outside K-8th establishments after starting there.  They can't keep kids.

3. We have agreed to a placement test.  Repeatedly.  We had asked about it in June, told it wasn't necessary, and then in August it was offered.  We jumped on it and immediately agreed.  DS did the summer work for the honors algebra class with no issues.  They saw that and went back and forth.

4. Yep.  Placement test and they have his portfolio.  I've offered additional work and scope/sequence and told "it wasn't needed". 

5. We don't have tutoring services here without me driving a fair piece. 

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

1.  It's a small school.  Decisions are made at the counselor level for the most part, but yes.

2. They care.  They hemorrhage students like nobody's business.  It's why there's one 7th-12th grade school for the entire town.  By 9th, half the kids are gone to private, charter, and other settings.  A full third were already gone to outside K-8th establishments after starting there.  They can't keep kids.

3. We have agreed to a placement test.  Repeatedly.  We had asked about it in June, told it wasn't necessary, and then in August it was offered.  We jumped on it and immediately agreed.  DS did the summer work for the honors algebra class with no issues.  They saw that and went back and forth.

4. Yep.  Placement test and they have his portfolio.  I've offered additional work and scope/sequence and told "it wasn't needed". 

5. We don't have tutoring services here without me driving a fair piece. 

To the bolded.   I am not understanding.   If they care that much, why would they put your child in remedial and not bend.   I am not understanding.   

[HomeAgain]

12 minutes ago, DawnM said:

To the bolded.   I am not understanding.   If they care that much, why would they put your child in remedial and not bend.   I am not understanding.   

Well, it's like this conversation:

"We are losing tons of students to the IB school and school-choice programs!  Why is that??"
"I'm not sure, let's look into it."
"Hmm....no clue.  Guess it'll always be a mystery!"

And at the same time, these conversations are also happening at the table:

"Our test scores are really low."
"Our students feel there is a bullying problem.  They've started a club about diversity, but it will be a hard sell to our teachers to incorporate any of the ideas.  They're too set in their ways."
"Do you think we should put a library in the elementary school?"
"40% of our students need remedial classes at their first year of college, and it's often our top students.  They say they weren't prepared on how to study."

Real, honest to goodness topics from the July meet-and-greet with the superintendent.

[DawnM]

43 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Well, it's like this conversation:

"We are losing tons of students to the IB school and school-choice programs!  Why is that??"
"I'm not sure, let's look into it."
"Hmm....no clue.  Guess it'll always be a mystery!"

And at the same time, these conversations are also happening at the table:

"Our test scores are really low."
"Our students feel there is a bullying problem.  They've started a club about diversity, but it will be a hard sell to our teachers to incorporate any of the ideas.  They're too set in their ways."
"Do you think we should put a library in the elementary school?"
"40% of our students need remedial classes at their first year of college, and it's often our top students.  They say they weren't prepared on how to study."

Real, honest to goodness topics from the July meet-and-greet with the superintendent.

Ok, but I still don't see how they are keeping your child literally 2 steps back if he needs to be in advanced.   And if they really do care if your child leaves, then you should threaten and see if anything happens.   

Can you move your child to one of the IB or school of choice schools?   Sounds like other parents are!

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

 

Can you move your child to one of the IB or school of choice schools?   Sounds like other parents are!

Yes.  IF WE HAD SETTLED THIS IN JUNE.

They said yes in June.  It's August.  School is getting ready to start.  School choice slots are full. Charter slots are full. IB doesn't start for another 2 years for him.  I can probably get him a slot at the $$$$ rigorous private school that still has openings.  We should have no problem giving up all extracurriculars, college, and a car to pay for it, with a side of skipping dinner 2-3 nights a week.

They crushed our options by not being honest with us.  They didn't want to sit down, didn't want to know exactly what he needed.  They thought if they placated us they could put him wherever and we'd be fine with the end result.

[BusyMom5]

I can feel your frustration,  and this is part of why my oldest was pulled to homeschool in 5th grade.  I think you have your answer- they are not going to work with him.  The good news is that your son sounds like a very serious student who just needs opportunities!  Since you will be so busy, maybe take this year as a kind of off year- let him decide what he wants to learn about and document it himself.   He's already so far ahead, he isn't going to fall behind.  I let mine do Horse Biology for 6th grade 😉  The public school is going to be soul-crushingly boring.  

I'm not sure if this is available, but in my area there is a private homeschool academy place- you provide the curriculum you want, they provide a place and a teacher to help facilitate if necessary.  A friend had issues with her freshman son who needed to be in Pre-Calc and the public schools were adamant no higher than Geometry for 9th.  No exceptions.   He ended up at the homeschool academy doing his own level work,  but with a teacher and classmates. 

