What do you think of, say, liquor stores pulling Vodka?

[Ginevra]

In solidarity for Ukraine? I’m definitely not 1/10th as knowledgeable as some of you are about the political maneuvering going on, but these type of responses feel to me like theater and symbolism, but not really effective. Does it make any difference to Putin if a handful of liquor stores in the US pull Russian liquors from the shelves? It doesn’t seem like it to me. 

[Lecka]

I don’t think it makes a difference to Putin, but maybe it makes a difference to the Ukrainians.  

[SKL]

Well it's like I just changed my outside blinky lights to yellow and blue.  I do think it encourages more awareness and encourages those who are doing more.  Lots of rallies etc. around here this weekend.

 

[El...]

We were just talking about this at dinner. DD14 told me US citizens smashed glass made in Japan after Pearl Harbor. I'm sure it felt cathartic, but then you need new glass, so....

I'd rather they canceled further orders.

[1234]

I would think it would make no difference to Putin but might to Ukrainians. It might also just be about making those business owners feel better about what they’re selling. 

[regentrude]

It's the same as Facebook profile frames with the Ukranian flag. It won't impress Putin. But it sends a signal to the Ukrainians. And it sends a signal within the US that there's no support for Putin...which will give certain public figures pause, and some are already changing their tune.

Edited February 27, 2022 by regentrude

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't think Ukrainians are particularly concerned with Russian vodka on US shelves and I think we're very quick to forget that the average Russian business owner might not be on board with Putin's plans either. They probably don't want to be punished for something they had no say in and can't affect change in.  I mean, if a US president did something with our military that other countries don't agree with,  do you think your business should be punished by the world? Rumor has it everyone in the world isn't thrilled with US military policy abroad, so does that mean non-military related US business owners with international clients should be boycotted worldwide?

I'm temperamentally disinclined to token efforts, grand symbolic gestures, and theatrics; the vodka thing seems to me like it's that kind of thing.  Granted, I don't really know anything at all about the vodka business or business ownership in Russia, but my gut tells me to roll my eyes on this one. 

That said, yes, yes, yes, Ukraine needs our official support because they're a sovereign democratic nation that has been invaded unjustly.  Surely we can come up with something better than attacking the businesses of poor souls living in Russia under Putin's regime. Like they don't have enough crap to deal with.

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Surely we can come up with something better than attacking the businesses of poor souls living in Russia under Putin's regime. Like they don't have enough crap to deal with.

But the only way to oust Putin ( short of his death) is for the situation within Russia to deteriorate to such a degree that he will be overthrown in a coup.

(That- or revolution,  and the bar for that hangs too high, won't happen.) Unless the economic situation in Russia gets bad enough, he will stay in power and pursue his nationalist agenda.

It's sad for the people, sure-  but this is a dangerous autocrat with nukes.

[HS Mom in NC]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But the only way to oust Putin ( short of his death) is for the situation within Russia to deteriorate to such a degree that he will be overthrown in a coup.

(That- or revolution,  and the bar for that hangs too high, won't happen.) Unless the economic situation in Russia gets bad enough, he will stay in power and pursue his nationalist agenda.

It's sad for the people, sure-  but this is a dangerous autocrat with nukes.

I dunno.  Other countries have been sanctioned by the US like Cuba and Iran, but it didn't work as planned.  I'm not so sure only one possible solution (deterioration leading to coup) exists. Besides, we're talking about Russian vodka as tokenism.  I hate that kind of thing.  I'm all for providing things like military weaponry and support for Ukraine. US cyber attacks against Russia are good too.  Vodka is very niche and indirect.

[bibiche]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But the only way to oust Putin ( short of his death) is for the situation within Russia to deteriorate to such a degree that he will be overthrown in a coup.

(That- or revolution,  and the bar for that hangs too high, won't happen.) Unless the economic situation in Russia gets bad enough, he will stay in power and pursue his nationalist agenda.

It's sad for the people, sure-  but this is a dangerous autocrat with nukes.

Agreed. And I’d hazard a guess that vodka enterprises are not held by small artisans but by oligarch owned conglomerates, so I doubt this will harm the little guys. Pouring out Russian vodka seems actually more important and effective than blue and yellow lights and flags (and I am all for that and have them!) because money talks.

