13 year old admitted to medical school

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

I honestly found her interview sad. She seemed uncomfortable and even with lots of leading questions, didn’t have much at all to say. She said she would study astronomical and planetary science and her major would be chemistry? So not engineering, even though she says in the interview she wants to be an engineer at NASA when she finished college at 16. She didn’t make clear she would be attending classes online, although she did say she chose ASU due to it’s curriculum. And as for her Lego project, I’m perplexed about what’s amazing about building something from a kit? It’s not like she designed and built the Millennium Falcon with Legos from scratch.

She also seemed to stumble over the words when she was telling the host about her major at ASU. She seemed uncomfortable to me, too, and it's not like the hosts were peppering her with challenging questions -- they were incredibly kind and only asked softball questions.

The Lego thing made no sense at all.

I feel sorry for the girl, because I think her mom has done her an incredible disservice.

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

She simultaneously unschooled middle school and high school? Oh my. 

Um...what kind of gobbledygook is that? There are no "levels" in unschooling, so that's not even a thing. Like..what?

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

It's interesting that her bio never lists any substantive accomplishments, just that she "founded a charity" (with lofty goals but nothing to show for it) and she's the "youngest ever" to do XYZ (which in every case turns out to be a purposely and rather artificially created "accomplishment").

This blurb from her bio for that event pretty much sums it up: "Alena has received international acclaim through her features in Good Morning American, The Kelly and Ryan Show, Black Entertainment Television, and a host of news outlets throughout the world."

So her main accomplishment is  basically just garnering a lot of publicity, thanks to the professional "brand expert" her mother hired when she was a toddler.

Yup, she wants to be famous for being famous. No actual achievements required.

And really, it's her mom that's behind all of this. The kid is too young to be making these decisions on her own. And because she has been groomed for this since she was a toddler, she probably has no semblance of reality; she only knows what her mom and her personal branding expert have been feeding her since she was 3.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Um...what kind of gobbledygook is that? There are no "levels" in unschooling, so that's not even a thing. Like..what?

Excuse me, but if her personal branding consultant says it's a thing, then it's a THING, ok???

😉 

[EKS]

How is it that people are falling all over themselves giving her opportunities?  I'd be interested to know what they're seeing that we aren't.

[Jean in Newcastle]

17 minutes ago, EKS said:

How is it that people are falling all over themselves giving her opportunities?  I'd be interested to know what they're seeing that we aren't.

I think that will change once she’s not really young  and cute anymore. This isn’t a knock on her. Just the reality that just as her mom might be using her, those who sponsor her are also using her. 

[Corraleno]

56 minutes ago, EKS said:

Here's another interview, where something she says makes it obvious that she needed to do remedial math (using ALEKS)

The ASU Universal Learner classes in Basic College Math, College Algebra, and Precalculus use ALEKS. The calculus classes use Gradarius, so she was not taking calculus.

It's funny that the interviewer asks the audience how many people could learn "307 math topics," like that's something only a genius could do, when she's talking about a level of math that virtually all of the audience would have covered in HS.

[Tree Frog]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

It's funny that the interviewer asks the audience how many people could learn "307 math topics," like that's something only a genius could do, when she's talking about a level of math that virtually all of the audience would have covered in HS.

I thought she did a very good job of interviewing her and smoothing over awkward moments. I thought I saw a few eye rolls, though. I wondered if she really wanted to do the interview while I was watching it. 

[Frances]

51 minutes ago, EKS said:

How is it that people are falling all over themselves giving her opportunities?  I'd be interested to know what they're seeing that we aren't.

Well lots of people gave Elizabeth Holmes tons of money and positive press and the early naysayers were dismissed. She told people what she wanted them to believe to be true, just as this girl’s mom and PR person are doing. The people interviewing her, at least the ones I’ve watched, generally seem clueless, as she’s not really saying anything impressive.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Frances

[EKS]

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

Well lots of people gave Elizabeth Holmes tons of money and positive press and the early naysayers were dismissed. She told people what she wanted them to believe to be true, just as this girl’s mom and PR person are doing. The people interviewing her, at least the ones I’ve watched, generally seem clueless, as she’s not really saying anything impressive.

