Ukraine

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

China, FTR, is not led by mad men. It is NOT a democracy and has many issues, especially with Hong Kong and Taiwan and Uyghurs, but the leaders are not insane. *THIS* move is insane. They cracked down on major speculative/investment sectors of their economy last year to emphasize gov't power but are already, slowly, letting up. They're hurting b/c PANDEMIC. Being subject to the same international ostracism that Russia is about to experience isn't what they want/need. They have zero desire to draw more attention to their actions let alone encourage a foreign country to 'recognize' the independence of Taiwan and invade/occupy that territory to 'protect' it while launching missiles onto the mainland. When you sub China for Russia in that example, it's even more clear how unstable Putin is.

Oh I agree completely.  Putin is a very different animal than Xi.  As my dh was saying,, China is evil but they are a meritocracy of evil and evil administrators which is super different than Putin.

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Oh I agree completely.  Putin is a very different animal than Xi.  As my dh was saying,, China is evil but they are a meritocracy of evil and evil administrators which is super different than Putin.

I found it SUPER interesting that POTUS refused to say where China is right now.

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Fortunately, Belarus transferred all their nukes back to Russia in the same way as Ukraine. OTOH, he's clearly a sock puppet for Putin so that makes two mentions of using nukes. 

Right. My concern is that sock puppets without their fingers on the red button, so to speak, will spur the nutjob on causing him to think, "maybe I will push that button". Not good. At this stage NO sock puppets is what we need.

I am wary of Egypt. When we were there, there was a lot of Pro Russia sentiment, and the government is Pro Russia and switched from buying military tech from the US to Russia. If they decide to be a Putin ventriloquist dummy, that could destabilize the region as everyone chooses sides. 

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

 

I just don’t know how this ends.

We need a Johnny Smith. 

[Pam in CT]

re how this conflict lands in the US versus Canada

2 hours ago, bolt. said:

It's interesting to me that Canadians like me seem to be experiencing this as a foreign crisis, with great sympathy for Ukrainians who are being subject to invasion by a foreign power. I immediately began thinking about the UN and international sanctions.

Whereas Americans seem to be experiencing this as somehow closer to home? Thinking about Cuba, and Washington and ICBMs? Is this possibly a remnant of Cold War mentality?

Could some of you speculate with me as-to why you might be experiencing this as 'an event in American history' when I'm experiencing it as 'an event in European history'? Possibly a media-based slant? I'm always fascinated by the differences -- and these posts on this thread are somehow not what I expected. Thoughts?

The Cold War gave us the construct of "proxy war," where the simmering conflict between the international Big Boys got played out in smaller civil war playgrounds.

Something of the reverse of that dynamic is playing out now.  There is a real sense in which what is right now writ LARGE in deadly international consequences is being received here as a sort of projected amplification of our domestic fractures.

Since 2014, Putin's ambitions over and misinformation about Ukraine, and his interference in US democratic processes in pursuit of those ambitions, have by slow degrees brought the US to the point where the single largest-audience media figure * in our country, has been steadily training ~40% of the country to trust a self-declared Dictator for Life over the US president, intelligence community, and military leadership:

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Tucker%3A How will this conflict affect you%3F&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.foxnews.com%2Fv%2F6298540966001

 

 

* At this moment still not a "political figure."

But he will be, in 2024.

https://twitter.com/phyllispollack/status/1496492965442863107?s=20&t=eXWZ7FHhNFmHeFkkf11HeA

 

[frogger]

7 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re how this conflict lands in the US versus Canada

The Cold War gave us the construct of "proxy war," where the simmering conflict between the international Big Boys got played out in smaller civil war playgrounds.

Something of the reverse of that dynamic is playing out now.  There is a real sense in which what is right now writ LARGE in deadly international consequences is being received here as a sort of projected amplification of our domestic fractures.