Also, even in the extremely unlikely event that it did hurt the little guy… well, Putin obviously doesn’t give a rat’s ass about his people. Making the little guy aware of this is helpful.

[Murphy101]

I think there is one thing Ukraine needs from the US and it’s not a “show of solidarity” - it’s literal military solidarity - preferably as a brand new NATO member.  They are fighting for their literal lives over there, not watching twitter to see how people are symbolically showing support by not buying vodka or whatever. I suggest that we all call and write state representatives and the POTUS to tell them we want US support for Ukraine. 

[KungFuPanda]

All vodka or just Russian vodka? Either way, what are we accomplishing? What brands are even made in Russia????

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm all about practical help and so is Elon Musk apparently.  I mean, can you imagine if this actually happens!? Good on him. https://www.the-sun.com/tech/4777695/elon-musk-spacex-iss-russia-putins-space-chief/

[Murphy101]

13 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

I'm all about practical help and so is Elon Musk apparently.  I mean, can you imagine if this actually happens!? Good on him. https://www.the-sun.com/tech/4777695/elon-musk-spacex-iss-russia-putins-space-chief/

Are there currently any actual Russians on the ISS?  And cyber skills aren’t totally lacking in the west. I would think there’s an option to hack the access to prevent Putin from using ISS as a weapon.

[Ting Tang]

I’m all for it. Maybe it is symbolic, shows you are willing to take a personal financial hit in protest of Putin. 

[Slache]

23 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

I'm all about practical help and so is Elon Musk apparently.  I mean, can you imagine if this actually happens!? Good on him. https://www.the-sun.com/tech/4777695/elon-musk-spacex-iss-russia-putins-space-chief/

This sounds like the plot to an action movie. It's probably already been made.

[Ting Tang]

28 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

All vodka or just Russian vodka? Either way, what are we accomplishing? What brands are even made in Russia????

If there are any? I think it’s great. But lots of Americans have gotten crafty with liquors, lol. 

[HS Mom in NC]

7 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Are there currently any actual Russians on the ISS?  And cyber skills aren’t totally lacking in the west. I would think there’s an option to hack the access to prevent Putin from using ISS as a weapon.

Yes, US cyber attacks against Russia are on the table for Biden. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-presented-options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558 I don't know details about who's on the ISS right now or what cyber options are available should a falling ISS become weaponized by Russia.

[KungFuPanda]

4 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

If there are any? I think it’s great. But lots of Americans have gotten crafty with liquors, lol. 

I think it's just Stoli?  I'm not sure I've ever even had any.  Funnily enough, I actually have some lovely Russian vodka but I got it in a round about, non-store way and wouldn't begin to know how to get my hands on more if I wanted to.  I read that we import three times more Russian crab than vodka.

[Bootsie]

I do not know that it makes any significant difference to Putin, but I think it is a sign of solidarity.  I think many signs of support and solidarity are simply signs and do not have much real impact.  I do think they provide emotional support for groups of people.  Not buying Russian oil would be much more significant.

Some of the governmental sanctions, or lack of them, are surprising to me.  I was supposed to go to St. Petersburg in May 2020--the trip got postponed to 2021 because of COVID--then it was postponed until 2022; about a month ago everything was firmed up for June 2022.   The trip was cancelled on Thursday by the trip coordinator; it was not the US government that said I cannot go to Russia and spend my dollars there.  But if I want to buy a Cuban cigar....

[Melissa Louise]

I'm not a fan of solidarity theatre eg changing your FB filter. This seems a bit like the whole freedom fries thing. Like, not bad, but also, not really material.

Donate money, call your political representatives - that matters more than changing your vodka brand.

[madteaparty]

A bit like “refugees welcome here” signs in neighborhoods with million dollar homes where there is nary a refugee to be found and moreover long time locals can’t find anything to rent either. 
 

[Pawz4me]

9 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I think there is one thing Ukraine needs from the US and it’s not a “show of solidarity” - it’s literal military solidarity - preferably as a brand new NATO member.  They are fighting for their literal lives over there, not watching twitter to see how people are symbolically showing support by not buying vodka or whatever. I suggest that we all call and write state representatives and the POTUS to tell them we want US support for Ukraine. 

