13 year old admitted to medical school

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, EKS said:

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by desertflower
No need to have the last word.

[Jenny in Florida]

On 7/25/2022 at 3:13 AM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Time will tell, right?  If her mother is doing all the pushing, I wouldn't be surprised if the daughter stops going along with it once she gets a bit older as a teenager.  If the daughter is doing the pulling (my highly gifted child pulled me along at breakneck speed - I wasn't doing any pushing at all) then it might be a different outcome.  

Right? I remember when my daughter was young and people would (not to my face, of course) accuse us of "pushing her," and I wanted to laugh (perhaps slightly hysterically) because it was all we could do to more or less hold onto her coattails. 

[EKS]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by desertflower
No need to have the last word.

[bolt.]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Good question. I think this messaging is targeted because that's the stated goal of various major operatives/proponents that I cannot link to here. They literally say this is the goal out loud now but the sentiment extends 50 years into the past and ties in to Lee Atwater (whom I can reference because he is dead). White people are encouraged to feel resentment toward any minority 'first', particularly in an academic realm, because they receive benefits and opportunities that are perceived to be unearned. Stories that play into that pre-conceived truth are more likely to be believed and shared. The entire goal is to tap into the *id* sentiment while allowing plausible deniability. It's not nearly so explicit as a 1942 epithet "***** GO HOME". It's insidious and incredibly effective precisely because it primarily appeals to white women and men in ways that don't use known *BAD WORDS* (tm).

Well, that's all quite oblique and vague, so I'm not very sure that I'm getting the point.

Are you suggesting that: (a) working at various media outlets are certain persons who are consciously white supremacist, and (b) that those people would be strategically promoting an inordinate amount of pseudo-feel-good stories with minorities 'doing well', (c) specifically with the intention that white readers will do the work of researching and debunking, (d) in order to render the story into evidence of the message 'whenever minority folks seem to do well, it always turns out that they don't deserve it' which (e) serves to reinforce white supremacist worldview that white people were smarter/better all along, and equality of ability is a myth, as well as (f) that there is something to resent about the positive reporting in the first place?

If I've got that right, I can see some of the sense of some of it. I question, though, step (c) where they rely on the audience to debunk the original positive-feeling reporting. How can they count on that? Do they do all the research and already know the flaws in their story? Do they 'plant' the contrary information?

I also may be naieve (and Canadian) but I find myself also questioning (a-b) that there really are that many conscious and strategic white supremacists, imbedding themselves and following a subtle and coordinated media-manipulation strategy like that. I like to think that true bigots are few and far between, and that they have difficulty hiding their true colours in work settings, and that they are largely unintelligent and hopefully badly coordinated. (Do I need to start questioning that presupposition?)

I'd be more likely to believe that a bunch of this is the result of cumulative society-wide subconscious bias, because I believe that exists. But that doesn't seem to be what you are saying here.

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I thought so. I could have been much more pointed.

Wow, why are you taking such cheap shots at @EKS?

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Catwoman
I can’t type a single question without a typo

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Well, that's all quite oblique and vague, so I'm not very sure that I'm getting the point.

Are you suggesting that: (a) working at various media outlets are certain persons who are consciously white supremacist, and (b) that those people would be strategically promoting an inordinate amount of pseudo-feel-good stories with minorities 'doing well', (c) specifically with the intention that white readers will do the work of researching and debunking, (d) in order to render the story into evidence of the message 'whenever minority folks seem to do well, it always turns out that they don't deserve it' which (e) serves to reinforce white supremacist worldview that white people were smarter/better all along, and equality of ability is a myth, as well as (f) that there is something to resent about the positive reporting in the first place?

a) Yes, fact.

b) Yes,  to advance their own agendas.

c) Positive side effect of (b), yes

d) no, too overt.

e) a-c, yes, stated agenda.

f) yes, seen here repeatedly.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Wow, why are you taking such cheap shots at @EKS?

 

Not a cheap shot. A cheap shot would be a personal attack. I responded to the IDEAS/advocacy.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Not a cheap shot. A cheap shot would be a personal attack. I responded to the IDEAS/advocacy.

Specifically what ideas of mine are you responding to?

Edited July 26, 2022 by EKS

[Jenny in Florida]

21 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, and ANY 6th grader and up can take college courses via dual enrollment here. You don't have to be all special special - just be ready for the class. It generally isn't taken advantage of until highschool, but it is done on occasion. Without national tv interviews or brand experts, even!

Ah, if only that had been the policy 15 years ago . . . When I contacted Valencia asking if my daughter could take a couple of classes, they wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole. 

In fact, even when my son tried to dual enroll at 14 -- with two solid years of verifiable (FLVS and so on) high school grades on his transcript, they initially said no. Someone higher up the chain apparently overruled the denial a week or so later, but it was definitely not an automatic thing.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, EKS said:

Specifically what ideas of mine are you responding to.

Love that you left off the 'advocacy'. Don't wish to engage. Have a good evening.