Since 2014, Putin's ambitions over and misinformation about Ukraine, and his interference in US democratic processes in pursuit of those ambitions, have by slow degrees brought the US to the point where the single largest-audience media figure * in our country, has been steadily training ~40% of the country to trust a self-declared Dictator for Life over the US president, intelligence community, and military leadership:

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Tucker%3A How will this conflict affect you%3F&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.foxnews.com%2Fv%2F6298540966001

 

 

* At this moment still not a "political figure."

But he will be, in 2024.

https://twitter.com/phyllispollack/status/1496492965442863107?s=20&t=eXWZ7FHhNFmHeFkkf11HeA

 

I don't know how they can continually shock me. You'd think I'd expect it by now but I'm continually rendered totally speechless.

 

[Terabith]

Just saw a picture of someone holding their cat in an underground station turned bomb shelter.  The cat looked terrified and was clinging to their person.  

Lord have mercy.  This is just so awful.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1496906522080731139?s=20&t=mWSHsJ7t_yZApTZTnRkewQ

 

Seems a lot of Russians don't want this either 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Innisfree]

3 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1496906522080731139?s=20&t=mWSHsJ7t_yZApTZTnRkewQ

Respect for that courage.

[Faith-manor]

It should be noted that the US has been tense with Russia since violating US air space in Alaska, 2007 if memory serves. Since then Russia has built a military base only 300 miles from Alaska, and has shown renewed aggression in the Arctic as well as beefed up all of their military installations in the Arctic. In response, the US has reinforced Fort Greely, and Eilson AFB, plus the other one whose name I can never remember. The Berring Strait at its narrowest is only 55 miles wide. The Arctic needs protection, and is under dire threat from climate change, something Putin gives exactly a rat's a$$ about.

Most of the world tends to think of the US as the 48 states of the mainland. It is easy to forget that we have a state which sits so close to Russia.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Sneezyone]

18 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1496906522080731139?s=20&t=mWSHsJ7t_yZApTZTnRkewQ

 

Seems a lot of Russians don't want this either 

WHO WOULD?! 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

It should be noted that the US has been tense with Russia since violating US air space in Alaska, 2007 if memory serves. Since then Russia has built a military base only 300 miles from Alaska, and has shown renewed aggression in the Arctic as well as beefed up all of their military installations in the Arctic. In response, the US has reinforced Fort Greely, and Eilson AFB, plus the other one whose name I can never remember. The Betting Strait at its narrowest is only 55 miles wide. The Arctic needs protection, and is under dire threat from climate change, something Putin gives exactly a rat's a$$ about.

Most of the world tends to think of the US as the 48 states of the mainland. It is easy to forget that we have a state which sits so close to Russia.

True. That area is significantly less populated than the areas under threat today tho and the 2007 incursion doesn't justify what we're seeing.

[TexasProud]

2 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

We need a Johnny Smith. 

Got this reference. 🙂For those that don't, he is a character from The Dead Zone a Stephen King book and later tv series.

Edited February 24, 2022 by TexasProud

[Jaybee]

I grew up with the shadows of the USSR fears hanging over us--nuclear fallout shelters and the occasional classes on what to do in case of a nuclear war. Due to growing up in that time period, I have never exactly trusted Russia (the gov't*), no matter what was said or who was in power. I read widely as a child/teenager, and was familiar with the KGB reputation. So while I am saddened and greatly concerned, I am not surprised at what is occurring. Those of us old enough to remember, and who also heard of the oppression of the USSR toward its people and toward the countries as part of the former Soviet bloc, may be feeding some of this concern. The history is there. 

*As to the Russian people in general, I have nothing but concern for them. They have a rich and fascinating history, though often sad, and have suffered much over many years from their various leaders.

[Faith-manor]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

True. That area is significantly less populated than the areas under threat today tho and the 2007 incursion doesn't justify what we're seeing.

Right. But people were questioning why the people of the US is nervous. Well, the proximity to the aggressor is one good reason that is often forgotten.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Right. But people were questioning why the people of the US is nervous. Well, the proximity to the aggressor is one good reason that is often forgotten.