True.

I'm not convinced that the people interviewing her are clueless.  I suspect that they're probably confused.

But I guess I was more talking about NASA and the medical school.

[ktgrok]

I'm betting mom was gunning for a reality show or at least a book out of this. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and ANY 6th grader and up can take college courses via dual enrollment here. You don't have to be all special special - just be ready for the class. It generally isn't taken advantage of until highschool, but it is done on occasion. Without national tv interviews or brand experts, even!

[Corraleno]

56 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

She also seemed to stumble over the words when she was telling the host about her major at ASU. She seemed uncomfortable to me, too, and it's not like the hosts were peppering her with challenging questions -- they were incredibly kind and only asked softball questions.

All the in-person interviews cover the exact same ground, often with considerable prompting from the host: she loves legos, she liked looking at the stars as a kid and has wanted to work for NASA since she was 4, she handles her huge (?) course load by being very organized, she founded Brown STEM Girls to help other girls like her. The only thing that really varies is what her major is, which seems to depend on whether the interview was done before or after she actually tried an engineering class.

She never talks about what she's studying or shows any enthusiasm or passion for the things she's allegedly been super passionate about her whole life. She comes across as a bored, awkward, academically average tween who's just going through the motions of a performance that was written for her by someone else — and that she's really not well suited to. 

I think she's likely to hit a wall very soon, as she gets past the low level, automatically graded, easy-A classes and gets into upper level courses that are tough for almost everyone, even at a not-very-challenging school. And then what? When your whole identity has been "child prodigy / STEM genius" since you were a toddler, and there's hundreds of interviews and articles out there about how you're going to be a NASA engineer at 16 or doctor at 18, what happens when you find out that you're really just a pretty average kid with a crazy mom? What does that do to your sense of self? How secure is she going to feel about her mother's love if she can't perform the role her mother scripted for her practically from birth?

[Frances]

Just now, EKS said:

True.

I'm not convinced that the people interviewing her are clueless.  I suspect that they're probably confused.

But I guess I was more talking about NASA and the medical school.

Well the NASA thing appeared to be just one guy who read about her and reached out. It’s not clear what she actually did as an intern.
 

The early medical school thing seems a bit more perplexing, although it doesn’t appear their admission criteria are very rigorous and as @Corralenonoted, she can choose which ASU grades appear on her transcript, which I doubt the admission committee knew, since it is so unusual. And she hasn’t yet taken the more challenging pre-med classes. Plus, the money the mom has paid for the branding expert has obviously paid off. I’m guessing any hesitation they felt after interviewing her was overshadowed by her many “awards” and “accomplishments”. Plus, they probably like the publicity, just as most certainly Oakwood and ASU do also. 

[PaxEtLux]

27 minutes ago, EKS said:

I'm not convinced that the people interviewing her are clueless.  I suspect that they're probably confused.

 

I agree that the interviewers are not clueless, but what's an interviewer going to do?  Verbally beat up a 12 year old?

Keep in mind a lot of these interviewers have an agenda as well -- not to expose the truth, but to tell a feel-good story that inspires others and keeps people watching for more.

Edited July 26, 2022 by PaxEtLux
missed an important "not"

[PaxEtLux]

21 minutes ago, Frances said:

Well the NASA thing appeared to be just one guy who read about her and reached out. It’s not clear what she actually did as an intern.

 

Reading between the lines, and applying some critical thinking, it seems clear to me that this wasn't what we'd think of as a typical high school or college summer internship, that pays a reasonable wage, requires 9 to 5 attendance in person at some office, and lasts for a couple of months.  In all the interviews, she never mentions what she did.  Sounds to me  like some mid-level manager reached out to her, and offered her a day tour and maybe an honorary "internship", and some swag.