[Sneezyone]

And, yet again, the white politesse police jump in to sanction/delete my words regardless of how they're framed/said/expressed. LOVE IT! I'm super, extra special that way. This is cray. Don't y'all ever get tired of curtailing speech? It never fails to surprise and disgust the way some comments are ALWAYS reported regardless of their civility, lack of cursing/personal attacks or speech. Offending white folks is enough. EVERY TIME. Fragility, thy name is WTM.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

This is 2022. Did we have branding experts in 1978? Jean's exemplar is 35 years old. Is the goal to prohibit a repeat? I really wish folks were less defensive and more introspective WRT what makes stories like this so triggering for you. This family isn't hurting you or taking anything away from you. If their child is negatively affected, that's on them as parents. This is an involved and engaged family who loves their kid. They're doing things differently than you. Love it or hate it, that doesn't make them toxic or abusive.

 

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

No, ma'am. We've seen multiple examples of this over the last several years and none of the exemplars of unearned attention/benefits have been white males. NONE. These stories are promoted in groups you and I are familiar with for very different reasons. In my groups, to promote inspiration/aspiration. In yours, to promote grievance and resentment. I recognize that manipulation for what it is. Do you?

There have been stories about white males doing this kind of thing, and people judging the parent plenty througout the last few decades. There were even tv shows and such about the idea. 

10 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Ah, if only that had been the policy 15 years ago . . . When I contacted Valencia asking if my daughter could take a couple of classes, they wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole. 

In fact, even when my son tried to dual enroll at 14 -- with two solid years of verifiable (FLVS and so on) high school grades on his transcript, they initially said no. Someone higher up the chain apparently overruled the denial a week or so later, but it was definitely not an automatic thing.

I think even now they try to SAY you must be a junior, but the state policy is I think 6th grade. They sometimes need reminding of that policy, lol. 

[Corraleno]

The implication that people here are only criticizing this story because the child is black, and would never say the same things if the story was about a white child, is totally off base. No one is "shredding" Caleb Anderson's parents for "creating opportunities" for a gifted black child by letting him attend Georgia Tech at 13, or questioning whether that's what he really wanted to do. And there has been plenty of criticism here of white families who were pushing their kids into early college as teens regardless of whether it was really the best choice for the child, and using that experience for publicity. In fact there were very similar criticisms of the Letham parents for pushing their kids through basic, unchallenging, box-checking curriculum in order to get them into college early just for the sake of being early, for choosing their kids' major for them (which, coincidentally, was engineering at ASU), and for the fact that the kids did not seem to be as "college ready" at 14 as their parents claimed since they admitted to rewriting their kids essays for them.

What people are criticizing in THIS particular story isn't that a black child is being given opportunities to pursue her interests, its that her mother seems to have decided on a "STEM genius child prodigy" brand for this child when she was a toddler, and the girl has had to follow that "road map" regardless of her own actual interests or abilities. Playing with legos does not equal "a lifelong passion for engineering," and putting a 12 year old child on TV claiming to be a genius who has known since the age of 4 that she was destined to be a NASA engineer, is not helpful when she actually has no idea if she even likes engineering. A few months after those interviews, the child who "has always known she'd be a NASA engineer not matter what," dropped out of her very first engineering class within weeks. Why set her up for that kind of embarrassment???

All that publicity meant she had to instantly pivot to a new, equally prestigious and impressive "destiny" in order to maintain the "brand." What is the point of forcing a child with limited education and limited life experience to not only decide on a career at the age of 12 or 13, but also put it out there on national media as what she was "born to do" for everyone to see forever?

When Caleb Anderson's mother was asked what advice she would give to parents of other gifted kids, she said "Parent the kid you've got, not the one you wanted." Alena's mother seems to have done the exact opposite of that, and that's where the criticism is coming from.

 

 

 

[livetoread]

24 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I also may be naieve (and Canadian) but I find myself also questioning (a-b) that there really are that many conscious and strategic white supremacists, imbedding themselves and following a subtle and coordinated media-manipulation strategy like that. I like to think that true bigots are few and far between, and that they have difficulty hiding their true colours in work settings, and that they are largely unintelligent and hopefully badly coordinated. (Do I need to start questioning that presupposition?)

While I don't see this particular instance being an example of the type of media manipulation in question, I, for one, absolutely think that in the US there are entire, popular networks based on that strategy. However they aren't subtlely putting stuff out hoping someone debunks - they are blatantly playing on the fears Sneezyone mentioned - that minorities are gaining too much power and will replace white people and their "culture". White supremacy has resurged in the US in a big way lately, though many promoting it wouldn't see it that way.

Edited July 26, 2022 by livetoread

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

There have been stories about white males doing this kind of thing, and people judging the parent plenty througout the last few decades. There were even tv shows and such about the idea. 

Name ONE. Seriously. ONE.