That would affect Canada too tho. Canada is between the mainland and Alaska. lol.

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That would affect Canada too tho. Canada is between the mainland and Alaska. lol.

Yes, so I am surprised Canadians aren't a little bit more concerned about increased Russian aggression. I am not sure why you felt the need to laugh at me. I will bow out of the discussion. I have family in the military, one of whom is someone who may get sent into this conflict - Poland. I don't need people laughing at me.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Yes, so I am surprised Canadians aren't a little bit more concerned about increased Russian aggression. I am not sure why you felt the need to laugh at me. I will bow out of the discussion. I have family in the military, one of whom is someone who may get sent into this conflict - Poland. I don't need people laughing at me.

I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the obviousness of Canada being so close to Alaska and Russia.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Bootsie]

DH has a couple of former students who are from Ukraine.  He is reading what one is posting on his Linkedin account; basically it is saying please let the world know that they are experiencing a full-scale invasion from all directions.  

[Ting Tang]

16 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

I grew up with the shadows of the USSR fears hanging over us--nuclear fallout shelters and the occasional classes on what to do in case of a nuclear war. Due to growing up in that time period, I have never exactly trusted Russia (the gov't*), no matter what was said or who was in power. I read widely as a child/teenager, and was familiar with the KGB reputation. So while I am saddened and greatly concerned, I am not surprised at what is occurring. Those of us old enough to remember, and who also heard of the oppression of the USSR toward its people and toward the countries as part of the former Soviet bloc, may be feeding some of this concern. The history is there. 

*As to the Russian people in general, I have nothing but concern for them. They have a rich and fascinating history, though often sad, and have suffered much over many years from their various leaders.

They are victims, and I feel the same way about the Chinese people. It’s really sad knowing Ukrainians know that nobody is coming to their aid. Sure, we’ve helped, but they are largely on their own. I don’t think Putin cares about sanctions of any magnitude. 

[Roadrunner]

9 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

They are victims, and I feel the same way about the Chinese people. It’s really sad knowing Ukrainians know that nobody is coming to their aid. Sure, we’ve helped, but they are largely on their own. I don’t think Putin cares about sanctions of any magnitude. 

Many are, but I think we shouldn’t ignore the fact that Putin has widespread support in Russia.
I am so happy to see protesters on Russian streets against this war, and I know what risks they are taking coming out to protest, but they remain a minority of the population. Sadly the majority supports Putin.

I know less about China, but I don’t see any real movement here among the emigrés against Chinese authoritarianism. When people from USSR emigrated to US, many became the most outspoken critics of the Soviet regime. Remember Rostropovich playing his cello as Berlin Wall was being dismantled? 

[prairiewindmomma]

Keep in mind, y’all, that in areas where there have been bombings the gas has been shut off to prevent explosions. No heat. Electricity has been cut off in some areas. No lights. No refilling meds at the pharmacy. Gas stations will start running low soon and no refill tankers are coming. Grocery stores are picked over at this point. Some people are home from work (and not getting paid). Some kids are not in school. Things are going to turn into a humanitarian crisis of a large scale very quickly even if the missile strikes were limited. 😞 

[prairiewindmomma]

5 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Many are, but I think we shouldn’t ignore the fact that Putin has widespread support in Russia.
I am so happy to see protesters on Russian streets against this war, and I know what risks they are taking coming out to protest, but they remain a minority of the population. Sadly the majority supports Putin.

 

Yes, some support Putin ardently. Others may misstate their affection in political polling because what incentive do they have to tell the truth? I think the pragmatic person may be circumspect about their true feelings when you know that people who openly oppose tend to disappear. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Got this reference. 🙂For those that don't, he is a character from The Dead Zone a Stephen King book and later tv series.

[Deleted by moderator, because otherwise I'd have to lock the thread and send you all to the politics social group.]