Well, I don't know about the bolded. I wouldn't discount the power of social media. I think lots and lots and lots of Ukranians probably ARE watching --

 

[Carrie12345]

I don’t think bar and store owners believe they’re being “effective”. They’re doing what they feel moved to do.  Yellow ribbons didn’t do jack for Desert Storm, but we covered the country in them, and we felt something when we saw them.

Dh went to the liquor store yesterday and vodka was nearly empty. At the time, we chalked it up to all the other shortages, but now it makes some more sense. It didn’t occur to me before but, yeah, I would have felt weird realizing we’d bought Russian vodka.  Not like I was actively and intentionally betraying Ukraine, but… ick.

Feelings are fine. Taking a symbolic action is fine. Sticking a flag on social media is fine. Struggling with how to express ourselves is normal. And getting backlash for it is, sadly, also normal.

[HomeAgain]

10 hours ago, Quill said:

In solidarity for Ukraine? I’m definitely not 1/10th as knowledgeable as some of you are about the political maneuvering going on, but these type of responses feel to me like theater and symbolism, but not really effective. Does it make any difference to Putin if a handful of liquor stores in the US pull Russian liquors from the shelves? It doesn’t seem like it to me. 

It's not supposed to matter to Putin.  It's supposed to show solidarity and a business ethic.  It's like the same reason I don't shop at Hobby Lobby.  It's not going to change their bottom line, but it's a question of personal ethics and what I am willing to support in my life.

It's only 2-3 vodkas sold in the U.S. that are made in Russia and they are quite large companies, but then the question is, what about ones made with Russian commodities but distilled in other countries, like Latvia?  That makes Stoli and others off the shelf.

I'm honestly slightly worried about the little shops in the U.S. that sell exclusively Russian goods. If there is a boycott, these little places are family owned and put in a tenuous position.  Is it better to support them, at the cost of doing business with Russia, or better to let them fail, and assume a moral high ground?  I think everyone loses then.

[TravelingChris]

We never buy Russian vodka.  We buy American, I believe,.  Vodka is not one of the alcohols that makes a difference as to who made it like there is no reason to buy expensive vodka.  Wines, beers, whiskey, etc yes but not vodka.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm not a fan of solidarity theatre eg changing your FB filter. This seems a bit like the whole freedom fries thing. Like, not bad, but also, not really material.

Donate money, call your political representatives - that matters more than changing your vodka brand.

Yeah I’m not a big fan of changing one’s FB filter. Part of the reason is: when do you then change it back to a picture of your dog or your garden? Suppose there is a protracted state of war; suppose allies are brought in. 
 

It’s like when people changed it to the French flag because of the Charlie Hebdo attack. It just seemed like a bandwagon thing. 

[regentrude]

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm not a fan of solidarity theatre eg changing your FB filter. This seems a bit like the whole freedom fries thing. Like, not bad, but also, not really material.

Donate money, call your political representatives - that matters more than changing your vodka brand.

One can do both. 

Solidarity signs are helpful. I grew up behind the Iron curtain - it helped to see expressions of solidarity from the people in the free world. It didn't change the facts on the ground, but it made one feel less abandoned. 

Signals matter, good or bad. When our regime leader visited North Korea, Romania and China in the same spring, that was a signal to the people,  a bad one. When the West German socialist party motioned to recognize us as a sovereign state, that hurt. Signs of solidarity from the world mattered very much to us, even though they didn't free us.

We have few things we can do to express the shock and outrage. I see things like changed fb pictures as an attempt to express that, when words fail. It is a way of showing each other that we share in the grief. That's important,  too. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by regentrude

[Selkie]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Well, I don't know about the bolded. I wouldn't discount the power of social media. I think lots and lots and lots of Ukranians probably ARE watching --

 

Yes. I am in online groups with many Ukrainians and they are expressing how grateful they are to feel so much support from around the world.

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t think bar and store owners believe they’re being “effective”. They’re doing what they feel moved to do.  Yellow ribbons didn’t do jack for Desert Storm, but we covered the country in them, and we felt something when we saw them.