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The implication that people here are only criticizing this story because the child is black, and would never say the same things if the story was about a white child, is totally off base. No one is "shredding" Caleb Anderson's parents for "creating opportunities" for a gifted black child by letting him attend Georgia Tech at 13, or questioning whether that's what he really wanted to do. And there has been plenty of criticism here of white families who were pushing their kids into early college as teens regardless of whether it was really the best choice for the child, and using that experience for publicity. In fact there were very similar criticisms of the Letham parents for pushing their kids through basic, unchallenging, box-checking curriculum in order to get them into college early just for the sake of being early, for choosing their kids' major for them (which, coincidentally, was engineering at ASU), and for the fact that the kids did not seem to be as "college ready" at 14 as their parents claimed since they admitted to rewriting their kids essays for them.

What people are criticizing in THIS particular story isn't that a black child is being given opportunities to pursue her interests, its that her mother seems to have decided on a "STEM genius child prodigy" brand for this child when she was a toddler, and the girl has had to follow that "road map" regardless of her own actual interests or abilities. Playing with legos does not equal "a lifelong passion for engineering," and putting a 12 year old child on TV claiming to be a genius who has known since the age of 4 that she was destined to be a NASA engineer, is not helpful when she actually has no idea if she even likes engineering. A few months after those interviews, the child who "has always known she'd be a NASA engineer not matter what," dropped out of her very first engineering class within weeks. Why set her up for that kind of embarrassment???

All that publicity meant she had to instantly pivot to a new, equally prestigious and impressive "destiny" in order to maintain the "brand." What is the point of forcing a child with limited education and limited life experience to not only decide on a career at the age of 12 or 13, but also put it out there on national media as what she was "born to do" for everyone to see forever?

When Caleb Anderson's mother was asked what advice she would give to parents of other gifted kids, she said "Parent the kid you've got, not the one you wanted." Alena's mother seems to have done the exact opposite of that, and that's where the criticism is coming from.

I don't even KNOW Caleb Anderson. Do you? Do you know him? Have you interrogated his family? Do you *KNOW* any of these people? I don't. It's a stupid, simple, feel good story turned into an excuse to bash others. It's wrong.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

True, but many people here have posted about their gifted toddler and been told to slow down. 

 And I can attest that the “why rush to college” voices are loud here, too, as is the idea that lower level college classes are a waste of time (forgetting that box ticking has to happen somewhere) and that only upper level university classes are valid. Even when you’ve been on the forums for years. There’s a reason I mostly talked about L’s path on the AL forum. My local forums…we’ll, I’ve been really quiet there. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Dmmetler

[Catwoman]

15 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

And, yet again, the white politesse police jump in to sanction/delete my words regardless of how they're framed/said/expressed. LOVE IT! I'm super, extra special that way. This is cray. Don't y'all ever get tired of curtailing speech? It never fails to surprise and disgust the way some comments are ALWAYS reported regardless of their civility, lack of cursing/personal attacks or speech. Offending white folks is enough. EVERY TIME. Fragility, thy name is WTM.

The only person who made this thread about race is YOU. 

None of us cared about the 13yo girl's race. It had nothing to do with the discussion. The girl and her mom (and the personal branding expert) certainly used the girl's race as a PR selling point to help her gain more fame and publicity -- and money for her apparently-fake charity, as well -- but that wasn't what we have been discussing here at all. And you know it.

If anyone is trying to "curtail speech" here, it's you. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

And, yet again, the white politesse police jump in to sanction/delete my words regardless of how they're framed/said/expressed. LOVE IT! I'm super, extra special that way. This is cray. Don;t y'all ever get TIRED of curtailing speech?

I feel bad for you. I know you're angry but also this discussion seems to have also been hurtful to you.

I haven't posted yet, because giftedness is such a complex topic, and being PG can be a disability as much as anything. I think once I knew there was PR involved, I was reluctant anyway. 

It's hard, I think, for all of us, me included, to properly think from another perspective.

I definitely can see that what is salient in a story will differ, and what is salient to me (branding/SE wellbeing of gifted kids) is salient in a way that is different to you (branding/family assertively making room for bright young Black girl). That's interesting and I can see how my concern, were I to express it, could validly be considered patronizing  and infantilizing of a Black family. I think that's what you mean by 'not your place'?

I think I would feel similarly (concern) for a white early entrant whose family were using a branding expert, but I can't know, because it hadn't been brought to my attention. 

I can hear that the bringing to attention has its own set of problems.

I find it very hard to see from the perspective that the media attention is part of a deliberate strategy of white supremacism. I think...that media is pretty amoral and is run by the clicks. I can see how her story could be exploited for the clicks and no care given that this may or may not make her a target of racists. 

I'm also really not sure that the problem with the branding is sour grapes aka a Black girl got what my (mixed) kids didn't. Mainly because I wouldn't ever have chosen to do that. Not on my radar, not my personal philosophy. 

I can see the perspective there's a privilege in choosing not to do that for our white kids. 

Anyway. Hope that's right-trackish. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Name ONE. Seriously. ONE.