Again, NASA has an agenda, too, as an agency subject to the whims of elected officials, they are well aware that they, too, have to market themselves, and look good, and do outreach.

[Corraleno]

I think the "brand team" have been able to maintain the illusion so far because a lot of the hype is based on articles that list lots of "accomplishments" that most people wouldn't know are not what they seem, combined with statements from "her" that are really written by someone else.

So the NASA guy sees an article saying she's a genius who graduated HS at 12 (without mentioning that her diploma came from mommy with zero verification of coursework), has been accepted to the engineering program at ASU (without mentioning that she's really just taking classes open to everyone and has never had an engineering class yet and doesn't actually know anything about it), has set up a "foundation" to support girls of color in STEM (without mentioning that it's not really a charity and doesn't actually do much), and that she has all these awards (that actually have nothing to do with science or real accomplishments), etc., so he sends an email, which her mother or "brand specialist" replies to in her name, that makes her sound really smart and articulate, so he sets up a little "internship" for her and lets her play around at NASA for a few weeks, and then she posts the photos all over her social media as proof that she's "mentored by a NASA scientist." 

And with the Early Assurance program... I wonder how many premed applicants they even get from a tiny Adventist school with 1600 students? All she would need would be one or two instructor there to think "whoa, this kid is taking college classes at 12, she must be a genius," so they write glowing letters about this prodigy and all her awards, and then the admins at Oakwood think this sounds like great publicity and push the application through. I would bet anything that she doesn't end up going to medical school, that she will pivot once again when the classes get too hard, and will ultimately end up in a career where the criteria for success are less objective and more easily fudged.

[EKS]

19 minutes ago, PaxEtLux said:

I agree that the interviewers are not clueless, but what's an interviewer going to do?  Verbally beat up a 12 year old?

I wasn't suggesting that interviewers call her out, if that's what you mean.  I was mostly thinking that if interviews (private interviews) were a part of whatever process has gotten her internships, offers of admission to med school, etc, that it would be obvious to those people that something was up.

[EKS]

8 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I would bet anything that she doesn't end up going to medical school, that she will pivot once again when the classes get too hard, and will ultimately end up in a career where the criteria for success are less objective and more easily fudged.

Strongly agree.  And what's so sad is that she will probably feel like a failure, when in another context her accomplishments (the real ones) would be something to be proud of.

Edited July 26, 2022 by EKS

[Lawyer&Mom]

21 minutes ago, EKS said:

Strongly agree.  And what's so sad is that she will probably feel like a failure, when in another context her accomplishments (the real ones) would be something to be proud of.

Given the odds that her mom is a narcissist, the odds of her feeling like a failure, medical school or no medical school, are high…

[PaxEtLux]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

I wasn't suggesting that interviewers call her out, if that's what you mean.  I was mostly thinking that if interviews (private interviews) were a part of whatever process has gotten her internships, offers of admission to med school, etc, that it would be obvious to those people that something was up.

 

Oh, I see what you are saying now -- I thought you meant the public interviews at events.

I think the NASA "internship" was just a one day visit/tour without an interview or big vetting process beforehand.  I mean, if one introductory engineering class was enough that she wanted to pivot away from engineering, she really couldn't have been exposed to much engineering in this "internship".  And how would this work with a 12 year old -- the NASA office wasn't in her home town, so did she and her Mom move there for several months?

ASU is an enormous school, I don't think they require in-person interviews.  The Med School thing, though, surely required interviews, and that, I must admit, confuses me.  I think a lot of medical schools have early assured admissions, where if you continue to meet GPA/MCAT/coursework criteria as an undergrad, you are guaranteed admissions.  This allows students to pursue electives that create more rounded doctors, without them feeling like they need to take 100% pre-med classes.

I do feel sorry for her, because I fear that between Organic Chemistry and/or the MCAT, there's going to be a hard reckoning coming soon.