[Catwoman]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:10 PM, HomeAgain said:

I laid it out even better than that for them.  I've given them work samples as well.  It's just a lot of back and forth.

DS would rather stay home.  Dh and I will both be full time students again this fall and I don't have the luxury of doing teacher-intensive work with my own kid. And 12 is just not my favorite age to work with. I may need more from him than he is able to give in his little puberty-fogged brain.

 

 

11 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Well, it's like this conversation:

"We are losing tons of students to the IB school and school-choice programs!  Why is that??"
"I'm not sure, let's look into it."
"Hmm....no clue.  Guess it'll always be a mystery!"

And at the same time, these conversations are also happening at the table:

"Our test scores are really low."
"Our students feel there is a bullying problem.  They've started a club about diversity, but it will be a hard sell to our teachers to incorporate any of the ideas.  They're too set in their ways."
"Do you think we should put a library in the elementary school?"
"40% of our students need remedial classes at their first year of college, and it's often our top students.  They say they weren't prepared on how to study."

Real, honest to goodness topics from the July meet-and-greet with the superintendent.

Honestly, I know you don't really want to homeschool him this year, but based on everything you have posted in this thread, I can't see any other decent option for your son -- especially because he would prefer to be home, anyway. 

Even not-that-intensive homeschooling will probably be better for him in the long run, than being in a lousy school and doing a ton of busywork and homework that will bore him and possibly kill his love of learning.

[Ting Tang]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:27 PM, HomeAgain said:

How do you all do it and not lose your ever loving mind???

We've been trying to get ds in an appropriate math class.  Orientation is tomorrow and they have this kid in remedial math instead of where he belongs.  We've been told

June: Yes, absolutely we can do that!

August: We can do it after school starts

Last week: We can definitely change it to Algebra 1, let me get right on that.

Today: We can't do that at all.

The latest reasoning is that he will have "missed 7th grade skills like graphing" if he (repeats) algebra 1 at the school.

HE WILL HAVE MISSED GRAPHING.

This is the reasoning.  I'm so done.  We may be homeschooling again next year and I am so ticked off about that.

I just don't know what to say anymore.  They have his files.  They claim not to have his files.  Nobody knows what's going on.  Meanwhile, he's supposed to go to orientation tomorrow and not have a schedule.   ARGGGHHH!

This is my fear of returning my children to a brick and mortar school.  My eldest should probably be in a school. The trouble is none of them would have appropriate math.  

I read a lot about how school choice and homeschooling is wrecking public education.  I want strong public schools, but in the meantime, I do not want my children to be collateral damage.  

I'm also not sure how I can homeschool four children at the quality of instruction I want for them, which also cannot be found at our local school, not even close.

Honestly, they should just put him in the math class you feel is best for him and be done with it.  They probably have much bigger worries!

I'm so very sorry.  I've thought about private schools, too, and even they don't live up to my standards. They are better than the public schools around here.  The better one is far away and costs $10,000 per year.  If only all of our children could get that kind of education with what is spent on public school students. Our local school on that note can't keep kids, either.  They begged me do to dual enrollment. I am not sure how that works for a k-8.  They did hire an assistant principal for 120 kids.  Still there are many teacher vacancies. They don't treat them well, either.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Ting Tang

[HomeAgain]

11 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I'm so very sorry.  I've thought about private schools, too, and even they don't live up to my standards. They are better than the public schools around here.  The better one is far away and costs $10,000 per year.  If only all of our children could get that kind of education with what is spent on public school students. Our local school on that note can't keep kids, either.  They begged me do to dual enrollment. I am not sure how that works for a k-8.  They did hire an assistant principal for 120 kids.  Still there are many teacher vacancies. They don't treat them well, either.

 

We should have taken better heed of advice when ds was little.  I took a very thorough tour of a lovely private school.  It was a full day almost, and was such a wonderful atmosphere for learning that I really wanted to send ds.  The principal gently told me they had nothing to offer this particular kid.  I could send him, but he wouldn't get what he needed.  If I could teach him at home I should, and if I couldn't then yes, this was a good second choice, but a much lower second choice.  I left sadly, but very impressed with a principal who knew how to support his teachers and students in whatever was best.

 

DS has been given the two plans.  We went to orientation yesterday and he was mildly impressed.  I was not.  20 minute lunches, looped schedules, and not one class that will challenge him are in my radar.  DS saw lockers and popsicles and a Chromebook.😄 He thinks that part is cool.  There is a lot to weigh - a lonely year at home because I don't have the time for intensive work with him, or a social year where he learns nothing.