 

Real life, recent https://www.valleynewslive.com/2022/04/26/child-prodigy-13-year-old-set-graduate-with-bachelors-degree-this-year/

a bit older https://www.yahoo.com/now/9-old-prodigy-dropped-college-193946393.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACmCq_CifOe1UFFPY8k0pFQ6Iso4_re7sxkO8W-_3an1oI4M9IKMMRvOCfeg2M9i8s0MGWPK9IhWx76J_i4qCutm64i0FQGh1Y5liBvBP_tJeOOKB8Z3mQRF0mgvEmny4Ummgyj5iVahqFwvMlorlKsCkhVnslPGv8uJ-DVROSRf

list of movies about child prodigies, most are fiction https://flickside.com/child-prodigy-movies/

The TV show Doogie Howser sparked a lot of talk about the subject, way back when

None of these have quite the media impact - again likely due to the way news is now 24/7, advent of social media, and the mom hiring a branding/publicity person, etc

But it's been a topic of controversy since I can remember. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

53 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

While I value and appreciate your experience, and grew up with a narcissistic parent, I DO NOT share your view WRT long-distance diagnosis. The presentation of narcissism is VERY different based on cultural identity and I don't think you're well-equipped to state that with confidence. Furthermore, pimping out a kid vs. publicizing their achievements to assistant with academic expenses is in the eye of the beholder.

I completely agree with you that there are differences in cultural identity at play here that will impact how we perceive this story, and I appreciate you pointing that out.

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It's a stupid, simple, feel good story turned into an excuse to bash others. It's wrong.

So basically, any feel-good story should be absolutely fine, even if much of it is a lie?

What about the dozens (or perhaps even more) completely conflicting feel-good stories about this same girl? Are they absolutely fine, too? Is it also absolutely fine to falsify and exaggerate achievements and awards in order to "help" your kid become famous and to "help" her receive further opportunities and accolades that she hasn't earned?

And are you really perfectly fine with the idea of a mother hiring a "personal branding expert" for a 3 year-old toddler, and keeping that person in her employ for over 10 years? Because I'm not ok with it, and many others here are not ok with it, either. A 3-year old -- and even a 13 year-old -- is a child, not a brand.

[Jaybee]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:12 PM, TechWife said:

I think the fact that she’s admitted to medical school really means nothing - she didn’t have to go through a separate med school application process. Frankly, there aren’t enough slots for capable people to go to med school and it irks me that she will be taking one of them. Is she really that self aware and mature that she’s ready to make a lifelong commitment to extensive training and a career. If she enters med school at 15, graduates at 18 - she is supposed to be able to know what specialty she wants to practice for the rest of her life at 18? I honestly can’t see how she would match to a residency. She would have to have one stellar med school experience. I think most residency programs would see her maturity as a disadvantage for all the reasons people have stated here. At 13 she’s barely out of puberty and into adolescence. I don’t care how smart she is - she has a lot of biological and emotional growing up to do. 

Caveat: I have only read this far (pg. 2) so far. I'm trying to look at this objectively and encouragingly. She may do astoundingly well, and I wish her the best. On the personal level, though, I'm struggling with this bolded part. Someone dear to me was not accepted into the same medical school at 23, although that person had good MCAT scores, 4.0 GPA for both university and Master's programs (Master's in Public Health from UAB), had lived overseas a number of years in a variety of countries, had worked for a couple of years in a research lab at UAB while getting Master's, and was encouraged by the lab prof that they would have no trouble getting into the med school, and yet, they were not accepted. (This person is currently in 4th year at another medical school.) They were from out-of-state, but had lived and worked in-state for two years, and spouse was in-state. So I feel a bit peeved about this situation.

[Danae]

There are a class of people that have publicists and branding experts from the time they are toddlers:  people whose families are already rich and/or famous.  
 

Maybe this mom is a narcissist pushing an agenda on her daughter.  We don’t know.  Maybe she’s just trying to grab advantages for her kid in a somewhat different way than some of us would.  Networking and getting noticed are a big advantage.  As are things like legacy admissions and family connections.  Where do you draw the line at what’s just smart to take advantages of the resources you have available and what’s inappropriate?  Is it wrong to reach for advantages rather than being born with them?

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Jaybee said:

Caveat: I have only read this far (pg. 2) so far. I'm trying to look at this objectively and encouragingly. She may do astoundingly well, and I wish her the best. On the personal level, though, I'm struggling with this bolded part. Someone dear to me was not accepted into the same medical school at 23, although that person had good MCAT scores, 4.0 GPA for both university and Master's programs (Master's in Public Health from UAB), had lived overseas a number of years in a variety of countries, had worked for a couple of years in a research lab at UAB while getting Master's, and was encouraged by the lab prof that they would have no trouble getting into the med school, and yet, they were not accepted. (This person is currently in 4th year at another medical school.) They were from out-of-state, but had lived and worked in-state for two years, and spouse was in-state. So I feel a bit peeved about this situation.