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that will change once she’s not really young  and cute anymore. This isn’t a knock on her. Just the reality that just as her mom might be using her, those who sponsor her are also using her. 

Honestly, one of the major reasons why I dislike seeing this kind of publicity is that every kid I know who was getting publicity as a pre-teen got to an age at about 13-14 where they really, really didn’t want to be known as “cute kid who did x” anymore, but want to be taken seriously, not as the youngest, but just as one of the group. In the online group I'm on, there are several who have come through the other side and now have adult children in the 20+ range who are starting to be willing to represent their companies/organizations once they're past grad school and professionals, and might make "40 under 40 lists", maybe, but had a good decade of trying to blend on, not stand out. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Dmmetler

[Corraleno]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

I wasn't suggesting that interviewers call her out, if that's what you mean.  I was mostly thinking that if interviews (private interviews) were a part of whatever process has gotten her internships, offers of admission to med school, etc, that it would be obvious to those people that something was up.

The UA Early Assurance program doesn't seem to require an interview prior to selection — just a 3.5 GPA and three letters of recommendation, 2 from science instructors and 1 from any other advisor. After the selection process there's an interview with the selected students, but if that raised any doubts with the committee, she would have already had the "med school acceptance" letter in hand to send to magazines and news organizations.

[Katy]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, and ANY 6th grader and up can take college courses via dual enrollment here. You don't have to be all special special - just be ready for the class. It generally isn't taken advantage of until highschool, but it is done on occasion. Without national tv interviews or brand experts, even!

Do you have a link to learn about this?  Does it apply to homeschoolers?  Do the community colleges not have waitlists for nursing programs there?

[Clarita]

4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

So the NASA guy sees an article saying she's a genius who graduated HS at 12 (without mentioning that her diploma came from mommy with zero verification of coursework), has been accepted to the engineering program at ASU (without mentioning that she's really just taking classes open to everyone and has never had an engineering class yet and doesn't actually know anything about it), has set up a "foundation" to support girls of color in STEM (without mentioning that it's not really a charity and doesn't actually do much), and that she has all these awards (that actually have nothing to do with science or real accomplishments), etc., so he sends an email, which her mother or "brand specialist" replies to in her name, that makes her sound really smart and articulate, so he sets up a little "internship" for her and lets her play around at NASA for a few weeks, and then she posts the photos all over her social media as proof that she's "mentored by a NASA scientist." 

I just want to put it out there that if you want something like this for your kid you should attempt to just ask. Find someone in the profession that your kid is interested in and ask. Especially STEM fields engineering, science, finance... There is a good chance that professional would be happy to set up a shadow day or something. 

Companies don't often want to set up things where 100s of kids or people tromp through their offices, but don't actually mind a few accompanied minors on site. As an engineer once I didn't have that much extra time to market and ask kids if they are interested in what I do (I don't really want to search for the 1% of children who are sort of interested in what I'm doing). I actually tried to volunteer a few times to speak at schools and stuff about my career, I was never chosen. (We don't all work for Tesla and we are not all entrepreneurs. 🤷‍♀️)

[rebcoola]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

Do you have a link to learn about this?  Does it apply to homeschoolers?  Do the community colleges not have waitlists for nursing programs there?

For nursing programs yeah but not general Ed or even most other application programs.

[TexasProud]

nm

Edited July 26, 2022 by TexasProud

[regentrude]

18 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Hey guys.  Just wondering if maybe this thread should be deleted and conversation should go to one of the off board group.  I am sure her "branding expert" has already found this. I don't really care about that. But what about the girl herself. This thread would be devastating to her. It could be easily found.

If somebody has built a media presence, has an Instagram page, is giving interviews, and has made national news, they can be certain they are being discussed widely all across the internet - and they want that. That's the price for fame. This is between the kid, the "branding expert" and the parents.