 

[Carrie12345]

I’m sorry you’re going through all this.
It was somewhat similar for us with ds.   He had completed 5th-8th grade at home, in 3 years, including Alg I. His school district refused to put him in 9th grade, which annoyed me for academics, but wasn’t a terrible thing for socio-emotional/maturity reasons.
Except they didn’t offer Geometry OR EVEN ALG I in the middle school. What is that even about? Alg I was offered in *my middle school in the early 90s!

He ended up taking “8th grade math” and then repeating Algebra the following year. I was not a fan.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

We should have taken better heed of advice when ds was little.  I took a very thorough tour of a lovely private school.  It was a full day almost, and was such a wonderful atmosphere for learning that I really wanted to send ds.  The principal gently told me they had nothing to offer this particular kid.  I could send him, but he wouldn't get what he needed.  If I could teach him at home I should, and if I couldn't then yes, this was a good second choice, but a much lower second choice.  I left sadly, but very impressed with a principal who knew how to support his teachers and students in whatever was best.

 

DS has been given the two plans.  We went to orientation yesterday and he was mildly impressed.  I was not.  20 minute lunches, looped schedules, and not one class that will challenge him are in my radar.  DS saw lockers and popsicles and a Chromebook.😄 He thinks that part is cool.  There is a lot to weigh - a lonely year at home because I don't have the time for intensive work with him, or a social year where he learns nothing.

 

What does your son want?   If he wants to go to school, tell him you will make a compromise, you will let him go IF he promises to do some additional after school assignments to keep up with his math level.   

Meanwhile keep pushing the school to change his class, keep asking his remedial math teacher for assistance in moving him to the appropriate math class, and keep talking to admin or the counselor about changing his class.

Otherwise, I agree that homeschooling sounds like it is the only option for him.

For my kids, they weren't challenged as much academically, but they were able to thrive in other ways.   My second son found his theater and music voice for example.

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

Meanwhile keep pushing the school to change his class, keep asking his remedial math teacher for assistance in moving him to the appropriate math class, and keep talking to admin or the counselor about changing his class.

 

Wouldn't they move him once they saw he was acing every assignment/test in the remedial class?

[Miss Tick]

12 minutes ago, Kanin said:

Wouldn't they move him once they saw he was acing every assignment/test in the remedial class?

I don't know about the OP's school, but my local school has clear policies limiting the possibility of class changes to the first few weeks and for limited circumstances. There is unlikely to be a test in that early period, and homework is graded for completion.

"Challenging" or even just "meeting ALL students where they are at" is not really a public school guiding principle. The schools are rewarded based on the number of students who attend and the number who graduate.

[EKS]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:27 AM, HomeAgain said:

The latest reasoning is that he will have "missed 7th grade skills like graphing" if he (repeats) algebra 1 at the school.

People who say things like that obviously missed 7th grade skills like graphing themselves.  

I don't know if this would help in your situation, but when we were getting my son placed in math, I showed them his work from the previous year.  It helped that we had used Derek Owens, so everything was organized in a way that was easily understandable by them.

[HomeAgain]

32 minutes ago, EKS said:

People who say things like that obviously missed 7th grade skills like graphing themselves.  

I don't know if this would help in your situation, but when we were getting my son placed in math, I showed them his work from the previous year.  It helped that we had used Derek Owens, so everything was organized in a way that was easily understandable by them.

That should help, shouldn't it?  And it is something I have always prepared for and kept more than sufficient records.

Alas.

Every year, I have submitted a detailed report with work samples over what ds covered.  They have access to those because I sent 6th grade's directly to the school this June when considering placement.

I also sent over additional work samples, opened up my detailed Facebook albums showing him at work for the past 3 years, wrote out a synopsis of all math he has done in the past 7 years, and sent back the Honors Algebra 1 8-page summer work from the school that he did for sh*&s and giggles. 

The answer now is "maybe accelerated math", which covers 7th grade foundational skills and beginning pre-algebra.  DS wants more social time, but even he is realizing that a year of twiddling his thumbs in every subject may frustrate him.  What he does want I cannot give him.  I can't give him another year of intensive tutoring, field trips, and projects/hands on learning every day.  I can give him school in a box where I am there to assist, send him off to do projects by himself, but have a full schedule myself.

[heartlikealion]

1 hour ago, SusanC said:

I don't know about the OP's school, but my local school has clear policies limiting the possibility of class changes to the first few weeks and for limited circumstances. There is unlikely to be a test in that early period, and homework is graded for completion.