Keep reading — the story changes. 😉 

As it turns out, the kid wasn’t actually accepted into medical school (white doctor’s coat in her photo notwithstanding.) Let’s just say that quite a few of this family’s claims aren’t exactly true… there are lots of inconsistencies and exaggerations. 

@Corraleno found out a ton of additional information that you’ll be reading soon if you keep reading the thread. 

[Sneezyone]

27 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I feel bad for you. I know you're angry but also this discussion seems to have also been hurtful to you.

I haven't posted yet, because giftedness is such a complex topic, and being PG can be a disability as much as anything. I think once I knew there was PR involved, I was reluctant anyway. 

It's hard, I think, for all of us, me included, to properly think from another perspective.

I definitely can see that what is salient in a story will differ, and what is salient to me (branding/SE wellbeing of gifted kids) is salient in a way that is different to you (branding/family assertively making room for bright young Black girl). That's interesting and I can see how my concern, were I to express it, could validly be considered patronizing  and infantilizing of a Black family. I think that's what you mean by 'not your place'?

I think I would feel similarly (concern) for a white early entrant whose family were using a branding expert, but I can't know, because it hadn't been brought to my attention. 

I can hear that the bringing to attention has its own set of problems.

I find it very hard to see from the perspective that the media attention is part of a deliberate strategy of white supremacism. I think...that media is pretty amoral and is run by the clicks. I can see how her story could be exploited for the clicks and no care given that this may or may not make her a target of racists. 

I'm also really not sure that the problem with the branding is sour grapes aka a Black girl got what my (mixed) kids didn't. Mainly because I wouldn't ever have chosen to do that. Not on my radar, not my personal philosophy. 

I can see the perspective there's a privilege in choosing not to do that for our white kids. 

Anyway. Hope that's right-trackish. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was, indeed, reluctant b/c I’m not a proponent of extra attention and yet it hardly gets a four page investigative thread when it’s a different kid/family. It’s assumed that this stuff is in their wheelhouse. It is upsetting that folks can’t see that this happens over, and over, and over again whenever there’s a story about black exceptionalism.

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Real life, recent https://www.valleynewslive.com/2022/04/26/child-prodigy-13-year-old-set-graduate-with-bachelors-degree-this-year/

a bit older https://www.yahoo.com/now/9-old-prodigy-dropped-college-193946393.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACmCq_CifOe1UFFPY8k0pFQ6Iso4_re7sxkO8W-_3an1oI4M9IKMMRvOCfeg2M9i8s0MGWPK9IhWx76J_i4qCutm64i0FQGh1Y5liBvBP_tJeOOKB8Z3mQRF0mgvEmny4Ummgyj5iVahqFwvMlorlKsCkhVnslPGv8uJ-DVROSRf

list of movies about child prodigies, most are fiction https://flickside.com/child-prodigy-movies/

The TV show Doogie Howser sparked a lot of talk about the subject, way back when

None of these have quite the media impact - again likely due to the way news is now 24/7, advent of social media, and the mom hiring a branding/publicity person, etc

But it's been a topic of controversy since I can remember. 

NONE of these stories merited a thread here, Katie. NONE. As ‘college graduates’ they, too could have been admitted to this program and promoted as a result. NONE of them got threads. NONE. Why is that, these stories are written every year without fail.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I was, indeed, reluctant b/c I’m not a proponent of extra attention and yet it hardly gets a four page investigative thread when it’s a different kid/family. It’s assumed that this stuff is in their wheelhouse. It is upsetting that folks can’t see that this happens over, and over, and over again whenever there’s a story about black exceptionalism.

As I've repeated several times already, there have been SEVERAL threads here in the past, just as long as this one, about homeschooling parents pushing their kids into college as young teens, for reasons that seemed to be more about bragging rights than what was in the best interests of the children. Please point me to all the threads where it happens "over and over and over again" that people here, on this board, trash black kids or families for their achievements.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

As I've repeated several times already, there have been SEVERAL threads here in the past, just as long as this one, about homeschooling parents pushing their kids into college as young teens, for reasons that seemed to be more about bragging rights than what was in the best interests of the children. Please point me to all the threads where it happens "over and over and over again" that people here, on this board, trash black kids or families for their achievements.

A) this is hardly a homeschooling family and b) I’ve been here for 10 years and can’t find a similar thread dissecting a homeschooling family for promoting their kid but I’m open to links to the contrary. And c) when I say exceptionalism I mean EXCEPTIONALISM. Black man lies to LEOs, multiple day discussion. Black man shoots cop, multiple day thread. Black woman sues college, SCANDAL!! It’s a thing. The fact that you claim to not even know this is a black girl is beyond my comprehension. These stories don’t get this level of reach without the ‘huh’ factor.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

We’ve had these conversations before. Even down to criticizing the academic rigor of the colleges the kids went to. And people were just as critical, rightly so, I think.