[DreamerGirl]

20 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Not to be picky and not super relevant to the thread but I feel like another emoji would be better for staying quiet than a mask one? Too many people already think of it as an imposition on the freedom of speech without reinforcing that idea.

This is not aimed at you particularly I’ve seen it used that way a few times and had the same thought.

I don't know how to approach this or even if this needed an explanation. But I believe in explaining however clumsy, than not. So here goes.

I get what you say.  For my part, an emoji I use is an extension of how I feel at that moment. So for instance, I use an eyeroll a lot when I want to convey without words what I want to say. I use something that is close to who I am in real life currently.

In this case, I used it as an emoji representation of wanting to protect myself from my own actions of posting something that violating a bunch of rules and getting banned. In the current stage of every day life where I am in, the mask over a face for protection is more a representation of me than this 🤐. I don't think I own something with a zip other than a purse. 

I hope that made sense, did not want to upset anyone or make any statements. 

[Roadrunner]

6 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes, some support Putin ardently. Others may misstate their affection in political polling because what incentive do they have to tell the truth? I think the pragmatic person may be circumspect about their true feelings when you know that people who openly oppose tend to disappear. 

We were never a timid bunch even during USSR.

 

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

I don't know how to approach this or even if this needed an explanation. But I believe in explaining however clumsy, than not. So here goes.

I get what you say.  For my part, an emoji I use is an extension of how I feel at that moment. So for instance, I use an eyeroll a lot when I want to convey without words what I want to say. I use something that is close to who I am in real life currently.

In this case, I used it as an emoji representation of wanting to protect myself from my own actions of posting something that violating a bunch of rules and getting banned. In the current stage of every day life where I am in, the mask over a face for protection is more a representation of me than this 🤐. I don't think I own something with a zip other than a purse. 

I hope that made sense, did not want to upset anyone or make any statements. 

Yeah it did. I was perceiving it is a gag rather than a protection if that makes sense.

[TravelingChris]

51 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes, so I am surprised Canadians aren't a little bit more concerned about increased Russian aggression. I am not sure why you felt the need to laugh at me. I will bow out of the discussion. I have family in the military, one of whom is someone who may get sent into this conflict - Poland. I don't need people laughing at me.

I know that Finland is.  They are considering joining NATO.  

[TravelingChris]

35 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Many are, but I think we shouldn’t ignore the fact that Putin has widespread support in Russia.
I am so happy to see protesters on Russian streets against this war, and I know what risks they are taking coming out to protest, but they remain a minority of the population. Sadly the majority supports Putin.

I know less about China, but I don’t see any real movement here among the emigrés against Chinese authoritarianism. When people from USSR emigrated to US, many became the most outspoken critics of the Soviet regime. Remember Rostropovich playing his cello as Berlin Wall was being dismantled? 

Well I am a fan of a Chinese mystery writer who is in the US.  He speaks out and writes mysteries they do not like either, I bet.  Plus there is a dance group that travels the US (and maybe some other countries too) that is made up of  at least some Falun Gong members and they make known that they are persecuted in China.

[goldberry]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re how this conflict lands in the US versus Canada

The Cold War gave us the construct of "proxy war," where the simmering conflict between the international Big Boys got played out in smaller civil war playgrounds.

Something of the reverse of that dynamic is playing out now.  There is a real sense in which what is right now writ LARGE in deadly international consequences is being received here as a sort of projected amplification of our domestic fractures.

Since 2014, Putin's ambitions over and misinformation about Ukraine, and his interference in US democratic processes in pursuit of those ambitions, have by slow degrees brought the US to the point where the single largest-audience media figure * in our country, has been steadily training ~40% of the country to trust a self-declared Dictator for Life over the US president, intelligence community, and military leadership:

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Tucker%3A How will this conflict affect you%3F&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.foxnews.com%2Fv%2F6298540966001

 

 

* At this moment still not a "political figure."