"Challenging" or even just "meeting ALL students where they are at" is not really a public school guiding principle. The schools are rewarded based on the number of students who attend and the number who graduate.

When ds went into brick & mortar at the private school they did a placement test. I believe he did this both times… homeschool to 3rd grade then homeschool to 7th grade. They said keep going til it’s too hard. He stopped a couple grade levels above his for math at least one of those placement tests (part of the reason I was so frustrated he didn’t go into preAlg when it was his homeschool path. Can’t remember if this happened for third and 7th but I know he did well on both placement tests). They only move kids to a higher grade if it’s more extreme (can’t remember if it was reading level specific or not) partly for social reasons. Anyway it’s possible the school has an existing test. 

Based on the OP’s latest post it sounds like he’d have to compromise on math if he values the social aspect. Alternatively (assuming they didn’t actually LOOK at the samples) I’d stand there in their face and point to graphing samples if I had them. Or work with him on that at home now. 

[Forget-Me-Not]

So frustrating. Can you get him on the wait list for any of the other charters? Ours here have a lottery early in the calendar year, but will take applications and add kids to the waitlist after. 
 

What would happen if said very bluntly, “THIS is why you’re hemorrhaging students. I’m taking my brilliant kid and his test scores elsewhere unless you can fix this TODAY.”? I mean it’s sort of the nuclear option, but maybe call their bluff? If you’re prepared to follow through of course. 

[heartlikealion]

24 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

So frustrating. Can you get him on the wait list for any of the other charters? Ours here have a lottery early in the calendar year, but will take applications and add kids to the waitlist after. 
 

What would happen if said very bluntly, “THIS is why you’re hemorrhaging students. I’m taking my brilliant kid and his test scores elsewhere unless you can fix this TODAY.”? I mean it’s sort of the nuclear option, but maybe call their bluff? If you’re prepared to follow through of course. 

I was also wondering if the OP’s family was prepared for an ultimatum. But my biggest concern was her son’s wishes and if he’d “lose” because if no other school can take him then he has to settle for the homeschool option that can’t replicate his past HS years or being bored in math. 

[Kanin]

6 hours ago, SusanC said:

"Challenging" or even just "meeting ALL students where they are at" is not really a public school guiding principle. The schools are rewarded based on the number of students who attend and the number who graduate.

I wouldn't say that. It's my school's guiding principle. 

[Miss Tick]

8 minutes ago, Kanin said:

I wouldn't say that. It's my school's guiding principle. 

That is great! How does that work in practice? Are there some areas of study with a lot of diversification in assignments? I would like to see more challenge for my dd in math and world language, but I wouldn't even know what to suggest. How does your school handle that?

I think it is probably given lip service at our school, but looking at the funding parameters I can't imagine it gets much money to back it up. Perhaps, though, I don't know the correct way to ask for it.

[Kanin]

Just now, SusanC said:

That is great! How does that work in practice? Are there some areas of study with a lot of diversification in assignments? I would like to see more challenge for my dd in math and world language, but I wouldn't even know what to suggest. How does your school handle that?

I think it is probably given lip service at our school, but looking at the funding parameters I can't imagine it gets much money to back it up. Perhaps, though, I don't know the correct way to ask for it.

Well, I'm in special ed so it's a bit different. I'm able to customize a lot. I'm also able to mix kids from different grades, which is awesome. I know the general ed teachers sometimes have kids from different grades in a class. 

Actually, from my perspective, at my school the kids who excel get more of their needs met than the kids that struggle. But that might be because I see more of that side of things. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

That should help, shouldn't it?  And it is something I have always prepared for and kept more than sufficient records.

Alas.

Every year, I have submitted a detailed report with work samples over what ds covered.  They have access to those because I sent 6th grade's directly to the school this June when considering placement.

I also sent over additional work samples, opened up my detailed Facebook albums showing him at work for the past 3 years, wrote out a synopsis of all math he has done in the past 7 years, and sent back the Honors Algebra 1 8-page summer work from the school that he did for sh*&s and giggles. 

The answer now is "maybe accelerated math", which covers 7th grade foundational skills and beginning pre-algebra.  DS wants more social time, but even he is realizing that a year of twiddling his thumbs in every subject may frustrate him.  What he does want I cannot give him.  I can't give him another year of intensive tutoring, field trips, and projects/hands on learning every day.  I can give him school in a box where I am there to assist, send him off to do projects by himself, but have a full schedule myself.

Are there any hybrid schools in your area that you could make work? I swear, I think I'm more invested in what your son ends up doing for math than I am my own 7th grader's math, lol!