When DD was in kindergarten and clearly working several grades ahead, her teacher encouraged me to go deep with her knowledge and interests instead of accelerating when the  school was pushing to consider jumping her to third grade at the age of 6.  I’m glad we did that, though DD sets her own pace now and I just follow Lol.

 

[SanDiegoMom]

This is a thread I remember when I had joined this community to research homeschooling before I even started, in 2014.  An earlier, similar thread started off positively, and then took a turn as the questions of depth and rigor took over. 

Honestly I would be surprised to read anything else from this board -- when I came looking for acceleration information for my gifted kid, after reading these boards I became a convert to going deep rather than fast  and spending time following rabbit trails.  I internalized the idea of only radically accelerating if I HAD to.  

 

[Corraleno]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

A) this is hardly a homeschooling family and b) I’ve been here for 10 years and can’t find a similar thread dissecting a homeschooling family for promoting their kid but I’m open to links to the contrary.

Alena repeatedly says in her interviews that she was homeschooled for part of elementary, then went back to PS, did 5th grade in PS, then "unschooled" all of 7th-12th in two years and graduated as a homeschooler at 12.

5 page thread about a white family who decided when their kids were young that they would all get engineering degrees from ASU as teenagers:

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/667635-graduating-college-at-18-with-a-co-chosen-major/page/5/#comment-7996622

Edited July 26, 2022 by Corraleno

[Sneezyone]

34 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

We’ve had these conversations before. Even down to criticizing the academic rigor of the colleges the kids went to. And people were just as critical, rightly so, I think.

When DD was in kindergarten and clearly working several grades ahead, her teacher encouraged me to go deep with her knowledge and interests instead of accelerating when the  school was pushing to consider jumping her to third grade at the age of 6.  I’m glad we did that, though DD sets her own pace now and I just follow Lol.

 

What I said was, in other contexts the same people demonizing this family would be cheering. Those threads bear that out. You don’t see me going after ideologically consistent posters but I appreciate the links, thanks. They’re equally enlightening. I’m just tired of the foolishness. Black parents can’t win for losing. If they push their kids they’re evil narcissists and if they don’t they’re  uncaring losers who don’t care about education. Pick a lane and stick with it.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

What I said was, in other contexts the same people demonizing this family would be cheering. Those threads bear that out. You don’t see me going after ideological consistency.

If you actually read the threads you'll see that they were definitely not all "cheering," many people were asking the same questions they've asked in this thread about the value of having smart kids do a lot of box-checking just for the sake of getting to the finish line sooner, so they can brag and write books about having kids in college at 12. There was a lot of criticism in particular about the father of the Letham family doing his kids a huge disservice by predetermining their STEM paths and pushing them through low level coursework to get to the end as quickly as possible. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

If you actually read the threads you'll see that they were definitely not all "cheering," many people were asking the same questions they've asked in this thread about the value of having smart kids do a lot of box-checking just for the sake of getting to the finish line sooner, so they can brag and write books about having kids in college at 12. There was a lot of criticism in particular about the father of the Letham family doing his kids a huge disservice by predetermining their STEM paths and pushing them through low level coursework to get to the end as quickly as possible. 

I’m talking about SPECIFIC posters, not the forum. I held back because I have mixed feelings myself. The usuals confirmed my own concerns. The concerns were primarily about self-determination, which I share, but NOT about intelligence or capacity for learning—kid is probably too stupid anyway. THAT is the tone I got from this thread.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[maize]

53 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I was, indeed, reluctant b/c I’m not a proponent of extra attention and yet it hardly gets a four page investigative thread when it’s a different kid/family. It’s assumed that this stuff is in their wheelhouse. It is upsetting that folks can’t see that this happens over, and over, and over again whenever there’s a story about black exceptionalism.

Mm, I distinctly remember a couple of threads over the years about homeschooling families whose kids graduated from college at a young age. There was a lot of negativity in those threads because the kids' degrees were from mediocre schools and lots of folks on this board seem to be opposed to acceleration through a mediocre path. One girl in those earlier threads had graduated from medical school and was the youngest serving doctor in the military--Navy I think--but that was still a path to be despised.

Edited July 26, 2022 by maize

[Katy]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

What I said was, in other contexts the same people demonizing this family would be cheering. Those threads bear that out. You don’t see me going after ideological consistency.m but I appreciate the links, thanks. They’re equally enlightening. I’m just tired of the foolishness. Black parents can’t win for losing. If they push their kids their evil narcissists and if the don’t their uncaring losers who don’t care about education. Pick a lane and stick with it.

I have/had a college friend who went to the same program for kids I did. She is younger.   I say had because I don’t think I’ve talked with her off of social media in 15 years.  She’s black. She became a doctor. I think her mom is still a doctor and her dad is retired but was some kind of engineer. Her child is gifted too but has had some setbacks due to a major illness. I do remember her complaining that she never felt like she fit in anywhere, but I seriously doubt anyone accused her parents of pushing. It was evident to everyone she was a genius. Quiet, studious, and brilliant.