But he will be, in 2024.

https://twitter.com/phyllispollack/status/1496492965442863107?s=20&t=eXWZ7FHhNFmHeFkkf11HeA

 

It's being reported that some of those clips from Tucker, etc. are being played on Russian television.  I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it's disgusting.

Apparently it is true.

To further bolster Putin, Russian state media is sharing supportive commentary from his fans on the American right. Julia Davis, a columnist at The Daily Beast and a Russian media analyst, tweeted several clips on Tuesday and Wednesday of Carlson and Pompeo now making the rounds on Russia state media — RT published Carlson's latest defense of Putin with Russian subtitles, as well as an article titled, "Tucker Carlson wonders why U.S. elites hate Putin," while Channel One aired an interview with Pompeo where he praised Putin as "very shrewd" and "very capable," adding, "I have enormous respect for him."

Edited February 24, 2022 by goldberry

[Corbster98]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

It should be noted that the US has been tense with Russia since violating US air space in Alaska, 2007 if memory serves. Since then Russia has built a military base only 300 miles from Alaska, and has shown renewed aggression in the Arctic as well as beefed up all of their military installations in the Arctic. In response, the US has reinforced Fort Greely, and Eilson AFB, plus the other one whose name I can never remember. The Berring Strait at its narrowest is only 55 miles wide. The Arctic needs protection, and is under dire threat from climate change, something Putin gives exactly a rat's a$$ about.

Most of the world tends to think of the US as the 48 states of the mainland. It is easy to forget that we have a state which sits so close to Russia.

Fort Wainwright is near Eielson AFB. AndJBER (Jointbase  Elmendorf-Richardson) is in Anchorage. 

[Ting Tang]

19 minutes ago, goldberry said:

It's being reported that some of those clips from Tucker, etc. are being played on Russian television.  I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it's disgusting.

Apparently it is true.

To further bolster Putin, Russian state media is sharing supportive commentary from his fans on the American right. Julia Davis, a columnist at The Daily Beast and a Russian media analyst, tweeted several clips on Tuesday and Wednesday of Carlson and Pompeo now making the rounds on Russia state media — RT published Carlson's latest defense of Putin with Russian subtitles, as well as an article titled, "Tucker Carlson wonders why U.S. elites hate Putin," while Channel One aired an interview with Pompeo where he praised Putin as "very shrewd" and "very capable," adding, "I have enormous respect for him."

I listened to Pompeo today. He was definitely not a fanboy today. FTR I was a political science major, so I watch ALL major news networks to get a feel for slant on situations. But… I wouldn’t put it past Putin to take verbiage from a different context and blare it as propaganda. Not sure what Tucker is getting at. Americans should hate dictatorship. 

[Roadrunner]

I think they are starting the assault of the capital. 

[Ting Tang]

5 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think they are starting the assault of the capital. This is just so sad. I hate watching this unfold. Nobody is joining them to help as in being there. I know all the details of the why, but basically from a humanitarian perspective this sucks. I’m not blaming Trump or Biden. This is the world. It’s just so sad. 

[Roadrunner]

They didn’t even put Putin on the sanctions list. 🙄

Bravo

[prairiewindmomma]

So, communications are down. Airfields are down. Trains have stopped running. Refugees are clogging roads. 
 

Sounds pretty textbook for day 1 of an invasion. 😞 

[Ting Tang]

10 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

They didn’t even put Putin on the sanctions list. 🙄

Bravo

Yeah what the hell. But I think he has his ways around the discomfort of sanctions anyway. Biden said he won’t stop with Ukraine. I do not disagree. 

[Ting Tang]

11 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

So, communications are down. Airfields are down. Trains have stopped running. Refugees are clogging roads. 
 

Sounds pretty textbook for day 1 of an invasion. 😞 

It will be a big refugee crisis. You’d think in 2022 humans would’ve evolved beyond this. 

[Ting Tang]

Are we (world) all just afraid? Is Ukraine just not that important for that reason? 😔

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Ting Tang said:

Are we (world) all just afraid? Is Ukraine just not that important for that reason? 😔

Self interested, is my vote.