Edited July 26, 2022 by regentrude

[TexasProud]

nm don't want to be canceled

Edited July 26, 2022 by TexasProud

[livetoread]

I think it has been sensitively discussed. People have questioned but also expressed compassion for the girl. I have zero doubts that if the branding consultant and/or the girl are monitoring discussions around her, there are many out there that are racist, brutal, and disgusting. This would be refreshing in comparison.

Edited July 26, 2022 by livetoread

[Catwoman]

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

**Deleted by request

Reprisal? From whom?

I have no intention of deleting any of my posts, and I hope no one else does, either. This girl's mother and her personal branding expert are trying to pull a fast one here, and I think it's the kind of thing that should be exposed. 

There are plenty of genuinely brilliant kids who are doing genuinely impressive and amazing things, but this girl does not appear to be one of them. This poor kid has been pimped out by her mother since she was a toddler, and it's sickening. Her mother wants this kid to be famous for something -- anything, probably -- and seemingly will twist the truth (and I'm being polite here) in order to gain unfair and undeserved advantages for her child -- and accolades for herself.

Also, when I talk about the things the girl is doing, I fully recognize that she is only a pawn and and actor in this mess. Her mom and the branding expert are the puppetmasters here, and I don't blame the girl for going along with this scam, because she has never known a different life. I'm reserving my judgment of her for at least a few more years, when she's old enough to recognize what is going on; if she's still a willing participant in telling these lies at that point, then I will blame her, too. But now? No. She's only 13 years old.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Catwoman
TexasProud deleted her posts from the thread, so I deleted the quote here for her

[EKS]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

But I also worry about being labeled racist for calling some of this into question.

This is probably why the emperor is still unclothed.

[TexasProud]

Please delete all my comments from this thread.

[Catwoman]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

If somebody has built a media presence, has an Instagram page, is giving interviews, and has made national news, they can be certain they are being discussed widely all across the internet - and they want that. That's the price for fame. This is between the kid, the "branding expert" and the parents.

 

53 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I think it has been sensitively discussed. People have questioned but also expressed compassion for the girl. I have zero doubts that if the branding consultant and/or the girl are monitoring discussions around her, there are many out there that are racist, brutal, and disgusting. This would be refreshing in comparison.

I agree, and it's also important for the mom and the branding expert to realize that not everyone is gullible enough to fall for their lies and misrepresentations. 

If anything, I would be happy if people who were curious about this girl and her so-called achievements, are able to find this thread. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Please delete all my comments from this thread.

Why are you worried about this?

You have done nothing wrong!!! 

None of us have done anything wrong!

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Please delete all my comments from this thread.

I don't have a NARC bone in my body and everything about this thread makes me uncomfortable. I've never seen so much investigative energy expended on exposing similar claims from similarly promoted children/families.

[EKS]

53 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I've never seen so much investigative energy expended on exposing similar claims from similarly promoted children/families.

I can't remember seeing a similarly promoted family since the Swanns.  And I do remember discussions similar to this at that time.

[itsheresomewhere]

I do worry for the girl’s mental health.  It will be a hard fall if she fails/burns out and I don’t get the impression that the mom will be the supportive rock she will need from the start.  
 

We didn’t start DD with college early as we could have due to I wanted her to have time to mature and just enjoy life.  It might have been considered a mistake to some but for us, I still feel it was best. 

[Dmmetler]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I don't have a NARC bone in my body and everything about this thread makes me uncomfortable. I've never seen so much investigative energy expended on exposing similar claims from similarly promoted children/families.

Sadly, I have. I've been attacked enough times as a mom with a kid who ticked a lot of "gifted kid" boxes and, frankly, lucked into a lot of opportunities and who really didn't seek out publicity to understand that this how it works. I decided against joining MENSA when the newspaper printed an article about the "youngest ever" member in the local chapter, and I realized that I had test scores in hand that would beat that at an earlier age, and if I'd tried to go to them-as was suggested by the psychologist-for support, my kid would be used for advertising,and forever more, that would be a Google hit. 