I somehow doubt anyone would be doing much but cheering if it wasn’t for the PR agent. DH said, “Welcome to the way the game is played these days.” So.. for whatever it’s worth he agrees with you. He’s looking at it more from a sports perspective than a gifted kid one I think. 

I do remember the threads about the Swanns. 

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, maize said:

Mm, I distinctly remember a couple of threads over the years about homeschooling families whose kids graduated from college at a young age. There was a lot of negativity in those threads because the kids' degrees were from mediocre schools and lots of folks on this board seem to be opposed to acceleration through a mediocre path. One girl in those earlier threads had graduated from medical school and was the youngest serving doctor in the military--Navy I think--but that was still a path to be despised.

Did you read the threads again? Most of the issues are WRT to the parents choosing a path, not questioning the talent or intelligence of the child or calling them narcissists, which happened here, repeatedly. Read them again. I am not making this up. Whatever. I’m finishing my dinner and going to bed.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don’t think that we know how capable the girl is. And if she’s just taken easy courses that check boxes, neither she or her mom might know know either. I don’t think that anyone has said or even implied that she’s dumb. The question was whether she’s actually accelerated in the way that they imply. If she’s bright and motivated that will still serve her very well in life. Honestly the pressure of “fulfilling your potential “ for a PG kid can be crushing. And many buckle under that pressure. So my hopes (as a stranger from the sidelines) is that she be able to succeed in life in a way that will give her stability and happiness. 
 

btw- I am against legacy spots and family connections. I am also against people gaming the system like those caught in the college admission scandals. 

[Catwoman]

27 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

What I said was, in other contexts the same people demonizing this family would be cheering. Those threads bear that out. You don’t see me going after ideological consistent posters but I appreciate the links, thanks. They’re equally enlightening. I’m just tired of the foolishness. Black parents can’t win for losing. If they push their kids they’re evil narcissists and if they don’t they’re  uncaring losers who don’t care about education. Pick a lane and stick with it.

You are so desperate to make this thread about race that it's actually kind of bizarre.

None of us would be cheering about any mom of any race who hired a personal branding expert for her 3yo. None of us would be cheering about any mom of any race who has spent years spearheading a PR and personal branding campaign for her young dd, and who has changed the entire narrative multiple times as it suits her purposes. And as far as the kid goes, she claims to have been "simultaneously unschooled" through both middle school and high school, which doesn't even make sense, and her academic achievements and "awards" seem to be highly suspect. And none of us would be cheering about any mom of any race who fabricated and exaggerated her child's accomplishments in order to get her featured in media stories.

None of us blames the child. We all hope she turns out great and that she's very successful in her life. We do, however, question the mom's motivations, and we are concerned that the kid is caught in the middle of her mom's bizarre need for her dd to be famous for being "the youngest" whatever -- that's a lot of pressure to put on a kid! 

Instead of being so obsessed with proving that we are all a bunch of racists, how about actually reading the information here about this child, her mom, and the personal branding expert? Do you really support what this mom has done? Are you also ok with the falsehoods and exaggerations? Do you truly think it's perfectly fine and normal for a mom to hire a personal branding expert to promote, publicize, and craft a "brand" for a 3 year-old toddler?

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but this thread has not been about this child's race. We would have felt sorry for her and criticized her mother no matter what their race. And we would have pointed out the inconsistencies in their stories and the oddities in the kid's education no matter what their race. Because race has nothing to do with this discussion -- or at least it didn't, until you showed up and started shaming people.

 

[Catwoman]

28 minutes ago, Katy said:

I have/had a college friend who went to the same program for kids I did. She is younger.   I say had because I don’t think I’ve talked with her off of social media in 15 years.  She’s black. She became a doctor. I think her mom is still a doctor and her dad is retired but was some kind of engineer. Her child is gifted too but has had some setbacks due to a major illness. I do remember her complaining that she never felt like she fit in anywhere, but I seriously doubt anyone accused her parents of pushing. It was evident to everyone she was a genius. Quiet, studious, and brilliant.

I somehow doubt anyone would be doing much but cheering if it wasn’t for the PR agent. DH said, “Welcome to the way the game is played these days.” So.. for whatever it’s worth he agrees with you. He’s looking at it more from a sports perspective than a gifted kid one I think. 

I do remember the threads about the Swanns. 

I remember the threads about the Swanns, too. They were pretty dramatic, to say the least. 😉 

Blast from the past alert! 

For anyone who wasn't here back then and are wondering what we're talking about, here's the mom's book:

https://www.amazon.com/Looking-Backward-Twenty-Five-Homeschooling-Mother-ebook/dp/B004TH1D38/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3INUULXVQGCH3&keywords=Swann+homeschooling+book&qid=1658877328&sprefix=swann+homeschooling+book%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-6

And here's her daughter, Alexandra's book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003K16NCU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

You are so desperate to make this thread about race that it's actually kind of bizarre.