As long as we have things comfortable in our own little world, the rest of it is a side show. Until it shows up in our back yard.

And it will. History repeats itself. If we look back to the 1930s, the attitude is the same.

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Yeah what the hell. But I think he has his ways around the discomfort of sanctions anyway. Biden said he won’t stop with Ukraine. I do not disagree. 

The vast majority of the money isn’t held in his name and the Europeans aren’t on board.

[Ting Tang]

6 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Self interested, is my vote.

As long as we have things comfortable in our own little world, the rest of it is a side show. Until it shows up in our back yard.

And it will. History repeats itself. If we look back to the 1930s, the attitude is the same.

We are so blessed for right now. 😞

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The vast majority of the money isn’t held in his name and the Europeans aren’t on board.

Yep. We are respecting our allies and agreements. It just feels morally wrong. Always about energy. I dunno. But if he keeps going… 

[Sneezyone]

13 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Yep. We are respecting our allies and agreements. It just feels morally wrong. Always about energy. I dunno. But if he keeps going… 

I think it’s, generally, good to have left something in reserve. If we throw the whole mess out now, there’s nothing left.
 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Ting Tang]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I think it’s, generally, good to have led something in reserve. If we throw the whole mess out now, there’s nothing left.
 

Yes! I try to tell myself these people are smarter than I am. It’s just hard to watch. 😔

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Ting Tang said:

Yes! I try to tell myself these people are smarter than I am. It’s just hard to watch. 😔

They might be smarter but given 2008 and 2014 experiences, they don’t seem to care. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Ting Tang said:

Yes! I try to tell myself these people are smarter than I am. It’s just hard to watch. 😔

Had a good convo with bestie tonight (who knows a helluva lot more than me; I don't probe). Bestie says the convos here are deeper and more informed than many of those had by people who should know better. That's frightening.

 

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

They might be smarter but given 2008 and 2014 experiences, they don’t seem to care. 

Are you serious right now? You'd have preferred to be in a proxy war 8-12 years ago with all the attendant racist baggage that would engender when we hadn't wrapped the last dubiously-entered, stupid war? STAHP. 

[Slache]

46 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

They didn’t even put Putin on the sanctions list. 🙄

Bravo

What do you mean?

[SoCal_Bear]

This was the prayer request shared by my new friend:

2/21:
 

Hello everyone!

Some of you we have already told, but Russian troops have already entered Ukraine unofficially. There has not been a declaration of war on Ukraine, but our connections in Ukraine say that the troops started crossing the border within hours of Putin recognizing the sovereignty of the 2 regions in Ukraine, the DPR and LPR.

Some of our family never left Kyiv, which is one of the intended targets, analysts say.

Our parents, and one brother and my husband’s sister with her kids and husband are either in Lviv, western Ukraine, or in Poland as of yesterday.

We are working out a way to transfer them funds so they could continue to be away from Kyiv.

Please pray for them, for their safety, and for all the people in Ukraine.

Pray for peace. Pray for resolution of conflict without more loss of life.

Pray for a spirit of reason among the leaders in Europe and Russia.

Many people doubted us when we left Ukraine, but we know it was the right decision for our family.

I want to thank all of you for the donations and prayers for our family. We are truly blessed by this community, and look forward to deepening our friendships.

God bless you all!

J & O (names removed for privacy)

Updated 2/23:

Good evening everyone.

Bombings are happening all over Ukraine. Airports are on fire, people are panicking and the roads are jammed everywhere including Kyiv where we came from.

Please be in constant prayer for our family, friends, people we ministered to there and the people in general.

The reports from our friends are frightening, and it's too late for most of them to get out.
Updated just now:

An update about our family: dad and brothers are now stuck in the country and will potentially be forced drafted into the military. They have no training and have never served before, so we pray they won’t have to, because they don’t want to fight. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I think she is referring to the Swift banking network?