But other stuff...well, my kid started a local club at age 9 and won a few minor awards here and there, co-wrote a book with a retired English teacher, published on Amazon and sold to raise funds for Herp conservation. Had a professional herpetology mentor at age 8-9 and started going to conferences, and won a place in the society mentoring program for high school students (because said mentor was on the board). Audited a college class by professor invitation at age 8. Presented an award winning talk at a state conference at age 10 (admittedly, the research was much more school science fair level, and the award was made up by the committee.) Started college classes at age 11. Started teaching classes as a junior instructor at Athena's at age 12 (by invitation). Was the one non-Journaljsm major who got to write for the college magazine. Was accepted as a US delegate and presenter to the Worpd Congress of Herpetology. Won a scholarship to a fancy private college to finish the BS and do the MS. Was involved with graduate work, and in the first year was a secondary author on multiple journal submissions and a contributor to a thesis. (Because that was how they managed "completed all required math classes, but needs a math credit to meet the liberal arts requirements-here's a psych major who struggles with statistics. Help her analyze and make sense of her research data, and we'll count it to your degree). Is presenting at JMIH in two days. 

 

Oh-and freezes up and comes out not at all smart or articulate sounding in conversation unless it's a couple of specific topics. 2e is real, ya'll.

If I'd sought out publicity, like at all, I have little doubt L could have been another "kid prodigy" story. And I would have had people in comment sections calling me a pushy parent, drama queen, etc and critiquing that L's work couldn't possibly be their own or that they're a trained monkey because of their inability to handle social situations and tendency to flee like a frightened anmal when questions are asked.  I've gotten enough of that just in local groups and homeschool forums like this one when I've tried to help and support other parents to make me very glad that the absolute peak of L's publicity was being on the Gatorland Youtube channel publicizing their "keeper for the day" shadowing program. 

 

To me, this 13 yr old reads as a fairly typical kid-if typical is "kid you meet at Davidson Young Scholars or PG Retreat" Mom homeschooled, hit her limits, connected with some resources and followed some ideas (have your kid start a non-profit! Write a book! Build a website! Find someone to mentor them!), found ASU earned admissions, kid started in Engineering because they like building things, discovered that didn't work well, took bio, liked it, stuck with bio, took classes at a second school (and if they offered routes for labs other than cramming a full course into a week, that would be enough for me), heard about the medical college early admit program, thought that sounded cool because she's 13 and doesn't know what to do yet, and she wants to please her advisor and her mom. The Branding consultant is a little odd, but might be mom's best friend or Aunt Suzy and just helping as she can. Or it might be that mom started getting publicity and wanted help In managing it. 

 

What I don't see is a not-smart kid who is being manipulated to suit her mother's wishes, a kid who obviously has been cheating because she can't possibly be doing the work herself, or anything else that has been alleged. Starting college math with math that could easily be high school? Yeah, I had L do that. Both because there were math courses required to graduate high school, and college algebra ticked that box without my having to give credit for math completed at age 9-10, and to give success at the beginning. Starting with an easy math course gave my kid time to learn to college because the content wasn't new or particularly challenging after AoPS. And math is one area that you really don't have much concern about the content being perfectly appropriate for young adults, but not for tweens who aren't at that stage of life yet, but are perfectly capable of reading and writing papers. That's not a red flag. That's pretty common among early college kids. 

 

 

 

[Catwoman]

Just now, itsheresomewhere said:

I do worry for the girl’s mental health.  It will be a hard fall if she fails/burns out and I don’t get the impression that the mom will be the supportive rock she will need from the start.  
 

We didn’t start DD with college early as we could have due to I wanted her to have time to mature and just enjoy life.  It might have been considered a mistake to some but for us, I still feel it was best. 

I feel the same.

And we did the same thing you did -- we wanted our ds to enjoy his life, and not rush to complete his degrees super early and start working when most kids would just be entering college. 