None of us would be cheering about any mom of any race who hired a personal branding expert for her 3yo. None of us would be cheering about any mom of any race who has spent years spearheading a PR and personal branding campaign for her young dd, and who has changed the entire narrative multiple times as it suits her purposes. And as far as the kid goes, she claims to have been "simultaneously unschooled" through both middle school and high school, which doesn't even make sense, and her academic achievements and "awards" seem to be highly suspect. And none of us would be cheering about any mom of any race who fabricated and exaggerated her child's accomplishments in order to get her featured in media stories.

None of us blames the child. We all hope she turns out great and that she's very successful in her life. We do, however, question the mom's motivations, and we are concerned that the kid is caught in the middle of her mom's bizarre need for her dd to be famous for being "the youngest" whatever -- that's a lot of pressure to put on a kid! 

Instead of being so obsessed with proving that we are all a bunch of racists, how about actually reading the information here about this child, her mom, and the personal branding expert? Do you really support what this mom has done? Are you also ok with the falsehoods and exaggerations? Do you truly think it's perfectly fine and normal for a mom to hire a personal branding expert to promote, publicize, and craft a "brand" for a 3 year-old toddler?

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but this thread has not been about this child's race. We would have felt sorry for her and criticized her mother no matter what their race. And we would have pointed out the inconsistencies in their stories and the oddities in the kid's education no matter what their race. Because race has nothing to do with this discussion -- or at least it didn't, until you showed up and started shaming people.

 

God bless you too.

[Catwoman]

15 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I don’t think that we know how capable the girl is. And if she’s just taken easy courses that check boxes, neither she or her mom might know know either. I don’t think that anyone has said or even implied that she’s dumb. The question was whether she’s actually accelerated in the way that they imply. If she’s bright and motivated that will still serve her very well in life. Honestly the pressure of “fulfilling your potential “ for a PG kid can be crushing. And many buckle under that pressure. So my hopes (as a stranger from the sidelines) is that she be able to succeed in life in a way that will give her stability and happiness. 
 

btw- I am against legacy spots and family connections. I am also against people gaming the system like those caught in the college admission scandals. 

I will admit to having posted that the girl seemed less than impressive in the interviews I saw. And others pointed out that her vocabulary and sentence structure seemed far different in her live interviews than in her written interviews -- it was noticeable enough that there were questions about who actually wrote the written commentary. 

But I don't think anyone thinks the girl is stupid. Just because we may not believe that she's the most intelligent girl on the planet, doesn't mean we don't think she's a bright kid. That's not the issue at all. The issue is more that she is promoted as being incredibly brilliant and incomparably advanced, and her publicity info even compares her to Bill Gates, as though she is already such a successful entrepreneur and philanthropist (which -- spoiler alert -- she isn't. And she shouldn't be, because she is only 13!) It's these kind of exaggerations and the lies about her having already been accepted into medical school and engineering school, and the questionable descriptions of her coursework, that we have focused upon. For all we know, the kid might actually be bright enough to be accepted, but it hasn't actually happened.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

God bless you too.

You can be as snarky as you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that you are accusing the people posting in this thread of something that simply isn't true. 

We usually get along pretty well, but I don't know what's going on with you in this thread. 😞 

[Sneezyone]

13 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

You can be as snarky as you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that you are accusing the people posting in this thread of something that simply isn't true. 

We usually get along pretty well, but I don't know what's going on with you in this thread. 😞 

I said how I felt and you launched a personal screed. Ain’t nobody got time or patience for that.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

I said how I felt and you launched a personal screed. Ain’t nobody got time or patience for that.

You're entitled to your opinion about that, but you have been the one who has been accusatory and snarky since you started posting on this thread. 

Oh well. Whatever. Carry on. There's no point in arguing about it.

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

You're entitled to your opinion about that, but you have been the one who has been accusatory and snarky since you started posting on this thread. 

Oh well. Whatever. Carry on. There's no point in arguing about it.

Go back and Read EVERY post I made. Objectively. Your comment is pure bullshit. It’s par for the course here, unfortunately. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Go back and Read EVERY post I made. Objectively. You’re comment is pure bullshit. It’s par for the course here, unfortunately. 

If you're going to start cursing about it, please don't address me in any more of your posts in this thread. I won't be responding to you.

If you have a problem with my posts, please feel free to report me to the moderators. I think this has been an interesting and informative thread, and I don't want to derail it with personal attacks. I hope we can just agree to disagree, and let it go.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

The fact that you claim to not even know this is a black girl is beyond my comprehension. These stories don’t get this level of reach without the ‘huh’ factor.

I never claimed I didn't know she was black, her photo was in the original story, and in every other story I've read about her. You clearly have me confused with someone else.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Corraleno

[maize]

The Swanns, the Hardings, and the Lethams are all accelerate-through-college families that have inspired heated discussion on these forums, much of it critical. Talk of parents pushing kids, parents not letting kids have a childhood, parents making decisions about what their kids should study, kids getting a mediocre education and box-checking degrees.

This thread is far from unique in bringing out such critiques on this board.