Dh went to the liquor store yesterday and vodka was nearly empty. At the time, we chalked it up to all the other shortages, but now it makes some more sense. It didn’t occur to me before but, yeah, I would have felt weird realizing we’d bought Russian vodka.  Not like I was actively and intentionally betraying Ukraine, but… ick.

Feelings are fine. Taking a symbolic action is fine. Sticking a flag on social media is fine. Struggling with how to express ourselves is normal. And getting backlash for it is, sadly, also normal.

I think this is correct. Dumping or refusing to consume vodka doesn't do a thing for Ukraine except that this can be a show of solidarity to our elected officials that we expect them to get in there and beat Russia back. We need symbols to remind us to nag our elected bobbleheads to death about NOT doing more for Ukraine, not doing more about Russia. We need symbols that will remind of what is important, keep this in the forefront of the national psyche.

[bibiche]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yeah I’m not a big fan of changing one’s FB filter. Part of the reason is: when do you then change it back to a picture of your dog or your garden? Suppose there is a protracted state of war; suppose allies are brought in. 
 

It’s like when people changed it to the French flag because of the Charlie Hebdo attack. It just seemed like a bandwagon thing. 

So keep your picture of a dog. 🤷🏻 

I get what you’re saying about the bandwagon thing, performative activism, etc. but sometimes a little thing like changing a FB filter or putting up a sign will actually make people stop and think and learn. Some people do it because it makes them feel less helpless. Ideally they do other things too. 
 

After 9/11 people all over the world held vigils and lit candles in an act of solidarity and collective grief. I think that shows of support for Ukraine are similar. 

[Dmmetler]

Sid is ready to go provide air support. Unfortunately, I don't have any real dragons to send.....

[marbel]

A Google search brought up loads of articles about vodka and where it is actually made. Seems the bottle of Smirnoff that's been in my freezer for a year is made in the US. 

 @regentrudeI appreciate your point of view in this. I would not necessarily have thought these things mattered to people actually on the ground. I've tended to see the Facebook frames, etc as a bandwagon thing. 

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Sid is ready to go provide air support. Unfortunately, I don't have any real dragons to send.....

Loving Sid!!

[bolt.]

People in the modern world consistently underestimate the actual effectiveness of theater and symbolism. Those things are powerful cultural currency. Solidarity comes in a lot of forms, but 'knowing who knows' and 'knowing who cares' are not impractical or intangible parts of resilience. They can be truly backbone issues. (Of course, practical things help to, But theatre is not nothing.)

[VickiMNE]

56 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Yes. I am in online groups with many Ukrainians and they are expressing how grateful they are to feel so much support from around the world.

Absolutely this.  We live in the Balkans and know quite a few people in Ukraine; they are VERY appreciative of knowing that people all around the world are behind them with words, actions, and prayers.  As are the people in the nations around them (Romania, Poland, Moldova in particular) who are *welcoming* the refugees streaming in.

 

And, for those in Russia, they are getting a completely different story.  I emailed a young friend studying in Volgograd.  Her response Saturday afternoon: 

Quote

From what I hear here, I don't think that the war will start and that everything will be over soon.

This is an adept, savvy young woman, a scientist, who obviously has heard a different story.  The "everything" refers to "the peacekeeping mission" that Russia is doing in the Donbas region.  SO.  For those in Russia who manage to get *outside* the system (via internet/radio/tv)  and see the solidarity of public sentiment denouncing Putin's aggression can make an impression.  We want Russians to see the true actions and nature of Putin's "peacekeeping".

 

 

[Kassia]

30 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

 @regentrudeI appreciate your point of view in this. I would not necessarily have thought these things mattered to people actually on the ground. I've tended to see the Facebook frames, etc as a bandwagon thing. 

Me too

[Grace Hopper]

It’s a Do You Hear the People Sing move, as much as lighting buildings and flying Ukrainian flags. I think it’s fine!

The vodka itself is a sunk cost. It’ll sit on back room shelves and hopefully before long will be pulled back out when some creative bartenders come up with Russian defeat themed cocktails. 