Our kids only get one childhood. Why hurry so much to turn our children into mini-adults? They will have decades of work and stress as adults, so why not let them be kids instead of accelerating them into all kinds of extra responsibilities and burdens? If they're advanced and they want to learn new things, they can do all that without the added pressure of earning university degrees in their early to mid-teens -- and then, when they are a few years older, they can also enjoy the fun, social aspects of being in college without being way too young to participate.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No one is (that I have seen) is against this girl. They are, however, expressing concern for her and making some possible predictions of her having a hard time in the future. I was initially more positive but the only thing I had seen was the People article posted. Then once I read that my newsfeed got inundated with other articles about her and a different picture emerged. No investigative skills necessary. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

16 minutes ago, EKS said:

I can't remember seeing a similarly promoted family since the Swanns.  And I do remember discussions similar to this at that time.

Back around 2014-2015, the Harding family of the Brainy Bunch book was discussed here. The discussions were definitely similar in tone and nature.  The parents in that case insisted though that none of the kids were geniuses—they just homeschooled “efficiently.”

https://www.news24.com/amp/you/news/international/the-brainy-bunch-these-parents-sent-their-10-kids-to-university-before-the-of age-of-13-20211125

Edited July 26, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Jean in Newcastle]

Oh and personally, I can “predict “ that the girl will be less cooperative with the publicity campaign as she gets older and might hit a wall IF her skills have been overstated while simultaneously wishing that she finds a good niche for  her skills and interests and also hopefully happiness in life. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Jean in Newcastle
Typo

[Dmmetler]

Just now, Catwoman said:

I feel the same.

And we did the same thing you did -- we wanted our ds to enjoy his life, and not rush to complete his degrees super early and start working when most kids would just be entering college. 

Our kids only get one childhood. Why hurry so much to turn our children into mini-adults? They will have decades of work and stress as adults, so why not let them be kids instead of accelerating them into all kinds of extra responsibilities and burdens? If they're advanced and they want to learn new things, they can do all that without the added pressure of earning university degrees in their early to mid-teens -- and then, when they are a few years older, they can also enjoy the fun, social aspects of being in college without being way too young to participate.

Because when your kid is absolutely miserable because they can either have content at the right level or peers, it's an untenable situation. Sometimes early college is the least bad option. It was here. And we had a decided advantsge-college educated and grad educated parents, grandparents and mentors in the specific field, who knew what was to come and could advise as a result. Because believe me, if we'd left it up to the college advisors, L would have finished at the community college at age 13 or so, transferred to the state U, and likely gotten a BS before a driver's license. 

 

[Sneezyone]

19 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I do worry for the girl’s mental health.  It will be a hard fall if she fails/burns out and I don’t get the impression that the mom will be the supportive rock she will need from the start.  
 

We didn’t start DD with college early as we could have due to I wanted her to have time to mature and just enjoy life.  It might have been considered a mistake to some but for us, I still feel it was best. 

I know lots of people like this and I don't disagree. Which is why I stayed out of it to this point. The tone shifted and I felt it, just as TexasProud did, and it's not like we see eye to eye. I'm not interested in canceling those views, OK? I'm not the one reporting threads ad nauseam but I haven't felt there was a genuine concern for or interest in this young lady either. Just tearing the family down. In other contexts, many of the posters here would be decrying the lack of interest in education and advancement among families like hers. I am uncomfortable, that's all, with the inconsistency.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[regentrude]

27 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Our kids only get one childhood. Why hurry so much to turn our children into mini-adults? They will have decades of work and stress as adults, so why not let them be kids instead of accelerating them into all kinds of extra responsibilities and burdens? If they're advanced and they want to learn new things, they can do all that without the added pressure of earning university degrees in their early to mid-teens -- and then, when they are a few years older, they can also enjoy the fun, social aspects of being in college without being way too young to participate.