[Grace Hopper]

13 hours ago, regentrude said:

It's the same as Facebook profile frames with the Ukranian flag. It won't impress Putin. But it sends a signal to the Ukrainians. And it sends a signal within the US that there's no support for Putin...which will give certain public figures pause, and some are already changing their tune.

💯

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Yes. I am in online groups with many Ukrainians and they are expressing how grateful they are to feel so much support from around the world.

I think you misunderstand me.  By all means show support. But if we want to do something effective - we can actually DO some things that may cause change. 

25 minutes ago, bolt. said:

People in the modern world consistently underestimate the actual effectiveness of theater and symbolism. Those things are powerful cultural currency. Solidarity comes in a lot of forms, but 'knowing who knows' and 'knowing who cares' are not impractical or intangible parts of resilience. They can be truly backbone issues. (Of course, practical things help to, But theatre is not nothing.)

I would agree with that.

[regentrude]

Another thought on the importance of symbolic gestures: if you lost a loved one, you know how important it feels when people express their condolences. It comforts. It makes you feel less alone. It doesn't do anything practical,  but it helps. 

That's essentially the same thing. 

[catz]

I have no problem people and businesses chosing to show solidarity in whatever way works for them at this time.  Some people will call it virtue signaling or jumping on a bandwagon.  🤷‍♀️  I don't assume people are jumping on a bandwagon.  I assume they've thought out what they put up.  Like anti-vaxxers were using some social media photo wraps and stuff.  Don't like their messaging but whatever, yay for freedom of speech. Posting on social media or taking Russian products off of shelves does not preclude from helping in other ways.  We donate heavily to charities and non-profits annually but I wouldn't post about it on a social media platform.  

Our city lit up buildings and bridges in yellow and blue this weekend in support.  Local Ukrainians have expressed appreciation and are sending pictures back home.  Yep, it's a symbol but if it brings some small level of comfort to know there are people thinking of them and supporting them out in the wider world to people caught in the conflict, I see that as a good thing.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by catz

[catz]

In related news, a Ukranian Chorus opened Saturday Night Live last night ...

 

[Murphy101]

18 minutes ago, catz said:

I have no problem people and businesses chosing to show solidarity in whatever way works for them at this time.  Some people will call it virtue signaling or jumping on a bandwagon.  🤷‍♀️  I don't assume people are jumping on a bandwagon.  I assume they've thought out what they put up.  Like anti-vaxxers were using some social media photo wraps and stuff.  Don't like their messaging but whatever, yay for freedom of speech. Posting on social media or taking Russian products off of shelves does not preclude from helping in other ways.  We donate heavily to charities and non-profits annually but I wouldn't post about it on a social media platform.  

Our city lit up buildings and bridges in yellow and blue this weekend in support.  Local Ukrainians have expressed appreciation and are sending pictures back home.  Yep, it's a symbol but if it brings some small level of comfort to know there are people thinking of them and supporting them out in the wider world to people caught in the conflict, I see that as a good thing.

 

I hate the term virtue signaling. It implies there’s not really any use for virtue. And I strongly think there is. If some shop owner thinks pulling his Russian products will help Ukraine? Well it’s his business. Personally I think he ought to make mark up the price for a soon to be more scarce item and donate the money to a worthy anti-Russian cause to really stick it to the Russians. But that’s my view.

[catz]

16 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I hate the term virtue signaling. It implies there’s not really any use for virtue. And I strongly think there is. If some shop owner thinks pulling his Russian products will help Ukraine? Well it’s his business. Personally I think he ought to make mark up the price for a soon to be more scarce item and donate the money to a worthy anti-Russian cause to really stick it to the Russians. But that’s my view.

I hate the term virtue signaling too but plent of people love to throw that expression around to pooh-pooh other people's actions that they don't like.  

Sure it would be great to change that into a fundraiser of some kind.  My parents owned a bottle shop as I grew up and they used to host like tastings as fundraisers for organizations they believed in.  Removing bottles from the shelves now in solidarity doesn't preclude another use for them later.  They might also make good donations for silent auctions, etc.  My parents held back some things that weren't working on the shelves for direct donation use.  Those donations are tax deductable and businesses that donate are often given recognition at events which is good local word of mouth advertising.  Small business can't always turn on a dime and throw together a meaningful organized fund raiser in short order.  That doesn't preclude a business owner from personal donation, etc.  At a minimum, I assume business owners think it is better for their business to remove for now.  In no way do I think they think it HELPS Ukraine, like where do we get that idea?  I think the business owners think the messaging is good for their business.  And if hearing these stories brings some small comfort to those in the Ukraine, well great.  This is new, business owners may take other/more action as they learn more and are so moved.

It reminds me of the year I participated in a city wide yarn bomb when we were hosting a national event.  SO many couch critics on social media went on about how we should be crafting for charity, the homeless, instead, etc etc etc.  Well I had donated at least 20+ hat knitted, crochted, loomed hats the same  year I did that yarn bomb and all the yarn was out of various scraps out of my basement, most not appropriate for clothing.   The yarn bombs were recycled for other events and still come out occassionally.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by catz

[Grace Hopper]

Re: virtue signaling

A few months ago I was at an event about racial reconciliation issues. A speaker said that a lot of teens get criticized for “virtue signaling,” but that it’s actually important because it lets those in their peer groups know who their allies are, not only for stances related to race, but body image, mental health awareness, etc. And that as adults, our subtle virtue signaling can raise the flag that we are a safe adult should a teen in crisis need a safe helper. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, catz said:

In related news, a Ukranian Chorus opened Saturday Night Live last night ...

 

That’s beautiful! I love choral music.

[Ting Tang]

4 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

It's not supposed to matter to Putin.  It's supposed to show solidarity and a business ethic.  It's like the same reason I don't shop at Hobby Lobby.  It's not going to change their bottom line, but it's a question of personal ethics and what I am willing to support in my life.

It's only 2-3 vodkas sold in the U.S. that are made in Russia and they are quite large companies, but then the question is, what about ones made with Russian commodities but distilled in other countries, like Latvia?  That makes Stoli and others off the shelf.

I'm honestly slightly worried about the little shops in the U.S. that sell exclusively Russian goods. If there is a boycott, these little places are family owned and put in a tenuous position.  Is it better to support them, at the cost of doing business with Russia, or better to let them fail, and assume a moral high ground?  I think everyone loses then.

That is a good point.  I used to pass a little shop that sold nesting dolls.  They were so beautiful.  I think Chinese culture is very beautiful, too, just not the government.  If someone is here in America, I am happy to support them.  They are likely here for a very good reason. 

[SKL]

I can tell you that the Ukrainians I know very much appreciate all signs of support, to the point of tears.  And they have stated that they strongly believe the prayers are helping.  And Zelenzkyy has also stated he believes the prayers from other countries are important.

One of the things Ukrainians worry about is having religion banned / severely controlled under Russian rule, which they have experienced before under Russian rule. 

If they say prayers and symbols have meaning to them, then they are meaningful.

I believe it takes extraordinary guts and motivation for the non-military Ukrainians to stand their ground and fight.  I really believe that the symbols and prayers are helping to provide needed encouragement and making an actual difference on the ground.

Of course I also want it followed up with tangible support, but I can't control that aspect of things.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

2 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I think you misunderstand me.  By all means show support. But if we want to do something effective - we can actually DO some things that may cause change. 

I would agree with that.

Yes.  If it doesn't effectively make the change happen, it's a waste.
No one is saying don't show any solidarity of any kind.  My point is: stop with poorly thought out gestures that have the potential to punish innocent victims at worst and that do nothing substantive to the guilty at best. It's important we spend our limited resources (time, money, energy, attention) on things that most effectively aid Ukraine in defeating Russia and pushing them back over the border. I don't just want Ukrainians to feel emotions about my support, I want to help them win this war as soon as humanly possible by buying and sending weapons.

That's the potential disconnect symbolic gestures can cause-they lead people to thinking they're aiding Ukraine with a FB.  It's like telling a hungry person, "Be warmed and filled." then doing nothing that actually ends the hunger.  I want the US and all democratic countries to send food, communications, military intelligence, and weapons to Ukraine and cyber slam the Kremlin so it interferes with their military operations.