Because with some kids, a university environment is the only way for the kid to find peers they relate to and course content that is challenging enough.
Because some kids are withering when they do not have enough challenge, and solitary study at home does not satisfy their need to relate to scholars and academic (not same-age) peers.
Because being in a college environment as a teen can be great fun and perhaps the first time in their life that they make friends.

ETA: I have not spent time looking into the kid discussed in this thread and have no idea if she is one of those. But I can tell you those kids do exist.

Edited July 26, 2022 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

Navigating life with someone highly gifted and 2E is a series of trying to make the best choices you can without always knowing what those best choices are. Even with hindsight. There is no real blueprint for kids who fit neither round holes or square ones. 
 

My own experience as a mom of a 2e kid is that you get pulled along whether you want to be or not. They simply can’t do things at a slower pace. 
 

Mt own experience as someone who was offered a straight phd track at age 18 is that life can be amazingly unpredictable. I was sidelined- not by overestimating my skills but by illness. 
 

My takeaway as a middle aged woman is that we do the best we can, try to feed our brains and try to fill our lives with truly kind friends and family . And in my case, try to follow God’s plans as He gives me opportunities often outside my comfort zone. I hope that the girl has a genuinely kind mom. My concern is that that might not be the case. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

I can't remember seeing a similarly promoted family since the Swanns.  And I do remember discussions similar to this at that time.

I don't know the Swanns and never heard of them. I generally give 'feel good' stories a wide birth regardless of their origins. It certainly never occurred to me to diagnose a parent as narcissistic and toxic based on advancing their kids. What about Tiger Woods' father, Brooke Shields' mother, the exemplars for parent-advocates go on and on. Three pages of crap? Worth it? No. The proof will be in the pudding. I appreciate that this parent is trying to help her child be successful. The means/ends may not be what I'd do but is it enough to rake them over the coals? No. Nothing is stopping any of us from pursuing similar opportunities for our kids.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Jean in Newcastle]

51 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I don't know the Swanns and never heard of them. I generally give 'feel good' stories a wide birth regardless of their origins. It certainly never occurred to me to diagnose a parent as narcissistic and toxic based on advancing their kids. What about Tiger Woods' father, Brooke Shields' mother, the exemplars for parent-advocates go on and on. Three pages of crap? Worth it? No. The proof will be in the pudding. I appreciate that this parent is trying to help her child be successful. The means/ends may not be what I'd do but is it enough to rake them over the coals? No. Nothing is stopping any of us from pursuing similar opportunities for our kids.

Did I imagine it or did you use Brittney Speare's parents as examples of good parents before you edited?  I had a good laugh. 

I have no idea if this mother is wrong for advancing her kid to this degree.  I don't find parental encouragement and advancement an issue in and of itself as long as the child is in the driver's seat.  I do find the branding expert to be strange though and possibly problematic for a child.  It's not wrong to recognize that some parents do push their kids in ways that are unhealthy. 

As I said before, time will tell.  This girl has had a lot of opportunities with the help of her mother.  Hopefully they are enriching to her life.  I don't think that it's possible to completely "armchair diagnose" her abilities or her potential.  But I also recognize how people can be taken in by slick advertising and this girl seems to be managed by marketers who are good at it and for some people that can be a turn -off even while some people lap it up.  (This is the same kind of marketing of personalities that you object to so much for the British royal family only applied to a "prodigy". ) 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Did I imagine it or did you use Brittney Speare's parents as examples of good parents before you edited?  I had a good laugh.

That was all in your imagination, sorry. I don't follow Brittney Spears unless it's disability/mental health advocacy related. There are issues I follow WRT guardianship, financial and otherwise, for personal reasons. Parental advocacy (to include branding support) isn't new. The Kardashians are a prime example. It's not my wheelhouse or preference but it's hardly noteworthy. The language WRT 'pimping' the child was particularly offensive. No one has to like what this family is doing but it's their lives, not mine.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Sneezyone